LeBron has won 4 titles “Westbrooking”

[AirBonner]

What happens if he wins a title with Westbrook westbrooking? :pimp:

[TheCorporation]

GOAT TIER: LeBron

Tier A: Kareem / Russell

Tier B: Bird / Duncan / Magic / Shaq

Tier C: Jordan / Hakeem

Tier D: Kobe / West / Dirk / KG

Tier F: Who cares

[Vino24]

A Westbrook inside of a Westbrook.
Inception

[TheCorporation]

A Westbrook inside of a Westbrook.
Inception

Bestbrook :lebronamazed:

[Bronbron23]

What happens if he wins a title with Westbrook westbrooking? :pimp:
No he didn't. They're both ball dominant but they play nothing alike.

[Vino24]

No he didn't. They're both ball dominant but they play nothing alike.

3ball says LeBron is just a taller Westbrook

[Kobe_Bryant]

GOAT TIER: LeBron

Tier A: Kareem / Russell

Tier B: Bird / Duncan / Magic / Shaq

Tier C: Jordan / Hakeem

Tier D: Kobe / West / Dirk / KG

Tier F: Who cares

ban yourself Steve. this was putrid

[Kobe_Bryant]

3ball says LeBron is just a taller Westbrook

great minds think alike I guess. I said he was Westbrook with durants rings and Barry bonds muscles

a complete manufactured player and career

[Spurs m8]

What happens if he wins a title with Westbrook westbrooking? :pimp:

Not much

He'll still get no respect and you'll still be a virgin

[FultzNationRISE]

Not much

He'll still get no respect and you'll still be a virgin


Can you ****ing chill out dude? Those kinds of attacks are not considered appropriate discussion at Insidehoops.

I suggest you check that ass before I wreck that ass.

[3ba11]

What happens if he wins a title with Westbrook westbrooking? :pimp:


Westbrooking is an inferior STRATEGY, so it needs better TALENT to offset it (super-teams)

Indeed, Lebron never won without super-teams, certainly not as the clear-cut top producer

Without super-teams, Lebron was just another career losing ball-dominator just like all the other ball-dominators, aka Westbrook, Harden, CP3, Nash, etc

[Im so nba'd out]

Westbrooking is an inferior STRATEGY, so it needs better TALENT to offset it (super-teams)

Indeed, Lebron never won without super-teams, certainly not as the clear-cut top producer

1 lebron is a high iq player unlike westbrook so no he's not ''westbrooking''....westbrook is like a clone of oscar Robinson...LeBron is by far the best at the oscar archetype basketball....by far the best....westbrook, oscar himself, luka,harden, jordan in 88....are all inferior players to lebron

[Ne 1]

Westbrooking is an inferior STRATEGY, so it needs better TALENT to offset it (super-teams)

Indeed, Lebron never won without super-teams, certainly not as the clear-cut top producer

Without super-teams, Lebron was just another career losing ball-dominator just like all the other ball-dominators, aka Westbrook, Harden, CP3, Nash, etc

To sum it up:

You can give LeBron teammates all the credit for winning and blame LeBron for losing...

You just mad because he's not ringless like the other ball dominators you labeled as "losers.”

Why is it nobody ever said Eric Spoelstra, Ty Lue, Frank Vogel are ringless without super teams? Nobody ever said Bosh and Kyrie and Love and AD are ringless without super teams. Somehow, the common denominator in all of this winning is the loser though right!? Lmao

[8Ball]

What happens if he wins a title with Westbrook westbrooking? :pimp:

He makes the gap larger between him and 2nd place.

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[3ba11]

In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron almost always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds in the playoffs (good casts relative to conference). So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did - Lebron got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds.

Even in 2018, Lebron still had the best 2nd option in the conference - Love averaged 20/10 in the 2nd Round against the #2 SRS Raptors and the same against the Warriors, so Lebron has never beaten a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) and can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen.. Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's - he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer.

Ultimately, guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd won the 00's East with 1-star teams, so Lebron was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run just like them until the "decision" to form super-teams.. The 00's East is the only conference ever that was won by multiple 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking the deck).. His skillset requires deck-stacking because he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring (described earlier), while his skill restriction to ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so Lebron has a lottery record against the Spurs, Mavs and Warriors..

It shouldn't be a surprise that a guy who plays a version of Harden or Westbrook-ball is 4/10 in the Finals.. He might be smarter or more efficient than those guys, but he employs the same inferior strategy (ball-dominance) that mostly loses on the championship level.. Inferior strategy (ball-dominance) loses regardless of who is employing it.. Ultimately, Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill or quick-iso skillset to play off-ball more often - instead, his ball-dominance has poor fits with various teammates and prevents the best strategy (ball movement), so he produces lower team ceilings/Finals records..

The inherent flaw in Lebron's game is that he starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (a 2nd player with a point guard hold-time) - teammates have less hold-time and assists in Lebron's 2 point guard lineups than they get in 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and struggles on the championship level (4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts).. Indeed, the common thread in Lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists.

