View Full Version : So it's bad to tell Lebron to shut up and dribble but okay to tell Kyrie that
3ba11
10-14-2021, 12:12 PM
Lebron can speak his mind and shut down bubble basketball for EVERYONE
that possibility was fine
but Kyrie is a bad person for sitting out himself (everyone else can still play) - he needs to shut up and dribble... :rolleyes:
You guys are fos.. Carry on the fraud and your WWE league that picks winners and losers
Kobe got shut down by Rip Hamilton while Shaq was dominating Ben Wallace.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 12:21 PM
89 Pippen
3ba11
10-14-2021, 12:21 PM
Kobe got shut down by Rip Hamilton while Shaq was dominating Ben Wallace.
It didn't matter what the numbers were because Lakers were running a shit brand of solved basketball (Shaq-ball)
Shaq needed to be the clear-cut Pippen from 2003-forward and then they would've kept winning - Wade wouldn't get to win with Shaq because Kobe/Shaq would still be winning
It didn't matter what the numbers were because Lakers were running a shit brand of solved basketball (Shaq-ball)
Shaq needed to be the clear-cut Pippen from 2003-forward and then they would've kept winning - Wade wouldn't get to win with Shaq because Kobe/Shaq would still be winning
Kobe was taking more shots than Shaq though. Shaq was playing the Pippen role but Clankbe couldn’t stop bricking and airballing
:(
3ba11
10-14-2021, 12:24 PM
Kobe was taking more shots than Shaq though. Shaq was playing the Pippen role but Clankbe couldn’t stop bricking and airballing
:(
The offense still revolved around Shaq.. It was still Shaq's team and it needed to be Kobe's team like Wade had in 06'
89 Pippen
Better than 04 Kobe that’s for sure.
The offense still revolved around Shaq.. It was still Shaq's team and it needed to be Kobe's team like Wade had in 06'
How did it revolve around Shaq if Kobe was taking noticeably more shots per game? Sounds like you’re making excuses for Kobrick clanking so many shots. He might as well have been blindfolded in the 2004 finals, probably would have been just as accurate.
Bronbron23
10-14-2021, 12:27 PM
Lebron can speak his mind and shut down bubble basketball for EVERYONE
that possibility was fine
but Kyrie is a bad person for sitting out himself (everyone else can still play) - he needs to shut up and dribble... :rolleyes:
You guys are fos.. Carry on the fraud and your WWE league that picks winners and losers
Yes. As long as your stance aligns with popular opinion your in the right :oldlol:
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 12:29 PM
The offense still revolved around Shaq.. It was still Shaq's team and it needed to be Kobe's team like Wade had in 06'
Shaq averaged 26/11 on 63% in the finals, Kobe 23 on 38%. Based on that the offense was going where it should have and Kobe hijacked it.
Shaq averaged 26/11 on 63% in the finals, Kobe 23 on 38%. Based on that the offense was going where it should have and Kobe hijacked it.
27/11 actually.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 12:32 PM
27/11 actually.
And 3nut thought the guy shooting 38% for 23ppg should have been controlling the office? Intriguing....
And 3nut thought the guy shooting 38% for 23ppg should have been controlling the office? Intriguing....
Ah but you see it’s rookie LeBron’s fault Kobe bricked so much. I’m not sure how but it just was. Also 89 Pippen.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 12:42 PM
Ah but you see it’s rookie LeBron’s fault Kobe bricked so much. I’m not sure how but it just was. Also 89 Pippen.
But also................09 Mo Williams.
But also................09 Mo Williams.
05 Larry Hughes.
Charlie Sheen
10-14-2021, 12:50 PM
It's a topic for discussion for sure, but you kinda ruined it by constructing it around Lebron's name.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:16 PM
89' Pippen
I'm off 89' Pippen.
I'm onto 90' Pippen now
because the whole time I compared Larry Hughes and Mo Williams to 89' Pippen, I didn't realize they were also superior to 90' Pippen across the board as well (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)
So ultimately, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively - so Lebron had better teams on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan still beat him to titles.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:20 PM
And 3nut thought the guy shooting 38% for 23ppg should have been controlling the office? Intriguing....
