Why should i take a vaccine for something that's dangerous to someone else?

[Bronbron23]

Someone please tell me. I'm in my 30's and very healthy. I'm as likely to die from covid as i am a heart attack or the flu. Covid kills and hospitalizes the old and unhealthy not the healthy and younger age groups. Why in the hell should i have to be forced to take this shit because a bunch of people in society are scared little bitches who are letting irrational fear cloud their judgment and common sense?

I've asked this question to tons of people and i haven't got one answer that makes sense. It's always some kind of irrational emotional general response like people are dying or the hospitals are overwhelmed. Neither of which makes any sense to my question at hand.

[Axe]

:oldlol:

:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

:oldlol:

:facepalm

Good answer. That's usually what i get because it's impossible to answer with an intelligent response

[Axe]

Good answer. That's usually what i get because it's impossible to answer with an intelligent response
Why are you being paranoid about vaccines lately? It destroys our impression of you.

[jstern]

The answer is clear. Because we have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. At all cost.

[Bronbron23]

Why are you being paranoid about vaccines lately? It destroys our impression of you.

I'm not paranoid at all. What's their to be paranoid about? I don't have to take the vaccine because my job dosn't require it and i have a gym in my basement and summer is over so i don't really care about going out to restaurants or golf or anything so there's really no motivation to get it at the moment. If the mandates are still around come next summer i'll get it because i golf alot and do alot of drinks and dinners at restaurants when the weather's nice.

It's just a question that i'm still waiting on a answer.

And dude this is just a forum. This isn't real life. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of bronbron23:oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

The answer is clear. Because we have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. At all cost.

Unfortunately i can't tell if your joking or not. That's how insane people have become. I'm assuming your being sarcastic though

[Axe]

I'm not paranoid at all. What's their to be paranoid about? I don't have to take the vaccine because my job dosn't require it and i have a gym in my basement and summer is over so i don't really care about going out to restaurants or golf or anything so there's really no motivation to get it at the moment. If the mandates are still around come next summer i'll get it because i golf alot and do alot of drinks and dinners at restaurants when the weather's nice.

It's just a question that i'm still waiting on a answer.

And dude this is just a forum. This isn't real life. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of bronbron23:oldlol:
Idk but i think nobody seems to be forcing you, after all. The part that i don't understand is, why are you trying to tell or influence the other unvaxxed folks who plan on being vaxxed to not go for it? Or at least something like that. I think i mentioned here before that i had some healthy relatives who got symptoms without them and they succumbed to it.

[Off the Court]

And now it's time
For a vaccine rhyme
Somebody made a thread
It's about f#@kin time!

Vaccine yall...vaccine yall

https://i.gifer.com/4tQy.gif

Va-Va-Vaccine yall

Mothaf@#ka

[Bronbron23]

Idk but i think nobody seems to be forcing you, after all. The part that i don't understand is, why are you trying to tell or influence the other unvaxxed folks who plan on being vaxxed to not go for it? Or at least something like that. I think i mentioned here before that i had some healthy relatives who got symptoms without them and they succumbed to it.

Well they're certainly trying to with mandates. I'm just above their b.s is all.

And i didn't tell anyone not to get it. I'm all for people getting the vaccine if that's what they want. I'm speaking for myself and those who feel the same way.

And if you had some relatively young healthy family members that died from covid that sucks and i feel for you but that was an extremely rare unfortunate circumstance because most people affected aren't young and healthy. A young healthy person Getting vaccinated based on your super rare unfortunate experience is irrational when compared to the countless risks they take everyday that they don't worry about at all. If that's what they want to do though that's their buisness. I don't care at all. Just don't expect me to feel the same way and don't vilify me or judge me because of it.

[bladefd]

As of November 6, 2021:
7.25 billion vaccines given globally
3.12 billion people are fully vaccinated (40% of global population)

Each day, almost 4 million new people are being fully vaccinated. Keep opening new meltdown threads on the vaccine, and yelling into the wind. It will not do or change anything because you are in a very tiny minority with very loud barks.

[Bronbron23]

As of November 6, 2021:
7.25 billion vaccines given globally
3.12 billion people are fully vaccinated (40% of global population)

Each day, almost 4 million new people are being fully vaccinated. Keep opening new meltdown threads on the vaccine, and yelling into the wind. It will not do or change anything because you are in a very tiny minority with very loud barks.

Cool stats but that didn't answer the question

[Axe]

Well they're certainly trying to with mandates. I'm just above their b.s is all.

And i didn't tell anyone not to get it. I'm all for people getting the vaccine if that's what they want. I'm speaking for myself and those who feel the same way.

And if you had some relatively young healthy family members that died from covid that sucks and i feel for you but that was an extremely rare unfortunate circumstance because most people affected aren't young and healthy. A young healthy person Getting vaccinated based on your super rare unfortunate experience is irrational when compared to the countless risks they take everyday that they don't worry about at all. If that's what they want to do though that's their buisness. I don't care at all. Just don't expect me to feel the same way and don't vilify me or judge me because of it.
But you have no problems if they take horse dewormers, such as ivermectin, for this purpose instead? Lol.

[Bronbron23]

But you have no problems if they take horse dewormers, such as ivermectin, for this purpose instead? Lol.

I never said that either but again what you wanna take is your own buisness.

And saying people who took ivermectin took horse dewormer is like saying people who drink water are drinking horse water because horses drink water also. Ivermectin was used effectively for humans for years before they made a animal grade one. It's such a weird thing to say. You just sound like a media tool when u say stuff like that because that's where u got it. Have you ever taken aspirin? Did you know that aspirin is given to cats and dogs also? That be like me laughing at you for taking dog medicine. Lots of drugs and medicines that's used for humans have an animal grade also. Don't be that guy bro. Don't just use talking points from other people without knowing what your talking about. Think for yourself.

[GimmeThat]

because we lived in a world where even your opposition has no proof, as long as you can't prove them wrong, based on "I think therefor I am". we still have to acknowledge them. Then now we just realized that it's some tranny sh*t

[Axe]

I never said that either but again what you wanna take is your own buisness.

And saying people who took ivermectin took horse dewormer is like saying people who drink water are drinking horse water because horses drink water also. Ivermectin was used effectively for humans for years before they made a animal grade one. It's such a weird thing to say. You just sound like a media tool when u say stuff like that because that's where u got it. Have you ever taken aspirin? Did you know that aspirin is given to cats and dogs also? That be like me laughing at you for taking dog medicine. Lots of drugs and medicines that's used for humans have an animal grade also. Don't be that guy bro. Don't just use talking points from other people without knowing what your talking about. Think for yourself.
I mean you're the one who made this thread, after all. So don't expect all folks here to agree with you or have the same perception as yours towards this subject.

