Lebron can't carry scoring load to win a Finals - can't be offensive anchor in Finals [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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3ba11

10-29-2021, 12:19 PM

His scoring ability is insufficient to win on the Finals level while carrying the scoring load because he can't beat good teams with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15') to beat good teams - he literally can't score too much or he'll lose.

Since he can't win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick and match his scoring on the Finals level - this is standard for everyone except Jordan - nearly everyone in history needed a "1b" teammate to match or exceed their playoff scoring for most of their title runs..

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" defensive coverage and he faced it for an entire career.. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show in history here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)

ShawkFactory

10-29-2021, 12:20 PM

You’ve said all of this. Like a lot

3ba11

10-29-2021, 12:23 PM

You’ve said all of this. Like a lot

It's the historical record that no one seems to be aware of

They keep saying that Lebron carries bums despite never having a carry-job against a good team or Finals team - he always had equal-scoring teammates when he won Finals and teammates never had poor scoring/efficiency in wins against top 5 SRS teams... ... And when did he have bums? (his low seeds missed playoffs so he only had high seeds - even his first playoff win required having his opponent's sidekick on his team)

Phoenix

10-29-2021, 12:28 PM

It's the historical record that no one seems to be aware of

They keep saying that Lebron carries bums despite never having a carry-job against a good team or Finals team - he always had equal-scoring teammates when he won Finals and teammates never had poor scoring/efficiency in wins against top 5 SRS teams... ... And when did he have bums? (his low seeds missed playoffs so he only had high seeds - even his first playoff win required having his opponent's sidekick on his team)

How can we not be? You have 30 thousand posts saying the same thing. Who the fukk on this site isn't aware of your 'historical' information at this point?

3ba11

10-29-2021, 12:36 PM

How can we not be? You have 30 thousand posts saying the same thing. Who the fukk on this site isn't aware of your 'historical' information at this point?

It's easy to shut me up - just show me where Lebron carried the scoring load in a Finals win or beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (carry-job vs good team).

But you can't because......... (insert the OP)

ShawkFactory

10-29-2021, 12:39 PM

3ba11

10-29-2021, 12:42 PM

No one said that he did

The goat must be capable of carry-jobs against good teams or Finals teams

Only Jordan was (in history), so he's goat.. (edit: Dirk, Hakeem and Kawhi carried the load in 1-offs and Kobe did it twice)

ShawkFactory

10-29-2021, 01:05 PM

The goat must be capable of carry-jobs against good teams or Finals teams

Only Jordan was (in history), so he's goat.. (edit: Dirk, Hakeem and Kawhi carried the load in 1-offs and Kobe did it twice)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498683-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-37

InsideHoops (the place you’ve spent almost a decade and 50000k posts saying the same thing) agrees.

Phoenix

10-29-2021, 01:18 PM

AirBonner

10-29-2021, 01:22 PM

Curry is a better 3pt and midrange shooter than MJ. On top of this he has done it in a more difficult era

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:01 PM

But who was arguing to the contrary? Who are you talking to?

People say Lebron is an all-time level scorer because of his career point total but he actually isn't an all-time level scorer because he can't win with high scoring against good teams (too ball-dominant and inefficient) and he needs the game to slow to a crawl if he wants to have a big game - the entire game flow slows down and he must completely dominate the ball - that isn't skilled and other guys with elite jumpshooting skill can pop off quickly as the ball moves, so their TEAMS can pop off...

Lebron's inability to pop his jumper off whenever he wants or quick-iso his man upon the catch with an assassin mindset makes him an entirely lower dimension scorer - he's so unskilled as a scorer that the game must slow down and his team can't pop off - the game looks like any playground game with 1 guy dominating the ball - that isn't skilled or the top level of scoring - not even close ... Ultimately, 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts is fitting for a guy with weak scoring skill that slows the whole game down and goes playground style to have a big game

Phoenix

10-29-2021, 05:09 PM

People say Lebron is an all-time level scorer because of his career point total but he actually isn't an all-time level scorer because he can't win with high scoring against good teams (too ball-dominant and inefficient) and he needs the game to slow to a crawl if he wants to have a big game - the entire game flow slows down and he must completely dominate the ball - that isn't skilled and other guys with elite jumpshooting skill can pop off quickly as the ball moves, so their TEAMS can pop off...

Lebron's inability to pop his jumper off whenever he wants or quick-iso his man upon the catch with an assassin mindset makes him an entirely lower dimension scorer - he's so unskilled as a scorer that the game must slow down and his team can't pop off - the game looks like any playground game with 1 guy dominating the ball - that isn't skilled or the top level of scoring - not even close ... Ultimately, 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts is fitting for a guy with weak scoring skill that slows the whole game down and goes playground style to have a big game

Agreed. If everyone else does, will you go away?

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:12 PM

Agreed. If everyone else does, will you go away?

Let's see people start agreeing first

Does everyone agree that Lebron isn't an all-time level scorer because the game must slow to a crawl for him to have big games and turns into playground style where 1 guy dominates the ball??... This lower brand of ball-dominance gets killed by ball movement, hence 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts (basically 2/10)??

Let's see everyone sign off on this.. the all-time scoring leader is infact a bummy scorer

GO.... start conceding the observable fact

GrayGoat

10-29-2021, 05:14 PM

LeBron being responsible for 45pts a game for nearly 20 years isn’t shouldering the load

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:17 PM

LeBron being responsible for 45pts a game for nearly 20 years isn’t shouldering the load

CP3, Nash, Magic, Stockton - TONS of guys do that

Otoh, beating good teams with SCORING requires more than slowing the game to a crawl and playground style where 1 guy dominates the ball - that's what Lebron needs to score a lot and it isn't skilled or a high level of scoring ability

Ultimately, 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts is fitting for a guy with weak scoring skill that slows the whole game down and goes playground style to have a big game (ball-dominance)

GrayGoat

10-29-2021, 05:20 PM

CP3, Nash, Magic, Stockton - TONS of guys do that

Otoh, beating good teams with SCORING requires more than slowing the game to a crawl and playground style where 1 guy dominates the ball - that's what Lebron needs to score a lot and it isn't skilled or a high level of scoring ability

Ultimately, 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts is fitting for a guy with weak scoring skill that slows the whole game down and goes playground style (ball-dominance) to have a big game

Tons of guys average 27/8/8 for 20 years? Name them

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:23 PM

Tons of guys average 27/8/8 for 20 years? Name them

Tons of guys account for 45 ppg, which is what you said

And tons of guys average 27/7/7 for stretches of their career, including Clyde Drexler, Kawhi, Harden or Westbrook - it isn't the top caliber so who cares that Lebron played at the lower caliber for longer, smh

Jordan was scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98' - that's the top caliber (he also won MVP in 88' and 98', so that's MVP-caliber from 25-35, aka goat longevity)

GrayGoat

10-29-2021, 05:25 PM

Tons of guys account for 45 ppg, which is what you said

And tons of guys average 27/7/7 for stretches of their career, including Clyde Drexler, Kawhi, Harden or Westbrook - it isn't the top caliber so who cares that Lebron played at the lower caliber for longer, smh
I said for 20 years. You said that’s common. Next.

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:27 PM

I said for 20 years. You said that’s common. Next.

tons of guys average 27/7/7 for stretches of their career, including Clyde Drexler, Kawhi, Harden or Westbrook - it isn't the top caliber so who cares that Lebron played at this lower caliber for longer, smh

But the issue is that Lebron's limited scoring skill requires the game to slow down to a crawl and play playground style to score a lot (ball-dominator)

That's TRASH scoring skill.. imagine a bum that needs to completely dominate the ball to score a lot... :yaohappy:..... hence 4/10 and lottery record against ball movement teams (Mavs, Spurs Warriors)

GrayGoat

10-29-2021, 05:31 PM

LeBron won 4 chips 4mvps 4 fmvps. Stfu

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:32 PM

LeBron won 4 chips 4mvps 4 fmvps. Stfu

Never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

Because he can't win with high scoring... (Insert OP)

Phoenix

10-29-2021, 05:38 PM

Never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

Because he can't win with high scoring... (Insert OP)

Agreed. Everyone else agree?

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:39 PM

Agreed. Everyone else agree?

No one has responded to you so people apparently need more convincing and information

the issue is that Lebron's limited scoring skill requires the game to slow down to a crawl and play playground style to score a lot (ball-dominator)

That's TRASH scoring skill.. imagine a bum that needs to completely dominate the ball to score a lot... ..... hence 4/10 and lottery record against ball movement teams (Mavs, Spurs Warriors)..

So career points mean nothing - Lebron and Kareem are literally the most limited big name scorers ever

ShawkFactory

10-29-2021, 05:43 PM

SouBeachTalents

10-29-2021, 05:44 PM

I just don’t understand how it doesn’t become boring doing this year after year. Like..even if you’re paid to troll on here after 7 years I feel like I’d want a promotion or some sort of increased responsibility or a completely different higher-paying role.

I just imagine you being like Jerry from Parks and Rex perfectly content doing the same inane bullshit until you die or retire while being made fun of.

Him having a beautiful wife was funny for a sitcom but that ain’t real. The other parts are.
His scoring ability is insufficient to win on the Finals level while carrying the scoring load because he can't beat good teams with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15') to beat good teams - he literally can't score too much or he'll lose.

Since he can't win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick and match his scoring on the Finals level - this is standard for everyone except Jordan - nearly everyone in history needed a "1b" teammate to match or exceed their playoff scoring for most of their title runs..

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" defensive coverage and he faced it for an entire career.. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show in history here

3ba11

10-29-2021, 05:49 PM

000

10-30-2021, 11:31 AM

It's easy to shut me up - just show me where Lebron carried the scoring load in a Finals win or beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (carry-job vs good team).

But you can't because......... (insert the OP)
Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick...

Furthermore, he won 3 games against the 2006 Pistons, which is the same thing as Jordan winning 3 games against the 89 Cavs (except the Pistons were better)

Phoenix

10-30-2021, 11:46 AM

No one has responded to you so people apparently need more convincing and information

Because they haven't figured out that if we all just nod our heads, maybe you'll shut the fukk up and go away. Some people need a little more time, but thanks for giving the board the idea yesterday that your Curry thread failed because you expected a bunch of angry fans to come in and start jawing with you. You create arguing points and then go on some personal crusade to 'convince' people of things nobody was debating with you about. I've never met a more useless human being than you.

8Ball

10-30-2021, 01:52 PM

Tons of guys average 27/8/8 for 20 years? Name them

Nobody.

Not even Jordan could do it.

