Why do vaxxers always say ask your doctor

[Bronbron23]

Family doctors don't know anymore about covid then we do. They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media who've been wrong on thing from the start.

It's such a low iq statement.

[FKAri]

Because they know your medical history? They would be aware if there's something that would make you far more likely to get an adverse reaction than the general population? Is this a trick question?

[Off the Court]

Doctors haven't bothered to study up on covid19? The people who have actual experience with covid patients and vaccine side effects know the same as some dolt on the internet looking at misleading YouTube videos?

Extremely low IQ thread.

[diamenz]

Family doctors don't know anymore about covid then we do. They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media who've been wrong on thing from the start.

It's such a low iq statement.

you don't know that. doctors aren't robots, you know. just like joe blow, doctors can be both obedient and disobedient towards power.

...on a personal level, anyway.

[jstern]

My doctor asked me if I wanted to take the shot. I said no. She wanted to know my reasoning, and I just said no. I don't bother explaining. It's a complicated subject I'm not going to waste her time, since she's not going to be on the same page in order to understand.

The subject of vitamin D did come up, and I told her that I read in a study that 80% of people who end up in the hospital due to Corona were vitamin D deficient. Just a casual comment that I think is important for people to know. Specially since the media doesn't promote preventative measures, and she kind of pushed back. So if a casual vitamin D comment was met with push back, forget it, she's human.

The bottom line is that doctors are humans, and they themselves have even less time to research every claim and possible political reasoning for certain things. They are left only following guidelines. Many people here on ISH will have an understanding of my reasoning, and the logic behind them, because they have read them many times, with linked articles, studies, etc. They are exposed to a small extent to my reasoning, but the doctor is not going to be exposed to my detailed reasoning, because their whole day is taken up by work and the guidelines.

I posted this video (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497429-I-m-trying-to-discern-Why-does-Pfizer-says-this-girl-is-just-suffering-from-anxiety&p=14459431&viewfull=1#post14459431) last night. This guy's doctor wouldn't take some of his problems seriously, because of guidelines, until she started seeing more and more people with the same problems. And then another doctor was sending him to see a psychiatrist, because there's no way that his sudden 120+ resting BPM is due to the vaccine, it has to be anxiety.

He wanted to get a cardiogram, but another said that he shouldn't, but good thing the guy was able to convince him, else he would have ended up with a worse conditioning for his heart.

So bottom line, doctor's are human. There's not enough hours and mental stamina in the day, and unless you do your extensive research and have a good understanding of what you read. You could end up dead.

[Kobe_Bryant]

if you go into your doctor's office with a headache he might prescibe you for antipsychotic medication

no sh*t she's gonna prescribe a shot. that's more kickbacks for him

[Cleverness]

Because they know your medical history? They would be aware if there's something that would make you far more likely to get an adverse reaction than the general population? Is this a trick question?

Yeah. Your primary care provider should know your medical history and should be your best resource to help assess your benefits and risks of becoming vaccinated.

[Bronbron23]

Because they know your medical history? They would be aware if there's something that would make you far more likely to get an adverse reaction than the general population? Is this a trick question?

That's not what most people are suggesting when they that. They're basically saying the vaccines are necessary ask your doctor why you and everyone should get it.

[ArbitraryWater]

my doctor doesnt know anything about covid lol

her argument to me after she said you dont have to worry about getting the vaccine, and i answered its not necessary for my age group naming some stats, was "i know some ppl your age really fit that suffered with covid"...


:lol

ok coo'

[Bronbron23]

Doctors haven't bothered to study up on covid19? The people who have actual experience with covid patients and vaccine side effects know the same as some dolt on the internet looking at misleading YouTube videos?

Extremely low IQ thread.

No most doctors only know what's going on in there hospital. They only thing they know is how many covid patients there are and what the symptoms are and how severe they are. They don't know the answers for alot of covid questions like natural immunity and spread.

And they don't do the studies on side effects. If someone comes in with a condition after getting the vaccine all doctors know is that person has a said condition.

[ArbitraryWater]

Because they know your medical history? They would be aware if there's something that would make you far more likely to get an adverse reaction than the general population? Is this a trick question?

dont you know your medical history yourself? :lol

[Off the Court]

Yeah. Your primary care provider should know your medical history and should be your best resource to help assess your benefits and risks of becoming vaccinated.
Blasphemy, doctors don't even know what covid is. They don't have time to look into that stuff.

[Cleverness]

No most doctors only know what's going on in there hospital. They only thing they know is how many covid patients there are and what the symptoms are and how severe they are. They don't know the answers for alot of covid questions like natural immunity and spread.

And they don't do the studies on side effects. If someone comes in with a condition after getting the vaccine all doctors know is that person has a said condition.

Yeah. Most doctors only know (and do) what they are told. This goes for all healthcare providers. The ones telling you to wear a mask & get vaccinated are doing so because their bosses told them to tell people to wear masks & get vaccinated. And their bosses bosses also say the same thing. Everything is top down and as the years go by there's less and less independent decision-making being made by healthcare providers.

... but where else are people supposed to go for advice about vaccinations? Their PCP *should* be one the person, no?

[Bronbron23]

Yeah. Most doctors only know (and do) what they are told. This goes for all healthcare providers. The ones telling you to wear a mask & get vaccinated are doing so because their bosses told them to tell people to wear masks & get vaccinated. And their bosses bosses also say the same thing. Everything is top down and as the years go by there's less and less independent decision-making being made by healthcare providers.

... but where else are people supposed to go for advice about vaccinations? Their PCP *should* be one the person, no?

Yeah they all look to guidelines from the cdc who again have been wrong on covid since day 1.

[SATAN]

Can we ban this fgt already?

[Nanners]

because medicare/medicaid pays doctors a "covid consult" fee every time they talk to a patient about the covid vax... and also because doctors can have their medical license yanked if they say the "wrong" thing about covid treatments, or if they prescribe the "wrong" meds, or don't push the vaccine hard enough

[clipps]

OP is such a dipshit.

[Bronbron23]

Can we ban this fgt already?

Typical male karen wanting to ban people for speaking the truth. Your pathetic dude:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

OP is such a dipshit.

Why? What about what i said was wrong? Do you actually think doctors know alot about covid? How would a doctor who hasn't done any studies know anything more about covid than what the cdc tells them?

[tpols]

Doctors are easily corrupted. Imagine going through a decade+ of schooling and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to be told well remove your medical license to practice if you don't do as we say.

Doctors who write exemptions or go against the sentiment will be banned for "spreading disinformation" and "not trusting the science".

They're shills for big Pharma and nothing more. They get paid to write scripts.

[tpols]

Why? What about what i said was wrong? Do you actually think doctors know alot about covid? How would a doctor who hasn't done any studies know anything more about covid than what the cdc tells them?

Bingo.

The funny thing is in med school they teach you that the primary purpose of vaccines is for pre-exposure to a pathogen in order to stimulate a persons immune system to create ANTIBODIES... yet doctors will say you should still get the vaccine even if you show them a positive post exposure antibody test. So they are advising against the very principles that were originally taught to them.

[Bronbron23]

Bingo.

The funny thing is in med school they teach you that the primary purpose of vaccines is for pre-exposure to a pathogen in order to stimulate a persons immune system to create ANTIBODIES... yet doctors will say you should still get the vaccine even if you show them a positive post exposure antibody test. So they are advising against the very principles that were originally taught to them.

Yeah i was saying from jump that natural antibodies from exposure was better than the vaccine. This is basis common knowledge or it used to be until all the sheep let fear warp their brains. It's crazy how fear can make people act and think so irrationally. There's so many scared pathetic cowards out there.

[SATAN]

Typical male karen wanting to ban people for speaking the truth. Your pathetic dude:facepalm

You're agreeing with tpols. Wake up, dipshit.

[8Ball]

Another low iq thread.

[Axe]

Aren't they frontliners? Lmao.

[Off the Court]

Another low iq thread.
This one is extra low lol. Doctors bad!

[Bronbron23]

Another low iq thread.

What's low iq is thinking it's low iq

[Bronbron23]

This one is extra low lol. Doctors bad!

Nope. Your average doctor knows very little about covid. They only know what the cdc tells them for the most part

[n00bie]

Nope. Your average doctor knows very little about covid. They only know what the cdc tells them for the most part

They know more about viruses than the Youtubers you religiously watch.

[baudkarma]

my doctor doesnt know anything about covid lol

her argument to me after she said you dont have to worry about getting the vaccine, and i answered its not necessary for my age group naming some stats, was "i know some ppl your age really fit that suffered with covid"...