Imagine if we forced PG13 to be first option over Kawhi, or Kyrie being 1st option over Lebron in 2016 - those teams would never win - yet that's what the 03' and 04' Lakers did with Shaq/Kobe - the lesser player was still considered 1st option, and it ruined the dynasty..
Then we saw Shaq win as 2nd option under Wade, while Kobe won as 1st option with Pau - so the results prove what I'm saying about 03' and 04' - Kobe should've been top dog those years and they would've won just like they did after those years
SouBeachTalents
10-14-2021, 01:21 PM
Imagine forcing PG13 to be first option over Kawhi, or Kyrie being 1st option over Lebron - those teams would never win - that's what the 03' and 04' Lakers did
As I said in the last thread, Kobe took SEVEN more shots per game than Shaq those playoff runs, which was even slightly more than the difference between Wade & Shaq in ‘06.
As I said in the last thread, Kobe took SEVEN more shots per game than Shaq those playoff runs, which was even slightly more than the difference between Wade & Shaq in ‘06.
Oh shit how will he try to argue this? :lol. I’m guessing he’ll malfunction and copy paste something that doesn’t address your point at all.
ImKobe
10-14-2021, 01:26 PM
Kobe got shut down by Rip Hamilton while Shaq was dominating Ben Wallace.
They played single coverage on Shaq (with Ben Wallace, who's wayyy shorter than him) but his fat ass got tired & turned the ball over & bricked FTs and was also giving up as many points on the other end while the Pistons threw the kitchen sink at Kobe you dumb ****.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:29 PM
As I said in the last thread, Kobe took SEVEN more shots per game than Shaq those playoff runs, which was even slightly more than the difference between Wade & Shaq in ‘06.
Those were forced shots and not part of the offense - the offense was getting the ball to Shaq - Kobe was breaking that offense
Otoh, Wade wasn't breaking the offense when he took more shots than Shaq in 2006 - so the Heat won because they were running the offense, while the 04' Lakers lost because they weren't running the offense (kobe was breaking it) and the offense itself was the wrong offense (that's why kobe was breaking it)
The results speak for themselves - Shaq infact won as 2nd option in 2006, while Kobe won as 1st option in 09' - these things should've happened in 04' (shaq as 2nd option and kobe as top dog)
SouBeachTalents
10-14-2021, 01:36 PM
Those were forced shots and not part of the offense - the offense was getting the ball to Shaq - Kobe was breaking that offense
Otoh, Wade wasn't breaking the offense when he took more shots than Shaq in 2006 - so the Heat won because they were running the offense, while the 04' Lakers lost because they weren't running the offense (kobe was breaking it) and the offense itself was the wrong offense (that's why kobe was breaking it)
The results speak for themselves - Shaq infact won as 2nd option in 2006, while Kobe won as 1st option in 09' - these things should've happened in 04' (shaq as 2nd option and kobe as top dog)
Nah, he was breaking it because he didn't want Shaq to win FMVP over him for a 4th time :lol
Nah, he was breaking it because he didn't want Shaq to win FMVP over him for a 4th time :lol
I like how he admitted Kobe was breaking the offense and forcing shots as if that’s a good thing :lol
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:42 PM
I like how he admitted Kobe was breaking the offense and forcing shots as if that’s a good thing :lol
* Wade won with Shaq in 2006
* Kobe won with Pau won in 2009
CONCLUSION: since a crappier version of Shaq won in 06', while a crappier version of Kobe won in 2009, it's clear that BETTER versions of Kobe/Shaq would've won in 2004 if they simply had the same roles they had in 06' and 09'... The historic FEUD caused loss and destruction of a great dynasty... :confusedshrug:
SouBeachTalents
10-14-2021, 01:44 PM
* Wade won with Shaq in 2006
* Kobe won with Pau won in 2009
CONCLUSION: since a crappier version of Shaq won in 06', while a crappier version of Kobe won in 2009, it's clear that BETTER versions of Kobe/Shaq would've won in 2004 if they simply had the same roles they had in 06' and 09'... :confusedshrug:
You actually think Kobe was better in '04 than in '09 :oldlol:
You actually think Kobe was better in '04 than in '09 :oldlol:
He’s also acting as if basketball is played 2 on 2 (he frequently does this) and acting as if the context of the 04 playoffs was identical to the 06 playoffs. I’m really not sure one could make arguments as bad as 3ball even if they tried.
