here's what people were REALLY thinking before and during 2014 Finals

[3ba11]

.
Before the series: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?339922-Its-absolutely-impossible-for-the-Spurs-to-win-the-2014-Finals&p=10094122

During the series: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?341213-Post-your-level-headed-reasonable-2014-NBA-Finals-Game-3-observations


Ultimately, Lebron's inferior style or way of playing was massively exposed, yet everyone sweeps it under the rug or has denial about it... "b-b-but the Spurs just got hot"... lol - so did the Mavs and Magic and Warriors - ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. that's why ball-dominance is inferior strategy to ball movement, which wears down defenses more and wins the battle of attrition. The best defense is a good offense

[Gudo]

Lol, how many times must Lebron lose as heavy favorite?

[3ba11]

Lol, how many times must Lebron lose as heavy favorite?


The 2009 Magic were one of the biggest underdogs to ever win a playoff series.

Then Shaq and Jamison were added to a 66-win league favorite, so the 10' Cavs were heavily favored over the injured Celtics.

Then Lebron was favored against the Mavs and Spurs (lost to both)

So people just lie about his career.. His career is a lie. He isn't good at basketball compared to many guys and can't even take contested jumpers or win with high scoring (too ball-dominant or inefficient at the higher jumpshooting volumes)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

During the series page 1 thread:

leonard destroyed lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

The Spurs were literally the favorites in that series, so 3ball straight up lying in this thread, per usual :lol

[tpols]

Before the series nobody thought it would be the biggest Finals ass whooping of all time. (by point differential)

Only after did everybody lament on some supposed team disparity.

Kawhi was 18/1 underdog for FMVP. LeBron was 6/5. Which basically means LeBron was 1800% more likely to win it over him. If you put money on that you'd be rich.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hothothoops.com/platform/amp/2014/6/4/5779128/complete-2014-nba-finals-odds-and-props-released-heat-spurs

[1987_Lakers]

OP, didn't you say Miami had HCA in that series? :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

OP, didn't you say Miami had HCA in that series? :oldlol:
Yep, the infamous AC game that took place in Miami. And this clown thinks he can lecture us on a series he didn't even know where the most notable event occurred or who had HCA :oldlol:

[jmcwilliams]

The 2009 Magic were one of the biggest underdogs to ever win a playoff series.

Then Shaq and Jamison were added to a 66-win league favorite, so the 10' Cavs were heavily favored over the injured Celtics.

Then Lebron was favored against the Mavs and Spurs (lost to both)

So people just lie about his career.. His career is a lie. He isn't good at basketball compared to many guys and can't even take contested jumpers or win with high scoring (too ball-dominant or inefficient at the higher jumpshooting volumes)

calling his career A lie is going A bit far. We have watched and he has clearly done great things. However, I understand what you are saying. Lebron is no "normal" player. He is an NBA MOGUL. He controls the Narrative and has immense power within the League and the Media. He has Controlled the narrative and being the media's darling they have been complicit. It's why Durant called out Lebron in saying "who would want to deal with that TOXIC situation". Remember how angry Lebron got when players were making Covid lockdown decisions without him first speaking and controlling the Narrative. He is A strange creature to be sure. He learned this FROM the MEDIA. He spent his formative years in the media.
Is Lebron James Great? Yes, of course. If Kevin Durant had the same career would he be lauded in the way James is? Probably not. Durant probably wouldnt have figured out how to control the narrative or the NBA in the way that Lebron has. Lebron is A mogul.

[tpols]

The Spurs were literally the favorites in that series, so 3ball straight up lying in this thread, per usual :lol

No you're the one misconstruing the truth.

Miami was 21/20 in the odds before the series. Which are basically dead draw odds.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014

And they went on to lose by record amount.

[1987_Lakers]

No you're the one misconstruing the truth.

Miami was 21/20 in the odds before the series. Which are basically dead draw odds.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014

And they went on to lose by record amount.

Headline to the article you posted...

