Why did Kobe need 6 Finals to win one FMVP? What was he waiting for?

[ELITEpower23]

Historic pain
--------------------
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2002 Shaq
2004 Billups
2008 Pierce
2009 Gasol/Kobe

[Gohan]

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So tell me this, do you think god is proud of your borderline bron worship?
Turn back to god no matter how pathetic your life is, he is the way

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Busy being Shaq's bitch or taking his anger out on white girls at hotels

[Gohan]

Busy being Shaq's bitch or taking his anger out on white girls at hotels

Lets be real kobe didnt have to rape her. Kobe was a very handsome dude she was willing i bet

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lets be real kobe didnt have to rape her. Kobe was a very handsome dude she was willing i bet

That's what makes it despicable. Kobe could get any girl he wanted. He just felt the need to force himself on a girl without even talking to her because he's an asshole and he was angry\jealous about Shaq's finals MVPS.

[Kobe_Bryant]

well in 2000 I wasn't good enough yet

in 2001 I could have easily won finals mvp if shaq didn't hijack the offense gunning for it. I carried us all year and for the first 3 rounds

ditto for 2002. remember "if you feed the dog the dog won't guard the house?"

2004 I was feuding with Shaq and coming off knee and shoulder surgery. we lost Malone and Payton wasn't hitting shots. we had no role players that could shoot so I was forced to jack up bad shots when Shaq wouldn't come over from.the weak side to establish position soon enough in the shot clock due to full court traps. Larry brown admitted he let Shaq get his and double teamed only me. so we had no chance

2008 bynum and Ariza were hurt and we lost to a colluded big 3

so I shoulda won 2 at the very least and 4 overall.

if there was a playoff mvp like in hockey maybe Shaq would have had to actually earn his trophies and I might have won it in 2008 even in a losing effort.

its all circumstances

[Gohan]

well in 2000 I wasn't good enough yet

in 2001 I could have easily won finals mvp if shaq didn't hijack the offense gunning for it. I carried us all year and for the first 3 rounds

ditto for 2002. remember "if you feed the dog the dog won't guard the house?"

2004 I was feuding with Shaq and coming off knee and shoulder surgery. we lost Malone and Payton wasn't hitting shots. we had no role players that could shoot so I was forced to jack up bad shots when Shaq wouldn't come over from.the weak side to establish position soon enough in the shot clock due to full court traps. Larry brown admitted he let Shaq get his and double teamed only me. so we had no chance

2008 bynum and Ariza were hurt and we lost to a colluded big 3

so I shoulda won 2 at the very least and 4 overall.

if there was a playoff mvp like in hockey maybe Shaq would have had to actually earn his trophies and I might have won it in 2008 even in a losing effort.

its all circumstances

You got what you deserved in 2004 for full court trapping iverson every posession in 2001

[TheCorporation]

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Trash poster



So tell me this, do you think god is proud of your borderline bron worship?
Turn back to god no matter how pathetic your life is, he is the way

Says the guy that has Allen Iverson in his top 5 :lol

[000]

Kobes FMVPs are both tainted

2009 Gasol outscores everyone on the other team + jameer nelson injured
2010 Gasol leads the league in playoff winshares:eek:

+ he shouldve been locked up in 2004

[Axe]

2/7

[Gohan]

Says the guy that has Allen Iverson in his top 5 :lol

Nah you cant be top 5 without a chip, hes top 10 though

[Axe]

Says the guy that has Allen Iverson in his top 5 :lol
You're also op, slick? :ohwell:

[000]

Nah you cant be top 5 without a chip, hes top 10 though
iverson isnt top 50

[Gohan]

iverson isnt top 50

Its not good to be delusional

[000]

Its not good to be delusional
Okay okay. I admit implying he was in the top 100 was a bit crazy

[Gohan]

Okay okay. I admit implying he was in the top 100 was a bit crazy

Where do you rank lebron then? Outside the top 200 in the nba? He had to win his championships after iverson retired. He didnt want to see iverson in the playoffs

[Axe]

Where do you rank lebron then? Outside the top 200 in the nba? He had to win his championships after iverson retired. He didnt want to see iverson in the playoffs
:roll:

[000]

Where do you rank lebron then? Outside the top 200 in the nba? He had to win his championships after iverson retired. He didnt want to see iverson in the playoffs
Actually, yeah. Lebum is a total bum.

