MJ was the Bulls' only elite playmaker - if elite APG was needed, only MJ could do it

[3ba11]

* Only MJ could have series with 10 and 11 apg or average more than 7 in a season or series

* Only MJ could average 30/9/11 at point guard and have the Associated Press declare him a better PG than Magic and Isiah after just 16 games at the position in 1989

* Only MJ had a breakdown handle on the Bulls that could break down defenders off-the-dribble and "toss dimes", while Pippen had a basic handle and could only "facilitate" (swing the ball from one side to the other).


CONCLUSION: the media lies about Jordan's career to make Lebron look comparable

[outofstomach]

in before no one responds to OP’s arguments, and throws long debunked NPC speak like “1-9” or “jordan weak competition”

[ELITEpower23]

CONCLUSION:

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

[Pip' N Rodman]

CONCLUSION:

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

DAMN! Shut it down :eek:

[3ba11]

CONCLUSION:

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png


^^^ those stats show:

Jordan.... 5.3 apg... 28.0 assist percentage... 32.6 ppg
Pippen.... 5.4 apg... 21.0 assist percentage... 19.0 ppg


So Jordan carried a mid-tier playmaker in Pippen

[aceman]

* Only MJ could have series with 10 and 11 apg or average more than 7 in a season or series

* Only MJ could average 30/9/11 at point guard and have the Associated Press declare him a better PG than Magic and Isiah after just 16 games at the position in 1989

* Only MJ had a breakdown handle on the Bulls that could break down defenders off-the-dribble and "toss dimes", while Pippen had a basic handle and could only "facilitate" (swing the ball from one side to the other).


CONCLUSION: the media lies about Jordan's career to make Lebron look comparable

Had the best combined 2nd & 3rd options in NBA at the time

[TAZORAC]

* Only MJ could have series with 10 and 11 apg or average more than 7 in a season or series

* Only MJ could average 30/9/11 at point guard and have the Associated Press declare him a better PG than Magic and Isiah after just 16 games at the position in 1989

* Only MJ had a breakdown handle on the Bulls that could break down defenders off-the-dribble and "toss dimes", while Pippen had a basic handle and could only "facilitate" (swing the ball from one side to the other).


CONCLUSION: the media lies about Jordan's career to make Lebron look comparable

Most teams in 1989 only had 1 elite player. The Pistons won a championship without an elite playermaker...Thomas was ok.

[TheGoatest]

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-04-11-sp-1572-story.html


https://images4.imagebam.com/44/9d/ad/ME4JDZO_o.png

[dankok8]

Fun Fact: Jordan in 1991 had the highest APG average in a finals series outside of Magic Johnson.

[3ba11]

Most teams in 1989 only had 1 elite player. The Pistons won a championship without an elite playermaker...Thomas was ok.


Dumars averaged 27 and 6 apg in the 89' Finals (fmvp) and was a better playmaker than Pippen..

Every winning sidekick in history (Kobe, Curry, Dumars, Iggy, etc) achieved FMVP or elite 1st option stats (25+) in a series or season except Pippen, Klay, Rip Hamilton, Jason Terry, Horry, and Pau (true 2bd options)

[3ba11]

Had the best combined 2nd & 3rd options in NBA at the time


The Bulls only had 2 all-stars but beat Finals teams with 3 all-stars (93' Suns and 96' Sonics).

Furthermore, Worthy was All-NBA in 91' (Pippen wasn't even an all-star), while Vlade & Perkins averaged 18/9 in the Finals (destroyed Horace)..

Finally, the 91' Lakers and 92' Blazers had better-ranked defenses and more scoring options, while the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had nearly the same ranked defense and FAR more scoring options.. The Jazz we're the only opponent that didn't have more talent than the Bulls, but they had a long-term organic brand that destroyed Popovich/Duncan and Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers

[hateraid]

^^^ those stats show:

Jordan.... 5.3 apg... 28.0 assist percentage... 32.6 ppg
Pippen.... 5.4 apg... 21.0 assist percentage... 19.0 ppg


So Jordan carried a mid-tier playmaker in Pippen

Wait...u thought Jordan was the only playmaker? Lolol

[3ba11]

Wait...u thought Jordan was the only playmaker? Lolol


Kyrie, Wade, Rondo and Mo are all better playmakers than Pippen, who could only average 5 apg (mid-tier playmaker).

