Looking at which great players carried their teams the most statistically, in the RS?

[coastalmarker99]

This thread examines all-time greats stat contributions to their teams. Based on the player's % of his team's PTS, REB, and AST.


(Note that this is not every player: as I only picked 20 all-time greats.)

TRB, AST, PTS, Total
32%, 16%, 24%, 73% Wilt

16%, 30%, 24%, 70% LeBron

11%, 35%, 20%, 66% Oscar

14%, 33%, 15%, 62% Magic

23%, 13%, 24%, 60% K. Malone

29%, 18%, 12%, 59% Russell

23%, 12%, 23%, 59% Pettit

6%, 39%, 13%, 58% Stockton

19%, 19%, 18%, 56% Bird

13%, 18%, 25%, 56% MJ

22%, 12%, 21%, 56% Kareem

24%, 13%, 19%, 55% Duncan

7%, 31%, 17%, 55% Cousy

23%, 14%, 17%, 54% Barkley

17%, 16%, 20%, 53% Dr. J

21%, 10%, 19%, 50% D-Rob

8%, 23%, 19%, 50% West

10%, 18%, 21%, 49% Kobe

22%, 9%, 18%, 49% Hakeem

16%, 14%, 18%, 48% Baylor

20%, 8%, 18%, 47% Shaq



Highest career AST% of these 20 players:

39% Stockton

35% Oscar

33% Magic

31% Cousy

30% LeBron


TRB%:

32% Wilt

29% Russell

24% Duncan

23% K. Malone, Pettit, Barkley,

22% Hakeem, Kareem


PTS%:

25% Jordan

24% Wilt, K. Malone, LeBron

23% Pettit

21% Kareem, Kobe

[coastalmarker99]

Observations:

1) AST is easiest to dominate (Magic, Oscar, Stockton, Cousy, LeBron each over 30%).

Also, high MP/G favoured, not surprisingly.


So let's examine per 48 MP now ...

Total % of team's TRB, AST, PTS per 48 MP (career):

97% LeBron

95% Magic

89% Stockton

84% Barkley

83% Bird

83% Duncan

82% Shaq

82% Wilt

81% Oscar

81% Jordan


80% Karl M

78% Robinson

78% Cousy

77% Kobe

76% Pettit

76% Hakeem

74% Kareem

74% West

73% Dr. J

72% Baylor

71% Russell



PTS%/48 MP career:
36% Jordan

33% LeBron, Kobe

32% Shaq

31% K. Malone

30% Pettit

29% West, Robinson

28% Kareem, Dr. J, Hakeem, Duncan

27% Wilt, Baylor, Bird, Barkley

25% Oscar

23% Magic, Cousy

19% Stockton

15% Russell


TRB%/48 MP career:

37% Wilt

36% Barkley, Duncan

35% Russell, Shaq

34% Hakeem, Robinson

31% K Malone

30% Pettit, Kareem

27% Bird

24% Baylor

23% Dr. J

22% LeBron

21% Magic

BTW: 45%(!) Rodman


AST%/48 MP career:

60% Stockton

51% Magic

44% Cousy

43% Oscar

42% LeBron

34% West

29% Bird

28% Kobe

26% Jordan

[Baller789]

This is a flawed way of looking at things purely by stats.
Case and point, the Phoenix Suns and Steve Nash.

[coastalmarker99]

Ok, now when examining the best seasons of statistical contribution (TRB, AST, PTS) to his team in RS of 20 all-time greats.

The results are.

top seasons: % of team's TRB, AST, PTS (total):

89% Wilt 1963

88% Wilt 1964

87% Oscar 1964

85% Wilt 1968

84% Wilt 1966

84% LeBron 2018

84% Oscar 1965

84% Wilt 1962

84% Oscar 1962

83% Wilt 1967


Highest % of team's PTS:

40% Wilt 1962

38% Wilt 1963

35% Jordan 1987

35% Kobe 2006

34% Wilt 1964

33% Jordan 1988

32% Wilt 1961

31% LeBron 2006

31% Jordan 1980

30% Wilt 1960


Highest % of team's TRB (including Rodman):

