MJ scored more because he shot more?.. Of course.. but he shot more because he COULD

[3ba11]

It's harder to get off 30 shots if a player needs to dribble for half the shot clock for each shot, so it's only practical for pure scorers with elite jumpshooting skill to be high volume players.. For high scoring performances, it helps ball movement and winning for teammates to find the hot hand/quick score rather than wait for a ball-dominator to score over and over.

The stats confirm the impracticality of having a ball-dominator with high volume because Lebron's ball-dominance wins less at higher volumes than Jordan's mix of on-ball and off-ball.. Specifically, when Lebron scores 33 or more, his regular season record or win percentage is worse (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron%27s+record+when+scoring+33+points+or+ more+career) than Jordan's (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=jordan%27s+record+when+scoring+33+points+or+ more+career) - so that shows how Jordan's scoring style was more optimal for winning (since it won more at higher scoring amounts, aka 33+).. Additionally, it's clear that 33+ is the level that Jordan's scoring power takes over the power of extra defensive rebounds or ball-dominance (assists).

[TheCorporation]

Thread bomb in 3...2...1...

MJ scored more because he shot more?.. Of course.. but he shot more because he HAD PIPPEN as his top producer of REB, AST, STL and BLK.

Pippen was the Championship Bull's top producer while MJ was a strong scorer like Iverson that under produced.

[AirBonner]

MJ shot the most when he lost the most. Interesting.

[000]

Specifically, when Lebron scores 33 or more, his regular season record or win percentage is worse (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron%27s+record+when+scoring+33+points+or+ more+career) than Jordan's (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=jordan%27s+record+when+scoring+33+points+or+ more+career)
71% vs 72%...?

[AirBonner]

71% vs 72%...?

Uff backfire

[RogueBorg]

Thread bomb in 3...2...1...

MJ scored more because he shot more?.. Of course.. but he shot more because he HAD PIPPEN as his top producer of REB, AST, STL and BLK.

Pippen was the Championship Bull's top producer while MJ was a strong scorer like Iverson that under produced.

And yet not once when watching them play did you think Pippen was better than Jordan.

[TheCorporation]

And yet not once when watching them play did you think Pippen was better than Jordan.

1993 ECF
1994 entire year
1995 entire year
1996 Finals

To name a few

[2much_knowledge]

1993 ECF
1994 entire year
1995 entire year
1996 Finals

To name a few

1994? Gotta check those Pippen Baseball stats!!

[Airupthere]

1993 ECF
1994 entire year
1995 entire year
1996 Finals

To name a few

Do you think that giving Pippen the chance to just focus on scoring would allow him to score 37 ppg? Likewise, if Jordan focused on getting every stat he could other than scoring, do you believe he would not average more? His difference to Pippen given their difference in role and size in terms of rpg and apg is really not that far off considering how far off their ppg are.

[PP34Deuce]

I think ish pays through incentive certain posters to just troll and create arguments that in turn increase viewership or interaction so they can use ad space more.

[AirBonner]

Op’s posting habits are a lot like Kobe’s shot selection. High volume low efficiency

[3ba11]

MJ shot the most when he lost the most. Interesting.


He shot the most in the 98' and 93' Playoffs (outside the 1st Round)

+

34/7/7 in the 91-93' Playoffs

+

36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals

+

6 titles as scoring champ

=

he didn't have to tone it down to win like everyone else

[3ba11]

71% vs 72%...?


Lebron lost more at all levels 33 and higher, so his ball-dominant high scoring didn't win like Jordan's mix of on-ball and off-ball

[3ba11]

Thread bomb in 3...2...1...

MJ scored more because he shot more?.. Of course.. but he shot more because he HAD PIPPEN as his top producer of REB, AST, STL and BLK.

Pippen was the Championship Bull's top producer while MJ was a strong scorer like Iverson that under produced.


Jordan averaged more apg than Pippen in the regular season and playoffs, while leading the Bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen.

