How come Lebron's efficiency was kobe like when the league was tougher?

[Bronbron23]

During the 2000's period when defense was still a thing and more similar to the 90's bron couldn't shoot 50% To save his life. Discuss

[RRR3]

Another Bron thread :(

[Bronbron23]

Another Bron thread :(

Another unintelligent answer by rrrrrrrrrr3 the stuttering Mexican drug dealing tranny:oldlol:

[FKAri]

Because he's better than Kobe. That's why 2nd year Lebron had the same efficiency as peak Kobe.

[AirBonner]

LeBron was cut from a different cloth

[No Sir]

He was far more efficient than Kobe ever was by his 2nd season onwards. “Kobe-like”:oldlol:

[000]

League average FG%

2006: 45.4%
2007: 45.8%
2008: 45.7%
2009: 45.9%
2010: 46.1%
2011: 45.9%
2012: 44.8%
2013: 45.3%
2014: 45.4%
2015: 44.9%
2016: 45.2%
2017: 45.7%
2018: 46%
2019: 46.1%
2020: 46%

[Airupthere]

Lebron's second year was when we saw increase in production and higher fg% by a lot of stars because of rules changes. Lebron didn't really see the era that Kobe came from. Lebron started with the MVP Nash era.

[AirBonner]

Lebron's second year was when we saw increase in production and higher fg% by a lot of stars because of rules changes. Lebron didn't really see the era that Kobe came from. Lebron started with the MVP Nash era.

Kobe was a sidekick in Kobe era

[Bronbron23]

He was far more efficient than Kobe ever was by his 2nd season onwards. “Kobe-like”:oldlol:

Really? Kobe year 3 to year 6 was 47% 47% 46% 46%. Bron from year 3-6 was 48% 48% 48% 49%. He was slightly more efficient. Far more is poppycock

[Airupthere]

Really? Kobe year 3 to year 6 was 47% 47% 46% 46%. Bron from year 3-6 was 48% 48% 48% 49%. He was slightly more efficient. Far more is poppycock

1% difference considering kobe takes a lot of contested shots? What does that say about lebron. Lol. And again, Lebron essentially started in the era when Nash started to dominate.

[000]

Really? Kobe year 3 to year 6 was 47% 47% 46% 46%. Bron from year 3-6 was 48% 48% 48% 49%. He was slightly more efficient. Far more is poppycock
Lebron averaged 53% fg in 2012, 57% in 2013 & 2014. Not that fg% means anything

[dankok8]

Use TS% in comparisons because that's real efficiency.

[Airupthere]

Use TS% in comparisons because that's real efficiency.

From 2004-2007

Kobe 56%, 56%, 58%
Lebron 55%, 57%, 55%

[Bronbron23]

League average FG%

2006: 45.4%
2007: 45.8%
2008: 45.7%
2009: 45.9%
2010: 46.1%
2011: 45.9%
2012: 44.8%
2013: 45.3%
2014: 45.4%
2015: 44.9%
2016: 45.2%
2017: 45.7%
2018: 46%
2019: 46.1%
2020: 46%

As the league became easier especially on the perimeter threes dramatically increased. So even though everyone is shooting way more lower percentage shots league efficiency hasn't changed because scoring is so much easier.

[Bronbron23]

Lebron averaged 53% fg in 2012, 57% in 2013 & 2014. Not that fg% means anything

Yeah i'm talking mid 90's to late 2000's when the league was at its toughest defensively. After that his efficiency was amazing

[000]

As the league became easier especially on the perimeter threes dramatically increased. So even though everyone is shooting way more lower percentage shots league efficiency hasn't changed because scoring is so much easier.

This post is pretty much BS because 3pt attempts didnt really start increasing until 2013, and Lebron shot 50%, 51%, and 53% from 2010-2012.
And even in 2013 it had increased by like 1.5 attempts from 2012, big whoop. There was a bigger difference between 2008 and 2006 and nobody says those two seasons were somehow different.



I think most people understand 2017 Lebron wasnt truly like Shaq in terms of fg%...

[TheCorporation]

Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

[ImKobe]

League average FG%

2006: 45.4%
2007: 45.8%
2008: 45.7%
2009: 45.9%
2010: 46.1%
2011: 45.9%
2012: 44.8%
2013: 45.3%
2014: 45.4%
2015: 44.9%
2016: 45.2%
2017: 45.7%
2018: 46%
2019: 46.1%
2020: 46%

The FG% argument is so dumb because more 3s obviously leads to no increase in FG%, but the fact that it still went up with the insane volume that teams shoot them at means that the league is more watered down than ever. If OP was smart he'd have used TS% to make his point because Lebron was not more efficient than Kobe as a scorer in the 2000s because of his limited range and average FT shooting ability. '08 Celtics held Lebron to 35.5%FG for the series with games like 2/18 10 TOs. Spurs shut Lebron down even worse the year before and Kobe absolutely decimated them the following year with similar help.