[ImKobe]

Because Shaq had the favorable Finals match-up in the first 3 when Kobe would have had at least 1 FMVP if they played their toughest opponent in the Finals and not out West.

[Phoenix]

in 2001 I could have easily won finals mvp if shaq didn't hijack the offense gunning for it. I carried us all year and for the first 3 rounds

2004 I was feuding with Shaq and coming off knee and shoulder surgery. we lost Malone and Payton wasn't hitting shots. we had no role players that could shoot so I was forced to jack up bad shots when Shaq wouldn't come over from.the weak side to establish position soon enough in the shot clock due to full court traps. Larry brown admitted he let Shaq get his and double teamed only me. so we had no chance



- 'You' carried the team all year? The Lakers were 11-3 in the games you missed.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-record-without-kobe-in-2001

- 'and for the first 3 round'

First round vs Blazers: Shaq 27/16(48%), Kobe 25/4(48%)
Second round vs Kings: Shaq 33/17(60%), Kobe 35/9(47%)

"Shaq was carried"

- Shaq 'hijacking' the offense in the 2001 finals led to a chip. 'You' hijacking the offense in the 2004 finals.....didn't.

- Chauncey Billips is also on record as saying the decision to double 'you' was a psychological move to force 'you' into trying to beat it, because if the Lakers won 'you' wanted the FMVP( watch from 3:10). 'You' pretty much got played and getting conned into hero ball at the expense of the team result is why 'you're' fringe top 10:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjXSQJd6tJM

[Kobe_Bryant]

Kobes FMVPs are both tainted

2009 Gasol outscores everyone on the other team + jameer nelson injured
2010 Gasol leads the league in playoff winshares:eek:

+ he shouldve been locked up in 2004

I led the 2001 playoffs in winshares. guess I'm better than peak shaq. you can now call me the MDE and 2001 MVP for our title

[Kobe_Bryant]

- 'You' carried the team all year? The Lakers were 11-3 in the games you missed.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-record-without-kobe-in-2001

- 'and for the first 3 round'

First round vs Blazers: Shaq 27/16(48%), Kobe 25/4(48%)
Second round vs Kings: Shaq 33/17(60%), Kobe 35/9(47%)

"Shaq was carried"

- Shaq 'hijacking' the offense in the 2001 finals led to a chip. 'You' hijacking the offense in the 2004 finals.....didn't.

- Chauncey Billips is also on record as saying the decision to double 'you' was a psychological move to force 'you' into trying to beat it, because if the Lakers won 'you' wanted the FMVP( watch from 3:10). 'You' pretty much got played and getting conned into hero ball at the expense of the team result is why 'you're' fringe top 10:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjXSQJd6tJM

Chauncey Billups called me the most skilled player ever

and wait. I thought whoever was the best in the series carried the other guy even if he contributed nearly as much. don't you remember your 2001 and 2002 finals arguments that Shaq carried me. my stats were solid. so if I outscored Shaq in early rounds I carried him by default. your logic

btw during those series Shaq called me the best player on the planet by far

[Phoenix]

Chauncey Billups called me the most skilled player ever

and wait. I thought whoever was the best in the series carried the other guy even if he contributed nearly as much. don't you remember your 2001 and 2002 finals arguments that Shaq carried me. my stats were solid. so if I outscored Shaq in early rounds I carried him by default. your logic

btw during those series Shaq called me the best player on the planet by far

That wasn't the point( Kobe being the most skilled). It's also about application of skill. Kobe is arguably more skilled than MJ( it seems to be a common opinion) but ultimately the less effective player over his career because of how he applied his skills. And, per the 2004 finals MVP, it was the Pistons estimation that Kobe would get caught up trying to outshine Shaq so they doubled him anticipating that he would try to score against the double teams as opposed to taking greater advantage of Shaq's single coverage. Remember in earlier arguments when you said media/board rankings shouldn't matter, just the players? Ok....so here's a player, not the media, not ISH, telling you exactly what strategy was used with respects to Kobe. So does his opinion count, or no? Your logic.

