The 04 Pistons had zero top 75 players

[Hey Yo]

The 04 Lakers had 4 first ballot HOF'ers


How did LA lose that Finals to Detroit???

[ELITEpower23]

Kobe ball :(

[RRR3]

Kobe ball :(
I mean yeah, unironically. Anyone who can’t admit this is delusional. Kobe was a great player but that was his biggest failure. It happens.

[BigShotBob]

2011

[Hey Yo]

2011

Miami had 2 first ballot.... Dallas had 2 also

[Axe]

Kobe ball :(
And because he was so popular amongst younger fans, the franchise has decided to brush aside the gripes of his seniors phil and shaq about him in the subsequent summer following their first finals loss together. :ohwell:

[ELITEpower23]

I mean yeah, unironically. Anyone who can’t admit this is delusional. Kobe was a great player but that was his biggest failure. It happens.

It's even worse than 1-9


Almost...Which is the biggest failure? 2004 or 1-9.

[BigShotBob]

Miami had 2 first ballot.... Dallas had 2 also

So Lebron didn't get outscored by a player not in the top 75?

[ELITEpower23]

So Lebron didn't get outscored by a player not in the top 75?

LeBron lost to Dirk
Jordan lost to Terry Cummings
Kobe lost to Chauncy Billups

You good my boy? :oldlol:

[BigShotBob]

LeBron lost to Dirk
Jordan lost to Terry Cummings
Kobe lost to Chauncy Billups

You good my boy? :oldlol:

Jason Terry > Lebron. Did you bump your head and forget his ppg?

[Bawkish]

LeBron lost to Dirk
Jordan lost to Terry Cummings
Kobe lost to Chauncy Billups

You good my boy? :oldlol:

Jason Terry

[Hey Yo]

LeBron lost to Dirk
Jordan lost to Terry Cummings
Kobe lost to Chauncy Billups

You good my boy? :oldlol:

Body bagged

[ELITEpower23]

Jason Terry > Lebron. Did you bump your head and forget his ppg?

You good? Terry Cummings or Dirk all time?

Chauncy Billups or Dirk all time?

[Hey Yo]

Jason Terry

Wade's direct assignment

[ImKobe]

Shaq took a step back
Kobe knee & shoulder surgeries + re-injured shoulder before POs
Malone injured in the series
GP was a non-factor

Putting it all on Kobe is a ****ing joke. Him & Shaq both were much worse all year compared to what they were in 01-03.

[ELITEpower23]

Shaq took a step back
Kobe knee & shoulder surgeries + re-injured shoulder before POs
Malone injured in the series
GP was a non-factor

Putting it all on Kobe is a ****ing joke. Him & Shaq both were much worse all year compared to what they were in 01-03.

Um.

2004 Finals

Shaq scored 26.6 on 84 FGA = 63% FG

Kobe scored 22.6 (4 less ppg) on 113 FGA = 38% FG

Kobe took 30 more shots to score 20 FEWER points :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Um.

2004 Finals

Shaq scored 26.6 on 84 FGA = 63% FG

Kobe scored 22.6 (4 less ppg) on 113 FGA = 38% FG

Kobe took 30 more shots to score 20 FEWER points :oldlol:

Shaq took 30 more FTs. Their usage rate was almost identical. That's a huge increase for Shaq when he had been a low 20 ppg scorer all year. Kobe's production was on par with his production in the last 2-3 months after re-injuring his shoulder.

[TheGoatest]

Um.

2004 Finals

Shaq scored 26.6 on 84 FGA = 63% FG

Kobe scored 22.6 (4 less ppg) on 113 FGA = 38% FG

Kobe took 30 more shots to score 20 FEWER points :oldlol:

Kobe was definitely willing to sabotage that entire series, if it meant Shaq not getting another FMVP (4th) to Kobe's 0 FMVPs, in a desperate attempt not to look like Shaq's sidekick. As if 3 FMVPs vs 0 looked much better.

[2much_knowledge]

Shaq got fat
Kobe was on rape trial, miscarriage and divorce
Malone was injured

Fun fact: Kobe made the shot that avoided getting swept

NEXT

[pandiani17]

Shaq took a step back
Kobe knee & shoulder surgeries + re-injured shoulder before POs
Malone injured in the series
GP was a non-factor

Putting it all on Kobe is a ****ing joke. Him & Shaq both were much worse all year compared to what they were in 01-03.

This. It was a series of factors that put together became a big problem. I would add lack of contribution from the bench and also I would a little more blame on Kobe for trying to be the MVP to dispel the notion that he was Shaq's sidekick.

[Hey Yo]

Shaq got fat
Kobe was on rape trial, miscarriage and divorce
Malone was injured

Fun fact: Kobe made the shot that avoided getting swept

NEXT

So why didnt the media take those things into consideration before most said it was going to be an easy LA sweep?

[pandiani17]

So why didnt the media take those things into consideration before most said it was going to be an easy LA sweep?