8Ball

10-30-2021, 01:53 PM

8Ball

10-30-2021, 01:53 PM

:roll:

https://i.ibb.co/Vv2QrQC/Screenshot-2021-07-20-180658.png

ShawkFactory

10-30-2021, 02:03 PM

3ba11

10-30-2021, 02:14 PM

Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick...

Furthermore, he won 3 games against the 2006 Pistons, which is the same thing as Jordan winning 3 games against the 89 Cavs (except the Pistons were better)

Love averaged 21/11 against those Raptors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Furthermore, the entire game must slow to a crawl for Lebron to score a lot, as he dominates the ball (inferior strategy/brand of ball).

Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) and can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen..

Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's and never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

000

10-30-2021, 02:16 PM

Love averaged 21/11 against those Raptors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09' ECF) or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15' Finals).. Since he can't have carry-jobs against good teams or win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick... aka he needs equal-scoring partners that can match or exceed his playoff scoring (11', 16', 20' Playoffs) and can't win with true 2nd options that average far less like Pippen..

Lebron simply lacks elite jumpshooting skill and can rarely "pop off".. he isn't that kind of player, so he needs big 3's and never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick... ergo Lebron had a carry-job against a good team

Furthermore, he won 3 games against the 2006 Pistons, which is the same thing as Jordan winning 3 games against the 89 Cavs (except the Pistons were better)

RRR3

10-30-2021, 02:22 PM

I have a beautiful wife

Dumbass

She's with me right now

I enjoy doing this because the . mainstream is wrong - literally every topic they talk about - they're wrong about.. they're just journalists....not EXPERTS.. I'm an EXPERT and you should appreciate me
She was your girlfriend the last time you brought her up. Either you recently got married or you’re lying again. Given your track record, I’d say you’re lying.

You also told Kblaze you we’re invoked with “many beautiful women” so even if she is your wife you’ve been cheating on her for a while.

3ba11

10-30-2021, 02:22 PM

Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick... ergo Lebron had a carry-job against a good team

Furthermore, he won 3 games against the 2006 Pistons, which is the same thing as Jordan winning 3 games against the 89 Cavs (except the Pistons were better)

The 06' Pistons were nowhere near the 89' Cavs, who were #1 in SRS and net rating, while having 3 perennial all-stars + 20/5/5 Ron Harper... Jordan won that series by averaging 40/6/8 in a historic upset win, while Lebron only averaged 30 against those Pistons so he lost... :confusedshrug:

Btw, Love averaged 21/11 against those Raptors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..The 89' Cavs destroy those Raptors, yet Jordan beat them with 15 on 40% from Pippen (carry-job against a #1 SRS big 3 super-team)

000

10-30-2021, 02:30 PM

The 06' Pistons were nowhere near the 89' Cavs, who were #1 in SRS and net rating, while having 3 perennial all-stars + 20/5/5 Ron Harper... Jordan won that series by averaging 40/6/8 in a historic upset win, while Lebron only averaged 30 against those Pistons so he lost... :confusedshrug:

Love averaged 21/11 against those Raptors, so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..
The 06 Pistons were a ~65-win team, whereas the Cavs werent all that - like comparing 2016 warriors to 2016 spurs

And the Pistons had folks like Billups, Hamilton, both Wallaces...

And Jordan only needed 3 wins, so its not a legitimate victory - he got a 3-2 lead, but plenty of guys have gotten such as the underdog - doesnt mean anything...:confusedshrug:

Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick... ergo Lebron had a carry-job against a good team

3ba11

10-30-2021, 02:41 PM

The 06 Pistons were a 65-win team, whereas the Cavs werent all that - like comparing 2016 warriors to 2016 spurs

And the Pistons had folks like Billups, Hamilton, both Wallaces...

And Jordan only needed 3 wins, so its not a legitimate victory - he got a 3-2 lead, but plenty of guys have gotten such as the underdog - doesnt mean anything...:confusedshrug:

The 89' Cavs played in a smaller league and tougher conference than the 06' Pistons, yet they were still better relative to their tougher comp (SRS, net rating) and had more good players (3 perennial all-stars plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper)..

Furthermore, the 89' Bulls were a low seed lottery cast and Lebron's Cavs were a high seed with decorated players (including the East all-star center and a 22/5/5 all-defender, aka their 1st Round opponent's sidekick).

So it's night and day - Jordan's historic upset > Lebron losing with a veteran, high seed

Lebron defeated the #2 2018 Raptors, while outscoring his sidekick by 13-14 ppg - this is a far greater difference than between Dirk and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals, which confirms that Lebron carried his sidekick... ergo Lebron had a carry-job against a good team

Lebron can't beat a good team with his sidekick playing POORLY - so he never carried his sidekick against a good team

He can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring (too ball-dominant or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume)

TheCorporation

10-30-2021, 03:38 PM

:roll:

https://i.ibb.co/Vv2QrQC/Screenshot-2021-07-20-180658.png

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

Phoenix

10-30-2021, 06:30 PM

Wait...the historical record shows that 3ball was sucking Giannis cawk recently, he was saying THAT about him a year ago??!!

:roll::roll:

8Ball

10-30-2021, 06:31 PM

Wait...the historical record shows that 3ball was sucking Giannis cawk recently, he was saying THAT about him a year ago??!!

:roll::roll:

I have KD in my top 5 all-time

MJ
Kobe
Bird
KD
Giannis

https://i.ibb.co/Vv2QrQC/Screenshot-2021-07-20-180658.png

From absolute trash to top 5 player all time

https://c.tenor.com/9bgNMj-VHNgAAAAM/shaq-laugh.gif

Phoenix

10-30-2021, 06:40 PM

He has him top 5?!!

https://c.tenor.com/rmtvkkGm7xYAAAAM/laugh-cant-hold-it-in.gif

SouBeachTalents

10-30-2021, 06:50 PM

He has him top 5?!!

https://c.tenor.com/rmtvkkGm7xYAAAAM/laugh-cant-hold-it-in.gif
If 2020 isn't recent enough for you

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483954-Richard-Jefferson-said-Giannis-is-a-Pippen&p=14368791&viewfull=1#post14368791

He's a Pippen... Middleton carried him in various games last series and is the 4th quarter closer

He was saying this about Giannis during LAST years playoffs :oldlol: Barely even 4 months ago. Giannis went from a Pippen, aka the worst insult you could give a player according to him, being carried by Middleton, to a top 5 player ever, in the span of about 10 games :applause:

outofstomach

10-30-2021, 06:53 PM

How can we not be? You have 30 thousand posts saying the same thing. Who the fukk on this site isn't aware of your 'historical' information at this point?
:lol

StrongLurk

10-30-2021, 09:05 PM

Never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

Because he can't win with high scoring... (Insert OP)

Remember everyone, this poster has Lebron, Magic, Hakeem, Wilt and Bill Russell outside of the top ten of all time.

Keep this in mind when responding to this poster, because he's just a massive troll. All the poster does is troll.

ELITEpower23

10-31-2021, 12:33 AM

If 2020 isn't recent enough for you

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483954-Richard-Jefferson-said-Giannis-is-a-Pippen&p=14368791&viewfull=1#post14368791

He was saying this about Giannis during LAST years playoffs :oldlol: Barely even 4 months ago. Giannis went from a Pippen, aka the worst insult you could give a player according to him, being carried by Middleton, to a top 5 player ever, in the span of about 10 games :applause:

Certified lunatic :oldlol:

000

10-31-2021, 04:38 AM

The 89' Cavs played in a smaller league and tougher conference than the 06' Pistons, yet they were still better relative to their tougher comp (SRS, net rating) and had more good players (3 perennial all-stars plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper)..

Furthermore, the 89' Bulls were a low seed lottery cast and Lebron's Cavs were a high seed with decorated players (including the East all-star center and a 22/5/5 all-defender, aka their 1st Round opponent's sidekick).

So it's night and day - Jordan's historic upset > Lebron losing with a veteran, high seed

Lebron can't beat a good team with his sidekick playing POORLY - so he never carried his sidekick against a good team

He can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring (too ball-dominant or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume)
The 06 Pistons were far better in terms of W-L, which is what teams actually care about... of course, the Pistons were still just 0.5 from being the top SRS team, so they were for real

And Lebrons team had 0 "decorated players":roll: especially in the actual series against the Pistons, where Ilgauskas averaged 11 and Hughes was injured and averaged fuсkall - those are the allstars youre hyping up...

Lebron can't beat a good team with his sidekick playing POORLY
Sure... but thanks for confirming that outscoring your sidekick by more than Dirk outscored Terry doesnt count as carrying them

Axe

10-31-2021, 09:22 PM

Father time is catching up. Regardless, he'll be cemented as one of the goat sfs the league has ever seen.

Koresh

11-01-2021, 01:37 AM

8Ball

11-01-2021, 10:26 AM

Never forget:

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

SaintzFury13

11-01-2021, 04:34 PM

No one said that he did

I did.

He asked me to name an example of LeBron winning a finals series where he averaged five points more than his second best player. I pointed out literally the very first championship he won, where he averaged more than 6 over Wade.

After that, he changed his definition to 10, even though the point doesn't stand because his logic doesn't work when you apply context and... you know, logic, to it.

3ba11

11-01-2021, 04:52 PM

I did.

He asked me to name an example of LeBron winning a finals series where he averaged five points more than his second best player. I pointed out literally the very first championship he won, where he averaged more than 6 over Wade.

After that, he changed his definition to 10, even though the point doesn't stand because his logic doesn't work when you apply context and... you know, logic, to it.

You're lying but the bottom line (historical record) is that Lebron can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level because his scoring skill is low-caliber

Low caliber = the entire game must slow to a crawl for Lebron to score a lot - the ball must be in his hands excessively and the ball doesn't move (westbrooking strategy) - this can't beat Finals teams, so Lebron needs 1b sidekicks that can match his scoring or come close...

TLDR: Lebron cannot carry the load like MJ because he can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level, nor can he beat good teams when his sidekick plays poorly

3ba11

11-01-2021, 05:04 PM

Dude, he has four ****ing FMVPs.

Also: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career_finals.html

Show me where he carried the scoring load while winning a Finals

I'll wait

And why isn't a steady diet of Lebron's scoring sufficient to win (a carry-job where he's the only guy scoring a lot)?... It's because his scoring skill is low caliber.