[Walk on Water]

Boy.. You don't watch the news or pay attention to the science. It doesn't matter if you are young. If you go somewhere and catch it and then pass it on to someone else, they can catch it from you. In fact if you are young, it makes you more dangerous because you could be asymptomatic. What don't you understand? It is was it is. Just take the vaccine. You said you're healthy, therefore you don't need to worry about the vaccine.

[iamgine]

The correct answer is achieving herd immunity. The real danger of covid is hospitals being overwhelmed and achieving herd immunity should prevent that. If hospitals are overwhelmed and healthcare is on the brink of collapse, as we have seen in many countries, then everyone and everything is affected.

A secondary reason is as a society, there is always this unspoken rule of protecting others, especially the weaker. Like why should there be a ridiculously slow speed limit on roads near school? After all, if you hit a kid, you're not gonna die. Why should you have to slow down? Or why do the disabled get priority parking spots.

[Bronbron23]

I mean you're the one who made this thread, after all. So don't expect all folks here to agree with you or have the same perception as yours towards this subject.

You don't have to have my perspective man i'm just telling you why i think my perspective makes more sense.

[Bronbron23]

Boy.. You don't watch the news or pay attention to the science. It doesn't matter if you are young. If you go somewhere and catch it and then pass it on to someone else, they can catch it from you. In fact if you are young, it makes you more dangerous because you could be asymptomatic. What don't you understand? It is was it is. Just take the vaccine. You said you're healthy, therefore you don't need to worry about the vaccine. I pay attention to the science but i don't pay much attention to the news so much. They've been wrong countless times on this and so many things before this. I don't know how you can ask me that with a straight face. You do know thAt networks like cnn, fox and nbc aren't really news anymore right? Once the aligned themselves with a side politically they stopped being the news. At least now i know where you ignorance on the matter comes from.

So your correct in that the science says i can pass it on and spread the virus but the science says the vaccinated do this just as much. This is where the disconnect is happening and it's because of the news that you so easily trust. They're still using talking points from alpha. With alpha the vaccines did reduce infection and transmission. There's no alpha left though. Delta is all of the cases and with delta transmission and infection aren't significantly reduced by the vaccines. This is what the science and fauci and cdc tells us so how does what your saying make sense?

[Bronbron23]

The correct answer is achieving herd immunity. The real danger of covid is hospitals being overwhelmed and achieving herd immunity should prevent that. If hospitals are overwhelmed and healthcare is on the brink of collapse, as we have seen in many countries, then everyone and everything is affected.

A secondary reason is as a society, there is always this unspoken rule of protecting others, especially the weaker. Like why should there be a ridiculously slow speed limit on roads near school? After all, if you hit a kid, you're not gonna die. Why should you have to slow down? Or why do the disabled get priority parking spots.

The problem with this talking point is it dosn't address my question because hospitals aren't being overwhelmed by children or younger healthy adults and they're not being overwhelmed by people with natural immunity. It's the old and unhealthy who are the ones overwhelming the hospitals. They're the ones that need the vaccines. That be like blaming younger people or healthy people for all the old and unhealthy people who overwhelm the hospitals because of their heart disease or type 2 diabetes. How doest this make sense?

[iamgine]

The problem with this talking point is it dosn't address my question because hospitals aren't being overwhelmed by children or younger healthy adults and they're not being overwhelmed by people with natural immunity. It's the old and unhealthy who are the ones overwhelming the hospitals. They're the ones that need the vaccines. That be like blaming younger people or healthy people for all the old and unhealthy people who overwhelm the hospitals because of their heart disease or type 2 diabetes. How doest this make sense?

Well in many countries younger people contribute significantly in overwhelming hospitals too so your assumption is not correct.

Also, everyone can contribute in spreading the virus. Especially younger people since they're more active.

[Bronbron23]

Well in many countries younger people contribute significantly in overwhelming hospitals too so your assumption is not correct.

Also, everyone can contribute in spreading the virus. Especially younger people since they're more active.

Well in those countries that's impoverished with alot of unhealthy kids they should get the vaccine. I'm talking about the us where younger people aren't overwhelming the hospitals. That's not a good argument man. That's like saying children here should take the vaccine for malaria because alot if kids in poor countries are being hospitalized from it.

And i agree everyone can spread it but that's my point. If both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread it why should only the unvaccinated be the ones restricted from doing anything? Either still restrict everyone ro minimize the spread or don't restrict anyone and except that a small percentage of the remaining unvaccinated are going to het sick and die. We accept these kinds of low risks all the time btw.

[GimmeThat]

So your correct in that the science says i can pass it on and spread the virus but the science says the vaccinated do this just as much. This is where the disconnect is happening and it's because of the news that you so easily trust. They're still using talking points from alpha. With alpha the vaccines did reduce infection and transmission. There's no alpha left though. Delta is all of the cases and with delta transmission and infection aren't significantly reduced by the vaccines. This is what the science and fauci and cdc tells us so how does what your saying make sense?

it might be feasible to say that a vaccine reduces infection, however, if something that can stop the transmission. you call that a bug spray, not a vaccine.

a vaccine's main priority would be to prevent your body from receiving and reacting to the germ/virus, since it's been determined our immune system, can not. I'm unaware as to how, if a vaccine, put into the body, could then somehow eliminate the germ/virus from transmitting, can't be replicated in a spray. It's not as if the human body carries a much richer state of oxygen than the atmosphere.

I mean, if the whole world took allergy pills together, soon, everyone will just somehow be cleared off allergies, right.

[Bronbron23]

it might be feasible to say that a vaccine reduces infection, however, if something that can stop the transmission. you call that a bug spray, not a vaccine.

a vaccine's main priority would be to prevent your body from receiving and reacting to the germ/virus, since it's been determined our immune system, can not. I'm unaware as to how, if a vaccine, put into the body, could then somehow eliminate the germ/virus from transmitting, can't be replicated in a spray. It's not as if the human body carries a much richer state of oxygen than the atmosphere.

I mean, if the whole world took allergy pills together, soon, everyone will just somehow be cleared off allergies, right.

From what i read about the science behind these vaccines and infection and transmission has to do with the amount of virus in the nasal fairings. Apparently with alpha the vaccinated had less which meant there was a less chance of getting infected and less chance of spreading it. With delta though the amount of virus in the fairings of a vaxxed and non vaxxed is equal.

Whether that all makes or not i have no idea. That's just what the science is saying and i'll take there word on it because i'm not a doctor.

[iamgine]

Well in those countries that's impoverished with alot of unhealthy kids they should get the vaccine. I'm talking about the us where younger people aren't overwhelming the hospitals. That's not a good argument man. That's like saying children here should take the vaccine for malaria because alot if kids in poor countries are being hospitalized from it.

And i agree everyone can spread it but that's my point. If both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread it why should only the unvaccinated be the ones restricted from doing anything? Either still restrict everyone ro minimize the spread or don't restrict anyone and except that a small percentage of the remaining unvaccinated are going to het sick and die. We accept these kinds of low risks all the time btw.

