Why were Jordan/Kobe so dependent on Phil Jackson and no top 3 SRS teams?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I'm not asking for them to win rings every season but it just seems like they were massive failures without Phil Jackson. They both have never led a top 3 SRS team without Phil Jackson coaching. Only time Kobe did it was 1998 and he only started 1 game that season. Jordan never did it in the 1980s.

Kobe failed in 2005, 2012, 2013 to make his team a top 3 SRS team.

Jordan failed in the 1980s to make his team a top 3 SRS team.

I mean kawhi switched coaches with Ty Lue and clippers were still a dominant regular season team and top 3 SRS. What's Jordan and Kobe problem? Their teams should be a lock for top 3 SRS every single season regardless of the coach, that's what kawhi always does.

[Phoenix]

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?

[SouBeachTalents]

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?
That's a good point. The Spurs won 50 games 12 years in a row, plus 4 championships, before Kawhi was drafted. The Raptors won 50 games 3 years in a row, and for good measure, 50 in a shortened season the year after Kawhi left. Hell, even the Clippers were at 48 wins the year before Kawhi joined and that was without PG, so easily another 50 win caliber team. Some stacked ass teams Kawhi's played for, and just 1 title against an injury depleted team in the last 7 years :(

[Phoenix]

That's a very good point. The Spurs had won 50 games 12 seasons in a row, plus 4 championships, before Kawhi was drafted, while the Raptors won 50 3 years in a row, and for good measure, 50 in a shortened season the year after he left. Hell, even the Clippers were at 48 wins and that was without PG. Some stacked ass teams Kawhi's played on

IIRC( because I looked up this info last week in reply to one of that idiot's posts), the Spurs won 61 games the year before Kawhi joined. The Raptors won 59 games in 2018. The Clips won 48 as you said without a single all-star or all-NBA player.

I'd like to see Kawhit join a 20 win team and get them to the playoffs, let alone seriously compete for a title.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?

Lowry\Siakam = 2 combined all nba teams

Lowry/Siakam 2021 season = couldn't even make the play in tournament in weak eastern conference

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?

Lowry\Siakam = 2 combined all nba teams

Lowry/Siakam 2021 season = couldn't even make the play in tournament in weak eastern conference

why is luka so dependent on always losing to kawhi? does he look forward to that every year?

[Phoenix]

Lowry\Siakam = 2 combined all nba teams

Lowry/Siakam 2021 season = couldn't even make the play in tournament in weak eastern conference

why is luka so dependent on always losing to kawhi? does he look forward to that every year?

Let's try again....

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?

Since your reply doesn't address my question, and you're deflecting your weak arguments to Luka as if he 'shouldn't' be beating a 22 year old with 3 years experience, then repeating my question is really the only reply needed.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

That's a good point. The Spurs won 50 games 12 years in a row, plus 4 championships, before Kawhi was drafted. The Raptors won 50 games 3 years in a row, and for good measure, 50 in a shortened season the year after Kawhi left. Hell, even the Clippers were at 48 wins the year before Kawhi joined and that was without PG, so easily another 50 win caliber team. Some stacked ass teams Kawhi's played for, and just 1 title against an injury depleted team in the last 7 years :(

The 3 years prior to drafting Kawhi from 2009-2011: Spurs won a total of 7 playoff games. That's an average of 2.3 playoff games won per year :(

Clippers prior to kawhi were a laughing stock that allowed a 125+ offensive rating in the playoffs :(

Raptors couldn't even make the play in tournament last season in the weak east despite having 3 of the title teams rotation players :(

[Phoenix]

What do you suppose Kawhit does with a 20 win team like the Cavs a few years ago? :yaohappy:

Two championships won with teams that averaged 60 wins before he joined.

[Phoenix]

2021: Kawhi gets injured in the playoffs, team goes further than with him in 2020

:roll::roll::roll:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Let's try again....

Why is Kawhi so dependent on joining 59+ win teams for every championship he's won?

Since your reply doesn't address my question, and you're deflecting your weak arguments to Luka as if he 'shouldn't' be beating a 22 year old with 3 years experience, then repeating my question is really the only reply needed.