Low caliber = the entire game must slow to a crawl for Lebron to score a lot - the ball must be in his hands excessively and the ball doesn't move (westbrooking strategy) - this can't beat Finals teams, so Lebron needs 1b sidekicks that can match his scoring or come close... This low-caliber of scoring also can't beat good teams when the sidekick plays poorly

TLDR: Lebron cannot carry the load like MJ because he can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level, nor can he beat good teams when his sidekick plays poorly

Phoenix

11-01-2021, 05:08 PM

Show me where he carried the scoring load while winning a Finals

I'll wait

And why isn't a steady diet of Lebron's scoring sufficient to win (a carry-job where he's the only guy scoring a lot)?... It's because his scoring skill is low caliber.

Low caliber = the entire game must slow to a crawl for Lebron to score a lot - the ball must be in his hands excessively and the ball doesn't move (westbrooking strategy) - this can't beat Finals teams, so Lebron needs 1b sidekicks that can match his scoring or come close... This low-caliber of scoring also can't beat good teams when the sidekick plays poorly

TLDR: Lebron cannot carry the load like MJ because he can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level, nor can he beat good teams when his sidekick plays poorly

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

3ba11

11-01-2021, 05:19 PM

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

I created an apology thread to Giannis for being dead wrong about him - I now have him at #6 all-time because he defied the super-team era by winning organically - players that climb the organic learning curve and therefore learned how to win are superior to guys that only learned to team-hop and never learned to win (organic)

Let me provide a specific example.... In 1990, Jordan sat idly by as Pippen melted down in Game 7... But by 1992, Jordan was confronting Pippen's bullies in Game 7 and didn't let Pippen fall completely off the map... Jordan learned to be Pippen's enforcer to win... This is a tiny example of the many nuances that must be mastered and understood to win organically.. Giannis figured this out - he learned to win with what he had, so he's superior to guys that never learned how to win, and only learned to team-hop

8Ball

11-01-2021, 05:24 PM

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

:roll:

What a trolling sack of shit with zero beliefs.

RRR3

11-01-2021, 05:25 PM

:roll:

What a trolling sack of shit with zero beliefs.
Snivelball has no shame

3ba11

11-01-2021, 05:31 PM

:roll:

What a trolling sack of shit with zero beliefs.

So your goat can't carry the scoring load in the Finals?

Or when teammates play poorly against good teams?

So he can't carry the load like Jordan?

Got it

8Ball

11-01-2021, 05:31 PM

Only a retard goes from Giannis being a fraud and absolute trash in 2020 to a top 5 GOAT in 2021.

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 05:32 PM

Only a retard goes from Giannis being a fraud and absolute trash in 2020 to a top 5 GOAT in 2021.
Bro, he was still calling him a fraud during last years playoffs :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483954-Richard-Jefferson-said-Giannis-is-a-Pippen&p=14368791&viewfull=1#post14368791

RRR3

11-01-2021, 05:33 PM

So your goat can't carry the scoring load in the Finals?

Or when teammates play poorly against good teams?

So he can't carry the load like Jordan?

Got it
Jordan>LeBron>>>>>Kobe

:cheers:

3ba11

11-01-2021, 05:34 PM

Only a retard goes from Giannis being a fraud in 2020 to a top 5 GOAT in 2021.

Giannis proved me dead wrong

It happens

People with integrity will admit colossal error and improve their takes, while the Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe's of the world just move on to more erroneous takes

Ultimately, Giannis won organically, so he learned how to win - this puts him above guys that only learned to team-hop (KD/Lebron) and never learned to win.

And he's also above the centers and ball-dominators, who need more help to win than anyone else..

That puts him at top 6 all-time.. Giannis is an entirely unique player - the first center-guard ever

8Ball

11-01-2021, 05:34 PM

Bro, he was still calling him a fraud during last years playoffs :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?483954-Richard-Jefferson-said-Giannis-is-a-Pippen&p=14368791&viewfull=1#post14368791

A pippen in 2021 to top 5 GOAT in 2021.

https://c.tenor.com/9bgNMj-VHNgAAAAM/shaq-laugh.gif

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 05:36 PM

A pippen in 2021 to top 5 GOAT in 2021.

https://c.tenor.com/9bgNMj-VHNgAAAAM/shaq-laugh.gif
Went from Pippen being carried by Middleton to top 5 ever in 10 games :lol 2 of which he didn't even play

GrayGoat

11-01-2021, 05:37 PM

Went from Pippen being carried by Middleton to top 5 ever in 10 games :lol 2 of which he didn't even play

3ball always on ice skates lol

3ba11

11-01-2021, 05:39 PM

3ball always on ice skates lol

Actually you guys are on skates for derailing a Lebron thread into a Giannis one because you can't refute the OP that Lebron can't carry the scoring load

GrayGoat

11-01-2021, 05:44 PM

LeBron has scored more than MJ

3ba11

11-01-2021, 06:11 PM

LeBron has scored more than MJ

MJ did more per game.. A lot more

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 06:14 PM

MJ did more per game.. A lot more
And LeBron scores more per game than Kobe

Phoenix

11-01-2021, 06:44 PM

I created an apology thread to Giannis for being dead wrong about him - I now have him at #6 all-time because he defied the super-team era by winning organically - players that climb the organic learning curve and therefore learned how to win are superior to guys that only learned to team-hop and never learned to win (organic)

Let me provide a specific example.... In 1990, Jordan sat idly by as Pippen melted down in Game 7... But by 1992, Jordan was confronting Pippen's bullies in Game 7 and didn't let Pippen fall completely off the map... Jordan learned to be Pippen's enforcer to win... This is a tiny example of the many nuances that must be mastered and understood to win organically.. Giannis figured this out - he learned to win with what he had, so he's superior to guys that never learned how to win, and only learned to team-hop

From a Pippen level player( top 1000 peak, your words) to top 6 all time in a year. Actually not even in a year, from halfway through the playoffs to the end of the finals.....all in 2021. You were better off pretending you didn't see my post and kept it moving, instead of doubling down to remove any doubt of how idiotic both the original take was and going all the way to the other end of the spectrum declaring Giannis a top 6 GOAT. The key holding the cell you need to be in should be melted down for all eternity.

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 06:55 PM

From a Pippen level player( top 1000 peak, your words) to top 6 all time in a year. Actually not even in a year, from halfway through the playoffs to the end of the finals.....all in 2021. You were better off pretending you didn't see my post and kept it moving, instead of doubling down to remove any doubt of how idiotic both the original take was and going all the way to the other end of the spectrum declaring Giannis a top 6 GOAT. The key holding the cell you need to be in should be melted down for all eternity.
I also just noticed in the post above yours he claims Giannis is ranked ahead of team hoppers who never learned to win like KD, when in the list he just made, which you showed on the previous page, he literally has KD ranked ahead of Giannis :lol Then on top of that, when he wanted to make room for Kawhi in his top 5 (lol), he bumped out Giannis and not KD :lol

RRR3

11-01-2021, 07:09 PM

Phoenix

11-01-2021, 07:09 PM

RRR3

11-01-2021, 07:11 PM

:roll:

Dude is absolutely mindfukked by the daily ISH beatdowns.
He literally doesn’t understand that we’re destroying him. He doesn’t get it. He can’t. He is completely batshit insane.

8Ball

11-01-2021, 07:51 PM

Went from Pippen being carried by Middleton to top 5 ever in 10 games :lol 2 of which he didn't even play

A Pippen in June 2021 and 8 playoff games later top 5 GOAT in 2021.

https://c.tenor.com/9bgNMj-VHNgAAAAM/shaq-laugh.gif

Giannis 8 playoff games in 2021 -> Top 5 GOAT.

8Ball

11-01-2021, 07:57 PM

Giannis averaged 35/13/5 vs Phoenix = TOP 5 GOAT.

Shaq 2000 finals = 38/17/2 = NOT Top 5 GOAT.

https://c.tenor.com/yMoGbkuQHsUAAAAM/shaq-laughing.gif

Axe

11-01-2021, 08:07 PM

Op, wth is your trada7029 dup to back your sorry ass up?

3ba11

11-01-2021, 08:12 PM

Giannis averaged 35/13/5 vs Phoenix = TOP 5 GOAT.

Shaq 2000 finals = 38/17/2 = NOT Top 5 GOAT.

https://c.tenor.com/yMoGbkuQHsUAAAAM/shaq-laughing.gif

Shaq was facing Lebron's Cavs, Iverson's Sixers, Kidd's Nets - a lot of 1-star teams were winning the East at that time so beating that caliber of comp means nothing

3ba11

11-01-2021, 08:17 PM

I also just noticed in the post above yours he claims Giannis is ranked ahead of team hoppers who never learned to win like KD, when in the list he just made, which you showed on the previous page, he literally has KD ranked ahead of Giannis :lol Then on top of that, when he wanted to make room for Kawhi in his top 5 (lol), he bumped out Giannis and not KD :lol

Parameters for top 5 all-time:

1) No team-hoppers - must know how to WIN (organic)

2) No ball-dominators or centers because these 1-dimensional styles need super-teams or goat help to win

Conclusion: the top 5 all-time players in order are MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Giannis

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 08:30 PM

Parameters for top 5 all-time:

1) No team-hoppers - must know how to WIN (organic)

2) No ball-dominators or centers because these 1-dimensional styles need super-teams or goat help to win

Conclusion: the top 5 all-time players in order are MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Giannis
So you've changed your top 5 again in the time it takes to watch a movie? Less than 3 hours ago

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498685-Lebron-can-t-carry-scoring-load-to-win-a-Finals-can-t-be-offensive-anchor-in-Finals/page5

That puts him at top 6 all-time

3ba11

11-01-2021, 08:32 PM

For the record, this thread was derailed to a Giannis topic because no one can dispute the historical record that Lebron can't carry the scoring load in the Finals or beat good teams when teammates play poorly, aka he can't carry the scoring load, aka can't carry teams like MJ

3ba11

11-01-2021, 08:33 PM

So you've changed your top 5 again in the time it takes to watch a movie? Less than 3 hours ago

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498685-Lebron-can-t-carry-scoring-load-to-win-a-Finals-can-t-be-offensive-anchor-in-Finals/page5

You made a good point about KD, so I had to change the rankings - but I think they're correct now with no team-hoppers, centers or ball-dominators in the top 5, aka MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Giannis

Thanks for the tip

GrayGoat

11-01-2021, 08:37 PM

You made a good point about KD, so I had to change the rankings - but I think they're correct now with no team-hoppers, centers or ball-dominators in the top 5, aka MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Giannis

Thanks for the tip

Kawhi team-hopped to a 50-win team(Raptors). Not a good look chico

hold this L

11-01-2021, 08:37 PM

Finally found out the complex, high Bball IQ manner that 2ball goes through to find the best, most correct top all time NBA list. :applause:

https://c.tenor.com/zRuBXjo2fxoAAAAC/spin-spin-the-wheel.gif

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 08:39 PM

3ba11

11-01-2021, 08:43 PM

Kawhi team-hopped to a 50-win team(Raptors). Not a good look chico

He would've won the chip last year if healthy.. Maybe 2017 and other years too

His run in 2019 is all-time great - better than anything Lebron and his super-teams ever did

SouBeachTalents

11-01-2021, 08:44 PM

He would've won the chip last year if healthy.. Maybe 2017 and other years too

His run in 2019 is all-time great - better than anything Lebron and his super-teams ever did
And he would've last the chip in 2019 if the Warriors were healthy.