:lol

ok coo'

It's a good thing we have Covid experts like you to set us straight. Sure, your doctor may have spent 4 years in med school, but you probably spent at least 4 hours watching Youtube videos and listening to conservative talk show hosts.

[Off the Court]

Nope. Your average doctor knows very little about covid. They only know what the cdc tells them for the most part
The people dealing with covid first hand only knows what the CDC tells them? Where do you think the CDC gets their data? And we'll just ignore that the CDC are doctors themselves lol. We'll also ignore that doctors were familiar with coronaviruses before covid too. And We'll pretend you aren't making blanket statements on all doctors.

Let's just face it this thread is low IQ and ignorant.

[fsvr54]

Doctors are Gods and cannot be compromised by money/fear/propoganda.

[baudkarma]

The subject of vitamin D did come up, and I told her that I read in a study that 80% of people who end up in the hospital due to Corona were vitamin D deficient. Just a casual comment that I think is important for people to know. Specially since the media doesn't promote preventative measures, and she kind of pushed back. So if a casual vitamin D comment was met with push back, forget it, she's human.



You read a paper on the internet. But your doctor went to Med school for 4 years. Probably spent another 3-4 years in residency. Has to complete 40-50 hours of Continuing Medical Education every two years just to keep their license. But you obviously think you can teach your Doctor a thing or two. I would have pushed back too.

[Axe]

They know more about viruses than the Youtubers you religiously watch.
True

[baudkarma]

Doctors are Gods and cannot be compromised by money/fear/propoganda.

Nobody is suggesting that Doctors can't be compromised. They're human, any human can be bought under the right circumstances. The real question is how trustworthy do you feel that doctors as a whole are when you compare them to other professions? Politicians? Religious leaders? Lawyers? Auto mechanics? Law Enforcement Officers? Or I'll just make it simple, which profession is there that you feel is more honest and trustworthy than doctors?

[Bronbron23]

The people dealing with covid first hand only knows what the CDC tells them? Where do you think the CDC gets their data? And we'll just ignore that the CDC are doctors themselves lol. We'll also ignore that doctors were familiar with coronaviruses before covid too. And We'll pretend you aren't making blanket statements on all doctors.

Let's just face it this thread is low IQ and ignorant.

The cdc gets there data from studies which are usually done in colleges or over seas. When people say ask your doctor they're talking about doctors in offices or the hospitals. These doctors aren't the ones doing the studies on covid.

Oh and cdc has been wrong on covid since the beginning so i wouldn't use them as a great argument.

[Bronbron23]

They know more about viruses than the Youtubers you religiously watch.

What youtubers lol. The only youtube videos I've sourced are videos of the cdc and fauci. Nice try though buddy.

[j3lademaster]

This is dumb. You don't have to stick to one particular doctor either, you can get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. Generally speaking, doctors are going to be MUCH more informed than any schmuck in this thread. What would be your alternative to doctors for medical advice? Facebook memes?

[Bronbron23]

This is dumb. You don't have to stick to one particular doctor either, you can get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. Generally speaking, doctors are going to be MUCH more informed than any schmuck in this thread. What would be your alternative to doctors for medical advice? Facebook memes?

I'm talking about specific things that i've been arguing with people about like the spread and natural immunity. When it comes to these things most doctors only know what they've heard from the cdc, government and media.

If you want to test this theory just ask your doctor or a doctor next time you get a chance. Ask them if the vaccine reduces the spread and i bet they'll say yes it does. Aak them if natural immunity is as good as the vaccine and watch them say no. I know plenty of doctors and they all say the same.

[j3lademaster]

If you want to test this theory just ask your doctor or a doctor next time you get a chance. Ask them if the vaccine reduces the spread and i bet they'll say yes it does. Aak them if natural immunity is as good as the vaccine and watch them say no. I know plenty of doctors and they all say the same.So, you're saying this is 100% gospel and any doctor that disagrees with any of these doesn't know what they're talking about... at least as far as Covid and the vaccines go. Right?

[Bronbron23]

So, you're saying this is 100% gospel and any doctor that disagrees with any of these doesn't know what they're talking about... at least as far as Covid and the vaccines go. Right?

Well not much is 100% gospel when it comes to covid and the vaccines. Both are new. Based on the best studies available yes natural immunity is as good. And even fauci and the cdc admit with delta the vaccine is ineffective at reducing the spread.

And no i'm not saying it means they don't know anything about covid. They work with covid patients so they know some things covid related. As far as the questions that i and alot of people gave about natural immunity and spread they have no idea because they get it wrong almost always. That's because like everyone else they're listening to popular opinion.

[SATAN]

Family doctors don't know anymore about covid then we do. They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media who've been wrong on thing from the start.

It's such a low iq statement.

The irony of this post is mind blowing.

[Bronbron23]

The irony of this post is mind blowing.

Nah not really. They actually don't. If you want to test this just ask the next doctor you see if the vaccine reduces the spread or is natural immunity as good as the vaccine. They'll get these questions wrong just like most people do.

[SATAN]

So if they don't agree with whatever nonsense you said in this thread they are wrong. Got it.

[Bronbron23]

So if they don't agree with whatever nonsense you said in this thread they are wrong. Got it.

Yes if they disagree with the science they are wrong. Get it?

[baudkarma]

Nah not really. They actually don't. If you want to test this just ask the next doctor you see if the vaccine reduces the spread or is natural immunity as good as the vaccine. They'll get these questions wrong just like most people do.

Just because the answer that someone gives isn't the one you want to hear doesn't mean mean their answer is wrong.

[Bronbron23]

Just because the answer that someone gives isn't the one you want to hear doesn't mean mean their answer is wrong.

It's not about what i want to hear. It's not my opinion dude. The science says the vaccine dosn't reduce transmission. The science also says natural immunity is as good or better than the vaccine so they would in fact be wrong.

[BurningHammer]

It's not about what i want to hear. It's not my opinion dude. The science says the vaccine dosn't reduce transmission. The science also says natural immunity is as good or better than the vaccine so they would in fact be wrong.

I wonder which sources of your science are.

What I read from more trust-worthy news sources say completely different than your science.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccines-herd-immunity-variants-1.6104364

https://globalnews.ca/news/8229808/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-fact-check/

:confusedshrug:

[baudkarma]

It's not about what i want to hear. It's not my opinion dude. The science says the vaccine dosn't reduce transmission. The science also says natural immunity is as good or better than the vaccine so they would in fact be wrong.

It is in fact exactly about you want to hear. The science that you have decided to accept reinforces what you already believe. There are many studies that show that the vax does reduce transmission rates, and that "natural immunity" is a myth, or at least not nearly the bulletproof vest that it's proponents want you to think it is. You could find that out if you did a little research with the idea of "Maybe I'm wrong." but you won't do that.

[Axe]

What is it about the vaccine you don't like? It's not mandatory in every place you may go to, domestic or international but many of could require results of your swab test if you'll be travelling.

[Bronbron23]

I wonder which sources of your science are.

What I read from more trust-worthy news sources say completely different than your science.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccines-herd-immunity-variants-1.6104364

https://globalnews.ca/news/8229808/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-fact-check/

:confusedshrug:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/amp/ Isreal is ahead of the us as far as their understanding of the virus. They've done much bigger trials and studies on this. Even fauci acknowledges this.

and the cbc article you gave is from july when delta first started spreading in the us. The studies from that article were on alpha and like the cdc at the time they were assuming the vaccines would work on other variations like it did alpha but now we know that's not true. Alpha is now gone and delta is over 99% of the cases and with delta the vaccinations don't reduce spread. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU. With alpha the amount of virus in the nasal was much lower in a vaccinated individual and that's why they said the vaccines reduced transmission at the time. That has since changed with delta but you the media and everyone else who dosn't pay attention is still going from data on alpha.

So to answer your question my sources are the cdc who are tge governing body medically on this. My other source is the biggest and best study we have on delta, natural immunity and it's comparison to the vaccines.

[Bronbron23]

It is in fact exactly about you want to hear. The science that you have decided to accept reinforces what you already believe. There are many studies that show that the vax does reduce transmission rates, and that "natural immunity" is a myth, or at least not nearly the bulletproof vest that it's proponents want you to think it is. You could find that out if you did a little research with the idea of "Maybe I'm wrong." but you won't do that.

I've done my research. Like anything you can find studies to support your beliefs i agree with that but why does not apply to you also?

And the best and biggest studies we have on this do show that natural immunity is as good or better.

And there aren't "many" studies that show the vaccines reduce the spread when it comes to delta. Your either lying or miss informed. You don't seem like a bad dude so i'm gonna assume the latter. You like the media and the rest of the people who are just blindly following the media who lie religiously are still going by data from alpha.

