Which scenario will result in a better Laker team?

[3ba11]

Many 3rd options averaged 20 ppg and still dominated when needed like Manu, Jrue Holiday, Worthy, Ray Allen, or Klay Thompson - this was possible because the 1st options on their teams weren't excessively ball-dominant and didn't turn them into spot-up shooters.

So the "bad fit" with Westbrook is a skill deficit because Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill/off-ball production capability, so he's forced to stay on-ball and reduce Westbrook to spot-up role.

It's hilarious because the media is getting exposed for ignoring Lebron's flaw of ball-dominance even though Westbrook is literally throwing it in their faces... :yaohappy:

[SATAN]

1-9

[StrongLurk]

Lebron > Kobe/MJ

[ShawkFactory]

What does AD do in this scenario? If Lebron and Westbrook are both 25 PPG or so guys what happens to his 27?

Can the Lakers trust Westbrook to make good decisions and sufficiently utilize both of those guys to their potential, particularly at the end of games?

The answer is Westbrook being a 15/7/7 role player. As long as he understands and executes that role while still bringing that end to end energy

[3ba11]

What does AD do in this scenario? If Lebron and Westbrook are both 25 PPG or so guys what happens to his 27?

Can the Lakers trust Westbrook to make good decisions and sufficiently utilize both of those guys to their potential, particularly at the end of games?

The answer is Westbrook being a 15/7/7 role player. As long as he understands and executes that role while still bringing that end to end energy


Many 3rd options averaged 20 ppg and still dominated when needed like Manu, Jrue Holiday, Worthy, Ray Allen, or Klay Thompson - this was possible because the 1st options on their teams weren't excessively ball-dominant and didn't turn them into spot-up shooters.

So the "bad fit" with Westbrook is a skill deficit because Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill/off-ball production capability, so he's forced to stay on-ball and reduce WestPippen to spot-up role

It's hilarious because the media is getting exposed for ignoring Lebron's flaw of ball-dominance even though Westbrook is literally throwing it in their faces...

[ShawkFactory]

Many 3rd options averaged 20 ppg and still dominated when needed like Manu, Jrue Holiday, Worthy, Ray Allen, or Klay Thompson - this was possible because the 1st options on their teams weren't excessively ball-dominant and didn't turn them into spot-up shooters.

So the "bad fit" with Westbrook is a skill deficit because Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill/off-ball production capability, so he's forced to stay on-ball and reduce WestPippen to spot-up role

It's hilarious because the media is getting exposed for ignoring Lebron's flaw of ball-dominance even though Westbrook is literally throwing it in their faces...

Nope. None of those guys ever averaged 20 a game as 3rd options

And who says Westbrook couldn’t play well when needed?

You asked would the lakers be better letting Westbrook be Westbrook or by letting Lebron run the team and Westbrook do like 15/7/7 (which is low for what he’ll actually do) while still being energetic. That latter is obviously how the lakers will be better.

[Airupthere]

Lebron will never sacrifice his stats. He cant get to rings so he will load up on the stats instead.

[3ba11]

Nope. None of those guys ever averaged 20 a game as 3rd options

And who says Westbrook couldn’t play well when needed?

You asked would the lakers be better letting Westbrook be Westbrook or by letting Lebron run the team and Westbrook do like 15/7/7 (which is low for what he’ll actually do) while still being energetic. That latter is obviously how the lakers will be better.



Klay, Worthy, and Kyrie averaged 20 ppg as 3rd option and still dominated when needed - this was possible because the 1st options on their teams weren't excessively ball-dominant and didn't turn them into spot-up shooters.

So the "bad fit" with Westbrook is a skill deficit because Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill/off-ball production capability, so he's forced to stay on-ball and reduce WestPippen to spot-up role

It's hilarious because the media is getting exposed for ignoring Lebron's flaw of ball-dominance even though Westbrook is literally throwing it in their faces...

[AirBonner]

Jaylen Brown is a better pure shooter than MJ

[3ba11]

Lebron will never sacrifice his stats. He cant get to rings so he will load up on the stats instead.


