USA TODAY's 75 Greatest Players of All Time

[L.Kizzle]

USA TODAY has put out their 75 greatest NBA Players ahead of the NBA's official announcement. This is 75-51.

75. Alex English
74. Dave DeBusschere
73. Nate Tiny Archibald
72. Bernard King
71. Manu Ginobili
69. (Tie) Vince Carter; Robert Parish
68. Tony Parker
67. Dwight Howard
66. Tracy McGrady
65. Paul Arizin
64. Dave Cowens
62. (Tie) Carmelo Anthony; Earl Monroe
61. Sam Jones
60. Bob McAdoo
59. Paul Pierce
58. Dolph Schayes
57. Anthony Davis
56. Pete Maravich
55. Dennis Rodman
54. Wes Unseld
53. Bill Walton
52. Willis Reed
51. James Worthy

[3ba11]

So Worthy > Rodman due to rings but McGrady isn't

Got it

Fans/media are fools

Lemme guess - Pippen is top 50 in 2021 despite barely being top 50 in 97' and dozens of guys passing him since

[Kobe_Bryant]

look on the bright side ISH...maybe Pau gasol is in the top 50

[Stephonit]

Tony Parker ahead of Manu Ginobili. Interesting.

Main supporting players of the Duncan Spurs, Bird Celtics, Showtime Lakers, 70s Knicks, and Jordan Bulls represented—but Klay and Draymond aren't.

[L.Kizzle]

Tony Parker ahead of Manu Ginobili. Interesting.

Main supporting players of the Duncan Spurs, Bird Celtics, Showtime Lakers, 70s Knicks, and Jordan Bulls represented—but Klay and Draymond aren't.
Interesting selections so far. They have Reggie Miller inside the top 50 or outside the top 75 ... hmm.

[rmt]

Tony Parker ahead of Manu Ginobili. Interesting.

Main supporting players of the Duncan Spurs, Bird Celtics, Showtime Lakers, 70s Knicks, and Jordan Bulls represented—but Klay and Draymond aren't.

Tony Parker is a more ACCOMPLISHED player than Manu. Now if you want to argue BETTER for Manu - especially for a 5 - 10 minute stretch or < 28 minutes, that's a better argument.

[ShawkFactory]

So Worthy > Rodman due to rings but McGrady isn't

Got it

Fans/media are fools

Lemme guess - Pippen is top 50 in 2021 despite barely being top 50 in 97' and dozens of guys passing him since

Did they say that? You need to be institutionalized

[Phoenix]

So Worthy > Rodman due to rings but McGrady isn't



Rodman has more rings though.

[L.Kizzle]

Tony Parker ahead of Manu Ginobili. Interesting.

Main supporting players of the Duncan Spurs, Bird Celtics, Showtime Lakers, 70s Knicks, and Jordan Bulls represented—but Klay and Draymond aren't.
Looks like current help got clipped. No Kyrie looks like as well.

[SaintzFury13]

So Worthy > Rodman due to rings but McGrady isn't

Got it

Fans/media are fools

Rodman has more rings, you fukking idiot.

[MadDog]

When is the full list out? :confusedshrug:

[Jasper]

pistol pete is in my top 35

[L.Kizzle]

pistol pete is in my top 35
Top 35 what? Most influential players sure.
McGrady get knocked down for his lack of playoffs success. Well, Pete had less success than T-Mac.

In 9 seasons he made the playoffs three times and got no further than opening round. Wasn't until he joint Boston in his last season he made round 2.

[Im Still Ballin]

Top 35 what? Most influential players sure.
McGrady get knocked down for his lack of playoffs success. Well, Pete had less success than T-Mac.

In 9 seasons he made the playoffs three times and got no further than opening round. Wasn't until he joint Boston in his last season he made round 2.

You have to factor in the white privilege coefficient.

[1987_Lakers]

Always thought Maravich was overrated.

[the mesiah]

Good to see George Gervin in top 50 still

[L.Kizzle]

Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnett

[bizil]

Glad to see Nique made the USA Today list! Hopefully the NBA's official list includes him as well.

[L.Kizzle]

Reggie Miller over Drexler, come on. They literally played in the same era and Clyde was better every season except for maybe his last in the league.

They competed against each other for 11 seaaons
88 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 2 team
89 - Clyde All Star
90 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 3 team and Finals | Reggie All Star
91 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 2 team
92 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 1 team and Finals
93 - Clyde All Star
94 - Clyde All Star
95 - Clyde All NBA 3 team and Champion | Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team
96 - Clyde All Star
97 - Clyde All Star and NBA at 50 Selection | Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team
98 - Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team

[outofstomach]

Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnettharden and westbrook are not a ****ing tie :lol

[outofstomach]

it’s honestly sad how underrated harden is

[Phoenix]

Scottie is in the top 25 then. 3ball on suicide watch. :lol

[Kobe_Bryant]

Always thought Maravich was overrated.

he wasn't overrated. he was underrated then and even more so now. he was shunned by most people in the nba for being flashy and it was considered disrespectful. it cost him the ability to play for a good team. nobody wanted him in the league. without maravich there is no magic or bird. their styles wouldn't have been accepted by fans and players without Pete maravich opening the league up to a more entertaining style of basketball. then Jordan never gets his shot either. and maybe the ABA never merges without maravich. who knows

hes as important to the development of the game as anyone

[Xiao Yao You]

No Dantley? :facepalm

[MadDog]

KG at 25. Stark difference there and what we see on forums\ESPN. KG's longevity was damn good, and his prime saw masterful 2 way play. I ranked Barkley over KG in the all-time project, and looks like this list does too. Wonder what their criteria was.

[TheCorporation]

So Worthy > Rodman due to rings but McGrady isn't

Got it

Fans/media are fools

Lemme guess - Pippen is top 50 in 2021 despite barely being top 50 in 97' and dozens of guys passing him since

Breathe. Kobe is still top 15 (for now).

[L.Kizzle]

No Dantley? :facepalm

Dantley is always listed around Alex English and Bernard King. They were each 75 and 72, respectively. So he was most likely 78.

[TheCorporation]

Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnett

Iverson way too high
Mikan way too low
Miller at 48 is a travesty

Overall not bad

[TheCorporation]

Kobe played with one top 75 player and won 5 rings. Yet haters think he's not top 2. Meanwhile LeFraud has played with 4 guys on this list (Wade, Westbrook, Allen, Davis).

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza/Artest OR Mo Williams and Big Z?

[HoopsNY]

USA TODAY has put out their 75 greatest NBA Players ahead of the NBA's official announcement. This is 75-51.

