Scottie Pippen obliterates Michael Jordan

[JohnMax]

https://www.gq.com/story/scottie-pippen-unguarded-book-excerpt/amp

[GrayGoat]

@3ball

[Phoenix]

10 pages incoming...lemme grab a six pack and some popcorn.

[tontoz]

Sounds like a bitter old man. Two of the worst moments of his career were quitting on the team during the playoffs and waiting until the start of the season to have surgery to spite the front office. Neither had anything to do with MJ.

[SouBeachTalents]

Michael could shoot 6 for 24 from the field, commit 5 turnovers, and he was still, in the minds of the adoring press and public, the Errorless Jordan.
I lol'ed at this. Sounds like someone else we know

[Airupthere]

Sounds like it's going to be a hard read. It's fine to hear his take on things but it's just seems like it will have sulking tone from cover to cover.

[SouBeachTalents]

I have no problem with Pippen speaking his mind, but I don't get why he's so surprised at how the Last Dance turned out. Jordan's been idolized like this for over 30 years, why would he have expected this to be any different? ESPN's more guilty of athlete/celebrity worship than any media outlet out there.

[CurryOverLebron]

Except Michael was determined to prove to the current generation of fans that he was larger-than-life during his day—and still larger than LeBron James, the player many consider his equal, if not superior.
3ball not going to like this

[FultzNationRISE]

https://www.gq.com/story/scottie-pippen-unguarded-book-excerpt/amp


Holy SHIT!

:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:


It’s over yall. I dont see how MJ can come back from this.

[Kobe_Bryant]

you idiots can't have your cake and eat it too. if you take pippen for his word then you also have to admit I'm better than Jordan



https://youtu.be/z9r3GcylZnI


so which one is it.. 12be and Jordan's goat. or I'm goat and Jordan's documentary is full of shit

pick one

:lol

[Bronbron23]

https://www.gq.com/story/scottie-pippen-unguarded-book-excerpt/amp

So in a bulls documentary mj talks about 2 major incidences that happened to the team and pip for obvious reasons didn't like that. This is something because why?

[SouBeachTalents]

you idiots can't have your cake and eat it too. if you take pippen for his word then you also have to admit I'm better than Jordan



https://youtu.be/z9r3GcylZnI


so which one is it.. 12be and Jordan's goat. or I'm goat and Jordan's documentary is full of shit

pick one

:lol
Pippen's not the best source for reliable or consistent opinions

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/pippen-lebron-jordan-changing-nba

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/05/scottie-pippen-michael-jordan-lebron-james-debate-opinions-timeline-nba

He changes his mind, often drastically, quite consistently

[97 bulls]

So in a bulls documentary mj talks about 2 major incidences that happened to the team and pip for obvious reasons didn't like that. This is something because why?

It wasn't just those two incidents. It was the lack of acknowledging Jordan's teammates. I still think MJ is the GOAT, but I lost a lot of respect for him.

[Bronbron23]

It wasn't just those two incidents. It was the lack of acknowledging Jordan's teammates. I still think MJ is the GOAT, but I lost a lot of respect for him.

Mj's a jack ass. As a man i've lost respect for him a long time ago but like you i respect his game. Other than when dennis was there Nobody cared about the other teammates that much. Dennis had a whole episode dedicated to him and it wasn't always flattering but he didn't seem to mind. How could je it was the truth. Pip is just salty. He's also apparently a huge jack ass btw.

[8Ball]

Scottie Pippen laying the truth out again.

Michael Jordan is pretty much like his fans, denigrating Scottie Pippen at every chance he can.

Disgusting.


Over the next few weeks, I spoke to a number of my former teammates who each felt as disrespected as I did. How dare Michael treat us that way after everything we did for him and his precious brand. Michael Jordan would never have been Michael Jordan without me, Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, Bill Cartwright, Ron Harper, B. J. Armstrong, Luc Longley, Will Perdue, and Bill Wennington. I apologize to anyone I’ve left out.

[eliteballer]

Pippen is right.

[8Ball]

Meanwhile, Kyrie Irving calls up LeBron to apologize years after they parted ways for being selfish.

Totally different how Jordan treated teammates and LeBron.

This is why LeBron is the GOAT.

[8Ball]

It wasn't just those two incidents. It was the lack of acknowledging Jordan's teammates. I still think MJ is the GOAT, but I lost a lot of respect for him.

Why did Jordan include the 1994 incident in Jordan's documentary when Jordan didn't play in 1994?

[GrayGoat]

LeBron gets teammates paid. MJ made teammates take a pay cut

[tontoz]

One thing that really made Pippen look bad was his own interview about quitting on his team in the playoffs. He said if he had it to do all over again he would do the same thing.

:oldlol:

[GrayGoat]

One thing that really made Pippen look bad was his own interview about quitting on his team in the playoffs. He said if he had it to do all over again he would do the same thing.

:oldlol:
MJ clearly dupped Pippen out of something. Money?

[Axe]

3ball not going to like this
He isn't even a real jordan stan lmao

[Baller789]

One thing that really made Pippen look bad was his own interview about quitting on his team in the playoffs. He said if he had it to do all over again he would do the same thing.

:oldlol:

Yeah. If he didn't say that., He would have had more public sympathy. Instead it made Pip look more like a punk.

[Reggie43]

Scottie Pippen is too old to be this mentally fragile/weak minded even though he does somewhat have a point.

Was really excited for the Last Dance and I thought we would get a more in depth look in that Bulls Pacers series in 98 and what we got is some chopped up stuff to not make Jordan look bad.

They never mentioned Miller suffering a significant ankle sprain that limited his effectiveness, no mention of a freshly injured Miller killing Jordan in the clutch in game 3 while limping all over the court. While they showed a quick clip of Jordan slippping/failing in the clutch in game 6 it was never talked about while Pippens failures were magnified previously in his years without MJ.

[97 bulls]

Mj's a jack ass. As a man i've lost respect for him a long time ago but like you i respect his game. Other than when dennis was there Nobody cared about the other teammates that much. Dennis had a whole episode dedicated to him and it wasn't always flattering but he didn't seem to mind. How could je it was the truth. Pip is just salty. He's also apparently a huge jack ass btw.

I believe Pippen is also a jackass. But in my opinion, he wouldn't dismiss his teammates the way Jordan did. And it's not just Pippen, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Craig Hodges, even Bill Cartwright have publicly voiced their disapproval for the Last Dance.

[97 bulls]

Scottie Pippen is too old to be this mentally fragile/weak minded even though he does somewhat have a point.

Was really excited for the Last Dance and I thought we would get a more in depth look in that Bulls Pacers series in 98 and what we got is some chopped up stuff to not make Jordan look bad.

They never mentioned Miller suffering a significant ankle sprain that limited his effectiveness, no mention of a freshly injured Miller killing Jordan in the clutch in game 3 while limping all over the court. While they showed a quick clip of Jordan slippping/failing in the clutch in game 6 it was never talked about while Pippens failures were magnified previously in his years without MJ.

I don't see why they would mention Miller's issues lol. But why didn't the Last Dance acknowledge that the difference in that Bull/Pacers match-up was Pippen on Mark Jackson? Or really focus on Rodmans record setting rebounding performance in the 96 Finals?

[SATAN]

Wow. MJ and his stans OBLITERATED! :lebronamazed:

[Reggie43]

I don't see why they would mention Miller's issues lol. But why didn't the Last Dance acknowledge that the difference in that Bull/Pacers match-up was Pippen on Mark Jackson? Or really focus on Rodmans record setting rebounding performance in the 96 Finals?

They were talking about that 1998 series and you dont think the best player on the other team getting injured is not worth a mention?

Pippen on Mark Jackson was significant but it was hardly the difference lmao. They proved that by going the full 7 games with the bulls despite their main playmaker getting contained and their best player getting injured. That was a smart veteran laden team with great depth so they just adjusted accordingly.

[Bronbron23]

I believe Pippen is also a jackass. But in my opinion, he wouldn't dismiss his teammates the way Jordan did. And it's not just Pippen, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Craig Hodges, even Bill Cartwright have publicly voiced their disapproval for the Last Dance.

Well mj is an ass and he was the one that had creative control so i'm not surprised. I get those guys being pissed if that's true. They all seem like legit good dudes. Pip on the other hand is dick also so i don't think he should talk but he's trying to sell a book so i get it.

[Baller789]

Meanwhile, Kyrie Irving calls up LeBron to apologize years after they parted ways for being selfish.

Totally different how Jordan treated teammates and LeBron.

This is why LeBron is the GOAT.

Meanwhile SmallBalls inserts Lebron in every Jordan thread. Talk about being insecure :roll:

[bison]

If this excerpt is indicative of the book as a whole, I don’t see how this helps his image. It sounds like he’s sulking. He’s absolutely right to feel hurt by how the Bulls treated him, but at some point he has to be a grown man. If the Bulls franchised treated him so bad from being a scapegoat, to being massively underpaid and underrecognized, why did he stay? Even post retirement he still looked to the bulls to give him a coaching job or front office position and Pax sends him on meaningless scouting reports. Like at what point don’t you just pick up your ball and leave? He has had many opportunities to forge his own career path, both during his playing years and post playing years. Now he finally speaks its to whine and complain about the past 30 years.

[bison]

Also lol at anyone thinking this stains MJ in anyway. MJ, a ruthless competitor and ego maniac?? Oh no say it ain’t so!! Next you’re gonna tell me he was a gambling boozehound :cry:

[8Ball]

Of course this stains MJ.

His own teammates think he is a piece of shit.

MJ defenders say "MJ is a piece of shit but...."


There is no defense.

[ImKobe]

Scottie Pippen laying the truth out again.

Michael Jordan is pretty much like his fans, denigrating Scottie Pippen at every chance he can.

Disgusting.

Truth hurts. There were many players better than Scottie, Grant etc in the league but there was only one MJ. Let's not forget that Pippen was the asshole who quit on his team when Phil didn't give him the last shot in the Knicks series..


Of course this stains MJ.

His own teammates think he is a piece of shit.

MJ defenders say "MJ is a piece of shit but...."


There is no defense.

He carried those teams hard in the Playoffs by constantly outscoring his 2nd option by 20 points and closing almost every big game for them..

[8Ball]

Meanwhile SmallBalls inserts Lebron in every Jordan thread. Talk about being insecure :roll:

Bron is a better teammate, Jordan is a garbage teammate as per Scottie Pippen.

This is why Bron is the GOAT. More evidence.

[SouBeachTalents]

Truth hurts. There were many players better than Scottie, Grant etc in the league but there was only one MJ.



He carried those teams hard in the Playoffs by constantly outscoring his 2nd option by 20 points and closing almost every big game for them..
Many players better than Pippen? Nah. He was a top 10 player, or close to it, from '91-'98.

[ImKobe]

Bron is a better teammate, Jordan is a garbage teammate as per Scottie Pippen.

This is why Bron is the GOAT. More evidence.

MJ goes hard on his teammates and turns them into winners while Lebron just trades them away.

[ImKobe]

Many players better than Pippen? Nah. He was a top 10 player, or close to it, from '91-'98.

He was a top 10 player in the league when MJ was retired & Barkley was injured in '94-'95 but not any other year, certainly not in '96-'98. He was replaceable, MJ wasn't.

[SouBeachTalents]

He was a top 10 player in the league when MJ was retired & Barkley was injured in '94-'95 but not any other year, certainly not in '96-'98. He was replaceable, MJ wasn't.
Pippen wasn't a top 10 player from '91-'93? What :oldlol: And he'd at minimum be in top 10 contention from '96-'98.

[ImKobe]

Pippen wasn't a top 10 player from '91-'93? What :oldlol: And he'd at minimum be in top 10 contention from '96-'98.

He made 2nd and 3rd team All-NBA in the '91-'93 stretch and was horrible in the '93 Playoffs.. All-NBA is a poor way of viewing this anyway with how stacked the Center position was. He was NOT top 10 from '96-'98, I'm not sure what the hell you're smoking. There's a small argument for '96 but not after how bad he was in the Playoffs and he got worse from then on. A top 10 player does not average 17.6 ppg on 40.8%FG/50%TS for the playoffs like Pippen did from '96-'98, his '93 run was mediocre as well. You add on Duncan, Penny and Grant Hill in that 2nd 3-Peat stretch too, he was not better than those guys.

'91 was his Playoffs peak and he definitely wasn't a top 10 player that year with Magic still in his prime too.

[TheGoatest]

Sounds like a bitter old man.

Agree. Jordan in The Last Dance in a nut shell:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/304/old.jpg

Just replace "cloud" with "LeBron". It's amazing how someone as old as Jordan could be so immature, insecure and inconsiderate.

[Soundwave]

Pippen has a book to sell and no one would buy it if he doesn't generate controversy so it is what it is. Bringing up Jordan is the only way to sell the book, otherwise no one would buy it.

Telling though that Kukoc chose Jordan and Phil Jackson to induct him into the hall of the fame a few months ago, and left Scottie out.

So which is it again? Kukoc and teammates are so mad at Jordan because of a documentary, but yet Kukoc would rather have Jordan there to bring him into the Hall of Fame over Pippen? That sure adds up.