000

11-02-2021, 04:16 AM

He would've won the chip last year if healthy.. Maybe 2017 and other years too

His run in 2019 is all-time great - better than anything Lebron and his super-teams ever did
so he wouldve averaged 19+ against a healthy Finals team? coz he nvr did that in reality:eek:

Axe

11-02-2021, 05:19 AM

so he wouldve averaged 19+ against a healthy Finals team? coz he nvr did that in reality:eek:
The same finals where curry averaged more than that during that time but they still lost. :(

Oh, and in the preceding series, they swept without kd as well.

000

11-02-2021, 05:22 AM

The same finals where curry averaged more than that during that time but they still lost. :(

Oh, and in the preceding series, they swept without kd as well.
meltdown

3ba11

11-02-2021, 12:04 PM

And he would've last the chip in 2019 if the Warriors were healthy.

Kawhi demolished an experienced and dominant Curry/Klay (31 and 26 ppg), so that's a bigger achievement than Lebron beating the inexperienced, bed-wetting Curry/Klay in 2016 (22 and 19 ppg) due to the Draymond suspension.

And KD actually played and won a game in the 2019 Finals, so that offsets Klay missing slightly more than 1 game (offset by the draymond suspension)

sdot_thadon

11-02-2021, 12:29 PM

Op he literally carried perhaps the biggest load we've ever seen in 2016 lol. Who else led a FINALS in every statistical category. I think with that we can give him a pass for whatever imaginary scoring load fantasy you got going on.

3ba11

11-02-2021, 03:49 PM

GrayGoat

11-02-2021, 03:51 PM

Lebron can't carry the scoring load, so he can't carry teams

Op carry’s loads on his face

SouBeachTalents

11-02-2021, 03:52 PM

Lebron can't carry the scoring load, so he can't carry teams
Neither can Larry Bird. He got outscored in 3 of his 5 Finals and 2 of his 3 Finals wins.

3ba11

11-02-2021, 04:04 PM

Neither can Larry Bird. He got outscored in 3 of his 5 Finals and 2 of his 3 Finals wins.

Bird carried the Celtics in the 84' Finals, whereas Lebron always had equal-scoring teammates or close.

Btw, the 84' Finals was a big upset win for Bird

GrayGoat

11-02-2021, 04:17 PM

Bird carried the Celtics in the 84' Finals, whereas Lebron always had equal-scoring teammates or close.

Btw, the 84' Finals was a big upset win for Bird
Pretty sure Wade was the 2nd option on the heat and scored like 14ppg for one of the finals. Equal load tho…

3ba11

11-02-2021, 04:24 PM

Pretty sure Wade was the 2nd option on the heat and scored like 14ppg for one of the finals. Equal load tho…

There's levels to this - let's explore

The biggest gap Lebron ever had over his teammates was 6 ppg in the 12' Finals... In 2013, the gap was only 5 and Wade outscored the opposing #1 option.

And Wade averaged 20/5/5 in the 13' Finals, so Lebron never beat a good team with his sidekick playing poorly, in addition to never winning the Finals while carrying the scoring load

SouBeachTalents

11-02-2021, 04:28 PM

Bird carried the Celtics in the 84' Finals, whereas Lebron always had equal-scoring teammates or close.

Btw, the 84' Finals was a big upset win for Bird
LeBron’s lead his team in Finals scoring 9 times, Bird led his team in Finals scoring twice. You can cling to a literal one series sample size, but LeBron’s led his team in Finals scoring for 100% of his titles, Bird 33%, and LeBron averages several more ppg in the Finals.

RRR3

11-02-2021, 04:33 PM

3ba11

11-02-2021, 04:38 PM

LeBron’s lead his team in Finals scoring 9 times, Bird led his team in Finals scoring twice. You can cling to a literal one series sample size, but LeBron’s led his team in Finals scoring for 100% of his titles, Bird 33%, and LeBron averages several more ppg in the Finals.

In addition to Bird showing that he could carry the scoring load in the 84' Finals, there's other factors that put Bird over Lebron - Bird's elite jumpshooting skill and off-ball ability yielded better teammate fits and better strategy (ball movement), which yielded better team ceilings/Finals record - Bird simply yielded better teams

SouBeachTalents

11-02-2021, 04:46 PM

In addition to Bird showing that he could carry the scoring load in the 84' Finals, there's other factors that put Bird over Lebron - Bird's elite jumpshooting skill and off-ball ability yielded better teammate fits and better strategy (ball movement), which yielded better team ceilings/Finals record - Bird simply yielded better teams
I can’t even imagine what you’d say if LeBron won a Finals averaging 15 ppg on 46%TS against a 40 win team while getting outscored by a guy who never even made an all-star game :lol

RRR3

11-02-2021, 04:49 PM

I can’t even imagine what you’d say if LeBron won a Finals averaging 15 ppg on 46%TS against a 40 win team while getting outscored by a guy who never even made an all-star game :lol
He gives Kobe full credit for a finals in which he averaged 15.6 PPG on 41% TS and was outplayed by Austin Croshere (while having a teammate average an efficient ~38/16). Only LeBron gets held to these standards. And yet these guys are supposedly better than LeBron :lol Even he doesn’t believe that. Clearly.

3ba11

11-02-2021, 04:49 PM

I can’t even imagine what you’d say if LeBron won a Finals averaging 15 ppg on 46%TS against a 40 win team while getting outscored by a guy who never even made an all-star game :lol

Aside from the goat, every player laid an egg in a big series - see the 07 or 11' Finals

RRR3

11-02-2021, 04:52 PM

Aside from the goat, every player laid an egg in a big series - see the 07 or 11' Finals
But you said Kobe was the GOAT.

https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg

And he was horrible in the finals. Hmm.

3ba11

11-02-2021, 04:57 PM

But you said Kobe was the GOAT.

https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg

And he was horrible in the finals. Hmm.

Kobe was never horrible in the Finals - he closed out a Finals game in the 2000 Finals, which Lebron never did - Lebron never closed in the Finals, or damn-near ever

RRR3

11-02-2021, 05:02 PM

Kobe was never horrible in the Finals - he closed out a Finals game in the 2000 Finals, which Lebron never did - Lebron never closed in the Finals, or damn-near ever
:roll:

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% | 41 TS%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

Also lmao at LeBron never closing out a finals game: https://youtu.be/YRIMQi7X7mI

SoyTits

11-02-2021, 05:04 PM

dont look at my post history that would be very embarrassing hur durr

https://i.ibb.co/52Y1LN1/77-B16-AB3-50-E6-4634-9430-4-D9561808-C0-A.jpg

8Ball

11-02-2021, 05:04 PM

:roll:

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% | 41 TS%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

Also lmao at LeBron never closing out a finals game: https://youtu.be/YRIMQi7X7mI

My God he gets destroyed nonstop.

SouBeachTalents

11-02-2021, 05:05 PM

Kobe was never horrible in the Finals - he closed out a Finals game in the 2000 Finals, which Lebron never did - Lebron never closed in the Finals, or damn-near ever
:roll: It’s like arguing with a QAnon supporter, literally lives in their own reality. Yeah bro, Kobe was fcking stellar in ‘00 & ‘04.

3ba11

11-02-2021, 05:14 PM

:roll: It’s like arguing with a QAnon supporter, literally lives in their own reality. Yeah bro, Kobe was fcking stellar in ‘00 & ‘04.

Lebron had a zero plus-minus and negative net rating in the 2013 Finals, so the Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor... He was carried in those Finals and locked up by the donut man

Otoh, Kobe's plus-minus and net rating was always outstanding in Finals victories because he provided real value

RRR3

11-02-2021, 07:14 PM

Lebron had a zero plus-minus and negative net rating in the 2013 Finals, so the Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor... He was carried in those Finals and locked up by the donut man

Otoh, Kobe's plus-minus and net rating was always outstanding in Finals victories because he provided real value
Did the Lakers win with Kobe on the floor in 2000 and 2004? :yaohappy:

RRR3

11-02-2021, 07:15 PM

SouBeachTalents

11-02-2021, 07:37 PM

Lebron had a zero plus-minus and negative net rating in the 2013 Finals, so the Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor... He was carried in those Finals and locked up by the donut man

Otoh, Kobe's plus-minus and net rating was always outstanding in Finals victories because he provided real value
Locked up LeBron: 25 ppg on 53%TS
Kobe's career Finals average: 25 ppg on 51%TS

And no short of retardation claiming a guy that led his team in points, assists, rebounds and steals was carried

Axe

11-02-2021, 08:06 PM

Kobe was never horrible in the Finals - he closed out a Finals game in the 2000 Finals, which Lebron never did - Lebron never closed in the Finals, or damn-near ever
Pippen averaged at least 20 ppg in his first trip to the finals which happened in 1991, unlike your true hero who did only almost 16 ppg in 2000 while shaq also had to be burdened in disciplining him as well.

sdot_thadon

11-02-2021, 11:34 PM

Lebron can't carry the scoring load, so he can't carry teams

But he carried not only the scoring load, but the playmaking load, the rebounding load, the defensive load, the team's bags, the dj's speakers and your worst nightmares all in the same series.....

HBK_Kliq_2

11-02-2021, 11:38 PM

19 year old jalen green is even destroying lebron tonight 18 pts at half Hahahaha

2022-2027 is kawhi rest of his prime and time for lebron to hit the road he's done wow

3ba11

11-03-2021, 01:48 AM

But he carried not only the scoring load, but the playmaking load, the rebounding load, the defensive load, the team's bags, the dj's speakers and your worst nightmares all in the same series.....

Love averaged nearly the same rebounds as Lebron, so it was a shared load... ditto the steals or blocks - teammates nearly matched him in every category except ball-dominance (assists).

Otoh, only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals, while Lebron never did

Btw, Kawhi beat a dominant version of Curry/Klay (31 and 26 ppg), while Lebron beat the inexperienced, bed-wetting Curry/Klay (22 and 19 ppg) - the draymond suspension offsets the 1 game that Klay missed, and KD actually won a game in the 19' Finals too.

