Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #38

[dankok8]

List

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - Oscar Robertson
#14 - Jerry West
#15 - Moses Malone
#16 - Julius Erving
#17 - Kevin Durant
#18 - Kevin Garnett
#19 - Karl Malone
#20 - Dirk Nowitzki
#21 - Charles Barkley
#22 - David Robinson
#23 - Dwyane Wade
#24 - Elgin Baylor
#25 - Scottie Pippen
#26 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
#27 - John Havlicek
#28 - Isiah Thomas
#29 - Bob Pettit
#30 - Chris Paul
#31 - Kawhi Leonard
#32 - Rick Barry
#33 - James Harden
#34 - Patrick Ewing
#35 - Bob Cousy
#36 - John Stockton
#37 - Jason Kidd
#38 - VOTING NOW

Top 50 Player Pool

For an updated player pool and vote breakdowns see the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing).

Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.

Opening Vote Tally

Steve Nash - 6 (1987_Lakers, dankok8, Airupthere, RRR3, Manny98, colts19)
Willis Reed - 1 (jlip)
Kevin McHale - 1 (Round Mound)

[dankok8]

Still going for Nash here and probably Elvin Hayes next.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Give me time to research here. I am not sold on Nash, D'Antoni made Jeremy Lin look like an NBA superstar at stages

[gonzaldo]

Allen Iverson, there are plenty of pros and cons but he was one of the faces of the league for a while and a place around №40 is well deserved

[Nike D'Antoni]

Allen Iverson, there are plenty of pros and cons but he was one of the faces of the league for a while and a place around №40 is well deserved

Hmm. I am voting Allen Iverson for now.

[Reggie43]

Drexler

[fsvr54]

Mitch Richmond should at least be 50th. Talent wise

[L.Kizzle]

Willis Reed

[Phoenix]

This board is going to have Iverson in the mid 40s :facepalm

Allen Iverson FFS.

[francesco totti]

Voting Iverson. Where is GOBB for this one?

[LBJ]

Not a fan of either, both zero defense.
Just don't know what to vote anymore. But I'll go with voting Iverson, he was more of a superstar, and Kobe vs AI was a debate at that time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nash

[RRR3]

This board is going to have Iverson in the mid 40s :facepalm

Allen Iverson FFS.
He’s overrated.

[RRR3]

Mitch Richmond should at least be 50th. Talent wise
:roll:

[Nike D'Antoni]

Steve Nash - 7 (1987_Lakers, dankok8, Airupthere, RRR3, Manny98, colts19, SouBeachTalents)
Iverson - 4 (Gonzaldo, Nike D'Antoni, francesco totti, LBJ)
Willis Reed - 2 (jlip,L.Kizzle)
Kevin McHale - 1 (Round Mound)
Drexler - 1 ( Reggie43)
Richmond - 1 (fsvr54)???????

[TheCorporation]

Willis Reed

[Lebron_James]

I want to vote for Dennis Rodman, who was selected by NBA Top 75 player all time. But since that hurts MJ, no one will be voting for him.
I vote for Iverson.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Steve Nash - 7 (1987_Lakers, dankok8, Airupthere, RRR3, Manny98, colts19, SouBeachTalents)
Iverson - 5 (Gonzaldo, Nike D'Antoni, francesco totti, LBJ, Lebron_James)
Willis Reed - 3 (jlip,L.Kizzle, TheCorporation)
Kevin McHale - 1 (Round Mound)
Drexler - 1 ( Reggie43)
Richmond - 1 (fsvr54)???????

I might switch to Reed. because I feel we are voting too many point guards in. I'll see.

[Phoenix]

Steve Nash - 7 (1987_Lakers, dankok8, Airupthere, RRR3, Manny98, colts19, SouBeachTalents)
Iverson - 5 (Gonzaldo, Nike D'Antoni, francesco totti, LBJ, Lebron_James)
Willis Reed - 3 (jlip,L.Kizzle, TheCorporation)
Kevin McHale - 1 (Round Mound)
Drexler - 1 ( Reggie43)
Richmond - 1 (fsvr54)???????

