Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #28

[dankok8]

List

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - Oscar Robertson
#14 - Jerry West
#15 - Moses Malone
#16 - Julius Erving
#17 - Kevin Durant
#18 - Kevin Garnett
#19 - Karl Malone
#20 - Dirk Nowitzki
#21 - Charles Barkley
#22 - David Robinson
#23 - Dwyane Wade
#24 - Elgin Baylor
#25 - Scottie Pippen
#26 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
#27 - John Havlicek
#28 - VOTING NOW

Top 50 Player Pool

For an updated player pool and vote breakdowns see the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing).

Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.

Opening Vote Tally

Isiah Thomas - 7 (Nike D'Antoni, Chick Stern, Round Mound, BigShotBob, Gudo, L. Kizzle, Lebron_James)
Kawhi Leonard - 4 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2, Honor Boost, Round Mound)
Chris Paul - 3 (1987_Lakers, Overdrive, TheCorporation)
Bob Cousy - 1 (Magic is Magic)
Bob Pettit - 1 (000)
James Harden - 1 (LBJ)

[dankok8]

I got Isiah for this one and then probably Pettit next. Guys like Reed, Cowens and Ewing should be getting some love soon too along with the votes already in.

[RRR3]

Wait why are you still counting Nike D’antonis votes lmao? He blatantly trolled. This is clearly Chris Paul unless you can find me another player with 16 seasons of being a star and more than half of those years being a superstar while maintaining a high level of play in the playoffs. Longevity mattered for Karl Malone but not CP3 to you weirdos huh

[dankok8]

Wait why are you still counting Nike D’antonis votes lmao? He blatantly trolled. This is clearly Chris Paul unless you can find me another player with 16 seasons of being a star and more than half of those years being a superstar while maintaining a high level of play in the playoffs. Longevity mattered for Karl Malone but not CP3 to you weirdos huh

It's not really longevity when the guy is injured in half of his playoff runs! :lol

[RRR3]

It's not really longevity when the guy is injured in half of his playoff runs! :lol
If you’re going to troll about players and ignore blatant attempts to tamper with the results, I call into question your fitness to oversee the project.

[Phoenix]

What's the feeling on Harden as a top 30 player?

[RRR3]

What's the feeling on Harden as a top 30 player?
Not enough longevity or playoff success to put him over CP3 imo. Not seeing what the argument for separating Karl Malone and CP3 by this much is, it’s very inconsistent considering I know people are just not voting for CP3 cuz he hasn’t won a ring. At some point you’re just voting for people who were objectively worse at basketball than he was with worse longevity to boot.

[1987_Lakers]

Weird how Nike Dantoni's vote is counted, but TheCorporation's vote for CP3 in the last thread isn't.

[dankok8]

Weird how Nike Dantoni's vote is counted, but TheCorporation's vote for CP3 in the last thread isn't.

I counted TheCorporation's vote. What do you mean?

I didn't count any of Nike D'Antoni's alt accounts that were pointed out to me but I counted his one main vote.

[1987_Lakers]

What's the feeling on Harden as a top 30 player?

He will probably be my vote after CP3 & Pettit.

But Nash, Barry & Ewing also deserve consideration for top 30.

[1987_Lakers]

I counted TheCorporation's vote. What do you mean?

I didn't count any of Nike D'Antoni's alt accounts that were pointed out to me but I counted his one main vote.
My mistake, just waking up.

[RRR3]

I counted TheCorporation's vote. What do you mean?

I didn't count any of Nike D'Antoni's alt accounts that were pointed out to me but I counted his one main vote.
Why should his main vote count when he’s trolling?

[Phoenix]

Not enough longevity or playoff success to put him over CP3 imo. Not seeing what the argument for separating Karl Malone and CP3 by this much is, it’s very inconsistent considering I know people are just not voting for CP3 cuz he hasn’t won a ring. At some point you’re just voting for people who were objectively worse at basketball than he was with worse longevity to boot.