They were in a very weak eastern conference but they failed to even win 1 single playoff game outside of the 1st round, so they were irrelevant pieces of turds.

Now explain this:

2020-21 Toronto Raptors
SRS: -0.54 (19th of 30)
Record: 27-45, Finished 12th in NBA Eastern Conference

[HBK_Kliq_2]

What do you suppose Kawhit does with a 20 win team like the Cavs a few years ago? :yaohappy:

Two championships won with teams that averaged 60 wins before he joined.

Cavs had a #1 draft pick superstar Kyrie Irving dominating in the finals and putting up massively better stats then Lowry in 2019 did.

2010 heat won 47 games + added Chris Bosh

[Phoenix]

They were in a very weak eastern conference but they failed to even win 1 single playoff game outside of the 1st round, so they were irrelevant pieces of turds.

Now explain this:

2020-21 Toronto Raptors
SRS: -0.54 (19th of 30)
Record: 27-45, Finished 12th in NBA Eastern Conference

Explain this
2020 Clips- Kawhit, 6-22, 7'1 Brian Windhorst, no conference finals
2021 Clips- No Kawhit, conference finals

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2021: Kawhi gets injured in the playoffs, team goes further than with him in 2020

:roll::roll::roll:

Kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares or Paul George would of been fishing after the 1st round like he has done the last five years.

[Phoenix]

Cavs had a #1 draft pick superstar Kyrie Irving dominating in the finals and putting up massively better stats then Lowry in 2019 did.

2010 heat won 47 games + added Chris Bosh

The Cavs never won 40 games with Kyrie till Lebron got there, and still made the finals after he left.:yaohappy:

What's Kyrie up to nowadays, BTW? :lol

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Explain this
2020 Clips- Kawhit, 6-22, 7'1 Brian Windhorst, no conference finals
2021 Clips- No Kawhit, conference finals

Bubble basketball inside of a prison on plastic toys r us hoops with no fans

kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares, that's his conference finals run. The rest of the guys were just role players

[Phoenix]

Kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares or Paul George would of been fishing after the 1st round like he has done the last five years.

2020 Clips- Kawhit, 6-22, 7'1 Brian Windhorst, no conference finals
2021 Clips- No Kawhit, conference finals

[Phoenix]

Bubble basketball inside of a prison on plastic toys r us hoops with no fans

kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares, that's his conference finals run. The rest of the guys were just role players

Everyone was playing in the same bubble and subject to the same conditions. Kawhit wasn't quite good enough to get his team over the hump. :(

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The Cavs never won 40 games with Kyrie till Lebron got there, and still made the finals after he left.:yaohappy:

What's Kyrie up to nowadays, BTW? :lol

Kyrie had one of the greatest seasons of all time in 2021 with nets, they had a 121 offensive rating with him on court, 124.7 offensive rating with him on the court in the playoffs.

Celtics 2019 irving would of led them to the finals but he ran into giannis. Not everybody can play against Avery Bradley as their toughest competition like Lebron 2017

[SouBeachTalents]

2021: Kawhi gets injured in the playoffs, team goes further than with him in 2020

:roll::roll::roll:
https://media4.giphy.com/media/dJtoGmnupA00QaJitW/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611896fdc1c4873486a10dea39e6dd9 fe5f7fc128d2&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Terance Mann did what Kawhi could not the year before. With a chance to clinch a trip to the conference finals

Kawhi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EjZZLJwteY

Mann


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioTMmK34ibc

[Phoenix]

PG13 with Kawhit in the playoffs 2020: 20/6/4 40%
PG13 in the conference finals without Kawhit 2021: 29/10/6 42%

The Kawhit effect :(

[HBK_Kliq_2]

When kawhi was luka's age, he was whopping LeBron's ass up and down the south beach streets.

24PPG on 69% FG for 3 straight wins and 10x better defense then luka.

Alpha kawhi doesn't allow a young guy to dominate him like lebron did in 2014.

[Phoenix]

Kyrie had one of the greatest seasons of all time in 2021 with nets, they had a 121 offensive rating with him on court, 124.7 offensive rating with him on the court in the playoffs.