[Bronbron23]

This post is pretty much BS because 3pt attempts didnt really start increasing until 2013, and Lebron shot 50%, 51%, and 53% from 2010-2012.
And even in 2013 it had increased by like 1.5 attempts from 2012, big whoop. There was a bigger difference between 2008 and 2006 and nobody says these two seasons were somehow different.



I think most people understand 2017 Lebron wasnt truly like Shaq in terms of fg%...

Well teams were shooting 4 or 5 more threes so that's pretty significant. Bron actually shot less threes overall during his stint in miami. He shot alot less longer shots in general during this stint if i recall correctly

[Bronbron23]

Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Right but how much of that was the era? How many seasons would kobe have over that if he played most of his career in the easiest era ever?

[TheCorporation]

Right but how much of that was the era? How many seasons would kobe have over that if he played most of his career in the easiest era ever?

Reality: Kobe has ZERO seasons above .469% shooting and his numbers got even WORSE when comparing his #s from the easy era (1991-2005) to his #s from the hardest era ever (2010s and beyond).

Are you trying to roast yourself or prove my point?

[Bronbron23]

Reality: Kobe has ZERO seasons above .469% shooting and his numbers got even WORSE when comparing his #s from the easy era (1991-2005) to his #s from the hardest era ever (2010s and beyond).

Are you trying to roast yourself or prove my point?

After 2010 kobe was considerably past his prime. It's pretty obvious that prime kobe in an easier era would be more efficient. Are you really arguing this?

[8Ball]

Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Was waiting for this.

Surprised how little people remember about dear Kobe.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2009 east finals he averaged 39PPG on 59% TS.

Poor guy, he was feeling the effect of that "2000s defense".

[Gohan]

Lebron averaged 53% fg in 2012, 57% in 2013 & 2014. Not that fg% means anything

He was also playing with wade and bosh, im sure thats not part of the reason. Anyways iverson shot 53 percent with memphis. Dont get angry im just stating facts

[TheCorporation]

# of Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

[Gudo]

# of Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

Barely had one season above 50% before superteaming with Wade and Bosh. That made his job easier in MIA. Plus the rules being soft on his ass, with his size and athleticism that can bulldoze the lanes anytime he wants add to the fact that the game became easier for him.

[ImKobe]

# of Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

# of Seasons shooting over .780 FT%

Kobe = 20 for 20
Lebron 0 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

[AirBonner]

Barely had one season above 50% before superteaming with Wade and Bosh. That made his job easier in MIA. Plus the rules being soft on his ass, with his size and athleticism that can bulldoze the lanes anytime he wants add to the fact that the game became easier for him.

Seems like you are trying too hard to prop up Kobe. Maybe you should discuss MJ instead ;)

[TheCorporation]

Barely had one season above 50% before superteaming with Wade and Bosh. That made his job easier in MIA. Plus the rules being soft on his ass, with his size and athleticism that can bulldoze the lanes anytime he wants add to the fact that the game became easier for him.

What? :lol

So LeAllYouCanEat had 17 of 18 seasons over .469% with Bosh and Wade but Kobe has ZERO with Shaq and Gasol? :roll:

G A M E . O V E R . B A B Y . B O I

[Airupthere]

Wade before Lebron superteamed with him was averaging like 47-48% fg. During the superfriend bananaboat collusion era, he was magically averaging 50-55% fg.

[Gudo]

What? :lol

So LeAllYouCanEat had 17 of 18 seasons over .469% with Bosh and Wade but Kobe has ZERO with Shaq and Gasol? :roll:

G A M E . O V E R . B A B Y . B O I

Before 2004? Before Iversion had his peak numbers and before Nash turned into a point god because of the rules changes? Lebron didn't average 50%+ before he joined MIA and that was post 2004, the outset of the softening of the league.

[TheCorporation]

Before 2004? Before Iversion had his peak numbers and before Nash turned into a point god because of the rules changes? Lebron didn't average 50%+ before he joined MIA and that was post 2004, the outset of the softening of the league.

Let me get this straight

Shooting over .469%

LeBron = 17 for 18 with Wade Bosh
Kobe = 0 for 20 with Shaq and Gasol

[000]

Well teams were shooting 4 or 5 more threes so that's pretty significant. Bron actually shot less threes overall during his stint in miami. He shot alot less longer shots in general during this stint if i recall correctly
No, teams shot the same amount of threes in 2012 as in 2008. And 1.5 more in 2013. I just explained that to you...

[000]

2009 east finals he averaged 39PPG on 59% TS.

Poor guy, he was feeling the effect of that "2000s defense".