He's been a legit top 10 player for a good 8 years now, I think that's decent longevity. His well-chronicled playoff flameouts are what's giving me pause. I'm leaning CP3 but Harden is floating around in the back of my head...


He will probably be my vote after CP3 & Pettit.

But Nash, Barry & Ewing also deserve consideration for top 30.

Yeah, we're kind of in that space again where there's like 7 or 8 names that can legitimately be voted in but only half the number of spaces left.

[RRR3]

OP wanted to rank Karl Malone higher than he was ranked and when I pointed out Malone’s level of play declined massively in the playoffs I was met with excuses and “but longevity”. However OP is refusing to rank CP3 over Isiah despite his legendary longevity and productivity, and called CP3 a choker in another thread despite CP3 maintaining his production level in the playoffs and actually increasing his scoring. I submit that OP cannot be taken seriously about CP3.

[RRR3]

He's been a legit top 10 player for a good 8 years now, I think that's decent longevity. His well-chronicled playoff flameouts are what's giving me pause. I'm leaning CP3 but Harden is floating around in the back of my head...



Yeah, we're kind of in that space again where there's like 7 or 8 names that can legitimately be voted in but only half the number of spaces left.
CP3 has been great for 16 years, and all time great for ~10 that’s enough for me. Despite what people think he’s maintained his level of play in the playoffs and likely would have beat the GOAT team and won a ring if he hadn’t got hurt in 2018.

[Phoenix]

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/98/df/0b/98df0b2dfb8831c2aef7b5fbd7c93710--jim-carrey-movie-quotes.jpg

I shall meditate on this and revert shortly :lol

[ELITEpower23]

CP3 easily...

Highly skilled, two way player

[Manny98]

CP3

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kawhi.

Doesn't have the longevity some of these other players got, but has a number of years being an elite 2 way. Solid resume too. 2 chips, 2 2 DPOY, 13 All-NBA/defensive selections, and an all-time great playoff run...en-route to a FMVP.

That being said, I wouldn't argue with anyone taking CP3. He's been great for a longass time.

[1987_Lakers]

Kawhi.

Doesn't have the longevity some of these other players got, but has a number of years being an elite 2 way. Solid resume too. 2 chips, 2 2 DPOY, 13 All-NBA/defensive selections, and an all-time great playoff run...en-route to a FMVP.

That being said, I wouldn't argue with anyone taking CP3. He's been great for a longass time.

I understand that peak Kawhi is a legit superstar and all, but it just feels weird to put a guy who hasn't even played 600 regular season games and has only 11,000 career total points ahead of guys like CP3 & Pettit.

[RRR3]

Kawhi.

Doesn't have the longevity some of these other players got, but has a number of years being an elite 2 way. Solid resume too. 2 chips, 2 2 DPOY, 13 All-NBA/defensive selections, and an all-time great playoff run...en-route to a FMVP.

That being said, I wouldn't argue with anyone taking CP3. He's been great for a longass time.
Kawhi has at most 7 years as a star and that’s generous. CP3 has been a star his entire career.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I understand that peak Kawhi is a legit superstar and all, but it just feels weird to put a guy who hasn't even played 600 regular season games and has only 11,000 career total points ahead of guys like CP3 & Pettit.


Kawhi has at most 7 years as a star and that’s generous. CP3 has been a star his entire career.

Kawhi's longevity hurts him, but he's highly accomplished in-terms of accolades and honors. He's got the better peak play too.

How many years does one gotta have for their longevity not to be questioned? I understand voting for Chris Paul, but I think its close depending on what you value.

[Phoenix]

I'll go CP3.

[RRR3]

Kawhi's longevity hurts him, but he's highly accomplished in-terms of accolades and honors. He's got the better peak play too.

How many years does one gotta have for their longevity not to be questioned? I understand voting for Chris Paul, but I think its close depending on what you value.
Kawhi has never played on a team that wouldn’t have won 50 games without him, his team accomplishments need to be contextualized. I would agree he peaked higher but it wasn’t by much and his longevity is very poor in comparison to CP3’s. Additionally he has had good luck (2019 ball bouncing in) while CP3 has had bad luck (injury in 2018) when it comes to rings

[Airupthere]

I would not mind Isiah, CP3, or Ewing for the next spot.

