SLAM Magazine Top 75 Players of All-Time (2021)

[L.Kizzle]

SLAM has finally revealed its Top 75 List a few weeks after the NBA released their official list.
Thoughts on their 2021 list?

SLAM TOP 75
75. Chris Webber
74. Klay Thompson
73. Pete Maravich
72. Pau Gasol
71. Alex English
70. Damian Lillard
69. Bill Walton
68. Chris Bosh
67. Adrian Dantley
66. Manu Ginobili
65. Vince Carter
64. Kyrie Irving
63. Tony Parker
62. Robert Parish
61. Paul Pierce
60. Dennis Rodman
59. Carmelo Anthony
58. Bob Pettit
57. Reggie Miller
56. Bernard King
55. Earl Monroe
54. Gary Payton
53. Clyde Drexler
52. Nate Archibald
51. Willis Reed
50. James Worthy
49. Ray Allen
48. George Mikan
47. George Gervin
46. Wes Unseld
45. Dominique Wilkins
44. Tracy McGrady
43. Kevin McHale
42. Anthony Davis
41. Bob Cousy
40. Walt Frazier
39. Elvin Hayes
38. Steve Nash
37. Rick Barry
36. James Harden
35. Russell Westbrook
34. Chris Paul
33. Patrick Ewing
32. Jason Kidd
31. David Robinson
30. Kawhi Leonard
29. Dirk Nowitzki
28. Giannis Antetekoumpou
27. Kevin Garnett
26. John Stockton
25. Allen Iverson
24. John Havlicek
23. Karl Malone
22. Charles Barkley
21. Dwyane Wade
20. Scottie Pippen
19. Elgin Baylor
18. Isiah Thomas
17. Jerry West
16. Julius Erving
15. Moses Malone
14. Stephen Curry
13. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Oscar Robertson
11. Kevin Durant
10. Larry Bird
9. Tim Duncan
8. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
4. Kobe Bryant
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan
-----‐‐-‐---------------------

A few take aways.
-They got rid of the majority of the 50s and 60s players
-Dwight Howard is still missing on this list and Dame Lillard is still here.

[RRR3]

Hideous list.

[FultzNationRISE]

Giannis WAY too high for an all-time career list.

I understand he’s got a couple MVPs and now a FMVP. But he hasnt been remotely consistent enough in terms of the eye test. One epic finals series doesnt completely negate a lot of suspect playoff performances IMO. I think it’s an insult to a lot of other guys who showed up way more often in their careers.

Also LOL @ Westbrook the 35th best player of all time.

Absolutely shameless.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's a terrible list. There are several I could name, but the absolute worst rankings

Kobe 4th
Iverson 25th
KG, Dirk & Robinson all outside the top 25
Drexler outside the top 50
Pettit 58th

[Wally450]

Kobe at 4 is high as hell lol

[Airupthere]

Kobe is too high. Hakeem is too low.

[Jasper]

kyrie Irving should not be on the list.
Bill Walton should not be on the list
Giannis should be top 30 for now
Kobe should be 15-20 slot
Durant should be in possibly top ten.
Unseld should not be on the list as well

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I expected much worse considering their entire agenda is showcasing players with hip hop styles. Putting Manu Ginobili, Pau Gasol is a very nice touch.

Kawhi Leonard already has a better career then guys like Steve Nash and David Robinson as well.

Only main problem i see is Reggie Miller is too high, iverson is too high and Curry should be below Kawhi.

[bladefd]

I don't like that list. Even the NBA's list is better.

[ImKobe]

Lebron is not top 5 All-Time, can we please stop trying to put him there? Pippen is ranked way too high for a 2nd option and he only made 3 All-NBA 1st teams and his Playoff numbers are not good enough to be ahead of KG/Wade etc.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron is not top 5 All-Time, can we please stop trying to put him there?

He is, deal with it.

[ImKobe]

He is, deal with it.

Only 4 rings... You can't put him over Kareem, Magic & Kobe. He's in Bird's tier.

[1987_Lakers]

Only 4 rings... You can't put him over Kareem, Magic & Kobe. He's in Bird's tier.

Let me ask you a question, if you are going strictly off rings is Kareem's 6 rings really that greater than LeBron's 4 considering Kareem has two rings where he averaged 17 ppg, & 14 ppg? A borderline All-star & basically a role player in '87 & '88.