Pippen should also shut the **** up about his contracts on the Bulls. He signed the damn contract, even Reinsdorf told him not to sign it, stop blaming everyone else. You are responsible for that buddy, no one else. Jordan was ridiculously underpaid for years by the Bulls also. Enough crying about this. He was able to coast on the glory of the Bulls years to be fatly overpaid on the Blazers and Rockets towards the end of his career, so it evened out.

He must be the only guy who made $100 million+ in NBA salary during his career and still cries about it. The Bulls even paid him a generous $10+ million in his final two seasons where he basically did not play and was completely washed. But he's still bitter.

[Bawkish]

Pip whining just like a bitter old man

He got flak for the Kukoc fiasco and the pre season surgery then blames the doc for releasing it.

[TheGoatest]

He was a top 10 player in the league when MJ was retired & Barkley was injured in '94-'95 but not any other year, certainly not in '96-'98. He was replaceable, MJ wasn't.

"Top 10"? :roll:
Well, yeah. A guy who finishes 3rd in MVP voting certainly is top 10. Seems like a rather weird way to describe him, like saying Elon Musk is one of the thousand richest people in the world.
Pippen was universally recognized as the second best perimeter player of the 90s. That's a fact. But if you think it's amazing for not that good of a player as Pippen to be recognized as the second best perimeter player of the 90s, then that tells you everything about Jordan's competition at the perimeter throughout the 90s.

It never ceases to amaze me just how all over Pip's nuts Jordan was during his playing days, yet how disrespectful he is since they retired.

https://images4.imagebam.com/2a/d0/96/ME4PFX8_o.png

[Axe]

Agree. Jordan in The Last Dance in a nut shell:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/304/old.jpg

Just replace "cloud" with "LeBron". It's amazing how someone as old as Jordan could be so immature, insecure and inconsiderate.
Just like the exact same way you are whenever you're talking about him.

[ImKobe]

"Top 10"? :roll:
Well, yeah. A guy who finishes 3rd in MVP voting certainly is top 10. Seems like a rather weird way to describe him, like saying Elon Musk is one of the thousand richest people in the world.
Pippen was universally recognized as the second best perimeter player of the 90s. That's a fact. But if you think it's amazing for not that good of a player as Pippen to be recognized as the second best perimeter player of the 90s, then that tells you everything about Jordan's competition at the perimeter throughout the 90s.

It never ceases to amaze me just how all over Pip's nuts Jordan was during his playing days, yet how disrespectful he is since they retired.

https://images4.imagebam.com/2a/d0/96/ME4PFX8_o.png

Are you really this dense? Like I said, Pippen wasn't top 10 in 91-93 or 96-98, he was in top 10 when MJ was retired and Barkley was injured in '94, '95 but outside of that he wasn't that good and the numbers back it up.

[TheGoatest]

Are you really this dense? Like I said, Pippen wasn't top 10 in 91-93 or 96-98, he was in top 10 when MJ was retired and Barkley was injured in '94, '95 but outside of that he wasn't that good and the numbers back it up.

Like everyone else said during Pippen's actual playing days, he was a top 5 player during the years he played with Jordan, when he sacrificed his stats. If you followed the NBA during that period, you would often hear the phrase "Jordan and Pippen are the two best players in the league".
In the period he didn't play with Jordan though, Hakeem was the only player you could say was hands down better than Pippen.

[ImKobe]

Like everyone else said during Pippen's actual playing days, he was a top 5 player during the years he played with Jordan, when he sacrificed his stats. If you followed the NBA during that period, you would often hear the phrase "Jordan and Pippen are the two best players in the league".
In the period he didn't play with Jordan though, Hakeem was the only player you could say was hands down better than Pippen.

He wasn't...

MJ, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone... he was never a top 5 player you dumb ****.

[TheGoatest]

He wasn't...

MJ, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone... he was never a top 5 player you dumb ****.

He was....

Hakeem, nobody else... He was definitely a top 5 player you dumb ****.

[Cyrus334]

I already knew Jordan was a douche bag and a terrible team mate. What I didn't know was that Scottie was such a salty bitter old man who clearly can't let the past go.

[BigShotBob]

He was....

Hakeem, nobody else... He was definitely a top 5 player you dumb ****.

"Nobody else"

Go to bed kid

[TheGoatest]

"Nobody else"

Go to bed kid

Well, arguably a rookie Chuck Person. But definitely nobody else besides him.

[Baller789]

Bran stans like to pump up Pip to diminish Mike.

But the truth is Pip was never really top 5 on a consistent basis. Bigs would always be more valuable than him. Heck he wasn't even the best SF when Grant Hill was playing.

[Axe]

Bran stans like to pump up Pip to diminish Mike.

But the truth is Pip was never really top 5 on a consistent basis. Bigs would always be more valuable than him. Heck he wasn't even the best SF when Grant Hill was playing.
But mike went 1-9 in the postseason without him. Also never took a team to 50+ wins in the rs without him. :cry:

[TheGoatest]

Bran stans like to pump up Pip to diminish Mike.

But the truth is Pip was never really top 5 on a consistent basis. Bigs would always be more valuable than him. Heck he wasn't even the best SF when Grant Hill was playing.

Jordan's career without Pip diminishes Michael "Orlando McGrady/Rockets Harden prior to Pippen" Jordan.

And yeah, Grant Hill at his peak was better than Pippen individually. Except he was better than Jordan as well:

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTgwMTMyNzAyNDg1MjkyMTU0/hill.jpg

Hill could get by Jordan on his speed, and he had two extra inches of height over Jordan as a bonus to play with:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFOX-FmMXU

[SATAN]

MJ diminished Pip. That's why you guys only say he was top 5 when MJ wasn't there. Does this really have to be pointed out?

[3ba11]

Jordan's teammates were treated wonderfully in the documentary because they were literally bums that wouldn't make most other teams, aka paxson or kerr, while guys like cartwright or rodman were completely washed for most of the titles that MJ won them - literally scoring 4 points and getting 7 rebounds AS A STANDARD

After MJ and Pippen, the Bulls were literally nothing and got tremendously outproduced in every single series at the 3 thru 12 spots, and about half the time at the #2 spot (pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd leading scorer in 1/3 of his series as a Bull, but was outplayed more than half the time when his worst-ever efficiency is considered).

Kukoc, Paxson, Kerr = slow bums that played zero defense

Cartwright, Longley - zero rim protection or rebounding, literally.. these centers didn't block shots or rebound or score - wastes of space

BJ Armstrong = George Hill-caliber


jordan was the only dominant player on the team and the only player that COULD dominate - everyone was just a glorified role player that never dominated or played great.. Pippen's peak raw production was a low bar reached by bums like Larry Hughes, Robert Horry, Jeff Green, or JR Smith, aka literally everyone

[Axe]

Jordan's teammates were treated wonderfully in the documentary because they were literally bums that wouldn't make most other teams, aka paxson or kerr, while guys like cartwright or rodman were completely washed for most of the titles that MJ won them - literally scoring 4 points and getting 7 rebounds AS A STANDARD

After MJ and Pippen, the Bulls were literally nothing and got tremendously outproduced in every single series at the 3 thru 12 spots, and about half the time at the #2 spot (pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd leading scorer in 1/3 of his series as a Bull, but was outplayed more than half the time when his worst-ever efficiency is considered).

Kukoc, Paxson, Kerr = slow bums that played zero defense

Cartwright, Longley - zero rim protection or rebounding, literally.. these centers didn't block shots or rebound or score - wastes of space

BJ Armstrong = George Hill-caliber


jordan was the only dominant player on the team and the only player that COULD dominate - everyone was just a glorified role player that never dominated or played great.. Pippen's peak raw production was a low bar reached by bums like Larry Hughes, Robert Horry, Jeff Green, or JR Smith, aka literally everyone
2/7 and 6-16

[3ba11]

2/7 and 6-16


When I say that Pippen's peak raw production was a low bar reached by literally everyone - THAT'S A FACT

Let that sink in - the guy isn't top 75 because only dominant offensive players are

the stats don't lie - he sucked and for MJ to win 6 chips with a sidekick that averaged 19.0 on 42% in the Finals, or 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs is easily GOAT, and his teammates deserve no credit - they never dominated.. who gives a shit that Kerr hit a couple threes - so did JR Smith and he hit a lot more and was a far better player but he won't get any credit yet Kerr gets tons... MJ truly elevated these bums

[Axe]

When I say that Pippen's peak raw production was a low bar reached by literally everyone - THAT'S A FACT

Let that sink in - the guy isn't top 75 because only dominant offensive players are

the stats don't lie - he sucked and for MJ to win 6 chips with a sidekick that averaged 19.0 on 42% in the Finals, or 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs is easily GOAT, and his teammates deserve no credit - they never dominated.. who gives a shit that Kerr hit a couple threes - so did JR Smith and he hit a lot more and was a far better player but he won't get any credit yet Kerr gets tons... MJ truly elevated these bums
No triangle, no miracle.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan's teammates were treated wonderfully in the documentary because they were literally bums that wouldn't make most other teams
:roll:

[3ba11]

:roll:


You guys act like Jordan trashed his teammates in the doc... What was Jordan supposed to do?... You wanted him to highlight the time that Pippen took over down the stretch of the Finals and pulled it out?.... You wanted him to show the game where Cartwright and Horace Grant both went off and carried the Bulls?.... THAT SHIT NEVER HAPPENED - these guys were BUMS - ordinary players with ordinary role player performance that were simply lucky to latch onto the Bulls/MJ

[Axe]

You guys act like Jordan trashed his teammates in the doc... What was Jordan supposed to do?... You wanted him to highlight the time that Pippen took over down the stretch of the Finals and pulled it out?.... You wanted him to show the game where Cartwright and Horace Grant both went off and carried the Bulls?.... THAT SHIT NEVER HAPPENED - these guys were BUMS - ordinary players with ordinary role player performance that were simply lucky to latch onto the Bulls/MJ
No triangle, no miracle.

[3ba11]

No triangle, no miracle.


The triangle had been around for 50 years and used countless times but it never won shit without the MJ/Kobe skillset to anchor it and consistently close possession throughout the game

[SouBeachTalents]

You guys act like Jordan trashed his teammates in the doc... What was Jordan supposed to do?... You wanted him to highlight the time that Pippen took over down the stretch of the Finals and pulled it out?.... You wanted him to show the game where Cartwright and Horace Grant both went off and carried the Bulls?.... THAT SHIT NEVER HAPPENED - these guys were BUMS - ordinary players with ordinary role player performance that were simply lucky to latch onto the Bulls/MJ
It's pretty impressive that these bunch of bums won 55 games without Jordan. Well, either impressive or indicative of how weak that era was.

[RRR3]

It's pretty impressive that these bunch of bums won 55 games without Jordan. Well, either impressive or indicative of how weak that era was.
https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg

[3ba11]

It's pretty impressive that these bunch of bums won 55 games without Jordan. Well, either impressive or indicative of how weak that era was.


55 wins while pursuing a 4-peat is an underachievement

And I guess you guys don't understand brand of ball and therefore literally don't understand basketball.. You really shouldn't watch - you're wasting your time

[RRR3]

55 wins while pursuing a 4-peat is an underachievement

And I guess you guys don't understand brand of ball and therefore literally don't understand basketball.. You really shouldn't watch - you're wasting your time
https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg

[3ba11]

Imagine if a coach came along and introduced an antiquated offense that never won, but Lebron invented the footwork needed to produce a lot in the offense and win with it.

That's what Jordan did with the triangle - it's his offense because he's the only guy that won with it (and his clone)

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg


And?

[RRR3]

And?
Ranking Kobe over Jordan is something a braindead person would do. You’re braindead eh?

[3ba11]

Ranking Kobe over Jordan is something a braindead person would do. You’re braindead eh?


We'll never know for sure who's better because Kobe's mental makeup transcended any era - he was like a God

[Axe]

The triangle had been around for 50 years and used countless times but it never won shit without the MJ/Kobe skillset to anchor it and consistently close possession throughout the game
No triangle, no miracle.

[RRR3]

We'll never know for sure who's better because Kobe's mental makeup transcended any era - he was like a God
Ok I guess everything you said about Jordan is bullshit then. Since his stats don’t matter (because they’re vastly superior to Kobe’s).

[Axe]

We'll never know for sure who's better because Kobe's mental makeup transcended any era - he was like a God
No phil, no kill.

[TheGoatest]

When I say that Pippen's peak raw production was a low bar reached by literally everyone - THAT'S A FACT


When I say that:

Jordan played without Pippen on two separate occasions in his career (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)
Pippen played without Jordan on two separate occasions in his career (1993-1995 and 1999-2004)

and Pippen came closer to winning a championship in EACH of those separate occasions without Jordan than Jordan did in EITHER of his occasions without Pippen - THAT'S A FACT

[3ba11]

Ok I guess everything you said about Jordan is bullshit then. Since his stats don’t matter (because they’re vastly superior to Kobe’s).