42% Rodman 1992

36% Wilt 1963

36% Wilt 1961

36% Rodman 1994

36% Wilt 1969

35% Wilt 1971

35% Kareem 1976

35% Wilt 1962

34% Wilt 1966

34% Wilt 1967


Highest % of team's AST:

53% Stockton 1989

53% Stockton 1991

51% Stockton 1992

51% Stockton 1990

47% Stockton 1994

47% Magic 1991

47% Stockton 1988

47% Oscar 1965

47% Oscar 1966

45% Oscar 1967


Per 48 MP: Highest % of team's TRB, AST, PTS (total):

111% LeBron 2020

110% LeBron 2018

108% Magic 1991

106% Magic 1989

106% LeBron 2017

104% LeBron 2009

104% LeBron 2021

104% LeBron 2010

103% LeBron 2019

101% LeBron 2008


Per 48 MP: Highest % of team's PTS:

42% Jordan 1987

42% Kobe 2006

40% Wilt 1962

40% Jordan 1988

38% Wilt 1963

38% Jordan 1993

38% Jordan 1990

37% Jordan 1991

37% LeBron 2008

37%Jordan 1996


1-15: Per 48 MP: % of team's TRB:
56% Rodman 1995
51% Rodman 1993
50% Rodman 1992
49% Rodman 1996
48% Rodman 1997
48% Rodman 1994
45% Rodman 1998
42% Barkley 1998
41% Barkley 1986
40% Kareem 1976
40% Rodman 1991
40% Barkley 1997
40% Mikan 1954
40% Shaq 1992
39% Barkley 1999

[coastalmarker99]

This is a flawed way of looking at things purely by stats.
Case and point, the Phoenix Suns and Steve Nash.


The stats we have could be evidence that Lebron and Wilt were maybe the best players when it come to carrying their teams in NBA history.

It's interesting to note that Wilt had 8 coaches during the course of his 14-year career.

4 had never coached in NBA.

1 had coached for 1.5 yrs in NBA.

1 had coached for 1 yr.

And yet he still made 2 finals with these newbies, 2x losing in 7.


And when Wilt actually had 2 experienced coaches coaching him in Hannum and Sharman.

He won rings with both and made 4 Finals in 6 yrs with them and it very well easily could have been 5 finals in six years if not for injuries in 1968.



As for Lebron he has taken four head coaches to the finals and has also taken each of the teams he has played on to the finals and has also won titles with them all.

[000]

How long did this take sheesh

[8Ball]

Good thread.


It is always known that Wilt did a lot of the heavy lifting for his teams.

Bron has a massive plate of responsibilities that many other elite players never had.

[Baller789]

The stats we have could be evidence that Lebron and Wilt were maybe the best players when it come to carrying their teams in NBA history.

It's interesting to note that Wilt had 8 coaches during the course of his 14-year career.

4 had never coached in NBA.

1 had coached for 1.5 yrs in NBA.

1 had coached for 1 yr.

And yet he still made 2 finals with these newbies, 2x losing in 7.


And when Wilt actually had 2 experienced coaches coaching him in Hannum and Sharman.

He won rings with both and made 4 Finals in 6 yrs with them and it very well easily could have been 5 finals in six years if not for injuries in 1968.



As for Lebron he has taken four head coaches to the finals and has also taken each of the teams he has played on to the finals and has also won titles with them all.

There are things that don't directly show on stats.

Take away Steve Nash on those Phoenix teams and they turn into $+!+.

[warriorfan]

KG would have done well in this comparison.

Westbrook, Harden, Wade, would be interesting too.

[Manny98]

Observation, the two top players on the list have the two worst finals record of the top 10

LeBron/Wilt/Westbrook stuffing the statsheet style doesn't lead to winning at the championship level

[j3lademaster]

KG would have done well in this comparison.

Westbrook, Harden, Wade, would be interesting too.Russ would be an extreme example of this stat not holding up well. But you can't just pick at exceptions to disprove something either. This, like any other stat, will need context.