This might be news to you, but winning rings is a team accomplishment, not individual. Kareem & Magic had the luxury of playing with each other while having massive help on their side.

[ImKobe]

Let me ask you a question, if you are going strictly off rings is Kareem's 6 rings really that greater than LeBron's 4 considering Kareem has two rings where he averaged 17 ppg, & 14 ppg? A borderline All-star & basically a role player in '87 & '88.

He still put up 22 with 2.5 blocks in the '87 Finals with 32 points 4 blocks 72%FG in the Game 6 close out win. Kareem also has 2 more MVPs and is #1 all-time scoring despite coming to the league at 22. 6 rings in 10 Finals with a better RS career vs 4 rings 10 Finals. He also won FMVP at 38 by outplaying prime Magic & Bird.

[1987_Lakers]

He still put up 22 with 2.5 blocks in the '87 Finals with 32 points 4 blocks 72%FG in the Game 6 close out win. Kareem also has 2 more MVPs and is #1 all-time scoring despite coming to the league at 22. 6 rings in 10 Finals with a better RS career vs 4 rings 10 Finals. He also won FMVP at 38 by outplaying prime Magic & Bird.

Wow, so putting up 22 ppg in the Finals is all-time great now? You know for a fact you would shit on LeBron if he put up those numbers in the Finals and say he was carried, don't be a hypocrite.

We all know Kareem is a top 3 player ever, but my point is 6 rings sounds awfully less impressive once you dig deeper on those championship runs, you have to factor in Kareem wasn't even the best player on his team in alot of those chips and at the time played with the most stacked roster the league had ever seen. By the 80's Kareem's rebounding and defense fell dramatically, was he a better player in the 80's than he was in the 70's where he only won 1 ring? No, we all know Kareem was a superior player in the 70's and you would be laughed out of the room if you think otherwise.

Just goes to show your "rings" argument doesn't hold weight, especially if you consider LeBron got all his 4 rings as the bonified best player in the NBA, which to me says he had more contribution to his championship rings compared to Kareem.

[SouBeachTalents]

Let me ask you a question, if you are going strictly off rings is Kareem's 6 rings really that greater than LeBron's 4 considering Kareem has two rings where he averaged 17 ppg, & 14 ppg? A borderline All-star & basically a role player in '87 & '88.

This might be news to you, but winning rings is a team accomplishment, not individual. Kareem & Magic had the luxury of playing with each other while having massive help on their side.
Are you really arguing with someone who claims a player “only” has 4 rings :lol They have to go the ring route because there’s literally no argument they can make when comparing them individually that puts Kobe ahead of LeBron. It’s as decisive an advantage as one player could have over another. Their last and only resort is arguing about rings they won while getting outscored 38-16 in the Finals.

[Thenameless]

Let me ask you a question, if you are going strictly off rings is Kareem's 6 rings really that greater than LeBron's 4 considering Kareem has two rings where he averaged 17 ppg, & 14 ppg? A borderline All-star & basically a role player in '87 & '88.

This might be news to you, but winning rings is a team accomplishment, not individual. Kareem & Magic had the luxury of playing with each other while having massive help on their side.

If Giannis and Lillard are counting then they'd definitely give Kareem more credit for his 6 than Lebron's 4. At least the first one in Milawaukee was truly his with only an aging Oscar Robertson to help, and with the team who drafted him (before he left, lol). I agree that the Kareem/Magic/Worthy era was already a superteam, but all of Lebron's were on a superteam of some sort.

[ImKobe]

Wow, so putting up 22 ppg in the Finals is all-time great now? You know for a fact you would shit on LeBron if he put up those numbers in the Finals and say he was carried, don't be a hypocrite.

We all know Kareem is a top 3 player ever, but my point is 6 rings sounds awfully less impressive once you dig deeper on those championship runs, you have to factor in Kareem wasn't even the best player on his team in alot of those chips and at the time played with the most stacked roster the league had ever seen. By the 80's Kareem's rebounding and defense fell dramatically, was he a better player in the 80's than he was in the 70's where he only won 1 ring? No, we all know Kareem was a superior player in the 70's and you would be laughed out of the room if you think otherwise.