Kobe has Jordan's off-ball game and elite jumpshooting skill, so he has great teammate fits and team strategy (ball movement) just like Jordan's teams.. and therefore great team ceilings/Finals records.

But okay, gun to my head - I choose Jordan pretty easily... But I don't mind someone picking Kobe.. I won't disagree unless they get out of line and start going to far with it and disparaging or disprespecting the GOAT.. Then I have to check em.. But I always respect the late, great goat kobe

[RRR3]

When I say that:

Jordan played without Pippen on two separate occasions in his career (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)
Pippen played without Jordan on two separate occasions in his career (1993-1995 and 1999-2004)

and Pippen came closer to winning a championship in EACH of those separate occasions without Jordan than Jordan did in EITHER of his occasions without Pippen - THAT'S A FACT
Stop arguing about Jordan. He wants you to do that since he actually has ammunition there.

His real GOAT is Kobe as detailed on the previous page. He just uses Jordan cuz he’s scared to compare Kobe to the big boys.

[Axe]

When I say that:

Jordan played without Pippen on two separate occasions in his career (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)
Pippen played without Jordan on two separate occasions in his career (1993-1995 and 1999-2004)

and Pippen came closer to winning a championship in EACH of those separate occasions without Jordan than Jordan did in EITHER of his occasions without Pippen - THAT'S A FACT
He never realizes that lmfao

[RRR3]

Kobe has Jordan's off-ball game and elite jumpshooting skill, so he has great teammate fits and team strategy (ball movement) just like Jordan's teams

Gun to my head - I choose Jordan pretty easily... But I don't mind someone picking Kobe.. I won't disagree unless they get out of line and start going to far with it and disparaging or disprespecting the GOAT.. Then I have to check em
But you yourself already chose Kobe

https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg

[3ba11]

When I say that:

Jordan played without Pippen on two separate occasions in his career (1984-1987 and 2001-2003)
Pippen played without Jordan on two separate occasions in his career (1993-1995 and 1999-2004)

and Pippen came closer to winning a championship in EACH of those separate occasions without Jordan than Jordan did in EITHER of his occasions without Pippen - THAT'S A FACT


The first few years of a player's career is when they lose - Durant, Lebron, Giannis, and Curry were all massive losers in their first few years - so who cares what happened to Jordan in his first few years

Accordingly, you're weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only years without Pippen are the time that everyone loses

Pippen is among the lowest-producing sidekicks that ever won, and Jordan won most of those titles IN SPITE of Pippen's poor play - we can go down the line of the many series that he wet the bed and Jordan had to carry the load - this was most of Pippen's playoff career except 1991... but see the 1992 ECSF where Pippen caused loss except MJ saved the day

[Axe]

The first few years of a player's career is when they lose - Durant, Lebron, Giannis, and Curry were all massive losers in their first few years - so who cares what happened to Jordan in his first few years

Accordingly, you're weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only years without Pippen are the time that everyone loses
You called giannis a pippen-calibre type of player to being one of the goats or something like that. You aren't consistent. You're insane.

[3ba11]

You called giannis a pippen-calibre type of player to being one of the goats or something like that. You aren't consistent. You're insane.


You guys are knocking me for not being right 100% of the time - so I got Giannis wrong... so what... Now I have him in my top 10 and you don't because you don't care if a player wins by stacking the deck, as opposed to FIGURING IT OUT - players that figured out how to win are better than players that just learned how to team-hop

[RRR3]

But you yourself already chose Kobe

https://i.ibb.co/SQfBMCs/3839-F95-D-A44-B-495-C-9-DB0-BE98-D87-A3-A98.jpg
3ball?

[3ba11]

3ball?


Kobe will always be a goat to me.. Otoh, guys that can't even take contested jumpshots shouldn't even be in the HOF, like Lebron... your guy is a fraud that can't take contested jumpers, yet you think he compares to Kobe... He doesn't compare

[RRR3]

Kobe will always be a goat to me.. Otoh, guys that can't even take contested jumpshots shouldn't even be in the HOF, like Lebron... your guy is a fraud that can't take contested jumpers, yet you think he compares to Kobe... He doesn't compare
So Kobe is the best ever? Better than Jordan? That’s what you’re going with? You said it yourself. Stop avoiding it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe will always be a goat to me.. Otoh, guys that can't even take contested jumpshots shouldn't even be in the HOF, like Lebron... your guy is a fraud that can't take contested jumpers, yet you think he compares to Kobe... He doesn't compare
Yet apparently they'll be in your top 5

[3ba11]

So Kobe is the best ever? Better than Jordan? That’s what you’re going with? You said it yourself. Stop avoiding it.


Jordan is far better but I like to say Kobe is goat sometimes because he's passed away and he's #2 anyway

[3ba11]

Yet apparently they'll be in your top 5


I'm just giving a fresh take that gets us closer to accurate rankings - the historical record shows that centers and ball-dominators need far more help than scorers/closers (Kobe, MJ, Kawhi), so that's a factor that should be considered... And why are guys that only learned to team-hop prioritized over guys that learned to win (organic)?.. Seems like it should be the other way around..

Based on these key issues, my top 5 de-prioritizes team-hoppers, centers and ball-dominators, which leaves MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Giannis... Based on my criteria, who else would go in there other than those guys?

[TheGoatest]

The first few years of a player's career is when they lose - Durant, Lebron, Giannis, and Curry were all massive losers in their first few years - so who cares what happened to Jordan in his first few years

Accordingly, you're weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only years without Pippen are the time that everyone loses

Pippen is among the lowest-producing sidekicks that ever won, and Jordan won most of those titles IN SPITE of Pippen's poor play - we can go down the line of the many series that he wet the bed and Jordan had to carry the load - this was most of Pippen's playoff career except 1991... but see the 1992 ECSF where Pippen caused loss except MJ saved the day

LeBron at the age of 22 led the weakest supporting cast that ever stepped onto a floor with an "NBA Finals" logo on it.
Jordan at the age of 24 "led" the Bulls to a lower seeding than an all-star-less team whose best player by far was a rookie Chuck Person.

Also, what happened with Magic, Duncan, Bird, Kareem in their first years, winning-wise?

The only coincidence is the Sonics being stupid enough to trade for Olden Polynice, thereby preventing Jordan's career from continuing to be the equivalent of Orlando McGrady's and Rockets Harden's.

[RRR3]

Jordan is far better but I like to say Kobe is goat sometimes because he's passed away and he's #2 anyway
So you like to say someone you don’t think is GOAT is GOAT. So by your own admission your rankings mean nothing as you admit to being disingenuous with them.

[3ba11]

So you like to say someone you don’t think is GOAT is GOAT. So by your own admission your rankings mean nothing as you admit to being disingenuous with them.


It's respect for the dead and his greatness. That is all... I have no problem flip-flopping MJ and his clone once in a while for kicks.

if i had kobe at #7 or something, then it wouldn't make sense.. but to flip-flop 1 & 2 once in a while for kicks and to shout out the late Kobe, it's all good

[RRR3]

It's respect for the dead and his greatness. That is all... I have no problem flip-flopping MJ and his clone once in a while for kicks.

if i had kobe at #7 or something, then it wouldn't make sense.. but to flip-flop them once in a while for kicks and to shout out Kobe, it's all good
You had Kobe at 9th a little over a year ago, so in your own words, you make no sense. :applause:



https://i.ibb.co/TcbyRnQ/CEB055-F0-E961-4-C0-B-81-B2-CB3-BB0-E487-BA.jpg

[RRR3]

You had Kobe at 9th a little over a year ago, so in your own words, you make no sense. :applause:



https://i.ibb.co/TcbyRnQ/CEB055-F0-E961-4-C0-B-81-B2-CB3-BB0-E487-BA.jpg
:roll:

He can’t explain this. Acknowledging it would be him admitting he makes no sense (his own words)

[3ba11]

You had Kobe at 9th a little over a year ago, so in your own words, you make no sense. :applause:



https://i.ibb.co/TcbyRnQ/CEB055-F0-E961-4-C0-B-81-B2-CB3-BB0-E487-BA.jpg


Yes that was before I realized how much help centers need - they have predictable, rigid style just like ball-dominators and need a ton of help - they can't win with just a low-scoring sidekick or a team of solid players (no real stars or huge producers)... centers or ball-dominators need teammates than DOMINATE and are complete juggernauts

Maybe I'll come back around and move guys like Kareem, Russell, or Shaq that are only good at 1 shot back up the rankings... but i doubt it

[RRR3]

Yes that was before I realized how much help centers need - they have predictable, rigid style just like ball-dominators and need a ton of help - they can't win with just a low-scoring sidekick or a team of solid players (no real stars or huge producers)... centers or ball-dominators need teammates than DOMINATE and are complete juggernauts

Maybe I'll come back around and move guys like Kareem, Russell, or Shaq that are only good at 1 shot back up the rankings... but i doubt it
Nope. Your own words “if I had Kobe at like 7 [and moved him up to the top] then it wouldn’t make sense”. You admit you make no sense. You said it yourself.

[3ba11]

Nope. Your own words “if I had Kobe at like 7 [and moved him up to the top] then it wouldn’t make sense”. You admit you make no sense. You said it yourself.


I'm not saying everyone has to learn and improve like I have.

If you want to stick to your old rankings that value guys who learned to team-hop rather than guys that learned to win (organic) - go for it - never change your rankings.

If you want to stick to your old rankings that value rigid styles like centers and ball-dominators who need a ton of help - go for it - never change your rankings.

But I've learned to de-prioritize team-hoppers, centers and ball-dominators.. and i feel pretty good about this new insight.

[RRR3]

I'm not saying everyone has to learn and improve like I have.

If you want to stick to your old rankings that value guys who learned to team-hop and don't value guys that learned to win - go for it - never change your rankings.

If you want to stick to your old rankings that value rigid styles like centers and ball-dominators that need a ton of help - go for it - never change your rankings.
But here BEFORE you supposedly learned “not to overvalue centers” you have Kobe OVER Shaq and Kareem. Then a year later your list was completely scrambled. And now it’s completely scrambled again. Your lists are literally randomized.

https://i.ibb.co/2N39sZH/4-BDA5-A40-372-B-4-EF1-A5-CD-1-E3673946-B39.jpg

[3ba11]

But here BEFORE you supposedly learned “not to overvalue centers” you have Kobe OVER Shaq and Kareem. Then a year later your list was completely scrambled. And now it’s completely scrambled again. Your lists are literally randomized.

https://i.ibb.co/2N39sZH/4-BDA5-A40-372-B-4-EF1-A5-CD-1-E3673946-B39.jpg


Nowhere in those lists do I list my rational - I was just brainwashed like you guys and going with what the media said.... aka "hurrrr durrrr... every list must have kareem... and shaq - he was really good.... oh, and how can you not include Magic!!!"

That's how I used to think and it's shameful.

But now I actually know what I'm looking for in a top 5 player - they must know how to win (organic)... and they can't need a ton of help like centers and ball-dominators do..

so now I'm smarter than the same ol' propoganda the media tries to shove down everyone's throat

[SouBeachTalents]

Nowhere in those lists do I list my rational - I was just brainwashed like you guys and going with what the media said.... aka "hurrrr durrrr... every list must have kareem... and shaq - he was really good.... oh, and how can you not include Magic!!!"

That's how I used to think and it's shameful.

But now I actually know what I'm looking for in a top 5 player - they must know how to win (organic)... and they can't need a ton of help like centers and ball-dominators do..

so now I'm smarter than the rankings the media tries to shove down my throat
But you just said like a week ago KD was a top 5 player :lol

[3ba11]

But you just said like 3 days ago KD was a top 5 player :lol


That was a brief mistake because I forgot he was a team-hopper too... I tend to give him a pass because he was just responding to the unfairness of Lebron's super-teams... But he still team-hopped and therefore never learned how to win (organic).. so it's still a big knock on him

[SouBeachTalents]

That was a brief mistake because I forgot he was a team-hopper too... I tend to give him a pass because he was just responding to the unfairness of Lebron's super-teams... But he still team-hopped and therefore never learned how to win (organic).. so it's still a big knock on him
So when analyzing these players you forgot Durant went to Golden State?

[SATAN]

RRR3 absolutely destroying 3bayless itt

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5fa11adfa1bac6ccd88747a831d6e985/tumblr_mn38qw3StF1s852lfo3_500.gif

[RRR3]

Nowhere in those lists do I list my rational - I was just brainwashed like you guys and going with what the media said.... aka "hurrrr durrrr... every list must have kareem... and shaq - he was really good.... oh, and how can you not include Magic!!!"

That's how I used to think and it's shameful.

But now I actually know what I'm looking for in a top 5 player - they must know how to win (organic)... and they can't need a ton of help like centers and ball-dominators do..

so now I'm smarter than the same ol' propoganda the media tries to shove down everyone's throat
Kareem and Shaq are not in your top 5 on that list. Are you illiterate?

[RRR3]

RRR3 absolutely destroying 3bayless itt

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5fa11adfa1bac6ccd88747a831d6e985/tumblr_mn38qw3StF1s852lfo3_500.gif
Wait till tomorrow when I make a thread of all his top 10 lists that I could find (I know for a fact I missed a bunch too lol).