3ba11

11-03-2021, 01:59 AM

Pippen averaged 20 ppg in his first trip to the finals which happened in 1991, unlike your true hero who did only almost 16 ppg in 2000 while shaq also had to be burdened in disciplining him as well.

Imagine that being the best someone every played, yet he's top 75 all-time

that's how dumb people are

Otoh, Worthy averaged 22 on 64% in his first Finals, but that wasn't his peak - he averaged 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF, or led the Lakers in scoring for back-to-back title runs in the playoffs, including FMVP... now THAT'S top 75

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:01 AM

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:02 AM

Did the Lakers win with Kobe on the floor in 2000 and 2004? :yaohappy:
He had no response for this either :lol

3ba11

11-03-2021, 02:08 AM

He had no response for this either :lol

Kobe had a positive net rating and plus-minus in 2000 Finals (Lebron was negative in 2013 Finals)

And 2004 is irrelevant because we're only talking about these guys being carried to WINS - Lebron was carried in 2013 (negative net rating and plus/minus), while Kobe never was

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:10 AM

Kobe had a positive net rating and plus-minus in 2000 Finals (Lebron was negative in 2013 Finals)

And 2004 is irrelevant because we're only talking about these guys being carried to WINS - Lebron was carried in 2013 (negative net rating and plus/minus), while Kobe never was
Proof? You’ve been known to lie.

And are you seriously saying LeBron was carried in 2013 and Kobe wasn’t carried in 2000?

3ba11

11-03-2021, 02:18 AM

Proof? You’ve been known to lie.

And are you seriously saying LeBron was carried in 2013 and Kobe wasn’t carried in 2000?

Misremembering a few tenths of a point on a stat isn't "lying" and I'm happy to provide proof that Kobe had a positive plus/minus and net rating in the 2000 Finals

plus/minus: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/traditional/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

net rating: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/advanced/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

Otoh, Lebron had a zero plus/minus and negative net rating in the 13' Finals, so the Heat didn't win with him on the floor.

So Kobe >>>>.... And Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games and his 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 games - he needed a bailout, while Kobe closed the show in Game 4 to seal the series and prevent a 7th game, aka not carried

000

11-03-2021, 02:39 AM

Misremembering a few tenths of a point on a stat isn't "lying" and I'm happy to provide proof that Kobe had a positive plus/minus and net rating in the 2000 Finals

plus/minus: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/traditional/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

net rating: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/advanced/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

Otoh, Lebron had a zero plus/minus and negative net rating in the 13' Finals, so the Heat didn't win with him on the floor.

So Kobe >>>>.... And Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games and his 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 games - he needed a bailout, while Kobe closed the show in Game 4 to seal the series and prevent a 7th game, aka not carried
gasol had a higher +/- and netrtg than kobe in the 2010 finals

once again, my theory that gasol carried kobe is vindicated - he carried him in the 4th quarter of both finals, and in the entire 2010 finals:applause:

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:41 AM

Misremembering a few tenths of a point on a stat isn't "lying" and I'm happy to provide proof that Kobe had a positive plus/minus and net rating in the 2000 Finals

plus/minus: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/traditional/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

net rating: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/advanced/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

Otoh, Lebron had a zero plus/minus and negative net rating in the 13' Finals, so the Heat didn't win with him on the floor.

So Kobe >>>>.... And Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games and his 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 games - he needed a bailout, while Kobe closed the show in Game 4 to seal the series and prevent a 7th game, aka not carried
Saying Kobe wasn’t carried in the 2000 finals is absurd given his production. Kobe had a negative +/- in the 2002 WCF, by your logic he was carried in that series and not in the 2000 finals despite him being a much better player in 2002. See how retarded you sound? So, Kobe was carried in the 2002 wcf right? Be consistent now, Snivelly. And 00 finals Kobe>02 WCF Kobe? :lol

3ba11

11-03-2021, 02:46 AM

Saying Kobe wasn’t carried in the 2000 finals is absurd given his production. Kobe had a negative +/- in the 2002 WCF, by your logic he was carried in that series and not in the 2000 finals despite him being a much better player in 2002. See how retarded you sound? So, Kobe was carried in the 2002 wcf right? Be consistent now, Snivelly. And 00 finals Kobe>02 WCF Kobe? :lol

Kobe was never carried in a Finals win - only Lebron was (negative net rating and plus/minus in the 2013 Finals)

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:49 AM

I am a retarded bot
Kobe had to be carried in the 2002 WCF just to get to the finals :applause:

Your own logic he had a negative +/- :lol

3ba11

11-03-2021, 02:54 AM

Kobe had to be carried in the 2002 WCF just to get to the finals :applause:

Your own logic he had a negative +/- :lol

But not in the Finals - not on the championship level...

Only Lebron is carried in the Finals, aka his team didn't win with him on the floor in the 2013 Finals.. What more do you want? If a team literally loses with him on the floor but still wins the series - that's getting carried

And it's crazy because he literally needed the most amazing shot in Finals history to save his career and maintain the manufactured legacy... if Ray Allen misses, then Lebron's manufactured resume crumbles like a jenga puzzle.

RRR3

11-03-2021, 02:58 AM

000

11-03-2021, 02:59 AM

But not in the Finals - not on the championship level...

exactly - lebron only needed to be carried in the finals, while kobe needed it before that - shame on you kobe, smh

and gasol had a better +/- and netrtg than kobe in the 2010 finals, so he was the real culprit behind the victory - aka kobe was carried by his sidekick

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:00 AM

But not in the Finals - not on the championship level...

Only Lebron is carried in the Finals, aka his team didn't win with him on the floor in the 2013 Finals.. What more do you want? If a team literally loses with him on the floor but still wins the series - that's getting carried

And it's crazy because he literally needed the most amazing shot in Finals history to save his career and maintain the manufactured legacy... if Ray Allen misses, then Lebron's manufactured resume crumbles like a jenga puzzle.
1. They didn’t lose with him on the floor. They were +11 with him on the floor in the games they won. Why are you citing stats from the losses? That just proves his team was incapable of carrying him :lol

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:01 AM

LeBron was +11.0 and had a netRTG of 12.8 in the four Heat wins in the 2013 finals. By Sniveball’s own logic he wasn’t carried in those wins. Congrats on proving LeBron was “carried” the 3 times the Heat lost I guess?

Even if we use your dumb criteria counting +/- from loases as evidence of being “carried” (to what? Lmao) Kobe had a negative +/- in the 2000 WCF which means he was carried to just get to the finals. And then he did it again in 2002. :lol

If a team loses with Lebron on the floor but still wins the series - that's getting carried and that's what happened to Lebron in the 2013 Finals (negative net rating and plus/minus) - and it was Ray Allen's very positive plus/minus that saved the Heat, along with his miracle shot

Otoh, Kobe was never carried in the Finals because his team won with him on the floor.

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:02 AM

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:06 AM

In game 7 of the 2010 finals, Kobe had a +/- of 0 in a game the Lakers won by 4. So they were better with him off the court :biggums: CARRIED IN A DO OR DIE GAME 7 by 3ball’s own logic.

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:09 AM

The rat scurried away.

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:09 AM

Did they win with LeBron on the floor in the 4 games they won? Yes or no.

The Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor in the 2013 Finals, so his FMVP should be nullified and returned - how can someone be "most valuable" when the team didn't win with you on the floor?... it's just more fraud but you'll never hear this kind of truth on ESPN

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:10 AM

The Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor in the 2013 Finals, so his FMVP should be nullified and returned - how can someone be "most valuable" when the team didn't win with you on the floor?... it's just more fraud but you'll never hear this kind of truth on ESPN
Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their 4 wins in the 2013 finals? Yes or no? Why can’t you answer this?

000

11-03-2021, 03:12 AM

If a team loses with Lebron on the floor but still wins the series - that's getting carried and that's what happened to Lebron in the 2013 Finals (negative net rating and plus/minus) - and it was Ray Allen's very positive plus/minus that saved the Heat, along with his miracle shot
If a teammate has better net rating and plus/minus than Kobe - that's getting carried and that's what happened to Kobe in the 2010 Finals (inferior net rating and plus/minus) - and it was Pau Gasol's superior plus/minus that saved the Lakers, along with his efficient 4th quarter play

Also, Gasol had an equal plus/minus and a superior net rating for the entire 2010 playoffs - so one could make the argument that Kobe was carried throughout an entire Finals run

Also, in 2009 the Lakers locked down Howard:

2009 RS - 21 on 60% TS
2009 ECF - 26 on 69% TS
2009 Finals - 15 on 56% TS

So it was the Lakers defense that won the 2009 Finals, not Kobe

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:17 AM

Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their 4 wins in the 2013 finals? Yes or no? Why can’t you answer this?

No, he wasn't

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306180MIA.html

Sorry bub... your boy ain't goat or anywhere near.. It's all a fraud.. No Santa Claus... I'm very happy to inform you of these facts

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:19 AM

No, he wasn't

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201306180MIA.html

Sorry bub... your boy ain't goat or anywhere near.. It's all a fraud.. No Santa Claus... I'm very happy to inform you of these facts
So now we’re down to one game? The Lakers were worse with Kobe on the floor in game 7 of the 2010 finals. Carried by your own logic :applause:

So Kobe was carried in 2010 right?

000

11-03-2021, 03:27 AM

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:39 AM

So now we’re down to one game? The Lakers were worse with Kobe on the floor in game 7 of the 2010 finals. Carried by your own logic :applause:

So Kobe was carried in 2010 right?

Lakers were break-even with Kobe on the floor in Game 7, and massively up for the series - Kobe averaged scored 10 more than his sidekick, so he carried the scoring load, which Lebron can't do in the Finals (needs 1b's)

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:44 AM

Lakers were break-even with Kobe on the floor in Game 7, and massively up for the series - Kobe averaged scored 10 more than his sidekick, so he carried the scoring load, which Lebron can't do in the Finals (needs 1b's)
Games don’t end when they’re even :lol They were + 4 with Kobe off the court. They were better with him off by your own logic. Yikes. Carried. Kobe couldn’t close it out without his teammates :(

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:46 AM

Games don’t end when they’re even :lol They were + 4 with Kobe off the court. They were better with him off by your own logic. Yikes. Carried. Kobe couldn’t close it out without his teammates :(

Only Lebron wins titles while his team loses with him on the floor and has to make it up when he isn't playing... :facepalm:... yikes

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:47 AM

Only Lebron wins titles while his team loses with him on the floor and has to make it up when he isn't playing... :facepalm:... yikes
Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their 4 wins in the 2013 finals? Yes or no? Why can’t you answer this?

