I hate to say it but the warriors are going to the finals

[Bronbron23]

So many teams playing an inferior brand of basketball atm. Warriors still move the ball with the best of them all time while most teams still play more of a ball dominant style. All things being equal a team with alot of movement will almost always beat a ball dominant team and as soon as klay and weisman return the warriors roster will be as good as almost anyone. The only teams in the west with more talent will be the lakers, clippers and maybe Phoenix but i dought lakers and clippers will be fully healthy come playoff time. Phoenix with cp3 could also have injury issues and even if they're healthy i don't know if they're better than a healthy warriors squad.

I'm not a steph fan but his willingness to play off ball alot and be a decoy or not always have the ball in his hands allows for optimal movement and offensive production. He's the most unselfish superstar in the game by far.

That all said i'm not sure they win it all. Both the heat and the bucks defensively match up well with the warriors and both of those teams also move the ball well. I could see the bucs especially giving the warriors some issues.

[RRR3]

Well if you said it, it’s definitely not happening.

[tontoz]

It's a bit early to make that call lol.

Their biggest problem for years has been turnovers and it is still a problem. They rank 25th in turnover rate. Careless turnovers can be a killer in the playoffs.

[000]

"I hate to say it"

bro.

[Bronbron23]

Well if you said it, it’s definitely not happening.

That's cool bro. I don't like the warriors anyway so it looks like either way it's a win win for me:banana:

[Phoenix]

They have a good shot if Klay can return to close to form, and because everyone has basically written them off in recent years they have alot of extra motivation.

[imdaman99]

They have a good shot if Klay can return to close to form, and because everyone has basically written them off in recent years they have alot of extra motivation.

Klay as Larry Bird was corny yet still entertaining. If Klay can come back as Larry Legend, I see no one stopping them.

[hold this L]

Too many variables
- Does Klay come back at a B-level of his old self
- Will Poole elevate his game as the 3rd scorer/solid playmaker
- health

[Bronbron23]

It's a bit early to make that call lol.

Their biggest problem for years has been turnovers and it is still a problem. They rank 25th in turnover rate. Careless turnovers can be a killer in the playoffs.

True but it was a problem even when they were going to finals and winning chips. Plus how many more turnovers are warriors making compared to the other top teams in the west? The Warriors get 16 a game. The lakers also get 16. The jazz get 15. Phoenix gets 14 and clippers get 13. We're talking one or two possessions if that and i don't think most of the games are gonna come down to one or two possessions but we'll see. It's a solid point though. If clippers are healthy i could definitely see some close games between them. I just have no faith at all that kawhi will be healthy.

[SouBeachTalents]

There are some seasons you could make a prediction like this 2 weeks into the season, and, for at least one of the conferences, you'd have a good chance of being correct. In the 2010's almost every LeBron team was a huge favorite to win the East, ditto the Warriors at the end of the decade.

But this year? Nobody has a clue how this season is going to play out, esp this early. I don't think any team particularly stands out talent wise, and there are way too many key guys out with injury or other issues like Kawhi, Kyrie, Murray, Klay, Simmons etc. to make that determination. Nobody has any idea what these guys' status is going to be 6 months from now.

If forced to pick right now, I'd go with Brooklyn out East, though with Kyrie out indefinitely and the way Harden's looked this year that's far from some guarantee. And the West is an absolute tossup, I have no idea what any of the contenders will look like come playoff time.

[hold this L]

There are some seasons you could make a prediction like this 2 weeks into the season, and, for at least one of the conferences, you'd have a good chance of being correct. In the 2010's almost every LeBron team was a huge favorite to win the East, ditto the Warriors at the end of the decade.

But this year? Nobody has a clue how this season is going to play out, esp this early. I don't think any team particularly stands out talent wise, and there are way too many key guys out with injury or other issues like Kawhi, Kyrie, Murray, Klay, Simmons etc. to make that determination. Nobody has any idea what these guys' status is going to be 6 months from now.

If forced to pick right now, I'd go with Brooklyn out East, though with Kyrie out indefinitely and the way Harden's looked this year that's far from some guarantee. And the West is an absolute tossup, I have no idea what any of the contenders will look like come playoff time.

There's rumors the NY mayor is going to remove the requirements in January, so Kyrie could be back by then.

[tontoz]

Just noticed that they have the best defensve in the league, pretty impressive with "lousy defender" Steph leading them in minutes by far.

[Bronbron23]

Just noticed that they have the best defensve in the league, pretty impressive with "lousy defender" Steph leading them in minutes by far.

It was the same when they were the best team in the league. Great defenders can make up for a defensive liability

[Stephonit]

Checking in to make sure no one is saying they've morphed into a superteam already.

[tontoz]

It was the same when they were the best team in the league. Great defenders can make up for a defensive liability

Or maybe Steph isn't much of a defensive liability. It is pretty hard to have the best defense in the league when the guy playing the most minutes is a bad defender.

Steph is playing 35 minutes per game. The only other guy playing over 30 is Green.

[dankok8]

It will be tough unless Klay comes back as old self and they stay healthy.

[hold this L]

It was the same when they were the best team in the league. Great defenders can make up for a defensive liability

Best defensive rating for a guard into the season = defensive liability.


https://i.gifer.com/3xw5.gif

[000]

It was the same when they were the best team in the league. Great defenders can make up for a defensive liability
great defenders like wiggins and poole and looney and bjelica?

[Bronbron23]

Or maybe Steph isn't much of a defensive liability. It is pretty hard to have the best defense in the league when the guy playing the most minutes is a bad defender.

Steph is playing 35 minutes per game. The only other guy playing over 30 is Green.

Nah that dosn't mean anything. Most great defensive teams have a weak link. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that steph is a liability on that end. I mean we've seen it over and over again. Other teams set screens to get curry on defense for a reason. That said he's not absolute dog shit or anything. Usual when i say he's a bad defender it's relative to an argument comparing steph to mj or bron. Relative to how good they are steph isn't anywhere near that good. Relative to other gaurds in the league steph is mediocre.

[tontoz]

Nah that dosn't mean anything. Most great defensive teams have a weak link. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that steph is a liability on that end. I mean we've seen it over and over again. Other teams set screens to get curry on defense for a reason. That said he's not absolute dog shit or anything. Usual when i say he's a bad defender it's relative to an argument comparing steph to mj or bron. Relative to how good they are steph isn't anywhere near that good. Relative to other gaurds in the league steph is mediocre.


Just because teams target Steph doesn't mean he is a bad defender. It just means that he isn't as good as some other guys on the team.

Relative to the rest of the league i see him as average/slightly below average. I don't see anything that would make me believe he is a bad defender.

Most players in the league would be bad defenders relative to MJ. He was all defense first team 9 times. That is not a reasonable standard.

[Bronbron23]

great defenders like wiggins and poole and looney and bjelica?