Here's fauci after talking about it after the new studies on delta came out. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU. Here's the cdc director talking about their being no data on the vaccines reducing spread with delta. This was right before data did come out which was the data fauci spoke on in the other clip.

[Bronbron23]

What is it about the vaccine you don't like? It's not mandatory in every place you may go to, domestic or international but many of could require results of your swab test if you'll be travelling.

I don't not like it dude. I think the vaccines are a good thing for alot of people. I just don't think they should be mandated because alot of people are very low risk. Primarily those has covid and young people. Again these 2 groups being low risk isn't up for debate. It's a fact so there's only 2 arguments that can be made to why these groups should be vaccinated and they're both bad ones.

One is even though they're protected they should get it to reduce the spread. I've already proved why this argument dosn't make sense. The vaccines reduced the spread with alpha but it dosn't with delta which is pretty much every case in the us now.

The second argument is even though they're protected they should get it because the hospitals are overwhelmed. This also dosn't makes sense because these groups aren't the ones dying or being hospitalized at significant numbers.

I'm all for vaccines for people who are high risk. Making the tens of millions of people get it who don't need it makes no sense.

[RRR3]

Dumbdumb23 :roll: :roll: :roll:




Holy shit I’m cackling over how ****ing stupid this retard is.

[RRR3]

It is in fact exactly about you want to hear. The science that you have decided to accept reinforces what you already believe. There are many studies that show that the vax does reduce transmission rates, and that "natural immunity" is a myth, or at least not nearly the bulletproof vest that it's proponents want you to think it is. You could find that out if you did a little research with the idea of "Maybe I'm wrong." but you won't do that.
I don’t think he’s actually capable of critical thought. Watching him try to argue is quite hilarious.

[hiphopanonymous]

Family doctors don't know anymore about covid then we do. They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media who've been wrong on thing from the start.

It's such a low iq statement.
Doctors spent 8 years taking medical course work to even become a Doctor and have mandatory minimum required amounts of re-training and always receive the latest updated peer reviewed research about pressing issues such as pandemics. They are required to receive more of these annual courses then your total number of hours spent on the toilet every year browsing right wing news articles and conspiracy theories. That's why they get paid 100k-1m+ a year to do what they do while you are forced to preach on ISH to 8 or 9 people and get paid absolutely nothing for it. Carry on with your toilet research tho.

[BurningHammer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/amp/ Isreal is ahead of the us as far as their understanding of the virus. They've done much bigger trials and studies on this. Even fauci acknowledges this.



The study, published online (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf) but not yet peer reviewed


But experts are stressing that the results shouldn’t be interpreted as discouragement from vaccinating. Immunologist Prof. Cyrille Cohen of Bar Ilan University, who was not involved in the study, told The Times of Israel: “Certain people who are not inclined to get vaccinated might be mistaken and think that this means you’d better get sick a priori and not get a vaccine. Such a thinking is medically wrong, and the results of the study do not mean that people should expose themselves on purpose and get sick.

Okay. So you just read the parts you want so far. Not the whole article.


and the cbc article you gave is from july when delta first started spreading in the us. The studies from that article were on alpha and like the cdc at the time they were assuming the vaccines would work on other variations like it did alpha but now we know that's not true. Alpha is now gone and delta is over 99% of the cases and with delta the vaccinations don't reduce spread. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU. With alpha the amount of virus in the nasal was much lower in a vaccinated individual and that's why they said the vaccines reduced transmission at the time. That has since changed with delta but you the media and everyone else who dosn't pay attention is still going from data on alpha.


I read some more recent pieces of news of recent research on Delta variants. Some leans on current vaccines not working that well against Delta but many others says otherwise. Then I find this article covering most of it.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/


The idea that vaccines are no longer that effective against transmission may derive from news reports in July (https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-d9504519a8ae081f785ca012b5ef84d1) claiming that vaccinated people who become infected “can carry as much virus as others”. Even if this were true, however, vaccines would still greatly reduce transmission by reducing infections in the first place.


So to answer your question my sources are the cdc who are tge governing body medically on this. My other source is the biggest and best study we have on delta, natural immunity and it's comparison to the vaccines.

Then you can share your sources to educate us by just post some links to them. :D

[Bronbron23]

Dumbdumb23 :roll: :roll: :roll:




Holy shit I’m cackling over how ****ing stupid this retard is.

Imagine a self proclaimed drug dealer calling someone else stupid. Only on ish:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

Doctors spent 8 years taking medical course work to even become a Doctor and have mandatory minimum required amounts of re-training and always receive the latest updated peer reviewed research about pressing issues such as pandemics. They are required to receive more of these annual courses then your total number of hours spent on the toilet every year browsing right wing news articles and conspiracy theories. That's why they get paid 100k-1m+ a year to do what they do while you are forced to preach on ISH to 8 or 9 people and get paid absolutely nothing for it. Carry on with your toilet research tho.

My main point is when it comes to the spread and and natural immunity most doctors get it wrong just like most people. This is because they're getting their info from the cdc who's been wrong numerous times on covid or their getting their info from the news who also have been consistently wrong on covid. Again if you want to test this fact just ask the next doctor you see and ask them the 2 questions i said earlier in this post. Most will get it wrong because they get their info on covid from the same place we're getting it from.

[Bronbron23]

Okay. So you just read the parts you want so far. Not the whole article.



I read some more recent pieces of news of recent research on Delta variants. Some leans on current vaccines not working that well against Delta but many others says otherwise. Then I find this article covering most of it.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/





Then you can share your sources to educate us by just post some links to them. :D

No i read it all. Of course it dosn't mean most people shouldn't get vaccinated or people should get sick to get natural immunity. I'm talking about the tens of millions people who already got covid and who now have natural immunity that's as good or better than the vaccine.

[hiphopanonymous]

My main point is when it comes to the spread and and natural immunity most doctors get it wrong just like most people. This is because they're getting their info from the cdc who's been wrong numerous times on covid or their getting their info from the news who also have been consistently wrong on covid. Again if you want to test this fact just ask the next doctor you see and ask them the 2 questions i said earlier in this post. Most will get it wrong because they get their info on covid from the same place we're getting it from.
Doctors are humans that make mistakes and research evolves. So yeah, they or their collective data can be wrong or simply pliable sometimes. But it's more quickly and more accurately able to be evaluated and corrected through rigorous cross examinations by peers. Their asses are all on the line with medical malpractice suits and everyone is after them despite how hard they worked to get where they are. They don't like to get anything wrong and they use the most strong methodology and sources (peer reviewed) possible to stay current and as accurate as humanly possible.

The difference between them and you is massive. Your research is at best random and aimless and at worst biased with a menagerie of unreviewed or unchecked "data" and there are no stakes whatsoever whether you're right or wrong because you didn't go to school and accumulate massive debt then land on a prestigious career to weave yourself into such a risky net of responsibility. You probably don't even have a medical background let alone what is required to become a Doctor. You act like there's little difference between your credibility and a doctors. Just because they casually chat about your health with you at your visit doesn't mean you and them are basically equal minded when it comes to disease. Is there also little difference between you and a pro basketball player since you both have done a bit of research about basketball?

[Bronbron23]

Okay. So you just read the parts you want so far. Not the whole article.



I read some more recent pieces of news of recent research on Delta variants. Some leans on current vaccines not working that well against Delta but many others says otherwise. Then I find this article covering most of it.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/





Then you can share your sources to educate us by just post some links to them. :D

And the study you gave is this one https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y it's also not peer reviewed btw and it goes into more detail about the difference between delta spread with vaccinated and non vaccinated.

[tpols]

Doctors spent 8 years taking medical course work to even become a Doctor and have mandatory minimum required amounts of re-training and always receive the latest updated peer reviewed research about pressing issues such as pandemics. They are required to receive more of these annual courses then your total number of hours spent on the toilet every year browsing right wing news articles and conspiracy theories. That's why they get paid 100k-1m+ a year to do what they do while you are forced to preach on ISH to 8 or 9 people and get paid absolutely nothing for it. Carry on with your toilet research tho.

Catching a virus and producing antibodies for it as a result is "toilet research"?

Human beings don't have naturally occurring immune systems and are incapable of producing antibodies to pathogens on their own?

You must have failed your biology 101 class at community college. Your entire post is a logical fallacy ~ ie always appeal to authority.

Any doctor that advises you to get the vaccine after showing a positive antibody test is defying all the science they were taught in med school. Doesn't matter what degree they have, and it shows that the corruption, runs deep down even into their profession. They can easily have their license revoked for going against orders given to them. Any doctor that hands out too many exemptions is targeted and silenced. That's why they're not discussing natural immunity as a substitute for those that got the antibody test.