People forget that everyone in history needed a teammate to match or exceed their playoff scoring for most of their rings, while MJ averaged at least 10 more than teammates in every SERIES... This includes the Finals, where Jordan averaged 10-20 more than Pippen each time (carry-job), compared to 2-5 for Lebron (shared load)..

Btw, Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs and had 2 Finals of 15.7 on 40% (19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals).. People say scoring isn't everything, but scoring is what determines if you're a 2nd option, otherwise you're just a defensive role player.. Pippen's entire playoff career was worse than "Pandemic P", except the 91' run... But imagine if Pippen went to the Finals and demolished MVP Malone or Barkley like Kyrie did Curry - that's the only way Jordan's ring quality could be reduced to Lebron's best ring.

Pippen also had the worst impact stats ever for a winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), and among the worst true shooting (45% true shooting in Finals while letting Dumas go off and making MJ average 41).. He also was destroyed by X-man in the 92' 2nd Round, which nearly derailed the title that year, while costing the Bulls titles from 88-90' - anytime a series was close or lost, it was Pippen's poor play that caused it because MJ never had a bad series.. Otoh, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% in the 2008 2nd Round, and wet the bed in the 07' and 11' Finals - so only Lebron lost series while playing poorly poorly or inefficiently..

Heck, at 22-23 years old, Jordan averaged 44/6/6 on 50% against a championship team and #1 defense (86' Celtics), while 07' Lebron averaged 22 on 35% against the Spurs. Lebron had an experienced 2 seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win

[Bronbron23]

3ball says LeBron is just a taller Westbrook

Yeah well he also thinks pippen sucks so i wouldn't take his word on much

[Kobe_Bryant]

Yeah well he also thinks pippen sucks so i wouldn't take his word on much

I think pippens top 30 all time and started the lebron is Westbrook with durants rings and Barry bonds roid muscles

[3ba11]

Yeah well he also thinks pippen sucks so i wouldn't take his word on much


Lebron might be smarter or more efficient than Westbrook, but he employs the same inferior strategy (ball-dominance) that mostly loses on the championship level.. Inferior strategy loses regardless of who is employing it.. Even a smarter, 6'9" Westbrooker will mostly lose, even with super-teams.

Ultimately, Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill or quick-iso skillset to play off-ball more often - instead, his ball-dominance has poor fits with various teammates and prevents the best strategy (ball movement), so he produces lower team ceilings/Finals records..

[tpols]

He had to team hop for it and play with fellow MVP talent and All NBA guys as 3rd option.

[Bronbron23]

I think pippens top 30 all time and started the lebron is Westbrook with durants rings and Barry bonds roid muscles

I don't where i rank pip. He's a tough one to rank because of tge circumstances. All i know is He's a great player and alot better than what 3ball thinks

[Bronbron23]

Lebron might be smarter or more efficient than Westbrook, but he employs the same inferior strategy (ball-dominance) that mostly loses on the championship level.. Inferior strategy loses regardless of who is employing it.. Even a smarter, 6'9" Westbrooker will mostly lose, even with super-teams.

Ultimately, Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill or quick-iso skillset to play off-ball more often - instead, his ball-dominance has poor fits with various teammates and prevents the best strategy (ball movement), so he produces lower team ceilings/Finals records..

I don't know man. I agree brons lack of off ball movement and jump shooting is a huge part of why mj is better but that dosn't mean bron isn't still great. Lots of atg greats didn't have those skills either. Magic, kareem and shaq to name a few. Greek is one in this generation.

[Axe]

In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron almost always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds in the playoffs (good casts relative to conference). So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did - Lebron got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds.

Even in 2018, Lebron still had the best 2nd option in the conference - Love averaged 20/10 in the 2nd Round against the #2 SRS Raptors and the same against the Warriors, so Lebron has never beaten a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) and can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen.. Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's - he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer.

Ultimately, guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd won the 00's East with 1-star teams, so Lebron was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run just like them until the "decision" to form super-teams.. The 00's East is the only conference ever that was won by multiple 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking the deck).. His skillset requires deck-stacking because he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring (described earlier), while his skill restriction to ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so Lebron has a lottery record against the Spurs, Mavs and Warriors..

It shouldn't be a surprise that a guy who plays a version of Harden or Westbrook-ball is 4/10 in the Finals.. He might be smarter or more efficient than those guys, but he employs the same inferior strategy (ball-dominance) that mostly loses on the championship level.. Inferior strategy (ball-dominance) loses regardless of who is employing it.. Ultimately, Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill or quick-iso skillset to play off-ball more often - instead, his ball-dominance has poor fits with various teammates and prevents the best strategy (ball movement), so he produces lower team ceilings/Finals records..

The inherent flaw in Lebron's game is that he starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (a 2nd player with a point guard hold-time) - teammates have less hold-time and assists in Lebron's 2 point guard lineups than they get in 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and struggles on the championship level (4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts).. Indeed, the common thread in Lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists.