Wiggins is actually a pretty good defender since coming to the warriors. Looney and bjelica play about 15 min each. Poole is suspect but once klay comes back he'll be less of a factor. With steph, klay, dray wiggins, and weisman warriors will have a solid starting lineup that can defend and score with the best of them. Deep in the playoffs if they really want to turn it up and play small ball with great defense they can go steph, klay wiggins, iggy and dray.

They also have payton jr on the bench. That might sound weird because he's young and not getting alot of minutes atm but he has alot of potential on the defensive end. Look for him to prove himself over thw duration of the reg season and earn some decent minutes in the post season.

[Bronbron23]

Just because teams target Steph doesn't mean he is a bad defender. It just means that he isn't as good as some other guys on the team.

Relative to the rest of the league i see him as average/slightly below average. I don't see anything that would make me believe he is a bad defender.

Most players in the league would be bad defenders relative to MJ. He was all defense first team 9 times. That is not a reasonable standard.

Cool but yiu basically just said what i said. All i said was he was the weak link which he is and i said he's mediocre relative to the league which you said also. What's the problem?

[hold this L]

Nah that dosn't mean anything. Most great defensive teams have a weak link. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that steph is a liability on that end. I mean we've seen it over and over again. Other teams set screens to get curry on defense for a reason. That said he's not absolute dog shit or anything. Usual when i say he's a bad defender it's relative to an argument comparing steph to mj or bron. Relative to how good they are steph isn't anywhere near that good. Relative to other gaurds in the league steph is mediocre.

Can you respond to my post. Why does he have the best defensive rating for a guard since he's a defensive liability?

[tontoz]

Cool but yiu basically just said what i said. All i said was he was the weak link which he is and i said he's mediocre relative to the league which you said also. What's the problem?


If a player is average they aren't a liability. A bad defender would be a liability. It would be hard for a team to have the best defense in the league when the guy playing the most minutes is a bad defender.

[dankok8]

Steph is not a liability on defense. He's pretty much a neutral defender.

[hold this L]

Cool but yiu basically just said what i said. All i said was he was the weak link which he is and i said he's mediocre relative to the league which you said also. What's the problem?
Who are the elite defenders for the Warriors right now? Are Jordan Poole and Looney elite?

It's a bit weird since liability Steph was out for the whole season in 19-20, you would think the defense would have gotten better right? Oddly enough without liability Steph, they were 25th in DEF RTG. Isn't that odd?

[000]

blah blah blah
no.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

All clippers need is ibaka to return, stay in the 6 seed, and kawhi will return in March. Clippers will beat warriors in a 7 game series.

Kawhi's midrange > curry's 3's in playoffs as you can see with the 2 finals mvps

Paul George > Klay

[Bronbron23]

Best defensive rating for a guard into the season = defensive liability.


https://i.gifer.com/3xw5.gif

It's drtg come on bro you can't be serious that. Drtg is great for analyzing team defense but no so much for individuals. It has many flaws one being that It's heavily influenced by the players around you. That's why steph's drtg fluctuates so much unlike most great defenders who's drtg is pretty consistent. Pretty much when the team drtg is good steph's drtg is good. When the team is bad defensively his drtg is bad.

2014-15 drtg:
Warriors 102
Steph 99

2015-16 drtg:
Warriors 104
Steph 100

2016-17 drtg:
Warriors 105
Steph 103

2017-18 drtg:
Warriors 108
Steph 108

2018-19 drtg:
Warriors 110
Steph 106

2019-20 drtg:
Warriors 115
Steph 124

2020-21 drtg:
Warriors 111
Steph 110

2021-22 drtg:
Warriors 98
Steph 99

So as you can see as the warriors go definitely so does Steph. Clearly he's not a great defender. All you have to do is watch games to see this.

[Bronbron23]

If a player is average they aren't a liability. A bad defender would be a liability. It would be hard for a team to have the best defense in the league when the guy playing the most minutes is a bad defender.

Well i guess we disagree on what a liability is. I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. I think it's fair to say steph hurts his team on defense more than he helps.

And plenty of teams were great defensively while having individual defenders that weren't good. That's why help defense is so important in basketball.

[tontoz]

Well i guess we disagree on what a liability is. I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. I think it's fair to say steph hurts his team on defense more than he helps.

And plenty of teams were great defensively while having individual defenders that weren't good. That's why help defense is so important in basketball.

So if the Warriors were bad on defense then Steph would be an asset on D. Pass on that logic.

I agree about drtg though. It works for teams not so much for individuals. I looked at the formula for individual drtg once. It is a complete clusterf***.

[Bronbron23]

So if the Warriors were bad on defense then Steph would be an asset on D. Pass on that logic.

I agree about drtg though. It works for teams not so much for individuals. I looked at the formula for individual drtg once. It is a complete clusterf***.

Not really what i meant. If warriors were bad on defense he'd still be a liability.

Anyway it dosn't matter about the meaning of liability. Forget the word the point is he's not a great defender and he's one of the warriors weaker defenders. It dosn't mean he sucks and he more than makes up for it on the other end.

[tontoz]

Not really what i meant. If warriors were bad on defense he'd still be a liability.




No he wouldn't be. He would be better than the rest of his team hence he would be an asset on D by your logic.

[Bronbron23]

No he wouldn't be. He would be better than the rest of his team hence he would be an asset on D by your logic.

I don't think i ever said that. I basically said a liability hurts and a asset helps. He's not a liability because he's one of the teams worst defenders. He's a liability because he dosn't really help his team on the defensive end. If he was on a team where he was the best defender than he'd still be a liability.

[LostCause]

If Klay comes back in good health and barring no other big injuries, and Wiseman not only returns but also takes a big step forward and is a positive on both ends as he should be, they’d certainly be contenders

Wiseman has to be a big impact player for them to be successful. He was a big detriment to then offensively when last he played

[tontoz]

I don't think i ever said that. I basically said a liability hurts and a asset helps.

Exactly. Steph is an average defender relative to the rest of the league. If the rest of his team was bad on D then he would be helping them because he isn't bad hence he would be an asset by your definition.

[Bronbron23]

Exactly. Steph is an average defender relative to the rest of the league. If the rest of his team was bad on D then he would be helping them because he isn't bad hence he would be an asset by your definition.

No he wouldn't he'd still not be helping its just that he'd be the lesser of the rest of the evils so to speak. Show me Where did i define is as that. If i did i miss spoke.

[hold this L]

It's drtg come on bro you can't be serious that. Drtg is great for analyzing team defense but no so much for individuals. It has many flaws one being that It's heavily influenced by the players around you. That's why steph's drtg fluctuates so much unlike most great defenders who's drtg is pretty consistent. Pretty much when the team drtg is good steph's drtg is good. When the team is bad defensively his drtg is bad.