Only Jordan could get over 7 apg on the Bulls.. He was the only playmaker because only Jordan had a breakdown handle - Pippen was just a facilitator that swung the ball side to side

Btw, most teams had multiple playmakers and other teams also had 3rd scoring options or 3rd all-stars, which the Bulls never had

[Round Mound]

:facepalm

[3ba11]

:facepalm


It's 100% fact, intuitive and obvious

But carry on the fraud and pretend the OP (historical record) "makes no sense"

[Hey Yo]

The Bulls only had 2 all-stars but beat Finals teams with 3 all-stars (93' Suns and 96' Sonics).

Furthermore, Worthy was All-NBA in 91' (Pippen wasn't even an all-star), while Vlade & Perkins averaged 18/9 in the Finals (destroyed Horace)..

Finally, the 91' Lakers and 92' Blazers had better-ranked defenses and more scoring options, while the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had nearly the same ranked defense and FAR more scoring options.. The Jazz we're the only opponent that didn't have more talent than the Bulls, but they had a long-term organic brand that destroyed Popovich/Duncan and Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers

Only 2 All-stars??

In 93' and 96', MJ and Pippen was All-NBA and All-Defensive. Grant in 93' and Rodman (who got multiple FMVP votes) in 96' made the All-Defensive. Rodman also was the rebounding champion.

[3ba11]

Only 2 All-stars??

In 93' and 96', MJ and Pippen was All-NBA and All-Defensive. Grant in 93' and Rodman (who got multiple FMVP votes) in 96' made the All-Defensive. Rodman also was the rebounding champion.


The Bulls' opponents had more good players - more all-stars, more scorers - they didn't need to pretend a rebounder was a star

Rodman wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs and averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs. He was 36 years old

So the Bulls played 4 in 5 with Rodman, while Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs... that's the least help any team ever had, let alone a 3-peat champ, so MJ carried bums

[Hey Yo]

So why does the NBA even have All-NBA / Defensive teams if making the All-star team is considered a more valuable accomplishment?

[3ba11]

So why does the NBA even have All-NBA / Defensive teams if making the All-star team is more valuable?


Payton/Kemp/Schrempf were All-NBA.. So were Stockton/Malone or Magic/Worthy.. Worthy was All-NBA in 91' while Pippen wasn't an all-star

So what are you even talking about

Ultimately, All-NBA is media awards that mean nothing compared to actual performance, while coaches vote for most of the all-stars (better than media)

You guys can't say "Pippen dominated X series" - you can only point to meaningless media participation awards

[Hey Yo]

Schrempf wasn't All-NBA in 96'.... more lies from you.

If All-NBA isnt based on performance, then how did MJ make the team so many times?

[3ba11]

Schrempf wasn't All-NBA in 96'.... more lies from you.

If All-NBA isnt based on performance, then how did MJ make the team so many times?

Payton/Kemp/Schrempf were All-NBA in 95' and all-stars in 96'... So the Bulls beat Finals opponents with more all-stars in 96' and 93'.... Stockton/Malone or Magic/Worthy were All-NBA too .. Worthy was All-NBA in 91' while Pippen wasn't an all-star

So what are you even talking about

Ultimately, All-NBA is media awards that are based on ring count or other biases... They mean nothing compared to actual performance, while coaches vote for most of the all-stars (better than media)

You guys can't say "Pippen dominated X series" - you can only point to meaningless media participation awards

[Hey Yo]

LOL @ MJ's awards media driven while he actually sucked in reality.

Surprised to see you look at it that way.

[3ba11]

LOL @ MJ's awards media driven while he actually sucked in reality.

Surprised to see you look at it that way.


You guys could've shut down my Pippen babbling by simply saying "you're wrong because Pippen dominated in series X and Y... Pippen averaged 25 in this series and won FMVP in this series"

But you can't because Pippen is one of the rare winning sidekicks that never won FMVP or achieved elite 1st option stats in any season or series (true 2nd option).. Since 1980 (3-pointer basketball), the only "true 2nd options" that won are Pippen, Pau, Rip Hamilton, Horry and Jason Terry... Even Klay averaged 25+ in several series

[j3lademaster]

LOL @ MJ's awards media driven while he actually sucked in reality.

