Horace Grant said the Magic were better then the Bulls

[TAZORAC]

Horace Grant said in a recent interview that a healthy Magic team would have beat the Bulls. Said that the Magic were easily more talented then the Bulls.

[dankok8]

More talented sure... but better? I don't think so. When you get swept including two blowouts I don't think a merely good player like Horace Grant is making that much of a difference. Maybe they take the Bulls 5 games or best case 6 games but they aren't winning.

[Phoenix]

Shaq, pre-injury Penny, Horace, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott. Yes they were more talented.

[NBAGOAT]

I agree the starting 5 for the magic is one of the better ones of all time. Still talent should be about basketball ability and that’s not just offense. I would say rodman was a better player Scott and Anderson, it’s not crazy to say he’s more talented too with his defense and rebounding.

[fourkicks44]

Everyone is in denial that Jordan was 'rusty' when he come back in 95 . Maybe that was a factor, but not as big as the fact he needed a great PF to win in the 90's.

When Horace was gone, and up against him ironically, they got their ass kicked.

When they got Rodman they became the greatest team ever. As has been debated many times on this forum, Rodman even had a strong case for FMVP in 96.

Coincidence? I think not.

[nayte]

Ayee so everyone is in denial but not you. Almost everyone has talked about Jordan not being in shape.
Shaq is a once in a lifetime beast. It's gonna take a lot to beat him along with penny who was first team all nba

[Phoenix]

Even with MJ not in proper shape( and I think it was more about his timing and game management because he was still producing), had Horace been on the Bulls in 95 they probably beat the Magic. You weren't going to beat Shaq with Toni Kukoc playing at the 4. The following year with Rodman in tow, and we saw the result. It's probably at most a 6 game series with Chicago winning if Horace wasn't injured.

[HoopsNY]

Even with MJ not in proper shape( and I think it was more about his timing and game management because he was still producing), had Horace been on the Bulls in 95 they probably beat the Magic. You weren't going to beat Shaq with Toni Kukoc playing at the 4. The following year with Rodman in tow, and we saw the result. It's probably at most a 6 game series with Chicago winning if Horace wasn't injured.

Chicago was blowing out Orlando in the 3rd quarter almost near to a close by 21 when he got injured.

I don't think the series goes 6 with him healthy, especially if you also factor in Pippen's back woes and Harper's injury, which eventually sidelined him in the finals. A healthy Chicago team and Magic team end up in Chicago sweeping them. The '96 Bulls were just that good.

[HoopsNY]

Everyone is in denial that Jordan was 'rusty' when he come back in 95 . Maybe that was a factor, but not as big as the fact he needed a great PF to win in the 90's.

When Horace was gone, and up against him ironically, they got their ass kicked.

When they got Rodman they became the greatest team ever. As has been debated many times on this forum, Rodman even had a strong case for FMVP in 96.

Coincidence? I think not.

If MJ doesn't retire, both him and Pippen would be at their peaks. I think that would have been enough to get them to the finals in 1995, but not enough to overcome Houston.

And clearly Jordan was not in the best shape and rusty, he only averaged 27 PPG on a woeful 41% shooting when he returned.

And while in the playoffs he averaged 31.5 PPG on 48%, that's a considerable downsize from where he left off in 1993 in the finals, averaging 41 PPG.

[Bronbron23]

Horace Grant said in a recent interview that a healthy Magic team would have beat the Bulls. Said that the Magic were easily more talented then the Bulls.

They were definitely more talented top to bottom but more talented and better are 2 different things.

[Phoenix]

Chicago was blowing out Orlando in the 3rd quarter almost near to a close by 21 when he got injured.

I don't think the series goes 6 with him healthy, especially if you also factor in Pippen's back woes and Harper's injury, which eventually sidelined him in the finals. A healthy Chicago team and Magic team end up in Chicago sweeping them. The '96 Bulls were just that good.

Which was, what? Game 1? If the Bulls were up 2-0 and the above scenario occurred I would say yeah, Horace's availability or otherwise has no tangible outcome on the number of games. Games 2 and 4 were won by 5 points. It's not like Chicago blew them out every game. Maybe it only goes 5 and not 6, it's certainly not a semantic worth speculating on beyond casually.

[eliteballer]

Give the Magic a healthy Grant and the real 3 point line in 96 reducing Pippen and Jordan’s effectiveness and it’s a very competitive series.

[eliteballer]

Chicago was blowing out Orlando in the 3rd quarter almost near to a close by 21 when he got injured.

I don't think the series goes 6 with him healthy, especially if you also factor in Pippen's back woes and Harper's injury, which eventually sidelined him in the finals. A healthy Chicago team and Magic team end up in Chicago sweeping them. The '96 Bulls were just that good.