[3ba11]

Kareem and Shaq are not in your top 5 on that list. Are you illiterate?


Shaq had 1 seeds with Penny, Kobe, Wade and Lebron - that's the most help anyone's ever had and he should've won every year, yet he was swept and ragdolled by Stockton numerous times, while Hakeem and the 04' Pistons also ragdolled him.. Why reward guys that are constantly getting ragdolled like Shaq or Lebron?... Makes no sense...

Meanwhile, Kareem needed even more help - no one played with more all-stars or HOF's except Russell (another center)

[3ba11]

RRR3 absolutely destroying 3bayless itt

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5fa11adfa1bac6ccd88747a831d6e985/tumblr_mn38qw3StF1s852lfo3_500.gif


I'm up 40 on RRR3 right now... it's a blowout

had him spinning in circles regarding Lebron's 2013 Finals, where the Heat didn't win with him on the floor (zero plus/minus and negative net rating)... he really had a hard time with this fact when comparing it to Kobe's Finals wins

[tpols]

If this excerpt is indicative of the book as a whole, I don’t see how this helps his image. It sounds like he’s sulking. He’s absolutely right to feel hurt by how the Bulls treated him, but at some point he has to be a grown man. If the Bulls franchised treated him so bad from being a scapegoat, to being massively underpaid and underrecognized, why did he stay? Even post retirement he still looked to the bulls to give him a coaching job or front office position and Pax sends him on meaningless scouting reports. Like at what point don’t you just pick up your ball and leave? He has had many opportunities to forge his own career path, both during his playing years and post playing years. Now he finally speaks its to whine and complain about the past 30 years.

Scottie sounds like a scorned lover or something. Like he had a great marriage for a little while and then it ended, and now 20+ years later he's still bitterly lamenting over it. Definitely the woman in this situation. :lol Men move on quicker.

[97 bulls]

RRR3 absolutely destroying 3bayless itt

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5fa11adfa1bac6ccd88747a831d6e985/tumblr_mn38qw3StF1s852lfo3_500.gif

Lol

[97 bulls]

Reading these last few pages shows that 3balk has absolutely no credibility what so ever.

[97 bulls]

I'm up 40 on RRR3 right now... it's a blowout

had him spinning in circles regarding Lebron's 2013 Finals, where the Heat didn't win with him on the floor (zero plus/minus and negative net rating)... he really had a hard time with this fact when comparing it to Kobe's Finals wins

Bro. Are you actually reading this chat? You need to change your name to RR3jr lol

[8Ball]

RRR3 absolutely destroying 3bayless itt

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5fa11adfa1bac6ccd88747a831d6e985/tumblr_mn38qw3StF1s852lfo3_500.gif

:roll:


What a beatdown by RRR3.


https://i.gifer.com/AwHe.gif

[8Ball]

Nowhere in those lists do I list my rational - I was just brainwashed like you guys and going with what the media said.... aka "hurrrr durrrr... every list must have kareem... and shaq - he was really good.... oh, and how can you not include Magic!!!"

That's how I used to think and it's shameful.

But now I actually know what I'm looking for in a top 5 player - they must know how to win (organic)... and they can't need a ton of help like centers and ball-dominators do..

so now I'm smarter than the same ol' propoganda the media tries to shove down everyone's throat

Total dog shit liar.

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

[97 bulls]

The first few years of a player's career is when they lose - Durant, Lebron, Giannis, and Curry were all massive losers in their first few years - so who cares what happened to Jordan in his first few years

Accordingly, you're weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only years without Pippen are the time that everyone loses

Pippen is among the lowest-producing sidekicks that ever won, and Jordan won most of those titles IN SPITE of Pippen's poor play - we can go down the line of the many series that he wet the bed and Jordan had to carry the load - this was most of Pippen's playoff career except 1991... but see the 1992 ECSF where Pippen caused loss except MJ saved the day

But you don't cut Pippen any slack for his first few years in the league.

[Baller789]

But mike went 1-9 in the postseason without him. Also never took a team to 50+ wins in the rs without him. :cry:

Yeah. But that still doesn't make Pip a consistent top 5 player. Olajuwon, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Hill, Malone, are all clearly better than him for the 90's.

[3ba11]

Yeah. But that still doesn't make Pip a consistent top 5 player. Olajuwon, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Hill, Malone, are all clearly better than him for the 90's.


And Penny... Penny's best was a few cuts above 94' Pippen's production rate

Then there's Payton, who was a better passer, scorer, defender and leader than Pippen, and got more All-NBA and all-defense.

Then there are superior talents like Kemp or Derrick Coleman that never had the winning spotlight/accolade from playing with MJ.

The reality is that Pippen was a 16/6/5 player with shit efficiency that was simply inflated by the winning spotlight - 16/6/5 is half of peak Westbrook across the board - so Jordan won 6 titles with half a Westbrook.. He won 2 Finals with Pippen at 15.7 ppg on 34% (defensive role player stats)

[Phoenix]

And Penny... Penny's best was a few cuts above 94' Pippen's production rate

Then there's Payton, who was a better passer, scorer, defender and leader than Pippen, and got more All-NBA and all-defense.

Then there are superior talents like Kemp or Derrick Coleman that never had the winning spotlight/accolade from playing with MJ.

The reality is that Pippen was a 16/6/5 player with shit efficiency that was simply inflated by the winning spotlight - 16/6/5 is half of peak Westbrook across the board - so Jordan won 6 titles with half a Westbrook.. He won 2 Finals with Pippen at 15.7 ppg on 34% (defensive role player stats)

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png


Giannis proved me wrong but not LeFraud - you can't post something like that for Lebron because I'm spot-on about him.

So again, Pippen was inferior to Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Hill and Penny

Then there's Payton, who was a better passer, scorer, defender and leader than Pippen, and got more All-NBA and all-defense.

Then there are superior talents like Kemp or Derrick Coleman that never had the winning spotlight/accolade from playing with MJ.

The reality is that Pippen was a 16/6/5 player with shit efficiency that was simply inflated by the winning spotlight - 16/6/5 is half of peak Westbrook across the board - so Jordan won 6 titles with half a Westbrook.. He won 2 Finals with Pippen at 15.7 ppg on 34% (defensive role player stats)

[Phoenix]

Giannis proved me wrong but not LeFraud - you can't post something like that for Lebron because I'm spot-on about him.

So again, Pippen was inferior to Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Hill and Penny

Then there's Payton, who was a better passer, scorer, defender and leader than Pippen, and got more All-NBA and all-defense.

Then there are superior talents like Kemp or Derrick Coleman that never had the winning spotlight/accolade from playing with MJ.

The reality is that Pippen was a 16/6/5 player with shit efficiency that was simply inflated by the winning spotlight - 16/6/5 is half of peak Westbrook across the board - so Jordan won 6 titles with half a Westbrook.. He won 2 Finals with Pippen at 15.7 ppg on 34% (defensive role player stats)

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png


Yes, we know you're immature

[eliteballer]

Pippin is treated like the Rodney danger field of the nba he’s right to call out Jordan.

[3ba11]

Pippin is treated like the Rodney danger field of the nba he’s right to call out Jordan.


Jordan was called the athlete of the century during the 90's - he was bigger than life, so the doc simply documented that - to pretend otherwise would be misreporting so Pippen is just mad that the doc exposed him as being a supplementary player

Pippen had been enjoying his status as a guy that won 6 rings but the doc showed that he was just 2nd option

[Soundwave]

Pippin is treated like the Rodney danger field of the nba he’s right to call out Jordan.

Pippen gets way more credit that he is due. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars ... other great supplemental players on great teams don't get 1/10th the attention Pippen still does because they didn't play with Jordan.

Other players who played in his era and were as good/better than him like Dominque Wilkins and Clyde Drexler don't as much attention as Pippen still does, why? Because Pippen got to play with Jordan and got famous off that and they didn't. More kids today probably know Pippen over guys like even Hakeem Olajuwon (a far superior player), and it's mainly because Pippen rode the Jordan Gravy Train.

And Scottie repays that by calling his HOF coach a racist and slamming his teammates and still crying about making "only" $100 million in his career (which should be closer to $130-$140 million today factoring in inflation), while taking no responsibility for signing those contracts he disliked so much, taking no responsibility still for abandoning his teammates and refusing to go into a game, taking no responsibility for purposefully not going to have surgery to sabotage the team.

And he's mad because what? A documentary crew dared to bring those things up? Did he think they would just ignore all that? The doc showed Jordan's ruthlessness with teammates and went over his gambling escapades, it went over Rodman's wild and unprofessional conduct and partying, but Pippen expected what? That they wouldn't look at the less flattering parts of his time on the Bulls? He's acting like a baby.

[Axe]

Yeah. But that still doesn't make Pip a consistent top 5 player. Olajuwon, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Hill, Malone, are all clearly better than him for the 90's.
Because players like him are good at being a second option. He doesn't need to be a ballhog to prove how great he is on the floor. But with your limited iq, i don't expect you to understand this.

[Baller789]

Because players like him are good at being a second option. He doesn't need to be a ballhog to prove how great he is on the floor. But with your limited iq, i don't expect you to understand this.

That's not the point dumbass. The argument is that Jordan always had a top 5 player alongside him, wherein the fact of the matter is Pip is a very good Robin at best.

[kawhileonard2]

Pippen gets way more credit that he is due. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars ... other great supplemental players on great teams don't get 1/10th the attention Pippen still does because they didn't play with Jordan.

Other players who played in his era and were as good/better than him like Dominque Wilkins and Clyde Drexler don't as much attention as Pippen still does, why? Because Pippen got to play with Jordan and got famous off that and they didn't. More kids today probably know Pippen over guys like even Hakeem Olajuwon (a far superior player), and it's mainly because Pippen rode the Jordan Gravy Train.

And Scottie repays that by calling his HOF coach a racist and slamming his teammates and still crying about making "only" $100 million in his career (which should be closer to $130-$140 million today factoring in inflation), while taking no responsibility for signing those contracts he disliked so much, taking no responsibility still for abandoning his teammates and refusing to go into a game, taking no responsibility for purposefully not going to have surgery to sabotage the team.

And he's mad because what? A documentary crew dared to bring those things up? Did he think they would just ignore all that? The doc showed Jordan's ruthlessness with teammates and went over his gambling escapades, it went over Rodman's wild and unprofessional conduct and partying, but Pippen expected what? That they wouldn't look at the less flattering parts of his time on the Bulls? He's acting like a baby.

This! And some of them actually won finals mvp as well.

[ImKobe]

That's not the point dumbass. The argument is that Jordan always had a top 5 player alongside him, wherein the fact of the matter is Pip is a very good Robin at best.

Yup, and there's nothing wrong with being a robin. I don't understand why Lebron stans have to pretend as if Pippen was on the level of Hakeem/D-Rob/Barkley/Malone/Shaq.. No one's going to believe you lmao. He was the best sidekick of his era and we can leave it at that.

[hateraid]

Funny how the Last Dance was basically produced by Jordan and people think it's an unbias documentary. Lol. Let an egomaniac produce his own show this is what you get.

[Baller789]

Funny how the Last Dance was basically produced by Jordan and people think it's an unbias documentary. Lol. Let an egomaniac produce his own show this is what you get.

Who here says its unbiased?
Of course it's biased duh.
Ang most common folks are watching that doc because of 1-9 Mike.
No one is tuning in to watch Bill Wennington and Randy Brown.

[Phoenix]

I have to re-watch this show again, when I saw it originally I never got the sense it was being overly harsh on Pippen, but then I was watching the saga unfold back in the 90's so it may have landed differently for a younger fan. Outside of some of the behind the scenes footage I already was aware of all the storylines and didn't learn anything really new.

[LostCause]

Pippen gets way more credit that he is due. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars ... other great supplemental players on great teams don't get 1/10th the attention Pippen still does because they didn't play with Jordan.

Other players who played in his era and were as good/better than him like Dominque Wilkins and Clyde Drexler don't as much attention as Pippen still does, why? Because Pippen got to play with Jordan and got famous off that and they didn't. More kids today probably know Pippen over guys like even Hakeem Olajuwon (a far superior player), and it's mainly because Pippen rode the Jordan Gravy Train.

And Scottie repays that by calling his HOF coach a racist and slamming his teammates and still crying about making "only" $100 million in his career (which should be closer to $130-$140 million today factoring in inflation), while taking no responsibility for signing those contracts he disliked so much, taking no responsibility still for abandoning his teammates and refusing to go into a game, taking no responsibility for purposefully not going to have surgery to sabotage the team.

And he's mad because what? A documentary crew dared to bring those things up? Did he think they would just ignore all that? The doc showed Jordan's ruthlessness with teammates and went over his gambling escapades, it went over Rodman's wild and unprofessional conduct and partying, but Pippen expected what? That they wouldn't look at the less flattering parts of his time on the Bulls? He's acting like a baby.

I’m not sure I agree with Nique being better than Pippen but overall this is a pretty good post. Especially the mentions of lesser known sidekicks though I am curious if Pippen is actually more well-known than Hakeem.