Celtics 2019 irving would of led them to the finals but he ran into giannis. Not everybody can play against Avery Bradley as their toughest competition like Lebron 2017

2018 Celtics without Kyrie: Game 7 conference finals
2019 Celtics with Kyrie: Out in 5 second round

2019 Nets with Kyrie: 8-12
2019 Nets without Kyrie: 27-25

[HBK_Kliq_2]

PG13 with Kawhit in the playoffs 2020: 20/6/4 40%
PG13 in the conference finals without Kawhit 2021: 29/10/6 42%

The Kawhit effect :(

Losing by 30 points in game 6 on your home court. You're right, that was the kawhi effect.

[Phoenix]

When kawhi was luka's age, he was whopping LeBron's ass up and down the south beach streets.

24PPG on 69% FG for 3 straight wins and 10x better defense then luka.

Alpha kawhi doesn't allow a young guy to dominate him like lebron did in 2014.

Luka didn't join a 61 win team.

[Phoenix]

Losing by 30 points in game 6 on your home court. You're right, that was the kawhi effect.

6/22. You're right, the Kawhit effect

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2018 Celtics without Kyrie: Game 7 conference finals
2019 Celtics with Kyrie: Out in 5 second round

2019 Nets with Kyrie: 8-12
2019 Nets without Kyrie: 27-25

Like I said Celtics played mvp prime Giannis or they make finals that season.

Nets also always had a 120+ offensive rating with Irving on court last season and he played far more games then Durant did.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Luka didn't join a 61 win team.

7 total playoff wins in the 3 years prior to drafting kawhi. Its not kawhi's fault that luka doesn't play defense. That's why you average 33 and still always lose.

[Phoenix]

Like I said Celtics played mvp prime Giannis or they make finals that season.

Nets also always had a 120+ offensive rating with Irving on court last season and he played far more games then Durant did.

Like I said

2018 Celtics without Kyrie: Game 7 conference finals
2019 Celtics with Kyrie: Out in 5 second round

2019 Nets with Kyrie: 8-12
2019 Nets without Kyrie: 27-25

A proven record of making teams worse. :applause:

[Phoenix]

7 total playoff wins in the 3 years prior to drafting kawhi. Its not kawhi's fault that luka doesn't play defense. That's why you average 33 and still always lose.

At least he didn't drop 6/22 and lose with a better team without fans to provide pressure. :yaohappy:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Like I said

2018 Celtics without Kyrie: Game 7 conference finals
2019 Celtics with Kyrie: Out in 5 second round

2019 Nets with Kyrie: 8-12
2019 Nets without Kyrie: 27-25

A proven record of making teams worse. :applause:

Weren't nets just the #2 seed with him playing more games then Durant?

Didn't Celtics just regress last season and barely even make the play in tournament in the weak east??

[HBK_Kliq_2]

At least he didn't drop 6/22 and lose with a better team without fans to provide pressure. :yaohappy:

47 win team + hall of famer Chris bosh + lebron

But when they play kawhi? They are still the south bitch talents

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/dJtoGmnupA00QaJitW/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611896fdc1c4873486a10dea39e6dd9 fe5f7fc128d2&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Terance Mann did what Kawhi could not the year before. With a chance to clinch a trip to the conference finals

Kawhi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EjZZLJwteY

Mann


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioTMmK34ibc

47 win team + hall of famer Chris bosh + lebron

But when they play kawhi? They are still the south bitch talents

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi 2014 finals mvp = south bitch talents

[SouBeachTalents]

47 win team + hall of famer Chris bosh + lebron

But when they play kawhi? They are still the south bitch talents
They're actually NBA champs in large part due to Kawhi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M9PjZzqXKg

[Phoenix]

Weren't nets just the #2 seed with him playing more games then Durant?

Didn't Celtics just regress last season and barely even make the play in tournament in the weak east??