:eek:

[000]

If offense was so ez pz in "lebrons era" how come ortg was actually lower in the 2010s until like 2017?

Everybody forgot how to play basketball?

[Airupthere]

2009 east finals he averaged 39PPG on 59% TS.

Poor guy, he was feeling the effect of that "2000s defense".

Lol, latter part of 2000s? The rules and gameplay were way Lebron friendly by that point.

[Hey Yo]

Really? Kobe year 3 to year 6 was 47% 47% 46% 46%. Bron from year 3-6 was 48% 48% 48% 49%. He was slightly more efficient. Far more is poppycock

One was the 1st option while the other was a sidekick.

The sidekick didn't become 1st option till 2005.

[Hey Yo]

After 2010 kobe was considerably past his prime. It's pretty obvious that prime kobe in an easier era would be more efficient. Are you really arguing this?

He didnt become a starter until the 2000 season. Missed playoffs or first round exit from 2005-2007.

So how was he "considerably past his prime" in 2011?

[SouBeachTalents]

First of all, you're comparing a guy in his early twenties who was in his first few seasons in the league to an experienced player who was at his peak, so it's not really a valid comparison right off the bat. Notice though as soon as LeBron hit his peak years ('09 & '10), he put up efficiencies that Kobe never did :lol

I see no reason to believe if you put 2013 & 2014 LeBron in the same timeframe we're discussing that his efficiency wouldn't continue to blow Kobe's away. The league was not more offensively friendly in the early 2010's than it was in the mid to late 2000's.

[SaintzFury13]

During the 2000's period when defense was still a thing and more similar to the 90's bron couldn't shoot 50% To save his life. Discuss

LeBron relied almost entirely on his athleticism in the 2000s. He didn't build up as much muscle yet and didn't have a consistent jumper either. He also lacked a post game and had a tendency to take unnecessary mid range jumpers. Granted, easy shots were still common for him because guarding him in the 2000s was a fever dream. But he wasn't mature as a player yet.

When he went to Miami, his focus changed. It wasn't like Cleveland where he could do whatever he wanted. He was forced to play smarter in Miami. And when he first joined the team, they didn't have very good floor spacing. That's going to happen when you have a line up with Wade and Haslem in it. Bosh wasn't a consistent three point shooter yet. And that left Chalmers as the only consistent three point shooter on the team.

The real turning point however was the Finals series against Dallas. LeBron realized right there and then that if he ever wanted to progress in his career, he needed to make a change in the way he played. So in the off season, he developed his post skills more, tried to develop his jump shot more, and he bulked up as well. As a result, from 2012-2018, he was basically un-guardable. Unless you had the length and defensive skillset (like Kawhi) or the strength and athelticism to keep up with him and handle him (like Iggy), you weren't going to successfully guard him. He didn't need to barge into the paint and rely on his athleticism and finishing ability to score anymore. He knew how to properly score in the post. He had a more polished and consistent jumper. He played a lot smarter rather than just rely on athleticism. 2013 and 2018 were LeBron's absolute peak when it came to his offensive prowess. In 2013, LeBron's athleticism was at its peak while he used the skills he learned to dominate on the offensive end on insane efficiency. And in 2018, despite not having the same athleticism as he once did, his jumper had evolved considerably to the point where leaving him open and daring to shoot was a suicide mission.

[3ba11]

Lebron pads his efficiency by driving a lot, but Kobe's jumpshooting facilitated ball movement/better brand and better teammate fits for more winning (team ceiling/Finals record)

[SATAN]

Another Bron thread :(

:oldlol:

His user name is Bronbron23. Dude is completely obsessed.

[8Ball]

# of Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

Did the OP have an answer for this?

[ELITEpower23]

# of Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

Next :lol

Anyone? Yeah. I thought so :lol BLOODBATH

Is it over now?

[Bronbron23]

He didnt become a starter until the 2000 season. Missed playoffs or first round exit from 2005-2007.

So how was he "considerably past his prime" in 2011?

Because he was like 32 or 33. Most players decline around that age. Bron is an exception because he's a freak of nature.

[Bronbron23]

First of all, you're comparing a guy in his early twenties who was in his first few seasons in the league to an experienced player who was at his peak, so it's not really a valid comparison right off the bat. Notice though as soon as LeBron hit his peak years ('09 & '10), he put up efficiencies that Kobe never did :lol

I see no reason to believe if you put 2013 & 2014 LeBron in the same timeframe we're discussing that his efficiency wouldn't continue to blow Kobe's away. The league was not more offensively friendly in the early 2010's than it was in the mid to late 2000's.

That's a fair answer but then that means 1-9 is bullshit then right?

[Bronbron23]

LeBron relied almost entirely on his athleticism in the 2000s. He didn't build up as much muscle yet and didn't have a consistent jumper either. He also lacked a post game and had a tendency to take unnecessary mid range jumpers. Granted, easy shots were still common for him because guarding him in the 2000s was a fever dream. But he wasn't mature as a player yet.