Grant was already injured going into game 1. What happens if it’s the opposite
and Grant is healthy while the Bulls 3rd best player Rodman is hobbled?

[tpols]

I remember as a kid when our team would get whooped it was usually because the other team was just so much bigger. Facing Shaq must have been nightmare inducing.

[HoopsNY]

Which was, what? Game 1? If the Bulls were up 2-0 and the above scenario occurred I would say yeah, Horace's availability or otherwise has no tangible outcome on the number of games. Games 2 and 4 were won by 5 points. It's not like Chicago blew them out every game. Maybe it only goes 5 and not 6, it's certainly not a semantic worth speculating on beyond casually.

My bad for wording it poorly. My point was that if we say Grant is healthy, then we have to give Chicago the benefit of the doubt and make Pippen and Harper healthy, too.

[HoopsNY]

Grant was already injured going into game 1. What happens if it’s the opposite
and Grant is healthy while the Bulls 3rd best player Rodman is hobbled?

Forget about Rodman being hobbled - peak Pippen was already hobbled and so was Harper. You can't just give the Magic the benefit of the doubt with a healthy Grant and ignore Chicago's injury woes.

Here's another thing, Orlando was 1-3 against Chicago in the '96 season, and the only game they won was with Rodman being out. Grant averaged 11/9 on 57% in the three losses, so clearly his output wasn't as impactful as some are making it seem.

Going into that series, Chicago was so banged up that even their trainer made noise about it. Toni Kukoc was another one battling injuries. It was during the Knicks series that Kukoc tweaked his lower back. And as a result, Kukoc missed 3 of the 5 games.


It wasn't Michael Jordan talking about needing a day off. It wasn't Dennis Rodman discussing his latest calculated attention-grabbing move. It wasn't even Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson, who reluctantly has found himself trading verbal barbs with New York Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy.

No, the guy with the uneasy expression was team trainer Chip Schaefer, who should think about hiring an agent with all the media attention he has gotten the last month.

If Schaefer is the Bulls' latest media darling, that isn't exactly good news for the team. That means somebody is hurt. This time, everybody is eager to know the status of Toni Kukoc and Scottie Pippen, and the condition of their backs. The interest has heightened in Chicago as the Bulls take a 3-1 lead into Game 5 of their best-of-7 Eastern Conference semifinal against the Knicks at 8 tonight at the United Center.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1996-05-14-9605140158-story.html

[3ba11]

Of course the Magic were better because Penny destroyed Pippen

Check the stats

But Shaq-ball usually gets figured out at some point so MJ would prevail in the end .

[eliteballer]

Forget about Rodman being hobbled - peak Pippen was already hobbled and so was Harper. You can't just give the Magic the benefit of the doubt with a healthy Grant and ignore Chicago's injury woes.

Here's another thing, Orlando was 1-3 against Chicago in the '96 season, and the only game they won was with Rodman being out. Grant averaged 11/9 on 57% in the three losses, so clearly his output wasn't as impactful as some are making it seem.

Going into that series, Chicago was so banged up that even their trainer made noise about it. Toni Kukoc was another one battling injuries. It was during the Knicks series that Kukoc tweaked his lower back. And as a result, Kukoc missed 3 of the 5 games.



https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1996-05-14-9605140158-story.html

Lol at you trying to change the subject to Bulls supposed nagging injures. They looked damn healthy in that series and EVERY team has some degree of nagging physical issues at that point. You also forgot to mention Shaq only played like 50 games in the 96 regular season. If you don’t know all the facts please don’t comment.

[L.Kizzle]

That was supposed to be team of the future.
How would things had panned out if Nick Anderson had hit one of those four free-throws he had missed?

[HoopsNY]

Lol at you trying to change the subject to Bulls supposed nagging injures. They looked damn healthy in that series and EVERY team has some degree of nagging physical issues at that point. You also forgot to mention Shaq only played like 50 games in the 96 regular season. If you don’t know all the facts please don’t comment.

I see where this is going. Persecute MJ and expect him to win with no Rodman and a hobbled cast. It's amazing when 3ball mentions Pippen's numbers from the 1996 finals, the retort is "Pippen was injured!" But suddenly it doesn't count against Orlando. Go figure.

I also like how you claimed they were "supposed" nagging injuries. :lol

And Shaq played in 2 games against Chicago in 1996 - Orlando lost both of those games. :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

If MJ doesn't retire, both him and Pippen would be at their peaks. I think that would have been enough to get them to the finals in 1995, but not enough to overcome Houston.

And clearly Jordan was not in the best shape and rusty, he only averaged 27 PPG on a woeful 41% shooting when he returned.

And while in the playoffs he averaged 31.5 PPG on 48%, that's a considerable downsize from where he left off in 1993 in the finals, averaging 41 PPG.