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:49 AM

Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their 4 wins in the 2013 finals? Yes or no? Why can’t you answer this?

They lost with him on the floor in Game 6, so no..

They probably lost other games too, but I only checked Game 6

RRR3

11-03-2021, 03:56 AM

They lost with him on the floor in Game 6, so no..

They probably lost other games too, but I only checked Game 6
I said the FOUR GAMES they won. I did not say game 6. Answer the question.

Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their FOUR WINS in the 2013 finals? Yes or no?

3ba11

11-03-2021, 03:58 AM

I said the FOUR GAMES they won. I did not say game 6. Answer the question.

Did the Heat win with LeBron on the floor in their FOUR WINS in the 2013 finals? Yes or no?

Who cares if they make it up in other games - he was saved in Game 6

period

with a negative plus/minus and Ray saved his career

So Lebron was saved in Game 6, while Kobe himself saved (in Game 4)

night and day... and confirmed by the stats - plus/minus and net rating

RRR3

11-03-2021, 04:01 AM

Who cares if they make it up in other games - he was saved in Game 6

period

with a negative plus/minus and Ray saved his career

So Lebron was saved in Game 6, while Kobe himself saved (in Game 4)

night and day.
So Kobe was saved in game 7 of the 2010 finals :applause: They didn’t win with him on the court.

3ba11

11-03-2021, 04:05 AM

So Kobe was saved in game 7 of the 2010 finals :applause: They didn’t win with him on the court.

Lakers won the series with Kobe on the court, while the Heat lost the series with Lebron on the court

RRR3

11-03-2021, 04:15 AM

Lakers won the series with Kobe on the court, while the Heat lost the series with Lebron on the court
1. The Heat didn’t lose the series with LeBron on the court.
2. They were +11 in the games they won. Therefore he wasn’t carried by your own logic. If you isolate game 6, then we can do the same with Kobe in game 7 of 2010 and say he was carried.

3ba11

11-03-2021, 04:30 AM

1. The Heat didn’t lose the series with LeBron on the court.
2. They were +11 in the games they won. Therefore he wasn’t carried by your own logic. If you isolate game 6, then we can do the same with Kobe in game 7 of 2010 and say he was carried.

Lakers won the series with Kobe on the court, while the Heat didn't win the series with Lebron on the court (zero plus/minus and negative net rating)

And Kobe's career wasn't saved by any teammate, while Lebron's career was saved by Ray Allen

RRR3

11-03-2021, 04:35 AM

Lakers won the series with Kobe on the court, while the Heat didn't win the series with Lebron on the court (zero plus/minus and negative net rating)

And Kobe's career wasn't saved by any teammate, while Lebron's career was saved by Ray Allen
The Heat won the series with LeBron on the court. He was +11 in their 4 wins. Why does it matter what his +/- was in losses if you’re trying to prove the team carried him. You can’t get carried to a loss :lol

3ba11

11-03-2021, 04:56 AM

The Heat won the series with LeBron on the court. He was +11 in their 4 wins. Why does it matter what his +/- was in losses if you’re trying to prove the team carried him. You can’t get carried to a loss :lol

They lost Game 6 with him on the court and therefore didn't win the series with him on the court, just like the stats say - Lebron is the only guy that won a Finals while his team actually didn't win when he played... :oldlol:... tough facts to get past

RRR3

11-03-2021, 05:05 AM

They lost Game 6 with him on the court and therefore didn't win the series with him on the court, just like the stats say - Lebron is the only guy that won a Finals while his team actually didn't win when he played... :oldlol:... tough facts to get past
The Lakers didn’t win game 7 with Kobe on the court. Kobe won a finals game while his team didn’t win when he played…tough facts to get past

SaintzFury13

11-03-2021, 06:00 AM

You're lying

No, I'm not.

You tried claiming LeBron never averaged higher than five above his second best teammate in a finals winning series, and I proved that statement wrong. Ever since then, you've stuck with the 10 argument. The truth is that it doesn't even matter if he didn't average more than 5 (which he did). Either way your logic doesn't work.

SaintzFury13

11-03-2021, 06:02 AM

I created an apology thread to Giannis for being dead wrong about him - I now have him at #6 all-time because he defied the super-team era by winning organically

So Giannis won one championship and that put him all the way at number 6 all time for you after you originally hated him?

How do you function on a daily basis?

Kobe was never horrible in the Finals - he closed out a Finals game in the 2000 Finals, which Lebron never did - Lebron never closed in the Finals, or damn-near ever

2013 says hi.

Imagine that being the best someone every played, yet he's top 75 all-time

that's how dumb people are

There's this thing called versatility, you idiot.

SaintzFury13

11-03-2021, 06:06 AM

Saying Kobe wasn’t carried in the 2000 finals is absurd given his production. Kobe had a negative +/- in the 2002 WCF, by your logic he was carried in that series and not in the 2000 finals despite him being a much better player in 2002. See how retarded you sound? So, Kobe was carried in the 2002 wcf right? Be consistent now, Snivelly. And 00 finals Kobe>02 WCF Kobe? :lol

Kevin Love had the highest +/- in the 2016 NBA Finals. By 3ball's logic, Kevin Love carried the Cavaliers to a 2016 Championship.

3ba11

11-03-2021, 04:03 PM

No, I'm not.

You tried claiming LeBron never averaged higher than five above his second best teammate in a finals winning series, and I proved that statement wrong. Ever since then, you've stuck with the 10 argument. The truth is that it doesn't even matter if he didn't average more than 5 (which he did). Either way your logic doesn't work.

I never asked you to show me where Lebron led his sidekick by 5 - you made that up

Lebron simply can't carry the load like MJ because he can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level and win, nor can he beat good teams when his sidekick plays poorly

SaintzFury13

11-03-2021, 04:59 PM

I never asked you to show me where Lebron led his sidekick by 5 - you made that up

I did not. At some point you need to learn to own up to your failures.

sdot_thadon

11-03-2021, 05:01 PM

Love averaged nearly the same rebounds as Lebron, so it was a shared load... ditto the steals or blocks - teammates nearly matched him in every category except ball-dominance (assists).

Otoh, only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals, while Lebron never did

Btw, Kawhi beat a dominant version of Curry/Klay (31 and 26 ppg), while Lebron beat the inexperienced, bed-wetting Curry/Klay (22 and 19 ppg) - the draymond suspension offsets the 1 game that Klay missed, and KD actually won a game in the 19' Finals too.
Yeah, sure. Mj carried a single aspect of basketball in the finals. Lebron carried every aspect of basketball in the finals.

BigShotBob

11-03-2021, 05:08 PM

Yeah, sure. Mj carried a single aspect of basketball in the finals. Lebron carried every aspect of basketball in the finals.

No.

sdot_thadon

11-03-2021, 10:19 PM

No.

I mean I'm pretty sure he checked off every category while putting up some goat level defensive stats the last few games.....

SaintzFury13

11-04-2021, 06:41 AM

I mean I'm pretty sure he checked off every category while putting up some goat level defensive stats the last few games.....

They aren't going to acknowledge it. 3ball can't even admit to changing his own arguments.

Axe

11-04-2021, 11:38 AM

Yeah, sure. Mj carried a single aspect of basketball in the finals. Lebron carried every aspect of basketball in the finals.
Having scrub teammates had a lot to do with it.

SaintzFury13

11-04-2021, 03:15 PM

Having scrub teammates had a lot to do with it.

Impossible. According to everyone else on here, LeBron had superteams up the ass.

sdot_thadon

11-04-2021, 04:23 PM

Impossible. According to everyone else on here, LeBron had superteams up the ass.

Don't worry, once you make a sensible statement he'll abandon the thread and start.a new one.

SaintzFury13

11-04-2021, 05:42 PM

Don't worry, once you make a sensible statement he'll abandon the thread and start.a new one.

He's already abandoning it now. I called him out on him changing his numbers up after he was proven wrong the first time and he's had no answer for it.

SaintzFury13

11-04-2021, 07:20 PM

Don't worry, once you make a sensible statement he'll abandon the thread and start.a new one.

And just like that, he literally creates a new thread.

He is far too predictable.

3ba11

11-04-2021, 07:23 PM

Yeah, sure. Mj carried a single aspect of basketball in the finals. Lebron carried every aspect of basketball in the finals.

Love matched Lebron's rebounds and Kyrie matched his scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

SaintzFury13

11-04-2021, 09:39 PM

Love matched Lebron's rebounds and Kyrie matched his scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

Nope. Going off of your own logic, all you need is to average 5 points or more than your teammate to prove you are capable of carrying the load offensively. LeBron did that twice.

Also, Love matched LeBron's rebounding?

LeBron James RPG 2016 Finals: 11.3
Kevin Love RPG 2016 Finals: 6.8 (and he didn't play in game 3)

How is that even close to matching his rebounding?

You never cease to amaze. You always manage to reach another level of dumbassery I thought unimaginable.

Axe

11-04-2021, 10:51 PM

Impossible. According to everyone else on here, LeBron had superteams up the ass.
Just because that's what they want you to believe doesn't mean you have to.

Axe

11-04-2021, 10:51 PM

Don't worry, once you make a sensible statement he'll abandon the thread and start.a new one.
Excuse me?

sdot_thadon

11-04-2021, 11:18 PM

Excuse me?

That was in reference to 3bot my man. You actually exhibit human, non robotic qualities and behavior lol.

3ba11

11-05-2021, 11:25 AM

Nope. Going off of your own logic, all you need is to average 5 points or more than your teammate to prove you are capable of carrying the load offensively. LeBron did that twice.

Also, Love matched LeBron's rebounding?

LeBron James RPG 2016 Finals: 11.3
Kevin Love RPG 2016 Finals: 6.8 (and he didn't play in game 3)

How is that even close to matching his rebounding?

You never cease to amaze. You always manage to reach another level of dumbassery I thought unimaginable.

Tristan Thompson averaged 10 rebounds and Lebron 11 (shared load), while Kyrie matched Lebron's scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

3ba11

11-06-2021, 11:23 AM

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 11:50 AM

Tristan Thompson averaged 10 rebounds and Lebron 11 (shared load), while Kyrie matched Lebron's scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

https://i.postimg.cc/HxGgjFMj/The_ComebackKid.png

https://i.postimg.cc/VLzymXKB/q23y4-RX6033-XzwLQ-5549-B19-Jx32.png

https://i.postimg.cc/bwYhN9kb/LeFam_Happy_af.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/Fz8qCGF3/are_you_okay_bb.gif

sdot_thadon

11-06-2021, 04:19 PM

Tristan Thompson averaged 10 rebounds and Lebron 11 (shared load), while Kyrie matched Lebron's scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

And even if that's how you really feel, Mike never carried a team in the complete and comprehensive way Lebron has. Different guys, different games, different feathers in their caps.