"Oddsmaker sets Spurs as slight favorites over Heat in 2014 NBA Finals"

By definition they were the favorites.

[SouBeachTalents]

Headline to the article you posted...

"Oddsmaker sets Spurs as slight favorites over Heat in 2014 NBA Finals"

By definition they were the favorites.
:oldlol:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

I get in 2021 facts don't matter to a lot of people, but the literal facts are the Spurs were the favorites in that series.

[tpols]

Headline to the article you posted...

"Oddsmaker sets Spurs as slight favorites over Heat in 2014 NBA Finals"

By definition they were the favorites.

Yes slight. By an inch... 21/20 odds.

And they lost the Finals by the most points ever.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/highest-point-difference-in-a-finals-series

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The Spurs were literally the favorites in that series, so 3ball straight up lying in this thread, per usual :lol

The favorites against back to back champions? That's not possible by any metric

[tpols]

:oldlol:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

I get in 2021 facts don't matter to a lot of people, but the literal facts are the Spurs were the favorites in that series.

Yes they were slight favorites. You just proved the point. But the Heat lost by the worst margin ever. So that's a massive underachievement.

[3ba11]

The Spurs were literally the favorites in that series, so 3ball straight up lying in this thread, per usual :lol


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-23-2021/h0JW0A.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-23-2021/FZYHgX.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-23-2021/D4UODg.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-23-2021/_Fzgyg.gif

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html

[tpols]

Its hilarious southbeach thinks odds in the 100s declare some big favorite. Its a fact they were evenly matched in the odds. It was only in hindsight after they got beat worse than any team in Finals history that people started the sentiment that an ancient Duncan, manu, Parker and baby Kawhi were some unstoppable juggernaut.

The Spurs literally lost in the first round the next year. And were a couple shots away from losing in the first round in 2014.

[1987_Lakers]

The favorites against back to back champions? That's not possible by any metric

Why were the Bulls Vegas favorites against the Pistons in '91? Pistons were back to back champs. I know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but teams change every year.

[SouBeachTalents]

Post whatever arbitrary bullshit you want, it won't change the fact, unfortunately for you, that the Spurs were indeed the favorites

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-finals-historical-series-odds-list

You didn't even know who had HCA, so the fck should anyone take what you have to say on these Finals seriously :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Its hilarious southbeach thinks odds in the 100s declare some big favorite. Its a fact they were evenly matched in the odds. It was only in hindsight after they got beat worse than any team in Finals history that people started the sentiment that an ancient Duncan, manu, Parker and baby Kawhi were some unstoppable juggernaut.

The Spurs literally lost in the first round the next year.
When the fck did I ever declare that? I'm disputing 3ball's literal lie that the Heat were favored in 2014. FOH with your strawman arguments :lol

[tpols]

When the fck did I ever declare that? I'm disputing 3ball's literal lie that the Heat were favored in 2014. FOH with your strawman arguments :lol

All he showed was that the sentiment before and after the Finals was drastically different.

The title literally says it all. There's massive cognitive dissonance and hindsight bias regarding that series.

[3ba11]

When the fck did I ever declare that? I'm disputing 3ball's literal lie that the Heat were favored in 2014. FOH with your strawman arguments :lol

They were favored by the media, as the graphics above show.

Ultimately, the Heat lost by 13 ppg because Lebron averaged 13 less than MJ in the 93' Finals - it's no surprise that the 28 guy lost, and the 41 guy won

[1987_Lakers]

All he showed was that the sentiment before and after the Finals was drastically different.

The title literally says it all. There's massive cognitive dissonance and hindsight bias regarding that series.

He also lied and said this in another thread.


How many losses with homecourt:

11' Mavs
09' Magic
10' Celtics
14' Spurs

LOL

[3ba11]

He also lied and said this in another thread.