2014-15 drtg:
Warriors 102
Steph 99

2015-16 drtg:
Warriors 104
Steph 100

2016-17 drtg:
Warriors 105
Steph 103

2017-18 drtg:
Warriors 108
Steph 108

2018-19 drtg:
Warriors 110
Steph 106

2019-20 drtg:
Warriors 115
Steph 124

2020-21 drtg:
Warriors 111
Steph 110

2021-22 drtg:
Warriors 98
Steph 99

So as you can see as the warriors go definitely so does Steph. Clearly he's not a great defender. All you have to do is watch games to see this.
I never said that he's an elite defender. He's just not a liability and your definition of it makes no sense. If he's a solid defender, that means he's neither a liability nor a plus. He's been part of many defenses that finish in the top 1, top 3, top 5, top 6. Hell when KD joined the team, they fell to 11th for 2 of the 3 seasons. Does that mean KD is not elite defensively? Of course not, they just started getting lazy because of the stacked talent. This was with what is essentially 3 totally different teams, under 2 different coaches.

Well i guess we disagree on what a liability is. I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. I think it's fair to say steph hurts his team on defense more than he helps.

And plenty of teams were great defensively while having individual defenders that weren't good. That's why help defense is so important in basketball.
This is the equivalent of tontoz stating 1 + 1 = 2, and you responding with "well I guess we disagree on what the end result is." What you described is not what liability actually means. At least in the English language.


A liability is Dame, who you can put in an elite defense and that ceiling of that team's D is still at best average because.. he's a liability. And your description of teams putting Steph on bigger guys is also something that you can pull from 2016. Which makes me wonder if 1. you watch baskeball, and 2. you are 2ball's alt. Steph was put in those situations to get him in foul trouble because he had a tendency to reach too much, get him tired so he doesn't destroy teams on the other end, and he struggled vs big wings. The latter if you actually watch Warriors ball, you would know is no longer the case because Steph basically went to the gym after 2016 so that shit doesn't happen anymore. That's why we see him bully ball guards nowadays, he's bigger and stronger (and slower). Doesn't reach as much as before either so if a team is doing that to Steph, it's to tire him out.

[tontoz]

No he wouldn't he'd still not be helping its just that he'd be the lesser of the rest of the evils so to speak. Show me Where did i define is as that. If i did i miss spoke.


You said it very clearly. AN ASSET HELPS. If the rest of his team was bad on D he would be helping them because he would be better than them on D. Hence, he would be helping. Other teams wouldn't be targeting him, they would be targeting his teammates because they are weaker defenders.

I view your logic as nonsense. I think an average defender should be seen as average regardless of whether the rest of his team is good or bad on D.

[Bronbron23]

You said it very clearly. AN ASSET HELPS. If the rest of his team was bad on D he would be helping them because he would be better than them on D. Hence, he would be helping. Other teams wouldn't be targeting him, they would be targeting his teammates because they are weaker defenders.

I view your logic as nonsense. I think an average defender should be seen as average regardless of whether the rest of his team is good or bad on D.

I think your interpreting that in an odd way. Just because your better at something it dosn't mean your helping. Even If he was the best defender he'd still be a liability man.

And i wouldn't call him an average defender but even if he was, an average defender on a team trying to be great defensively would be considered a liability imo. If he was on a team trying to be average defensively than he wouldn't be viewed as a liability. If he was on a team that was shitty defensively than yes being average would be an asset.

Maybe you disagree with my interpretation of a liability but you get the point right?

[tontoz]

I think your interpreting that in an odd way. Just because your better at something it dosn't mean your helping. Even If he was the best defender he'd still be a liability man.

And i wouldn't call him an average defender but even if he was, an average defender on a team trying to be great defensively would be considered a liability imo. If he was on a team trying to be average defensively than he wouldn't be viewed as a liability. If he was on a team that was shitty defensively than yes being average would be an asset.

Maybe you disagree with my interpretation of a liability but you get the point right?


The best defender on the team would be a liability?


:roll:


Isn't it a little early to be drunk?

[Bronbron23]

The best defender on the team would be a liability?


:roll:


Isn't it a little early to be drunk?

I don't know you tell me because clearly your several drinks in if you don't understand this.

Let me try to help you because clearly common sense still evades you. Take 12 of the worst defenders in the game qnd throw them on one team. Now let's say this teams goal is to be one if the better defensive teams in the league but all 12 guys play bad defensively and understandably they fall well short of that goal. Would you not still consider the best of the worst defenders a liability? He didn't help defensively. He just didn't hurt quite as much as the others:confusedshrug:

[tontoz]

I don't know you tell me because clearly your several drinks in if you don't understand this.

Let me try to help you because clearly common sense still evades you. Take 12 of the worst defenders in the game qnd throw them on one team. Now let's say this teams goal is to be one if the better defensive teams in the league but all 12 guys play bad defensively and understandably they fall well short of that goal. Would you not still consider the best of the worst defenders a liability? He didn't help defensively. He just didn't hurt quite as much as the others:confusedshrug:


If you are judging defenders based on good they are relative to the others on the team then the best defender on the team has to be an asset. The defense would be better with him, worse without him. Hence he is helping.

Your whole argument for steph being a liability on defense is that the other guys on the team are better defenders. You can't have it both ways.

If the worst defender on the team (assuming for the sake of argument that it is steph which i doubt) is a liability, then the best defender on the team has to be an asset. You can't have it one way without the other.

[warriorfan]

Steph is not a liability on defense. He's pretty much a neutral defender.

This. Plus the point guard position is the least important to the defense.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If Klay comes back in good health and barring no other big injuries, and Wiseman not only returns but also takes a big step forward and is a positive on both ends as he should be, they’d certainly be contenders

Wiseman has to be a big impact player for them to be successful. He was a big detriment to then offensively when last he played

Oh ok, Wiseman is coming back? Now I know for sure they are not making the finals.

[Bronbron23]

If you are judging defenders based on good they are relative to the others on the team then the best defender on the team has to be an asset.

Your whole argument for steph being a liability on defense is that the other guys on the team are better defenders. You can't have it both ways.

If the worst defender on the team (assuming for the sake of argument that it is steph which i doubt) is a liability, then the best defender on the team has to be an asset. You can't have it one way without the other.

My whole argument isn't that he's a liability because he's one of the worst defenders. That fact is just a side note. He's a liability because he hurts his team on defense more than he helps and as a team who's goal it is to be great defensively he doesn't quite live up to that standard but that's why you have great defenders around him to help.

And the worst defender on a team isn't necessarily an liability any more than the best is an asset. It just depends on the situation. On a team with mj, bron, pip, bill russell and kawhi bron clearly isn't a liability because he's still one of best defenders ever even though he's the worst of the bunch. He still helps more than he hurts he just helps a bit less than the others. On a team with steph, derozan, luka, kerr and dirk clearly steph isn't a asset defensively even though he may be the best defender of the bunch. He still hurts more than he helps he just hurts a bit less than the others.