75. Alex English
74. Dave DeBusschere
73. Nate Tiny Archibald
72. Bernard King
71. Manu Ginobili
69. (Tie) Vince Carter; Robert Parish
68. Tony Parker
67. Dwight Howard
66. Tracy McGrady
65. Paul Arizin
64. Dave Cowens
62. (Tie) Carmelo Anthony; Earl Monroe
61. Sam Jones
60. Bob McAdoo
59. Paul Pierce
58. Dolph Schayes
57. Anthony Davis
56. Pete Maravich
55. Dennis Rodman
54. Wes Unseld
53. Bill Walton
52. Willis Reed
51. James Worthy

They put Carmelo ahead of TMac and Dwight Howard? Peak T-Mac and Dwight > Carmelo. I wouldn't put James Worthy ahead of AD either. That's absurd.

[HoopsNY]

Reggie Miller over Drexler, come on. They literally played in the same era and Clyde was better every season except for maybe his last in the league.

They competed against each other for 11 seaaons
88 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 2 team
89 - Clyde All Star
90 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 3 team and Finals | Reggie All Star
91 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 2 team
92 - Clyde All Star and All NBA 1 team and Finals
93 - Clyde All Star
94 - Clyde All Star
95 - Clyde All NBA 3 team and Champion | Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team
96 - Clyde All Star
97 - Clyde All Star and NBA at 50 Selection | Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team
98 - Reggie All Star and All NBA 3 team

I was about to respond to your previous post and then I saw you put this. I absolutely agree. It's absurd to put Reggie over Clyde.

[HoopsNY]

KG at 25. Stark difference there and what we see on forums\ESPN. KG's longevity was damn good, and his prime saw masterful 2 way play. I ranked Barkley over KG in the all-time project, and looks like this list does too. Wonder what their criteria was.

Yea, cause KG is overrated. Delete his superteam ring and tenure and he gets downgraded significantly.

[HoopsNY]

Scottie is in the top 25 then. 3ball on suicide watch. :lol

Pippen and GP were similar. 3ball has a point in how GP is ranked as opposed to Pippen. This all-time ranking at #46 just proves it.

[Phoenix]

Pippen and GP were similar. 3ball has a point in how GP is ranked as opposed to Pippen. This all-time ranking at #46 just proves it.

I found GP being ranked that far behind Kidd and Nash interesting.

[ShawkFactory]

Pippen being top 25 is kind of insane. There's no way he was better than Garnett, Stockton, Wade, Ewing. Of active guys Kawhi, CP3, and Giannis should be above him as well.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dantley is always listed around Alex English and Bernard King. They were each 75 and 72, respectively. So he was most likely 78.

and he should be ahead of English, Carmelo, King and Wilkens if advanced numbers mean anything to ya

[Phoenix]

What's the boards thoughts on Isiah being top 25 nowadays? Should he be above someone like D.Wade?

[L.Kizzle]

and he should be ahead of English, Carmelo, King and Wilkens if advanced numbers mean anything to ya
Wilkens and English were better for a longer period and Kkng peaked higher than Dantley.

[L.Kizzle]

What's the boards thoughts on Isiah being top 25 nowadays? Should he be above someone like D.Wade?
One won championships with Shaq and LeBron. The other won with Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre.

[ShawkFactory]

One won championships with Shaq and LeBron. The other won with Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre.

At the same time. With a plethora of other excellent players who knew their role.

Rodman? Microwave? And how can anyone actually talk about the Bad Boys without mentioning Laimbeer and Mahorn?

Your point is not a good one.

[L.Kizzle]

At the same time. With a plethora of other excellent players who knew their role.

Rodman? Microwave? And how can anyone actually talk about the Bad Boys without mentioning Laimbeer and Mahorn?

Your point is not a good one.
My point is Wade won with two top 10 players all time and Thomas had none.

[SouBeachTalents]

The players included are generally good, but some of the rankings are way out of whack.

Dwight, McGrady, Drexler, Harden, CP3 & KG are all at minimum 7-10 spots too low, and Iverson is way too high.

[SouBeachTalents]

At the same time. With a plethora of other excellent players who knew their role.

Rodman? Microwave? And how can anyone actually talk about the Bad Boys without mentioning Laimbeer and Mahorn?

Your point is not a good one.
For real, Isiah's supporting cast was undoubtedly better than Wade's in '06. Shaq was still good but he was no more than a top 10 player in the league that season, so his all time ranking is irrelevant to his actual performance.

Wade was BITW caliber when he won and Isiah was not even close to that. So agreed, that was an extremely lazy, uninformed argument.

[Phoenix]

One won championships with Shaq and LeBron. The other won with Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre.

So basically nobody at this stage in the vote should be getting in if they havent won a chip. Didnt you vote for Mailman?

But in any case, who is the better player removing chips? Who has the better individual accolades when you remove the players they played with which factors into team success?

[Phoenix]

For real, Isiah's supporting cast was undoubtedly better than Wade's in '06. Shaq was still good but he was no more than a top 10 player in the league that season, so his all time ranking is irrelevant to his actual performance.

Wade was BITW caliber when he won and Isiah was not even close to that. So agreed, that was an extremely lazy, uninformed argument.

Wade when healthy between 2006 and 2010 was in the conversation with Lebron and Kobe ( and 2011 Wade was better than Kobe). Isiah was never on *that* kind of level or else people would have been arguing between him, Jordan and Magic in 1990 or some shit.

[L.Kizzle]

Was basically comparing the level of talent Wade and Isiah played with. Isiah had deeper teams no doubt, but Wade had better talent up top.
All I said. I never even said who "I" would have higher on a list.
Both can be argued over one another.

[NBAGOAT]

Was basically comparing the level of talent Wade and Isiah played with. Isiah had deeper teams no doubt, but Wade had better talent up top.
All I said. I never even said who "I" would have higher on a list.
Both can be argued over one another.

The argument for isiah over wade is a weak one

[Stephonit]

Glad to see Nique made the USA Today list! Hopefully the NBA's official list includes him as well.

KBlaze posted the first GM survey in the thread about the latest one and it had the question: Who is the most overrated player? The one GMs thought the most overrated at the time was Dominique Wilkins.