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 01:49 PM
I'm off 89' Pippen.
I'm onto 90' Pippen now
because the whole time I compared Larry Hughes and Mo Williams to 89' Pippen, I didn't realize they were also superior to 90' Pippen across the board as well (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)
So ultimately, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively - so Lebron had better teams on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan still beat him to titles.
1990 Pippen playoffs: 19/7/6 on 50%; 18.7 PER, .149 WS/48, 5.4 BPM, 1.2 VORP
2009 Mo playoffs: 16/4/3 on 40%; 13.0 PER, .103 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP
Across the board indeed.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:49 PM
You actually think Kobe was better in '04 than in '09 :oldlol:
2003-2004 was Kobe's athletic peak and he was a 3-peat champion (good experience) - the best combination of talent/skill of his career imo
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:54 PM
1990 Pippen playoffs: 19/7/6 on 50%; 18.7 PER, .149 WS/48, 5.4 BPM, 1.2 VORP
2009 Mo playoffs: 16/4/3 on 40%; 13.0 PER, .103 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP
Across the board indeed.
^^^ that's more like 89' Pippen, when Jordan upset the #1 SRS team in the league (Cavs), while Lebron lost to the #4 SRS Magic as the massive favorite.
Jordan upset the #1 SRS Cavs with only 15 on 40% from pippen, while Lebron lost as favorite to the #4 SRS Magic despite 18 on 38% from Mo
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 01:57 PM
^^^ that's more like 89' Pippen, when Jordan upset the #1 SRS team in the league (Cavs), while Lebron lost to the #4 SRS Magic as the massive favorite.
Jordan upset the #1 SRS Cavs with only 15 on 40% from pippen, while Lebron lost as favorite to the #4 SRS Magic despite 18 on 38% from Mo
Lol you're gonna abort the '90 take and go back to '89 then?
You're pathetic :lol
8Ball
10-14-2021, 02:02 PM
89 Pippen
94 Pippen won 55 games.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 02:04 PM
Imagine if we forced PG13 to be first option over Kawhi, or Kyrie being 1st option over Lebron in 2016 - those teams would never win - yet that's what the 03' and 04' Lakers did with Shaq/Kobe - the lesser player was still considered 1st option, and it ruined the dynasty..
Then we saw Shaq win as 2nd option under Wade, while Kobe won as 1st option with Pau - so the results prove what I'm saying about 03' and 04' - Kobe should've been top dog those years and they would've won just like they did after those years
In 2004 Shaq was still dominant enough to have the offense run through him. The fact that he could drop 27/11 63% on Ben and Rasheed Wallace and Kobe dropped 23ppg on 38% proves that situationally, the offense needed to go through Shaq here. Now in some series, you could make a case that maybe Kobe warranted more shots if the situation could be leveraged to the Lakers favor. You don't give MORE shots to the player hitting 38% of them.
In 2006, Shaq was at the very tail end of his prime so yes, it made sense to have Wade carry the offense by then. Especially since, in 2005 and 2006 2nd and 3rd year Wade actually played better against the Pistons than Kobe, smack dead in the middle of his prime, did.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 02:07 PM
94 Pippen won 55 games.
55 wins is a top 1000 peak
Heck, Iggy won 57 games in 2013
And out of all the guys that won 50+ games, only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat - any team pursuing a 4-peat is expected to win a solid amount of games
Otoh, after getting exposed in the 94' Playoffs and the 3-peat luster gone, the 95' Bulls were borderline lottery until MJ returned - so Pippen destroyed a dynasty in less than 2 years.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 02:10 PM
Lol you're gonna abort the '90 take and go back to '89 then?