I think Malone got injured in the last game against the Timberwolves in the Western Conference Finals and he was day-to-day, and also other players got injured as the series went on. And well, people underrated big-time the Pistons.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi would never lose to a team like pistons, I know that for fact. Unless they injure him like durant and zaza did in 2017.

2019 76ers blows away the 2004 pistons

Butler > billups

Embiid > Wallace brothers

Simmons > Prince

JJ reddick = Richard Hamilton

[Hey Yo]

I understand injuries happen during a series but most of the stuff people bring up was before it was known who was going to rep each conference.

After it was found out, LA was made the overwhelming favorite.

[SaintzFury13]

You can't put it all on Kobe. You just can't. But to act like Kobe wasn't the main reason for the Lakers losing that series is foolish. To try to counter it with what LeBron did in 2011 is also foolish. Both losses happened under different circumstances. LeBron ran into a team that was perfectly fit to defend him and as a result deferred to his all star teammates to take on more of the scoring load since the Mavericks didn't give them as much attention defensively. The problem is that LeBron never really put in the effort to figure out a way to be more helpful on offense and as a result, Miami couldn't overcome Dallas. He also, for whatever reason, was atrocious defensively.

Kobe on the other hand had the opposite problem against Detroit. He was far too aggressive when he should have been deferring to his teammates more (mainly Shaq), and as a result he practically shot LA out of the series to the point where they had no realistic chance of winning.

Both finals losses are black marks on those mens respective careers. They can't be defended and belong on an island of their own. Let's stop mentioning the others when they're brought up and instead just acknowledge them for what they are. Both men learned from those losses and became better players because of it, and won titles eventually afterwards, so I don't see a reason as to why we need to pretend they don't exist and that they didn't happen.

Edit: To the people who keep bringing up that Kobe was injured in 2004, that just makes it even worse on his part. He was having trouble scoring with Prince on him. So why on earth would he keep forcing the issue when the guy has his shit on lockdown while he's sporting an injury? Does he suddenly think he's going to miraculously heal during the games? If the injury was affecting him that badly, then he had no business shooting as many shots as he did.

[ImKobe]

You can't put it all on Kobe. You just can't. But to act like Kobe wasn't the main reason for the Lakers losing that series is foolish. To try to counter it with what LeBron did in 2011 is also foolish. Both losses happened under different circumstances. LeBron ran into a team that was perfectly fit to defend him and as a result deferred to his all star teammates to take on more of the scoring load since the Mavericks didn't give them as much attention defensively. The problem is that LeBron never really put in the effort to figure out a way to be more helpful on offense and as a result, Miami couldn't overcome Dallas. He also, for whatever reason, was atrocious defensively.

Kobe on the other hand had the opposite problem against Detroit. He was far too aggressive when he should have been deferring to his teammates more (mainly Shaq), and as a result he practically shot LA out of the series to the point where they had no realistic chance of winning.

Both finals losses are black marks on those mens respective careers. They can't be defended and belong on an island of their own. Let's stop mentioning the others when they're brought up and instead just acknowledge them for what they are. Both men learned from those losses and became better players because of it, and won titles eventually afterwards, so I don't see a reason as to why we need to pretend they don't exist and that they didn't happen.

Edit: To the people who keep bringing up that Kobe was injured in 2004, that just makes it even worse on his part. He was having trouble scoring with Prince on him. So why on earth would he keep forcing the issue when the guy has his shit on lockdown while he's sporting an injury? Does he suddenly think he's going to miraculously heal during the games? If the injury was affecting him that badly, then he had no business shooting as many shots as he did.

It's not the same.

1. Kobe was not healthy coming off 2 surgeries (knee, shoulder) and re-injuring his shoulder in March. He shot the ball poorly all year.
2. Shaq got the ball more than he did all year, he was the only Laker who shot above 40%FG that played significant minutes in the series (Fox shot 57% but played 29 minutes)
3. Kobe was the 3rd most efficient Laker, even with his low FG%
4. Karl Malone got injured, he shot 33% in the series
5. GP did not learn the triangle and shot 32% in the series, Fisher barely shot 30%FG as well
6. Lakers sucked on defense, Kobe actually played well in crunch time/4th quarters offensively but they gave up 32 points in the 4th to Detroit in Game 4. He saved them from a sweep in an OT win.
7. Lakers had their worst loss in the series (68-88 in Game 3) when Kobe only took 13 shots for the entire game.

[BigShotBob]

You good? Terry Cummings or Dirk all time?

Chauncy Billups or Dirk all time?

So...no reply to Lebron being outscored by Jason Terry?

[TheCorporation]

Um.

2004 Finals

Shaq scored 26.6 on 84 FGA = 63% FG

Kobe scored 22.6 (4 less ppg) on 113 FGA = 38% FG

Kobe took 30 more shots to score 20 FEWER points :oldlol:

Shut it down