Anyway we're getting caught up in semantics and the definition of liability when it's meaningless. Point is i view steph a liability on defense because he hurts his team on that end more than he helps. Maybe you disagree on that i Don't know but once again it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

[tontoz]

Point is i view steph a liability on defense because he hurts his team on that end more than he helps. disagree.


That is exactly the problem. You are saying that Steph is a liability because he allegedly hurts the defense. Using that logic the best defender on the team is always helping the team's defense hence he has to be an asset by your definition.

[Bronbron23]

That is exactly the problem. You are saying that Steph is a liability because he allegedly hurts the defense. Using that logic the best defender on the team is always helping the team's defense hence he has to be an asset by your definition.

I disagree that that's automatically applied. I'm not assuming that you are.

[hold this L]

My whole argument isn't that he's a liability because he's one of the worst defenders. That fact is just a side note. He's a liability because he hurts his team on defense more than he helps and as a team who's goal it is to be great defensively he doesn't quite live up to that standard but that's why you have great defenders around him to help.

And the worst defender on a team isn't necessarily an liability any more than the best is an asset. It just depends on the situation. On a team with mj, bron, pip, bill russell and kawhi bron clearly isn't a liability because he's still one of best defenders ever even though he's the worst of the bunch. He still helps more than he hurts he just helps a bit less than the others. On a team with steph, derozan, luka, kerr and dirk clearly steph isn't a asset defensively even though he may be the best defender of the bunch. He still hurts more than he helps he just hurts a bit less than the others.

Anyway we're getting caught up in semantics and the definition of liability when it's meaningless. Point is i view steph a liability on defense because he hurts his team on that end more than he helps. Maybe you disagree on that i Don't know but once again it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

Hey retard.

He currently has the best defensive rating for a guard in the league and his team currently occupy the best defensive rating in the league. How is he hurting them defensively?

[tontoz]

I disagree that that's automatically applied. I'm not assuming that you are.


The best defender in the team helping their defense. That isn't debatable. The defense is better with him, worse without him.

[BigShotBob]

Defense is not Curry's biggest flaw. His biggest flaw is that when his jump shooting abandons him his inbetween game can't carry his team down the stretch. When he takes over it's mostly from three, it's never from inside the 3 point line in crucial moments. I think as of this season he actually went on a stretch of multiple scoreless and or abysmal 4th quarters. Obviously that won't always happen to him but the fact is that he needs to attack defenses in the mid-range and at the rim more.

[Bronbron23]

The best defender in the team helping their defense. That isn't debatable. The defense is better with him, worse without him.

He's not anywhere close to the best defender on the warriors. Not sure what your taking about with that and the defense isn't better with him than without depending on who takes his place. Replace steph with payton jr and they're better defensively.

[hold this L]

Defense is not Curry's biggest flaw. His biggest flaw is that when his jump shooting abandons him his inbetween game can't carry his team down the stretch. When he takes over it's mostly from three, it's never from inside the 3 point line in crucial moments. I think as of this season he actually went on a stretch of multiple scoreless and or abysmal 4th quarters. Obviously that won't always happen to him but the fact is that he needs to attack defenses in the mid-range and at the rim more.

Biggest problem for me is his stupid TOs to be honest. It's annoying how careless he is sometimes.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Defense is not Curry's biggest flaw. His biggest flaw is that when his jump shooting abandons him his inbetween game can't carry his team down the stretch. When he takes over it's mostly from three, it's never from inside the 3 point line in crucial moments. I think as of this season he actually went on a stretch of multiple scoreless and or abysmal 4th quarters. Obviously that won't always happen to him but the fact is that he needs to attack defenses in the mid-range and at the rim more.

He's not a dominant playoff player. He has never averaged 30PPG in the playoffs and has never won a finals mvp.

You can't name 1 dominant playoff player that never even averaged 30PPG or won a finals mvp.

[Axe]

No excuses. Stephen curry has potential players in his team that would propel him in the upcoming playoffs now. That is alongside his old core of klay, draymond and iggy. Anything less than the #3 seed and first finals mvp is shitty.

[Stephonit]

No excuses. Stephen curry has potential players in his team that would propel him in the upcoming playoffs now. That is alongside his old core of klay, draymond and iggy. Anything less than the #3 seed and first finals mvp is shitty.

Fans of other players claim they are playing with G-Leaguers, but with Curry it is actually true. But now anything less than a championship is sh***y? :oldlol:

Curry is held to the highest of standards. I guess it would be appropriate though for the greatest player to ever play the game. Because that's what he would be if he leads this bunch to a championship.

[hold this L]

Fans of other players claim they are playing with G-Leaguers, but with Curry it is actually true. But now anything less than a championship is sh***y? :oldlol:

Curry is held to the highest of standards. I guess it would be appropriate though for the greatest player to ever play the game. Because that's what he would be if he leads this bunch to a championship.

Beginning of the season.. "They'll finished 6-9th". A few weeks later.

"Championship or bust, look at all this minimum players they got"


My only issue with these blow outs is that he might not win his 3rd scoring title at this rate (well.. his shooting is bad so far as well) :(

[Axe]

Fans of other players claim they are playing with G-Leaguers, but with Curry it is actually true. But now anything less than a championship is sh***y? :oldlol:

Curry is held to the highest of standards. I guess it would be appropriate though for the greatest player to ever play the game. Because that's what he would be if he leads this bunch to a championship.
Just a reminder; he still has yet to win a single finals mvp. :yaohappy:

But who'll get it first from his team after iggy and kd did?

[000]

Curry not winning fmvp in 2015 simply proves what a fake and dumb award it is... and by extension also casts doubt on all media awards

Seriously, how low IQ must you folks be to not understand that

[ImKobe]

Defense is not Curry's biggest flaw. His biggest flaw is that when his jump shooting abandons him his inbetween game can't carry his team down the stretch. When he takes over it's mostly from three, it's never from inside the 3 point line in crucial moments. I think as of this season he actually went on a stretch of multiple scoreless and or abysmal 4th quarters. Obviously that won't always happen to him but the fact is that he needs to attack defenses in the mid-range and at the rim more.

He's a great mid-range shooter though. I don't think those shots are there with how much attention the defenses give him. Last year, he shot 54.9%FG from 10-16 FT, 13.6% of his shots came from that area according to BBref. He can definitely hold his own on D, Warriors are #1 right now and he has a 96 DRTG, they were 5th last year.


Curry not winning fmvp in 2015 simply proves what a fake and dumb award it is... and by extension also casts doubt on all media awards

Seriously, how low IQ must you folks be to not understand that

When people like Rachel Nichols vote on the award, it should not be taken seriously. I have 0 doubt in my mind that Lebron's camp manipulated that vote too. The media push was insane considering how inefficient Lebron was and how bad he played when he had the opportunity to go up 3 - 1 in the series. Steph took that series over for the last 3 games and got no respect for it.