I might switch to Reed. because I feel we are voting too many point guards in. I'll see.

You missed my vote for Iverson in post #9.

[Phoenix]

He’s overrated.

If he had been voted in 8 spots ago, probably. Somewhere in the 40th range? I don't think so.

[ELITEpower23]

Steve Nash

[Phoenix]

Nash 8, Iverson 6

[Nike D'Antoni]

You missed my vote for Iverson in post #9.

Apologize.

[000]

Russell Westbrook. 1x MVP, 9x allstar/allnba, 2x allstar MVP, 5x stat titles

[Nike D'Antoni]

I am more convinced with AI now, after my research.

2005 All-star voting AI got 1.5 million votes, more than Wade in 2005. Nash got only 1.1 million votes. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2005_voting.html
2006 Iverson gets 2 million votes, more than Wade again. Nash gets 1.8 million only. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2006_voting.html
2007 Iverson gets 1.8 million votes, Nash 1.5 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2007_voting.html
2008 Iverson gets 1.2 million votes, Nash 1.1 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2008_voting.html


So even in NASH MVP years, people preferred AI. Heck, in 2005 & 2006 they preferred AI over Wade too. Pre-2005, it's pretty much AI too.

With my research, I got to this oldie thread lol http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?275781-Dwyane-Wade-vs-Allen-Iverson

[L.Kizzle]

I am more convinced with AI now, after my research.

2005 All-star voting AI got 1.5 million votes, more than Wade in 2005. Nash got only 1.1 million votes. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2005_voting.html
2006 Iverson gets 2 million votes, more than Wade again. Nash gets 1.8 million only. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2006_voting.html
2007 Iverson gets 1.8 million votes, Nash 1.5 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2007_voting.html
2008 Iverson gets 1.2 million votes, Nash 1.1 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2008_voting.html


So even in NASH MVP years, people preferred AI. Heck, in 2005 & 2006 they preferred AI over Wade too. Pre-2005, it's pretty much AI too.

With my research, I got to this oldie thread lol http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?275781-Dwyane-Wade-vs-Allen-Iverson
McGrady and Vince Carter were getting more votes than Nash as well. Probably Gilbert Arenas too.

[Nike D'Antoni]

McGrady and Vince Carter were getting more votes than Nash as well. Probably Gilbert Arenas too.

yeh. I guess we overrate Nash due to just 2 League MVPs, which most people at that time think it's undeserved.

[1987_Lakers]

I am more convinced with AI now, after my research.

2005 All-star voting AI got 1.5 million votes, more than Wade in 2005. Nash got only 1.1 million votes. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2005_voting.html
2006 Iverson gets 2 million votes, more than Wade again. Nash gets 1.8 million only. https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2006_voting.html
2007 Iverson gets 1.8 million votes, Nash 1.5 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2007_voting.html
2008 Iverson gets 1.2 million votes, Nash 1.1 million. ( Nash backup to AI) https://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2008_voting.html


So even in NASH MVP years, people preferred AI. Heck, in 2005 & 2006 they preferred AI over Wade too. Pre-2005, it's pretty much AI too.

With my research, I got to this oldie thread lol http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?275781-Dwyane-Wade-vs-Allen-Iverson

My God, to judge players based off all-star votes, lmfao. This post is a prime example why ISH will always be looked at as inferior to realgm.

[Phoenix]

Lol, I wouldn't put any stock in all-star voting. Yes, Iverson at his peak was always one of the most popular stars in the league.

In general, because of 'advanced' stats I think he's starting to become a bit underrated. This guy won an MVP, a little man in a big man's league, with peak Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Webber, etc etc. And guys like Kobe, Tmac and Vince established as superstars. Yeah he's got cracks in his armour but frankly everyone does at this point, hence why he's not ranked higher.