You bringing up stuff like Shaq calling Kobe the best player in 2001 doesn't detract from the point that the Pistons played on Kobe's main weakness in 2004, trying to prove he could score against all odds regardless of whether it was the best tactical choice. 2004 wasn't even a great season for Kobe anyway given the circumstances going on, so even less reason for him to 'hijack' the offense when Shaq is there dropping 27/63% on the Pistons frontline.

Is it part of your schtick to make blatantly dumb arguments? Two players scoring within 2 points of each other isn't a carry job as far as production. So no, Shaq scoring 33 and Kobe scoring 35, just talking about scoring production, isn't a carry job. Shaq scoring 38 and Kobe 16 in 2000? Shaq scoring 36 and Kobe 25 in 2001? Shaq scoring 36 and Kobe 27 in 2002? Those are carry jobs.

[RRR3]

I’m not sure why Kenny continues to argue with people who are clearly smarter and better at debating than him. It’s just sad to watch him get eviscerated. Or at least it would be sad if he wasn’t a sociopath who deserves it.

[Kobe_Bryant]

That wasn't the point( Kobe being the most skilled). It's also about application of skill. Kobe is arguably more skilled than MJ( it seems to be a common opinion) but ultimately the less effective player over his career because of how he applied his skills. And, per the 2004 finals MVP, it was the Pistons estimation that Kobe would get caught up trying to outshine Shaq so they doubled him anticipating that he would try to score against the double teams as opposed to taking greater advantage of Shaq's single coverage. Remember in earlier arguments when you said media/board rankings shouldn't matter, just the players? Ok....so here's a player, not the media, not ISH, telling you exactly what strategy was used with respects to Kobe. So does his opinion count, or no? Your logic.

You bringing up stuff like Shaq calling Kobe the best player in 2001 doesn't detract from the point that the Pistons played on Kobe's main weakness in 2004, trying to prove he could score against all odds regardless of whether it was the best tactical choice. 2004 wasn't even a great season for Kobe anyway given the circumstances going on, so even less reason for him to 'hijack' the offense when Shaq is there dropping 27/63% on the Pistons frontline.

Is it part of your schtick to make blatantly dumb arguments? Two players scoring within 2 points of each other isn't a carry job as far as production. So no, Shaq scoring 33 and Kobe scoring 35, just talking about scoring production, isn't a carry job. Shaq scoring 38 and Kobe 16 in 2000? Shaq scoring 36 and Kobe 25 in 2001? Shaq scoring 36 and Kobe 27 in 2002? Those are carry jobs.

no. I was the less effective player because

1. I didn't have alien hands

2. I couldn't just jump over anyone at any time

3. I couldn't just run past anyone at any time

4. I didn't have a defensive minded team full of betas that only wanted what was best for me and a sidekick that was happy being #2

5. I didn't have all the shots I wanted from day one

6. I didn't play in an era where the guys matching up with me on the wing were half as good or half as athletic aside from maybe 2 guys

7. I didn't have nearly perfect health to avoid constant major injuries every year that required surgery

8. I didn't have clear out rules that could have kept it a 1 on 1

9. I didn't have another elite ball handler to bring the ball up so I could rest and wait for an entry pass in the post and have all my legs under me. I had to be the one pushing it against a full court trap

10. I had to go through a rebuilding process instead of just leaving for a few years so my team could reload without my contract dragging them down


2004 was an anomaly due to many circumstances.