[tontoz]

He's not anywhere close to the best defender on the warriors. Not sure what your taking about with that and the defense isn't better with him than without depending on who takes his place. Replace steph with payton jr and they're better defensively.


Jesus Christ you are a.dumbass. I never said Steph was the best defender on the team you fking moron.

Your standard is a guy who hurts the defense is a liability and a guy who helps the defense is an asset. Your words.

Yet somehow you also said that the best defender on a team can also be a liability which is moronic even by your standards. The best defender on a team is helping the defense therefore he is an asset.by your definition, unless you are trying to create a new language that doesn't resemble English.

[Baller789]

Jesus Christ you are a.dumbass. I never said Steph was the best defender on the team you fking moron.

Your standard is a guy who hurts the defense is a liability and a guy who helps the defense is an asset. Your words.

Yet somehow you also said that the best defender on a team can also be a liability which is moronic even by your standards. The best defender on a team is helping the defense therefore he is an asset.by your definition, unless you are trying to create a new language that doesn't resemble English.

U mad brah? :biggums:

[RRR3]

Fans of other players claim they are playing with G-Leaguers, but with Curry it is actually true. But now anything less than a championship is sh***y? :oldlol:

Curry is held to the highest of standards. I guess it would be appropriate though for the greatest player to ever play the game. Because that's what he would be if he leads this bunch to a championship.
Meth

[Bronbron23]

Jesus Christ you are a.dumbass. I never said Steph was the best defender on the team you fking moron.

Your standard is a guy who hurts the defense is a liability and a guy who helps the defense is an asset. Your words.

Yet somehow you also said that the best defender on a team can also be a liability which is moronic even by your standards. The best defender on a team is helping the defense therefore he is an asset.by your definition, unless you are trying to create a new language that doesn't resemble English.

Relax buddy didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch.

And yes dummy the best defender out of a shit pile can still be a liability. Are u really this dumb? The best defender on a team is not helping the team defensively if he still sucks defensively. That dosn't make him an asset it just makes him less of a liability than the others but he's still a liability. Please tell me your not this dumb?

[Bronbron23]

U mad brah? :biggums:

He's always mad man. Clearly he's a midget with a micro p*nis and brain to match:roll:

[tontoz]

Relax buddy didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch.

And yes dummy the best defender out of a shit pile can still be a liability. Are u really this dumb? The best defender on a team is not helping the team defensively if he still sucks defensively. That dosn't make him an asset it just makes him less of a liability than the others but he's still a liability. Please tell me your not this dumb?


No that simply isn't possible. That is like saying up is down and down is down. Both can't possibly be true.

If a team gives up fewer points when a guy is on the floor then he is helping the defense. That is a fact plain and simple. It isn't a matter of opinion.

If a team gives up 2 more points when a player plays he is hurting the defense, but he is hurting it less than a guy who has a defensive +/- of +5.

[Bronbron23]

No that simply isn't possible. That is like saying up is down and down is down. Both can't possibly be true.

If a team gives up fewer points when a guy is on the floor then he is helping the defense. That is a fact plain and simple. It isn't a matter of opinion.

If a team gives up 2 more points when a player plays he is hurting the defense, but he is hurting it less than a guy who has a defensive +/- of +5.

Right but we're talking about it in terms of a liability. The debate wasn't do they ever help on defense? Of course they help sometimes and hurt sometimes but when discussing someone's defense in term of a liability they would have to help more than they hurt. Do you know what a liability and a asset are? I'm a financial planner so i have a pretty good understanding of it. I know he helps at times. Last night he had a couple nice blocks that would clearly go in the help category. He also got roasted on the defensive end numerous times and as usual had some defensive lapses which i would put in the hurt category. At the end of the day or season rather my belief is that he hurts more than he helps defensively. That's why i say he's a liability.

So if your argument is he helps more than he hurts defensively than that's fair. I obviously disagree but at least you'd be making sense as far as whether he's a liability or not.

[tontoz]

I am not talking about Steph specifically. I am talking about your contention that

"If he helps the defense he is an asset, if he hurts the defense the is a liability"

Specifically how do you determine if someone is helping or hurting the defense?

[Bronbron23]

I am not talking about Steph specifically. I am talking about your contention that

"If he helps the defense he is an asset, if he hurts the defense the is a liability"

Specifically how do you determine if someone is helping or hurting the defense?


When i say if he helps in terms of a liability i mean is he helping more than he's hurting. Maybe i should of clarified that but i thought it was implied.

As far as how do i know? I don't forsure. It's just an opinion based on watching him play. It's no different then your opinion that he helps more than he hurts by watching him play or whoever play. Unfortunately reg defensive stats and advanced stats don't really tell us this so eye test is all we have so obviously it's subjective.

[tontoz]

When i say if he helps in terms of a liability i mean is he helping more than he's hurting. Maybe i should of clarified that but i thought it was implied.

As far as how do i know? I don't forsure. It's just an opinion based on watching him play. It's no different then your opinion that he helps more than he hurts by watching him play or whoever play. Unfortunately reg defensive stats and advanced stats don't really tell us this so eye test is all we have so obviously it's subjective.


Jesus. Again with Steph. I said specifically I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STEPH. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?



I am not talking about Steph specifically. I am talking about your contention that

"If he helps the defense he is an asset, if he hurts the defense the is a liability"

Specifically how do you determine if someone is helping or hurting the defense?

[Bronbron23]

Jesus. Again with Steph. I said specifically I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STEPH. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

Yeah bud that's why i put in "whoever" just take what i said and apply it to anyone. Damn it really isn't rocket science

[Bronbron23]

Jesus. Again with Steph. I said specifically I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STEPH. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

Funny thing is i initially didn't put in whoever but i edited it and put it in because i knew you'd have a hard time applying the logic beyond steph because common sense clearly isn't a strength of yours. It didn't matter though you still couldn't put 2 and 2 together:oldlol:

[tontoz]

Funny thing is i initially didn't put in whoever but i edited it and put it in because i knew you'd have a hard time applying the logic beyond steph because common sense clearly isn't a strength of yours. It didn't matter though you still couldn't put 2 and 2 together:oldlol:

You said him or he literally 7 times lmao, clearly referring to steph, when i was asking for your criteria not about Steph.

But at least you acknowledge that you have no objective criteria at all. You just make it up entirely based on opinion. Glad we got that straightened out.

[Bronbron23]

You said him or he literally 7 times lmao, clearly referring to steph, when i was asking for your criteria not about Steph.

But at least you acknowledge that you have no objective criteria at all. You just make it up entirely based on opinion. Glad we got that straightened out.

Yup and then i said whoever so your little brain would know to apply it to anyone and everyone. Not my fault you couldn't do that.