[Nike D'Antoni]

My God, to judge players based off all-star votes, lmfao. This post is a prime example why ISH will always be looked at as inferior to realgm.

I am doing research on what people thought at that time between Nash & AI, and most people's choice I see is AI. Not just all-star votes.
I got in my research, a lot of people mentioning Nash never deserved league MVP.

[Nike D'Antoni]

In 2005, Shaq took Miami Heat from a 42 win team to a 59 win team, should have been MVP.
In 2006, Kobe scored crazily including an 81 point game. He should have been MVP.

Those arguments on my research, why nash never deserved MVP.

[1987_Lakers]

I am doing research on what people thought at that time between Nash & AI, and most people's choice I see is AI. Not just all-star votes.
I got in my research, a lot of people mentioning Nash never deserved league MVP.

Based off the all-star votes you posted people also thought Yao Ming was a better player than KG & Duncan. LOL.

[1987_Lakers]

In 2005, Shaq took Miami Heat from a 42 win team to a 59 win team, should have been MVP.
In 2006, Kobe scored crazily including an 81 point game. He should have been MVP.

Those arguments on my research, why nash never deserved MVP.

And Nash took a Suns team from 29 wins to 62 wins. How is that your argument for Shaq being MVP?

And players on mediocre teams rarely win MVPs (2006 Kobe)

[Nike D'Antoni]

Based off the all-star votes you posted people also thought Yao Ming was a better player than KG & Duncan. LOL.

Again, it's not all-star votes lol. Why are you picking on that one?
It's the total research am conducting to know what to vote. Based on my research T-mac and Yao got a lot of Chinese votes, that overrated them.



Why don't you answer this below? Because saw this argument a lot of places.

In 2005, Shaq took Miami Heat from a 42 win team to a 59 win team, should have been MVP.
In 2006, Kobe scored crazily including an 81 point game. He should have been MVP.

[1987_Lakers]

Why don't you answer this below? Because saw this argument a lot of places.

In 2005, Shaq took Miami Heat from a 42 win team to a 59 win team, should have been MVP.
In 2006, Kobe scored crazily including an 81 point game. He should have been MVP.

I just did.

[Nike D'Antoni]

And Nash took a Suns team from 29 wins to 62 wins. How is that your argument for Shaq being MVP?

And players on mediocre teams rarely win MVPs (2006 Kobe)

Suns' success in many places I see more credited to D'Antoni than Nash. And many places I saw, mentions that Nash without D'Antoni has done nothing.

[1987_Lakers]

Suns' success in many places I see more credited to D'Antoni than Nash. And many places I saw, mentions that Nash without D'Antoni has done nothing.

Suns in 2004 with D'Antoni were 21-40, try again. And Nash in 2010 led the Suns to the WCF without him.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Suns in 2004 with D'Antoni were 21-40, try again. And Nash in 2010 led the Suns to the WCF without him.

And what was Nash pre D'Antoni and post D'Antoni? Never considered an elite player.
Do you think Jeremy Lin also changed the Knicks? And was some superstar?

[Nike D'Antoni]

Suns in 2004 with D'Antoni were 21-40, try again. And Nash in 2010 led the Suns to the WCF without him.

After sacking Terry Porter, and getting D'Antoni assistant Gentry to revert to D'Antoni basketball.

[1987_Lakers]

And what was Nash pre D'Antoni and post D'Antoni? Never considered an elite player.
Do you think Jeremy Lin also changed the Knicks? And was some superstar?

Nash was All-Star level before him and was the best point guard in the NBA without him in 2010.

[1987_Lakers]

After sacking Terry Porter, and getting D'Antoni assistant Gentry to revert to D'Antoni basketball.

Moving the goal posts I see.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Nash was All-Star level before him and was the best point guard in the NBA without him in 2010.

