The GOAT standard

[3ba11]

.
* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

* Win the most titles as the best player (3-pointer history)

* never lose as the favorite or with homecourt, or with even odds or better

* have the highest team ceilings ever, aka best Finals record

* have the highest production rate, aka stats (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

* be the only athlete-shooter ever - the only goat athlete that was also a goat shooter of 2-pointers or 3-pointers

* Maximize teammates by having a record of growing young players and having teammates play to capacity alongside him (career high), or close to it

* Win the highest quality rings, aka no super-teams (no 3rd stars) and no 1b's (no equal-scoring partners)

[Kobe_Bryant]

"but... lebwon play more point total he better and Karl Malone 2nd goat duuur"

:lol

[NBAGOAT]

You can directly impact the games in many ways. Kyle Lowry is better than demar derozan still easily even though demar is better at putting the ball in the basket.

Arbitrary to discount Russell

Arbitrary to discount everyone lol. I would argue winning as the underdog can make up for losing as a favorite and many other greats have done it more than Jordan I would say.

Fair enough though some others are close. Sneaky way to discount wilt because he doesn’t have BPM recorded but his PER/WS are up there

Wrong Jordan isn’t in the top 100 shooters from 3 lol. You can argue it all you want but no one including Kenneth will agree with you there.

Others have elevated more young players. You’re pretty much talking about 2 guyshere pippen and grant lol, both who also had career years in 94. Meanwhile I can name a handful of guys(most of them stars) who bird and magic obviously elevated.

No other team in the 90s had a super team either, only Orlando had a 1a/1b situation. Yes bird and magic need superteams when they had to beat each other and a Philly or Detroit with 3-4 stars. Lebron/AD by themselves likely wouldn’t have been enough this year if Kyrie wasn’t a dumbass

[000]

All of "3-pointer history" is fraud

[8Ball]

* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

1. LeBron James 7631
2. Michael Jordan 5987

Next thread. Didn't read the rest.

[GrayGoat]

Op so explain how you have Kobe as the goat? (Please don’t mention MJ or LeBron)

[Kobe_Bryant]

* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

1. LeBron James 7631
2. Michael Jordan 5987

Next thread. Didn't read the rest.

na this is just a health, steroid and weak conference record

[Axe]

*blowing a 3-1 lead in the postseason

*being 1-9 without your reliable sidekick

*let your teammates win 55 games in the rs without you

*score 60+ points in a playoff series you get swept

*poop your pants in the finals and still win the game

[SaintzFury13]

.
* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

* Win the most titles as the best player (3-pointer history)

* never lose as the favorite or with homecourt, or with even odds or better

* have the highest team ceilings ever, aka best Finals record

* have the highest production rate, aka stats (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

* be the only athlete-shooter ever - the only goat athlete that was also a goat shooter of 2-pointers or 3-pointers

* Maximize teammates by having a record of growing young players and having teammates play to capacity alongside him (career high), or close to it

* Win the highest quality rings, aka no super-teams (no 3rd stars) and no 1b's (no equal-scoring partners)

But he wasn't a great three point shooter.

[Manny98]

"but... lebwon play more point total he better and Karl Malone 2nd goat duuur"

:lol

* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

1. LeBron James 7631
2. Michael Jordan 5987

Next thread. Didn't read the rest.

Like clockwork :oldlol:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's standard is pretty goat'ish as well:

* go 40-1 at home in a single season

* score 732 points on 62% TS during title run

* never get swept in a playoff series

* lead series in minutes or GmSC and eliminate every great player in your era (Lebron, Giannis, Durant, Curry)

* Stop two different potential 3peats during the finals and win finals MVP

* win multiple defensive player of the year awards and multiple finals mvps

* win a championship with a no name coach nick nurse

* never be on a team that is worse then top 3 SRS in which you're the best player on

and he's only 30 year old and about to return this spring and win another finals MVP

[RRR3]

.
* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

* Win the most titles as the best player (3-pointer history)

* never lose as the favorite or with homecourt, or with even odds or better

* have the highest team ceilings ever, aka best Finals record

* have the highest production rate, aka stats (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

* be the only athlete-shooter ever - the only goat athlete that was also a goat shooter of 2-pointers or 3-pointers

* Maximize teammates by having a record of growing young players and having teammates play to capacity alongside him (career high), or close to it

* Win the highest quality rings, aka no super-teams (no 3rd stars) and no 1b's (no equal-scoring partners)
You do realize this means your hero Kobe can’t be GOAT right? Lmao

[ShawkFactory]

But he wasn't a great three point shooter.

The entire thread was made specifically for that sentence.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM

[8Ball]

na this is just a health, steroid and weak conference record

3 LeBRON JAMES 35,445
4 Kobe Bryant 33,643

Played less number of years than Kobe.

I win again.

[AirBonner]

Op so explain how you have Kobe as the goat? (Please don’t mention MJ or LeBron)

Op?

[3ba11]

Forgot to add 1 more:

* NEVER WET THE BED (this includes choking or shooting so poorly that it can be used as the reason for the loss)

[3ba11]

All of "3-pointer history" is fraud


You're right - the 3-pointer started in the ABA, so I meant to say NBA 3-pointer history (since 1980)

[HoopsNY]

1-9

[3ba11]

* be the best-ever at putting the ball in the basket, aka adding to the scoreboard, aka the most direct impact on the game

1. LeBron James 7631
2. Michael Jordan 5987

Next thread. Didn't read the rest.




PPG Playoffs


1) Jordan...... 33.5


2) Iverson..... 29.7
3) West......... 29.1
4) Lebron...... 28.9
5) Durant...... 28.8
6) Barry......... 27.3
7) Elgin......... 27.0
8) Gervin...... 26.5
9 Curry......... 26.0
10) Hakem... 25.9



CLUTCH - Playoff shots in last 5 minutes, within 5 points, since 2001



134-323 for Lebron.. 41.4%
108 games.. 3.0 attempts per game

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&match=play&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=5&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&player_id=jamesle01&order_by=date_game



Jordan 1997 Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals): 20-39.. 51.3% (11 games)
Jordan 1998 Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals): 22-50.. 44.0% (14 games)

42-89 for MJ.. 47.2%
25 games.. 3.6 attempts per game


TLDR: down the stretch of tight games (last 5 minutes within 5 points), Lebron shot 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career (04-19'), compared 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98'.. So MJ shot much better in the clutch with far more attempts (20% bigger clutch load/attempts).

[3ba11]

1-9


You're weaponizing a coincidence - the coincidence is that the only years Jordan didn't have Pippen are his first couple years, when EVERYONE loses - Lebron, Giannis, Curry and KD were all lottery in their first few years.

So the period where everyone loses is the period that you're knocking MJ for

[000]

You're right - the 3-pointer started in the ABA, so I meant to say NBA 3-pointer history (since 1980)

Threes ruined basketball

[HoopsNY]

You're weaponizing a coincidence - the coincidence is that the only years Jordan didn't have Pippen are his first couple years, when EVERYONE loses - Lebron, Giannis, Curry and KD were all lottery in their first few years.

So the period where everyone loses is the period that you're knocking MJ for

I fully agree with you, but I'm trolling you. You fell for it, as usual.