Surprised to see you look at it that way.Holy shit this is dumb. No matter how big of a Jordan hater you are, whoever you have over him is going to be by a very small gap.

[Hey Yo]

Holy shit this is dumb. No matter how big of a Jordan hater you are, whoever you have over him is going to be by a very small gap.

3ball said making All-NBA teams isnt based on performance.... it's media driven awards. So I guess that means MJ actually sucked and were earned by his popularity.

He's a stupidfvck.

[Vino24]

Pippen out-assisting MJ is not a good look for this thread. Immediately on the first post op is making and shifting goal posts. Lolol

[aceman]

Kyrie, Wade, Rondo and Mo are all better playmakers than Pippen, who could only average 5 apg (mid-tier playmaker).

Only Jordan could get over 7 apg on the Bulls.. He was the only playmaker because only Jordan had a breakdown handle - Pippen was just a facilitator that swung the ball side to side

Btw, most teams had multiple playmakers and other teams also had 3rd scoring options or 3rd all-stars, which the Bulls never had

First three peat had combo of Pippen & Jordan which was more than enough. In 1996 to 1998 duo of Pippen & Kukoc are equal to or better than any combined 2nd & 3rd leading scorers on the league at the time. As pure player makers they are the best

[ImKobe]

CONCLUSION:

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

Conclusion: MJ was responsible for ~1,500 more pts than Pippen while playing ATG defense as well. GOAT doing GOAT things.

[TheGoatest]

Fun Fact: Jordan in 1991 had the highest APG average in a finals series outside of Magic Johnson.

Fun fact: Jordan in 1998 had a lower APG average in a finals series than center-playing Bill Russell had in any of his 12 finals appearances, outside of one where he had the exact same apg as Jordan in 1998.

[3ba11]

the combo of Pippen & Jordan which was more than enough.





It was only enough because of Jordan's goat stats, not Pippen's ordinary stats (and horrible stats during the 2nd three-peat).

The Bulls needed scoring champ production from the #1 option, which only Jordan could provide.. They needed goat scoring burden + team-leading assists and assist percentage from Jordan, plus goat clutch and top 5 DPOY every year

Only MJ could provide that





In 1996 to 1998 duo of Pippen & Kukoc are equal to or better than any combined 2nd & 3rd leading scorers on the league at the time. As pure player makers they are the best


Payton and Kemp destroy Pippen in 1996 and those Finals - it's a laughing stock

Schrempf and Hornacek destroy Kukoc.. You're just uninformed about Hornacek and his career.. Guys like Derrick McKey and tons of other guys destroy Kukoc - heck, Horry averaged 18/10 on 55% in the 95' Finals as 3rd option (prime Pippen stats)..

btw, with 3rd option Horry reaching the low bar of Pippen-caliber, the 95' Rockets would've ended the 4-peat Bulls (if MJ never retired).. otoh, the 94' Rockets were a joke - Ewing's 18 on 35% took them 7 games.

[aceman]

It was only enough because of Jordan's goat stats, not Pippen's ordinary stats (and horrible stats during the 2nd three-peat).

The Bulls needed scoring champ production from the #1 option, which only Jordan could provide.. They needed goat scoring burden + team-leading assists and assist percentage from Jordan, plus goat clutch and top 5 DPOY every year

Only MJ could provide that






Payton and Kemp destroy Pippen in 1996 and those Finals - it's a laughing stock

Schrempf and Hornacek destroy Kukoc.. You're just uninformed about Hornacek and his career.. Guys like Derrick McKey and tons of other guys destroy Kukoc - heck, Horry averaged 18/10 on 55% in the 95' Finals as 3rd option (prime Pippen stats)..

btw, with 3rd option Horry reaching the low bar of Pippen-caliber, the 95' Rockets would've ended the 4-peat Bulls (if MJ never retired).. otoh, the 94' Rockets were a joke - Ewing's 18 on 35% took them 7 games.


Payton & Detlef were a good pair. I favour Pippen & Kukoc because both could be chief player. To make out either pair being miles better than the other is bad faith.

Pippen was always among the highest scoring 2nd options during early to mid 90's. Just facts