I'd want to have a much more detailed look at the reasons why before accepting the current thinking. Overruling contemporary thought of the time needs stronger than usual evidence in my opinion. I don't find it a compelling argument that he simply scored more.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Another list with kawhi not nearly high enough. Throw it in the f'n garbage. Some video game dork made this

[SouBeachTalents]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I honestly don't see the argument for Isiah over Wade. Worse peak play, production, accolades, and it's not even like he has a longevity advantage, he made his last all-star game at 31.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnett


hold this L realgm

:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

hold this L realgm

:lol
We'll see if you have this same energy when LeBron gets ranked several spots ahead of Kobe :lol

[L.Kizzle]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I honestly don't see the argument for Isiah over Wade. Worse peak play, production, accolades, and it's not even like he has a longevity advantage, he made his last all-star game at 31.
I'm not disagreeing with you those are all facts, but don't we have to consider him leading his teams over Magic Lakers, Bird Celtics and Jordan Bulls? He lead his teams over three top 10 players yess all times at their peaks or close to them.
That counts for something right?

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not disagreeing with you those are all facts, but don't we have to consider him leading his teams over Magic Lakers, Bird Celtics and Jordan Bulls? He lead his teams over three top 10 players yess all times at their peaks or close to them.
That counts for something right?
Personally, I'm not nearly as impressed with this argument as others seem to be. First of all, the one time he beat Magic he missed most of the Finals, so that honestly shouldn't even count. And it'd be one thing if he was matching or exceeding their level of play, but Jordan outplayed Isiah by a pretty substantial margin every time they went h2h, which should tell you he was winning those series due to having the superior team more than anything else.

[L.Kizzle]

Personally, I'm not nearly as impressed with this argument as others seem to be. First of all, the one time he beat Magic he missed most of the Finals, so that honestly shouldn't even count. And it'd be one thing if he was matching or exceeding their level of play, but Jordan outplayed Isiah by a pretty substantial margin every time they went h2h, which should tell you he was winning those series due to having the superior team more than anything else.
Jordan outplayed everyone head to head.
Also you can say the same for injured Isiah in 88 and the fluke foul call but I get it.

[Phoenix]

Was basically comparing the level of talent Wade and Isiah played with. Isiah had deeper teams no doubt, but Wade had better talent up top.
All I said. I never even said who "I" would have higher on a list.
Both can be argued over one another.

No but the point you made earlier suggests that Isiah won championships with lesser talent so therefore should be considered higher. I mean, I don't know what else one would infer from your initial comment and/or whether or not you had a side.

All that said, as an individual player Wade was better than Isiah ever was by 2006, and at least as good by 2005. Even as far as talent, for that 2006 chip while he had Shaq as you say and he was still effective, he was far from Lakers peak Shaq and Wade clearly was the main driving force behind that chip. Lebron underperforming in the finals likely prevented a 2nd FMVP and 4th ring. Yes, he was a sidekick for those 2012 and 2013 chips but just viewing them as players, Wade imo was on a different tier peak for peak, prime for prime.

[Phoenix]

Another list with kawhi not nearly high enough. Throw it in the f'n garbage. Some video game dork made this

After what 7'1 Windhorst did to him, Kawhit's lucky to be inside the top 50 TBH.

[Phoenix]

Jordan outplayed everyone head to head.
Also you can say the same for injured Isiah in 88 and the fluke foul call but I get it.

People give Jordan shit for not beating the Lakers/Celtics/Pistons until they were quote on quote 'old', but don't seem to use the same argument that the Celtics and Lakers were on the back nine when Detroit won, and the Bulls were relative pups.

[3ba11]

What puts Pippen over Giannis or Kawhi?

What puts Pippen over Dirk?

Can someone answer this?... Is it the 6 "horry" rings that Pippen has?... Is that how he's ranked over guys that played far better than he ever did?

When did Pippen play at a top 75 level?... Top 75 is reserved for the best performances ever like 11' Dirk or 21' Giannis, so how does Pippen belong?

When did he ever play at top 75 level?... he literally never did... 22/5 with 55 wins and 2nd Round loss isn't top 75 and neither is 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals..

Furthermore, it's literally impossible that he's top 75 because he was barely top 50 in 1997, and tons of guys have passed him since... The reason his ranking increased despite tons of guys passing him is because new fans/media never saw him play and can only do on-paper evaluations of Pippen - these on-paper evaluations rank his 6 rings over Giannis or Dirk's 1 ring... So Pippen erroneously gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - it would be like Klay getting ranked over Harden due to rings - this would be unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets - ONLY pippen gets this treatment, so he's the most overrated player in history.

[SouBeachTalents]

What puts Pippen over Giannis or Kawhi?

What puts Pippen over Dirk?

Can someone answer this?... Is it the 6 "horry" rings that Pippen has?... Is that how he's ranked over guys that played far better than he ever did?

When did Pippen play at a top 75 level?... Top 75 is reserved for the best performances ever like 11' Dirk or 21' Giannis, so how does Pippen belong?

When did he ever play at top 75 level?... he literally never did... 22/5 with 55 wins and 2nd Round loss isn't top 75 and neither is 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals..

It's literally impossible that he's top 75 because he was barely top 50 in 1997, and tons of guys have passed him since... The reason his ranking increased despite tons of guys passing him is because new fans/media never saw him play and can only do on-paper evaluations of Pippen - these on-paper evaluations rank his 6 rings over Giannis or Dirk's 1 ring... So Pippen erroneously gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - it would be like Klay getting ranked over Harden due to rings - this would be unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets - ONLY pippen gets this treatment, so he's the most overrated player in history.
Sounds like some fakkit on here who posts only his scoring & efficiency numbers while never once discussing his defense or any other aspects of his game.

[8Ball]

Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnett



So that means Scottie Pippen is ranked higher than Wade all time which I have been saying all along.


I am never wrong.


Jordan played with someone better than Wade all time for the entire prime of that player.

[Phoenix]

What puts Pippen over Dirk?



We haven't seen the top 25 yet so we have no clue where Dirk is ranked, but I can guarantee you it's higher than Pippen.

[Kobe_Bryant]

We'll see if you have this same energy when LeBron gets ranked several spots ahead of Kobe :lol

why wouldn't he be ranked ahead of me. he has a better career on paper.

players and legends don't respect it though and thats why their lists have me higher. but for a media ranking I have no doubt I will be around 8 or 9th and lebron will be top 2 or 3

without context lebron has a great resume. but when factoring steroids and ring chasing/collusions you can't really respect anything but his passing ability

hes like lonzo ball in a bigger frame with more opportunities

[L.Kizzle]

People give Jordan shit for not beating the Lakers/Celtics/Pistons until they were quote on quote 'old', but don't seem to use the same argument that the Celtics and Lakers were on the back nine when Detroit won, and the Bulls were relative pups.
That is true but like you also said Isiah wasn't Bird, Magic or Jordan. And the Pistons #2 wasn't a Pippen, Kareem (crazy saying their number wasn't a Kareem. Their number one wasn't either, lol) or McHale.
And saying Isiahs teams were deep. How Deep were they. They didn't have an All-Star or All-NBA teamer their first 2 Finals appearances in 88 and 89. Joe Dumars made his first each in 1990.