He doesn't need to sacrifice stats - he just needs to be capable of averaging 30 off-ball like MJ did

Jordan's elite jumpshooting skill and pure scoring ability made him a goat assist target off-ball - so alongside Jordan's off-ball 30, Westbrook would be his normal self at 30/10/10 or something close - Lakers would be 6/6 UNSTOPPABLE

[Airupthere]

He doesn't need to sacrifice stats - he just needs to be capable of averaging 30 off-ball like MJ did

Jordan's elite jumpshooting skill and pure scoring ability made him a goat assist target off-ball - so alongside Jordan's off-ball 30, Westbrook would be his normal self at 30/10/10 or something close

His outside shots were dropping yesterday. I dont think that is sustainable for him. I dont see lebron playing offball either so forget about being efficient at offball. He needs the numbers, rebs, asts etc.

[ShawkFactory]

Klay, Worthy, and Kyrie averaged 20 ppg as 3rd option and still dominated when needed - this was possible because the 1st options on their teams weren't excessively ball-dominant and didn't turn them into spot-up shooters.

So the "bad fit" with Westbrook is a skill deficit because Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill/off-ball production capability, so he's forced to stay on-ball and reduce WestPippen to spot-up role

It's hilarious because the media is getting exposed for ignoring Lebron's flaw of ball-dominance even though Westbrook is literally throwing it in their faces...

And what do they all have in common?

Hint: they wouldn’t struggle to score 20 as third options with Lebron either.

[3ba11]

His outside shots were dropping yesterday. I dont think that is sustainable for him. I dont see lebron playing offball either so forget about being efficient at offball. He needs the numbers, rebs, asts etc.


His shots were dropping but almost none of them were contested as usual - so he's living off reputation - teams will start to force him to drive once they realize he's lost a step and prefers jumpshooting.

Furthermore, his "lull the defense to sleep" approach allows the defense to rest, so they have more energy for offense - rested defenses are the norm against all ball-dominators, which is why teams typically get hot against ball-domination as the series progresses

[3ba11]

And what do they all have in common?

Hint: they wouldn’t struggle to score 20 as third options with Lebron either.


The historical record says different - Bosh, Love, Jamison, Ingram, Hughes, Kuzma, IT, Clarkson - they all say hi

So the historical record says that no 3rd option can average 20 alongside Bron and his ball-dominance (inability to produce off-ball) destroys guys (can't elevate most player types)

[ShawkFactory]

Because you said so?

The historical record says different - Bosh, Love, Jamison, Ingram, Hughes, Kuzma, IT, Clarkson - they all say hi

So the historical record says that no 3rd option can average 20 alongside Bron and his ball-dominance (inability to produce off-ball) destroys guys (can't elevate most player types)

Lol I’ve never met a more textbook pot calling the kettle black scenario.

But no. It’s because they’re all great shooters/finishers. You always talk about how Lebron destroys spotty-shooting ball handlers...which none of those guys are. So they don’t meet your criteria, and based on how they play and how Lebron plays would do just fine.

The reality is, spotty-shooting ball handlers are always going to have their numbers go down when they go from a bad/mediocre team to a good/great one. Basketball 101

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

The voting shows that ISH thinks 4 > 5

They think that Lebron getting 25 and Westbrook 15 > Lebron getting 25 and Westbrook 20

[AirBonner]

Jaylen brown is a better shooter than MJ

[3ba11]

Jaylen brown is a better shooter than MJ


Magic prefers option B in the OP poll:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mXVIT_C-0uQ&t=02m28s

"they're going to need Westbrook's point production"


/thread

[3ba11]

I'll go ahead and bump this thread after Lebron craters Westbrook to like 12/5/4 on 41% or something

He might not get anywhere near 17 ppg

[RRR3]

Westbrook wasn’t star level last year why would he suddenly be star level if LeBron let him have the ball more?

[3ba11]

Westbrook wasn’t star level last year why would he suddenly be star level if LeBron let him have the ball more?


23/10/10 isn't star level??

[Gohan]

Iverson> lebron

[RRR3]

23/10/10 isn't star level??
TS%: 50.9%
League TS%: 57.2%










:yaohappy:





Couldn’t even make the all star team in the weaker conference either.

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd2GgvXt3SM

:bowdown:

[3ba11]

TS%: 50.9%
League TS%: 57.2%










:yaohappy:





Couldn’t even make the all star team in the weaker conference either.