I think 2010 Deron Williams & CP3 were considered better.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Do you also rate Jeremy Lin?

[1987_Lakers]

I think 2010 Deron Williams & CP3 were considered better.

Nope, Nash finished with more MVP votes than both CP3 & D-Will and he led his team deeper into the playoffs.

[1987_Lakers]

It's the total research am conducting to know what to vote. Based on my research T-mac and Yao got a lot of Chinese votes, that overrated them.


How do you explain Carmelo getting more All-star votes than Dirk in 2007? The same year Dirk won MVP. China? :oldlol:

[Nike D'Antoni]

How do you explain Carmelo getting more All-star votes than Dirk in 2007? The same year Dirk won MVP. China? :oldlol:

Stop reverting to all-star voting, when you can't answer the other arguments.

I find it wrong, Nash was not rated highly during his play days by fans and was considered the worst league MVP ever at that time. Now is rated higher, I think we should remember what was happening during his play days and what he was considered ( worst league MVP ever).

[Thenameless]

This one is very close for me between Iverson and Nash.

What I like about Iverson. Fearless. Scoring machine, being a 4 time NBA scoring champ - this is really impressive considering his size and how much basketball was still considered a big man's game in his time. An indomitable will. I love that he was also three times the NBA steals leader; steals require not just quickness and athleticism, but also an ability to read the play and anticipate. And then he plays a lot - I didn't know that he led the league 8 times in minutes played per game. I believe he has more upside than Nash.

What I like about Nash. Cerebral. A lot more athletic than people realize - this guy is also very good at soccer and hockey outside of basketball. Makes teammates much better because of his playmaking - 5/6 times NBA assist leader depending on how you count. The cherry on top, when he decides not to pass he's a 50/40/90 deadeye of a shot.

If your team is a basement dweller, and badly needs a franchise player, then you should draft Iverson. He makes an immediate impact as evidenced by his winning of the NBA Rookie of the Year.

If your team is already a decent playoff contender, then Nash is the better and safer bet. He'll feed your scorers and keep them happy, which is great for team chemistry. The other major consideration is that he doesn't bring the harsh downside that Iverson does which can at times be poisonous to a team.

It really comes down to Iverson being more dominant individually, and Nash being a far superior team player overall. I really can't decide between the two. No vote for me this round.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Nope, Nash finished with more MVP votes than both CP3 & D-Will and he led his team deeper into the playoffs.

League MVP voting isn't all that something to go by either. As I mentioned Nash won 2 league MVP, that at that time fans disagreed with the choice. And majority even with those MVPs rated other players higher than him.

[Nike D'Antoni]

This one is very close for me between Iverson and Nash.

What I like about Iverson. Fearless. Scoring machine, being a 4 time NBA scoring champ - this is really impressive considering his size and how much basketball was still considered a big man's game in his time. An indomitable will. I love that he was also three times the NBA steals leader; steals require not just quickness and athleticism, but also an ability to read the play and anticipate. And then he plays a lot - I didn't know that he led the league 8 times in minutes played per game. I believe he has more upside than Nash.

What I like about Nash. Cerebral. A lot more athletic than people realize - this guy is also very good at soccer and hockey outside of basketball. Makes teammates much better because of his playmaking - 5/6 times NBA assist leader depending on how you count. The cherry on top, when he decides not to pass he's a 50/40/90 deadeye of a shot.

If your team is a basement dweller, and badly needs a franchise player, then you should draft Iverson. He makes an immediate impact as evidenced by his winning of the NBA Rookie of the Year.

If your team is already a decent playoff contender, then Nash is the better and safer bet. He'll feed your scorers and keep them happy, which is great for team chemistry. The other major consideration is that he doesn't bring the harsh downside that Iverson does which can at times be poisonous to a team.

It really comes down to Iverson being more dominant individually, and Nash being a far superior team player overall. I really can't decide between the two. No vote for me this round.


I read this somewhere, did you copy & paste? Or maybe something close.