Uh no we're not talking impoverished here. Again, that assumption is incorrect.

Vaccine limits transmission and symptoms. It's not hard to understand.

[hiphopanonymous]

Don't give a shit whether you've got a vaccine or not tbh.

But just as a conceptual exercise: by OP's logic just shoot a gun randomly into the air. It's dangerous to others not the shooter so who cares and it's not like the shooter was intending to do any harm as they were just being random and aiming for the air not people.

A bit more exaggerated then vaccinating the healthy young folks in question but similar concept of that it doesn't affect the person being negligent only potentially random people near by. What we do can sometimes affect the safety of others and probably we should attempt to do the right things in those situations. Leaving the discretion up to the individuals as a society is also a fail waiting to happen by the way. Too many people simply refuse to do the "right thing" I don't even mean like 5-10 percent or less I mean about 50 percent lol. But I understand the devils advocate to that too, I mean do we really want more instructions or laws mandating things? Most people want to resist that naturally. Even though it's funny nobody complains about stop signs or drivers licenses. But whatever, the vaccine offered me protection. I got it. My close circle got it. The rest of the world can do what they like including OP.

[Bronbron23]

Uh no we're not talking impoverished here. Again, that assumption is incorrect.

Vaccine limits transmission and symptoms. It's not hard to understand.

Which so called 1st world country is overwhelmed with young people?

Here's the uk stats https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

Here's canada https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228610/number-covid-cases-hospitalized-canada-by-age/

Here's is the cdc director https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. She confirms that they don't know if the vaccine reduces transmission. This was right before data finally did come out showing it dosn't. That's what fauci was speaking on in the other video. Funny thing is at the time the "science" was saying they don't know while the media was saying it did. That's why no intelligent person trusts the media.

And if there is a first world country that's hospitals are mostly overwhelmed with young people they should absolutely get young people vaccinated but again that would be an oulier which dosn't correlate to most countries

And no the vaccines do not limit infection and transmission. Your going on old data from alpha. With delta this isn't the case. Here's the countries top "scince" advisors acknowledging this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. The cdc director acknowledges this qnd confirms what i'm saying. She acknowledges she dosn't know if the vaccines reduce transmission. Meanwhile the meadia was saying it did. This is why people who think for themselves don't trust the media.

You don't know what your talking about man.

[Bronbron23]

Don't give a shit whether you've got a vaccine or not tbh.

But just as a conceptual exercise: by OP's logic just shoot a gun randomly into the air. It's dangerous to others not the shooter so who cares and it's not like the shooter was intending to do any harm as they were just being random and aiming for the air not people.

A bit more exaggerated then vaccinating the healthy young folks in question but similar concept of that it doesn't affect the person being negligent only potentially random people near by. What we do can sometimes affect the safety of others and probably we should attempt to do the right things in those situations. Leaving the discretion up to the individuals as a society is also a fail waiting to happen by the way. Too many people simply refuse to do the "right thing" I don't even mean like 5-10 percent or less I mean about 50 percent lol. But I understand the devils advocate to that too, I mean do we really want more instructions or laws mandating things? Most people want to resist that naturally. Even though it's funny nobody complains about stop signs or drivers licenses. But whatever, the vaccine offered me protection. I got it. My close circle got it. The rest of the world can do what they like including OP.

No that's a terrible analogy bro but If i was to use your analogy and apply it to my stance i'd basically be saying that if a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person both shot a gun in the air both peoples bullets could randomly hit someone. The vaccinated bullet isn't gonna not kill someone because their vaccinated.

That's my point. That both vaccinated and non vaccinated can get infected and spread covid so how does it make sense to only restrict the non vaccinated when the vaccinated spread covid just as much?

And i never said i didn't care but we have to move on and live life. Plus if 5he vaccines work and protect you how am i endangering you?

[GimmeThat]

Covid is like a fart. the moment it was released, everyone went "oh, no no" yet, no one had smelled the fart yet

then came the part where, well, it's a fart, and you're in the proximity, so sure, you can cover your nose to make it slightly better, but boy, does that smell just linger like a dead body

finally, the vaccine came, now you're allowed to be a "self-educated-proclaimed" doctor/politician and say, that etiquette was just nasty, and someone needs to do something to prevent such behavior from happening again. While the general public already went, "self-righteous bastard moved so ****ing slow, sure, I might forgive some of those who opened the window, but that ****ing fart had already been released and lingered and now your greedy ass just wants to come around and collect some pay-check for the 'right' reason"


good thing that's exactly how that xyz amount of healthy industry is ran huh

[iamgine]

Which so called 1st world country is overwhelmed with young people?

Here's the uk stats https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

Here's canada https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228610/number-covid-cases-hospitalized-canada-by-age/

Here's is the cdc director https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. She confirms that they don't know if the vaccine reduces transmission. This was right before data finally did come out showing it dosn't. That's what fauci was speaking on in the other video. Funny thing is at the time the "science" was saying they don't know while the media was saying it did. That's why no intelligent person trusts the media.

And if there is a first world country that's hospitals are mostly overwhelmed with young people they should absolutely get young people vaccinated but again that would be an oulier which dosn't correlate to most countries

And no the vaccines do not limit infection and transmission. Your going on old data from alpha. With delta this isn't the case. Here's the countries top "scince" advisors acknowledging this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. The cdc director acknowledges this qnd confirms what i'm saying. She acknowledges she dosn't know if the vaccines reduce transmission. Meanwhile the meadia was saying it did. This is why people who think for themselves don't trust the media.

You don't know what your talking about man.
Even in that Canada data, people 0-49 contributes around 25% of hospitalization. That's significant.

She said she doesn't know because there's no data yet. But if a vaccine have any efficacy at all of course it's going to reduce transmission and hospitalization. This is just common sense.

[hiphopanonymous]

No that's a terrible analogy bro but If i was to use your analogy and apply it to my stance i'd basically be saying that if a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person both shot a gun in the air both peoples bullets could randomly hit someone. The vaccinated bullet isn't gonna not kill someone because their vaccinated.

That's my point. That both vaccinated and non vaccinated can get infected and spread covid so how does it make sense to only restrict the non vaccinated when the vaccinated spread covid just as much?

And i never said i didn't care but we have to move on and live life. Plus if 5he vaccines work and protect you how am i endangering you?
Let's nuance the shit out of this to fit better since a simple analogy wasn't sufficient for you:

*Anyone who is hit with a round unless on a hard bullet proof plate involuntarily starts firing randomly into the air themselves before they recover or die.
*Put hard bullet proof plate vest is only given to the population that "chooses" to wear the vests (vaccination)*
*A bullet can in fact hit them where the vest didn't cover (the vaccine/armor isn't perfect but it's still pretty robust) and yes if hit where the plate didn't protect them they'd also shoot into the air*
*Only put soft fabric bullet proof vests on the "30 somethings" that are in the prime of their life and feel they don't need the vaccines - if they get hit anywhere (including the vest) they'll still start firing randomly into the air. In other words, they are contagious no matter what where as the ones with hard armor plate are contagious less often.