Just goes to show your "rings" argument doesn't hold weight, especially if you consider LeBron got all his 4 rings as the bonified best player in the NBA, which to me says he had more contribution to his championship rings compared to Kareem.

Like I said, Kareem didn't play like a "role player" and a 38 y.o version was as good as peak Bird/Magic.. He had a better career than Lebron, get over it stan.

[ImKobe]

Are you really arguing with someone who claims a player “only” has 4 rings :lol They have to go the ring route because there’s literally no argument they can make when comparing them individually that puts Kobe ahead of LeBron. It’s as decisive an advantage as one player could have over another. Their last and only resort is arguing about rings they won while getting outscored 38-16 in the Finals.

I made plenty of arguments for Kareem but you obviously struggle reading. He had a better RS & Playoffs career.

[SouBeachTalents]

I made plenty of arguments for Kareem but you obviously struggle reading. He had a better RS & Playoffs career.
Huh? Kareem has a legitimate argument over LeBron, and it has nothing to do with rings. '87 Lakers is right that his last two shouldn't move the needle historically, esp his last one where he was a legit role player by that point.

This is why I hate the rangz argument and think it's incredibly stupid. What Kareem did in his prime, esp during the '74 & '77 seasons where he played ATG ball, should hold much more weight than what he did as a 3rd-4th option at the end of his career as a shell of himself.

[L.Kizzle]

How is Scottie Pippen over Malone and Barkley when they played in the same era and Malone and Barkley were considered better then him (especially Malone.) Karl was better then Scottie in like every single season. Barkley was better for the majority of his career over Pippen as well.

[Jasper]

How is Scottie Pippen over Malone and Barkley when they played in the same era and Malone and Barkley were considered better then him (especially Malone.) Karl was better then Scottie in like every single season. Barkley was better for the majority of his career over Pippen as well.

Malone was owned by Pip in the playoffs ,, many considered Pip the better player.
All three are on the list , I disagree with the numbering , but that is Slam .

[Jasper]

Huh? Kareem has a legitimate argument over LeBron, and it has nothing to do with rings. '87 Lakers is right that his last two shouldn't move the needle historically, esp his last one where he was a legit role player by that point.

This is why I hate the rangz argument and think it's incredibly stupid. What Kareem did in his prime, esp during the '74 & '77 seasons where he played ATG ball, should hold much more weight than what he did as a 3rd-4th option at the end of his career as a shell of himself.

Many players of that era considered Kareem the ultimate player. Kareem was past his prime when MJ came in .. But retired players still consider Kareem the ultimate goat.

[Shogon]

Who the **** thinks Kyrie Irving at his peak/prime is better than Dwight Howard at his peak/prime?

Dude... people are ****ing morons. Don't make a list if you don't know your NBA history.

Dwight Howard shits on almost half the people on that list. Damn, people REALLY don't like his personality. :roll:

Oh well... Dwight Howard is a lot more mature now but that guy used to be a douche. C'est la vie.

[1987_Lakers]

Like I said, Kareem didn't play like a "role player" and a 38 y.o version was as good as peak Bird/Magic.. He had a better career than Lebron, get over it stan.

38 old Kareem who couldn't defend or rebound was better than a peak Bird/Magic? Lmao, OK bud.

[RRR3]

38 old Kareem who couldn't defend or rebound was better than a peak Bird/Magic? Lmao, OK bud.
He’s in another thread saying Carmelo vs. LeBron is debatable :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

38 old Kareem who couldn't defend or rebound was better than a peak Bird/Magic? Lmao, OK bud.

He led the '85 Lakers in scoring, rebounding & blocks for the Playoffs and averaged 26/9/5 2 blocks 62.9%TS in the Finals at age 38.

Lebron can barely defend & rebound right now and he's 36. Kareem was the best player on the Lakers in 3 straight Finals from 35-38 years old.

[RRR3]

He led the '85 Lakers in scoring, rebounding & blocks for the Playoffs and averaged 26/9/5 2 blocks 62.9%TS in the Finals at age 38.

Lebron can barely defend & rebound right now and he's 36. Kareem was the best player on the Lakers in 3 straight Finals from 35-38 years old.
One good finals series definitely makes him as good as peak Bird and Magic!

[1987_Lakers]

He led the '85 Lakers in scoring, rebounding & blocks for the Playoffs and averaged 26/9/5 2 blocks 62.9%TS in the Finals at age 38.

