What is happening with Dame so far this season?

[hold this L]

Really bizarre that he's shooting so poorly. Obviously I fully expect him to start shooting much, much better in the next 5 or so games. But it is weird that the man is shooting blanks almost every game for this season. Is it fatigue due to Olympics, new rules, injury, or something else?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/lobRpLsXzHAnQGTn9n/giphy.gif?cid=790b761168351220aa7e4abb7d0940fac8b0 10529ec2ab39&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[8Ball]

I think he checked out mentally. All the trade rumors, demand a trade, don't demand a trade. Crappy team.


Dude took the max money so he has to deal with it.

[L.Kizzle]

He bout to turn into Deron Williams soon.

[Thenameless]

So, the Lakers shouldn't try to acquire him then?

[Im so nba'd out]

probably secretly hurt. Just the logical conclusion. Whenever he's hurt he always shoots like sht. I seen him do this one year in the playoffs vs the nuggets when he was hurt.

If you ever see a good player playing like dog shit its because something is wrong. This isnt running back in the NFL. Players dont just fall off instantly, its a slow decline from age in the NBA. Never this drastic of a decline from age.

edit getting paid and not caring yes. coming back from surgery yes. playing on a new team or differen role as a older player yes. age no....almost never ever happens in the NBA. You still have the same exact iq, losing a little speed doesnt affect your whole game....Thats not how basketball works

double edit - ive seen him win with worse players so its not his teammates...aminu harkless plumlee wes matthews meyers leonard allen crabbe vohleh ed davis whiteside... he always has awful teammates

[Jasper]

preppin' for a push trade.

[k0kakw0rld]

Not like he did not have poor starts before. He will start scoring 50 in no time.

On the real though, he doesn't look like he wants to be out there. Which is another possibility as well.

[ArbitraryWater]

probably secretly hurt. Just the logical conclusion. Whenever he's hurt he always shoots like sht. I seen him do this one year in the playoffs vs the nuggets when he was hurt.

If you ever see a good player playing like dog shit its because something is wrong. This isnt running back in the NFL. Players dont just fall off instantly, its a slow decline from age in the NBA. Never this drastic of a decline from age.

edit getting paid and not caring yes. coming back from surgery yes. playing on a new team or differen role as a older player yes. age no....almost never ever happens in the NBA. You still have the same exact iq, losing a little speed doesnt affect your whole game....Thats not how basketball works

double edit - ive seen him win with worse players so its not his teammates...aminu harkless plumlee wes matthews meyers leonard allen crabbe vohleh ed davis whiteside... he always has awful teammates

lol

[Bronbron23]

Really bizarre that he's shooting so poorly. Obviously I fully expect him to start shooting much, much better in the next 5 or so games. But it is weird that the man is shooting blanks almost every game for this season. Is it fatigue due to Olympics, new rules, injury, or something else?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/lobRpLsXzHAnQGTn9n/giphy.gif?cid=790b761168351220aa7e4abb7d0940fac8b0 10529ec2ab39&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Clearly it's mostly the rules. Literally almost every perimeter scorer is struggling since the rule change. They can't all be having slow starts. Even steph who isn't as effected by the rule change as most is having one of his worst shooting seasons ever so far.

[fsvr54]

He's on the wrong side of 30, a lot of dudes bodies are just broken down by that point.

[hold this L]

Clearly it's mostly the rules. Literally almost every perimeter scorer is struggling since the rule change. They can't all be having slow starts. Even steph who isn't as effected by the rule change as most is having one of his worst shooting seasons ever so far.

Steph was shooting even worse in the first 5 games of last season, I'd wait a little before getting too excited.

[Bronbron23]

Steph was shooting even worse in the first 5 games of last season, I'd wait a little before getting too excited.

We'll see but Steph is generally less efficient against more physical play. We've seen this countless times in the finals where refs allow more physicality.

[Stephonit]

I seem to recall reading that a lot of tragic stuff happened to Lillard's circle of friends fairly recently. He might not entirely be there if it's weighing on him mentally or emotionally.


We'll see but Steph is generally less efficient against more physical play. We've seen this countless times in the finals where refs allow more physicality.

Countless times in the finals where he has a winning record.

[clipps]

I farted.

[Axe]

I farted.
Oof

[Axe]

Btw, dame is more clutch than op's hero. Especially in the playoffs.

[hold this L]

We'll see but Steph is generally less efficient against more physical play. We've seen this countless times in the finals where refs allow more physicality.
Seems more efficient than Jordan in the playoffs career wise

Curry: TS 60.9%
MJ: TS 56.8%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html




Now lets look at finals.

Curry: TS 58.9%
MJ: TS 55.9%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=stephen+curry+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals


Your hero seems to shoot much worse than this poor little 6 3' guy both overall in the playoffs and finals, where he struggles so much due to more physicality. Should we remove your hero out of the top 10 since he can't even shoot anywhere near as good as some NBA player that struggles shooting so much due to physical play?