It's just a game of odds and unfortunately the vaccine isn't perfect it's like wearing a hard bullet proof vest. The round could still smack some of the armored folks in the arm or face and harm or kill them anyways sure. But it's better than being young and unvaccinated as far as spreading the disease goes and ultimately will result in far less rounds being fired into the air. If the virus doesn't multiply in your system (due to the hard plate vest not allowing it to enter) you're not as likely spread it like say, the young unvaccinated folks who still definitely get sick at high rates they just don't die as often.

I up the odds to protect myself and my circle (family, friends, etc). But some people in my circle are old or in the high risk category. I know of two fully vaccinated people who died already, one of them a doctor early 60's still very much in the prime of his career with no prior existing health issues known to him another one an individual about 51 with no prior obvious health issues that would have set off an alarm like they could die of Covid despite being vaccinated themselves. Now mind you, everyone else I've heard of that died was not vaccinated which is about 7 other folks I'm aware of. So I can cast any news crap aside and conclude on my own that the vaccinated in this small sample size seem to not die as often as those who did not get the vaccine.

Also you very much indeed "don't care." Don't pretend you do. You're more concerned about being politically right than you are about the wellbeing of anyone around you. And that's exactly what I expect out of the population which is why I don't care if you get vaccinated or not I just did what I could for myself and those I do care about.

[GimmeThat]

if people honestly and genuinely believed that the vaccine worked, they'd rush to the line and get all the vaccines for the people they cared at no cost, and they would be thrilled that others choose not to vaccinate. hell, you don't want it, better!!! my friends are saved!!!


somehow, that's not the case, because apparently, the infinite continuous bullet analogy now fits into the physics equation of matters-energy.

some real retarded shit

[Bronbron23]

Even in that Canada data, people 0-49 contributes around 25% of hospitalization. That's significant.

She said she doesn't know because there's no data yet. But if a vaccine have any efficacy at all of course it's going to reduce transmission and hospitalization. This is just common sense.

I said young people man grouping in 40-49 year olds with young adults is disingenuous. 35 and over isn't young. The small percentage of those from that group that are healthy are low risk but if your late 30's or over your definitely at higher risk.

And that's not how efficacy works man. Efficacy has degrees. Some vaccines stop and reduce transmission and some not so much. The flu vaccine like covid vaccine is great for reducing death and severe sickness but it does very little in reducing infection and transmission. With that said Common sense actually leads more to vaccines not significantly reducing transmission.

[tpols]

People in this thread talking about not getting a vaccine with no long term human clinical trials that doesn't prevent transmission and whose side effects are not fully understood yet is like shooting guns in the air at people. :lol :facepalm

Cant make this shit up. Straight up retarded.

[Bronbron23]

Let's nuance the shit out of this to fit better since a simple analogy wasn't sufficient for you:

*Anyone who is hit with a round unless on a hard bullet proof plate involuntarily starts firing randomly into the air themselves before they recover or die.
*Put hard bullet proof plate vest is only given to the population that "chooses" to wear the vests (vaccination)*
*A bullet can in fact hit them where the vest didn't cover (the vaccine/armor isn't perfect but it's still pretty robust) and yes if hit where the plate didn't protect them they'd also shoot into the air*
*Only put soft fabric bullet proof vests on the "30 somethings" that are in the prime of their life and feel they don't need the vaccines - if they get hit anywhere (including the vest) they'll still start firing randomly into the air. In other words, they are contagious no matter what where as the ones with hard armor plate are contagious less often.

It's just a game of odds and unfortunately the vaccine isn't perfect it's like wearing a hard bullet proof vest. The round could still smack some of the armored folks in the arm or face and harm or kill them anyways sure. But it's better than being young and unvaccinated as far as spreading the disease goes and ultimately will result in far less rounds being fired into the air. If the virus doesn't multiply in your system (due to the hard plate vest not allowing it to enter) you're not as likely spread it like say, the young unvaccinated folks who still definitely get sick at high rates they just don't die as often.

I up the odds to protect myself and my circle (family, friends, etc). But some people in my circle are old or in the high risk category. I know of two fully vaccinated people who died already, one of them a doctor early 60's still very much in the prime of his career with no prior existing health issues known to him another one an individual about 51 with no prior obvious health issues that would have set off an alarm like they could die of Covid despite being vaccinated themselves. Now mind you, everyone else I've heard of that died was not vaccinated which is about 7 other folks I'm aware of. So I can cast any news crap aside and conclude on my own that the vaccinated in this small sample size seem to not die as often as those who did not get the vaccine.

Also you very much indeed "don't care." Don't pretend you do. You're more concerned about being politically right than you are about the wellbeing of anyone around you. And that's exactly what I expect out of the population which is why I don't care if you get vaccinated or not I just did what I could for myself and those I do care about.

I got the analogy but neither really apply to what i said. I know the vaccine works and protects people. Your analogy works in that sense but i never said the vaccine dosn't work. Your analogy falls short in its relation to the spread because both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread covid pretty much equally. You aren't significantly reducing the risk of infecting the people around you by getting the vaccine because they're just as much at risk from you as they are me. So it's not that i don't care. It's just that it dosn't make sense. It has nothing to do with politics man. It has everything to do with common sense.

[Bronbron23]

if people honestly and genuinely believed that the vaccine worked, they'd rush to the line and get all the vaccines for the people they cared at no cost, and they would be thrilled that others choose not to vaccinate. hell, you don't want it, better!!! my friends are saved!!!


somehow, that's not the case, because apparently, the infinite continuous bullet analogy now fits into the physics equation of matters-energy.

some real retarded shit

Yeah it was a bad one. I have a young son and a wife. I visit my older parents all the time. If the vaccine significantly reduced transmission i'd get it fast. That's not the case though. The vaccines protects me but I'm 35 and healthy and extremely low risk. I'm also pretty care free so i don't worry about small risks anyway so based on this why would i get it? I get old people and unhealthy people getting it. I get people with anxiety who are nervous about everything getting it. I'm not them though.

[iamgine]

I said young people man grouping in 40-49 year olds with young adults is disingenuous. 35 and over isn't young. The small percentage of those from that group that are healthy are low risk but if your late 30's or over your definitely at higher risk.

And that's not how efficacy works man. Efficacy has degrees. Some vaccines stop and reduce transmission and some not so much. The flu vaccine like covid vaccine is great for reducing death and severe sickness but it does very little in reducing infection and transmission. With that said Common sense actually leads more to vaccines not significantly reducing transmission.
Even the lower age group still contributes tens of thousands of patients.

The vaccine reduces infection and also accelerates viral clearance. Which means you are less likely to contract the virus and even if you do, you'll recover faster. Which means less chance of transmitting it to others and less/faster hospitalization. This is just common sense.