And what criteria is there to use exactly when talking about steph or "whoever" that's on a similar defensive level? If it was a good defender like kawhi we could use defensive teams or even advanced defensive stats because great defenders advanced stats are consistent so it usually suggests it's reliable. Steph dosn't have any defensive accolades. His advanced defensive stats like drtg are all over the place so what exactly would you suggest we use other than the eye test which to a degree can be a useful measure. Are you that practical that you dont think people can't evaluate skill and talent by watching? Uf so how in the hell do coaches evaluate and pick teams all over the world? Do they not use the eye test?

[tontoz]

Yup and then i said whoever so your little brain would know to apply it to anyone and everyone. Not my fault you couldn't do that.

And what criteria is there to use exactly when talking about steph or "whoever" that's on a similar defensive level? If it was a good defender like kawhi we could use defensive teams or even advanced defensive stats because great defenders advanced stats are consistent so it usually suggests it's reliable. Steph dosn't have any defensive accolades. His advanced defensive stats like drtg are all over the place so what exactly would you suggest we use other than the eye test which to a degree can be a useful measure. Are you that practical that you dont think people can't evaluate skill and talent by watching? Uf so how in the hell do coaches evaluate and pick teams all over the world? Do they not use the eye test?

I asked specifically for your criteria and you start talking about Steph. The eye test is subjective and can't really be used league wide because none of us watch that many games and we aren't professionals.

Coaches and scouts watch games for a living, and study game film in detail, so the eye test has some validity for them.

As far as judging players defensively it really isnt that hard. First you can look at the team's defensive efficiency to see how the team ranks relative the the rest of the league. Team drtg is a very good stat. Personally i dismiss individual drtg.

Then you can look at the defensive +/- (assuming a large sample size) within the team to see how the players rank relative to each other.

For example lets say a guy has a defensive +/- of +2, meaning that the team gives up 2 more ppg when he is playing. If the team is bad defensively then we safely assume he is a bad defender. If the team is good defensively then he is probably close to an average defender.

Not that difficult. There can be anomalies when someone is an abnormally good or bad defender, the person subbing for them can have their +/- skewed by that. Also +/- needs a big sample size to be accurate.

[Bronbron23]

I asked specifically for your criteria and you start talking about Steph. The eye test is subjective and can't really be used league wide because none of us watch that many games and we aren't professionals.

Coaches and scouts watch games for a living, and study game film in detail, so the eye test has some validity for them.

As far as judging players defensively it really isnt that hard. First you can look at the team's defensive efficiency to see how the team ranks relative the the rest of the league. Team drtg is a very good stat. Personally i dismiss individual drtg.

Then you can look at the defensive +/- (assuming a large sample size) within the team to see how the players rank relative to each other.

For example lets say a guy has a defensive +/- of +2, meaning that the team gives up 2 more ppg when he is playing. If the team is bad defensively then we safely assume he is a bad defender. If the team is good defensively then he is probably close to an average defender.

Not that difficult. There can be anomalies when someone is an abnormally good or bad defender, the person subbing for them can have their +/- skewed by that. Also +/- needs a big sample size to be accurate.

I gave you the criteria dude. Accolades and advanced stats which is the exact shit you highlighted when you talked about plus minus. Did i not say advanced stats? Is plus minus not advanced stats? Plus minus has the same fault as drtg btw.

As far as steph is concerned all we really have is eye test or testimonials from other experts, players and coaches which all seem to be divided when it comes to steph.

Your take on steph is no different than mine dude. You already acknowledged drtg isn't great for evaluating individual defensive impact. Plus minus isn't great for the same reason so i'll ask again what are we supposed to use for someone like steph other than the eye test? Sure we're not professionals but who ever said we were? Were just fans debating the topic and there's nothing wrong with having an opinion based on eye test. It really isn't that serious dude. Man you'd be a downer at the local barber shop when talking sports:oldlol:

[3ba11]

I'm happy for you Warriorsfan.. btw, Curry in my latest top 10

[tontoz]

I gave you the criteria dude. Accolades and advanced stats which is the exact shit you highlighted when you talked about plus minus. Did i not say advanced stats? Is plus minus not advanced stats? Plus minus has the same fault as drtg btw.

As far as steph is concerned all we really have is eye test or testimonials from other experts, players and coaches which all seem to be divided when it comes to steph.

Your take on steph is no different than mine dude. You already acknowledged drtg isn't great for evaluating individual defensive impact. Plus minus isn't great for the same reason so i'll ask again what are we supposed to use for someone like steph other than the eye test? Sure we're not professionals but who ever said we were? Were just fans debating the topic and there's nothing wrong with having an opinion based on eye test. It really isn't that serious dude. Man you'd be a downer at the local barber shop when talking sports:oldlol:


+/- isn't even remotely similar to individual DRTG. Individual +/- is pretty simple. Individual drtg is....not simple (formula at the bottom).

We have years of data on Steph defensively but again it isnt about Steph. I repeat it isn't about Steph. This is a recording. It isn't about Steph.

You said "A player is an asset if he helps the defense, a liability when he hurts the defense".

Then somehow you said the best defender on the team can be a liability which makes no sense. So i ask for your criteria on how you determine who is hurting the defense and helping the defense and you come up with...the eye test?

So i ask again how do you determine who is an asset and who is a liability? Dont say Steph this Steph that again. Don't say advanced stats because there are a lot of them. What specifically other than the eye test are you looking at?



Here is how individual DRTG is calculated. Seriously:

Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)

[Bronbron23]

+/- isn't even remotely similar to individual DRTG. Individual +/- is pretty simple. Individual drtg is....not simple (formula at the bottom).

We have years of data on Steph defensively but again it isnt about Steph. I repeat it isn't about Steph. This is a recording. It isn't about Steph.

You said "A player is an asset if he helps the defense, a liability when he hurts the defense".

Then somehow you said the best defender on the team can be a liability which makes no sense. So i ask for your criteria on how you determine who is hurting the defense and helping the defense and you come up with...the eye test?

So i ask again how do you determine who is an asset and who is a liability? Dont say Steph this Steph that again. Don't say advanced stats because there are a lot of them. What specifically other than the eye test are you looking at?



Here is how individual DRTG is calculated. Seriously:

Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)

Your whole argument is based on an fallacy. I didn't say if he helps he's an asset if he hurts he's a liability. I've already explained this to you.

As far as how do i judge a players individual impact i look at accolades and advanced stats. With advanced stats it's tricky because team defense impacts individual defense. The best way to to minimize the variables is to look for consistency with something like drtg fir example. Most good defenders have low career drtg because they consistently have low drtg stats each season. To answer the question though i use the same thing i use for offense. Stats, accolades and eye test. I form my opinion off that. Again it's just a opinion dude. There's often to many variables when it comes to stats, accolades and eye test to say for certain so at the end if the day most of this shit is opinion. Why do u think everyone argues about everything when it comes to sports even though we have all the data in the world to determine shit.