Lebron can barely defend & rebound right now and he's 36. Kareem was the best player on the Lakers in 3 straight Finals from 35-38 years old.

In the '85 playoffs which is a better way to judge someone since there is a bigger sample size he averaged 22/8/4/2, but somehow he was as good as a peak Bird & Magic who you could argue had top 10 peaks ever. lmfao.

That version of Kareem isn't even better than current Jokic. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[RRR3]

In the '85 playoffs which is a better way to judge someone since there is a bigger sample size he averaged 22/8/4/2, but somehow he was as good as a peak Bird & Magic who you could argue had top 10 peaks ever. lmfao.

That version of Kareem isn't even better than current Jokic. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Ask him who’s better between Carmelo and LeBron :lol

[ImKobe]

One good finals series definitely makes him as good as peak Bird and Magic!

He was better than Magic from 83-85 lol. 3 straight Playoff runs/Finals in his mid/late 30s. Magic cost him a ring in '84. He had the better RS & Playoff career than Lebron and there's really no debate right now.

[RRR3]

He was better than Magic from 83-85 lol. 3 straight Playoff runs/Finals in his mid/late 30s. Magic cost him a ring in '84. He had the better RS & Playoff career than Lebron and there's really no debate right now.
You think Carmelo vs. LeBron is a debate, exactly why should I take anything you say about LeBron seriously?

[1987_Lakers]

He was better than Magic from 83-85 lol. 3 straight Playoff runs/Finals in his mid/late 30s. Magic cost him a ring in '84. He had the better RS & Playoff career than Lebron and there's really no debate right now.

Too bad most lists you see right now have LeBron ahead of Kareem and your idol Brickbe.

[ImKobe]

Too bad most lists you see right now have LeBron ahead of Kareem and your idol Brickbe.

The media said it so it must be true! Not like there's any Klutch Sports bias or anything.. Imagine having 80s Lakers are your username and shitting on the best Laker player of that entire run lmao.

[RRR3]

The media said it so it must be true! Not like there's any Klutch Sports bias or anything.. Imagine having 80s Lakers are your username and shitting on the best Laker player of that entire run lmao.
Please tell us why we should take the opinion of someone who thinks Carmelo vs LeBron is debatable seriously. Can you do that? :lol

[ImKobe]

Please tell us why we should take the opinion of someone who thinks Carmelo vs LeBron is debatable seriously. Can you do that? :lol

There's no debate. Lebron had the better career. Now, can you please give me a solid argument for Lebron over Kareem?

[1987_Lakers]

The media said it so it must be true! Not like there's any Klutch Sports bias or anything.. Imagine having 80s Lakers are your username and shitting on the best Laker player of that entire run lmao.

I'm sorry, as much as I dislike the media, I think I might value their opinion more than yours considering you have LeBron & Carmelo on the same level as players & you just stated a past prime Kareem was as good as peak Bird/Magic. Those are some cringe level statements.

I'm just being objective, I'm not gonna make dumb statements to make other players look better than they were. I'm not shitting on Kareem at all, but the fact that you actually think he was some superstar type player for most of his rings is amusing to say the least. Like seriously, saying a 38 year old Kareem was as good as peak Magic/Bird is one of the dumbest things I've read on this site, and that is saying something.

[eliteballer]

He was better than Magic from 83-85 lol. 3 straighth Playoff runs/Finals in his mid/late 30s. Magic cost him a ring in '84. He had the better RS & Playoff career than Lebron and there's really no debate right now.

Lol, magic throughly outplayed peak Bird overall in the 3 finals they matched up, numbers aren’t close. Even in 84 he had better numbers despite the narrative the media pushed about tragic
Magic I believe. In top of that magic was 3 years younger.

[RRR3]

There's no debate. Lebron had the better career. Now, can you please give me a solid argument for Lebron over Kareem?
In another thread you said it could have been a debate if Melo had better teams which implies you think they’re similar in terms of impact. Don’t play coy now.

[SaintzFury13]

There's no debate. Lebron had the better career. Now, can you please give me a solid argument for Lebron over Kareem?