[Phoenix]

That is true but like you also said Isiah wasn't Bird, Magic or Jordan. And the Pistons #2 wasn't a Pippen, Kareem (crazy saying their number wasn't a Kareem. Their number one wasn't either, lol) or McHale.
And saying Isiahs teams were deep. How Deep were they. They didn't have an All-Star or All-NBA teamer their first 2 Finals appearances in 88 and 89. Joe Dumars made his first each in 1990.

I look at them in a similar light to the 2004 Pistons. No MVP level superstar but a bunch of really good players ( Isiah was great but not MVP great) and wore you down defensively ( or just beat the shit out of you, as the Bad Boys did).

[3ba11]

only posts his scoring & efficiency numbers while never once discussing his defense or any other aspects of his game.





Scoring is what determines if a player is 2nd option

Without adequate scoring, a player is just a defensive role player, so Jordan won 5 rings with a defensive role player.. The stats prove that Pippen was a defensive role player for 90% of his playoff career.

Ultimately, Pippen's low PPG for a winning sidekick and worst-ever efficiency makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won

[bizil]

That is true but like you also said Isiah wasn't Bird, Magic or Jordan. And the Pistons #2 wasn't a Pippen, Kareem (crazy saying their number wasn't a Kareem. Their number one wasn't either, lol) or McHale.
And saying Isiahs teams were deep. How Deep were they. They didn't have an All-Star or All-NBA teamer their first 2 Finals appearances in 88 and 89. Joe Dumars made his first each in 1990.

I agree! When I look at the 80's Celtics, Showtime Lakers, 2010's Warriors, etc. ALL those teams had two legit superstar players. From there they had a minimum of two additional All Star level players. Isiah was the ONLY SUPERSTAR on those Piston teams that won rings. Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, and Laimbeer weren't superstar level players. They were All Star level guys for sure though. Their D could keep games close. Then u had a true alpha dog in Isiah who could takeover games. And was surrounded by some very good scoring firepower. But to say they were some type of all time deep team of talent isn't true.

[3ba11]

Scoring is what determines if a player is 2nd option

Without adequate scoring, a player is just a defensive role player, so Jordan won 5 rings with a defensive role player.. The stats prove that Pippen was a defensive role player for 90% of his playoff career.

Ultimately, Pippen's low PPG for a winning sidekick and worst-ever efficiency makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won


And when the Bulls needed more than 7 assists, Jordan was the only option - he was the Bulls' only elite playmaker that could average elite assist levels (8-11), while Pippen was a mid-tier playmaker that averaged 4-7 apg

[bizil]

When the actual NBA list comes out, they AREN'T gonna rank the players 1-75 as we all know! LMAO When it comes to who would rate higher when it comes to Isiah vs. D Wade, I don't see what the big uproar is if Zeke is rated higher. Both are around the same area (top 3-4 ) GOAT wise for their respective positions.

Both have won Finals MVP. Zeke won two rings while Wade won two. Both got hobbled by injury relatively early in comparison to a lot of the great players. Isiah retired at 32. Wade was already out his prime at that age. For me, could go either way in terms of who has the edge GOAT wise. Peak-prime wise, Wade was the superior player. But they were two different players and only so much Zeke can do at 6'1.

[bizil]

Yep I see Pip once again is gonna get overrated! LMAO!! Let's play this game... Let's say Pip NEVER WON ANY RINGS, where in the hell would he rank??? He CERTAINLY wouldn't be top 50 level. Because if u gave Barkley, Malone, Nique, or Gervin six rings, they are HANDS DOWN top 2 GOAT at their respective positions at some point in time.

Pip NEVER was seen on that level at ANY POINT! With six rings, he NEVER eclipsed Bird, Doc, Baylor, or Barry. EVEN THOUGH he has AT LEAST double the rings of all them. Later, Bron and KD passed him by on the GOAT charts too. Once again, Pip has more rings than them too as of now. Hondo has more rings than Pip. BUT peak-prime wise, Hondo was the superior player anyway. JUS SAYIN, I'm cool if Pip is more of a top 30-40 pick. Because of his overall resume. HOWEVER, nothing higher than that.

[Phoenix]

When the actual NBA list comes out, they AREN'T gonna rank the players 1-75 as we all know! LMAO When it comes to who would rate higher when it comes to Isiah vs. D Wade, I don't see what the big uproar is if Zeke is rated higher. Both are around the same area (top 3-4 ) GOAT wise for their respective positions.

Both have won Finals MVP. Zeke won two rings while Wade won two. Both got hobbled by injury relatively early in comparison to a lot of the great players. Isiah retired at 32. Wade was already out his prime at that age. For me, could go either way in terms of who has the edge GOAT wise. Peak-prime wise, Wade was the superior player. But they were two different players and only so much Zeke can do at 6'1.

Minor correction: Wade won 3( 06,12,13)

[bizil]

Minor correction: Wade won 3( 06,12,13)

Good catch! Of course D Wade won 3! LOL Guess I was typing too fast.

[Dagoods]

30. GIANNIS, has done enough (2x MVP, 1 DPOY, 1 CHIP, 1 FMVP) to merit a place within the TOP 25.

[TheCorporation]

Scoring is what determines if a player is 2nd option

Without adequate scoring, a player is just a defensive role player, so Jordan won 5 rings with a defensive role player.. The stats prove that Pippen was a defensive role player for 90% of his playoff career.

Ultimately, Pippen's low PPG for a winning sidekick and worst-ever efficiency makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won

Gottem spinning when he pumps up the font to size 5 :lol What a cuck

[TheCorporation]

30. GIANNIS, has done enough (2x MVP, 1 DPOY, 1 CHIP, 1 FMVP) to merit a place within the TOP 25.

His career is still developing and there is no doubt he will get to top 25 in time but he's not there right now.

[L.Kizzle]

His career is still developing and there is no doubt he will get to top 25 in time but he's not there right now.
Why not. He's accomplished more than most the are considered top 25. Charles Barkley has 1 MVP and zero rings. Giannis has 2 MVPs, a ring, a Finals MVP and a DPOY ... already.