[Bronbron23]

Doctors are humans that make mistakes and research evolves. So yeah, they or their collective data can be wrong or simply pliable sometimes. But it's more quickly and more accurately able to be evaluated and corrected through rigorous cross examinations by peers. Their asses are all on the line with medical malpractice suits and everyone is after them despite how hard they worked to get where they are. They don't like to get anything wrong and they use the most strong methodology and sources (peer reviewed) possible to stay current and as accurate as humanly possible.

The difference between them and you is massive. Your research is at best random and aimless and at worst biased with a menagerie of unreviewed or unchecked "data" and there are no stakes whatsoever whether you're right or wrong because you didn't go to school and accumulate massive debt then land on a prestigious career to weave yourself into such a risky net of responsibility. You probably don't even have a medical background let alone what is required to become a Doctor. You act like there's little difference between your credibility and a doctors. Just because they casually chat about your health with you at your visit doesn't mean you and them are basically equal minded when it comes to disease. Is there also little difference between you and a pro basketball player since you both have done a bit of research about basketball?

Again doctors clearly have a way better understanding of shit in general as i do. Not so much when it comes to new viruses and new vaccines.

And I'm not talking about the doctors working and studying covid and vaccines. I'm talking about regular every day doctors in offices and at the hospitals who don't study covid.

Shit dr fauci told people when aids came out that you could get by sitting next to them.

As far as pro basketball players that's a bit different. Ball is pretty basic shit. I think most people who play or played at a competitive level have close to the same basic understanding of the game but sometimes people are just bettet because they're more skilled or athletic. There's plenty of really good coaching who didn't go pro who understand the game as good or better than pro's who played.

[hiphopanonymous]

Catching a virus and producing antibodies for it as a result is "toilet research"?

Human beings don't have naturally occurring immune systems and are incapable of producing antibodies to pathogens on their own?

You must have failed your biology 101 class at community college. Your entire post is a logical fallacy ~ ie always appeal to authority.

Any doctor that advises you to get the vaccine after showing a positive antibody test is defying all the science they were taught in med school. Doesn't matter what degree they have, and it shows that the corruption, runs deep down even into their profession. They can easily have their license revoked for going against orders given to them. Any doctor that hands out too many exemptions is targeted and silenced. That's why they're not discussing natural immunity as a substitute for those that got the antibody test.
Appealing to authority is exactly what you will do the moment you realize you have cancer and need to know what to do from there. Or need surgery on your heart. Or managing a serious disease of any kind. You'll go to a Doctor. Not just shrug it off after reading some articles on your toilet - unless you're a fool. You just don't want to admit it. But it's a fool who doesn't appeal to Doctors for their authority on medical information. They worked hardest among competitors to get where they got, and constantly require practice to stay there. The consequences are severe if they get it wrong so they have all the incentives in the world to be accurate for you. They deserve to be the authorities on health. You or anyone else doing toilet research don't. That's why like I said, you get paid nothing to your audience of 8 on ISH for what you've "learned" about coronavirus or whatever else and Doctors on the other hand are compensated accordingly for the information they provide.

[tpols]

Appealing to authority is exactly what you will do the moment you realize you have cancer and need to know what to do from there. Or need surgery on your heart. Or managing a serious disease of any kind. You'll go to a Doctor. Not just shrug it off after reading some articles on your toilet - unless you're a fool. You just don't want to admit it. But it's a fool who doesn't appeal to Doctors for their authority on medical information. They worked hardest among competitors to get where they got, and constantly require practice to stay there. They deserve to be the authorities on health. You or anyone else doing toilet research don't.

So you still have no answer for natural immunity or even the most basic idea of how a human immune system works.

We're not asking you to reinvent the wheel or solve a quantum physics equation here dude. This is basic stuff that is being ignored. You pointing at somebody and yelling "b-but that guy said something else" isn't an answer. It has no reasoning behind it. THINK. please... and form a coherent logical argument.

I already caught COVID in April and it is in no way shape or form any thing close to cancer or heart disease. What a joke of a comparison.

[Off the Court]

So you still have no answer for natural immunity or even the most basic idea of how a human immune system works.

The vaccine tricks your immune system into thinking you have covid and then your immune system naturally creates antibodies the exact same way it would if you had actual covid. That is how vaccines work. The flu vaccine tricks your immune system into doing its thing too just in a different way. The difficulties that both vaccines have is trying to keep up with all the variants.

[tpols]

The vaccine tricks your immune system into thinking you have covid and then your immune system naturally creates antibodies the exact same way it would if you had actual covid. That is how vaccines work.

Exactly. The vaccines goal and the immune systems goal are the same ~ produce antibodies against the pathogen. Which is why it makes no sense the mainstream media and all the "doctors" they parade on their broadcasts (read: in this case paid shills) aren't discussing natural immunity as a substitute for a vax pass. If you have antibodies either way it means the end result of the vaccine has been achieved, no matter if it was through natural or artificial means.

[Bronbron23]

Exactly. The vaccines goal and the immune systems goal are the same ~ produce antibodies against the pathogen. Which is why it makes no sense the mainstream media and all the "doctors" they parade on their broadcasts (read: in this case paid shills) aren't discussing natural immunity as a substitute for a vax pass. If you have antibodies either way it means the end result of the vaccine has been achieved, no matter if it was through natural or artificial means.

This is pretty much what I'm getting at. Conventional wisdom and common sense said natural immunity was as good or better yet the experts and doctors refuse to acknowledge this. Only recently has fauci qnd the cdc start to finally admit this snd that's only because the few journalists out there who have integrity actually asked real questions that fauci and the cdc couldn't duck.

[Off the Court]

Exactly. The vaccines goal and the immune systems goal are the same ~ produce antibodies against the pathogen. Which is why it makes no sense the mainstream media and all the "doctors" they parade on their broadcasts (read: in this case paid shills) aren't discussing natural immunity as a substitute for a vax pass. If you have antibodies either way it means the end result of the vaccine has been achieved, no matter if it was through natural or artificial means.

Not disagreeing but a vax pass is a different topic altogether aside from the OP's topic of what doctors do and don't know. The main objective of the vaccine is to prevent death and from that standpoint the vaccine has been very efficient. Doctors can see people that are deathly ill from the virus and they can see it is overwhelmingly unvaccinated people and in some cases even young healthy people. That is and should be a driving factor for doctors to suggest the vaccine. Contrary to what some believe the shot is free and doctors don't make very much money from it. You don't even need a prescription for it.

[Bronbron23]

Not disagreeing but a vax pass is a different topic altogether aside from the OP's topic of what doctors do and don't know. The main objective of the vaccine is to prevent death and from that standpoint the vaccine has been very efficient. Doctors can see people that are deathly ill from the virus and they can see it is overwhelmingly unvaccinated people and in some cases even young healthy people. That is and should be a driving factor for doctors to suggest the vaccine. Contrary to what some believe the shot is free and doctors don't make very much money from it. You don't even need a prescription for it.

I've never said the vaccine isn't good. It works and should be taken by alot of people. There's also tens of millions of people who don't need it but doctors, medica and the cdc are forcing these groups to get them anyway. Doctors are spreading just as much misinformation as the average joe is. Everytime a doctor says everyone should get vaccinated they're spreading miss information.

[PistonsFan#21]

It is in fact exactly about you want to hear. The science that you have decided to accept reinforces what you already believe. There are many studies that show that the vax does reduce transmission rates,
and that "natural immunity" is a myth, or at least not nearly the bulletproof vest that it's proponents want you to think it is. You could find that out if you did a little research with the idea of "Maybe I'm wrong." but you won't do that.

Natural immunity is a myth? :oldlol: Not a single doctor would be willing to make that claim. Only people that have no basic biology or science knowledge could make such a claim.

From the CDC:
Active Immunity
results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Active immunity can be acquired through natural immunity or vaccine-induced immunity.

Natural immunity is acquired from exposure to the disease organism through infection with the actual disease.
Vaccine-induced immunity is acquired through the introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination.

Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it. Active immunity is long-lasting, and sometimes life-long.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm

The fact that some people would even question this fact makes me realize that there is a lot of clueless people in society and those same people think everyone is as clueless as them when it comes to those subjects. Newsflash: you don't need a PhD and 10 years in medical school to understand or read up on basic science principles, you even start learning most of it in high school.

[BurningHammer]

I've never said the vaccine isn't good. It works and should be taken by alot of people.