[8Ball]

Seems more efficient than Jordan in the playoffs career wise

Curry: TS 60.9%
MJ: TS 56.8%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html




Now lets look at finals.

Curry: TS 58.9%
MJ: TS 55.9%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=stephen+curry+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals


Your hero seems to shoot worse than this poor little 6 3' guy both overall in the playoffs and finals, where he struggles so much due to more physicality. Should we remove your hero out of the top 10 since he can't even shoot anywhere near as good as some NBA player that struggles shooting so much due to physical play?

Uh oh!

[Bronbron23]

I seem to recall reading that a lot of tragic stuff happened to Lillard's circle of friends fairly recently. He might not entirely be there if it's weighing on him mentally or emotionally.



Countless times in the finals where he has a winning record.

Well picking up the second best player in the world might of had something to do with steph's record but it's not like i'm saying steph was trash in the finals. He was still very good but relative to his own play he usually gets a bit worse come finals time where atg like mj and bron stay the same or raise their level.

[Bronbron23]

Seems more efficient than Jordan in the playoffs career wise

Curry: TS 60.9%
MJ: TS 56.8%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html




Now lets look at finals.

Curry: TS 58.9%
MJ: TS 55.9%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=stephen+curry+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals


Your hero seems to shoot much worse than this poor little 6 3' guy both overall in the playoffs and finals, where he struggles so much due to more physicality. Should we remove your hero out of the top 10 since he can't even shoot anywhere near as good as some NBA player that struggles shooting so much due to physical play?

Mj ain't my hero dude he could die tomorrow and i wouldn't care but it just is what it is.

And ts has it's faults like fg does plus mj played through a much tougher defensive era and scored efficiently while playing first team defense type defense. Your also comparing prime steph numbers to MJ's who's efficiency took a dip some as he got older. Lets see what steph does as he gets older. My guess is his ts% will drop some.

[hold this L]

He was still very good but relative to his own play he usually gets a bit worse come finals time where atg like mj and bron stay the same or raise their level.
Steph's TS% drops by 2%, while MJ drops by 1% in the finals relative to their overall TS% numbers in the playoffs. This 1% has been enough for you to talk shit about Steph for 5 years on here while you talk about Lebron or MJ raising their level which clearly for MJ, is incorrect.

Lebron's NBA finals TS% is 56.3%, which is higher than MJ and less than Steph in the finals. Career wise in the playoffs, it's 58.3% in the playoffs. All 3 players shooting numbers dropped, the same 2% for Lebron/Steph, and 1% for MJ. Difference is, Curry's and Lebron's lower finals TS% is still higher than MJ's average TS% playoff numbers, which are higher than MJ's finals shooting numbers.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron+james+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html


Well picking up the second best player in the world might of had something to do with steph's record but it's not like i'm saying steph was trash in the finals.
Keep that same energy babyboi, don't backtrack now. Lets look at Steph's 3 finals without KD and put it through the TS% calculator.

Steph's TS% in
2015 - 58.5%
2016 - 58%
2019 - 59.8%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry+ts%25+stats+in+2015+nba+finals (change 2015 to any other year)
His worst shooting in the finals was 1 of the 2 years he played with KD because unlike KD, he was the one that was still getting defended the same (doubled, trapped) while KD was treated as a role player averaging 35 while being single-coveraged or being left wide open. Reality is that you can pick any year for Steph's shooting numbers in the finals, and each year is higher than MJ's average. Even the worst the year.

The most amazing thing is that you only wrote 2 sentences yet managed to be wrong on literally every single thing you typed out. That's special.

[hold this L]

Mj ain't my hero dude he could die tomorrow and i wouldn't care but it just is what it is.

And ts has it's faults like fg does plus mj played through a much tougher defensive era and scored efficiently while playing first team defense type defense. Your also comparing prime steph numbers to MJ's who's efficiency took a dip some as he got older. Lets see what steph does as he gets older. My guess is his ts% will drop some.
Steph just got 65.5% TS as a 33 year old last season. MJ's best season ever was 60.6% in 1990 as a 27 year old. I'm loving the excuses though, age, harder era then, defense, the sun was too hot. So many more obstacles.

[8Ball]

Steph's TS% drops by 2%, while MJ drops by 1% in the finals relative to their overall TS% numbers in the playoffs. This 1% has been enough for you to talk shit about Steph for 5 years on here while you talk about Lebron or MJ raising their level which clearly for MJ, is incorrect.