[Phoenix]

His career is still developing and there is no doubt he will get to top 25 in time but he's not there right now.

In fairness, he's already done more than someone like David Robinson in terms of individual accolades. Hard to see him in a historical context because he's in the moment, but you gotta look at what he's already done compared to some others we would typically rank in the top 25 now.

[SouBeachTalents]

Imo Giannis' ring was way too fluky to give him top 25 status right now. Had he won it under more normal circumstances he'd have a more valid argument.

[L.Kizzle]

Imo Giannis' ring was way too fluky to give him top 25 status right now. Had he won it under more normal circumstances he'd have a more valid argument.
A fluke ring. Everyone thought he snapped his knee in half a week earlier.

[SouBeachTalents]

A fluke ring. Every thought he snapped his knee in half a week earlier.
Well, it just happened 2-3 months ago, so not gonna run down the myriad of reasons why it was a fluke. If you don't agree, so be it, agree to disagree.

[L.Kizzle]

Well, it just happened 2-3 months ago, so not gonna run down the myriad of reasons why it was a fluke. If you don't agree, so be it, agree to disagree.
All I'm saying is the majority of people didn't even think he was gonna return to the playoffs after the knee injury

[kawhileonard2]

Scottie is in the top 25 then. 3ball on suicide watch. :lol

Should be ranked around whereever Drexler is and Drexler is too low.

Kawhi is rated wayy too low. Should be at least 25 spots higher.

[TheCorporation]

Why not. He's accomplished more than most the are considered top 25. Charles Barkley has 1 MVP and zero rings. Giannis has 2 MVPs, a ring, a Finals MVP and a DPOY ... already.

Longevity matters too, no? Otherwise Karl Malone isn't even top 50 :lol

2 Finals
Zero Rings
Yikes

MVPs are his saving grace

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi is rated wayy too low. Should be at least 25 spots higher.
Shut the fck up

[3ba11]

Shut the fck up


Name a single time that Pippen had a top 75 performance.... GO

how can a guy be top 75 when he never even played top 200?

[000]

Imagien pippen gets left out after all this talk about him lol

[Phoenix]

Should be ranked around whereever Drexler is and Drexler is too low.

Kawhi is rated wayy too low. Should be at least 25 spots higher.

25 spots higher would take Kawhi from 34th to 9th. No bud, Kawhit having one great run that ended in a chip against an injured Warriors squad doesn't leapfrog him into top 25, let alone top 10. His career stats and totals are going to be putrid compared to anyone in this range.

[RogueBorg]

Longevity matters too, no? Otherwise Karl Malone isn't even top 50 :lol

2 Finals
Zero Rings
Yikes

MVPs are his saving grace

Second all-time leading scorer amounts to nothing?

[jayfan]

Glad to see they haven't overrated Chris Paul like this board does.


.

[L.Kizzle]

Here is the top 25


25. John Havlicek
24. Isiah Thomas
23. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
21. Charles Barkley
20. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Elgin Baylor
18. Moses Malone
17. Karl Malone
16. Julius Erving
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
10. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
6. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan

[Phoenix]

Glad to see they haven't overrated Chris Paul like this board does.


.

I don't know why he should be ranked under Nash though, because he had a higher peak and better for longer, unless they're using the MVP awards as a differential maker....and I feel like he warrants being over Kidd as well at this point.

[L.Kizzle]

Here is the top 25


25. John Havlicek
24. Isiah Thomas
23. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
21. Charles Barkley
20. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Elgin Baylor
18. Moses Malone
17. Karl Malone
16. Julius Erving
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
10. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
6. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan
Glad to see Elgin in a reasonable spot he should be at.

[HoopsNY]

One won championships with Shaq and LeBron. The other won with Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre.

Not really fair. The '89 team is arguably one of the greatest teams of all-time. They would have gone undefeated if they didn't run into MJ. Not to mention, they had more than just Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre (who btw was a legit 25+ PPG threat), but they also had Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Mahorn, and Laimbeer. It was a pretty solid team top to bottom.

In addition, Wade may have won with Shaq, but 2005-06 Shaq wasn't peak or prime Shaq.

[L.Kizzle]

Not really fair. The '89 team is arguably one of the greatest teams of all-time. They would have gone undefeated if they didn't run into MJ. Not to mention, they had more than just Joe Dumars and Mark Aguirre (who btw was a legit 25+ PPG threat), but they also had Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Mahorn, and Laimbeer. It was a pretty solid team top to bottom.

In addition, Wade may have won with Shaq, but 2005-06 Shaq wasn't peak or prime Shaq.
I NEVER said that wasn't a good team. But they honestly don't have any other All-Star players that season save Thomas.
Hell, Thomas wasn't even on any of the All NBA teams in 89.
Rodman was All defensive that season tho.
We're the Pistons being blackballed? A 63 win team is only good enough for 1 All Star and no All NBA players

And Shaq was All NBA 1st team that season, just saying. He wasn't Laker Shaq but still a problem.

[Manny98]

Pippen ahead of guys like Wade, Robinson and KG is an absolute f*cking joke

[Phoenix]

I NEVER said that wasn't a good team. But they honestly don't have any other All-Star players that season save Thomas.
Hell, Thomas wasn't even on any of the All NBA teams in 89.
Rodman was All defensive that season tho.
We're the Pistons being blackballed? A 63 win team is only good enough for 1 All Star and no All NBA players

And Shaq was All NBA 1st team that season, just saying. He wasn't Laker Shaq but still a problem.

Isiah never making an All-NBA team after 87 might have had something to do with this:

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/dennis-rodman-and-isiah-thomas-on-larry-bird-if-he-was-black-hed-be-just-another-good-guy/

To go from being either first or second time for 5 straight years....to not at all, even after adding a third team from 88 onwards? They stuck Mark Price on the third team in 89. He had a good season, but over Isiah?

[L.Kizzle]

Isiah never making an All-NBA team after 87 might have had something to do with this:

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/dennis-rodman-and-isiah-thomas-on-larry-bird-if-he-was-black-hed-be-just-another-good-guy/

To go from being either first or second time for 5 straight years....to not at all, even after adding a third team from 88 onwards? They stuck Mark Price on the third team in 89. He had a good season, but over Isiah?
I made a thread about that years ago. Dude disappeared off the All NBA teams as the Pistons move up on the ranks. Meanwhile guys like Fat Lever and Alvin Robertson on 30 win teams are making All NBA sqauds ...