[1987_Lakers]

Stop reverting to all-star voting, when you can't answer the other arguments.

I find it wrong, Nash was not rated highly during his play days by fans and was considered the worst league MVP ever at that time. Now is rated higher, I think we should remember what was happening during his play days and what he was considered ( worst league MVP ever).

Why would I do that? You were the one who brought it up. If you really think Nash is nothing more than a product of D'Antoni than you really know nothing about basketball, that myth got busted over a decade ago.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Why would I do that? You were the one who brought it up. If you really think Nash is nothing more than a product of D'Antoni than you really know nothing about basketball, that myth got busted over a decade ago.

"Myth that got busted", at least thank you for admitting that it at least existed at that time. Because that's what I am bringing up here, what was discussed at that time to make choice

[Nike D'Antoni]

And this got me thinking, after 20 years people will rank players from today different than what we rank them today.

Some will go higher, some lower.

[1987_Lakers]

"Myth that got busted", at least thank you for admitting that it at least existed at that time. Because that's what I am bringing up here, what was discussed at that time to make choice

Sure it existed, I'll admit I was one of those guys who thought Nash was just a good player who was playing superstar level due to the system, but what Nash did after D'Antoni was gone made me realize that he is just a phenomenal player.

Iverson had superior talent over Nash, but in a team game he could only dream of transforming a team like Nash did. I'll never forget how the Nuggets got better as a team once they swapped Iverson for Billups.

[Honor Boost]

W. Reed

[Honor Boost]

Russell Westbrook. 1x MVP, 9x allstar/allnba, 2x allstar MVP, 5x stat titles

No rings, he will go top 50 area

[dankok8]

Nash in 2005 was the clear cut MVP. There is no argument about it. He improved the Suns by way more than Shaq improved the Heat. A lot of Miami's improvement of 17 wins was also due to the the growth of Wade who was only a rookie in 2004 and pretty much in his prime in 2005.

In 2006, one could go for Kobe and it wouldn't be a bad choice. Kobe led a terrible cast to 45 wins and put up amazing numbers. However Nash led the Suns without Amare to 54 wins. Nash also missed 3 games that year and his team went 0-3 so with him in the lineup they were playing at a 56-win pace. So Nash at least has a really good case in 2006.

[000]

No rings, he will go top 50 area

Malone made the top 20:biggums:

[Nike D'Antoni]

whoever makes out of AI or Nash, I am voting W. Reed next. I think this is becoming too much PG dominant voting lately.

[TheCorporation]

Who the hell left has a resume better than Willis Reed?

2x FMVP
1x MVP
7x All star

Everyone with 2 FMVPs has already been voted in except for Willis Reed. Travesty if a zero FMVP winning bum makes it in before him.

Reed's 1970 ring had him beating the Lakers that were stacked with West, Baylor, and Wilt. His 1973 ring he beat the Lakers again that were stacked with West, Goodrich, and older Wilt.

[SouBeachTalents]

Who the hell left has a resume better than Willis Reed?

2x FMVP
1x MVP
7x All star

Everyone with 2 FMVPs has already been voted in except for Willis Reed. Travesty if a zero FMVP winning bum makes it in before him.
In fairness though Reed averaged 13 ppg in the playoffs for his 2nd FMVP and was the Knicks FIFTH leading scorer. That FMVP was more a case of somebody having to win it than him standing out or having some notably good series. I don't even know if that FMVP was more impressive than Kawhi's 2014.

[1987_Lakers]

I'll vote Walt Frazier before I vote in Reed.

[L.Kizzle]

I'll vote Walt Frazier before I vote in Reed.
Why? Who was the more important players on those Knicks squads, Clyde or Willis?
Isn't it almost saying Sam Jones or Havlicek was more important than Russell?