Lebron's NBA finals TS% is 56.3%, which is higher than MJ and less than Steph in the finals. Career wise in the playoffs, it's 58.3% in the playoffs. All 3 players shooting numbers dropped, the same 2% for Lebron/Steph, and 1% for MJ. Difference is, Curry's and Lebron's lower finals TS% is still higher than MJ's average TS% playoff numbers, which are higher than MJ's finals shooting numbers.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron+james+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html


Keep that same energy babyboi, don't backtrack now. Lets look at Steph's 3 finals without KD and put it through the TS% calculator.

Steph's TS% in
2015 - 58.5%
2016 - 58%
2019 - 59.8%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry+ts%25+stats+in+2015+nba+finals (change 2015 to any other year)
His worst shooting in the finals was 1 of the 2 years he played with KD because unlike KD, he was the one that was still getting defended the same (doubled, trapped) while KD was treated as a role player averaging 35 while being single-coveraged or being left wide open. Reality is that you can pick any year for Steph's shooting numbers in the finals, and each year is higher than MJ's average. Even the worst the year.

The most amazing thing is that you only wrote 2 sentences yet managed to be wrong on literally every single thing you typed out. That's special.

Bronbron has no idea what he talks about. As usual.

He walked into a Curry landmine and got blown up.

[8Ball]

Mj ain't my hero dude he could die tomorrow and i wouldn't care but it just is what it is.

And ts has it's faults like fg does plus mj played through a much tougher defensive era and scored efficiently while playing first team defense type defense. Your also comparing prime steph numbers to MJ's who's efficiency took a dip some as he got older. Lets see what steph does as he gets older. My guess is his ts% will drop some.

Time to retire this account bronbron23.

You have zero credibility left after losing every argument on this forum on vaccines / curry / Lebron / and your idol MJ.

[Bronbron23]

Steph's TS% drops by 2%, while MJ drops by 1% in the finals relative to their overall TS% numbers in the playoffs. This 1% has been enough for you to talk shit about Steph for 5 years on here while you talk about Lebron or MJ raising their level which clearly for MJ, is incorrect.

Lebron's NBA finals TS% is 56.3%, which is higher than MJ and less than Steph in the finals. Career wise in the playoffs, it's 58.3% in the playoffs. All 3 players shooting numbers dropped, the same 2% for Lebron/Steph, and 1% for MJ. Difference is, Curry's and Lebron's lower finals TS% is still higher than MJ's average TS% playoff numbers, which are higher than MJ's finals shooting numbers.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron+james+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html


Keep that same energy babyboi, don't backtrack now. Lets look at Steph's 3 finals without KD and put it through the TS% calculator.

Steph's TS% in
2015 - 58.5%
2016 - 58%
2019 - 59.8%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry+ts%25+stats+in+2015+nba+finals (change 2015 to any other year)
His worst shooting in the finals was 1 of the 2 years he played with KD because unlike KD, he was the one that was still getting defended the same (doubled, trapped) while KD was treated as a role player averaging 35 while being single-coveraged or being left wide open. Reality is that you can pick any year for Steph's shooting numbers in the finals, and each year is higher than MJ's average. Even the worst the year.

The most amazing thing is that you only wrote 2 sentences yet managed to be wrong on literally every single thing you typed out. That's special.

Your whole argument is based on ts% which is flawed for several reasons. Foul shooting being one of them so let's take foul shooting out of the equation since it only makes up a very small amount of steph's points in the post season. I know that sucks for you because steph stans love hiding behind ts%

Now lets compare mj and steph in the playoffs and finals at the same age.

Steph:

2015 reg season 49% fg 44% 3pt
2015 playofg 46% fg 42% 3pt
2015 finals 44% fg 39% 3pt

2016 reg season 50% fg 45% 3pt
2016 playoff 44% fg 40% 3pt
2016 finals 40% fg 40% 3pt

2017 reg season 47% fg 41% 3pt
2017 playoffs 48% fg 42% 3pt
2017 finals 45% fg 39% 3pt

2018 reg season 50% fg 42% 3pt
2018 Playoff 45% 40% 3pt
2018 finals 40% 42% 3pt

2019 reg season 47% fg 44% 3pt
2019 playoff 44% fg 38% 3pt
2019 finals 41% fg 34% 3pt

Mj:

1989 reg season 54% fg 28% 3pt
1989 playoff 51% fg 29% 3pt

1990 reg season 53% fg 38% 3pt
1990 playoff 51% fg 32% 3pt

1991 reg season 53% fg 31% 3pt
1991 playoff 52% fg 39% 3pt
1991 finals 56% fg 3pt 50%

1992 reg season 52%fg 3pt 27%
1992 playoff 50% fg 39% 3pt
1992 finals 43% 3pt

1993 reg season 50% fg 35% 3pt
1993 playoffs 48% fg 39% 3pt
1993 finals 51% fg 40% 3pt

So as you can see as mj usually stays the same or gets better and steph usually gets worse. He's definitely wsy worse than the 1% difference you tried to show

Another thing to note is MJ's finals 3pt efficiency in the finals during the same age is better than steph's albeit steph shot alot more. This really dosn't matter though because mj is the goat volume shooter so shooting more dosn't make him less efficient.