You're pathetic :lol
89' Pippen and 09' Mo suffered from the same affliction that cratered their playoff stats - BAD BRAND OF BALL
Yet Jordan overcame his sidekick wetting the bed and still upset the #1 SRS team, while Lebron couldn't and lost as massive favorite.
Otoh, 90' Pippen had a more viable playoff offense to help his stats (triangle), so I don't compare the playoff stats to 09' Mo to 90' Pippen.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 02:12 PM
2004 Kobe vs Detroit: 23/3/4 38%( had a better Shaq so less pressure)
2005 Wade vs Detroit: 26/4/4 44%
2006 Wade vs Detroit: 27/6/5 62%( had a worse Shaq so more pressure)
https://c.tenor.com/q67Ve6REXR4AAAAM/the-more-you-know-star.gif
Kobe_Bryant
10-14-2021, 02:13 PM
Kobe got shut down by Rip Hamilton while Shaq was dominating Ben Wallace.
pretty sure prince was defending me and they used help defenders and full court traps. but as usual a lebron fan has no context since he's like me with the wnba. stick to wiki pages kiddo
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 02:15 PM
55 wins is a top 1000 peak
Peak MJ led the Bulls to 55 wins, so 1990 MJ is a top 1000 peak.
https://c.tenor.com/q67Ve6REXR4AAAAM/the-more-you-know-star.gif
8Ball
10-14-2021, 02:26 PM
55 wins is a top 1000 peak
Heck, Iggy won 57 games in 2013
And out of all the guys that won 50+ games, only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat - any team pursuing a 4-peat is expected to win a solid amount of games
Otoh, after getting exposed in the 94' Playoffs and the 3-peat luster gone, the 95' Bulls were borderline lottery until MJ returned - so Pippen destroyed a dynasty in less than 2 years.
Jordan never won 55 games without Pippen.
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 02:28 PM
so I don't compare the playoff stats to 09' Mo to 90' Pippen.
We all know the real reason why you don't.
But in any case...why compare them at all then?
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 02:30 PM
Jordan never won 55 games without Pippen.
He made that one wayyyyyyy too easy.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 02:34 PM
Jordan never won 55 games without Pippen.
He only played without Pippen as a rookie and sophomore, or at 40 years old
But prime Jordan nearly made the Finals with nothing in 89' and took the champs 6 games.. Then he won the 1990 title with very little help, except Pippen's migraine tricked it off
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 02:36 PM
He only played without Pippen as a rookie and sophomore, or at 40 years old
But prime Jordan nearly made the Finals with nothing in 89' and took the champs 6 games.. Then he won the 1990 title with very little help, except Pippen's migraine tricked it off
No he didn't. We don't know for sure that the Bulls win game 7 if Scottie was healthy.
8Ball
10-14-2021, 02:38 PM
Jordan was 24 years old and could not win 55 games.
Bron was 23 and made the finals with a pile of junk comparable to Jordan's Wizards lineup.
8Ball
10-14-2021, 02:38 PM
He only played without Pippen as a rookie and sophomore, or at 40 years old
But prime Jordan nearly made the Finals with nothing in 89' and took the champs 6 games.. Then he won the 1990 title with very little help, except Pippen's migraine tricked it off
Jordan didn't win any titles in 1990.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 02:38 PM
We all know the real reason why you don't.
But in any case...why compare them at all then?
09' Mo > 90' Pippen across the board in the regular season, while the Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense (19th for Bulls) - so Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball and the league favorite, yet Jordan beat him to titles.
Ultimately, shit brands can win 66 in the entertainment regular season when teams fly in one night and out the next with zero adjustments.. but it gets exposed in the playoffs - 09' Mo and 89' Pippen suffered from this in the playoffs (weak brand)
HoopsNY
10-14-2021, 02:38 PM
1-9
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
10-14-2021, 02:47 PM
Nobody said Kyrie doesn't have a choice.