You think that was due to Kyrie when he needed 'personal' time off every other week? :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

47 win team + hall of famer Chris bosh + lebron

But when they play kawhi? They are still the south bitch talents

Kinda like when Kawhit plays 7'1 Windhorst.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Phil didn't really do much. he just implemented tex winters offense. and the triangle inhibited me and Mike more than it helped individually. all it did was help the guys around us. because when you don't have a superteam with 3 #1 options you need a system that benefits guys that can't create their own shot. when you have guys like wade, bosh, Allen, kyrie, love, Davis, Westbrook etc.. you can go without a structured offense.

I broke the triangle and went 1 on 5 most times when I was attacking.

and maybe if the league didn't veto Chris paul I win a few titles without Phil. but we got a broken old nash instead so I had to rip my Achilles filling in for him all year at point

[Phoenix]

2015 Spurs when Kawhit is the first option: out in the first round

Kawhit is what I would call 'situationally' great. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Phil didn't really do much. he just implemented tex winters offense. and the triangle inhibited me and Mike more than it helped individually. all it did was help the guys around us. because when you don't have a superteam with 3 #1 options you need a system that benefits guys that can't create their own shot. when you have guys like wade, bosh, Allen, kyrie, love, Davis, Westbrook etc.. you can go without a structured offense.

I broke the triangle and went 1 on 5 most times when I was attacking.

and maybe if the league didn't veto Chris paul I win a few titles without Phil. but we got a broken old nash instead so I had to rip my Achilles filling in for him all year at point
True, Kobe was due to finally play with some talent after having prime Shaq for 8 years

[Phoenix]

Threadcliffs:

- Joins 61 win team, wins title 2 years later
- Joins 59 win team, KD injured, wins title
- No fans, no pressure, 6/22, 7'1 Brian Windhorst etc
- Gets injured, 2nd option plays better without him and teams advances
- Singular rabid stan deflects by constantly bringing up a 3rd year player

Barely top 40 TBH :(

[SouBeachTalents]

Threadcliffs:

- Joins 61 win team, wins title 2 years later
- Joins 59 win team, KD injured, wins title
- No fans, no pressure, 6/22, 7'1 Brian Windhorst etc
- Gets injured, 2nd option plays better without him and teams advances
- Singular rabid stan deflects by constantly bringing up a 3rd year player

Barely top 40 TBH :(
Don't forget missing a FT to clinch the title, choking in Games 6 & 7 in 2015 and losing with a 67 win team in the 2nd round in 2016.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Phil didn't really do much. he just implemented tex winters offense. and the triangle inhibited me and Mike more than it helped individually. all it did was help the guys around us. because when you don't have a superteam with 3 #1 options you need a system that benefits guys that can't create their own shot. when you have guys like wade, bosh, Allen, kyrie, love, Davis, Westbrook etc.. you can go without a structured offense.

I broke the triangle and went 1 on 5 most times when I was attacking.

and maybe if the league didn't veto Chris paul I win a few titles without Phil. but we got a broken old nash instead so I had to rip my Achilles filling in for him all year at point

The triangle offense was always something good to fall back on when you have a chucker like yourself.

Also it wasn't just the triangle, it was Phil's presence. He's papa, he's your daddy. You literally died like 5 years later without him in your life. There's something about Phil's presence that just comforts you. Notice Lakers were still a top 3 SRS team in 2011 with phil, you fell off the face of the earth in the 2012/2013/2005 seasons without Phil.

I don't know what it is, his yoga shit his weed or just his voice. Something about him oozes your confidence and swagger. You're a gutless worm without him. I think you can say the same thing about Pau Gasol with and without Phil Jackson as well. Phil is just the ultimate people's person and the ultimate leader. He's the goat coach. Shaq also had 0 finals wins or anything that memorable in the 1990s without Phil.

[Phoenix]

Don't forget missing a FT to clinch the title, choking in Games 6 & 7 in 2015 and losing with a 67 win team in the 2nd round in 2016.

Yep, that ranking may have been too high then. Top 50ish......maaaaaaybe.

[Phoenix]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeepyPortlyBoilweevil-size_restricted.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/hVTouq08miyVo1a21m/giphy.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

The triangle offense was always something good to fall back on when you have a chucker like yourself.