So this clearly shows how misleading ts% is when trying to compare efficiency from the field. Steph gets way to much value from shooting more threes and mj dosn't get enough value from shooting twice as many free throws which should be weighted more than threes since they're the most efficient way to score. This is why ts% is trash and only people who don't understand the game use it.

[Bronbron23]

Steph just got 65.5% TS as a 33 year old last season. MJ's best season ever was 60.6% in 1990 as a 27 year old. I'm loving the excuses though, age, harder era then, defense, the sun was too hot. So many more obstacles.

In the playoffs? Pretty sure he got booted out the playoffs by a a young player who's less efficient than mj from the field so not sure how that's q goid argument buddy.

[Bronbron23]

Time to retire this account bronbron23.

You have zero credibility left after losing every argument on this forum on vaccines / curry / Lebron / and your idol MJ.

Ok noballs. I neutered you a long time ago. Why you think your nickname is noballs:oldlol:

[8Ball]

Your whole argument is based on ts% which is flawed for several reasons. Foul shooting being one of them so let's take foul shooting out of the equation since it only makes up a very small amount of steph's points in the post season. I know that sucks for you because steph stans love hiding behind ts%

Now lets compare mj and steph in the playoffs and finals at the same age.

Steph:

2015 reg season 49% fg 44% 3pt
2015 playofg 46% fg 42% 3pt
2015 finals 44% fg 39% 3pt

2016 reg season 50% fg 45% 3pt
2016 playoff 44% fg 40% 3pt
2016 finals 40% fg 40% 3pt

2017 reg season 47% fg 41% 3pt
2017 playoffs 48% fg 42% 3pt
2017 finals 45% fg 39% 3pt

2018 reg season 50% fg 42% 3pt
2018 Playoff 45% 40% 3pt
2018 finals 40% 42% 3pt

2019 reg season 47% fg 44% 3pt
2019 playoff 44% fg 38% 3pt
2019 finals 41% fg 34% 3pt

Mj:

1989 reg season 54% fg 28% 3pt
1989 playoff 51% fg 29% 3pt

1990 reg season 53% fg 38% 3pt
1990 playoff 51% fg 32% 3pt

1991 reg season 53% fg 31% 3pt
1991 playoff 52% fg 39% 3pt
1991 finals 56% fg 3pt 50%

1992 reg season 52%fg 3pt 27%
1992 playoff 50% fg 39% 3pt
1992 finals 43% 3pt

1993 reg season 50% fg 35% 3pt
1993 playoffs 48% fg 39% 3pt
1993 finals 51% fg 40% 3pt

So as you can see as mj usually stays the same or gets better and steph usually gets worse. He's definitely wsy worse than the 1% difference you tried to show

Another thing to note is MJ's finals 3pt efficiency in the finals during the same age is better than steph's albeit steph shot alot more. This really dosn't matter though because mj is the goat volume shooter so shooting more dosn't make him less efficient.

So this clearly shows how misleading ts% is when trying to compare efficiency from the field. Steph gets way to much value from shooting more threes and mj dosn't get enough value from shooting twice as many free throws which should be weighted more than threes since they're the most efficient way to score. This is why ts% is trash and only people who don't understand the game use it.

FG% includes 3 point shooting %. 40% from 3 is about equal to 60% from 2. That's why we use TS% now for efficiency comparisons.


You are one of the most unintelligent posters on this board its hilarious. :lol

[8Ball]

So this clearly shows how misleading ts% is when trying to compare efficiency from the field. Steph gets way to much value from shooting more threes and mj dosn't get enough value from shooting twice as many free throws which should be weighted more than threes since they're the most efficient way to score. This is why ts% is trash and only people who don't understand the game use it.

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/stats/graphics/tspformula.png

Looks like you have no idea what you are talking about.

https://c.tenor.com/nmk1aE7XnxwAAAAd/laughing-hysterically-thats-funny.gif

[8Ball]

Bronbron23, from your posts it is near 100% certainty you either failed stats class or never walked into a stats class in your life. :roll:


What a humiliation. If I was ever humiliated like this I would delete my account and jump off a bridge. Life is too hard being a complete retard.

[Bronbron23]

FG% includes 3 point shooting %. 40% from 3 is about equal to 60% from 2. That's why we use TS% now for efficiency comparisons.


You are one of the most unintelligent posters on this board its hilarious. :lol

No shit Sherlock. You don't even know how ts is calculated noballs. Foul shots are the most efficient way to score and mj shoots alot more than steph yet they're valued alot less in ts% formula. If this was calculated correctly mj would be equal in efficiency even though he played in a harder scoring era and had to play at an elite level on both ends of the floor.

You don't know shit noballs

[Bronbron23]

Bronbron23, from your posts it is near 100% certainty you either failed stats class or never walked into a stats class in your life. :roll:


What a humiliation. If I was ever humiliated like this I would delete my account and jump off a bridge. Life is too hard being a complete retard.

Cool so tell me what's a value of a three and a value of a foul shot when calculating ts? Do u even know?

[Bronbron23]

Bronbron23, from your posts it is near 100% certainty you either failed stats class or never walked into a stats class in your life. :roll:


What a humiliation. If I was ever humiliated like this I would delete my account and jump off a bridge. Life is too hard being a complete retard.

Waiting as noballs looks up how to calculate ts%:roll:

[8Ball]

Cool so tell me what's a value of a three and a value of a foul shot when calculating ts? Do u even know?

Do you understand this formula and how free throw shots work?

The higher your free throw % the higher your TS%. The more free throws you take at a higher % the higher your TS%. DURRRRRRRPPPPPP

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/stats/graphics/tspformula.png


Why do we have do explain everything to you like you are a 5 year old?


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xnoIXebk3xYx4Q/giphy.gif

[8Ball]

Holy shit this is so Gold. Bronbron23 reveals how little he knows. Its beautiful. I'm gonna bookmark this thread for future reference purposes.

[000]

Steph's TS% drops by 2%, while MJ drops by 1% in the finals relative to their overall TS% numbers in the playoffs. This 1% has been enough for you to talk shit about Steph for 5 years on here while you talk about Lebron or MJ raising their level which clearly for MJ, is incorrect.

Lebron's NBA finals TS% is 56.3%, which is higher than MJ and less than Steph in the finals. Career wise in the playoffs, it's 58.3% in the playoffs. All 3 players shooting numbers dropped, the same 2% for Lebron/Steph, and 1% for MJ. Difference is, Curry's and Lebron's lower finals TS% is still higher than MJ's average TS% playoff numbers, which are higher than MJ's finals shooting numbers.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=lebron+james+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html


Keep that same energy babyboi, don't backtrack now. Lets look at Steph's 3 finals without KD and put it through the TS% calculator.

Steph's TS% in
2015 - 58.5%
2016 - 58%
2019 - 59.8%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=steph+curry+ts%25+stats+in+2015+nba+finals (change 2015 to any other year)
His worst shooting in the finals was 1 of the 2 years he played with KD because unlike KD, he was the one that was still getting defended the same (doubled, trapped) while KD was treated as a role player averaging 35 while being single-coveraged or being left wide open. Reality is that you can pick any year for Steph's shooting numbers in the finals, and each year is higher than MJ's average. Even the worst the year.

The most amazing thing is that you only wrote 2 sentences yet managed to be wrong on literally every single thing you typed out. That's special.

:lebronamazed:

:djparty

[Bronbron23]

Do you understand this formula and how free throw shots work?

The higher your free throw % the higher your TS%. The more free throws you take at a higher % the higher your TS%. DURRRRRRRPPPPPP

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/stats/graphics/tspformula.png


Why do we have do explain everything to you like you are a 5 year old?


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xnoIXebk3xYx4Q/giphy.gif

Again no shit Sherlock. But what is a foul shot worth in value and whats a free throw worth?

[8Ball]

Again no shit Sherlock. But what is a foul shot worth in value and whats a free throw worth?


It's an efficiency formula that incorporates 3 point shot efficiency, 2 point shot efficiency and free throw shot values based on how much you score.

The higher your 3 point % with number of attempts, the higher your TS%.
The higher your free throw % with number of attempts, the higher your TS%.


This is embarrassing and humiliating. I suggest you stop now since you are completely in over your head.


https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/stats/graphics/tspformula.png

[Bronbron23]

Again no shit Sherlock. But what is a foul shot worth in value and whats a free throw worth?

For instance mj had significantly more and 1's than steph in the post season. Why is a three worth 150% in value and a made and 1 is only worth 104%?

[8Ball]

For instance mj had significantly more and 1's than steph in the post season. Why is a three worth 150% in value and a made and 1 is only worth 104%?

And 1's are incorporated in the TS formula. I suggest you google it.


You don't understand algebra that is why you have so much trouble right now. Go back to school.

[Bronbron23]

And 1's are incorporated in the TS formula. I suggest you google it.


You don't understand algebra that is why you have so much trouble right now. Go back to school.

No shit it's calculated dipshit. That's part of my point it's not calculated correctly. That's why ts% has been debunked as a true measure of efficiency a long time ago.

And i'm still waiting for a response. Why is a three valued at 150% in ts% and a made an1 calculated as 104%.

Heres a hint there is no reason that makes sense That's why ts% is trash when comparing certain players and that's why u lose thae argument noballs

[j3lademaster]

TS is weighted based on how many attempts a player takes of each category, so if a higher percentage of your attempts are free throws you’ll see your free throw percentage have a bigger influence on your overall ts. TS is designed to measure points per attempt. Which it generally does outside of extreme examples, and why it’s regarded as the best stat to measure efficiency.

And you’re not wrong about TS having flaws, you just didn’t highlight its flaw. If I took an extreme ex: Player A dunks the ball and gets fouled and proceeds to miss the ft. Compare that to a player B just hitting a layup, both p1 and p2 are 1/1 from the field but p1 has a lower TS going 0/1 ft, but p1 had more impact on his play by punishing the other team with a foul(hopefully on a key player) and 1 foul closer to the foul limit.

As far as MJ vs Steph in the playoffs I would have argued fg > TS by using Durant as an example. His help was horrid against Milwaukee, but whenever Mil tried to pull away, Durant hits a basket to stop the bleeding. Instead on relying on the more volatile 3 pointer, he imposes his will and gets the highest overall percentage shot. This is why Durant, Giannis and Lebron are more effective scorers than Curry in the playoffs. And when you need a game winner or go ahead and you don’t care about points per possession, you just want a basket; fg% > TS.

[j3lademaster]

No shit it's calculated dipshit. That's part of my point it's not calculated correctly. That's why ts% has been debunked as a true measure of efficiency a long time ago.

And i'm still waiting for a response. Why is a three valued at 150% in ts% and a made an1 calculated as 104%.

Heres a hint there is no reason that makes sense That's why ts% is trash when comparing certain players and that's why u lose thae argument noballswhere did you get that an and1 is calculated at 104%?

[Bronbron23]

where did you get that an and1 is calculated at 104%?

That's how it works put when u put it in the calculation. I remember a convo like this back a few years back on realgm. I just found it. It explains all the problems with how ts is calculated. I'll post it being its way easier than writing it all out here. https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1503928

[hold this L]

Your whole argument is based on ts% which is flawed for several reasons. Foul shooting being one of them so let's take foul shooting out of the equation since it only makes up a very small amount of steph's points in the post season. I know that sucks for you because steph stans love hiding behind ts%

Now lets compare mj and steph in the playoffs and finals at the same age.

Steph:

2015 reg season 49% fg 44% 3pt
2015 playofg 46% fg 42% 3pt
2015 finals 44% fg 39% 3pt

2016 reg season 50% fg 45% 3pt
2016 playoff 44% fg 40% 3pt
2016 finals 40% fg 40% 3pt

2017 reg season 47% fg 41% 3pt
2017 playoffs 48% fg 42% 3pt
2017 finals 45% fg 39% 3pt

2018 reg season 50% fg 42% 3pt
2018 Playoff 45% 40% 3pt
2018 finals 40% 42% 3pt

2019 reg season 47% fg 44% 3pt
2019 playoff 44% fg 38% 3pt
2019 finals 41% fg 34% 3pt

Mj:

1989 reg season 54% fg 28% 3pt
1989 playoff 51% fg 29% 3pt

1990 reg season 53% fg 38% 3pt
1990 playoff 51% fg 32% 3pt

1991 reg season 53% fg 31% 3pt
1991 playoff 52% fg 39% 3pt
1991 finals 56% fg 3pt 50%

1992 reg season 52%fg 3pt 27%
1992 playoff 50% fg 39% 3pt
1992 finals 43% 3pt

1993 reg season 50% fg 35% 3pt
1993 playoffs 48% fg 39% 3pt
1993 finals 51% fg 40% 3pt

So as you can see as mj usually stays the same or gets better and steph usually gets worse. He's definitely wsy worse than the 1% difference you tried to show

Another thing to note is MJ's finals 3pt efficiency in the finals during the same age is better than steph's albeit steph shot alot more. This really dosn't matter though because mj is the goat volume shooter so shooting more dosn't make him less efficient.

So this clearly shows how misleading ts% is when trying to compare efficiency from the field. Steph gets way to much value from shooting more threes and mj dosn't get enough value from shooting twice as many free throws which should be weighted more than threes since they're the most efficient way to score. This is why ts% is trash and only people who don't understand the game use it.
Why are you going with FG and 3PT shooting? The only reason TS% is trash to you is because it doesn't fit your insane narrative. That's how TS works you idiot, it includes 3P, 2P and FT shooting. It includes Jordan getting help from refs every time someone breathes on him and accounts it into TS. You say Steph gets too much value from shooting 3s.. well yes, because a 3 is more valuable than a 2 or FTs. Just because you don't like 3s and your hero couldn't shoot them at an elite level, it doesn't change that it is in fact the most valuable shot in the world. If you want to argue with a wall, go do it somewhere else. But people will use TS% because it's the most accurate manner to describe shooting.

Now lets get to your comical cherry picked statistics and get back to TS% again, because this is the most accurate shooting metric. If you don't like it, go find a forum that has other insecure MJ anonymous stans and blindly discuss things there. I'm not arguing with you to change what is the best logical metric to count shooting just because you don't like the results. I'll bold the times MJ beats Curry in shooting and add a :applause: since it's such a rare and special occasion. This is during this 5 prime year stretch comparing 1st vs 1st prime years, etc.

Curry
15 RS - 63.8%
15 PS - 60.7%
15 finals - 58.5%

16 RS - 66.9%
16 PS - 60.3%
16 finals - 58%

17 RS - 62.4%
17 PS - 65.9%
17 finals - 61.9%

18 RS - 67.5%
18 PS - 59%
18 finals - 56%

19 RS - 64.1%
19 PS - 62%
19 finals - 59.8%

MJ
89 RS - 61.4%
89 PS - 60.2%
89 finals - 0.0%

90 RS - 60.6%
90 PS - 59.2%
90 finals - 0.0%

91 RS - 60.5%
91 PS - 60%
91 finals - 61.2%

92 RS - 57.9%
92 PS - 57.1%
92 finals - 61.7% :applause:

93 RS - 56.4%
93 PS - 55.3
93 finals - 55.8%


Gotta give some massive props to MJ. In the 5 year stretch, ok sure he didn't manage to beat Curry in any RS or PS shooting, but he did get him in 1 out of the 5 finals. Impressed by the one true goat! :applause:


Another thing to note is MJ's finals 3pt efficiency in the finals during the same age is better than steph's albeit steph shot alot more. This really dosn't matter though because mj is the goat volume shooter so shooting more dosn't make him less efficient.
Yes mouth breather, shooting something at a much lesser quantity makes a huge difference when accounting that said shot is the one is 1. the most difficult to make, and 2. accounts for more points. That's even discounting the fact that Steph has someone guard him man to man before he gets to half court. Would be fun to read how many of those 3s are contested and to what level between MJ and Curry. And it clearly does matter, which is why again, true shooting is the best representative of someone's scoring. Someone taking more 3s which are more difficult shots and making more of them will account for.. better shooting metrics which is Curry murders Jordan when it comes to it.

At this point you're going to the point of insanity not look stupid in an online forum (which you do), where you want to discount the actual manner of which metrics are measured. That's not going to happen. If you want to count only stats that you like, go find a forum with a hivemind where people agree with you. It's fun watching your squirm because you just can't be an actual man and admit you were wrong, instead now you want to change the way shooting numbers are measured.

[tontoz]

The problem with TS, which isn't a big one, is that they have to estimate possessions for free throws. If a guy takes a technical free throw that isn't an extra possession. Neither is an and1. If you get fouled on a 3 pointer you get 3 shots but that is still one possession.

Considering all of this they can't just give .5 possession for each free throw. They had to reduce it to make the possessions come out right so, looking at the data at that time, they came up with an estimate of .44 possession per free throw.

So if a player took 5 free throws that counts as 2.2 possessions (5 x .44).

There are two problems with this. Some players don't take techs. Not all players have the same rate of and1s and 3s so it is always going to be a bit of an estimate when free throws are involved. It won't be 100% accurate.

Also at the time they came up with the formula teams were taking fewer 3s. If they were setting up this formula now the free throw multiplier would surely be less than .44.

If you want to calculate an exact TS for a game you just need to count up the number of possessions for all the players free throws which isn't practical on a large scale.

Ex: if a player took 6 free throws it could be two possessions (fouled on 2 3s), 3 possessions (fouled on 3 2s) or something in between. But just using the TS formula it is 2.64.

[hold this L]

TS is weighted based on how many attempts a player takes of each category, so if a higher percentage of your attempts are free throws you’ll see your free throw percentage have a bigger influence on your overall ts. TS is designed to measure points per attempt. Which it generally does outside of extreme examples, and why it’s regarded as the best stat to measure efficiency.

And you’re not wrong about TS having flaws, you just didn’t highlight its flaw. If I took an extreme ex: Player A dunks the ball and gets fouled and proceeds to miss the ft. Compare that to a player B just hitting a layup, both p1 and p2 are 1/1 from the field but p1 has a lower TS going 0/1 ft, but p1 had more impact on his play by punishing the other team with a foul(hopefully on a key player) and 1 foul closer to the foul limit.

As far as MJ vs Steph in the playoffs I would have argued fg > TS by using Durant as an example. His help was horrid against Milwaukee, but whenever Mil tried to pull away, Durant hits a basket to stop the bleeding. Instead on relying on the more volatile 3 pointer, he imposes his will and gets the highest overall percentage shot. This is why Durant, Giannis and Lebron are more effective scorers than Curry in the playoffs. And when you need a game winner or go ahead and you don’t care about points per possession, you just want a basket; fg% > TS.