[Kobe_Bryant]

Here is the top 25


25. John Havlicek
24. Isiah Thomas
23. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
21. Charles Barkley
20. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Elgin Baylor
18. Moses Malone
17. Karl Malone
16. Julius Erving
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
10. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
6. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan



this is basically what I predicted.

if lebrons accomplishments are given zero criticism or context he definitely should be top 3

and as I said I should be top 10 around 7 or 8

and as I said Durant should be firmly ahead of curry

[eliteballer]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heres-why-didnt-rank-kobe-130018255.html This voter has Mikan top 5:roll:

[L.Kizzle]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heres-why-didnt-rank-kobe-130018255.html This voter has Mikan top 5:roll:
He told you why tho. His influence on the game went into it as well.

[Hey Yo]

Magic continues to get extremely overrated.

[Stephonit]

Having seen the full list revealed I can now say that like nearly all the other lists like it, it is hot smoldering garbage.

I'm guessing USA Today sells more of its papers in California, Los Angeles in particular.

[Kobe_Bryant]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heres-why-didnt-rank-kobe-130018255.html This voter has Mikan top 5:roll:

tbh if Russell is top 5 then mikan should be top 10

don't see much of a difference. both can't play basketball all that well if put in today's NBA. both had dynasties in the early NBA days.

I think Russell being black has something to do with it. we just gloss over cousy and hondo

if Mikan was black he would get the Josh Gibson treatment

truthfully Russell belongs in the 18-20 range. he has no transferable skills aside from rebounding and defense and he would maybe grab 12 a night today. could he step out and defend the 3?.. he would be a role player at best

[Stephonit]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heres-why-didnt-rank-kobe-130018255.html This voter has Mikan top 5:roll:

Didn't see the list but I can tell right off that it is less influenced by the marketing spin doctors that have contaminated popular forums. It's probably more logical and consistent.

[Phoenix]

this is basically what I predicted.

if lebrons accomplishments are given zero criticism or context he definitely should be top 3

and as I said I should be top 10 around 7 or 8

and as I said Durant should be firmly ahead of curry

Why do you think Lebron exists in some kind of 'bubble' where the people voting on these things can't properly contextualize his career?

Also, last week you said only players' opinions should count. So let me guess....you agree with 'your' ranking here so now the media's opinion is worth a damn.............but if 'you' were voted outside the top 10 here you'll refer back to the 'only players opinions count' narrative. So basically, the validity of someone......anyone....player......non-player...... hinges entirely on where they rank Kobe. And you deem this a completely fair and balanced perspective to have.

[the mesiah]

Good to see some media has Wilt over Bill , Earvin gots to be top 3 tho,

[Kobe_Bryant]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heres-why-didnt-rank-kobe-130018255.html This voter has Mikan top 5:roll:

it was written by some b*tch named Nancy. no wonder it's centered around making an argument as to why I'm not top 10

lebron fans and women feel like I raped them and they've had it out for me since day one

[Kobe_Bryant]

Why do you think Lebron exists in some kind of 'bubble' where the people voting on these things can't properly contextualize his career?

Also, last week you said only players' opinions should count. So let me guess....you agree with 'your' ranking here so now the media's opinion is worth a damn.............but if 'you' were voted outside the top 10 here you'll refer back to the 'only players opinions count' narrative. So basically, the validity of someone......anyone....player......non-player...... hinges entirely on where they rank Kobe. And you deem this a completely fair and balanced perspective to have.

the media is mostly made up of soft white guys that never played sports. they barely have time to watch games. they have to wake up early and go to bed around 9pm. they only have box scores and highlights and also have an editor/boss that breathes down their neck the way espn did with Paul pierce telling them.to follow a narrative. the popular thing that sells is what you push. lebron is current and polarizing so you have to push him as one of the goats because it attracts the largest current fan base and it can dig up past fans of retired players that dont agree with it

if all the media did was trash lebron they would turn off current fans and older fans would just be happy and move along with their day. you would only drive up half the clicks/views and it would be 100% backlash

the nba needs a replacement for lebron before they turn on him.

right now giannis and luka aren't big enough


and I've said before that my death is why the media is putting me.in their top 10 now. if I was still alive I have no doubt they would still rank me 12th

[Phoenix]

the media is mostly made up of soft white guys that never played sports. they barely have time to watch games. they have to wake up early and go to bed around 9pm. they only have box scores and highlights and also have an editor/boss that breathes down their neck the way espn did with Paul pierce telling them.to follow a narrative. the popular thing that sells is what you push. lebron is current and polarizing so you have to push him as one of the goats because it attracts the largest current fan base and it can dig up past fans of retired players that dont agree with it

if all the media did was trash lebron they would turn off current fans and older fans would just be happy and move along with their day. you would only drive up half the clicks/views and it would be 100% backlash

the nba needs a replacement for lebron before they turn on him.

right now giannis and luka aren't big enough


and I've said before that my death is why the media is putting me.in their top 10 now. if I was still alive I have no doubt they would still rank me 12th

And rightly so.

[rmt]

Pippen before DBRob is as much a joke as Kobe 3 spots ahead of Shaq.

[L.Kizzle]

It's harder and harder to take this list seriously now. This is the panel of voters. 14. Everyone submitted their top 75 players. Names were definitely being pulled out of hats for these people's list.


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/nba/2021/10/08/nba-greatest-75-michael-jordan-panalists-vote/5879705001/


One voter has Rodman at 18, Draymond at 30 and Wade at 62 I'm their top 75.

Another has Ray Allen at 30.

One has Manu at 37.

One has Westbrook at 17 and Reggie Miller at 27

Robert Horry made 75 on someone's list.

Amare made a list at 61

Mitch Richmond at 54

Pete Maravich someone's #22

Reggie Miller was in a few peoples top 30s.
I've seen Wade outside 50 a few list.

ISH definitely has a better list.

[jlip]

It's harder and harder to take this list seriously now. This is the panel of voters. 14. Everyone submitted their top 75 players. Names were definitely being pulled out of hats for these people's list.


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/nba/2021/10/08/nba-greatest-75-michael-jordan-panalists-vote/5879705001/


One voter has Rodman at 18, Draymond at 30 and Wade at 62 I'm their top 75.

Another has Ray Allen at 30.

One has Manu at 37.

One has Westbrook at 17 and Reggie Miller at 27

Robert Horry made 75 on someone's list.

Amare made a list at 61

Mitch Richmond at 54

Pete Maravich someone's #22

Reggie Miller was in a few peoples top 30s.
I've seen Wade outside 50 a few list.

ISH definitely has a better list.