Also it wasn't just the triangle, it was Phil's presence. He's papa, he's your daddy. You literally died like 5 years later without him in your life. There's something about Phil's presence that just comforts you. Notice Lakers were still a top 3 SRS team in 2011 with phil, you fell off the face of the earth in the 2012/2013/2005 seasons without Phil.

I don't know what it is, his yoga shit his weed or just his voice. Something about him oozes your confidence and swagger. You're a gutless worm without him. I think you can say the same thing about Pau Gasol with and without Phil Jackson as well. Phil is just the ultimate people's person and the ultimate leader. He's the goat coach. Shaq also had 0 finals wins or anything that memorable in the 1990s without Phil.
Beating Jordan is pretty memorable

[Phoenix]

Phil didn't really do much. he just implemented tex winters offense. and the triangle inhibited me and Mike more than it helped individually. all it did was help the guys around us. because when you don't have a superteam with 3 #1 options you need a system that benefits guys that can't create their own shot. when you have guys like wade, bosh, Allen, kyrie, love, Davis, Westbrook etc.. you can go without a structured offense.

I broke the triangle and went 1 on 5 most times when I was attacking.

and maybe if the league didn't veto Chris paul I win a few titles without Phil. but we got a broken old nash instead so I had to rip my Achilles filling in for him all year at point


The triangle offense was always something good to fall back on when you have a chucker like yourself.

Also it wasn't just the triangle, it was Phil's presence. He's papa, he's your daddy. You literally died like 5 years later without him in your life. There's something about Phil's presence that just comforts you. Notice Lakers were still a top 3 SRS team in 2011 with phil, you fell off the face of the earth in the 2012/2013/2005 seasons without Phil.

I don't know what it is, his yoga shit his weed or just his voice. Something about him oozes your confidence and swagger. You're a gutless worm without him. I think you can say the same thing about Pau Gasol with and without Phil Jackson as well. Phil is just the ultimate people's person and the ultimate leader. He's the goat coach. Shaq also had 0 finals wins or anything that memorable in the 1990s without Phil.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-30-2017/eqWFFS.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The things Kobe accomplished without papa Phil holding his hand:

- chucking up airballs in the playoffs against Utah in the 1990s

-raping a girl at some hotel

- missing playoffs in 2005

- not being elite reg season team in 2012 or 2013

-tearing his achiles in 2013

- being an irrelevant piece of shit from 2014-16 even though Durant easily returned from the same injury

- being so irresponsible he drove a helicopter in weather that wasn't fit for driving and ended up killing himself, his daughter and 5+ other people

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Beating Jordan is pretty memorable

That was like beating bubble kawhi. It was nice but obviously not the same guy we know.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://youtu.be/8fi6rswEovg

4:15 me beating the hell out of Kenneth in this thread and breaking his nose

Kblaze "kenneth's face is a mess"

Teach you to disrespect kawhi

[Kobe_Bryant]

https://youtu.be/8fi6rswEovg

4:15 me beating the hell out of Kenneth in this thread and breaking his nose

Kblaze "kenneth's face is a mess"

Teach you to disrespect kawhi

you do realize that the spurs basically ran a triangle style offense right. you know kawhi played for them

[SATAN]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/newreply.php?p=14338675&noquote=1

[Axe]

Op says raptors are trash, even though they're not the one who blew a 3-1 lead in the semifinals.

[000]

How come Kawhi never averaged 19+ against a healthy Finals team? Crazy.

[000]

The things Kobe accomplished without papa Phil holding his hand:

- chucking up airballs in the playoffs against Utah in the 1990s

-raping a girl at some hotel

- missing playoffs in 2005

- not being elite reg season team in 2012 or 2013

-tearing his achiles in 2013

- being an irrelevant piece of shit from 2014-16 even though Durant easily returned from the same injury

- being so irresponsible he drove a helicopter in weather that wasn't fit for driving and ended up killing himself, his daughter and 5+ other people
Wait. Forget my last post.:rockon:

[2much_knowledge]

Started as one topic, ended being another leonard shrine in disguise

[dankok8]

MJ had terrible supporting casts in years Phil wasn't coaching him. Kobe was already in decline when Phil left and had just one healthy prime season without Phil which was 2011-2012. Terrible thread again by the OP...