Personally I cut Pippen some slack given how ****ed his personal life has been recently.

[Phoenix]

I’m not sure I agree with Nique being better than Pippen but overall this is a pretty good post. Especially the mentions of lesser known sidekicks though I am curious if Pippen is actually more well-known than Hakeem.

Personally I cut Pippen some slack given how ****ed his personal life has been recently.

He's certainly discussed more than Hakeem. Notice that guys like Hakeem and Duncan mostly get left out of media chatter because everyone focuses on MJ/Lebron/Kobe. This site is a microcosm of that.

[Baller789]

He's certainly discussed more than Hakeem. Notice that guys like Hakeem and Duncan mostly get left out of media chatter because everyone focuses on MJ/Lebron/Kobe. This site is a microcosm of that.

Bigs in general.

Because they are not marketable.

Same reason why ESPN keep rehashing Lebron, KD, Harden and Kyrie to death.

[97 bulls]

Pippen gets way more credit that he is due. Guys like James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars ... other great supplemental players on great teams don't get 1/10th the attention Pippen still does because they didn't play with Jordan.

Other players who played in his era and were as good/better than him like Dominque Wilkins and Clyde Drexler don't as much attention as Pippen still does, why? Because Pippen got to play with Jordan and got famous off that and they didn't. More kids today probably know Pippen over guys like even Hakeem Olajuwon (a far superior player), and it's mainly because Pippen rode the Jordan Gravy Train.

And Scottie repays that by calling his HOF coach a racist and slamming his teammates and still crying about making "only" $100 million in his career (which should be closer to $130-$140 million today factoring in inflation), while taking no responsibility for signing those contracts he disliked so much, taking no responsibility still for abandoning his teammates and refusing to go into a game, taking no responsibility for purposefully not going to have surgery to sabotage the team.

And he's mad because what? A documentary crew dared to bring those things up? Did he think they would just ignore all that? The doc showed Jordan's ruthlessness with teammates and went over his gambling escapades, it went over Rodman's wild and unprofessional conduct and partying, but Pippen expected what? That they wouldn't look at the less flattering parts of his time on the Bulls? He's acting like a baby.

The nerve. The only reason Pippen is discussed so much is because Jordanites like you go out of your way to disparage Scottie Pippen. I'm a huge Pippen fan, I and people like me only respond to stupid ass posts made by your brethren. Let Bird or Magic fans start to say Worthy or McHale were bums and or that those dynasty teams were one man shows like Jordan fan say about the Bulls. You got guys on here say Michael Jordan made Pippen a man, lol. No real man is gonna accept that.

The problem is you guys got so used to Pippen turning the other cheek, and just taking it on the chin. Now that he's offering a rebuttal, your upset. Your upset that your God is being exposed to be an even bigger egotistic narcissist than anybody ever though he was. Jordan is afraid of being passed over by James.

[97 bulls]

A friend of mine brought up a great point that's rarely mentioned with regards to the last dance. Why didn't Jordan make any mention of that bad call Hue Hollins made to bail the Knicks out in game 6? That was a big part of that series. And is always mentioned when that series is discussed. It's known as one of the worst calls ever in the history of the NBA. Why did he fail to mention that play?

[8Ball]

The nerve. The only reason Pippen is discussed so much is because Jordanites like you go out of your way to disparage Scottie Pippen. I'm a huge Pippen fan, I and people like me only respond to stupid ass posts made by your brethren. Let Bird or Magic fans start to say Worthy or McHale were bums and or that those dynasty teams were one man shows like Jordan fan say about the Bulls. You got guys on here say Michael Jordan made Pippen a man, lol. No real man is gonna accept that.

The problem is you guys got so used to Pippen turning the other cheek, and just taking it on the chin. Now that he's offering a rebuttal, your upset. Your upset that your God is being exposed to be an even bigger egotistic narcissist than anybody ever though he was. Jordan is afraid of being passed over by James.

Why do you think people disparage Pippen?

There is only 1 reason why. LeBron is the reason why Pippen gets shat on by Jordananites and by Jordan himself. It's transparent.

Jordan can't personally add to his legacy any more, so the next thing he and his followers do is trash teammates. The only teammate they won't trash is Steve Kerr because he is just some harmless white guy that made 1 three.

[Baller789]

Why do you think people disparage Pippen?

There is only 1 reason why. LeBron is the reason why Pippen gets shat on by Jordananites and by Jordan himself. It's transparent.

Jordan can't personally add to his legacy any more, so the next thing he and his followers do is trash teammates. The only teammate they won't trash is Steve Kerr because he is just some harmless white guy that made 1 three.

Yeah and you and your fellow Lebron brain dead followers do the extreme exact opposite for your own agendas. That's why people can't take you seriously.

Wherein the absolute truth is somewhere in between.

[Airupthere]

Lol the branstans meanwhile fail to see the hippocrisy of anointing pippen as their saint

[8Ball]

Yeah and you and your fellow Lebron brain dead followers do the extreme exact opposite for your own agendas. That's why people can't take you seriously.

Wherein the absolute truth is somewhere in between.

All wrong.


Where is the LeBron teammate of Pippen calibre that spat in LeBron's face like Scottie Pippen just did?

[outofstomach]

A friend of mine brought up a great point that's rarely mentioned with regards to the last dance. Why didn't Jordan make any mention of that bad call Hue Hollins made to bail the Knicks out in game 6? That was a big part of that series. And is always mentioned when that series is discussed. It's known as one of the worst calls ever in the history of the NBA. Why did he fail to mention that play?why are you a virgin?

[8Ball]

Lol the branstans meanwhile fail to see the hippocrisy of anointing pippen as their saint

Look at this Jordan stan getting defensive over Pippen spitting on Jordan's legacy in his new book. The truth from Jordan's ex teammate is very painful right now.

Jordan is so blind by his envy of LeBron that he greenlights his movie on the day of the 2016 parade. Pippen sees through this charade. Pippen sees himself being used by Jordan to prop up Jordan in the Jordan vs LeBron debates.

[Bronbron23]

Are we talking about the same pip that's flipped flop a thousand times on this subject and is currently going through a midlife crisis? Great source guys :roll:

[8Ball]

Are we talking about the same pip that's flipped flop a thousand times on this subject and is currently going through a midlife crisis? Great source guys :roll:

This Pippen:

7× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1992–1999)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1991, 2000)
NBA steals leader (1995)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mu0-iB0e3pA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Axe]

This Pippen:

7× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1992–1999)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1991, 2000)
NBA steals leader (1995)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mu0-iB0e3pA/maxresdefault.jpg
When he had this man in his team, why didn't they lose a single finals series back then?

[Bronbron23]

This Pippen:

7× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1992–1999)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1991, 2000)
NBA steals leader (1995)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mu0-iB0e3pA/maxresdefault.jpg

Ok he was a great player but what's that got to do with the fact that he's a flip flopper going through a midlife crisis?

[2much_knowledge]

The funniest thing about all this, is that IF Mj wanted to use The Last Dance as a tool to remind us he is better than lebron..... well, it worked like a charm lol

Had me convinced since episode one. Good job

[Axe]

The funniest thing about all this, is that IF Mj wanted to use The Last Dance as a tool to remind us he is better than lebron..... well, it worked like a charm lol

Had me convinced since episode one. Good job
10 episodes covering just one whole season is awful lol. It would have been more convincing if it did cover all the years he played for the team that drafted him.

[Baller789]

Ok he was a great player but what's that got to do with the fact that he's a flip flopper going through a midlife crisis?

Are you still surprised they keep deflecting?

[SATAN]

The funniest thing about all this, is that IF Mj wanted to use The Last Dance as a tool to remind us he is better than lebron..... well, it worked like a charm lol

Had me convinced since episode one. Good job

:facepalm

[3ba11]

Why do you think people disparage Pippen?

There is only 1 reason why. LeBron is the reason why Pippen gets shat on by Jordananites and by Jordan himself. It's transparent.

Jordan can't personally add to his legacy any more, so the next thing he and his followers do is trash teammates. The only teammate they won't trash is Steve Kerr because he is just some harmless white guy that made 1 three.


Pippen gets shat on because no one can actually remember him dominating or playing great, so he's always an after thought... "Oh yeah, 6 rings so he must be good"... But there's no memory of him pulling a Wade in the 06' Finals or ever saving the day for the Bulls - so ultimately, he's hard to boost or defend and gets rightfully shat on... His accolades were underserved and not supported by performance

[Baller789]

I'm wrong


I know right.

[97 bulls]

Pippen gets shat on because no one can actually remember him dominating or playing great, so he's always an after thought... "Oh yeah, 6 rings so he must be good"... But there's no memory of him pulling a Wade in the 06' Finals or ever saving the day for the Bulls - so ultimately, he's hard to boost or defend and gets rightfully shat on... His accolades were underserved and not supported by performance
That's because you didn't watch the games. Pippen saved the Bulls in 92 when being down 15 to the Blazers and facing a game 7, scored 12 points and led a Chicago comeback with MJ on the bench (no mention of this in the last dance).

Or when Pippen outplayed Jordan and saved the Bulls in 93 vs the Knicks in the ECF (again this was neglected in the last dance).

Pippen also had 2 clutch blocks vs Charles Smith to save the Bulls during that series (but that also was omitted from the last dance)

Then in 94 and 95, during Jordan's hiatus, Pippen finishes top 10 I'm MVP and DPOY voting I'm both years. A feat that very few players can say they've been able to accomplish. And he became only the 4th player in NBA history to lead his team in the 5 major statistical categories.


In 98, Pippen's defense lead the Bulls to a record setting victory vs the Jazz (once again, that accomplishment was left out of the last dance)

Pippen has has great games and series. These were just a few.

[97 bulls]

I'd also believe that Pippen has had arguably the most clutch defensive moments of any player.

[Baller789]

That's because you didn't watch the games. Pippen saved the Bulls in 92 when being down 15 to the Blazers and facing a game 7, scored 12 points and led a Chicago comeback with MJ on the bench (no mention of this in the last dance).

Or when Pippen outplayed Jordan and saved the Bulls in 93 vs the Knicks in the ECF (again this was neglected in the last dance).

Pippen also had 2 clutch blocks vs Charles Smith to save the Bulls during that series (but that also was omitted from the last dance)

Then in 94 and 95, during Jordan's hiatus, Pippen finishes top 10 I'm MVP and DPOY voting I'm both years. A feat that very few players can say they've been able to accomplish. And he became only the 4th player in NBA history to lead his team in the 5 major statistical categories.


In 98, Pippen's defense lead the Bulls to a record setting victory vs the Jazz (once again, that accomplishment was left out of the last dance)

Pippen has has great games and series. These were just a few.

Well that's what an ATG 2nd option sometimes has to contribute to a dynasty franchise right?

[97 bulls]

Well that's what an ATG 2nd option sometimes has to contribute to a dynasty franchise right?

Right. So why do we have posters in here saying Pippen had no great moments?

[Bronbron23]

Right. So why do we have posters in here saying Pippen had no great moments?

He had alot of important moments but i don't know if he had alot of memorable ones. His defense on magic was memorable imo but alot of people don't care about defense so not sure hiw many others feel that way. His dunk on Ewing was memorable. That's probably one of the greatest playoff facials ever

[tontoz]

That's because you didn't watch the games. Pippen saved the Bulls in 92 when being down 15 to the Blazers and facing a game 7, scored 12 points and led a Chicago comeback with MJ on the bench (no mention of this in the last dance).

.


To be fair Jordan's video Air Time did cover that comeback with Jordan on the bench.

[Baller789]

Right. So why do we have posters in here saying Pippen had no great moments?
Agendas I guess.
Who knows.

[Axe]

Right. So why do we have posters in here saying Pippen had no great moments?
Because the 90s as a whole were a watered-down era? That would translate to boring for some so they had to keep on pointing this out from time to time. :confusedshrug:

[LostCause]

In 98, Pippen's defense lead the Bulls to a record setting victory vs the Jazz (once again, that accomplishment was left out of the last dance)
.

I’m pretty sure this game was covered in the series but if it wasn’t, all it does is serve as evidence that the series will obviously have lots of moments missing from it

You gave credit to Pippen for that game (when it’s really a team accomplishment) but Luc Longley (Who also has a documentary about this time) basically gave credit to Jordan.
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/amp/nba/news/michael-jordan-bulls-shut-down-jazz-biggest-nba-finals-blowout-ever/3vo70wx806si13nwi9bgbb9c2


Longley still remembers who was responsible for leading that charge. You can see vivid examples in the broadcast. With the Bulls up by 14 late in the second quarter, Jordan yelled at Harper after Hornacek made a layup on a blown defensive assignment. Jordan also joked with Pippen about icing their knees in the fourth quarter — but not until the game was in hand. The Bulls led 72-45 after three quarters.
"With [Jordan] as a leader of the team, if it had been anybody else leading that team, we would have gotten up by 25 and cruised home," Longley said. "I personally have never seen any person drive their team as hard as Michael does. Once you're up by 25, most teams back off, not consciously, but there's a tendency for that. You're seeing it right now in the playoffs when teams get up in the second half.
"That's not Michael," he said. "Michael drove us to the 42-point win."