There's also tens of millions of people who don't need it but doctors, medica and the cdc are forcing these groups to get them anyway.


Doctors are spreading just as much misinformation as the average joe is.


Everytime a doctor says everyone should get vaccinated they're spreading miss information.

Very interesting how your brain works from Point A to Point B with troll logic in one post. It gets worse for each sentence. :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

Very interesting how your brain works from Point A to Point B with troll logic in one post. It gets worse for each sentence. :oldlol:

Which one of those statements is false and why?

[BurningHammer]

Natural immunity is a myth? :oldlol: Not a single doctor would be willing to make that claim. Only people that have no basic biology or science knowledge could make such a claim.

From the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm

The fact that some people would even question this fact makes me realize that there is a lot of clueless people in society and those same people think everyone is as clueless as them when it comes to those subjects. Newsflash: you don't need a PhD and 10 years in medical school to understand or read up on basic science principles, you even start learning most of it in high school.

https://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/difference-between-active-passive-immunity

Pros and Cons of Active ImmunityA benefit of active immunity is that it lasts longer than passive immunity. Active immunity creates a certain kind of cell that has a long memory, and when they recognize a dangerous pathogen, their memory is triggered. The cells multiply and alert other parts of the immune system that something familiar is back, and they work together to fight something they know exactly how to defeat.*
*Although you typically take in foreign substances that aren’t life-threatening, it’s possible that you may come across something dangerous. Because active immunity is random, there’s more room for illness and disease.
Similarly, active immunity doesn’t protect you against mutations of diseases that your body already has antibodies to. When diseases mutate, they change structure in ways that your immune system isn’t prepared to fight.



At the end there are more to read and learn. That's why many need PhD and 10 years in med school to learn further. :ohwell:

[BurningHammer]

Which one of those statements is false and why?


I've never said the vaccine isn't good. It works and should be taken by alot of people.
If you mean vaccines in general, it is true. If you specifically mean COVID-19 vaccines, it technically is true so far.

There's also tens of millions of people who don't need it but doctors, medica and the cdc are forcing these groups to get them anyway.
False. Natural immunity only protects the certain strain the person being infected with, not all of them. It's the reason why flu shots are annually; generic flu viruses mutate all the time. Also, at least in the US, they haven't pulled the CCP and actually forced everyone to vaccinate neither. Otherwise Kyrie would be beasting in NBA right now :D

Doctors are spreading just as much misinformation as the average joe is.
Not exactly true. While there are crooked doctors around, there still are system to curve those crooked doctors from spreading misinformation within its medical community such as revoking medical license and such. There virtually is nothing to completely stop some nobodies to make up stuff and spread them online.

Everytime a doctor says everyone should get vaccinated they're spreading miss information.
And then it is concluded that doctors are spreading miss information :D

[Bronbron23]

If you mean vaccines in general, it is true. If you specifically mean COVID-19 vaccines, it technically is true so far.

False. Natural immunity only protects the certain strain the person being infected with, not all of them. It's the reason why flu shots are annually; generic flu viruses mutate all the time. Also, at least in the US, they haven't pulled the CCP and actually forced everyone to vaccinate neither. Otherwise Kyrie would be beasting in NBA right now :D

Not exactly true. While there are crooked doctors around, there still are system to curve those crooked doctors from spreading misinformation within its medical community such as revoking medical license and such. There virtually is nothing to completely stop some nobodies to make up stuff and spread them online.

And then it is concluded that doctors are spreading miss information :D

Not true at all. Both the vaccines and natural immunity are effective in reducing deaths and hospitalizations for both alpha and delta. Antibodies to covid regardless if it's natural or a vaccine work for both so not sure where u gor that from.

As far as doctors, like everyone they're spreading misinformation on both sides. Usually like alot of things the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vaxxers are on the everyone needs to be vaccinated extreme overreaction tip. Antivaxers are on the nobody needs it they're trying to take are freedoms away tip. I'm more in the middle. I think alot of people need it and should get it but i think there's alot of people who don't need it and should be able to make their own decisions.

[PistonsFan#21]

https://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/difference-between-active-passive-immunity


At the end there are more to read and learn. That's why many need PhD and 10 years in med school to learn further. :ohwell:


Which part of that link you posted claims that natural immunity is a myth?

You posted a link about active immunity which includes both natural immunity AND vaccine induced immunity. The last paragraph in bold applies to both natural immunity AND vaccines (this is exactly what they are referring to when they mention active immunity, look up the CDC link i just posted for reference). Again this should be common knowledge but people that need a refresher can do a simple 10 minute google search. This isn't PhD or ground breaking information. The vaccine they have been working on and rushed out in less than a year is in fact based on the original strain of the virus, not the Delta or any of the future mutations which explains the vaccines drop off in efficacy against those newer variants

Any more questions?

[BurningHammer]

Not true at all. Both the vaccines and natural immunity are effective in reducing deaths and hospitalizations for both alpha and delta. Antibodies to covid regardless if it's natural or a vaccine work for both so not sure where u gor that from.

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/natural-immunity-vaccine-delta-variant


All infections provide some degree of protection from future sickness by producing antibodies. "When you get infected with a virus, you make an immune response against it, just like you do with a vaccine," Seema S. Lakdawala (http://www.mmg.pitt.edu/person/seema-s-lakdawala), PhD, an associate professor of microbiology and molecular genetics at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, tells Health. According to Lakdawala, the immune system creates antibodies and T-cells to the specific virus, which respond when they "see" that virus again.

That immune response may help fight off a further infection, Amesh A. Adalja (https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-people/adalja/), MD, a senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health's Center for Health Security, tells Health. The problem is SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, continues to mutate, so that original protection may not be effective on new mutations. "When you get infected, you become immune to viruses that are similar," says Lakdawala. "But the whole point of viruses is to continue to spread, so they evolve and change."

[PistonsFan#21]

If you mean vaccines in general, it is true. If you specifically mean COVID-19 vaccines, it technically is true so far.

False. Natural immunity only protects the certain strain the person being infected with, not all of them. It's the reason why flu shots are annually; generic flu viruses mutate all the time. Also, at least in the US, they haven't pulled the CCP and actually forced everyone to vaccinate neither. Otherwise Kyrie would be beasting in NBA right now :D

Not exactly true. While there are crooked doctors around, there still are system to curve those crooked doctors from spreading misinformation within its medical community such as revoking medical license and such. There virtually is nothing to completely stop some nobodies to make up stuff and spread them online.

And then it is concluded that doctors are spreading miss information :D

Do you not see how you contradict yourself with that argument? The vaccine was designed for the Alpha variant. They haven't redesigned it for the Delta mutation so how is it supposed to protect more than natural immunity? Are you trying to claim that this vaccine is somehow able to protect against all the different variants while even the flu vaccine that we had used and studied since the 1940s can't?

By the way every single link that you posted so far are saying that natural immunity might still provide some protection against the different variants. Here's another one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1


Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

[BurningHammer]

Do you not see how you contradict yourself with that argument? The vaccine was designed for the Alpha variant. They haven't redesigned it for the Delta mutation so how is it supposed to protect more than natural immunity? Are you trying to claim that this vaccine is somehow able to protect against all the different variants while even the flu vaccine that we had used and studied since the 1940s can't?
https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-variant-protect-vaccines-1635216


He told Newsweek: "Natural immunity is a good thing in general and can be robust in many people." Chin-Hong said that the trouble with relying on natural immunity is that it could vary from person to person, and there is no telling how long it may last. The effectiveness of natural immunity can depend on when a person was infected, he said.
In addition, natural immunity may not protect well against all variants of COVID. A person infected with a new variant may not have immunity from a previous infection with a different strain of the virus.




Dr. Assoumou said the best course of action in protecting against Delta is the one already being employed: vaccination.
Vaccination provides a "high level of protection" against COVID, she said. "We know that the current vaccines that are authorized or approved in the U.S. all work well against the Delta variant. Vaccination is also recommended for individuals who have recovered from COVID-19."
Chin-Hong echoed this sentiment: "The best protection against Delta is science. And of course, vaccines. One million percent."




By the way every single link that you posted so far are saying that natural immunity might still provide some protection against the different variants.
The keyword is "might still".


Here's another one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1


This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice. (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/what-unrefereed-preprint)

[Bronbron23]

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/natural-immunity-vaccine-delta-variant

A much bigger study in Isreal proved natural immunity was as good or better than the vaccine.

Plus there's alot of may in that article and passage you quoted. That's what cdc did forever when it comes the spread of delta. They said we think or hope or it may but they didn't really know at the time. Now they finally admit the spread of Delta is pretty much the same regardless if your vaccinated or not.