LOL


It's called a troll designed specifically to get the panties of women like you and SouBeach in a bunch

Mission accomplished

It also shows that Lebron has 4 losses with even odds or better (2014 and 09-11').. one of them by record amount..

ultimately, the good teams are rested against his ball-dominance and therefore get hot eventually... See the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors and Magic, aka a massive trend that supports what I'm saying

[SouBeachTalents]

They were favored by the media, as the graphics above show.

Ultimately, the Heat lost by 13 ppg because Lebron averaged 13 less than MJ in the 93' Finals - it's no surprise that the 28 guy lost, and the 41 guy won
Lol, you're such a fakkit. Favor what the media says when it convivences you for one series (2014), then favor preseason odds for another (2016), then pre series odds (2010).

[tpols]

He also lied and said this in another thread.



LOL

I mean... that's semantics. The fact of the matter is the odds were pretty much dead even and the Heat lost by record amount. And the before and after perception is extremely skewed. That's the main point.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's called a troll designed specifically to get the panties of women like you and SouBeach in a bunch

Mission accomplished

It also shows that Lebron has 4 losses with even odds or better (2014 and 09-11').. one of them by record amount
Nah, it's called you legitimately didn't know who had HCA and now you're trying to save face by pretending you were "trolling" :lol

[3ba11]

Nah, it's called you legitimately didn't know who had HCA and now you're trying to save face by pretending you were "trolling" :lol


No... It was a troll and you went for it because you're a woman.. A transgender that doesn't realize it yet - so thank 3ball for informing you about basketball and helping you come out of your shell.. surely you're the cutest chick on here.

So accept the historical record - the good teams are rested against Lebron's ball-dominance and therefore get hot eventually... See the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors and Magic, aka a massive trend that supports what I'm saying - everyone gets hot against Bron-ball

[1987_Lakers]

It's called a troll designed specifically to get the panties of women like you and SouBeach in a bunch

Mission accomplished

It also shows that Lebron has 4 losses with even odds or better (2014 and 09-11').. one of them by record amount..

ultimately, the good teams are rested against his ball-dominance and therefore get hot eventually... See the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors and Magic, aka a massive trend that supports what I'm saying

Yea right, you already admitted you don't watch games.

[SouBeachTalents]

No... It was a troll and you went for it because you're a woman.. A transgender that doesn't realize it yet - so thank 3ball for informing you about basketball and helping you come out of your shell.. surely you're the cutest chick on here.

So accept the historical record - the good teams are rested against Lebron's ball-dominance and therefore get hot eventually... See the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors and Magic, aka a massive trend that supports what I'm saying
Deflect as much as you like, nothing will change the fact you were wrong on who had HCA and who was the favorite in this series you're trying to lecture us on :lol

[3ba11]

Deflect as much as you like, nothing will change the fact you were wrong on who had HCA and who was the favorite in this series you're trying to lecture us on :lol


It was an obvious troll and you officially look like a fool

So snatch those panties out of your crack

[3ba11]

Yea right, you already admitted you don't watch games.


That's why I'm so full of myself - I understand the game at a high level so I can call stuff out that no one sees despite barely getting a glimpse of the action

After all, who could figure out why good teams always get hot against Bron-ball? 3ball did, that's who...

And it takes an understanding of the game - you have to understand that ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. that's why ball-dominance is inferior strategy to ball movement, which wears down defenses more and wins the battle of attrition. The best defense is a good offense - a tenet of all competition.

[SouBeachTalents]

It was an obvious troll and you officially look like a fool

So snatch those panties out of your crack
Yikes, stuck resorting to ad hominems because your basketball arguments have been ripped to shreds

https://64.media.tumblr.com/d0ff281df10878fd7a8ee68d968795f9/7bdcb03f417850a4-f0/s400x600/d3f216625d2d224dec62ab605071f83fadf9e1b0.gifv

[3ba11]

Yikes, stuck resorting to ad hominems because your basketball arguments have been ripped to shreds





Literally nothing I said itt was refuted

The things I say can't be refuted because it's either historical record (record loss despite even odds) or basketball 101 (teams get hot against ball-domination)

I feel sorry for people that spend so much time watching a game they understand so little.. otoh, I don't watch because I've solved the game.. literally 5 seconds of highlights and I know exactly what's going on between 2 teams or how good someone is

[1987_Lakers]

That's why I'm so full of myself - I understand the game at a high level so I can call stuff out that no one sees despite barely getting a glimpse of the action


Oubre and Klay disagree.