Despite all of the trolling, I believe the average ISH poster is considerably more knowledgeable of the history of the game than most of sports media. ISH posters, even the trolls, are actually exposed to regular stats, advanced stats, historical articles, and intelligent arguments made by knowledgeable posters regarding the history of the game. Most of sports media appears to be, at best, casual students of bball history whose knowledge of the past doesn't extend much beyond what they may have seen as children or have heard regurgitated down through the years by other media personalities.

[L.Kizzle]

Despite all of the trolling, I believe the average ISH poster is considerably more knowledgeable of the history of the game than most of sports media. ISH posters, even the trolls, are actually exposed to regular stats, advanced stats, historical articles, and intelligent arguments made by knowledgeable posters regarding the history of the game. Most of sports media appears to be, at best, casual students of bball history whose knowledge of the past doesn't extend much beyond what they may have seen as children or have heard regurgitated down through the years by other media personalities.
I would like Jim's explanation for these selections from his list.



36. Dolph Schayes
39. Paul Arizin
49. George Mikan
70. Bob Cousy
71. Neil Johnston
72. Vern Mikkelsen
73. Ed Macauley

[jlip]

I would like Jim's explanation for these selections from his list.



36. Dolph Schayes
39. Paul Arizin
49. George Mikan
70. Bob Cousy
71. Neil Johnston
72. Vern Mikkelsen
73. Ed Macauley

His list is completely insane. I would like to know his rationale for having Bird, Duncan, and Russell outside of his top 10 and Dr. J at #40. He actually has Nash, Pippen, and Reggie Miller ahead of Dr. J. How old is he?

[L.Kizzle]

His list is completely insane. I would like to know his rationale for having Bird, Duncan, and Russell outside of his top 10 and Dr. J at #40. He actually has Nash, Pippen, and Reggie Miller ahead of Dr. J. How old is he?
Didn't even notice Doc at 40. I seen the 50s players all bunched together at the bottom and I just skimmed through any other players from that era and where they were ranked.

That's why I stated some of these voters had to be pulling names out or a hat.

[Kobe_Bryant]

And rightly so.

na. out of the top 12 or so players all time I'm

#4 in championships
#6 in finals mvps
#9 in league mvps
#3 in points
#2 in all nba 1st teams
#1 in defensive first times
#2 in allstar games
#1 in allstar mvps
#2 in 60 point games
#3 in 50 point games
#3 in 40 point games

and out of every guy I'm the only one to win multiple times without a top 75 all time teammate

theres no logical reason to have me ranked 12th or even outside of the top 10 when nothing I've done is outside of the top 10 when compared to the guys you rank ahead of me

[Wally450]

Magic continues to get extremely overrated.

This. I almost choked on my milk when I saw him ahead of Russell and Wilt.

[Phoenix]

na. out of the top 12 or so players all time I'm

#4 in championships
#6 in finals mvps
#9 in league mvps
#3 in points
#2 in all nba 1st teams
#1 in defensive first times
#2 in allstar games
#1 in allstar mvps
#2 in 60 point games
#3 in 50 point games
#3 in 40 point games

and out of every guy I'm the only one to win multiple times without a top 75 all time teammate

theres no logical reason to have me ranked 12th or even outside of the top 10 when nothing I've done is outside of the top 10 when compared to the guys you rank ahead of me

Yep. 12th sounds about right for that.

[Hey Yo]

na. out of the top 12 or so players all time I'm

#4 in championships
#6 in finals mvps
#9 in league mvps
#3 in points
#2 in all nba 1st teams
#1 in defensive first times
#2 in allstar games
#1 in allstar mvps
#2 in 60 point games
#3 in 50 point games
#3 in 40 point games

and out of every guy I'm the only one to win multiple times without a top 75 all time teammate

theres no logical reason to have me ranked 12th or even outside of the top 10 when nothing I've done is outside of the top 10 when compared to the guys you rank ahead of me

#4 in championships??

You're tied with Hakeem and Wilt. The others have more.

[rmt]

na. out of the top 12 or so players all time I'm

#4 in championships
#6 in finals mvps
#9 in league mvps <== this is telling
#3 in points
#2 in all nba 1st teams
#1 in defensive first times <== what a joke
#2 in allstar games
#1 in allstar mvps
#2 in 60 point games
#3 in 50 point games
#3 in 40 point games

and out of every guy I'm the only one to win multiple times without a top 75 all time teammate

theres no logical reason to have me ranked 12th or even outside of the top 10 when nothing I've done is outside of the top 10 when compared to the guys you rank ahead of me

You're just the only one to win a MAJORITY of your rings as the 2nd option with a top 8 all time teammate.

[Phoenix]

You're just the only one to win a MAJORITY of your rings as the 2nd option with a top 8 all time teammate.

:cheers:

[aceman]

What puts Pippen over Giannis or Kawhi?

What puts Pippen over Dirk?

Can someone answer this?... Is it the 6 "horry" rings that Pippen has?... Is that how he's ranked over guys that played far better than he ever did?

When did Pippen play at a top 75 level?... Top 75 is reserved for the best performances ever like 11' Dirk or 21' Giannis, so how does Pippen belong?

When did he ever play at top 75 level?... he literally never did... 22/5 with 55 wins and 2nd Round loss isn't top 75 and neither is 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals..

Furthermore, it's literally impossible that he's top 75 because he was barely top 50 in 1997, and tons of guys have passed him since... The reason his ranking increased despite tons of guys passing him is because new fans/media never saw him play and can only do on-paper evaluations of Pippen - these on-paper evaluations rank his 6 rings over Giannis or Dirk's 1 ring... So Pippen erroneously gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - it would be like Klay getting ranked over Harden due to rings - this would be unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets - ONLY pippen gets this treatment, so he's the most overrated player in history.

It's official now - just accept it

[aceman]

Pippen ahead of guys like Wade, Robinson and KG is an absolute f*cking joke

Pippen's more influential. Lebron, Kawhi etc. have games which resemble Pippen

[aceman]

What puts Pippen over Giannis or Kawhi?

What puts Pippen over Dirk?

Can someone answer this?... Is it the 6 "horry" rings that Pippen has?... Is that how he's ranked over guys that played far better than he ever did?

When did Pippen play at a top 75 level?... Top 75 is reserved for the best performances ever like 11' Dirk or 21' Giannis, so how does Pippen belong?

When did he ever play at top 75 level?... he literally never did... 22/5 with 55 wins and 2nd Round loss isn't top 75 and neither is 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals..