When he went to Miami, his focus changed. It wasn't like Cleveland where he could do whatever he wanted. He was forced to play smarter in Miami. And when he first joined the team, they didn't have very good floor spacing. That's going to happen when you have a line up with Wade and Haslem in it. Bosh wasn't a consistent three point shooter yet. And that left Chalmers as the only consistent three point shooter on the team.

The real turning point however was the Finals series against Dallas. LeBron realized right there and then that if he ever wanted to progress in his career, he needed to make a change in the way he played. So in the off season, he developed his post skills more, tried to develop his jump shot more, and he bulked up as well. As a result, from 2012-2018, he was basically un-guardable. Unless you had the length and defensive skillset (like Kawhi) or the strength and athelticism to keep up with him and handle him (like Iggy), you weren't going to successfully guard him. He didn't need to barge into the paint and rely on his athleticism and finishing ability to score anymore. He knew how to properly score in the post. He had a more polished and consistent jumper. He played a lot smarter rather than just rely on athleticism. 2013 and 2018 were LeBron's absolute peak when it came to his offensive prowess. In 2013, LeBron's athleticism was at its peak while he used the skills he learned to dominate on the offensive end on insane efficiency. And in 2018, despite not having the same athleticism as he once did, his jumper had evolved considerably to the point where leaving him open and daring to shoot was a suicide mission.

Good answer

[Bronbron23]

:oldlol:

His user name is Bronbron23. Dude is completely obsessed.

Right i'm obsessed. Your self awareness is on zero :facepalm

[Bronbron23]

Did the OP have an answer for this?
Yup already answered. Kobe played all of his prime in a tougher era. If he played most of his prime in an easier era surely he'd have higher fg%. That said kobe took tough shots that were often borderline bad shots. He forced shit alot. His talent was his downfall at times because he was so talented scoring wise he felt he could score in any situation. Double team tripple team whatever. Bron has never had this confidence scoring wise. Up until the last few years bron half the time was scared to shoot wide open jumpers in iso coverage. This made it easier to make the "right play" because he really didn't have any other option.

[ELITEpower23]

Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

OP?

[Bronbron23]

Seasons shooting over .469 FG%

Kobe = 0 for 20
LeBron 17 for 18

OP?

Answered this numerous times

[SaintzFury13]

Yup already answered. Kobe played all of his prime in a tougher era. If he played most of his prime in an easier era surely he'd have higher fg%. That said kobe took tough shots that were often borderline bad shots. He forced shit alot. His talent was his downfall at times because he was so talented scoring wise he felt he could score in any situation. Double team tripple team whatever. Bron has never had this confidence scoring wise. Up until the last few years bron half the time was scared to shoot wide open jumpers in iso coverage. This made it easier to make the "right play" because he really didn't have any other option.

Honestly, LeBron probably would have dominated Kobe's era just as well as he dominated this one. He's proven over his entire career that he is capable of adapting, and has the work ethic to raise his skillset in certain aspects to an elite level. Remember, he wasn't a very good defender starting out, but once he decided to dedicate more time and effort at that end, he was suddenly one of the best in the league. He had almost no post game, but spent an entire summer working on it and was suddenly very dangerous in that regard. When he realized he simply could not get by anymore without a consistent jumper, he went on to shot at a very good percentage, far better than Kobe ever could have dreamed of.

But what really helps LeBron above all else is the slower pace of Kobe's era. As LeBron got older, the pace of the game as a whole increased across the board. Getting to play in a slower pace like Kobe did would have allowed LeBron to consistently focus more on the defensive end of the floor, to the point where those five first team all defense selections suddenly goes up. Who knows, maybe he breaks the record and gets 10 first team selections. The competition at that position during Kobe's peak wasn't that intense. Bruce Bowen would have been LeBron's best competition, and while I don't deny how great of a defender Bowen was, LeBron when he became an elite defender was better at that end than Bowen ever was. And when Bowen regressed and eventually retired, there wasn't really any competition at that position that LeBron couldn't handle.

Of course, these are all what ifs. I do agree that Kobe played in a much tougher era. But I have no doubt in my mind that LeBron would have dominated that era as well, far better than Kobe ever did.

[3ba11]

.
It's easy to pad your efficiency when


1) you have an equal-scoring partner (1b) to attract equal defensive attention...

Everyone in history needed a 1b to match or exceed their playoff scoring for most title runs, while MJ averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every SERIES.. So MJ is the only guy never played with a teammate that got doubled or averaged as much as him, so only Jordan faced 1-man team defensive coverage for his entire career.

2) you avoid contested jumpers/defers them to teammates..

The tracking stats show that Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers.