Looking at who had the better teammates, Wilt or Russell?

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt played Russell and the Celtics 49 games in 8 PO series.

Wilt > his teammates in TS%:
44-5

Russell > his teammates in TS%:
22-26 (+1 tie)


AST/teammates' FGM:

13.2% Wilt

13.2% Russell


I examined all 49 PO games. I tracked data in four categories: TS%, Pts, Reb, Ast.




And I figured out Russ/Wilt’s teammates’ data by subtracting Russ/Wilt’s stats from team stats.

And the overall data showed this:

PTS: BR's teammates: 40-9 (BR teammates had more points than Wilt's in 40 of those games, vs. 9 for Wilt's mates.)

REB: BR teammates, 33-15 (1 tie)

AST: BR teammates: 28-16-5

TS%: BR teammates, 26-23


Also, finally, we know that Wilt and Russell played H2H in 8 PO series.


But who's teammates led in each category:



PTS: 8-0 Russell's teammates

REB: 7-1 Russell's

AST: 5-3 Russell's

TS%: 5-3 Russell's


Therefore we see with the data that Russell's teammates bested Wilt's teammates in 25 of 32 (78%)categories over 8 PO series



It's hard to blame Wilt for not winning more rings for his career when every year he was basically going up against KD Warrior's talent deficits quite often.



As Just going by off of awards the Celtics were overwhelmingly more talented than Wilt's teams.



1957 1st team All NBA players Cousy, and Sharman.

1958 1st team All NBA players Cousy, and Sharman. Russell 2nd team.

1959 3 1st team All NBA players Russell, Cousy, and Sharman...when else has that ever happened?

1960 Cousy 1st team All NBA, Russell, Sharman 2nd team

1961 Cousy 1st team All NBA, Russell, Heinsohn 2nd team

1962 Cousy, Russell, Heinsohn 2nd team All NBA...4 Celtics made the All-Star Team Cousy, Russell, Heinsohn, and Jones

1963 Russell 1st team All NBA, Cousy, Heinsohn 2nd team...Havlicek Rookie team

1964 Havlicek, Russell, Heinsohn All NBA 2nd team.... Sam Jones also made the All-Star team

1965 Russell 1st team, Sam Jones 2nd team

1966 Russell, Jones, Havlicek All NBA 2nd team

1967 Russell, Jones All NBA 2nd team

1968 Russell, Havlicek All NBA 2nd team

1969 Havlicek All NBA 2nd team

That is an amazing run of ALL NBA team honours that I don't see being matched ever again.

Russell was the constant figure but in that 12 year period, he had 5 other players join him on the All NBA teams.

Not one player in NBA history can say that.

[GrayGoat]

It’s easy to blame wilt. He was by far better than Russell and always played with at least two other HOFers. Wilt wasn’t the best team player

[SouBeachTalents]

Wilt absolutely deserves blame for not winning a single title between 1968-70. He honestly should’ve won all 3 years, not winning even once is ridiculous.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt absolutely deserves blame for not winning a single title between 1968-70. He honestly should’ve won all 3 years, not winning even once is ridiculous.

Wilt, West, and Baylor are all-time greats.

But when Wilt joined Lakers in 1968-69, their ages were:

32 Wilt

34 Baylor

30 West

This was in an era when 30 was old for NBA players.

Still despite that fact, you often hear about 1969-73 Lakers (especially Wilt) "choking and "being able to "only" win one ring.


In fact, the 1969 to 1973 Lakers lost only ONCE to a team w/ a lower SRS.

1969: Celtics had higher SRS.

1970: Knicks had much higher SRS (22 best ever) and 14-win better record.

[GrayGoat]

Wilt lost the majority of finals by basically a field goal. I don’t see an excuse

[Axe]

Too bad russell was just there to serve as his kryptonite.

[csh19792001]

WILT TEAMMATES' WIN SHARES
1960 27.4
1961 22.3
1962 22.2
1963 14.5
1964/65 (Weighted average) 14.5
1966 14.8
1967 37.6
1968 39.8
1969 35.1

Total WS 228.2

Averages/Season 25.4

RUSSELL TEAMMATES' WIN SHARES
1960 41.2
1961 42
1962 46.8
1963 44.9
1964 45.3
1966 53.8
1967 46.5
1968 43.2
1969 45.2

Total WS 454.8

Averages/Season 45.5

[Psileas]

Only certain contrarians would seriously claim that, per average, Wilt was having equal or better available teammates. I say "available" because we all know how often Wilt's teams were suffering from injuries when they were at least somewhat deep enough not to depend solely on Wilt, so, no, Wilt wasn't having, e.g, better teammates in '68, when basically the whole team was hurt. This trend, of course, continued after Russell's retirement, so, even what Wilt's teams did in the early 70's doesn't change the overall perception much.
I've watched pretty much all the widely available Wilt vs Russell footage there is and, although the team W-L column is vastly skewed in favor of Russell's teams (I guess they may have won like 80% of their "online" games, while in real life their winning percentage was 60%) and yet Wilt still looks the better player to me. And if he looks better when his team only wins 20% of these games, there's not a cat's chance in hell this is going to change when they win 40%. And, of course, this only leaves one option for their respective teammates...

[LostCause]

What ever happened to that guy Lazarus? Seems like a thread he’d be all over

[getting_old]

Wilt had the best team in the league, no contest, every year from the 1967 Sixers to the 1973 Lakers.

Why only 2 titles.... all in his head...