People forget that everyone in history needed a teammate to match or exceed their playoff scoring for most of their rings, while MJ averaged at least 10 more than teammates in every SERIES... This includes the Finals, where Jordan averaged 10-20 more than Pippen each time (carry-job), compared to 2-5 for Lebron (shared load)..

Btw, Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs and had 2 Finals of 15.7 on 40% (19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals).. People say scoring isn't everything, but scoring is what determines if you're a 2nd option, otherwise you're just a defensive role player.. Pippen's entire playoff career was worse than "Pandemic P", except the 91' run... But imagine if Pippen went to the Finals and demolished MVP Malone or Barkley like Kyrie did Curry - that's the only way Jordan's ring quality could be reduced to Lebron's best ring.

Pippen also had the worst impact stats ever for a winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), and among the worst true shooting (45% true shooting in Finals while letting Dumas go off and making MJ average 41).. He also was destroyed by X-man in the 92' 2nd Round, which nearly derailed the title that year, while costing the Bulls titles from 88-90' - anytime a series was close or lost, it was Pippen's poor play that caused it because MJ never had a bad series.. Otoh, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% in the 2008 2nd Round, and wet the bed in the 07' and 11' Finals - so only Lebron lost series while playing poorly poorly or inefficiently..

Heck, at 22-23 years old, Jordan averaged 44/6/6 on 50% against a championship team and #1 defense (86' Celtics), while 07' Lebron averaged 22 on 35% against the Spurs. Lebron had an experienced 2 seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win
Kobe was a second option who averaged only around almost 16 ppg in his finals debut.

[8Ball]

I don't where i rank pip. He's a tough one to rank because of tge circumstances. All i know is He's a great player and alot better than what 3ball thinks

Pippen outperformed more than half of the other team's 1st option and outperformed nearly all of the other team's 2nd option.

That means he was a top 5 player for the entire 90s.

He's in the top 22 all time.

[Bronbron23]

Pippen outperformed more than half of the other team's 1st option and outperformed nearly all of the other team's 2nd option.

That means he was a top 5 player for the entire 90s.

He's in the top 22 all time.

He wasn't better than mj, hakeem, barkley, malone, shaq or drob so not sure where your getting top 5. It's debatable if he was even better drexler or ewing who both lead teams to deep playoff runs as the main guy. Pip was great defensively but offensively he was often mediocre. Teams didn't worry about him offensively. He didn't draw the defensive attention that helps open up your teams offense like other greats did.

As far as top 22 no way he's that. He' top 30 though. I probably have him at 28 or so right behind wade an kawhi

[Bronbron23]

Pippen outperformed more than half of the other team's 1st option and outperformed nearly all of the other team's 2nd option.

That means he was a top 5 player for the entire 90s.

He's in the top 22 all time.

And as far as outperforming half of the other teams first options i'm assuming your talking about finals and that's not the case. An argument could be made he outperformed magic in 91 and Drexler in 92 but it's tough to say. Both were their teams number 1 option. Defenses were designed to shut them down. Defenses weren't worrying about pip offensively. They were to busy trying to stop mj. We really only have one example of pip without mj against a good defense in the playoffs and that's the 94 playoffs against the knicks. In that series he was 21.7/7.7/4.9 on 40.5% shooting. Not bad but not amazing either. In that same series he quit on his team because he wasn't a good enough shooter in the clutch. He also scored 20 points on 35% fg in game 7 elimination. Again he didn't suck but he wasn't great either. The following season it looked like bulls weren't even gonna make playoffs until mj came back and they went on a run.

Point being we have no idea what pip would of done without mj. He probably gets a fair amount of all nba teams and defensive teams but i doubt he gets any other accolades than that. As far as playoffs he probably makes the post season most years but dosn't make many deep runs.

[MadDog]

Westbrook has played with arguably more talent than LeBron, and it hasn't amounted to any team success (championships). I'm not a fan of either player, but the comparison to LeBron is a joke lol

[NBAGOAT]

He had to team hop for it and play with fellow MVP talent and All NBA guys as 3rd option.

Westbrook’s almost always had a mvp candidate with him and he’s the 2nd guy too. Exceptions are 2017, 18, and last year but he was still playing with an all-nba guy 2 of those years. He was past his prime but it’s crazy how little his teams do in the playoffs outside of the ones with kd. Also okc had a big 3 setup with George and melo in 2018 and that was a disaster and melo fell off a cliff. Guessing you don’t put any on blame on Westbrook for that like you would lebron

[Axe]

Westbrook has played with arguably more talent than LeBron, and it hasn't amounted to any team success (championships). I'm not a fan of either player, but the comparison to LeBron is a joke lol
He wasn't consistent enough.

[MadDog]

He wasn't consistent enough.

Nor has the feel, efficiency and iq LeBron has to run an offense. Russell Westbrook has one gear, and that's balls to the wall. Maybe he'll learn a thing or two from LeBron. :confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Nor has the feel, efficiency and iq LeBron has to run an offense. Russell Westbrook has one gear, and that's balls to the wall. Maybe he'll learn a thing or two from LeBron. :confusedshrug:
Yep, kinda sad for someone who's a triple-double machine.