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 04:23 PM

3ba11

11-06-2021, 04:29 PM

Matched? :oldlol: No.

And how about Pippen OUT PRODUCED MJ

https://i.postimg.cc/NM4CQ2TR/FB_IMG_1568775908493_(1).jpg

Your chart is inaccurate because MJ averaged more assists than Pippen in the Finals, playoffs and regular season, while also doubling his playoff scoring (goat carry-job)

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 04:32 PM

Your chart is inaccurate because MJ averaged more assists than Pippen in the Finals, playoffs and regular season, while also doubling his playoff scoring (goat carry-job)

Don't forget it

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

3ba11

11-06-2021, 04:45 PM

Don't forget it

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

^^^ those stats:

Jordan... 32.6 ppg... 5.4 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.78 bpg
Pippen... 19.0 ppg... 5.5 apg.. 2.1 spg.. 0.96 bpg

chefcurry

11-06-2021, 04:48 PM

he has so much help, will it really matter?

SaintzFury13

11-06-2021, 07:16 PM

Tristan Thompson averaged 10 rebounds and Lebron 11 (shared load), while Kyrie matched Lebron's scoring and steals (shared load), so only MJ carried the load by averaging way more than his teammates in the Finals (10-30 more than Pippen in every series of career, aka Jordan carried Pippen for entire career)

And yet Pippen averaged more rebounds and assists, therefor he shared the load with Pippen.

If you want to go entirely off of scoring, then your logic doesn't work here. I already proved LeBron carried the scoring load in 2012 and 2013. You don't get to change the number amount simply because you were proven wrong about it the moment you started using that logic.

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 07:24 PM

^^^ those stats:

Jordan... 32.6 ppg... 5.4 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.78 bpg
Pippen... 19.0 ppg... 5.5 apg.. 2.1 spg.. 0.96 bpg

So Pippen was the top producer? Thanks.

PS: You skipped rebounds? :oldlol: And only focused on shooting? I spotted an AI fan :oldlol:

3ba11

11-06-2021, 08:41 PM

So Pippen was the top producer? Thanks.

PS: You skipped rebounds? :oldlol: And only focused on shooting? I spotted an AI fan :oldlol:

During the title runs, Jordan matched Pippen's APG, while destroying him in assist percentage and nearly doubling his scoring

Btw, Pippen was never the rebounding leader, so it's irrelevant and also a positional stat.

And for Pippen's entire tenure alongside Jordan (88-98'), Jordan led every category including scoring, assists, steals, and blocks..

Pippen also never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series - Jordan led Pippen by 10-30 ppg in every series, while everyone else in history needed teammates to lead them for entire playoff runs (aka Wade led Lebron in Playoff scoring for the 2011 Playoffs, while AD led in 2020 and Kyrie matched Lebron's ppg in the 2016 Playoffs)

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 08:49 PM

During the title runs, Jordan matched Pippen's APG, while destroying him in assist percentage and nearly doubling his scoring

Btw, Pippen was never the rebounding leader, so it's irrelevant and also a positional stat.

And for Pippen's entire tenure alongside Jordan (88-98'), Jordan led every category including scoring, assists, steals, and blocks..

Pippen also never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series - Jordan led Pippen by 10-30 ppg in every series, while everyone else in history needed teammates to lead them for entire playoff runs (aka Wade led Lebron in Playoff scoring for the 2011 Playoffs, while AD led in 2020 and Kyrie matched Lebron's ppg in the 2016 Playoffs)

In Title Runs
Pip led MJ in RBS, AST, STL, BLK
Wade led LBJ in NOTHING

Next :dancin

3ba11

11-06-2021, 08:56 PM

In Title Runs
Pip led MJ in RBS, AST, STL, BLK
Wade led LBJ in NOTHING

Next :dancin

Jordan matched Pippen's assists and carried the scoring load, while Lebron never carried the Finals scoring load so he never carried a team in the Finals level - if you can't carry your team on the Finals level and always need a teammate to match your scoring, then you aren't anywhere near GOAT.

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 08:58 PM

In Title Runs
Pip led MJ in RBS, AST, STL, BLK
Wade led LBJ in NOTHING

Next :dancin

Is there an answer for this?

Is anyone going to answer me?

ELITEpower23

11-06-2021, 09:04 PM

You're showing that Jordan carried Pippen

Jordan led the Bulls in APG for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen, while doubling his scoring

I'll keep it simple for the small minds.

Leader In Title Runs
Pip led MJ in RBS, AST, STL, BLK
Wade/Kyrie led LBJ in NOTHING

Questions?

3ba11

11-06-2021, 09:05 PM

I'll keep it simple for the small minds.

Leader In Title Runs
Pip led MJ in RBS, AST, STL, BLK
Wade/Kyrie led LBJ in NOTHING

Questions?

.
Finals

Jordan... 33.6 ppg on 48%... 6.0 apg
Pippen... 19.0 ppg on 42%... 5.9 apg

Otoh, Kyrie matched Lebron's PPG and efficiency in the Finals - both average 28 on 47% (shared load)

SaintzFury13

11-06-2021, 09:46 PM

During the title runs, Jordan matched Pippen's APG, while destroying him in assist percentage and nearly doubling his scoring

Btw, Pippen was never the rebounding leader, so it's irrelevant and also a positional stat.

And for Pippen's entire tenure alongside Jordan (88-98'), Jordan led every category including scoring, assists, steals, and blocks..

Pippen also never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series - Jordan led Pippen by 10-30 ppg in every series, while everyone else in history needed teammates to lead them for entire playoff runs (aka Wade led Lebron in Playoff scoring for the 2011 Playoffs, while AD led in 2020 and Kyrie matched Lebron's ppg in the 2016 Playoffs)

Okay, now discuss 2012 and 2013 where, going by YOUR OWN LOGIC, LeBron carried the load in scoring and won championships both times.

3ba11

11-06-2021, 10:27 PM

Okay, now discuss 2012 and 2013 where, going by YOUR OWN LOGIC, LeBron carried the load in scoring and won championships both times.

Not on the Finals level - Lebron only averaged 5-6 more than Wade, who outscored the opposing top scorer in 2013, and Lebron also had a 3rd star scorer to rely on in Bosh... So Lebron always needed 2 stars like Wade/Bosh or Love/Kyrie, or a star like AD to outproduce him.

He never carried the scoring load because he's a shit scorer... For Lebron to score a lot of points, the entire game must slow to a crawl and the ball must be in Lebron's hands excessively - it's garbage scoring skill and that's why he can't win with high scoring - it's either too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15')... Since he can't win with high scoring, he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick and nearly match his scoring, or exceed it like the 2011 and 2020 Playoffs.

3ba11

11-06-2021, 10:33 PM

.
Finals

Jordan... 33.6 ppg on 48%... 6.0 apg
Pippen... 19.0 ppg on 42%... 5.9 apg

Otoh, Kyrie matched Lebron's PPG and efficiency in the Finals - both average 28 on 47% (shared load)

no one

https://i.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.webp

SaintzFury13

11-06-2021, 11:50 PM

Not on the Finals level - Lebron only averaged 5-6 more than Wade, who outscored the opposing top scorer in 2013

Does not matter. You started this entire thing by stating that LeBron never averaged 5 or more points than his second best scorer as proof that he couldn't be an offensive anchor on a finals winning team. That was your logic. It was proven wrong, and thus you tried changing the number. You don't get to do that.

And in case you want to try to claim I'm lying again...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496694-HISTORICAL-RECORD-Lebron-needed-the-most-offensive-help-in-history-yet/page2&p=14415784#post14415784

https://i.ibb.co/FYdCqQL/Lol-what-an-idiot.png

So, going by YOUR logic, LeBron can in fact be the anchor of an offense because he did it twice, rendering this entire thread and your entire point mute because now you're attempting to switch the numbers up after your original claim was proven false.

I suggest next time, you stop trying to lie your way out of something. It's very easy to find your previous posts and prove what you say wrong.

RRR3

11-06-2021, 11:58 PM

Does not matter. You started this entire thing by stating that LeBron never averaged 5 or more points than his second best scorer as proof that he couldn't be an offensive anchor on a finals winning team. That was your logic. It was proven wrong, and thus you tried changing the number. You don't get to do that.

And in case you want to try to claim I'm lying again...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496694-HISTORICAL-RECORD-Lebron-needed-the-most-offensive-help-in-history-yet/page2&p=14415784#post14415784

https://i.ibb.co/FYdCqQL/Lol-what-an-idiot.png

So, going by YOUR logic, LeBron can in fact be the anchor of an offense because he did it twice, rendering this entire thread and your entire point mute because now you're attempting to switch the numbers up after your original claim was proven false.

I suggest next time, you stop trying to lie your way out of something. It's very easy to find your previous posts and prove what you say wrong.
Prepare for the goalposts to be moved again. He’s a pathological psychotic liar who can’t admit when he’s wrong.

3ba11

11-07-2021, 11:46 AM

Does not matter. You started this entire thing by stating that LeBron never averaged 5 or more points than his second best scorer as proof that he couldn't be an offensive anchor on a finals winning team. That was your logic. It was proven wrong, and thus you tried changing the number. You don't get to do that.

And in case you want to try to claim I'm lying again...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496694-HISTORICAL-RECORD-Lebron-needed-the-most-offensive-help-in-history-yet/page2&p=14415784#post14415784

https://i.ibb.co/FYdCqQL/Lol-what-an-idiot.png

So, going by YOUR logic, LeBron can in fact be the anchor of an offense because he did it twice, rendering this entire thread and your entire point mute because now you're attempting to switch the numbers up after your original claim was proven false.

I suggest next time, you stop trying to lie your way out of something. It's very easy to find your previous posts and prove what you say wrong.

2-6 more than a teammate in the Finals isn't carrying the load and doesn't compare to Jordan averaging 10-20 more than Pippen - so Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Finals and never beat a good team with teammates playing poorly (no carry-jobs in 2 decades of playing)

Those are the facts

8Ball

11-07-2021, 01:40 PM

Matched? :oldlol: No.

And how about Pippen OUT PRODUCED MJ

https://i.postimg.cc/NM4CQ2TR/FB_IMG_1568775908493_(1).jpg

Thread cliffs.

LeBron does everything.

3ba11

11-07-2021, 01:50 PM

Thread cliffs.

LeBron does everything.