Furthermore, it's literally impossible that he's top 75 because he was barely top 50 in 1997, and tons of guys have passed him since... The reason his ranking increased despite tons of guys passing him is because new fans/media never saw him play and can only do on-paper evaluations of Pippen - these on-paper evaluations rank his 6 rings over Giannis or Dirk's 1 ring... So Pippen erroneously gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - it would be like Klay getting ranked over Harden due to rings - this would be unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets - ONLY pippen gets this treatment, so he's the most overrated player in history.

In 1997 nobody knew the next generation of superstars were going to be point forwards just like Pippen. His true impact became known over time

[outofstomach]

Why do you think Lebron exists in some kind of 'bubble' where the people voting on these things can't properly contextualize his career?

Also, last week you said only players' opinions should count. So let me guess....you agree with 'your' ranking here so now the media's opinion is worth a damn.............but if 'you' were voted outside the top 10 here you'll refer back to the 'only players opinions count' narrative. So basically, the validity of someone......anyone....player......non-player...... hinges entirely on where they rank Kobe. And you deem this a completely fair and balanced perspective to have.
they dont properly contextualize his career and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise

[outofstomach]

Pippen's more influential. Lebron, Kawhi etc. have games which resemble Pippen

you’re a moron

[8Ball]

Pippen top 22 like I always knew he was, higher than Wade.

Bron is too low as usual.

[Phoenix]

they dont properly contextualize his career and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise

There's nothing disingenuous or pretense about my post, whether you agree with the content or otherwise.

[aceman]

you’re a moron

So the game today isn't full of multi - positional players who defend most positions, handle the ball, shoot & score in different ways?!

[kawhileonard2]

Pippen top 22 like I always knew he was, higher than Wade.

Bron is too low as usual.

Bron is too high. About 13 spots too high after missing playoffs with peak Anthony Davis, Westbrook and then Dwight, Melo, Monk and THT.

[kawhileonard2]

So the game today isn't full of multi - positional players who defend most positions, handle the ball, shoot & score in different ways?!

Yes and guys like Steph can play center right?

[FKAri]

Yes and guys like Steph can play center right?

Most. Not all. I can see the influence factor for Pippen but him over Wade is a tough one. Even adding in that Pippen was making huge contributions on good teams for longer Wade at his best was significantly better.

[Bacchus]

That's three NBA major news organizations that has put Jordan over Lebron. The Sporting News, ESPN & USA Today. What major sports organization has Lebron over Jordan

[Baller789]

That's three NBA major news organizations that has put Jordan over Lebron. The Sporting News, ESPN & USA Today. What major sports organization has Lebron over Jordan

Guess the Bronies have ISH for that :oldlol:

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

USA TODAY has put out their 75 greatest NBA Players ahead of the NBA's official announcement. This is 75-51.

75. Alex English
74. Dave DeBusschere
73. Nate Tiny Archibald
72. Bernard King
71. Manu Ginobili
69. (Tie) Vince Carter; Robert Parish
68. Tony Parker
67. Dwight Howard
66. Tracy McGrady
65. Paul Arizin
64. Dave Cowens
62. (Tie) Carmelo Anthony; Earl Monroe
61. Sam Jones
60. Bob McAdoo
59. Paul Pierce
58. Dolph Schayes
57. Anthony Davis
56. Pete Maravich
55. Dennis Rodman
54. Wes Unseld
53. Bill Walton
52. Willis Reed
51. James Worthy
Parker and Rodman too high


Players 50-26
50. Clyde Drexler
49. Ray Allen
48. Reggie Miller
47. Dominique Wilkins
46. Garry Payton
45. Walt Frazier
44. George Gervin
43. Kevin McHale
42. Bob Cousy
40. (Tie) James Harden; Russell Westbrook
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Chris Paul
37. Steve Nash
36. Patrick Ewing
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. Jason Kidd
32. Bob Pettit
31. Rick Barry
30. Giannis Antetekoumpou
29. Allen Iverson
28. Dwyane Wade
27. John Stockton
26. Kevin Garnett
Harden doesn't deserve to be in the top 75 let alone top 50,the list is significantly ruined because of this.


Here is the top 25


25. John Havlicek
24. Isiah Thomas
23. David Robinson
22. Scottie Pippen
21. Charles Barkley
20. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Elgin Baylor
18. Moses Malone
17. Karl Malone
16. Julius Erving
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
10. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
6. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan
Pippen is not top 50 he's never done anything of real significance other than ride the coattails of the GOAT and then when he tried to do it on two other teams it was either a failure or a dumpster fire.Paul George is better than him and he didn't even make the list.

Curry and KD too high

Hakeem should be in the top 10,he had one of the greatest championship runs and did it with less help.Elite two-way player.

LeBron at best is borderline top 10,too much flopping,stat padding,team hopping,stacking the deck and underachieving to be in the GOAT conversation.He isn't even the greatest SF.

On what planet is Magic better than Wilt?

[Stephonit]

Parker and Rodman too high


Harden doesn't deserve to be in the top 75 let alone top 50,the list is significantly ruined because of this.


Pippen is not top 50 he's never done anything of real significance other than ride the coattails of the GOAT and then when he tried to do it on two other teams it was either a failure or a dumpster fire.Paul George is better than him and he didn't even make the list.

Curry and KD too high

Hakeem should be in the top 10,he had one of the greatest championship runs and did it with less help.Elite two-way player.

LeBron at best is borderline top 10,too much flopping,stat padding,team hopping,stacking the deck and underachieving to be in the GOAT conversation.He isn't even the greatest SF.

On what planet is Magic better than Wilt?

The one where media ingratiates itself to the Los Angeles market.

[Lebron23]

Parker and Rodman too high


Harden doesn't deserve to be in the top 75 let alone top 50,the list is significantly ruined because of this.


Pippen is not top 50 he's never done anything of real significance other than ride the coattails of the GOAT and then when he tried to do it on two other teams it was either a failure or a dumpster fire.Paul George is better than him and he didn't even make the list.

Curry and KD too high

Hakeem should be in the top 10,he had one of the greatest championship runs and did it with less help.Elite two-way player.

LeBron at best is borderline top 10,too much flopping,stat padding,team hopping,stacking the deck and underachieving to be in the GOAT conversation.He isn't even the greatest SF.

On what planet is Magic better than Wilt?

Have you ever taken your medications sir???

[kawhileonard2]

Bron is too high. About 13 spots too high after missing playoffs with peak Anthony Davis, Westbrook and then Dwight, Melo, Monk and THT.

This