So to answer this question pertaining to Steph i think he's a liability defensively and i base this on his high career drtg and inconsistent defensive stats. I also base this on the fact thay he's never came anywhere close to getting a defensive accolade. I also base it on what i see from him defensively when i watch a game.

You think steph is an asset defensively. What do you base that on? From what i gather you use advanced defensive stats other than drtg?

[tontoz]

Your whole argument is based on an fallacy. I didn't say if he helps he's an asset if he hurts he's a liability. I've already explained this to you.

As far as how do i judge a players individual impact i look at accolades and advanced stats. With advanced stats it's tricky because team defense impacts individual defense. The best way to to minimize the variables is to look for consistency with something like drtg fir example. Most good defenders have low career drtg because they consistently have low drtg stats each season. To answer the question though i use the same thing i use for offense. Stats, accolades and eye test. I form my opinion off that. Again it's just a opinion dude. There's often to many variables when it comes to stats, accolades and eye test to say for certain so at the end if the day most of this shit is opinion. Why do u think everyone argues about everything when it comes to sports even though we have all the data in the world to determine shit.

So to answer this question pertaining to Steph i think he's a liability defensively and i base this on his high career drtg and inconsistent defensive stats. I also base this on the fact thay he's never came anywhere close to getting a defensive accolade. I also base it on what i see from him defensively when i watch a game.

You think steph is an asset defensively. What do you base that on? From what i gather you use advanced defensive stats other than drtg?


Of course you had to work Steph's name in there no matter how many times i said it isn't about Steph.

:facepalm

And of course i never said Steph is an asset you are just making stuff up or you just can't read.

Accolades is no answer because they are given out to so few people.

And this is your exact quote from page 2.




Well i guess we disagree on what a liability is. I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. I think it's fair to say steph hurts his team on defense more than he helps.

And plenty of teams were great defensively while having individual defenders that weren't good. That's why help defense is so important in basketball.



Then you turn around and deny you said that. Or more likely you just forgot.

Back to the filter. You are just too dumb.

[Bronbron23]

Of course you had to work Steph's name in there no matter how many times i said it isn't about Steph.

:facepalm

And of course i never said Steph is an asset you are just making stuff up or you just can't read.

Accolades is no answer because they are given out to so few people.

And this is your exact quote from page 2.




Then you turn around and deny you said that. Or more likely you just forgot.

Back to the filter. You are just too dumb.

Dude why didn't you highlight the part after that where i said he hurts them more than he helps? That's the difference but apparently your just ignoring that key fact.

And the topic is about Steph so yes i worked it in there. I gave you the answer you wanted without steph also.

And i didn't deny anything. It's right there in the paragraph you quoted dummy. "Steph hurts his team more than he helps": thanks for proving me right

And i answered your question so answer mine. Why do you say steph is an asset defensively

[tontoz]

Dude why didn't you highlight the part after that where i said he hurts them more than he helps? That's the difference but apparently your just ignoring that key fact.

And the topic is about Steph so yes i worked it in there. I gave you the answer you wanted without steph also.

And i didn't deny anything. It's right there in the paragraph you quoted dummy. "Steph hurts his team more than he helps": thanks for proving me right

And i answered your question so answer mine. Why do you say steph is an asset defensively


Where did i say Steph was an asset defensively? That world inside your head must be a strange place. You literally make something up and pretend i said it. I literally said he was roughly average/slightly below average.

If the rest of the team was crap defensively then he would be an asset because he would be the best defender on the team. But that isnt reality that is a hypothetical.


You specifically said "I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. "

Then you turn around and deny that you said it. Then of course you have to go into the Steph this Steph that Steph this Steph that Steph this Steph that nonsense as if that changes anything.

[Bronbron23]

Where did i say Steph was an asset defensively? That world inside your head must be a strange place. You literally make something up and pretend i said it. I literally said he was roughly average/slightly below average.

If the rest of the team was crap defensively then he would be an asset because he would be the best defender on the team. But that isnt reality that is a hypothetical.


You specifically said "I'd say that a liability is something that hurts you at times and an asset is something that helps. "

Then you turn around and deny that you said it. Then of course you have to go into the Steph this Steph that Steph this Steph that Steph this Steph that nonsense as if that changes anything.

Dude i immediately clarified in the same paragraph helping more than hurting. I then clarified it several times after when you kept bringing that up so your just playing dumb.

And you did say he was an average defender but i thought you also said he was an asset. Both things can be true but if you didn't say that it's all good i gotcha.

So answer the question then what makes you say he's an average defender? What are you basing that on?

[tontoz]

Dude i immediately clarified in the same paragraph helping more than hurting. I then clarified it several times after when you kept bringing that up so your just playing dumb.

And you did say he was an average defender but i thought you also said he was an asset. Both things can be true but if you didn't say that it's all good i gotcha.

So answer the question then what makes you say he's an average defender? What are you basing that on?


Very simple. Just looking at last year GS was 5th in the league defensively. Their defense was slightly worse with him on the court so i see that as pointing to him being average defensively.

Fittingly his DRPM last year was .10. I don't know the actual formula ESPN is using though.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2021/position/1

And I think you asset/liability criteria is nonsense. You can't even articulate it without bringing up Steph's name which shows as much.

[SaintzFury13]

You don't lead the league in steals at one point while being a defensive liability. People seem to have this impression that because Curry couldn't guard Irving, he was suddenly a poor defender. Even Klay Thompson struggled to guard that man. Obviously Curry isn't elite. But he is good at playing the passing lanes and has decent defensive positioning. His biggest struggle has always been playing one on one defense. And he doesn't have the length or size to make up for that so he's never going to truly be an elite defender unless he improves on his instincts. And at this point in his career, I don't think that's likely.

[Bronbron23]

Very simple. Just looking at last year GS was 5th in the league defensively. Their defense was slightly worse with him on the court so i see that as pointing to him being average defensively.

Fittingly his DRPM last year was .10. I don't know the actual formula ESPN is using though.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2021/position/1

And I think you asset/liability criteria is nonsense. You can't even articulate it without bringing up Steph's name which shows as much.


i did articulate it without steph at first and than gave you an example with steph after. Your weird brain just saw the word steph and malfunctioned.

Again it's not rocket science dude. I think a player is a liability defensively if he hurts the team more than he helps it on that end. The way i determine that is by stats, accolades and eye test. You don't have to agree or like it and that's fine. You can believe whatever you want . Apparently you believe a player is average if the team is only slightly worse with them on the floor. I don't know how that rational is any better than mine but it's all good man it really dosn't matter. We're splitting hairs when it comes to that light skin dude who can shoot lol. You think he's average i think he's a little below average. Either way he's not a good defender whether or not he's a liability or not dosn't really matter and it's impossible for either of us to prove otherwise.