Just know that it comes with a consequence. Here, in this case, its his employer cutting ties.
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 02:51 PM
09' Mo > 90' Pippen across the board in the regular season, while the Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense (19th for Bulls) - so Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball and the league favorite, yet Jordan beat him to titles.
Ultimately, shit brands can win 66 in the entertainment regular season when teams fly in one night and out the next with zero adjustments.. but it gets exposed in the playoffs - 09' Mo and 89' Pippen suffered from this in the playoffs (weak brand)
When do regular season numbers matter and when do playoff numbers matter when comparing 2 players? And when does a specific series matter?
That's just..your call based on the situation I guess?
3ba11
10-14-2021, 03:09 PM
When do regular season numbers matter and when do playoff numbers matter when comparing 2 players? And when does a specific series matter?
That's just..your call based on the situation I guess?
89' Pippen and 09' Mo played similarly in the playoffs (except Mo's team had FAR better defense), yet Jordan upset the #1 SRS, while Lebron lost to the #4 SRS as the massive favorite.
So we don't need to look at the 90' Playoffs because we already have Pippen's debacle in 89' - this was a tougher situation that MJ overcame, while Lebron failed with 09' Mo
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 03:14 PM
89' Pippen and 09' Mo played similarly in the playoffs (except Mo's team had FAR better defense), yet Jordan upset the #1 SRS, while Lebron lost to the #4 SRS as the massive favorite.
So we don't need to look at the 90' Playoffs because we already have Pippen's debacle in 89' - this was a tougher situation that MJ overcame, while Lebron failed with 09' Mo
You're the one who brought up '90. And you're the one who doesn't ever seem to care about what happens in the regular season aside from this specific instance.
RogueBorg
10-14-2021, 03:27 PM
3ball ain't wrong here folks.
Bronbron23
10-14-2021, 03:42 PM
Lebron can speak his mind and shut down bubble basketball for EVERYONE
that possibility was fine
but Kyrie is a bad person for sitting out himself (everyone else can still play) - he needs to shut up and dribble... :rolleyes:
You guys are fos.. Carry on the fraud and your WWE league that picks winners and losers
It's a bit different i think. Bron wasn't potentially throwing away a season and a likely championship. It is crazy how everyone is mad with kyrie when they should be upset with these government mandates. Sheep gonnq be sheep though. Been like that forever. The person is smart. People as a group are idiots.
SaintzFury13
10-14-2021, 04:41 PM
They played single coverage on Shaq (with Ben Wallace, who's wayyy shorter than him) but his fat ass got tired & turned the ball over & bricked FTs and was also giving up as many points on the other end while the Pistons threw the kitchen sink at Kobe you dumb ****.
No they didn't. They provided single coverage on Kobe just like they did on Shaq. In fact they literally outright stated what their intention was. They knew Prince would be more than capable of slowing down Kobe and that Bryant would be baited into taking terrible shots with the one man coverage. He fell right into their trap time and time again without even realizing it.
SaintzFury13
10-14-2021, 04:43 PM
The offense still revolved around Shaq.. It was still Shaq's team and it needed to be Kobe's team like Wade had in 06'
Buddy, if Kobe Bryant was taking more shots than Shaq, then the offense clearly didn't revolve around Shaq. Just stop already.
Now with that said, I am going to actually take this moment to criticize LeBron for a moment. For once, 3ball actually has brought up a good point. LeBron really did need to "shut up and dribble" (even though the person who told him that is an idiot). LeBron has made a bad habit of forcing his involvement into matters he has no business being part of. He has major influence and he takes advantage of that far more than he should. Sometimes he needs to just stay away from the political aspect of the real world and just focus on his brand of basketball. And when he doesn't, he takes things way too far like he did with the "YOU'RE NEXT" bullshit he tried to pull on that police officer.
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