It's definitely close between Kareem and LeBron, but to act like LeBron has no case over him is idiotic. LeBron is already on pace to break Kareem's greatest accomplishment, which is his scoring record, and has multiple records already that we will likely not see be broken for a long time. His four championships hold more weight in my eyes than Kareem's six because as others have pointed out, he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of them. That isn't to say that Kareem wasn't a huge factor in those (although he was not by any stretch of the imagination on par with peak Magic and Bird at age 38), he still was able to contribute and be an extremely valuable asset to the team even at his advanced age.

And now they play on the court needs to be taken into consideration as well. I've said it before, but LeBron is the greatest all around player the NBA has ever seen and there's no argument for anyone else right now. We have never seen any player who was so elite in multiple categories like LeBron is. It always felt like whatever major weakness he had, he was able to improve in to the point where he was dangerous in that regard as his career progressed into its later stages, while Kareem slowly got worse.

For the longest time, I had LeBron at number 3 and Kareem at 2. What put LeBron past Kareem for me was his fourth championship run, where even with the opposing teams best player focusing on him and playing in a unique situation where there was no homecourt advantage and thus all teams were on equal footing, LeBron clearly past his prime still found a way to elevate his game, put on an MVP level performance and be the clear cut best player in the NBA Finals to lead his team past Miami, who were without question the weakest team he had ever beaten in a Finals, but still an elite team nonetheless.

It's honestly a coin flip. Like I said before, it's incredibly close for both, and you aren't wrong for choosing one over the other. But to act like it's so obvious that there's no argument on the matter, again, is just idiotic.

[ImKobe]

I'm sorry, as much as I dislike the media, I think I might value their opinion more than yours considering you have LeBron & Carmelo on the same level as players & you just stated a past prime Kareem was as good as peak Bird/Magic. Those are some cringe level statements.

I'm just being objective, I'm not gonna make dumb statements to make other players look better than they were. I'm not shitting on Kareem at all, but the fact that you actually think he was some superstar type player for most of his rings is amusing to say the least. Like seriously, saying a 38 year old Kareem was as good as peak Magic/Bird is one of the dumbest things I've read on this site, and that is saying something.

You actually typed this shit out lmao... He was as good/better by the stats and played his best game in the Finals close-out and would have most likely been the FMVP the year before as well if not for Magic choking. Do you know nothing about Lakers' history? He should have won 4 FMVP if not for his ankle injury in '80, he was by far the best player in the '80 Finals, you think rookie Magic was better because of one game?

You seem to place a high value in FMVP in every other argument but in this one it doesn't matter, even though he outplayed everyone in the '85 Finals with 29 on ~64%TS in a road close-out game where both Bird and Magic struggled to score the ball and he blew them away in scoring numbers/efficiency for the series. He had 36/7/7 3 blocks to put them up 3 - 2 in the first place in a close 4th quarter game where the Celtics almost cut it to within 1 score. Him and Mchale were the two best players and playing for FMVP but you'd have known it had you actually done your research.

[ImKobe]

It's definitely close between Kareem and LeBron, but to act like LeBron has no case over him is idiotic. LeBron is already on pace to break Kareem's greatest accomplishment, which is his scoring record, and has multiple records already that we will likely not see be broken for a long time. His four championships hold more weight in my eyes than Kareem's six because as others have pointed out, he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of them. That isn't to say that Kareem wasn't a huge factor in those (although he was not by any stretch of the imagination on par with peak Magic and Bird at age 38), he still was able to contribute and be an extremely valuable asset to the team even at his advanced age.

And now they play on the court needs to be taken into consideration as well. I've said it before, but LeBron is the greatest all around player the NBA has ever seen and there's no argument for anyone else right now. We have never seen any player who was so elite in multiple categories like LeBron is. It always felt like whatever major weakness he had, he was able to improve in to the point where he was dangerous in that regard as his career progressed into its later stages, while Kareem slowly got worse.

For the longest time, I had LeBron at number 3 and Kareem at 2. What put LeBron past Kareem for me was his fourth championship run, where even with the opposing teams best player focusing on him and playing in a unique situation where there was no homecourt advantage and thus all teams were on equal footing, LeBron clearly past his prime still found a way to elevate his game, put on an MVP level performance and be the clear cut best player in the NBA Finals to lead his team past Miami, who were without question the weakest team he had ever beaten in a Finals, but still an elite team nonetheless.