[Cleverness]

Ask your family med doctor what your absolute risk reduction of hospitalization and death is after becoming vaccinated.


Doctors spent 8 years taking medical course work to even become a Doctor

And how many of those years did those family med docs study Covid-19, the costs & benefits of NPIs for Covid-19, and the benefits and risks of the Covid-19 vaccinations?


have mandatory minimum required amounts of re-training

How much "re-training" do family med docs do on Covid-19 each year?


have mandatory minimum required amounts of re-training and always receive the latest updated peer reviewed research about pressing issues such as pandemics. They are required to receive more of these annual courses

Interesting. When you say doctors "always receive the latest updated peer reviewed research about pressing issues such as pandemics," are you saying all family med doctors or only some of them? If only some, what % of them?

Can you point to the requirement family med docs must have to "receive more of these annual courses"?

Bronbron23 looks to be correct here once again.
"They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media..."



btw, still waiting on hiphop to back up his claims here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495316-Hypothetically-if-the-virus-truly-was-a-hoax-or-basically-a-common-cold-flu-then&p=14380384&viewfull=1#post14380384

and respond here:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495316-Hypothetically-if-the-virus-truly-was-a-hoax-or-basically-a-common-cold-flu-then&p=14380394&viewfull=1#post14380394

[tpols]

False. Natural immunity only protects the certain strain the person being infected with, not all of them.


Same thing could be said for the vaccine and the mass occurrence of breakthrough delta cases. You just played yourself.

I can't believe these dudes are saying our immune systems are a myth and "toilet research". Its amazing how stupid the majority of people are. And that's exactly why we are in the situation were in now getting ****ed around with by the people at the top. Its too easy for them...

Guy actually said this.



and that "natural immunity" is a myth.

[Nanners]

its true, the human immune system didnt exist (or was toilet quality) until pfizer came up with an experimental gene therapy that (supposedly) gives you a marginally lower risk of dying from a virus with a 99.9% survival rate

[n00bie]

its true, the human immune system didnt exist (or was toilet quality) until pfizer came up with an experimental gene therapy that (supposedly) gives you a marginally lower risk of dying from a virus with a 99.9% survival rate

Immune system helps, but there's been a lot of instances in history where a lot of people died from viruses & diseases. i.e. when we brought diseases over to the native Indians.

If we reached a point where we have the technological capability to save lives, why wouldn't we use it?

[Bronbron23]

Immune system helps, but there's been a lot of instances in history where a lot of people died from viruses & diseases. i.e. when we brought diseases over to the native Indians.

If we reached a point where we have the technological capability to save lives, why wouldn't we use it?

We should but it shouldn't be forced on those who don't need it. Small pocks killed natives at a crazy high rate at all ages. Covid dosn't. for the most part kills old people and unhealthy people. Those are the people who should be taking the vaccine. Forcing groups who are super low risk to take a vaccine for something that affects mostly higher risk groups is stupid. It be like making children take a vaccine for heart attacks if it existed. Think about how dumb you would think that was if the cdc, government and media tried to force or convince young people to take a vaccine for heart attacks.

[Nanners]

Immune system helps, but there's been a lot of instances in history where a lot of people died from viruses & diseases. i.e. when we brought diseases over to the native Indians.

If we reached a point where we have the technological capability to save lives, why wouldn't we use it?

Great point, because we all know that the viruses that (supposedly) wiped out the natives were 99.9% survivable for them, like covid is for modern humans.

[tpols]

Great point, because we all know that the viruses that (supposedly) wiped out the natives were 99.9% survivable for them, like covid is for modern humans.

I'm reading articles that say small pox wiped out 30-40% of native American tribes. That's literally bodies piling in the streets and would be impossible to not notice even with no TV or internet.

Meanwhile the USA has the same exact death rate of .7-.9% that its had every year for the past decade. And people have the balls to compare this to true epidemics.

Its amazing.

[Bronbron23]

I'm reading articles that say small pox wiped out 30-40% of native American tribes. That's literally bodies piling in the streets and would be impossible to not notice even with no TV or internet.

Meanwhile the USA has the same exact death rate of .7-.9% that its had every year for the past decade. And people have the balls to compare this to true epidemics.

Its amazing.

Yeah man its insane. If we didn't have televisions or internet for the media to fear monger we would never know there was a pandemic.

[Nanners]

Yeah man its insane. If we didn't have televisions or internet for the media to fear monger we would never know there was a pandemic.

This is precisely why there are still mask mandates... we all know masks do absolutely nothing to stop the spread of covid or any other respiratory virus, but they're also the only method the elites have thought of that can serve as a publicly visual reminder that were in a "pandemic"

[n00bie]

I'm reading articles that say small pox wiped out 30-40% of native American tribes. That's literally bodies piling in the streets and would be impossible to not notice even with no TV or internet.

Meanwhile the USA has the same exact death rate of .7-.9% that its had every year for the past decade. And people have the balls to compare this to true epidemics.

Its amazing.

True but native tribes also didn't have healthcare like we did. If we didn't have hospitals, doctors or ventilators, there'd be a lot more deaths.

It's tough to really do an exact comparison, but at this point I think forcing vaccinations on everyone is pretty pointless.

[PistonsFan#21]

https://www.newsweek.com/natural-covid-immunity-delta-variant-protect-vaccines-1635216






The keyword is "might still".

So you don't want to pay atrention to a study because it hasn't been peer reviewed yet but you have no problem citing a doctor that doesn't present any concrete evidence and just keeps on repeating "natural immunity may do this and that"....ok.

When you find his peer review study that proves natural immunity is a myth let us know.

[BurningHammer]

This is precisely why there are still mask mandates... we all know masks do absolutely nothing to stop the spread of covid or any other respiratory virus, but they're also the only method the elites have thought of that can serve as a publicly visual reminder that were in a "pandemic"

:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

This is precisely why there are still mask mandates... we all know masks do absolutely nothing to stop the spread of covid or any other respiratory virus, but they're also the only method the elites have thought of that can serve as a publicly visual reminder that were in a "pandemic"

Interesting take. I agree without masks or media we wouldn't know there's a pandemic but i don't think that's why they mandate them. While i don't agree with mandating masks anymore than mandating vaccines i do think they both work when you have the proper mask and used properly. The only reason why i question masks now is because most people don't have the right ones and they aren't disposing of them enough so making everyone wear in proper masks with educating them on proper use seems senseless to me but alot of things about covid seem senseless from the start of it.

[Cleverness]

True but native tribes also didn't have healthcare like we did. If we didn't have hospitals, doctors or ventilators, there'd be a lot more deaths.

It's tough to really do an exact comparison, but at this point I think forcing vaccinations on everyone is pretty pointless.

About half the deaths with Covid are from nursing home residents 78+ years old... I don't think smallpox had a median age of death above average life expectancy, as is the case with Covid-19.

Also, I don't think hospitals, doctors, & ventilators (lol) saved many people from death with Covid-19 either.


It's tough to really do an exact comparison, but at this point I think forcing vaccinations on everyone is pretty pointless.


Great point, because we all know that the viruses that (supposedly) wiped out the natives were 99.9% survivable for them, like covid is for modern humans.

:cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

I don’t even care about the vaccine aspect, but it’s absolutely insane to me that people with no medical knowledge or experience legitimately believe they know more about medical treatments and science than doctors :lol

[jstern]

I don’t even care about the vaccine aspect, but it’s absolutely insane to me that people with no medical knowledge or experience legitimately believe they know more about medical treatments and science than doctors :lol

You really think that's it? That simplistic. That people who don't want to take the vaccine is all just based on their imagination in a vacuum. AND, that there are no doctors, scientists, experts that are not too high on the vaccine based on data?

You might be projecting an extreme lack of curiosity on the matter.

[Off the Court]

You really think that's it? That simplistic. That people who don't want to take the vaccine is all just based on their imagination in a vacuum. AND, that there are no doctors, scientists, experts that are not too high on the vaccine based on data?

You might be projecting an extreme lack of curiosity on the matter.
Your vaccine views were determined by sheepish political tribalism. Right vs Left made the decision for you and a blind man can see it. You'll twist the next celebrity death around the vaccine because that is what your tribe told you to do.

[John_Connor]

Your vaccine views were determined by sheepish political tribalism. Right vs Left made the decision for you and a blind man can see it. You'll twist the next celebrity death around the vaccine because that is what your tribe told you to do.

you know there's physical data out from Pfizer right? it's not a conspiracy or political agenda

our assumptions were correct


https://youtu.be/7YOD9drZasM

[Off the Court]

What were your assumptions? Because assumptions were all over the place. From microchips to instant death population control to myocarditis which was shown to be .0006%

I looked at the documents, not the all of them because no one did that, but I looked at the fact checking. The docs basically showed that the vaccine is safe and severe adverse reactions were beyond rare. Which is consistent with the fact that 77% of the US population has been vaccinated and we are all just fine.