Though here’s my issue with these complaints. What exactly are the expectations here? It should go without saying that MOST moments simply can’t be covered in a docu-series, so what’s the point of pointing out specific instances that aren’t included? Even if say, 50 of the moments you can find that you think should be included, were included, yourself or others would just point out 20 other moments that weren’t

Just doesn’t seem like these are reasonable complaints

[TheGoatest]

I'd also believe that Pippen has had arguably the most clutch defensive moments of any player.

Pippen's clutch defense was effectively the start of the Bulls' championship runs...

Game 1 of the 1991 Finals: Jordan guards Magic, the Bulls lose
Game 2 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 3 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 4 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 5 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win

[Bawkish]

Pippen's clutch defense was effectively the start of the Bulls' championship runs...

Game 1 of the 1991 Finals: Jordan guards Magic, the Bulls lose
Game 2 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 3 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 4 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win
Game 5 of the 1991 Finals: Pippen guards Magic, the Bulls win

Jordan averaged 31.2 points on 56% shooting, 11.4 assists, 6.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals and 1.4 blocks

Yes Pip is the main reason the Bulls win

[SATAN]

Jordan averaged 31.2 points on 56% shooting, 11.4 assists, 6.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals and 1.4 blocks

Yes Pip is the main reason the Bulls win

And Jordan had better averages before Pippen lead him to 6 rings. Of course Pippen is the main reason.

[Bawkish]

And Jordan had better averages before Pippen lead him to 6 rings. Of course Pippen is the main reason.

Looks like this Pippen guy would win titles even without Jordan on his side based on all the heavy lifting he made

[Axe]

If you fools really dislike jordan, then there wouldn't be any obsession on posting his stats frequently or the stats of his sidekick during the time they dominated in a light and soft era back then.

[97 bulls]

I’m pretty sure this game was covered in the series but if it wasn’t, all it does is serve as evidence that the series will obviously have lots of moments missing from it

The series was 10 (((((TEN))))) HOURS long bro. Why? Because this was supposed to be more in depth.


You gave credit to Pippen for that game (when it’s really a team accomplishment) but Luc Longley (Who also has a documentary about this time) basically gave credit to Jordan.
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/amp/nba/news/michael-jordan-bulls-shut-down-jazz-biggest-nba-finals-blowout-ever/3vo70wx806si13nwi9bgbb9c2
I don't care who Longley gave credit to lol. Everyone that saw that game knew that that defensive effort was spearheaded by Pippen. Drawing all those charges, double teaming Stockton, playing center on defense.




Though here’s my issue with these complaints. What exactly are the expectations here? It should go without saying that MOST moments simply can’t be covered in a docu-series, so what’s the point of pointing out specific instances that aren’t included? Even if say, 50 of the moments you can find that you think should be included, were included, yourself or others would just point out 20 other moments that weren’t

Just doesn’t seem like these are reasonable complaints

None of Pippens or the rest of the team's accomplishments were recognized bro. NONE!!!! No mention was made of Rodmans record setting rebounding performance in the 96 Finals either. I mean damn 30 minutes of one episode spotlighted Jordan pitching quarters with that weird looking dude. Lol. Why no mention of how Rodman shut down Malone in 98? No, we get an hour of Jordan gambling quarters with that the "help". Jordan giving any credit to his team was nothing more than lip service. But we did get to see all of Jordan's teammates low points though. Even the players that had nothing to do with the dynasty when Jordan snitched on his teammates as a rookie.

And let's be clear. The Last Dance documentary was supposed to be chronicling the the teams last season together. What we got was Michael Jordan's Playground, Come Fly With Me, and Michael Jordan's Air Time all rolled into one.

[97 bulls]

If you fools really dislike jordan, then there wouldn't be any obsession on posting his stats frequently or the stats of his sidekick during the time they dominated in a light and soft era back then.

The era was definitely not light or soft. Let's not go there.

[3ba11]

The series was 10 (((((TEN))))) HOURS long bro. Why? Because this was supposed to be more in depth.

I don't care who Longley gave credit to lol. Everyone that saw that game knew that that defensive effort was spearheaded by Pippen. Drawing all those charges, double teaming Stockton, playing center on defense.





None of Pippens or the rest of the team's accomplishments were recognized bro. NONE!!!! No mention was made of Rodmans record setting rebounding performance in the 96 Finals either. I mean damn 30 minutes of one episode spotlighted Jordan pitching quarters with that weird looking dude. Lol. Why no mention of how Rodman shut down Malone in 98? No, we get an hour of Jordan gambling quarters with that the "help". Jordan giving any credit to his team was nothing more than lip service. But we did get to see all of Jordan's teammates low points though. Even the players that had nothing to do with the dynasty when Jordan snitched on his teammates as a rookie.

And let's be clear. The Last Dance documentary was supposed to be chronicling the the teams last season together. What we got was Michael Jordan's Playground, Come Fly With Me, and Michael Jordan's Air Time all rolled into one.


There were no teammate accomplishments to document - no one ever dominated or took over - only Jordan - no one averaged well over 20 - only Jordan.. No teammate got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series.

Furthermore, Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and averaged 4/8 in the 98' Finals and the entire 97' Playoffs, so Jordan didn't highlight Rodman because Rodman didn't do shit and was a replaceable role player

[97 bulls]

There were no teammate accomplishments to document - no one ever dominated or took over - only Jordan - no one averaged well over 20 - only Jordan.. No teammate got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series.

Furthermore, Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and averaged 4/8 in the 98' Finals and the entire 97' Playoffs, so Jordan didn't highlight Rodman because Rodman didn't do shit and was a replaceable role player

Wtf are you talking about? Your whole post is a lie other than how many points Jordan scored. I sent you video proof. You don't care. Why even post? You don't care about facts.

[beasted]

Wtf are you talking about? Your whole post is a lie other than how many points Jordan scored. I sent you video proof. You don't care. Why even post? You don't care about facts.
3ball is batshit crazy at times. But I don't see anything wrong with what he said in that post.

No teammate ever took over a series -Fact
No teammate within 10 ppg - Fact
Rodman wasn't a starter in 98 playoffs - Fact

What did he lie about.

[97 bulls]

3ball is batshit crazy at times. But I don't see anything wrong with what he said in that post.

No teammate ever took over a series -Fact
No teammate within 10 ppg - Fact
Rodman wasn't a starter in 98 playoffs - Fact

What did he lie about.


There were no teammate accomplishments to document

This is a lie. Rodman set the record for offensive rebounds in a Finals twice in 96. As an example


no one ever dominated or took over - only Jordan" -
This is a lie. There's a bevy of games in which Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc took over.


Rodman didn't do shit and was a replaceable role player
This is a lie. Rodman shut down Karl Malone in the 98 Finals. I've sent 3ball video evidence of it. There's video of every possession where Rkdman defended Malone make or miss from game 1-5. And that doesn't account the times Malome didn't even take a shot because of Rodmans great defense on him.

Now if you disagree, then your no better than him.

[3ba11]

This is a lie. Rodman set the record for offensive rebounds in a Finals twice in 96. As an example





How does that compare to AD leading the NBA in playoff scoring in 2020 and being the MVP of the WCF against Denver (complete dominance), or averaging 25 in those Finals??

How does that compare to Wade winning the 2006 FMVP or leading the Heat to the 2011 Finals as 1st option, along with 27 ppg in those Finals?

How does that compare to Kyrie destroying the only unanimous league MVP in history and averaging 27 in the Finals?

How does that compare to Chauncey, Parker, Dumars, Iggy or Worthy winning FMVP?

Anyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to achieve 25 ppg or FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals, but Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win with that bum.






This is a lie. There's a bevy of games in which Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc took over.





No... there aren't






This is a lie. Rodman shut down Karl Malone in the 98 Finals. I've sent 3ball video evidence of it. There's video of every possession where Rkdman defended Malone make or miss from game 1-5. And that doesn't account the times Malome didn't even take a shot because of Rodmans great defense on him.

Now if you disagree, then your no better than him.


Malone had a good Finals and Rodman didn't start, so Rodman's spot-duty on Malone amounted to negligible impact - it's regular role player stuff that you're lionizing.. Rodman averaged 3/8 in those Finals.

[Airupthere]

Saw this somewhere:

If blaming someone else for my bad decisions in life was a person, that would be “salty” pippen.

[ImKobe]

Saw this somewhere:

If blaming someone else for my bad decisions in life was a person, that would be “salty” pippen.

Yeah. MJ exposed Pippen for quitting in '94 but most people already knew that, it's stupid to still be salty over that. I thought the documentary was fairly honest, considering it came out of MJ's camp. He could have left out the gambling controversy if he wanted to, I thought that was a bigger deal than whatever Pippen did. Pippen only has himself to blame for not going after the money and letting himself get fleeced when even the team owner told him not to take the contract.

[97 bulls]

Yeah. MJ exposed Pippen for quitting in '94 but most people already knew that, it's stupid to still be salty over that. I thought the documentary was fairly honest, considering it came out of MJ's camp. He could have left out the gambling controversy if he wanted to, I thought that was a bigger deal than whatever Pippen did. Pippen only has himself to blame for not going after the money and letting himself get fleeced when even the team owner told him not to take the contract.

So by your own definition, he didn't expose anything. And Pippen wasn't fleeced. His situation didn't permit him to take a chance and gamble that he would've made it the season without having a big injury. He had had back surgery the year before if I remember correctly. Then you got teams like the Pistons looking to put you out. I don't see how anyone can say he stupid for taking security. If anything, I'd say he was naive in thinking that management and ownership would be willing to renegotiate to pay him his fair market value because of what he did and brought to the Bulls. I believe most teams would've obliged. As it being the right thing to do.

Post like the one I'm responding to show the hatred you Jordan fans have for Pippen.

[97 bulls]

What I've seen in this discussion about Scottie Pippen, is that you guys have been so use to Pippen being the whipping boy, taking the high road, turning the other cheek, that you take exception to him standing up for himself. Especially when it's against your God in Michael Jordan.

Like Pippen said in that quote, he's a 50+ year old man now. He's not the same small town kid that was just happy to be there. He's well within his right to voice his displeasure and opinion just like everyone else.

I congratulate Pippen for speaking his piece to get peace.

**** yall.

[ImKobe]

So by your own definition, he didn't expose anything. And Pippen wasn't fleeced. His situation didn't permit him to take a chance and gamble that he would've made it the season without having a big injury. He had had back surgery the year before if I remember correctly. Then you got teams like the Pistons looking to put you out. I don't see how anyone can say he stupid for taking security. If anything, I'd say he was naive in thinking that management and ownership would be willing to renegotiate to pay him his fair market value because of what he did and brought to the Bulls. I believe most teams would've obliged. As it being the right thing to do.

Post like the one I'm responding to show the hatred you Jordan fans have for Pippen.

I have no hate for him, I just don't like that he's used by Lebron stans to discredit Jordan's success. Pippen was a great player in his own right but people are now trying to put him on the same level as Barkley and Hakeem and that's just ridiculous.

[sdot_thadon]

I have no hate for him, I just don't like that he's used by Lebron stans to discredit Jordan's success. Pippen was a great player in his own right but people are now trying to put him on the same level as Barkley and Hakeem and that's just ridiculous.

And the same happens in reverse, in order to try and protect MJ's "legacy" from other greats we take away from Scottie to make Mike look 25 feet tall instead of 10?

[3ba11]

And the same happens in reverse, in order to try and protect MJ's "legacy" from other greats we take away from Scottie to make Mike look 25 feet tall instead of 10?


We just state the facts - only MJ carried teams - no one else averaged 10-30 more than teammates in every series of their career - everyone else needed teammates to lead them for entire playoff runs... so it's night and day and very obvious.. deniers like you look like crazy fools... f*ck your cumbaya bullshit - only the facts matter and they're on MJ's side... the more people look into his teammates and the stats - the more people will realize MJ carried the Bulls to 6 rings... Anyone who watched back then already knows this, which is ultimately why he's goat - people DO correctly recognize him as carrying those teams.

[chefcurry]

come on now

[beasted]

This is a lie. Rodman set the record for offensive rebounds in a Finals twice in 96. As an example


This is a lie. There's a bevy of games in which Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc took over.


This is a lie. Rodman shut down Karl Malone in the 98 Finals. I've sent 3ball video evidence of it. There's video of every possession where Rkdman defended Malone make or miss from game 1-5. And that doesn't account the times Malome didn't even take a shot because of Rodmans great defense on him.

Now if you disagree, then your no better than him.
Series, not 1 game. No teammate ever took over a series - Fact.

Rodman wasn't a starter by 98 - Fact

Again just focused specifically on what he said.

[97 bulls]

Series, not 1 game. No teammate ever took over a series - Fact.
Pippen did in 93 vs the Knicks. Rodman did in 96. Pippen did in 98 vs the Pacers, Pippen did in 98 vs the Jazz.