[3ba11]

Oubre and Klay disagree.


you guys can't really talk basketball with me because you have like kindergartener knowledge so I have to throw you a bone sometimes.. basically let you catch up a bit so it's interesting.. I mean, that was fun wasn't it?

[ELITEpower23]

Nah, it's called you legitimately didn't know who had HCA and now you're trying to save face by pretending you were "trolling" :lol

I don't think 3ball even thoughts WHAT Home Court Advantage even is...To be fair :oldlol: He's just...really slow.

[3ba11]

I don't think 3ball even thoughts WHAT Home Court Advantage even is...To be fair :oldlol: He's just...really slow.


It's a black mark that Lebron's 2-time defending champs weren't favored over a bunch of old guys far past their prime

It proves that Lebron's style of play and skillset yields teams that underachieve their talent

"Not 6, not 7" becomes 2/4 including goat choke and record loss

[Hey Yo]

Wade had an offensive rating of 89 and defensive of 120.

:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Wade had an offensive rating of 89 and defensive of 120.

:oldlol:


Lebron had a 3rd star in Bosh, but Bosh couldn't step up because Lebron had reduced him to spot-up shooter.. that's why the Heat only went 2/4 instead of "not 6, not 7"

So Lebron had far more help than Jordan because he had a 3rd star, while 14' Wade had higher playoff PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring than 93' Pippen - so MJ had a lot less help on his 3-peat run than 14' Lebron

[Hey Yo]

Lebron had a 3rd star in Bosh, but Bosh couldn't step up because Lebron had reduced him to spot-up shooter.. that's why the Heat only went 2/4 instead of "not 6, not 7"

So Lebron had far more help than Jordan because he had a 3rd star, while 14' Wade had higher playoff PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring than 93' Pippen - so MJ had a lot less help on his 3-peat run than 14' Lebron

So now you want to use entire playoffs instead of just finals??

I see your white flag waving, chico.

[3ba11]

So now you want to use entire playoffs instead of just finals??

I see your white flag waving, chico.


Lebron had a Big 3 > Pippen's trash

Pippen played worse in the 96' or 98' Finals, yet Jordan won, while Lebron lost with better-producing sidekicks in the 09' ECF or 11', 14' and 17' Finals... while also having 3rd stars that Jordan never had

So it's not even close

[Hey Yo]

What's that have to do with Wade's 89 and 120 in the Finals?

You consider that to be good?

[3ba11]

What's that have to do with Wade's 89 and 120 in the Finals?

You consider that to be good?


Lebron should still win with it like Jordan did many times

But Lebron can't win without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

He needs elite 1st options to play sidekick because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient (15') at the higher jumpshooting volume

[Hey Yo]

Which Finals did the Bulls win with Pippen having a 120 defensive rating??

[3ba11]

Which Finals did the Bulls win with Pippen having a 120 defensive rating??


Jordan won 6 titles with no rim protection and his sidekick shooting 34% field goal percentage (96') or 46% true shooting (93')

And drtg is pretty misleading because the Heat literally gave up halfway through the series and weren't playing anymore

That's literally what happened

And why did they give up? The same reason any team gives up - they knew they couldn't KEEP up.

Their offense was massively underachieving it's norm, and it was inferior strategy with no chance to begin with - Lebron's ball-dominance doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams more than the ball movement he faces on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively... The best defense is a good offense, and Lebron-ball loses the attrition battle on the championship level

[Hey Yo]

Would've been easier to just say "none"

:lol