[1987_Lakers]

Why? Who was the more important players on those Knicks squads, Clyde or Willis?
Isn't it almost saying Sam Jones or Havlicek was more important than Russell?
Frazier was CLEARLY the best player on that Knicks team in '73, Reed was better in '70, but Frazier who the one who put up a historic game 7 in the Finals while Reed was just limping around.

Frazier's longevity is better, & at the time was considered the greatest defensive guard ever.

[1987_Lakers]

To be honest Frazier probably would have been voted in already if he was a more recent player, I don't think I've heard his name get mentioned once in this project.

[L.Kizzle]

Frazier was CLEARLY the best player on that Knicks team in '73, Reed was better in '70, but Frazier who the one who put up a historic game 7 in the Finals while Reed was just limping around.

Frazier's longevity is better, & at the time was considered the greatest defensive guard ever.
Willis was done after 71, and they have about the same accomplishments tho Walt has more all defensive teams. Reed had the misfortune of playing in a league with Russell and Wilt.
Walt played as Oscar was winding down. And was the best NBA guard the first half of the 70s along with West.

[1987_Lakers]

Willis was done after 71, and they have about the same accomplishments tho Walt has more all defensive teams. Reed had the misfortune of playing in a league with Russell and Wilt.
Walt played as Oscar was winding down. And was the best NBA guard the first half of the 70s along with West.

Idk, I see Reed as kind of one-dimensional, a skilled scorer who couldn't create for others and his defense wasn't as good as the other elite centers in his era.

Although peak wise they seemed to give you similar value, Walt was the more well rounded player with better longevity.

[L.Kizzle]

Idk, I see Reed as kind of one-dimensional, a skilled scorer who couldn't create for others and his defense wasn't as good as the other elite centers in his era.

Although peak wise they seemed to give you similar value, Walt was the more well rounded player with the edge in longevity.
He made All Defensive 1st team so idk.
How do you feel about Reed vs Cowens vs Unseld?

[1987_Lakers]

He made All Defensive 1st team so idk.
How do you feel about Reed vs Cowens vs Unseld?

Yea, but so did Moses and Shaq and they were not known as defenders, and I'm sure Reed wasn't the rim protector Shaq was.

Out of Reed, Cowens, & Unseld I believe Reed was the better player at their peaks. I'll admit, I don't know too much about those players, but from what I hear about Cowens is that he was a very good passing big man, but overall wasn't a very skilled scorer and although he made a few defensive teams, his defense wasn't too amazing. I know Unseld was always regarded as one of the best outlet passers ever, but still shocked to see he won MVP as a rookie, he wasn't "great" on any ends of the floor, tremendous rebounder though.

1. Reed
2. Cowens
3. Unseld

[Thenameless]

I read this somewhere, did you copy & paste? Or maybe something close.

Wrote it myself, while looking up the careers of both players. And of course remembering what I saw of both. Iverson definitely the more mercurial of the two players. Bigger upside with the bigger downside as well. Takes the 76ers to the Finals......Practice.....man.....we talking about practice.

[Phoenix]

Anybody else plan on voting anytime soon? :confusedshrug:

[dankok8]

In fairness though Reed averaged 13 ppg in the playoffs for his 2nd FMVP and was the Knicks FIFTH leading scorer. That FMVP was more a case of somebody having to win it than him standing out or having some notably good series. I don't even know if that FMVP was more impressive than Kawhi's 2014.

One can argue Frazier got robbed out of both 1970 and 1973 Finals MVP's. That makes me lower on Reed plus Willis really had terrible longevity. Like almost Bill Walton level.

I was going to mention Frazier as a candidate in prior threads. He definitely should be mentioned.

[L.Kizzle]

One can argue Frazier got robbed out of both 1970 and 1973 Finals MVP's. That makes me lower on Reed plus Willis really had terrible longevity. Like almost Bill Walton level.