[Bronbron23]

You don't lead the league in steals at one point while being a defensive liability. People seem to have this impression that because Curry couldn't guard Irving, he was suddenly a poor defender. Even Klay Thompson struggled to guard that man. Obviously Curry isn't elite. But he is good at playing the passing lanes and has decent defensive positioning. His biggest struggle has always been playing one on one defense. And he doesn't have the length or size to make up for that so he's never going to truly be an elite defender unless he improves on his instincts. And at this point in his career, I don't think that's likely.

I disagree man. Steals aren't like points, assists or rebounds. He lead the league with 2 steals a game. In a game with hundreds of defensive plays 2 steals aren't that significant. Most of his steals are from him roaming and playing the lanes. Part of the reason for this is he struggles defending one on one ad you pointed out so letting him roam a bit and play passing lanes or doubling the ball helping another defender makes more sense.

He does give a good effort defensively though i'll give him that. It's definitely not something he dosn't care about. You can tell he wants to be better on that end and this year so far he actually dosn't look as bad as usual. The Seasons only a handful of games in though so for now i'm basing his defense on his career up until this point. If he continues to play better defense this year i'll give credit where credit is do.

[tontoz]

i did articulate it without steph at first and than gave you an example with steph after. Your weird brain just saw the word steph and malfunctioned.

Again it's not rocket science dude. I think a player is a liability defensively if he hurts the team more than he helps it on that end. The way i determine that is by stats, accolades and eye test. You don't have to agree or like it and that's fine. You can believe whatever you want . Apparently you believe a player is average if the team is only slightly worse with them on the floor. I don't know how that rational is any better than mine but it's all good man it really dosn't matter. We're splitting hairs when it comes to that light skin dude who can shoot lol. You think he's average i think he's a little below average. Either way he's not a good defender whether or not he's a liability or not dosn't really matter and it's impossible for either of us to prove otherwise.


You never articulated your asset/liability theory without mentioning Steph. You always fall back on the Steph this Steph that.

You can't even say what hurting/helping the team means. Somehow you think the best defender on a team can hurt the team defense which is just bizarre.

[hold this L]

You never articulated your asset/liability theory without mentioning Steph. You always fall back on the Steph this Steph that.

You can't even say what hurting/helping the team means. Somehow you think the best defender on a team can hurt the team defense which is just bizarre.

The guy is either a wind merchant and a mouth breathing moron. Already got asked that Steph is playing elite defense right now (no way this keeps up all season, need his offense more), and he completely ignores it by stating he is hurting them defensively. Many factual data to back what he offers, and he ignores it.

[Bronbron23]

The guy is either a wind merchant and a mouth breathing moron. Already got asked that Steph is playing elite defense right now (no way this keeps up all season, need his offense more), and he completely ignores it by stating he is hurting them defensively. Many factual data to back what he offers, and he ignores it.

No actually i said at the moment he's playing pretty good defence but that it's early and in general for his career he's been a liability. Nothing to get butt hurt about dude. Clearly your just salty because steph will never be considered anywhere close to the best player ever. He will however go down as a top 20 all time. Possibly a top 15 depending on what happens over the next few years.

Man you guys are sensitive like females. The thread was literally giving steph props for his impact offensively and being unselfish allowing for optimal team offense. So what if i think he's mediocre defensively. This isn't a hot take plenty of people including players and experts have said tge same.

It's sat bruh. Have a drink and a Ritalin pill and chill the hell out

[Bronbron23]

You never articulated your asset/liability theory without mentioning Steph. You always fall back on the Steph this Steph that.

You can't even say what hurting/helping the team means. Somehow you think the best defender on a team can hurt the team defense which is just bizarre.

Yes i did you keep saying that but i already did. I've explained everything you said i didn't but this is what u do. Keep repeating the same b.s until someone just gives up. Your an idiot dude and stubborn as hell. Your dumbass still probably thinks all antivaxers are dumb. There's no reasoning with tools like u

[Stephonit]

The record suggests that having Steph on the team increases the overall defensive potential of the team.

Whatever theories people may have that is the actual result.

[hold this L]

No actually i said at the moment he's playing pretty good defence but that it's early and in general for his career he's been a liability. Nothing to get butt hurt about dude. Clearly your just salty because steph will never be considered anywhere close to the best player ever. He will however go down as a top 20 all time. Possibly a top 15 depending on what happens over the next few years.

Man you guys are sensitive like females. The thread was literally giving steph props for his impact offensively and being unselfish allowing for optimal team offense. So what if i think he's mediocre defensively. This isn't a hot take plenty of people including players and experts have said tge same.

It's sat bruh. Have a drink and a Ritalin pill and chill the hell out

You argue like a woman whose losing an argument. An absolute clown.

[Bronbron23]

The record suggests that having Steph on the team increases the overall defensive potential of the team.

Whatever theories people may have that is the actual result.

That's fair

[Bronbron23]

You argue like a woman whose losing an argument. An absolute clown.

How would fakkit ass know how a woman argues:oldlol:

[8Ball]

How would fakkit ass know how a woman argues:oldlol:

You argue like a dumb hood rat that failed out of school.

[Bronbron23]

You argue like a dumb hood rat that failed out of school.

Says the guy that used an 8th of an ounce of crack for his user name. The unawareness in this place is amazing. Can't make this shit up:oldlol:

[lakerstekkenn]

Clay comes back 100% with no issues they are the favorites to come out of the west, they are still the team that won multiple rings even without Durant and will be the western favorites everyone else is playing under them, I don't trust The Clippers staying healthy and my Lakers look terrible.

[Wally450]

Good to know the Warriors won't be going to the Finals now.

[RRR3]

Dumbdumb23 getting embarrassed once again. Just how stupid is this guy?

[Bronbron23]

Good to know the Warriors won't be going to the Finals now.

Don't like them anyway so either way it's a win win for me buddy:rockon:

[Bronbron23]

Dumbdumb23 getting embarrassed once again. Just how stupid is this guy?

https://i.postimg.cc/zB8vGSMZ/RRR3tard.png

Imagine walking around with this permanent stupid look on your face and calling someone else stupid.

Thanks bro i needed a good laugh :roll:

[Axe]

Curry not winning fmvp in 2015 simply proves what a fake and dumb award it is... and by extension also casts doubt on all media awards

Seriously, how low IQ must you folks be to not understand that
Because nickelodeon kids choice awards is life..

[Axe]

The record suggests that having Steph on the team increases the overall defensive potential of the team.

Whatever theories people may have that is the actual result.
We are still waiting for an iconic playoff moment of his since 2013. Please do inform us once you have found any. Thank you, mate.

[000]

Because nickelodeon kids choice awards is life..what does the kids choice whatever have to do with anything? are you retarded?