^^^ Pippen had the same efficiency splits but half the production across the board (pts, rebs, ast)

So MJ won 6 chips with half a Westbrook as his sidekick

[RRR3]

^^^ Pippen had the same efficiency splits but half the production across the board (pts, rebs, ast)
Why are you lying? Pippen was above league average efficiency for his career. Pippen was also a great defense. WB is a bad defender.

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg



Why are you lying? Pippen was above league average efficiency for his career.


Not even close - Pippen had the worst playoff efficiency ever

So MJ won 6 chips with half a Westbrook as his sidekick

[RRR3]

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg





Not even close - Pippen had the worst playoff efficiency ever

So MJ won 6 chips with half a Westbrook as his sidekick
Pointless to argue with someone who just lies.

[ShawkFactory]

The historical record says different - Bosh, Love, Jamison, Ingram, Hughes, Kuzma, IT, Clarkson - they all say hi

So the historical record says that no 3rd option can average 20 alongside Bron and his ball-dominance (inability to produce off-ball) destroys guys (can't elevate most player types)

I’ll go ahead and quote you from your other thread:


Great shooters like Kyrie and Mo have always been okay next to Lebron

So you agree with what I pointed out :applause:

The three guys you mentioned (Kyrie, Klay, Worthy) all did well as third options (and would also do well with Lebron; as you stated above) because they are elite shooters.

In reality, spotty-shooting ball handlers are never going to maximize their production when they’re third options. No one actually can do that but elite shooters have a better chance. Basketball 101

[Phoenix]

Many 3rd options averaged 20 ppg and still dominated when needed like Manu, Jrue Holiday, Worthy, Ray Allen, or Klay Thompson -

When did Ray Allen average 20 as a third option?

[Phoenix]

I'll go ahead and bump this thread after Lebron craters Westbrook to like 12/5/4 on 41% or something

He might not get anywhere near 17 ppg

He'll drop like 17/7/7. Lebron is going to average 7-8 assists( like Harden did in 2020 with Westbrook) so Westbrook will do about the same with the Lakers. Lebron and AD between them will grab about 18 rebounds so it's not likely Westbrook will rebound like he has most of the last 5 years.

Westbrook is going to get alot of his numbers with the 2nd unit, which would be the best usage for him since his style of play doesn't work next to Lebron. But when Bron is sitting, let him loose.

[RRR3]

When did Ray Allen average 20 as a third option?
When the voices in his head told him so

[imdaman99]

Take it from me, Westbrook has never been efficient except barely when on the Rockets with 4 shooters surrounding him. So if he can do 15-18 pts 7-10 rebs 10 asts, they'll be fine. Just do what Rondo was doing on the Celtics in their championship run. I know it's easier said than done, but I'm sure he can do it.

[RRR3]

Take it from me, Westbrook has never been efficient except barely when on the Rockets with 4 shooters surrounding him. So if he can do 15-18 pts 7-10 rebs 10 asts, they'll be fine. Just do what Rondo was doing on the Celtics in their championship run. I know it's easier said than done, but I'm sure he can do it.
That’s not true he was generally above league average efficiency from 2011-2017. Forgetting how to shoot FTs ruined his game.

[Phoenix]

That’s not true he was generally above league average efficiency from 2011-2017. Forgetting how to shoot FTs ruined his game.

Yeah exactly what the hell happened with that? How do you go from 82% over the first decade to shooting 65% two of the last four seasons?

[LeCola]

The best way that trio works should be like that:

Westbrook should dominate the ball except for the clutch time and play for averaging triple-double again.

Lebron should sacrifice his assist/rebound stats and play for the scoring title.

Lebron should play off-ball offence more:
- He sometimes should play like a spot-up shooter and attempt 8-10 3pt shots per game
- He should play pick&roll, pick&pop and handoff as screener with Westbrook a lot
- He should leave defensive rebounds to Westbrook and run offense fast for the transition offence

Lakers should keep Davis fresh at the end of games. They should create possessions for him to make him use his post moves at the clutch time.

[PP34Deuce]

This team more than ever is reliant on coaching. Certain guys shouldn't be in the rotation with other players.

Rondo and Westbrook is a No No. Both are the same type of guy with Rondo being a better decision maker.

For all the flack Lebron gets, he's more likely to adjust his game from Slasher to a decent 3 point shooter plus being a high post passer.