[Bronbron23]

Even the lower age group still contributes tens of thousands of patients.

The vaccine reduces infection and also accelerates viral clearance. Which means you are less likely to contract the virus and even if you do, you'll recover faster. Which means less chance of transmitting it to others and less/faster hospitalization. This is just common sense.

The lower age group are contributing to less than 10% that's not significant enough to mandate it for that age group. Your basically running your argument on the one life saved argument which isn't a good one. We except minimal risks all the time. This is no different.

And again with reducing infection and transmission point it's very minimal. It dosn't significantly reduce it. We don't apply this to the flu which kills just as many kids and kills tens of thousands and infects tens of millions.

I don't see this same concern for minimal risk for the flu or heart disease or type 2 diabetes. Combined these thinga are way more likely to kill or hospitalize people. What's next are we gonna force people on what and how to eat? Why no outrage for all these unhealthy fat f*cks that overwhelme the hospitals every year. Why no outrage for people spreading the flu which kills just as many kids as covid?

What's common sense is that the world is full of things that pose an extremely low risk to our safety and survival. We except and live with these risks every day because living in fear of things that's minimal risk is no way to live your life. Alot of people have let the media and government scare them into being scared of something that they otherwise wouldn't have been if not for all the fear mongering and now people like you are acting irrational.

[hiphopanonymous]

I got the analogy but neither really apply to what i said. I know the vaccine works and protects people. Your analogy works in that sense but i never said the vaccine dosn't work. Your analogy falls short in its relation to the spread because both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread covid pretty much equally. You aren't significantly reducing the risk of infecting the people around you by getting the vaccine because they're just as much at risk from you as they are me. So it's not that i don't care. It's just that it dosn't make sense. It has nothing to do with politics man. It has everything to do with common sense.
My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

[warriorfan]

My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

I wouldn’t call it your understanding. More like your wishful thinking.


When they analyzed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.



“Vaccines have been shown to be highly effective in preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19. For example, as of mid-September, 41 out of 49 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento were unvaccinated.

Breakthrough infections where vaccinated people do become sick can occur, especially in areas where virus prevalence is high.

Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they(vaccinated) can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people. This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with SARS-CoV-2, or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus.”

..

[n00bie]

This has turned into the pandemic for the unvaccinated. Life is pretty much back to normal here except for the annoying masks indoors.

I gotta say shit sucks for the unvaccinated tho. Can't work, can't go to restaurants, can't travel etc.

I'm all for vaccines, but separating the population is stupid. I feel for you guys.

[Bronbron23]

My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

This may have been true with alpha but it's not the case with delta. I mean there are places with very high vaccination rates that are having their highest cases to date.

I think there are people who are certainly selfish when it comes to there health but this is true for lots of things including the flu. And again i don't think most people go about it with the mind set they don't care. They go about it with the mindset that it's a risk that we as a society chose to take. Up until covid most of us have done it with the flu. The flu infects millions and kills tens of thousands of people a year. It kills just as many kids as covid but in general only 1/3 of the population gets vaccinated for it. Nobody wears masks. Nobody stays 6 feet apart even though they could be asymptomatic have it and spread it. I'm sure your guilty of this i know i was. How is that any different?

[Rooster]

This may have been true with alpha but it's not the case with delta. I mean there are places with very high vaccination rates that are having their highest cases to date.

I think there are people who are certainly selfish when it comes to there health but this is true for lots of things including the flu. And again i don't think most people go about it with the mind set they don't care. They go about it with the mindset that it's a risk that we as a society chose to take. Up until covid most of us have done it with the flu. The flu infects millions and kills tens of thousands of people a year. It kills just as many kids as covid but in general only 1/3 of the population gets vaccinated for it. Nobody wears masks. Nobody stays 6 feet apart even though they could be asymptomatic have it and spread it. I'm sure your guilty of this i know i was. How is that any different?

You have an antiviral drugs that can kill the flu inside the human body with trillion cells. Nothing so far with Covid though Pfizer drug is promising.

[Rooster]

People in this thread talking about not getting a vaccine with no long term human clinical trials that doesn't prevent transmission and whose side effects are not fully understood yet is like shooting guns in the air at people. :lol :facepalm

Cant make this shit up. Straight up retarded.

Vaccines approval process is at least 5 years. Considering the circumstances, there’s no way the world will wait for at least 5 years to unleash the vaccine.

[PistonsFan#21]

Vaccines approval process is at least 5 years. Considering the circumstances, there’s no way the world will wait for at least 5 years to unleash the vaccine.

You are right. It's easier to just cut corners instead, falsify the efficacy data and unblind the patients during the trial phase to get the Emergency use authorization as soon as possible https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635


. A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial. Staff who conducted quality control checks were overwhelmed by the volume of problems they were finding.After repeatedly notifying Ventavia of these problems, the regional director, Brook Jackson, emailed a complaint to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Ventavia fired her later the same day. Jackson has provided The BMJ with dozens of internal company documents, photos, audio recordings, and emails.

[Axe]

Don't give a shit whether you've got a vaccine or not tbh.

But just as a conceptual exercise: by OP's logic just shoot a gun randomly into the air. It's dangerous to others not the shooter so who cares and it's not like the shooter was intending to do any harm as they were just being random and aiming for the air not people.

A bit more exaggerated then vaccinating the healthy young folks in question but similar concept of that it doesn't affect the person being negligent only potentially random people near by. What we do can sometimes affect the safety of others and probably we should attempt to do the right things in those situations. Leaving the discretion up to the individuals as a society is also a fail waiting to happen by the way. Too many people simply refuse to do the "right thing" I don't even mean like 5-10 percent or less I mean about 50 percent lol. But I understand the devils advocate to that too, I mean do we really want more instructions or laws mandating things? Most people want to resist that naturally. Even though it's funny nobody complains about stop signs or drivers licenses. But whatever, the vaccine offered me protection. I got it. My close circle got it. The rest of the world can do what they like including OP.
This. It's actually called stray bullet but as long as op himself is safe, he doesn't seem to care if the others may get afflicted no matter how healthy he is lmao. Not sure if he's being insensitive here or something. And regarding how freedom became limited due to the pandemic, yes it sucks a lot. But as more folks get fully vaccinated while time goes on, restrictions will start to ease up. Hopefully, by q1 of 2023 everything will be closely back to normal, especially if it's really true that the virus has already reached its peak by q2 to q3 of this year.

[bladefd]

Vaccines approval process is at least 5 years. Considering the circumstances, there’s no way the world will wait for at least 5 years to unleash the vaccine.

A lot of that is paperwork and triple-testing in ever-growing populations. I hope the vaccine and medical research study process gets more streamlined after this for future studies.

[iamgine]

The lower age group are contributing to less than 10% that's not significant enough to mandate it for that age group. Your basically running your argument on the one life saved argument which isn't a good one. We except minimal risks all the time. This is no different.