Rodman wasn't a starter by 98 - Fact
So?


Again just focused specifically on what he said. Actually, you didn't. Because I literally quoted what he said that was wrong. Verbatim.

[beasted]

Pippen did in 93 vs the Knicks. Rodman did in 96. Pippen did in 98 vs the Pacers, Pippen did in 98 vs the Jazz.


So?

Actually, you didn't. Because I literally quoted what he said that was wrong. Verbatim.
Please put your crack pipe down before posting. None of the series you posted about fit the description. "Taking over a series" means that if that series were a Finals series, said player would likely be heavily considered for Finals MVP. There's absolutely no series any player would win this imaginary Finals MVP over Jordan. And this is not to diminish the teammates performance whatsoever like 3ball constantly does, just to those specific points in this specific instance you couldn't be more wrong and biased.

[97 bulls]

Please put your crack pipe down before posting. None of the series you posted about fit the description. "Taking over a series" means that if that series were a Finals series, said player would likely be heavily considered for Finals MVP. There's absolutely no series any player would win this imaginary Finals MVP over Jordan. And this is not to diminish the teammates performance whatsoever like 3ball constantly does, just too those specific points in this specific instance you couldn't be more wrong and biased.

Look clown. Don't respond to my posts. I'm not required to think like you. I have posted a myriad of articles saying said players were the reason the Bulls won said series.

I can't help that your comprehension skills are poor. You asked me what was he wrong about. I told your stupid ass. Your comprehension skills are trash and thus you got exposed.

[Reggie43]

Taking over a series usually means you were your teams best player in the majority of those games. Im not sure Pippen ever did that with Jordan by his side especially not in the 98 playoffs against the Pacers were he was very inefficient scoring the ball even for his standards although he did play top level defense which was not that much better than what he usually does if at all.

[Baller789]

Taking over a series usually means you were your teams best player in the majority of those games. Im not sure Pippen ever did that with Jordan by his side especially not in the 98 playoffs against the Pacers were he was very inefficient scoring the ball even for his standards although he did play top level defense which was not that much better than what he usually does if at all.

I agree. I don't know what 97 bulls is yapping about.

[Hey Yo]

Please put your crack pipe down before posting. None of the series you posted about fit the description. "Taking over a series" means that if that series were a Finals series, said player would likely be heavily considered for Finals MVP. There's absolutely no series any player would win this imaginary Finals MVP over Jordan. And this is not to diminish the teammates performance whatsoever like 3ball constantly does, just to those specific points in this specific instance you couldn't be more wrong and biased.

1996, Rodman got multiple FMVP votes.

1998, after 4gms, there were many articles written that Pippen was the front runner for FMVP. Unfortunately he reinjured his back and was taken out of the running.

[BigShotBob]

1996, Rodman got multiple FMVP votes.

1998, after 4gms, there were many articles written that Pippen was the front runner for FMVP. Unfortunately he reinjured his back and was taken out of the running.

Pippen had absolutely no case in 1998. Especially after the first 4 games. Buzz articles propping players up that had no business having the spotlight on them happened just as much then as it does now. You kids really are lost.

Rodman got votes due to his timely offensive rebounding but by this time he was past his defensive prime and couldn't contain Kemp.

[Hey Yo]

Pippen had absolutely no case in 1998. Especially after the first 4 games. Buzz articles propping players up that had no business having the spotlight on them happened just as much then as it does now. You kids really are lost.

Rodman got votes due to his timely offensive rebounding but by this time he was past his defensive prime and couldn't contain Kemp.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://apnews.com/article/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091
https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp

Rodman was 1st team all defensive in 1996. Led the league in rebounding. Avg. 7ppg while taking FMVP votes away from a well rested MJ.

You're clueless about 96' and 98', chico.

[97 bulls]

Pippen had absolutely no case in 1998. Especially after the first 4 games. Buzz articles propping players up that had no business having the spotlight on them happened just as much then as it does now. You kids really are lost.

Rodman got votes due to his timely offensive rebounding but by this time he was past his defensive prime and couldn't contain Kemp.

Rodman didn't guard Kemp in 96. Longley did. This has been covered over and over and over. Why you guys keep trying to promote known falsehoods shows your agenda.

[97 bulls]

It's as if you guys want to stay ignorant. I've sent video evidence that Rodman shutndiwn Malone in 98, without his defense on Malone, the Bulls don't win a ring in 98. Malone was killing Luc Longley. Trying to diminish Rodmans contributions because he didn't start is dumb. Rodman finished all those games. And he guarded Malone more than Longley did.

You Jordanians don't want to give any credit to any of the Bulls and thus why we got Pippen writing a tell all book.

[beasted]

Pippen had absolutely no case in 1998. Especially after the first 4 games. Buzz articles propping players up that had no business having the spotlight on them happened just as much then as it does now. You kids really are lost.

Rodman got votes due to his timely offensive rebounding but by this time he was past his defensive prime and couldn't contain Kemp.
It's like if they keep saying it to themselves in their head it becomes true. Being critical to the team's success or scheme doesn't = MVP of a series. A team wins a title, not a player. But Jordan in each of the title runs was even more critical to the team's success which is supported by nearly every advanced stat available in every series, every time.

Paid professionals voted in many of the actual series to vote MJ over the teammate, but somehow they have revisionist history that their amateur opinion was better.

[beasted]

It's as if you guys want to stay ignorant. I've sent video evidence that Rodman shutndiwn Malone in 98, without his defense on Malone, the Bulls don't win a ring in 98. Malone was killing Luc Longley. Trying to diminish Rodmans contributions because he didn't start is dumb. Rodman finished all those games. And he guarded Malone more than Longley did.

You Jordanians don't want to give any credit to any of the Bulls and thus why we got Pippen writing a tell all book.

Pippen is absolutely justified in his position. I totally subscribe to "No Pip no chip" because every great team needs contributions from several players. The documentary definitely should have covered the team more. But that's not what's being debated here, which I think you're carrying your angst for 3ball's biased views into these specific debate points.

Yes, without Pippen and Rodman's defense the Bulls don't win some of those series, or not as easily. With that said, there's essentially no stats to support your case that they are the MVP of any series. It also fails the eye test. Jordan is not some larger than life mystical creature. He needed help. But your bias is rearing its ugly head to prove 3ball's overall tainted view wrong. He was right in those specific bullets.

[3ba11]

Pippen is absolutely justified in his position. I totally subscribe to "No Pip no chip" because every great team needs contributions from several players. The documentary definitely should have covered the team more. But that's not what's being debated here, which I think you're carrying your angst for 3ball's biased views into these specific debate points.

Yes, without Pippen and Rodman's defense the Bulls don't win some of those series, or not as easily. With that said, there's essentially no stats to support your case that they are the MVP of any series. It also fails the eye test. Jordan is not some larger than life mystical creature. He needed help. But your bias is rearing its ugly head to prove 3ball's overall tainted view wrong. He was right in those specific bullets.


Pippen averaged 15.7 in the 96' and 98' Finals

Why is it so hard to admit that Jordan carried him in those series and the whole 2nd three-peat (17 on 41% for entire 96-98' Playoffs)?

Why is it biased and lying to post ACTUAL STATS about Pippen's shit performance

Why is it biased to point out that Pippen was a low-producer and didn't dominate like other sidekicks

Why is it biased to point out that Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP?

The reality is that you guys are IMMATURE and lack fortitude to go against the misinformation you've been hypnotized by on TV... That's the only way you can label facts as "lying" and "bias"

[97 bulls]

It's like if they keep saying it to themselves in their head it becomes true. Being critical to the team's success or scheme doesn't = MVP of a series.A team wins a title, not a player.But Jordan in each of the title runs was even more critical to the team's success which is supported by nearly every advanced stat available in every series, every time.

Paid professionals voted in many of the actual series to vote MJ over the teammate, but somehow they have revisionist history that their amateur opinion was better.

I'm definitely not arguing the bold. I see it as any credit given to Jordan's teammates somehow is perceived by you guys as a knock on Jordan. When it's only brought up simply because people try to make the claim that Jordan won those Championships with no help. It's crazy. George Karl the coach of the Sonics is on record saying Rodman was the key reason the Bulls won 2 of those games in 96.

[outofstomach]

Pippen is absolutely justified in his position. I totally subscribe to "No Pip no chip" because every great team needs contributions from several players. The documentary definitely should have covered the team more. But that's not what's being debated here, which I think you're carrying your angst for 3ball's biased views into these specific debate points.

Yes, without Pippen and Rodman's defense the Bulls don't win some of those series, or not as easily. With that said, there's essentially no stats to support your case that they are the MVP of any series. It also fails the eye test. Jordan is not some larger than life mystical creature. He needed help. But your bias is rearing its ugly head to prove 3ball's overall tainted view wrong. He was right in those specific bullets.
97 bulls is just a closeted bronsexual masquerading as a jordan truther, don’t even bother replying to him

[97 bulls]

Pippen is absolutely justified in his position. I totally subscribe to "No Pip no chip" because every great team needs contributions from several players. The documentary definitely should have covered the team more. But that's not what's being debated here, which I think you're carrying your angst for 3ball's biased views into these specific debate points.

Yes, without Pippen and Rodman's defense the Bulls don't win some of those series, or not as easily. With that said, there's essentially no stats to support your case that they are the MVP of any series. It also fails the eye test. Jordan is not some larger than life mystical creature. He needed help. But your bias is rearing its ugly head to prove 3ball's overall tainted view wrong. He was right in those specific bullets.

It's not a bias. You'll never read a quote of me saying Pippen was as good as Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT in my opinion. But the constant berating of Jordan's teammates by him and his cronies has got to stop.

[3ba11]

I'm definitely not arguing the bold. I see it as any credit given to Jordan's teammates somehow is perceived by you guys as a knock on Jordan. When it's only brought up simply because people try to make the claim that Jordan won those Championships with no help. It's crazy. George Karl the coach of the Sonics is on record saying Rodman was the key reason the Bulls won 2 of those games in 96.


No one wins single-handedly but Jordan won more single-handedly than anyone in history - the stats prove that

And Jordan averaged 6 rebounds and 6 assists

[3ba11]

97 bulls is just a closeted bronsexual masquerading as a jordan truther, don’t even bother replying to him


Yeah that's true.. I normally avoid him

[SouBeachTalents]

No one wins single-handedly but Jordan won more single-handedly than anyone in history - the stats prove that

And Jordan averaged 6 rebounds and 6 assists
Crazy then that team managed to win 55 games without him.

[97 bulls]

Yeah that's true.. I normally avoid him

Lol yeah after you get exposed. Then you just weasel your way out of the thread. You still haven't answered as to why Jordan never led a team to 55 wins without a hall of fame caliber teammate seeing as how you say everybody does it.

[97 bulls]

Just for the record, here's what Karl said about Rodman.


Seattle Coach George Karl: "Dennis Rodman won them two ballgames in this series. Game 2 and tonight, he was the reason they were successful. We controlled Michael Jordan for the most part in the series. We put him on the foul line a lot {where he was 11 for 12 on Sunday night}, but without that he had a pretty mediocre game."

[3ba11]

Crazy then that team managed to win 55 games without him.


^^^ 3-peat system and know-how

Yet they were only 2nd Round in 94' and borderline lottery in 95' - turning that trash into 3-peat goat dynasty is why MJ is goat

[3ba11]

Just for the record, here's what Karl said about Rodman.


Great, so Rodman got closer to FMVP than Pippen, thus confirming that Pippen was a carried bum that was 0/6 in FMVP and among the lowest producers in Finals history for a sidekick

Pippen averaged 10-30 less than MJ in every series or Finals - what other sidekick was carried for their whole career like this??.. :biggums:... Pippen also averaged less assists and got less DPOY votes every year

[beasted]

Pippen averaged 15.7 in the 96' and 98' Finals

Why is it so hard to admit that Jordan carried him in those series and the whole 2nd three-peat (17 on 41% for entire 96-98' Playoffs)?

Why is it biased and lying to post ACTUAL STATS about Pippen's shit performance

Why is it biased to point out that Pippen was a low-producer and didn't dominate like other sidekicks

Why is it biased to point out that Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP?

The reality is that you guys are IMMATURE and lack fortitude to go against the misinformation you've been hypnotized by on TV... That's the only way you can label facts as "lying" and "bias"
Pippen dominated defensively and you're not acknowledging it in most cases. Yes, Jordan carried Pippen offensively. The two can be mutually exclusive:

1) Pippen's contributions overall (offense and defense) were critical to the Bulls success
2) Jordan carried the Bulls offensively and was clear MVP of all series.

It's clear you're biased to diminish Pippen solely to support your argument that LeBron had more help than Jordan at times. While that may be true, your way about making your case is why you have no credibility.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen dominated defensively and you're not acknowledging it in most cases. Yes, Jordan carried Pippen offensively. The two can be mutually exclusive:

1) Pippen's contributions overall (offense and defense) were critical to the Bulls success
2) Jordan carried the Bulls offensively.