^^^ the chart is wrong because Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen in the Finals, Playoffs and regular season, while doubling his scoring (carry-job)

so only Jordan had carry-jobs because only he out-produced his sidekick by so much .. :confusedshrug:

SaintzFury13

11-07-2021, 04:23 PM

2-6 more than a teammate in the Finals isn't carrying the load and doesn't compare to Jordan averaging 10-20 more than Pippen - so Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Finals and never beat a good team with teammates playing poorly (no carry-jobs in 2 decades of playing)

Those are the facts

Yes, it is. Again, these are going off of your own words, not mine. If you're never wrong like you pretend you aren't, then these are the facts.

Fact: You stated that all LeBron needed to do was average 5 or more points than his second leading scorer to qualify as having carried the scoring load and win the finals. He did that twice. And one of those times was in a seven game series, something Jordan never did.

Therefor, LeBron has done it before. You have no argument here. Next time, admit to being wrong to something rather than trying to switch up the numbers once you get proven wrong.

3ba11

11-07-2021, 04:52 PM

Yes, it is. Again, these are going off of your own words, not mine. If you're never wrong like you pretend you aren't, then these are the facts.

Fact: You stated that all LeBron needed to do was average 5 or more points than his second leading scorer to qualify as having carried the scoring load and win the finals. He did that twice. And one of those times was in a seven game series, something Jordan never did.

Therefor, LeBron has done it before. You have no argument here. Next time, admit to being wrong to something rather than trying to switch up the numbers once you get proven wrong.

2-6 points isn't carrying and doesn't compare to 10-20 for Jordan.

you splitting hairs over 1 point makes my point, not yours

SaintzFury13

11-07-2021, 06:21 PM

2-6 points isn't carrying and doesn't compare to 10-20 for Jordan.

you splitting hairs over 1 point makes my point, not yours

We are not talking about Jordan. We are talking about LeBron. It not comparing to what Jordan did doesn't invalidate what LeBron did, which, going by your own words, was carry the scoring load in a finals winning series.

It's not splitting hairs. You outright stated something to try to prove a point. You were proven wrong. And thus you changed your numbers up and hoped no one would notice. If you aren't going to admit to your own lies and flaws, then I am going to continue to point them out until you acknowledge them.

3ba11

11-07-2021, 06:28 PM

We are not talking about Jordan. We are talking about LeBron. It not comparing to what Jordan did doesn't invalidate what LeBron did, which, going by your own words, was carry the scoring load in a finals winning series.

It's not splitting hairs. You outright stated something to try to prove a point. You were proven wrong. And thus you changed your numbers up and hoped no one would notice. If you aren't going to admit to your own lies and flaws, then I am going to continue to point them out until you acknowledge them.

The point was that lebron's margin above his sidekick in the Finals has never been carry-job level, whether it was 2-6 points or the 2-5 that I thought it was.

The 2-6 or 2-5 amounts don't change the point being made - it's a small amount and closer to a shared load (equal amounts) not a carry-job (vastly different amounts).

RRR3

11-07-2021, 06:36 PM

The point was that lebron's margin above his sidekick in the Finals has never been carry-job level, whether it was 2-6 points or the 2-5 that I thought it was.

The 2-6 or 2-5 amounts don't change the point being made - it's a small amount and closer to a shared load (equal amounts) not a carry-job (vastly different amounts).
Why are you a pathological liar?

FireDavidKahn

11-07-2021, 09:40 PM

OP destroyed with one picture.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6407/1ed4fa47d9e70440976b3414cf8baad1631de138_hq.jpg

Axe

11-07-2021, 09:45 PM

Too much obsession is bad for your health, op.

Axe

11-07-2021, 10:05 PM

That was in reference to 3bot my man. You actually exhibit human, non robotic qualities and behavior lol.
Oh i see. Sorry rofl.

3ba11

11-07-2021, 11:44 PM

OP destroyed with one picture.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6407/1ed4fa47d9e70440976b3414cf8baad1631de138_hq.jpg

^^^ needed equal-scoring partner, so he never carried the load by averaging far more than everyone like MJ

Axe

11-07-2021, 11:46 PM

^^^ needed equal-scoring partner, so he never carried the load by averaging far more than everyone like MJ
While pippen led the 94 bulls to the playoffs without their first option.

Hey Yo

11-07-2021, 11:50 PM

^^^ needed equal-scoring partner, so he never carried the load by averaging far more than everyone like MJ

Rodman didn't carry the load either but still took FMVP voteS from MJ while avg. 7ppg

3ba11

11-07-2021, 11:54 PM

While pippen led the 94 bulls to the playoffs without their first option.

A perfectly-run triangle and a chip on their shoulder (3-peat swagger and know-how) won 55 but got destroyed in the playoffs.. (3-peat to 2nd Round losers)

After the 3-peat luster was gone in 95', they were borderline lottery until MJ returned. That was their true state without the 3-peat luster and unique situation they had in 94'

Axe

11-07-2021, 11:56 PM

Rodman didn't carry the load either but still took FMVP voteS from MJ while avg. 7ppg
It's like saying that ad should be handed the finals mvp for contributing so well in the 2020 disney bubble.

Axe

11-07-2021, 11:56 PM

A perfectly-run triangle and a chip on their shoulder (3-peat swagger and know-how) won 55 but got destroyed in the playoffs.. (3-peat to 2nd Round losers)

After the 3-peat luster was gone in 95', they were borderline lottery until MJ returned. That was their true state without the 3-peat luster and unique situation they had in 94'
Mj and your true hero kobe never won anything without the triangle.

SaintzFury13

11-08-2021, 07:15 AM

The point was that lebron's margin above his sidekick in the Finals has never been carry-job level, whether it was 2-6 points or the 2-5 that I thought it was.

The 2-6 or 2-5 amounts don't change the point being made

Yes it does. The point here is that the only reason you made the amount 10 in the first place is because your original logic required only five, which you foolishly thought LeBron never did. The fact that you did this kills the entire point of this thread. It doesn't feel genuine at all and it's the literal definition of moving goal posts. It invalidates everything you are trying to do because it comes off as desperation on your part to try to save face. It's pathetic.

FireDavidKahn

11-08-2021, 07:14 PM

Another year, another carry job

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDtAyygUcAAcUIQ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

3ba11

01-19-2022, 01:50 AM

.
ONLY MJ LED IN PPG FOR EVERY SERIES (15.4 AVG MARGIN OVER 2ND OPTION)

..................PPG for #1 scorer..... PPG for #2 scorer...... Difference

1985 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1985-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-bucks.html):...... Jordan 29.3............... Woolrige 20.5.................. 8.8

1986 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html):...... Jordan 43.7............... Woolrige 21.0................ 22.7

1987 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1987-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html):...... Jordan 35.7............... C Oakley 20.0................ 15.7

1988 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 45.2............... C Oakley 10.8................ 34.4
1988 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 27.4............... C Oakley 12.8................ 14.6

1989 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html):...... Jordan 39.8............... S Pippen 15.0................ 25.0
1989 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-knicks.html):...... Jordan 35.7............... S Pippen 14.8................ 20.9
1989 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 29.7............... C Hodges 12.0............... 17.7

1990 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bucks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.8............... S Pippen 22.5................ 14.3
1990 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-76ers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 43.0............... S Pippen 20.8................ 22.2
1990 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 32.1............... S Pippen 16.6................ 15.5

1991 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.0............... S Pippen 19.7................ 9.3
1991 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-76ers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 33.4............... S Pippen 23.4................ 10.0
1991 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pistons-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.8............... S Pippen 22.0................ 7.8
1991 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-finals-lakers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.2............... S Pippen 20.8................ 10.4

1992 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 45.0............... S Pippen 24.0.............. 21.0
1992 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.3............... S Pippen 16.0.............. 15.3
1992 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-finals-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.7............... S Pippen 19.8.............. 11.9
1992 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-finals-trail-blazers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 35.8............... S Pippen 20.8.............. 15.0

1993 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-hawks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 34.3............... S Pippen 15.3.............. 19.0
1993 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 18.3.............. 12.7
1993 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-knicks.html):...... Jordan 32.2............... S Pippen 22.5.............. 9.8
1993 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-finals-bulls-vs-suns.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 21.2.............. 19.8

1995 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-hornets.html):...... Jordan 32.3............... T Kukocs 17.3.............. 15.0
1995 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-magic.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 19.0.............. 12.0

1996 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.0............... S Pippen 15.6.............. 20.4
1996 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.5............... S Pippen 18.5.............. 11.0
1996 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-finals-supersonics-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 27.3............... S Pippen 15.7.............. 11.6

1997 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bullets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 37.3............... S Pippen 16.7.............. 20.6
1997 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 26.6............... S Pippen 22.2.............. 4.4
1997 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-finals-heat-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 30.2............... S Pippen 16.8.............. 17.4
1997 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-finals-jazz-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 32.3............... S Pippen 20.0.............. 12.3

1998 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-nets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.3............... S Pippen 18.0.............. 18.3
1998 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hornets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.6............... S Pippen 17.8.............. 11.8
1998 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pacers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.7............... S Pippen 16.6.............. 15.1
1998 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-finals-bulls-vs-jazz.html):...... Jordan 33.5............... S Pippen 15.7.............. 17.8
.................................................. ............................................______
.................................................. ........................15.4 average difference

Everyone in history needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for numerous playoff runs and Finals, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always faced maximum defensive attention by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

3ba11

01-19-2022, 01:50 AM

Yes it does. The point here is that the only reason you made the amount 10 in the first place is because your original logic required only five, which you foolishly thought LeBron never did. The fact that you did this kills the entire point of this thread. It doesn't feel genuine at all and it's the literal definition of moving goal posts. It invalidates everything you are trying to do because it comes off as desperation on your part to try to save face. It's pathetic.

PLAYOFF PPG

86' Bird......... 25.1
86' McHale..... 24.9

87' Worthy..... 23.6
87' Magic....... 21.1

11' Wade....... 24.5
11' Lebron..... 23.7

16' Kyrie'....... 25.2
16' Lebron..... 26.2

20' AD'.......... 27.7
20' Lebron..... 27.6

Everyone in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs and Finals, so they didn't face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to MJ, who always overcame maximum defensive attention/burden by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

MJ had a 15.4 average margin over 2nd option in every series - see the previous post above.. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only guy that always faced max defensive attention here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

TheCorporation

01-19-2022, 03:20 AM

Nb1

01-19-2022, 05:30 AM

It’s amazing how Lebron won with 3 different teams and different team mates. Shows he’s by far the best player who ever lived. Other guys like Jordan couldn’t do it and got trashed as soon as they didnt play in their system.