After MJ dropped 55pts at MSG against the number 1 defense in the league, all the talk was how great he looks and hasn't missed a beat.

Fast forward a couple months, right after the Bull's lost, the talk quickly turned to the excuses seen above...

It's quite comical to say a player is rusty and out of shape after putting up the numbers MJ did. Maybe the 10ppg less than the 93' Finals had more to do with his 33fga per game in 93' instead of rusty and out of shape in 95'

[97 bulls]

Both teams being healthy? The Bulls probably win in 5. You guys saying the Magic had more talent are wrong. I'd take a fully healthy Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Harped over a fully healthy Shaq, Penny, Scott, Grant, and Anderson. And the Bulls had a better bench.

[ShawkFactory]

If MJ doesn't retire, both him and Pippen would be at their peaks. I think that would have been enough to get them to the finals in 1995, but not enough to overcome Houston.

And clearly Jordan was not in the best shape and rusty, he only averaged 27 PPG on a woeful 41% shooting when he returned.

And while in the playoffs he averaged 31.5 PPG on 48%, that's a considerable downsize from where he left off in 1993 in the finals, averaging 41 PPG.

If you look at 96-98, he never really got back to the first 3peat numbers. 32 on 48% is pretty in line with, and even greater than what he did the second time around.

[JBSptfn]

Everyone is in denial that Jordan was 'rusty' when he come back in 95 . Maybe that was a factor, but not as big as the fact he needed a great PF to win in the 90's.

When Horace was gone, and up against him ironically, they got their ass kicked.

When they got Rodman they became the greatest team ever. As has been debated many times on this forum, Rodman even had a strong case for FMVP in 96.

Coincidence? I think not.

Greatest team ever? The 86 Celtics, 84 and 87 Lakers, 83 Sixers, and 60's Celtics say hi. Heck, the 86 Rockets could beat the 96 Bulls. They couldn't deal with the Twin Towers, and Captain Video (Bill Fitch) would find an answer (like when he put Rodney McCray on a certain place on the court and made him a passer in the 86 WCF. The Lakers didn't adjust).

[HoopsNY]

If you look at 96-98, he never really got back to the first 3peat numbers. 32 on 48% is pretty in line with, and even greater than what he did the second time around.

And this is why he wasn't peak MJ. 1993 MJ was peak MJ. Just look at MJ's turnovers in the '95 playoffs. Not to mention, this was widely spoken of. 25+ years later, we don't get to come along and suddenly deny that the general outlook was that he wasn't the same.

[HoopsNY]

Both teams being healthy? The Bulls probably win in 5. You guys saying the Magic had more talent are wrong. I'd take a fully healthy Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Harped over a fully healthy Shaq, Penny, Scott, Grant, and Anderson. And the Bulls had a better bench.

I think there's a separation between talent and actually being better. A lot of talented teams went nowhere in history. That was a seriously talented team due to their youth and ability.

Having said that, you're absolutely right. The problem here is that haters want to give a fully healthy status to teams like Orlando and then ignore it completely for Chicago. That Chicago team was banged up badly in the postseason and still came through and dominated.

[SATAN]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0895/0864/products/42-39013281_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1451903885

[SaintzFury13]

Greatest team ever? The 86 Celtics, 84 and 87 Lakers, 83 Sixers, and 60's Celtics say hi. Heck, the 86 Rockets could beat the 96 Bulls. They couldn't deal with the Twin Towers, and Captain Video (Bill Fitch) would find an answer (like when he put Rodney McCray on a certain place on the court and made him a passer in the 86 WCF. The Lakers didn't adjust).

Just because the 86 Rockets could beat the Bulls doesn't mean they were the greater team. Basketball is still a game of match ups and some of the greatest teams of all time could still very easily get their shit pushed in the moment they go up against a team that has them beat matchups wise. Yeah, the 86 Rockets could beat the 96 Bulls, but I'm willing to bet they don't stand much of a chance against any of the Spurs teams that had their own version of the Twin Towers. And hell, one of those teams you bring up, the 86 Celtics, are in my opinion the greatest team of all time. But against the 96 Bulls in a seven game series, I'm going with the Bulls. No one on the Celtics could guard MJ (and we know this because we saw MJ drop 49 on them in one game, and then proceed to follow that up with a 63 point effort). Larry Birds slower pace and reliance on skill to score would be easy pickings for Scottie Pippen, and Kevin McHale is going to have his hands full with Dennis Rodman. The 96 Bulls are just stacked across the board defensively. Unless you have a lot of height like the 86 Rockets, you're going to struggle against them.

[DCL]

horace grant has been on a "fvck jordan" crusade ever since the last dance doc.

[Axe]

More talented to the point they got swept by the rockets in the 1995 finals despite having hca? Interesting take op.