Are you seriously putting Giannis there? Dude is one of the best examples of someone who can't make a bucket when you need him to, the last 5 minute Houdini. Middleton had one of the greatest clutch making PS in the history of the NBA last year for a reason, Giannis can't shoot for shit.

[Bronbron23]

Why are you going with FG and 3PT shooting? The only reason TS% is trash to you is because it doesn't fit your insane narrative. That's how TS works you idiot, it includes 3P, 2P and FT shooting. It includes Jordan getting help from refs every time someone breathes on him and accounts it into TS. You say Steph gets too much value from shooting 3s.. well yes, because a 3 is more valuable than a 2 or FTs. Just because you don't like 3s and your hero couldn't shoot them at an elite level, it doesn't change that it is in fact the most valuable shot in the world. If you want to argue with a wall, go do it somewhere else. But people will use TS% because it's the most accurate manner to describe shooting.

Now lets get to your comical cherry picked statistics and get back to TS% again, because this is the most accurate shooting metric. If you don't like it, go find a forum that has other insecure MJ anonymous stans and blindly discuss things there. I'm not arguing with you to change what is the best logical metric to count shooting just because you don't like the results. I'll bold the times MJ beats Curry in shooting and add a :applause: since it's such a rare and special occasion. This is during this 5 prime year stretch comparing 1st vs 1st prime years, etc.

Curry
15 RS - 63.8%
15 PS - 60.7%
15 finals - 58.5%

16 RS - 66.9%
16 PS - 60.3%
16 finals - 58%

17 RS - 62.4%
17 PS - 65.9%
17 finals - 61.9%

18 RS - 67.5%
18 PS - 59%
18 finals - 56%

19 RS - 64.1%
19 PS - 62%
19 finals - 59.8%

MJ
89 RS - 61.4%
89 PS - 60.2%
89 finals - 0.0%

90 RS - 60.6%
90 PS - 59.2%
90 finals - 0.0%

91 RS - 60.5%
91 PS - 60%
91 finals - 61.2%

92 RS - 57.9%
92 PS - 57.1%
92 finals - 61.7% :applause:

93 RS - 56.4%
93 PS - 55.3
93 finals - 55.8%


Gotta give some massive props to MJ. In the 5 year stretch, ok sure he didn't manage to beat Curry in any RS or PS shooting, but he did get him in 1 out of the 5 finals. Impressed by the one true goat! :applause:


Yes mouth breather, shooting something at a much lesser quantity makes a huge difference when accounting that said shot is the one is 1. the most difficult to make, and 2. accounts for more points. That's even discounting the fact that Steph has someone guard him man to man before he gets to half court. Would be fun to read how many of those 3s are contested and to what level between MJ and Curry. And it clearly does matter, which is why again, true shooting is the best representative of someone's scoring. Someone taking more 3s which are more difficult shots and making more of them will account for.. better shooting metrics which is Curry murders Jordan when it comes to it.

At this point you're going to the point of insanity not look stupid in an online forum (which you do), where you want to discount the actual manner of which metrics are measured. That's not going to happen. If you want to count only stats that you like, go find a forum with a hivemind where people agree with you. It's fun watching your squirm because you just can't be an actual man and admit you were wrong, instead now you want to change the way shooting numbers are measured.

No man its not my narrative. Ts just has some flaws is all. Don't be upset with me be upset with the math.

For instance. Mj shoots way more foul shots but he dosn't get the full value for them even though fs are the most efficient way to score as long as your good at them which mj is.

And i'm not saying steph isn't efficient. He's very efficient as is mj. The point from jump was that steph's level usually drops a bit come post season and especially finals and mj usually stays the same or gets better. This is even more true if we compare them at the same age. Steph hasn't played any playoffs past his prime yet but common sense says when he does his numbers will drop even more.

Again me saying him getting worse is relative to his own insane reg season play. Relative to everyone else steph getting worse is still very good.

[j3lademaster]

Are you seriously putting Giannis there? Dude is one of the best examples of someone who can't make a bucket when you need him to, the last 5 minute Houdini. Middleton had one of the greatest clutch making PS in the history of the NBA last year for a reason, Giannis can't shoot for shit.You're right, I probably shouldn't have put Giannis in there. I think he's a consistent scorer since he can just physically dominate but yeah, Middleton is their clutch shot maker.

[Axe]

Seems more efficient than Jordan in the playoffs career wise

Curry: TS 60.9%
MJ: TS 56.8%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html




Now lets look at finals.

Curry: TS 58.9%
MJ: TS 55.9%

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=stephen+curry+ts%25+stats+in+nba+finals


Your hero seems to shoot much worse than this poor little 6 3' guy both overall in the playoffs and finals, where he struggles so much due to more physicality. Should we remove your hero out of the top 10 since he can't even shoot anywhere near as good as some NBA player that struggles shooting so much due to physical play?
A little 6'3 guy that shoots a lot but still has no finals mvps? Sure.