[jstern]

Your vaccine views were determined by sheepish political tribalism. Right vs Left made the decision for you and a blind man can see it. You'll twist the next celebrity death around the vaccine because that is what your tribe told you to do.

You're another person who is fully projecting. There are zero politicians that I follow on the matter. You know full well that I didn't even join the Corona discussion until over a year into the pandemic when I started seeing all the BS. And you have also seem my posts with my thoughts, reasoning, and the data that it's based on. You cannot understand why a person like myself would not want to get forced to get vaccinated for something that has an average death age that is greater than natural life expectancy. Over 80 years old, and with an average of 3 to 5 comorbidities. You cannot understand why a person like me would be outraged that in order to get the emergency approval for kids, Pfizer classified Maddie De Garay's case as a simple stomach ache. You would gladly take it because you were told to, and because as you have shown by your projection, it's what your political side is doing. You could see what they did to Maddie de Garay and her mother, who is a Liberal and up to that point was a major vaccine cuck, and feel absolutely no sympathy for that little girl because it's a negative against Joe Biden and the other vaccine cucks. That makes you a criminal.

[John_Connor]

What were your assumptions? Because assumptions were all over the place. From microchips to instant death population control to myocarditis which was shown to be .0006%

I looked at the documents, not the all of them because no one did that, but I looked at the fact checking. The docs basically showed that the vaccine is safe and severe adverse reactions were beyond rare. Which is consistent with the fact that 77% of the US population has been vaccinated and we are all just fine.

it says 1,403 people (3.3% of those in Pfizers research had adverse cardiovascular problems from the vaccines


this is straight from pfizer

[Off the Court]

it says 1,403 people (3.3% of those in Pfizers research had adverse cardiovascular problems from the vaccines


this is straight from pfizer

Cardiovascular issues include things like flushing and palpations which many already have. Obviously we aren't seeing 3% of the population dying of heat attacks. As far as I can see heart related illnesses are close to par with precovid days.

You know what though, we don't need to waste our time debating this. If you thought the Will Smith slap had been going on too long? lol This horse has been beaten dead a million times over. It's too late for you to save anyone from the vaccine and it's pointless to try and coerce those who haven't. No one is going to budge so what's the point?


I'll just predict this, if you live long enough, at some point in your life mRNA tech will be available to you to prevent cancers and other things that may run in your family. Hopefully when that day comes you won't let a hard head get in the way. Because it's coming, this vaccine was just the start.

[theman93]

9-pages of side effects, 158,893 adverse events, 42,086 case reports, 1,223 fatalities in Pfizer's first three months and a record death rate among American millennials in the second half of 2021.

Safe and effective.

[Axe]

Oh shit, here goes coach again. :oldlol:

[John_Connor]

Cardiovascular issues include things like flushing and palpations which many already have. Obviously we aren't seeing 3% of the population dying of heat attacks. As far as I can see heart related illnesses are close to par with precovid days.

You know what though, we don't need to waste our time debating this. If you thought the Will Smith slap had been going on too long? lol This horse has been beaten dead a million times over. It's too late for you to save anyone from the vaccine and it's pointless to try and coerce those who haven't. No one is going to budge so what's the point?


I'll just predict this, if you live long enough, at some point in your life mRNA tech will be available to you to prevent cancers and other things that may run in your family. Hopefully when that day comes you won't let a hard head get in the way. Because it's coming, this vaccine was just the start.

so you're OK taking something that has a 3% chance of giving you a problem you have to deal with for the rest of your life and will likely take years off your life just to avoid a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying from covid if you're under 70 and not morbidly obese


and that's just cardiovascular issues.. there's thousands of other kinds of adverse effects that are also life threatening or can cause serious issues


seeing 100 soccer players drop dead this year was kind of odd wasn't it

[Off the Court]

so you're OK taking something that has a 3% chance of giving you a problem you have to deal with for the rest of your life and will likely take years off your life just to avoid a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying from covid if you're under 70 and not morbidly obese


and that's just cardiovascular issues.. there's thousands of other kinds of adverse effects that are also life threatening or can cause serious issues


seeing 100 soccer players drop dead this year was kind of odd wasn't it

That's not what the report showed :oldlol: :facepalm

here (https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/scicheck-posts-misinterpret-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-safety-monitoring-document/)

I took the vaccine and I'm as healthy as I've ever been.

The soccer thing is fake news too. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/01/how-falsehood-athletes-dying-covid-vaccines-spread/) Debunked. Most you see on those vids are from years ago. How come there are no American athletes dropping dead?

[John_Connor]

That's not what the report showed :oldlol: :facepalm

here (https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/scicheck-posts-misinterpret-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-safety-monitoring-document/)

I took the vaccine and I'm as healthy as I've ever been.

The soccer thing is fake news too. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/01/how-falsehood-athletes-dying-covid-vaccines-spread/) Debunked. Most you see on those vids are from years ago. How come there are no American athletes dropping dead?

it's at 11 minutes into the video posted . 3.3% ... not your 0.0000006 lmao

[John_Connor]

9-pages of side effects, 158,893 adverse events, 42,086 case reports, 1,223 fatalities in Pfizer's first three months and a record death rate among American millennials in the second half of 2021.

Safe and effective.

address this as well

[jstern]

it says 1,403 people (3.3% of those in Pfizers research had adverse cardiovascular problems from the vaccines


this is straight from pfizer

Keep in mind the corruption, where they are literally ignoring people with adverse events such as Maddie de Garay and Brianne Dressen (Though she's from Moderna.) They do whatever they can to not report side effects, because too much money is on the line. There was even a whistle blower on the matter.

The best thing we can go by now is the VAERS report. It's the only system we have. It's self reporting and not well known, which means that whatever the numbers are, they have to be multiplied by at LEAST 8 times. And no, not just anyone can report a side effect. You have to get vaccine numbers and all these other information, with a warning on any page stating that it's a federal crime to report wrong information.

https://images2.imgbox.com/49/b4/MeOLIiRF_o.png

Those are very horrifying numbers.

[John_Connor]

Keep in mind the corruption, where they are literally ignoring people with adverse events such as Maddie de Garay and Brianne Dressen (Though she's from Moderna.) They do whatever they can to not report side effects, because too much money is on the line. There was even a whistle blower on the matter.

The best thing we can go by now is the VAERS report. It's the only system we have. It's self reporting and not well known, which means that whatever the numbers are, they have to be multiplied by at LEAST 8 times. And no, not just anyone can report a side effect. You have to get vaccine numbers and all these other information, with a warning on any page stating that it's a federal crime to report wrong information.

https://images2.imgbox.com/49/b4/MeOLIiRF_o.png

Those are very horrifying numbers.

lmao 30 years worth of deaths = safe and effective

[Off the Court]

it's at 11 minutes into the video posted . 3.3% ... not your 0.0000006 lmao

the .000006 is the odds of getting myocarditis.

your 3.3% is anything cardio related which includes simple things like facial flushing or heart palpitations.

No where does it say 3.3% will have life long heart issues :oldlol:

[Off the Court]

Here are the "common" listed side effects of Aspirin:

rash,
gastrointestinal ulcerations,
abdominal pain,
upset stomach,
heartburn,
drowsiness,
headache,
cramping,
nausea,
gastritis, and
bleeding

https://www.rxlist.com/aspirin-side-effects-drug-center.htm


Probably a huge documented study on it somewhere. Be careful next time you get a headache.

[John_Connor]

Here are the "common" listed side effects of Aspirin:

rash,
gastrointestinal ulcerations,
abdominal pain,
upset stomach,
heartburn,
drowsiness,
headache,
cramping,
nausea,
gastritis, and
bleeding

https://www.rxlist.com/aspirin-side-effects-drug-center.htm


Probably a huge documented study on it somewhere. Be careful next time you get a headache.

and guess how many aspirin I've taken in my life... zero

suck it up bitch. tough it out. it's just the flu you f*cking idiot. 60,000 people die from that in the states each year and there's been a safe vaccine for almost a century

be a man. take some vitamins and lose some weight you fat asshole

try going for a walk. you don't need a damn vaccine

[Off the Court]

I do the flu vaccine too. I'll continue to use medicine and hospitals. So will you probably. You'll just declare this one to be the end of the world but not the others.