And again with reducing infection and transmission point it's very minimal. It dosn't significantly reduce it. We don't apply this to the flu which kills just as many kids and kills tens of thousands and infects tens of millions.

I don't see this same concern for minimal risk for the flu or heart disease or type 2 diabetes. Combined these thinga are way more likely to kill or hospitalize people. What's next are we gonna force people on what and how to eat? Why no outrage for all these unhealthy fat f*cks that overwhelme the hospitals every year. Why no outrage for people spreading the flu which kills just as many kids as covid?

What's common sense is that the world is full of things that pose an extremely low risk to our safety and survival. We except and live with these risks every day because living in fear of things that's minimal risk is no way to live your life. Alot of people have let the media and government scare them into being scared of something that they otherwise wouldn't have been if not for all the fear mongering and now people like you are acting irrational.

Even only at 10% it's a significant contribution. And the number will differ from country to country depending on population age, lockdown policy etc. Equating a global pandemic to diabetes is...strange to say the least. It shows that one does not have a good grasp on what makes it dangerous. If the vaccine reduce infection and accelerate viral clearance, wouldn't that mean less chance for you to transmit it to your family? This is just common sense.

[Rooster]

You are right. It's easier to just cut corners instead, falsify the efficacy data and unblind the patients during the trial phase to get the Emergency use authorization as soon as possible https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

LMAO, you seem to be too naive or never invested in a biotech company. A lot of things can happen in Phase 3.

But the numbers don’t lie, Pfizer has poor efficacy after 6 months with 76% and also only against 42% against Delta. But overall, that’s pretty good result for a vaccine.

Let me put this way, if Pfizer said their oral pill works against Covid overwhelmingly like 90%, are you going to wait 8-10 years process for FDA to approve this? Or you are just an anti vaccine? Or if BioN Tech produced a cancer vaccine , do you want all the cancer patients to wait 5-8 years?

[PistonsFan#21]

Even only at 10% it's a significant contribution. And the number will differ from country to country depending on population age, lockdown policy etc. Equating a global pandemic to diabetes is...strange to say the least. It shows that one does not have a good grasp on what makes it dangerous. If the vaccine reduce infection and accelerate viral clearance, wouldn't that mean less chance for you to transmit it to your family? This is just common sense.

Will we ever know how much it actually reduces infection? CDC couldn't keep up (or wanted to take the attention away from it) with all the breakthrough cases so they stopped tracking that data and only focused on breakthrough cases that lead to hospitalization or death since May 1st.

In Israel and the UK where the governments are more transparent with their data we see that most hospitalizations and deaths are among the fully vaccinated. There was an official document from the UK government that showed 63% of the delta death since February until October were among the fully vaccinated. There is also video and audio evidence that the data was falsified during the clinical trial for Pfizer.

Common sense would be to question what else they are hiding or lying about.

[PistonsFan#21]

LMAO, you seem to be too naive or never invested in a biotech company. A lot of things can happen in Phase 3.

But the numbers don’t lie, Pfizer has poor efficacy after 6 months with 76% and also only against 42% against Delta. But overall, that’s pretty good result for a vaccine.

Let me put this way, if Pfizer said their oral pill works against Covid overwhelmingly like 90%, are you going to wait 8-10 years process for FDA to approve this? Or you are just an anti vaccine? Or if BioN Tech produced a cancer vaccine , do you want all the cancer patients to wait 5-8 years?

It depends. Are we talking about a vaccine for a cancer with a 99.7% survival rate that will not prevent you from getting it? Hypothetically speaking here obviously.

[Bronbron23]

This. It's actually called stray bullet but as long as op himself is safe, he doesn't seem to care if the others may get afflicted no matter how healthy he is lmao. Not sure if he's being insensitive here or something. And regarding how freedom became limited due to the pandemic, yes it sucks a lot. But as more folks get fully vaccinated while time goes on, restrictions will start to ease up. Hopefully, by q1 of 2023 everything will be closely back to normal, especially if it's really true that the virus has already reached its peak by q2 to q3 of this year.

Don't think you read what i was saying. I realize that i can spread the virus but a vaccinated person is just as likely to spreading it also. This is why the mandates make zero sense. Either lock everyone down or don't lock anyone down.

[Bronbron23]

Even only at 10% it's a significant contribution. And the number will differ from country to country depending on population age, lockdown policy etc. Equating a global pandemic to diabetes is...strange to say the least. It shows that one does not have a good grasp on what makes it dangerous. If the vaccine reduce infection and accelerate viral clearance, wouldn't that mean less chance for you to transmit it to your family? This is just common sense.

It dosn't though. The 10% was referring to hospitalizations for that age group. Transmission is pretty much the same. And common sense would be that my family and people around are vaccinated and protected so they don't have to worry about me or other vaccinated and vaccinated hurting them. Isn't that why all the vaccinated are allowed roaming around freely even though a bunch of them have covid and are spreading it all over the place? It's because they're protected right?

[Rooster]

It depends. Are we talking about a vaccine for a cancer with a 99.7% survival rate that will not prevent you from getting it? Hypothetically speaking here obviously.

LMAO so you rather take a Horse paste against 99.7% survival rate than a vaccine that can end cancer.

Vaccines have eradicated a lot of diseases.

What has anti vaccine crew ever contributed to our society? :roll: This is like a cult on a fool’s errand.

[Rooster]

It dosn't though. The 10% was referring to hospitalizations for that age group. Transmission is pretty much the same. And common sense would be that my family and people around are vaccinated and protected so they don't have to worry about me or other vaccinated and vaccinated hurting them. Isn't that why all the vaccinated are allowed roaming around freely even though a bunch of them have covid and are spreading it all over the place? It's because they're protected right?

UK yearlong study have a good answer.

The study, which enrolled 621 participants, found that of 205 household contacts of people with Delta COVID-19 infection, 38% of household contacts who were unvaccinated went on to test positive, compared to 25% of vaccinated contacts.


Those who were inoculated cleared the virus more quickly and had milder cases, while unvaccinated household members were more likely to suffer from severe disease and hospitalization.

[Bronbron23]

So many naive idealist in this place. Do you actually think this about saving lives? Do you really think the goverment gives 2 shits about the people? The same goverment that profits off of cigarettes, alcohol and opioids that causes countless deaths and hospitalizations? The same goverment that does dick all to end human trafficking. The same goverment that sends our young men and women to foreign lands to fight and die for the goverments greed?

I guess the goverment suddenly grew a conscious over night:facepalm

[PistonsFan#21]

LMAO so you rather take a Horse paste against 99.7% survival rate than a vaccine that can end cancer.

Vaccines have eradicated a lot of diseases.

What has anti vaccine crew ever contributed to our society? :roll: This is like a cult on a fool’s errand.

Why would i take horse paste? The survival rate for healthy people is 99.7% without any type of treatment.