I was going to mention Frazier as a candidate in prior threads. He definitely should be mentioned.
Maybe 73 but 70 was definitely Willis Reed year.
One has to wonder how the Knicks perform if Reed doesn't walk out the back onto the court in game 7.
The Lakers probably have the momentum and not the Knicks.
That changed the whole outlook on both teams.

[dankok8]

Maybe 73 but 70 was definitely Willis Reed year.
One has to wonder how the Knicks perform if Reed doesn't walk out the back onto the court in game 7.
The Lakers probably have the momentum and not the Knicks.
That changed the whole outlook on both teams.

Yea Reed inspired the Knicks in Game 7 but he was still almost a complete non-factor on the court for the last three games of that series. Given Frazier's huge performance in Game 7 and also in Game 5 I think he has a solid case for MFVP. Reed was obviously the better player that entire season.

[L.Kizzle]

Yea Reed inspired the Knicks in Game 7 but he was still almost a complete non-factor on the court for the last three games of that series. Given Frazier's huge performance in Game 7 and also in Game 5 I think he has a solid case for MFVP. Reed was obviously the better player that entire season.
Reed scored a total of 4 points in games 5 and 7 (didn't play game 6) and still had a higher avg than Clyde at 23 to 18.

Reed first four game stats
37 and 16
29 and 15
38 and 17
23 and 12

Frazier first four game stats
6 and 6
11 and 11
19 and 7
16 and 11

Reed was the MVP of that series and the Playoffs. Went against Wes, Kareem and Wilt in one series and possibly outplayed all 3 (haven't look at the stats yet.)

[8Ball]

Nash.

[Phoenix]

Nash has 9...

[Phoenix]

:confusedshrug:

[dankok8]

Shall we call this one and move on?

[Phoenix]

If Nash has a two vote lead I'd say yes, that would be consistent with prior threads. Seems like nobody else cares to vote on this one...

[dankok8]

Final Vote Tally

Steve Nash - 9 (1987_Lakers, dankok8, Airupthere, RRR3, Manny98, colts19, SouBeachTalents, ELITEpower23, 8Ball)
Allen Iverson - 6 (gonzaldo, Nike D'Antoni, Phoenix, francesco totti, LBJ, Lebron_James)
Willis Reed - 4 (jlip, L. Kizzle, TheCorporation, Honor Boost)
Kevin McHale - 1 (Round Mound)
Clyde Drexler - 1 (Reggie43)

Nash wins.

[Chick Stern]

This one is very close for me between Iverson and Nash.

What I like about Iverson. Fearless. Scoring machine, being a 4 time NBA scoring champ - this is really impressive considering his size and how much basketball was still considered a big man's game in his time. An indomitable will. I love that he was also three times the NBA steals leader; steals require not just quickness and athleticism, but also an ability to read the play and anticipate. And then he plays a lot - I didn't know that he led the league 8 times in minutes played per game. I believe he has more upside than Nash.

What I like about Nash. Cerebral. A lot more athletic than people realize - this guy is also very good at soccer and hockey outside of basketball. Makes teammates much better because of his playmaking - 5/6 times NBA assist leader depending on how you count. The cherry on top, when he decides not to pass he's a 50/40/90 deadeye of a shot.

If your team is a basement dweller, and badly needs a franchise player, then you should draft Iverson. He makes an immediate impact as evidenced by his winning of the NBA Rookie of the Year.

If your team is already a decent playoff contender, then Nash is the better and safer bet. He'll feed your scorers and keep them happy, which is great for team chemistry. The other major consideration is that he doesn't bring the harsh downside that Iverson does which can at times be poisonous to a team.

It really comes down to Iverson being more dominant individually, and Nash being a far superior team player overall. I really can't decide between the two. No vote for me this round.
No D from either one, so no vote from me.
And no, Nash was not the clear cut MVP in 2005.

I vote Reed.

[dankok8]

No D from either one, so no vote from me.
And no, Nash was not the clear cut MVP in 2005.

I vote Reed.

Wouldn't have made a difference here but added your vote to the new thread.