[Phoenix]

Kawhi has at most 7 years as a star and that’s generous. CP3 has been a star his entire career.

Extremely. His first all-NBA season was in 2016, 2018 he was injured. High two way peak but no MVPs, and if people are going to shit on Giannis for the injuries clearing a path last year, in fairness the Raptors aren't winning in 2019 if KD doesn't go down. And as you said, he's never played on a team that wasn't at least 'decent' without him. Yes he puts them over the top, but he's not a guy you build your franchise around due to his total absence of leadership intangibles.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kawhi has never played on a team that wouldn’t have won 50 games without him, his team accomplishments need to be contextualized. I would agree he peaked higher but it wasn’t by much and his longevity is very poor in comparison to CP3’s. Additionally he has had good luck (2019 ball bouncing in) while CP3 has had bad luck (injury in 2018) when it comes to rings

I'd argue most champions have a bit of luck. Be it with njuries to the opposing team, a bail out by another teammate, a lucky bounce, whatever.

Also think if you replaced '19 Kawhi with Chris Paul, the Raptors don't ring. I mean, that would be fairly obvious because of their team makeup, but likewise pretty telling given what Kawhi brings on both ends.

What Paul has going for him is the consistent play. A bit injury prone himself, but if you need a guy to get you to the playoffs, he's definitely more stable in that regard. I like his intangibles a little more as well, leadership being at the forefront.

[Lebron23]

Bob Pettit

[000]

Cp3 over harden lol, are you guys serious? call me when cp3 wins MVP and takes a ref-helped superteam to 7 as the main star

[RRR3]

Cp3 over harden lol, are you guys serious? call me when cp3 wins MVP and takes a ref-helped superteam to 7 as the main star
^Didnt watch 2018 WCF

[SouBeachTalents]

CP3

[000]

Also what is this "longevity" stuff all about? Cp3 stopped leading the league in anything* at 30yo while Harden was still a scoring leader at that age.

*aside from ft%

[RRR3]

Also what is this "longevity" stuff all about? Cp3 stopped leading the league in anything* at 30yo while Harden was still a scoring leader at that age.

*aside from... ft%
That’s not how you measure it Lmaoooo.

[Phoenix]

Also what is this "longevity" stuff all about? Cp3 stopped leading the league in anything* at 30yo while Harden was still a scoring leader at that age.

*aside from ft%

Harden didn't start leading the league in scoring till his 9th season. CP3 was leading in assists AND steals in his 3rd year when he was 22.

[1987_Lakers]

Also what is this "longevity" stuff all about? Cp3 stopped leading the league in anything* at 30yo while Harden was still a scoring leader at that age.

*aside from ft%

Chris Paul was an All-Star level caliber player well into his 30's. The moment he joined Houston at age 32 they immediately became title contenders, he took a shitty OKC team to the playoffs in 2020 and at 35 he finished 5th in the MVP voting and led Phoenix to the Finals. Besides Steve Nash & Stockton, CP3's resume in his 30's is more impressive than every PG in history, sorry but that was a dumb post.

[gonzaldo]

Isiah

[francesco totti]

Isiah Thomas

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah Thomas

[dankok8]

Final Vote Tally

Isiah Thomas - 11 (Nike D'Antoni, Chick Stern, Round Mound, BigShotBob, Gudo, L. Kizzle, Lebron_James, dankok8, gonzaldo, francesco totti, ClipperRevival)
Chris Paul - 8 (1987_Lakers, Overdrive, TheCorporation, RRR3, ELITEpower23, Manny98, Phoenix, SouBeachTalents)
Kawhi Leonard - 5 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2, Honor Boost, Round Mound, kuniva_dAMiGhTy)
Bob Cousy - 1 (Magic is Magic)
Bob Pettit - 1 (Lebron23)
James Harden - 1 (000)

Isiah wins. Thread #29 is now open.