1. my rape trial f*cked us all year

2. I had knee and shoulder surgery which hurt my athleticism

3. we had zero chemistry

4. Malone was hurt

5. Payton didn't fit

6. we had no shooters

7. Phil blamed me for his daughter's rape

8. the Pistons were hungrier

9. Larry brown had a full court trap to drain our shot clock so shaq couldn't get set up early which forced me to create



anyone else in my shoes either goes down shooting over double teams or goes down passing to bums like devean George for a bail out shot. Shaq sabotaged me and wouldn't come over from the weak side when I had the ball. he never fought for offensive rebounds. it was basically a no win situation. the Pistons had 5 guys and we had 2 with a dozen problems. it was destined to fail and it turned out for the best. without 2004 going the way it did I never get my own team. and that gifted us 2 more rings. if we kept Shaq we don't win in 2009 or 2010. even in 2006 the heat needed the refs to win that one. Shaq averaged 13ppg as a 3rd option role player. so we top out at 4 titles with all finals mvps going to Shaq. that's not great. 2004 is a blessing to me

[Phoenix]

no. I was the less effective player because

1. I didn't have alien hands

2. I couldn't just jump over anyone at any time

3. I couldn't just run past anyone at any time

4. I didn't have a defensive minded team full of betas that only wanted what was best for me and a sidekick that was happy being #2

5. I didn't have all the shots I wanted from day one

6. I didn't play in an era where the guys matching up with me on the wing were half as good or half as athletic aside from maybe 2 guys

7. I didn't have nearly perfect health to avoid constant major injuries every year that required surgery

8. I didn't have clear out rules that could have kept it a 1 on 1

9. I didn't have another elite ball handler to bring the ball up so I could rest and wait for an entry pass in the post and have all my legs under me. I had to be the one pushing it against a full court trap

10. I had to go through a rebuilding process instead of just leaving for a few years so my team could reload without my contract dragging them down


2004 was an anomaly due to many circumstances.

1. my rape trial f*cked us all year

2. I had knee and shoulder surgery which hurt my athleticism

3. we had zero chemistry

4. Malone was hurt

5. Payton didn't fit

6. we had no shooters

7. Phil blamed me for his daughter's rape

8. the Pistons were hungrier

9. Larry brown had a full court trap to drain our shot clock so shaq couldn't get set up early which forced me to create



anyone else in my shoes either goes down shooting over double teams or goes down passing to bums like devean George for a bail out shot. Shaq sabotaged me and wouldn't come over from the weak side when I had the ball. he never fought for offensive rebounds. it was basically a no win situation. the Pistons had 5 guys and we had 2 with a dozen problems. it was destined to fail and it turned out for the best. without 2004 going the way it did I never get my own team. and that gifted us 2 more rings. if we kept Shaq we don't win in 2009 or 2010. even in 2006 the heat needed the refs to win that one. Shaq averaged 13ppg as a 3rd option role player. so we top out at 4 titles with all finals mvps going to Shaq. that's not great. 2004 is a blessing to me

All I read was 'no, I was the less effective player because'. Fullstop....whatever your contoured up reasons are for why doesn't change the basic fact of the matter. He was less effective....and more prone to getting conned like in 2004. Fringe top 10 at best.

[Kobe_Bryant]

I’m not sure why Kenny continues to argue with people who are clearly smarter and better at debating than him. It’s just sad to watch him get eviscerated. Or at least it would be sad if he wasn’t a sociopath who deserves it.


your commentary is like Tom heinsohn on Celtics broadcasts.

and I still dunno who this ken guy is. I haven't seen him post here yet.