Melo is Melo. If he's made his first 3 shots, you ride him in the second unit. If he's bricking, you have to put a quick hook on him

You have to hope Avery Bradley can stay healthy because he's their best 3 and D guy next to Monk. Bazemore is inconsistent but he plays hard.

I'm not sold on THT except for garbage time and when the team has a lead for the second unit.

Howard is truly good for the playoffs. The focus isn't there in regular season. DJ Has looked better. THey need another stretch big.

[getting_old]

Lebron will never sacrifice his stats. He cant get to rings so he will load up on the stats instead.


he won't even get off the court when he is deservedly and truly exhausted

[ImKobe]

Obviously the 2nd option. That's how Bron & Wade could co-exist in Miami and win championships. Doesn't mean that Lebron has to be off-ball full-time but the Lakers need more ball movement with WB initiating the offense so they can get the floor spacing that they need.

[3ba11]

When did Ray Allen average 20 as a third option?


2008 Finals

No one in the world thinks he's above pre-injury KG

[Phoenix]

2008 Finals

No one in the world thinks he's above pre-injury KG

Ok, so one series. And your contention is that no Lebron-led team has ever had a third option average 20?

[3ba11]

Obviously the 2nd option. That's how Bron & Wade could co-exist in Miami and win championships. Doesn't mean that Lebron has to be off-ball full-time but the Lakers need more ball movement with WB initiating the offense so they can get the floor spacing that they need.


^^^ that's how you get peak production out of Westbrook and you make it work by letting Lebron and AD be the goat assist targets that close the possessions (high assisted rates) like forwards are supposed to have (AD already has high assisted rate; only lebron has low assisted rate by co-dominating the ball with Westbrook)

Ideally, Lebron would still dominate the ball some, but nowhere near where he was in Game 1.

However, the Lakers are forced to let Lebron dominate the ball because he can't produce elitely any other way - so it's better to sacrifice Westbrook's stats than Lebron's

[Phoenix]

Ok, so one series. And your contention is that no Lebron-led team has ever had a third option average 20?

3ball?

[Hey Yo]

He doesn't need to sacrifice stats - he just needs to be capable of averaging 30 off-ball like MJ did

Jordan's elite jumpshooting skill and pure scoring ability made him a goat assist target off-ball - so alongside Jordan's off-ball 30, Westbrook would be his normal self at 30/10/10 or something close - Lakers would be 6/6 UNSTOPPABLE

MJ avg. 30 in his 19th season?

[ImKobe]

^^^ that's how you get peak production out of Westbrook and you make it work by letting Lebron and AD be the goat assist targets that close the possessions (high assisted rates) like forwards are supposed to have (AD already has high assisted rate; only lebron has low assisted rate by co-dominating the ball with Westbrook)

Ideally, Lebron would still dominate the ball some, but nowhere near where he was in Game 1.

However, the Lakers are forced to let Lebron dominate the ball because he can't produce elitely any other way - so it's better to sacrifice Westbrook's stats than Lebron's

Lebron has to dominate the ball in crunch time obviously but WB is going to play 30-35 minutes at least so he should get the ball-handling duties early in the game and obviously they're going to have either of the 2 on at all times to stagger minutes which should make this work. Also with Rondo there they have 3 ball-handlers who can all make plays so there's lots of potential for that offense if done right, I do think they have better 3PT shooting than last yr overall so as long as they can get right on D they'll be in the Finals or in the WCF at least.

[NBAGOAT]

You don’t get peak production from everyone isn’t always optimal. You don’t want peak production out of Westbrook anymore as this isn’t mvp Westbrook from 2017 and he’s not efficient. Even when he was putting up monstrous numbers at times the past 2 years, his teams did not play well without harden or Beal on the court. Vice versa those teams did well when it was just harden and Beal on the court. Harden at least should’ve gotten the ball even more and taken some of Westbrook’s touches.

He doesn’t have the shooting or other skills to be great offball and is a negative defender. Lebron you can criticize for his offball play all you want he still does 10 times more as a screener lol and cuts much more and can make open 3s. As your main on ball creator, he’s fine but not close to a championship 1st option anymore so ofc you rather lebron dominate the ball. Westbrook is there to win some games when lebron or ad sits and make the bench unit suck less and take over a game sometimes. He can do better than 15/7 but he’s not scoring over 20 this year and shouldn’t.