[TheCorporation]

LBJ #2

MJ #10

Checks out :pimp:

MJ was just a scorer, not a do it all threat like Wilt, LBJ, Pippen, Magic, etc.

I'm curious to see 1994 Pippen if you can.

[TheCorporation]

Observation, the two top players on the list have the two worst finals record of the top 10

LeBron/Wilt/Westbrook stuffing the statsheet style doesn't lead to winning at the championship level

LeBron has second Finals MVPs all time :lol

and Wilt went up against KD Warriors talent deficits quite often.

When did you become a troll? After 2020?

[Stephonit]

This is a list of the players with the largest drop-off in the playoffs isn't it?

[Baller789]

This is a list of the players with the largest drop-off in the playoffs isn't it?

Pretty much.

[TheCorporation]

This is a list of the players with the largest drop-off in the playoffs isn't it?

I don't think Steph was on there :(

[coastalmarker99]

LeBron has second Finals MVPs all time :lol

and Wilt went up against KD Warriors talent deficits quite often.

When did you become a troll? After 2020?

Celtics ALL NBA Players (Top 10 Players)

1960: Cousy, Russell, Sharmin

1961: Cousy, Russell, Heinsohn

1962: Cousy, Russell, Heinsohn

1963: Cousy, Russell, Heinsohn

1964: Russell, Heinsohn, Havlicek

1965: Russell, Sam Jones

1966: Russell, Sam Jones, Havlicek


Warriors(1960 to 1965): Chamberlain



When people claim that Celtics 7-1 PO record shows Russell dominated and is better than Wilt as a player all time.

Wilt fans say he dominated Russell individually but that Russell's teammates outplayed Wilt’s.


This comment looks at the actual record, series by series and game by game and decides which side is right or not in their arguments.


I examined all 49 PO games. I tracked data in four categories: TS%, Pts, Reb, Ast.

The overall data showed this:

PTS: Wilt: 43-6 (Wilt had more points than BR in 43 games vs. 6 games for Russ.)

REB: Wilt: 32-18 (1 tie)

AST: BR: 27-15 (7 ties)

TS%: Wilt: 32-17


I figured out Russ/Wilt’s teammates’ data by subtracting Russ/Wilt’s stats from team stats.

PTS: BR's teammates: 40-9 (BR teammates had more points than Wilt's in 40 of those games, vs. 9 for Wilt's mates.)

REB: BR teammates, 33-15 (1 tie)

AST: BR teammates: 28-16-5

TS%: BR teammates, 26-23


Also, finally, we know that Wilt and Russell played H2H in 8 PO series.


But who led in each category:

PTS: 8-0 Wilt

REB: 8-0 Wilt

AST: 6-2 Russell

TS%: 8-0 Wilt



Teammates:

PTS: 8-0 Russell's teammates

REB: 7-1 Russell's

AST: 5-3 Russell's

TS%: 5-3 Russell's


Therefore we see with the data that Wilt bested Russ in 26 of 32 (81%) categories over 8 PO series.


And that Russ's 11 teammates bested Wilt's 11 teammates in 25 of 32 (78%)categories over 8 PO series



It's hard to blame Wilt for not winning more rings for his career when every year he was basically going up against KD Warrior's talent deficits quite often.

[coastalmarker99]

LeBron has second Finals MVPs all time :lol

and Wilt went up against KD Warriors talent deficits quite often.

When did you become a troll? After 2020?

Wilt's Warriors teammates' FG%: (10/24/1959-1/8/65): .39.1%

(Wilt himself with the Warriors shot .50.7%)

76ers FG%: (1/21/65-4/19/68): .42.6

(Wilt himself shot .56.4% with the 76ers)

Lakers FG% (1969-1973): .45.8%

(Wilt himself shot .59.1% with the Lakers)

I'm positive no all-time great offensive force had worse overall support offensively- over an extended period of time- than Wilt did during his time on the Warriors.

He was also instructed/ordered by both McGuire and Feerick to score as much as possible/shoot basically every time down.

Even Hannum himself strongly encouraged it in 64' and 65'.

[Axe]

I don't think Steph was on there :(
:ohwell: