Imagine if Jordan had to NOT PLAY for Pippen to play well

[3ba11]

So Lebron doesn't elevate teammates and is nowhere near MJ

Specifically, his lack of elite jumpshooting skill and off-ball production ability creates bad teammate fits and prevents the best strategy (ball movement), which results in lower team ceilings.

This is the historical record.

[RRR3]

Kobe has the most bricks of all time.

[3ba11]

Kobe has the most bricks of all time.


Don't you think the Lakers would be a 6/6 team if Westbrook was allowed to do what he did last night, while Lebron and AD both get 20-30 ppg as off-ball assassin scorers (highly-assisted like traditional forwards)?

Instead, they're playing the "4/10 with bailouts" brand, where guys are reduced from star to role player as the media makes excuses for it (without actually knowing or understanding the actual problem)

[TheGoatest]

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[3ba11]

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You're weaponizing a coincidence that the only years Jordan didn't have Pippen are his first couple years, when EVERYONE is lottery, like Lebron, Giannis, Curry and KD (all the goats)

So the argument that "MJ didn't win without Pippen" is incredibly weak and reveals the character of the person making it (low or uninformed)

[1987_Lakers]

You're weaponizing a coincidence that the only years Jordan didn't have Pippen are his first couple years, when EVERYONE is lottery, like Lebron, Giannis, Curry and KD (all the goats)

So the argument that "MJ didn't win without Pippen" is incredibly weak and reveals the character of the person making it (low or uninformed)


Coming for a guy who flat out lied about Miami having HCA in 2014 vs the Spurs just to prove a point. You are worse than CNN.

[TheGoatest]

You're weaponizing a coincidence that the only years Jordan didn't have Pippen are his first couple years, when EVERYONE is lottery, like Lebron, Giannis, Curry and KD (all the goats)

So the argument that "MJ didn't win without Pippen" is incredibly weak and reveals the character of the person making it (low or uninformed)

Yeah, it's totally a coincidence that his last season without Pippen where...

Jordan was fully healthy and played 82 games
Jordan averaged 37.1 points per game
Jordan played with a teammate who averaged 14.5 ppg, 13.1 rpg & 3.6 apg, who was also fully healthy and played 82 games

...Jordan's Bulls finished with a lower seeding that an allstar-less team whose best player by far was a rookie Chuck Person

It's totally a coincidence that Jordan didn't win his first playoff series until Pippen entered the league
It's totally a coincidence that Jordan didn't start winning championships until Pippen entered his prime
It's totally a coincidence that Pippen came closer to winning a championship without Jordan on two separate occasions (1993-94 and 1999-00) than Jordan did without Pippen on two separate occasions (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)

[ShawkFactory]

If he were the third option it would make more sense. Second options can generally still get theirs when the alpha is in.

[3ba11]

Yeah, it's totally a coincidence that his last season without Pippen where...

Jordan was fully healthy and played 82 games
Jordan averaged 37.1 points per game
Jordan played with a teammate who averaged 14.5 ppg, 13.1 rpg & 3.6 apg, who was also fully healthy and played 82 games

...Jordan's Bulls finished with a lower seeding that an allstar-less team whose best player by far was a rookie Chuck Person

It's totally a coincidence that Jordan didn't win his first playoff series until Pippen entered the league
It's totally a coincidence that Jordan didn't start winning championships until Pippen entered his prime
It's totally a coincidence that Pippen came closer to winning a championship without Jordan on two separate occasions (1993-94 and 1999-00) than Jordan did without Pippen on two separate occasions (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)


^^^ that's a rebounder - Oakley was a rebounder and therefore not a viable 2nd option scorer ..

And as usual, Jordan squeezed the absolute maximum out of him.

So Jordan carried a rebounder to 40 wins, while Lebron needed the East all-star center in 2004 and 2005 (18/9 and 2.5 blk).. Jordan was also in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron was in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverson, Kidd, Dwight)




Yeah, it's totally a coincidence that his last season without Pippen where...





In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron almost always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds in the playoffs (good casts relative to conference). So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did - Lebron infact got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds

[TheGoatest]

^^^ that's a rebounder - Oakley was a rebounder and therefore not a viable 2nd option scorer ..

And as usual, Jordan squeezed the absolute maximum out of him.

So Jordan carried a rebounder to 40 wins, while Lebron needed the East all-star center in 2004 and 2005 (18/9 and 2.5 blk).. Jordan was also in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron was in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverson, Kidd, Dwight)






In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron almost always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds in the playoffs (good casts relative to conference). So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did - Lebron infact got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds

Jordan squeezes the maximum out of players, huh? "As usual", huh?
Is that why 7 different Bulls players, from supertars like Pippen to random bench warmers all averaged the highest PPGs of their career in 1993-94, the exact season Jordan went away from the Bulls?
Is that why both Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong were all-stars in 1993-94, the exact season they stopped playing with Jordan.

And your lame Jamaal Magloire-Dale Davis technicality all-star Ilgauskas wasn't an all-star when LeBron single-handedly carried the worst finals-making supporting cast in the history of the league to the finals in 2007.

[3ba11]

Jordan squeezes the maximum out of players, huh? "As usual", huh?
Is that why 7 different Bulls players, from supertars like Pippen to random bench warmers all averaged the highest PPGs of their career in 1993-94, the exact season Jordan went away from the Bulls?
Is that why both Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong were all-stars in 1993-94, the exact season they stopped playing with Jordan.

And your lame Jamaal Magloire-Dale Davis technicality all-star Ilgauskas wasn't an all-star when LeBron single-handedly carried the worst finals-making supporting cast in the history of the league to the finals in 2007.


When you say these guys averaged their highest without Jordan, you're talking about 1-2 more ppg, aka everyone played to capacity alongside Jordan, or close to it

And that's the point - everyone played to capacity alongside Jordan because his on-ball/off-ball game fit with EVERYONE.. Otoh, Lebron craters certain player types because he's just a ball-dominator.

And Iverson, Kidd or Dwight had the same non-star casts as 07' Lebron... Iverson carried McKie and Kidd carried 1x all-star bust Kenyon... Dwight carried Rashard... All sub-par casts

Infact, the 00's East is the only conference in history that was won by multiple 1-star teams, and that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking deck)

[Round Mound]

Jordan himself said he wouldn't come back to the Bulls if Pippen wasn't playing for the team. That says alot.

[RRR3]

How’d WB play last night, Snivelly? Good?

[Kblaze8855]

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[8Ball]

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:roll:

[Hey Yo]

Jordan himself said he wouldn't come back to the Bulls if Pippen wasn't playing for the team. That says alot.

"No Pip, I quit"

[imdaman99]

Don't you talk about how bad Pippen was in all those playoff series playing with MJ? So all of a sudden Scottie played well alongside MJ??? Make up your mind, your agenda is weak af. And it's just repeating the same old gibberish. This is the 30 seconds of attention you so badly crave.

[3ba11]

Don't you talk about how bad Pippen was in all those playoff series playing with MJ? So all of a sudden Scottie played well alongside MJ??? Make up your mind, your agenda is weak af. And it's just repeating the same old gibberish. This is the 30 seconds of attention you so badly crave.


Pippen's peak capability (22/5) is a low bar that bums like Larry Hughes reached - but regardless of how shitty Pippen's peak capacity was, Pippen still reached this capacity alongside Jordan (played to capacity), while Lebron's ball-dominance reduces guys below their peak capacity (he turns them into spot-up shooters)