42% efficacy for a vaccine is trash by any standards. I don't think we eradicated any type of diseases with that level of efficacy. Imagine sending your vaccinated kids to school and telling them there is 58% chance that they get polio, small pox and measles :lol

[Bronbron23]

UK yearlong study have a good answer.

The study, which enrolled 621 participants, found that of 205 household contacts of people with Delta COVID-19 infection, 38% of household contacts who were unvaccinated went on to test positive, compared to 25% of vaccinated contacts.


Those who were inoculated cleared the virus more quickly and had milder cases, while unvaccinated household members were more likely to suffer from severe disease and hospitalization.

Tbh you lost me at 621 participant's but can you post the study?

[Rooster]

Why would i take horse paste? The survival rate for healthy people is 99.7% without any type of treatment.

42% efficacy for a vaccine is trash by any standards. I don't think we eradicated any type of diseases with that level of efficacy. Imagine sending your vaccinated kids to school and telling them there is 58% chance that they get polio, small pox and measles :lol

LMAO Y’all musta forgot. You rolling hard advocating for Ivermectin, your horse paste treatment for Covid brah.

Moderna has 72% efficacy btw but it don’t matter right. Just buy all those natural products that ospteopathic physician like Mercola sell then maybe you’re free from any form of disease. LMAO.

Again what has anti vaccine contributed to the society brah

Pleade enlighten me brah.

[Rooster]

Tbh you lost me at 621 participant's but can you post the study?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

[bladefd]

Why would i take horse paste? The survival rate for healthy people is 99.7% without any type of treatment.

42% efficacy for a vaccine is trash by any standards. I don't think we eradicated any type of diseases with that level of efficacy. Imagine sending your vaccinated kids to school and telling them there is 58% chance that they get polio, small pox and measles :lol

Now, what if you tell those same kids that they are unlikely to need hospitalization from polio, smallpox, and measles if they are vaccinated compared to their unvaccinated classmates, who may get a lot sicker if they do get those diseases? Is that vaccine still trash then??

[Bronbron23]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Ok yeah i remember seeing some stuff on that. The general takeaway from that specific study though was the vaccines aren't effective at significantly reducing the spread https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study%3famp

Here is a larger one from uk that pretty much has the same takeaway. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/world/article-people-who-are-fully-vaccinated-have-high-potential-of-spreading-covid/

Both suggest the vaccinated are slightly less likely to get infected but that it's not significant and that the vaccines aren't useful in significantly reducing the spread which was the point i was making from jump.

This isn't what the government, media has been saying and it's not what most vaccinated people have been saying. They've been saying we have to get everyone vaccinated so we can stop the spread even though the "science" says that's not the case.

So again i'll ask. if the vaccines don't significantly reduce the spread and young people, healthy people and those wirh natural immunity aren't the ones responsible for overwhelming the hospitals why are they mandating these vaccines?

[Bronbron23]

Now, what if you tell those same kids that they are unlikely to need hospitalization from polio, smallpox, and measles if they are vaccinated compared to their unvaccinated classmates, who may get a lot sicker if they do get those diseases? Is that vaccine still trash then??

The vaccines aren't trash bro. Children just aren't at a significant enough risk from covid to warrant mandating them. That's not why the government wants kids vaccinated btw. According to them the purpose of vaccinated children is to significantly reduce the spread but this logic has already been proven illogical by the science That's coming out.

[PistonsFan#21]

LMAO Y’all musta forgot. You rolling hard advocating for Ivermectin, your horse paste treatment for Covid brah.

Moderna has 72% efficacy btw but it don’t matter right. Just buy all those natural products that ospteopathic physician like Mercola sell then maybe you’re free from any form of disease. LMAO.

Again what has anti vaccine contributed to the society brah

Pleade enlighten me brah.

I think you got me confused with someone else, i never advocated for any horse paste treatment :confusedshrug:

72% is still not good enough. That's like a B- . I like my vaccine A+ grade, you know kinda like the small pox vaccine in middle school where after you got it you could play with any other kids even if they were unvaccinated and you wouldn't have to social distance in fear of catching the disease from them.

[PistonsFan#21]

Now, what if you tell those same kids that they are unlikely to need hospitalization from polio, smallpox, and measles if they are vaccinated compared to their unvaccinated classmates, who may get a lot sicker if they do get those diseases? Is that vaccine still trash then??

You mean comparing a vaccine that gives you actual immunity (meaning you won't get infected and spread it to others) to a vaccine that will simply lessen your symptoms and doesn't prevent you from spreading it to others? I would say the latter is probably better than nothing but definitely subpar.

[Axe]

Don't think you read what i was saying. I realize that i can spread the virus but a vaccinated person is just as likely to spreading it also. This is why the mandates make zero sense. Either lock everyone down or don't lock anyone down.
A vaccinated person can spread it but if they test positive tho, at least they won't be hospitalized so easily and they'll only need a few days of quarantine to recover from it. And the world can't endure any more prolonged lockdowns because billions of money are lost everyday because of this shit. Take a look at those freaking airlines. A lot of them have become bankrupt or just downscaled last year and those who are left aren't operating at a 100% capacity yet. Same thing for other types of transportation firms, along with restaurants, cinemas, hotels, spas, theme parks, etc. Hoping that everything will open and easen up next year or so as more people become vaccinated at least.

[Cleverness]

Good question.

The official narrative is that the vaccine will reduce your chances of being hospitalized and dying.

What is the absolute risk reduction in hospitalization and death after becoming vaccinated? Anyone know?

[Bronbron23]

A vaccinated person can spread it but if they test positive tho, at least they won't be hospitalized so easily and they'll only need a few days of quarantine to recover from it. And the world can't endure any more prolonged lockdowns because billions of money are lost everyday because of this shit. Take a look at those freaking airlines. A lot of them have become bankrupt or just downscaled last year and those who are left aren't operating at a 100% capacity yet. Same thing for other types of transportation firms, along with restaurants, cinemas, hotels, spas, theme parks, etc. Hoping that everything will open and easen up next year or so as more people become vaccinated at least.

Yes i agree it protects the individual who takes it but this isn't significant for everyone. It's not significant for people with natural antibodies. It's not significant for children and it's not significant for healthy young adults. It is significant for older people and unhealthy people. For this reason i don't think they should be mandated.

And i wasn't suggesting they should shut down. Shutting down was just one of the 2 options. My point was we should just get back to life as normal. Better educate people on who should get the vaccine and why. Also educate people on better health and lifestyle choices. Be more transparent and allow for open conversation. Stop demonizing people. If they had of done this from jump just as many people would of got vaccinated. Probably more would have. Alot of "antivaxers" aren't actually anti-vaccine they just don't like the lies or incompetence from the government, cdc and media.

[Bronbron23]

Good question.

The official narrative is that the vaccine will reduce your chances of being hospitalized and dying.

What is the absolute risk reduction in hospitalization and death after becoming vaccinated? Anyone know?