It's clear you're biased to diminish Pippen solely to support your argument that LeBron had more help than Jordan at times. While that may be true, your way about making your case is why you have no credibility.
He also never brings up the fact Pippen consistently outplayed the opponents 2nd option during their title runs. He cherrypicks a handful of times he didn't, but the facts are Pippen outplayed the other teams 2nd option a majority of the time. Hell, he was even coming close to or matching the opposing teams best player on a number of occasions.

[8Ball]

It's not a bias. You'll never read a quote of me saying Pippen was as good as Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT in my opinion. But the constant berating of Jordan's teammates by him and his cronies has got to stop.

This.

They berate Pippen because LeBron threaten's Jordan legacy.

[8Ball]

Lol yeah after you get exposed. Then you just weasel your way out of the thread. You still haven't answered as to why Jordan never led a team to 55 wins without a hall of fame caliber teammate seeing as how you say everybody does it.

Pippen won 55 games and 59 games without Jordan.

[3ba11]

Pippen dominated defensively and you're not acknowledging it in most cases. Yes, Jordan carried Pippen offensively. The two can be mutually exclusive:

1) Pippen's contributions overall (offense and defense) were critical to the Bulls success
2) Jordan carried the Bulls offensively and was clear MVP of all series.

It's clear you're biased to diminish Pippen solely to support your argument that LeBron had more help than Jordan at times. While that may be true, your way about making your case is why you have no credibility.


Scoring is what determines if a player is 2nd option or not, so insufficient scoring makes someone a defensive role player - that's what Pippen was for the vast majority of his playoff career.

And why give Pippen credit for defense when he was the 3rd best defender on the team?.. Jordan was considered the better defender and got more DPOY votes every year, while Rodman was also considered better.

So the Bulls won in spite of Pippen because nearly every other winning sidekick was more dominant and wasn't carried as much (or at all)

[beasted]

He also never brings up the fact Pippen consistently outplayed the opponents 2nd option during their title runs. He cherrypicks a handful of times he didn't, but the facts are Pippen outplayed the other teams 2nd option a majority of the time. Hell, he was even coming close to or matching the opposing teams best player on a number of occasions.
Majority offensively? I don't know about that. Maybe when you add in his defensive contributions from an overall perspective he may have outplayed several #2s.

What is clear is that there's never been a consistent greater divide from a #1 to #2 option, and that Pippen flat out stunk in several series.

Again, several concepts can be mutually exclusive.

[3ba11]

He also never brings up the fact Pippen consistently outplayed the opponents 2nd option during their title runs. He cherrypicks a handful of times he didn't, but the facts are Pippen outplayed the other teams 2nd option a majority of the time. Hell, he was even coming close to or matching the opposing teams best player on a number of occasions.


Pippen outplayed the opposing 2nd option as often as Klay, Rip Hamilton or Pau - that's the caliber he's on, which is far below the juggernaut sidekicks like Kobe, Curry or Wade, who act more like "1b" sidekicks that dominate and routinely outplay the opposing #1 option.

Anyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to average 25 or win FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals, but Pippen peaked at 21 and is 0/6 in FMVP, so MJ won with less than anyone that won 3+ Finals

[8Ball]

He also never brings up the fact Pippen consistently outplayed the opponents 2nd option during their title runs. He cherrypicks a handful of times he didn't, but the facts are Pippen outplayed the other teams 2nd option a majority of the time. Hell, he was even coming close to or matching the opposing teams best player on a number of occasions.

Pippen outplayed the opposing first option over half the time.

[beasted]

Scoring is what determines if a player is 2nd option or not, so insufficient scoring makes someone a defensive role player - that's what Pippen was for the vast majority of his playoff career.

And why give Pippen credit for defense when he was the 3rd best defender on the team?.. Jordan was considered the better defender and got more DPOY votes every year, while Rodman was also considered better.

So the Bulls won in spite of Pippen because nearly every other winning sidekick was more dominant and wasn't carried as much (or at all)

When you say things like Bulls winning in spite of the 2nd best player is why you have no credibility. Yes, Pippen nearly choked many series away with his offense, it doesn't mean he didn't have great series as well.

The documentary for sure needed to highlight him more.

[3ba11]

When you say things like Bulls winning in spite of the 2nd best player is why you have no credibility. Yes, Pippen nearly choked many series away with his offense, it doesn't mean he didn't have great series as well.

The documentary for sure needed to highlight him more.


No one beats top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick* - only Jordan and he did it all the time because Pippen's shit performance made him do it - Jordan won 6 chips with a sidekick getting worse stats than Pandemic P

* edit: I think Duncan did it once

[SouBeachTalents]

Majority offensively? I don't know about that. Maybe when you add in his defensive contributions from an overall perspective he may have outplayed several #2s.

What is clear is that there's never been a consistent greater divide from a #1 to #2 option, and that Pippen flat out stunk in several series.

Again, several concepts can be mutually exclusive.
Even if you look at only points/assists/efficiency, Pippen still outproduced or at worst matched most of the opposing teams 2nd options looking at purely an offensive production standpoint. Factor in defense the disparity gets even bigger.

[beasted]

Even if you look at only points/assists/efficiency, Pippen still outproduced or at worst matched most of the opposing teams 2nd options looking at purely an offensive production standpoint. Factor in defense the disparity gets even bigger.

Consistency is what gives 3ball room to make his arguments. Pippen was not consistent in producing and had some horrid performances directly beside all-time greatest performances from his counterpart. Aka carry jobs, not once, not twice, several times.

But I agree that all contributions overall Pippen was a very good sidekick who definitely helped them win titles and is entitled tofeel slighted by being a footnote in the documentary.

[3ba11]

Even if you look at only points/assists/efficiency, Pippen still outproduced or at worst matched most of the opposing teams 2nd options looking at purely an offensive production standpoint. Factor in defense the disparity gets even bigger.


Outside of 94' when he was 1st option, Pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd leading scorer in 22 of 41 series (17 of 17 series without MJ) - so he was only a 2nd option alongside MJ, otherwise he wasn't a 2nd option and his worst-ever efficiency confirms that he couldn't handle a 2nd option load

[jmcwilliams]

Pippen seems like A naturally depressed kind of guy. He gets stuck in his low feelings it seems. He is the one who made A horrible business decision that resulted in him not getting paid. He allowed that to make him bitter but no one made him do that. Jordan has been A smart business man. The fact of the matter is he was in the shadow of A superstar. Same deal with those who play with lebron. The Public creates that dynamic more so than the player. Jordan and Lebron of course love the narrative and use it as A spring board for many other opportunities. Pippen is pissed off about being second fiddle and feels disrespected. Nothing wrong with him voicing that I suppose. In the end he comes off looking bitter though. Michael Jordan was and is the product. Not the Chicago bulls. A Michael Jordan documentary is what most people wanted not A bulls documentary. Michael is the Legend, the myth, the Hero. The other guys are just that. The other guys. Like it of not that is how the Hero narrative plays out. He is the protagonist that we create.

[000]

pippen was obliterated by future and tristan thompson.

[Phoenix]

Outside of 94' when he was 1st option, Pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd leading scorer in 22 of 41 series (17 of 17 series without MJ) - so he was only a 2nd option alongside MJ, otherwise he wasn't a 2nd option and his worst-ever efficiency confirms that he couldn't handle a 2nd option load

No, 33 year old Scottie post-back injury wasn't a 2nd option. Thanks for telling us something we didn't know.

[BigShotBob]

When you say things like Bulls winning in spite of the 2nd best player is why you have no credibility. Yes, Pippen nearly choked many series away with his offense, it doesn't mean he didn't have great series as well.

The documentary for sure needed to highlight him more.

But let's be completely honest about something. Replace Pippen with Kemp, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, and several others and the Bulls still 3-Peat. If they had traded Pippen in 96' for Kemp like they wanted to, Jordan would still 3-peat and nothing would change. The only person who was opposed to the trade was Jordan himself because of the chemistry that they built over the years.

[3ba11]

But let's be completely honest about something. Replace Pippen with Kemp, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, and several others and the Bulls still 3-Peat. If they had traded Pippen in 96' for Kemp like they wanted to, Jordan would still 3-peat and nothing would change. The only person who was opposed to the trade was Jordan himself because of the chemistry that they built over the years.


BOOM BABY!!!.... :applause:... :applause:

finally, some real sense itt

and for people that say Pippen should've been in the documentary more - SHOWING WHAT EXACTLY????...

Should the doc have showed when Pippen destroyed MVP Barkley in the Finals?... Oh wait... that was kyrie that destroyed the league MVP, not pippen...

Should the doc have showed the many times that Pippen took over a series and hit all those big shots?... Oh wait.. he literally never did that in his entire playoff career... That's the point about Pippen - he was literally a 16/5/5 guy with bad efficiency - he never played at a level that was worthy of any documentary.

[SATAN]

Michael is the Legend, the myth, the Hero.

the Ball hog, the degenerate gambling addict, the Psychopath.

[Axe]

That riles you up so hard.

[TheGoatest]

Michael is the Legend, the myth, the Hero.

To the mainstream, propaganda-receptive lowest common denominator, perhaps.
Those who know how things really were beneath the surface like:

A - Serious, objective basketball fans
B - Madonna

know about Pip's true value when compared to Jordan.

[houston]

Pippen outplayed the opposing 2nd option as often as Klay, Rip Hamilton or Pau - that's the caliber he's on, which is far below the juggernaut sidekicks like Kobe, Curry or Wade, who act more like "1b" sidekicks that dominate and routinely outplay the opposing #1 option.

Anyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to average 25 or win FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals, but Pippen peaked at 21 and is 0/6 in FMVP, so MJ won with less than anyone that won 3+ Finals



This on point right here. That why I was shock when Tony Parker didn't make Top 75 team.

[97 bulls]

BOOM BABY!!!.... :applause:... :applause:

finally, some real sense itt

and for people that say Pippen should've been in the documentary more - SHOWING WHAT EXACTLY????...

Should the doc have showed when Pippen destroyed MVP Barkley in the Finals?... Oh wait... that was kyrie that destroyed the league MVP, not pippen...

Should the doc have showed the many times that Pippen took over a series and hit all those big shots?... Oh wait.. he literally never did that in his entire playoff career... That's the point about Pippen - he was literally a 16/5/5 guy with bad efficiency - he never played at a level that was worthy of any documentary.

I think this dude is slow. He did that in 92 game 6 and all throughout the 93 ecf. Lol.

[Derka]

Scottie is now and always has been a gigantic bitch.

[RogueBorg]

Scottie is now and always has been a gigantic bitch.

If you guys want to know how players back then thought about Pippen skip to the 2:41 point. Isiah and the Pistons didn't respect Scottie's game, they thought he was soft.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nBRe4uA9s

[Airupthere]

If you guys want to know how players back then thought about Pippen skip to the 2:41 point. Isiah and the Pistons didn't respect Scottie's game, they thought he was soft.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nBRe4uA9s

I've seen this many times. Pippen should see this so he knows his place. Too much yapping nowadays. Unfortunate because he is one of my most favorite players, but he is singlehandedly changing that.

[RogueBorg]

https://www.sportscasting.com/scottie-pippen-developed-reputation-soft-after-2-unfortunate-incidents-chicago-bulls/

”People always ask what would have happened if (Pippen) had gone to another team, a team that didn’t have Michael,” Krause said to Sports Illustrated back in 1993. “They say, ‘Well, Scottie would have been a star right away instead of having to wait.’

“I don’t think so. I think coming here made it easier for him. If he had gone to another team – a kid from Arkansas,
picked from an NAIA school, picked fifth in the draft – the pressure would have been unbelievable. He would have been asked to produce right away. Here there was no pressure in the beginning.”


Krause went on to say Jordan absorbed most of the pressure as Pippen struggled during practices. Working alongside Jordan, Krause said, allowed Pippen to grow.

Scottie Pippen had an early reputation of being soft after a pair of unfortunate events

Pippen certainly had his fair share of growing pains early in his NBA career. He was always compared to Jordan, but the biggest early hurdle was people questioning his toughness. Those questions stemmed from two incidents that took part at the beginning of his career.

The first one took part in 1989 in a game against the rival Detroit Pistons. It was his second year in the league, and the Bulls were battling the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals. Detroit held a 3-2 series lead. In the opening minute of Game 6, Pippen was floored by an elbow by Detroit center Bill Laimbeer. Pippen never returned to the game, and the Bulls lost at home, 103-94.

The following year, the teams met again in the Eastern Conference Finals. This time it was Game 7. Pippen was shaken by a migraine headache. He played but finished with two points in what might have been the biggest game of his life at that point. Two season-ending losses for the Bulls and Pippen was a non-factor in both.


”How do you explain the things that happen?” Pippen asked in 1993. ”The time against Laimbeer, I wanted to go back. I asked and asked to go back. The doctors and Jerry Krause wouldn’t let me. I’d never had a migraine before. It’s very hard to tell people what you feel like in that situation. If I were on the other side, it would be very hard to tell me. And once you get people on your back, it’s hard to get them off.”

[hiphopanonymous]

Holy SHIT!

:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:


It’s over yall. I dont see how MJ can come back from this.

He'll never be able to show his face on insidehoops again