So this idea that Jordan didn't lead the passing is a massive lie.. And if the Bulls needed elite passing (8+ apg), Jordan was the only option.

Furthermore, Jordan can't assist on his own shot volume, which was higher than Pippen's - so there were less available shots for Jordan to assist on, yet he averaged the same or more assists, which means his assist PERCENTAGE is far higher than Pippen's - Jordan assisted 33% more often in the playoffs (28 to 21 assist percentage), while doubling Pippen's scoring average (goat load).

[2ball]

Thread Cliffs:

MJ was the goat volume shooter on the highest efficiencies

[3ba11]

Thread Cliffs:

MJ was the goat volume shooter on the highest efficiencies


:applause:


Even in 2018, Lebron still had the best 2nd option in the conference - Love averaged 20/10 in the 2nd Round against the #2 SRS Raptors and the same against the Warriors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) - he can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen.. Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's and never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

[Spurs m8]

Imagine he played in the 3 ball, no D era.

40-50 ppg average

[2ball]

:applause:


Even in 2018, Lebron still had the best 2nd option in the conference - Love averaged 20/10 in the 2nd Round against the #2 SRS Raptors and the same against the Warriors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).. Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) - he can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen.. Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's and never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

To expand on this…

Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for half of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here.

Furthermore, every "sidekick" in 3-pointer history with 2 rings was #1 option on a champion, except Pippen and Gasol

Kareem (80', 85')
McHale (86')
Worthy (87', 88')
T Parker (07')
Dumars (89')
Kobe (02')
Curry (15')
Wade (06', 11')

So Pippen played worse than other 2nd options but he also played on the only 2-star dynasty - so he got dynasty credit without having to share shine with 3rd and 4th stars, which greatly inflated his accolades..

ultimately, he's the only guy whose statistical rank (about 120th) is far lower than his perceived rank - the winning spotlight and 2-star dynasty greatly inflated his trash stats/performance.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi and Bird are the only guys who went 40-1 at home in a regular season (2016 and 1986). Kawhi is pretty much Bird if he was black, different styles but same impact and dominance. Every time Kawhi\Bird step foot on the court, their team is automatic top 3 SRS no questions asked.

So what would happen if Jordan faced Kawhi? The same exact thing that happened to Jordan in 1987.

Kawhi\Bird had the best brand of basketball, winning without any top 50 goats in their prime on their team.

[3ba11]

Kawhi and Bird are the only guys who went 40-1 at home in a regular season (2016 and 1986). Kawhi is pretty much Bird if he was black, different styles but same impact and dominance. Every time Kawhi\Bird step foot on the court, their team is automatic top 3 SRS no questions asked.

So what would happen if Jordan faced Kawhi? The same exact thing that happened to Jordan in 1987.

Kawhi\Bird had the best brand of basketball, winning without any top 50 goats in their prime on their team.


Jordan was scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98'

So a better version of Kawhi/Bird

Jordan lost to Bird because he had a rookie 8 seed against a dynasty, while guys like Kawhi or Lebron had favored, high seeds in their first playoffs.. They failed to carry lottery casts to low seeds like MJ did and therefore only had high seeds/good teams in the playoffs, while MJ had to carry lottery casts/low seeds

[SATAN]

Op’s posting habits are a lot like Kobe’s shot selection. High volume low efficiency

:lol

[000]

Lebron lost more
Literally 1% more:lol

[Phoenix]

Op’s posting habits are a lot like Kobe’s shot selection. High volume low efficiency

Oh I don't know if that's fair. He transitioned quite efficiently between his 3ball and 2ball accounts over a 10 minute span.

[ELITEpower23]

Thread bomb in 3...2...1...

MJ scored more because he shot more?.. Of course.. but he shot more because he HAD PIPPEN as his top producer of REB, AST, STL and BLK.

Pippen was the Championship Bull's top producer while MJ was a strong scorer like Iverson that under produced.

Was there ever an answer for this or is the thread done now?