[Kobe_Bryant]

All I read was 'no, I was the less effective player because'. Fullstop....whatever your contoured up reasons are for why doesn't change the basic fact of the matter.

rrr3. this is your superior debater lol

"tl;dnr"

classic

[Phoenix]

rrr3. this is your superior debater lol

"tl;dnr"

classic

You're not debating. Just a litany of dumb excuses for every flaw in Kobe's game or performance. It's not like I can't comb point by point the stupid shit you say. It's more like......how much energy have you deluded yourself into thinking you're worth when you have a schtick based on a dead person's spirit? You're past the point of talking to like a rationale person. The CIA really does need to track you because this ain't shit a freely moving person should be doing.

[Kobe_Bryant]

You're not debating. Just a litany of dumb excuses for every flaw in Kobe's game or performance. It's not like I can't comb point by point the stupid shit you say. It's more like......how much energy have you deluded yourself into thinking you're worth when you have a schtick based on a dead person's spirit? You're past the point of talking to like a rationale person. The CIA really does need to track you because this ain't shit a freely moving person should be doing.

so I'm not allowed to defend myself?


so jordan can't use the excuse that his body wasn't ready in 95 when he lost to Orlando? he can't blame management for their breakup after 98. Jordan can't retire cause of a hand injury. wizards Jordan wasn't too old? young MJ didn't have enough help or the right coach?.

lebron didn't face tough finals opponents? lebron didn't have groin and ankle problems? lebron didn't have a teammate forget to lay the ball up? lebron didn't have injured teammates in 2015?

neither of these fan bases ever said any of these things?

I've never once told someone I'm debating "too long didn't read" or "meltdown" or "you can't use excuses" because I'm not a lazy uneducated hypocrite like yourself

[Phoenix]

so I'm not allowed to defend myself?


so jordan can't use the excuse that his body wasn't ready in 95 when he lost to Orlando? he can't blame management for their breakup after 98. Jordan can't retire cause of a hand injury. wizards Jordan wasn't too old? young MJ didn't have enough help or the right coach?.

lebron didn't face tough finals opponents? lebron didn't have groin and ankle problems? lebron didn't have a teammate forget to lay the ball up? lebron didn't have injured teammates in 2015?

neither of these fan bases ever said any of these things?

I've never once told someone I'm debating "too long didn't read" or "meltdown" or "you can't use excuses" because I'm not a lazy uneducated hypocrite like yourself

And you're a micro-dicked p*ussy no getting bitch pretending to be the spirit of a dead person. Congrats, we insulted each other on the internet. Anything else?

[Kobe_Bryant]

And you're a micro-dicked p*ussy no getting bitch pretending to be the spirit of a dead person. Congrats, we insulted each other on the internet. Anything else?

rrr3. come scrape your guy off the pavement lol

[Phoenix]

rrr3. come scrape your guy off the pavement lol

How cute, this c*nt thinks he won sumthin' :oldlol:

Impersonating Kobe's spirit to give your useless existence meaning. Winning!

[8Ball]

Kobe played next to the MDE so he could never sniff 1 MVP vote when playing next to Shaq.

How do you get votes when your best player is averaging 35/14 in the finals?

[Kobe_Bryant]

Kobe played next to the MDE so he could never sniff 1 MVP vote when playing next to Shaq.

How do you get votes when your best player is averaging 35/14 in the finals?

why couldn't he ever do that vs the blazers, kings or spurs

[TheCorporation]

- 'You' carried the team all year? The Lakers were 11-3 in the games you missed.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-record-without-kobe-in-2001

- 'and for the first 3 round'

First round vs Blazers: Shaq 27/16(48%), Kobe 25/4(48%)
Second round vs Kings: Shaq 33/17(60%), Kobe 35/9(47%)

"Shaq was carried"

- Shaq 'hijacking' the offense in the 2001 finals led to a chip. 'You' hijacking the offense in the 2004 finals.....didn't.

- Chauncey Billips is also on record as saying the decision to double 'you' was a psychological move to force 'you' into trying to beat it, because if the Lakers won 'you' wanted the FMVP( watch from 3:10). 'You' pretty much got played and getting conned into hero ball at the expense of the team result is why 'you're' fringe top 10:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjXSQJd6tJM

Body • bagged