It's honestly a coin flip. Like I said before, it's incredibly close for both, and you aren't wrong for choosing one over the other. But to act like it's so obvious that there's no argument on the matter, again, is just idiotic.

Cmon man, he was clearly the best player in 4 out of 6 rings.. He didn't get the FMVP in '80 because of an ankle injury but he was still BY FAR the best player in the series but they couldn't give him the FMVP because he didn't travel.

[RRR3]

In another thread you said it could have been a debate if Melo had better teams which implies you think they’re similar in terms of impact. Don’t play coy now.
He ducked this :lol

[1987_Lakers]

You actually typed this shit out lmao... He was as good/better by the stats and played his best game in the Finals close-out and would have most likely been the FMVP the year before as well if not for Magic choking. Do you know nothing about Lakers' history? He should have won 4 FMVP if not for his ankle injury in '80, he was by far the best player in the '80 Finals, you think rookie Magic was better because of one game?

You seem to place a high value in FMVP in every other argument but in this one it doesn't matter, even though he outplayed everyone in the '85 Finals with 29 on ~64%TS in a road close-out game where both Bird and Magic struggled to score the ball and he blew them away in scoring numbers/efficiency for the series. He had 36/7/7 3 blocks to put them up 3 - 2 in the first place in a close 4th quarter game where the Celtics almost cut it to within 1 score. Him and Mchale were the two best players and playing for FMVP but you'd have known it had you actually done your research.

Tell me, how is a 38 year old Kareem who averaged 22/8/4 in the playoffs as good as peak Bird/Magic who had postseason runs of 27/10/7 and 21/7/12 during their peaks? It seems like you are bringing up years like 1980 & 1984 which I haven't even discussed, you are dancing around the topic at hand.

And I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Magic was at his peak in '87-'89, so you saying Kareem outplayed Magic in '85 doesn't prove your point that a 38 year old Kareem was as good as peak Magic. Even though many people including myself believe Magic was the Lakers best player in '85, Kareem just had a better Finals.

[1987_Lakers]

Cmon man, he was clearly the best player in 4 out of 6 rings.. He didn't get the FMVP in '80 because of an ankle injury but he was still BY FAR the best player in the series but they couldn't give him the FMVP because he didn't travel.

He was CLEARLY the best player in 2 title runs, '71 & '80. In my view '82 is pretty much a coin flip and by '85 Magic surpassed him as a player.

[ShawkFactory]

There's no debate. Lebron had the better career. Now, can you please give me a solid argument for Lebron over Kareem?

You think their respective careers are why Lebron is higher? You don’t think he was/is a better player?

[ShawkFactory]

Lol, magic throughly outplayed peak Bird overall in the 3 finals they matched up, numbers aren’t close. Even in 84 he had better numbers despite the narrative the media pushed about tragic
Magic I believe. In top of that magic was 3 years younger.

Lol Bird was ABSOLUTELY better than Magic in the 84 series.

Wtf :lol

[ImKobe]

Tell me, how is a 38 year old Kareem who averaged 22/8/4 in the playoffs as good as peak Bird/Magic who had postseason runs of 27/10/7 and 21/7/12 during their peaks? It seems like you are bringing up years like 1980 & 1984 which I haven't even discussed, you are dancing around the topic at hand.

And I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Magic was at his peak in '87-'89, so you saying Kareem outplayed Magic in '85 doesn't prove your point that a 38 year old Kareem was as good as peak Magic. Even though many people including myself believe Magic was the Lakers best player in '85, Kareem just had a better Finals.

He was the best player in the biggest series and the biggest game of the biggest series. You'd make that argument for anyone else but in this case I guess that doesn't matter. And we're not talking about a mickey mouse series either where the opposing team is decimated by injuries and it's a freebie.

If we go by your logic (since you don't believe in FMVP), Davis was the best player on the 2020 Lakers and Lebron has 3 rings as the best player on his team.. so either way Kareem still comes out winning, you can shift the goal posts any way you like.

[ImKobe]

You think their respective careers are why Lebron is higher? You don’t think he was/is a better player?

It's hard to compare but Kareem was a dominant scorer and the best defensive player at the same time at his peak and I don't think they're close in terms of impact on that end of the court. DPOY wasn't a thing before 82 so he missed out on that.