[GimmeThat]

because the vaxxers want to spread the message that it's okay to not be a know it all, and it's okay to not be a know it all because it's okay to have absolutely 0 income at the moment, and it's okay to have absolutely 0 income at the moment is because for all the joy you have built up, you still need to enjoy.

[John_Connor]

I do the flu vaccine too. I'll continue to use medicine and hospitals. So will you probably. You'll just declare this one to be the end of the world but not the others.

getting sick is good for you. it builds your immune system. if you went off those vaccines a common cold would kill your ass

[Off the Court]

getting sick is good for you. it builds your immune system. if you went off those vaccines a common cold would kill your ass
No it wouldn't. :facepalm The flu vaccine injects dead flu into you so that your immune system does the exact same thing it does with the actual flu. That's how vaccines work, they trick your immune system into doing the same thing it does while sick. Covid vaccine works that way as well.

[GimmeThat]

getting sick is good for you. it builds your immune system.

that's a concept built on the stone age of dieting where eat for muscles instead of organs

[Off the Court]

This is why dudes need to listen to doctors :oldlol:

[John_Connor]

This is why dudes need to listen to doctors :oldlol:

when you use artificial substances your body stops producing things as much naturally. same way if a guy abuses testosterone he will have a hard time producing it naturally if he goes off the supplements. if you became dependent on vaccines then your bodies natural immunities would take a hit and you would be at a higher risk of infection


natural immunities last way longer than the vaccines.

what part of all of this isn't something a doctor will tell you.

[GimmeThat]

when you use artificial substances your body stops producing things as much naturally. same way if a guy abuses testosterone he will have a hard time producing it naturally if he goes off the supplements. if you became dependent on vaccines then your bodies natural immunities would take a hit and you would be at a higher risk of infection


natural immunities last way longer than the vaccines.

what part of all of this isn't something a doctor will tell you.

you must be eating arbitrary water's shit

[Off the Court]

The flu vaccine injects real dead flu strains into you so that your immune system literally does the exact same thing it would if you had the flu. It IS the natural immunity. The only difference is that the flu cells are dead and not alive.

Taking testosterone, something your body naturally produces, is much different than that. These are things a doctor can easily inform you of and in much greater detail than I can.

[GimmeThat]

The flu vaccine injects real dead flu strains into you so that your immune system literally does the exact same thing it would if you had the flu. It IS the natural immunity. The only difference is that the flu cells are dead and not alive.


sounds like juicing

[John_Connor]

The flu vaccine injects real dead flu strains into you so that your immune system literally does the exact same thing it would if you had the flu. It IS the natural immunity. The only difference is that the flu cells are dead and not alive.

Taking testosterone, something your body naturally produces, is much different than that. These are things a doctor can easily inform you of and in much greater detail than I can.

if it was the same thing the vaccines would last more than 3 or 4 months. natural immunity lasts twice as long

[John_Connor]

https://youtu.be/9bamaEMftg4


10:29

[n00bie]

Family doctors don't know anymore about covid then we do. They don't do their own studies on it. They aren't part of the few studies that have been done on covid. They get all their info from the cdc and media who've been wrong on thing from the start.

It's such a low iq statement.

Serious question. If you aren't asking your own doctor.. who are you asking? Social media doctors?

[GimmeThat]

Serious question. If you aren't asking your own doctor.. who are you asking? Social media doctors?

sounds like a statement originated from Russell Peters "Be a Man, Do the Right Thing."

[jstern]

I do the flu vaccine too. I'll continue to use medicine and hospitals. So will you probably. You'll just declare this one to be the end of the world but not the others.

This is where Off the Court starts to show his IQ. Where he thinks that if someone is someone is against these experimental vaccines that means they are against any other type of medicine or even going to a hospital.


Serious question. If you aren't asking your own doctor.. who are you asking? Social media doctors?

Doctor's are just your average day people, with different opinions. You have one doctor that tells you the get the shot, but you might have another doctor that cautiously tells you that it's ok if you don't get the Covid vaccine. Cautiously because they could get in trouble. What if your doctor wasn't a vaccine cuck? Would that mean that all doctors are not for pushing the vaccines?

Doctor's are people with a title. The average IQ is 100, and that's a very flawed IQ. But enough to get a person to pass their classes if they study. I had the Corona back in January. No cough, no runny nose. It was as mild as can be. We're in the Omicron era, and I was shocked a few weeks later when my doctor was pushing me to get the vaccine. An experimental vaccine, for a heavily mutated virus from late 2019. The hell with immunology 101 and the fact that I have a robust immunity for something that was so mild for me in the first place. My doctor doesn't know jack shit, he's strictly following guidelines. There's no creativity, thinking going on. There's no looking at or scrutinizing the data and looking at all the arguments, and the lying and collusion to push and sell more vaccines. And even if the particular doctors have the curiosity, they just don't have the time to really dig into it at the deepest of levels.

The reason why I like him as a doctor is because he follows his routine, like with any other job, but prints out a summary of what was discussed. But other than that the title of doctor doesn't give them super human ability to be an expert on anything.

And then looking at your comment. It shows how little curiosity you have to even know the arguments of people and why they might be against the vaccine. You seem to follow what you're told by an authority without question, and thus you must be assuming that those who have an opposite opinion on Covid are also strictly doing so because another authority figure told them. It all seems based on what an authority figure says, and blindly following.

There are thousands of doctors and scientists against these vaccines, and the mandates, and what's going on. Yet, based on your comment you seem to be completely unaware of the fact. And no, these doctors are not dictating to people on social media, with people blindly following. They are showing the data and deeply analyzing it out in the open.

And then beyond that, you even have things like the VAERS where you can actually look at the numbers and actually use you own logic and get something out of it. But even though such numbers are posted on this thread, they don't seem to register.

[tpols]

Serious question. If you aren't asking your own doctor.. who are you asking? Social media doctors?

Doctors are bought off dude. In Australia and other stringent places doctor will lose their medical license for writing a medical exemption for not taking the vaccine. Imagine devoting decades of schooling to become a doctor, going into massive debt to make a huge salary, and then having all of that stripped away from you? Of course they are going to do what theyre told outside a few outliers like Dr. Robert Malone and that 80 something year old French Nobel prize winner. I guess because they're already old and set for life money wise anyway so the incentive to lie or go along get along isn't there.

[n00bie]

This is where Off the Court starts to show his IQ. Where he thinks that if someone is someone is against these experimental vaccines that means they are against any other type of medicine or even going to a hospital.



Doctor's are just your average day people, with different opinions. You have one doctor that tells you the get the shot, but you might have another doctor that cautiously tells you that it's ok if you don't get the Covid vaccine. Cautiously because they could get in trouble. What if your doctor wasn't a vaccine cuck? Would that mean that all doctors are not for pushing the vaccines?

Doctor's are people with a title. The average IQ is 100, and that's a very flawed IQ. But enough to get a person to pass their classes if they study. I had the Corona back in January. No cough, no runny nose. It was as mild as can be. We're in the Omicron era, and I was shocked a few weeks later when my doctor was pushing me to get the vaccine. An experimental vaccine, for a heavily mutated virus from late 2019. The hell with immunology 101 and the fact that I have a robust immunity for something that was so mild for me in the first place. My doctor doesn't know jack shit, he's strictly following guidelines. There's no creativity, thinking going on. There's no looking at or scrutinizing the data and looking at all the arguments, and the lying and collusion to push and sell more vaccines. And even if the particular doctors have the curiosity, they just don't have the time to really dig into it at the deepest of levels.

The reason why I like him as a doctor is because he follows his routine, like with any other job, but prints out a summary of what was discussed. But other than that the title of doctor doesn't give them super human ability to be an expert on anything.

And then looking at your comment. It shows how little curiosity you have to even know the arguments of people and why they might be against the vaccine. You seem to follow what you're told by an authority without question, and thus you must be assuming that those who have an opposite opinion on Covid are also strictly doing so because another authority figure told them. It all seems based on what an authority figure says, and blindly following.

There are thousands of doctors and scientists against these vaccines, and the mandates, and what's going on. Yet, based on your comment you seem to be completely unaware of the fact. And no, these doctors are not dictating to people on social media, with people blindly following. They are showing the data and deeply analyzing it out in the open.

And then beyond that, you even have things like the VAERS where you can actually look at the numbers and actually use you own logic and get something out of it. But even though such numbers are posted on this thread, they don't seem to register.

I get that you shouldn't trust ALL doctors.. but your own doctor.. you chose to trust him / her. That's why they're your doctor.

I just find it interesting that people will rather listen to some random person on twitter than a medical professional that they chose to be a consultant for their health.