I think it does for alot of people. This is a pandemic of the old and healthy and there's alot of old and unhealthy people out there. I don't think it does for alot of groups though. Children, healthy younger adults and those with natural immunity don't get significant protection from vaccines compared to side effects from it. This is my issue with the mandates. They're trying to vaccinate everyone for a virus that for the most part effects certain groups. It be like trying to make children and healthy young adults take heart medication because lots if older and unhealthy people are dying and being hospitalized due to heart disease. It makes no sense.

[Rooster]

I think you got me confused with someone else, i never advocated for any horse paste treatment :confusedshrug:

72% is still not good enough. That's like a B- . I like my vaccine A+ grade, you know kinda like the small pox vaccine in middle school where after you got it you could play with any other kids even if they were unvaccinated and you wouldn't have to social distance in fear of catching the disease from them.

LMAO so if 72% is caliberated in weeks time and mass produced in a month for emerging variant , is booster justification enough. Or you gonna ignore Moderna efficacy of over 90%, prevent severe illness by 95% and deaths by 100% on Alpha variant. LOL

[Rooster]

Ok yeah i remember seeing some stuff on that. The general takeaway from that specific study though was the vaccines aren't effective at significantly reducing the spread https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/579068-vaccinated-just-as-likely-to-spread-delta-variant-as-unvaccinated-study%3famp

Here is a larger one from uk that pretty much has the same takeaway. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/world/article-people-who-are-fully-vaccinated-have-high-potential-of-spreading-covid/

Both suggest the vaccinated are slightly less likely to get infected but that it's not significant and that the vaccines aren't useful in significantly reducing the spread which was the point i was making from jump.

This isn't what the government, media has been saying and it's not what most vaccinated people have been saying. They've been saying we have to get everyone vaccinated so we can stop the spread even though the "science" says that's not the case.

So again i'll ask. if the vaccines don't significantly reduce the spread and young people, healthy people and those wirh natural immunity aren't the ones responsible for overwhelming the hospitals why are they mandating these vaccines?

Pfizer 92% to 78% is significant effifacy, Astra not so much and those 2 vaccines are primary utilized by UK. It’s the Delta that Pfizer has poor result. If anything the study proved that booster is necessary especially for immunocompromised. The mRNA can be easily produced and calibrated.

Natural immunity works but in order to withstand the test of time, those presumed healthy individuals gonna have to be tested regularly and ideally quarterly antibody testing to confirm their protection dues not wean off. This is not cost effective nor sustainable for the long run Asymptomatic individuals infects the most , the R which is around 3-4 before we even have outbreaks here. Like I said 40% of Americans and at least 10% are elderly , we are not the most ideal nation to take the risk.

[Rooster]

I think it does for alot of people. This is a pandemic of the old and healthy and there's alot of old and unhealthy people out there. I don't think it does for alot of groups though. Children, healthy younger adults and those with natural immunity don't get significant protection from vaccines compared to side effects from it. This is my issue with the mandates. They're trying to vaccinate everyone for a virus that for the most part effects certain groups. It be like trying to make children and healthy young adults take heart medication because lots if older and unhealthy people are dying and being hospitalized due to heart disease. It makes no sense.

LMAO the data on July to August spikes , hospitalization was mostly over 90% unvaccinated. Kaiser study also validated the vaccines preventing deaths and severe illness. Let me put it this way, Vaccines are not all or nothing solution but it’s the most effective in managing the risk.

[Bronbron23]

Pfizer 92% to 78% is significant effifacy, Astra not so much and those 2 vaccines are primary utilized by UK. It’s the Delta that Pfizer has poor result. If anything the study proved that booster is necessary especially for immunocompromised. The mRNA can be easily produced and calibrated.

Natural immunity works but in order to withstand the test of time, those presumed healthy individuals gonna have to be tested regularly and ideally quarterly antibody testing to confirm their protection dues not wean off. This is not cost effective nor sustainable for the long run Asymptomatic individuals infects the most , the R which is around 3-4 before we even have outbreaks here. Like I said 40% of Americans and at least 10% are elderly , we are not the most ideal nation to take the risk.

It's only delta around though. Aplha is gone.

And the vaccinated that had their jabs don't have to get tested for antibodies even though natural immunity is better?

It should at least be an option and if price is a problem the individual should have an option to pay for their own test.

[Bronbron23]

LMAO the data on July to August spikes , hospitalization was mostly over 90% unvaccinated. Kaiser study also validated the vaccines preventing deaths and severe illness. Let me put it this way, Vaccines are not all or nothing solution but it’s the most effective in managing the risk.

Yes for those who are risk dude that's my point. They coukd just vaccinate those who are high risk and it would yield the same desired outcome. Trying to vaccinate children, healthy young adults and those who have natural immunity are already protected.

[Rooster]

It's only delta around though. Aplha is gone.

And the vaccinated that had their jabs don't have to get tested for antibodies even though natural immunity is better?

It should at least be an option and if price is a problem the individual should have an option to pay for their own test.

Look brah, virus is unpredictable. New variant will continue to emerge and new problems will arise. The flexibility of the mRNA tech is itÂ’s easy to calibrate and mass produce it within months to tackle any variant.

if thereÂ’s any breakthrough cases for vaccinated, antibody/antigen test and viral loads are being implemented. Vaccines provide immunity., thatÂ’s already proven. Natural immunity, thatÂ’s needs to be proven by antibody testing.

But if you doing the comparison from vaccine to unvaccinated, reviewing scores of research studies and its own unpublished data, most experts found that both infection-induced and vaccine-induced immunity are durable for at least six months — but that vaccines are more consistent in their protection and offer a huge boost in antibodies for people previously infected.

LMAO about giving the unvaccinated individuals and sustaining the compliance of weekly testing and routine antibody and keep PAYING. This is like thinking all people will behave accordingly. If mask is an issue, i donÂ’t see this as sustainable solution brah.

[Axe]

Yes i agree it protects the individual who takes it but this isn't significant for everyone. It's not significant for people with natural antibodies. It's not significant for children and it's not significant for healthy young adults. It is significant for older people and unhealthy people. For this reason i don't think they should be mandated.

And i wasn't suggesting they should shut down. Shutting down was just one of the 2 options. My point was we should just get back to life as normal. Better educate people on who should get the vaccine and why. Also educate people on better health and lifestyle choices. Be more transparent and allow for open conversation. Stop demonizing people. If they had of done this from jump just as many people would of got vaccinated. Probably more would have. Alot of "antivaxers" aren't actually anti-vaccine they just don't like the lies or incompetence from the government, cdc and media.
I understand you but different mandates in different places make this shit so confusing tbh. Sometimes when you go somewhere, there are times when you have prepared your requirements but guards or officers in checkpoints, airports, etc. would not examine them meticulously and let you pass through already immediately once they see you have them. Sometimes that's all it takes. Those who are fully vaccinated should have more privileges for the time being but you know, that's not the case at all. They can still treat them as unvaccinated.