[ShawkFactory]

It's hard to compare but Kareem was a dominant scorer and the best defensive player at the same time at his peak and I don't think they're close in terms of impact on that end of the court. DPOY wasn't a thing before 82 so he missed out on that.

I was talking about Melo.

I actually have Kareem ahead of Lebron

[1987_Lakers]

If we go by your logic (since you don't believe in FMVP), Davis was the best player on the 2020 Lakers and Lebron has 3 rings as the best player on his team.. so either way Kareem still comes out winning, you can shift the goal posts any way you like.

Not really, considering LeBron finished 2nd in MVP voting in 2020 while AD didn't even finish top 5 and his own coach said he was the best player on the team.

Similar to Magic who also finished 2nd in MVP voting in '85 behind Bird.

[RRR3]

I was talking about Melo.

I actually have Kareem ahead of Lebron
https://i.ibb.co/YjRbyHt/263795-AD-BE23-4-B0-A-8-A8-E-6745-B39596-BC.jpg

[ImKobe]

I was talking about Melo.

I actually have Kareem ahead of Lebron

Not once did I say Melo was actually better. He did get dealt a shitty hand in terms of supporting casts because he played in the West and then going to NY with Amare getting injured shortly after but that was more in response to the troll who said that Melo played on superteams and the win percentage chart thing that was really misleading too.

[ImKobe]

https://i.ibb.co/YjRbyHt/263795-AD-BE23-4-B0-A-8-A8-E-6745-B39596-BC.jpg

Melo did deserve ROY and he did play in the Wild Wild West and for mostly mediocre teams while playing Spurs/Lakers in most of his 1st round series vs. Lebron playing against mostly trashcans with mediocre offenses out East.

[1987_Lakers]

It's hard to compare but Kareem was a dominant scorer and the best defensive player at the same time at his peak and I don't think they're close in terms of impact on that end of the court. DPOY wasn't a thing before 82 so he missed out on that.

This is how I know you don't know your history well enough, Kareem was a dominant defender, but when he hit his peak in '77, Walton was considered the superior defender. Hell, old man Wilt was beating out Kareem on defensive-teams in the early 70's.

[RRR3]

Melo did deserve ROY and he did play in the Wild Wild West and for mostly mediocre teams while playing Spurs/Lakers in most of his 1st round series vs. Lebron playing against mostly trashcans with mediocre offenses out East.
:roll:

It’s hilarious you can’t see why we’re all laughing at you right now lmao

[ImKobe]

This is how I know you don't know your history well enough, Kareem was a dominant defender, but when he hit his peak in '77, Walton was considered the superior defender.

Depends on what you think his peak was, and Walton only played at a high level for a very short period of time. Kareem led the Playoffs in rpg & bpg, the Lakers choked that Portland series though so I'll give Bill the nod that year. Kareem definitely would have won some DPOYs if that award existed.

[1987_Lakers]

Depends on what you think his peak was, and Walton only played at a high level for a very short period of time. Kareem led the Playoffs in rpg & bpg, the Lakers choked that Portland series though so I'll give Bill the nod that year. Kareem definitely would have won some DPOYs if that award existed.

Maybe he wins a DPOY in the mid 70's when Wilt & Walton were not relevant, who knows, but a healthy Walton was infact a better defender in every way shape and form, a superior communicator, put more effort, and contested shots at a higher level than Kareem.

As dominant as Kareem was at his peak, as a defender he will always be looked at a tier below guys like Russell, Walton, Hakeem, Duncan, D-Rob etc.

[dankok8]

Kareem has two rings as the best player (1971, 1980), two rings as the co-best player (1982, 1985) and two rings as a supporting player (1987. 1988). Lebron has three rings as the best player (2012, 2013, 2016) and one ring as the co-best player (2020).

I personally put very little weight on rings as a supporting player so I'd call it a tie between the two of them in terms of taking teams to titles. Both are far behind Russell and Jordan in that regard.

As for DPOY's Kareem would have definitely won a few if the award existed. 1974, 1976, 1977, 1979 and 1980 are all very good candidates. He wins around 2-3 DPOY in those seasons IMO.

[Lebron23]

Solid Lists

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe 4th?, Lebron 2nd? Skip has him 9th which is more accurate

[Axe]

Curry is too high. #21 is more like it.