why regular season mvps are totally worthless

[HunterSThompson]

2001 mvp Iverson wasn't better than shaq or kobe

2002 mvp Duncan wasn't better than shaq or kobe

2003 mvp Duncan wasn't better than Kobe

2005 mvp nash wasn't better than Shaq

2006 mvp nash wasn't better than Kobe, Wade, Lebron

2007 mvp dirk wasn't better than Kobe

2009 mvp lebron wasn't better than Kobe or wade

2010 mvp lebron wasn't better than Kobe or wade

2011 mvp rose wasn't better than Kobe, Durant, Wade or lebron

2013 mvp lebron wasn't better than Kobe

2015 mvp curry wasn't better than lebron

2016 mvp curry wasn't better than lebron or durant

2017 mvp westbrook wasn't better than lebron or Durant

2018 mvp harden wasn't better than lebron or Durant

2021 mvp jokic wasn't better than giannis

2022 mvp (eventual) curry isnt better than giannis



records and stats can be inflated. we know who the best players are each year and it almost never correlates with who wins mvp. I don't give a crap if a guy has 1 or 2 more wins or has better teammates. and I'm not even saying those other guys shoulda won mvp. they all probably shouldn't have. but its stupid to rank guys all time with awards that dont even tell how good someone is. nash could win 20 mvps and still be ranked lower than Kobe, hakeem, Shaq and durant

and for lebron fans to value his league mvps so much and then turn around and say he's been the best player the last 10 years when he hasn't won an mvp since 2013 is absolutely disgusting and disingenuous. enough mvp shit. its a "I love this guy more" award by the media

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine thinking Kobe was better than an absolute peak Duncan in '03 or even LeBron in '09, '10, & '13.

[FultzNationRISE]

Bullshit.

We all know LeKing earned his four MVPs, and the only reason he stopped getting them was BECAUSE the media was looking to promote other guys.

Lebron’s MVPs are undisputed. The ones people won after him are heavily disputed.

Thats the difference.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shocking the Kobe fanatic thinks MVP’s are worthless :lol Let me guess, production and FMVP’s are too, it’s all about the rangz baby

[Phoenix]

Translation: Kobe only has one so they're worthless.

If he had four, this thread doesn't get made.

[HunterSThompson]

Imagine thinking Kobe was better than an absolute peak Duncan in '03 or even LeBron in '09, '10, & '13.

honestly I wouldnt be surprised if kobe had more 40 and 50 point games in 2003 than Duncan had in his entire career

and if not for horry missing all 20 of his three point attempts vs the spurs in the playoffs the Lakers 4peat and kobe eliminates Duncan 3 straight times with much better averages


and lebron didn't even know how to win in 2009 or 2010. I dont give a rats ass if rhe guy padded a ton of layups on efficient numbers during the regular season lol. he wasn't a better player. he needed wade to show him how to win. how are you better if you're that raw

[TheCorporation]

Lemme guess Kenny, because brickbe only won 1 in twenty years? :roll:

[HunterSThompson]

Translation: Kobe only has one so they're worthless.

If he had four, this thread doesn't get made.

ok so say right now lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013

[HunterSThompson]

Shocking the Kobe fanatic thinks MVP’s are worthless :lol Let me guess, production and FMVP’s are too, it’s all about the rangz baby



you too. I wanna hear it. say right now lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013 or leave this thread a hypocrite f*ggot

[HunterSThompson]

Lemme guess Kenny, because brickbe only won 1 in twenty years? :roll:

one of you better say it.

... waiting patiently


either lebrons mvps matter and he hasn't been the best since 2013 or the award is worthless

pick one

[Phoenix]

ok so say right now lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013

I have no horse in the Lebron/Kobe race, so I don't care to fall into some 'trap' you think you're laying. Very simply, if Kobe had more MVPs, you'd wouldn't be making this thread. Say otherwise right now. :cheers:

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe should also thank Gasol for his only MVP as well. If Jerry West doesn't gift us Gasol then Kobe goes his entire career without an MVP.

[HunterSThompson]

I have no horse in the Lebron/Kobe race, so I don't care to fall into some 'trap' you think you're laying. Very simply, if Kobe had more MVPs, you'd wouldn't be making this thread. Say otherwise right now. :cheers:

I wouldn't need to make this thread if kobe, Shaq and durant had more mvps because then the best players would represent the league mvp more. it wouldn't mean I'm a hypocrite. it would just give me no reason to lose faith in the award that seemingly NEVER goes goes the best player

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe should also thank Gasol for his only MVP as well. If Jerry West doesn't gift us Gasol then Kobe goes his entire career without an MVP.

I actually wish Kobe never won it in 2008. it wasn't even one of his best 5 seasons. he won it simply cause the Lakers had the best record in the west and the Celtics had too many superstars for KG to win it and Chris paul had a 2nd allstar and Kobe didnt. then Kobe won a game late in the year vs rhe hornets and the voters said "oh well we might as well give him one so we don't look like haters even though we obviousoy are since in 2006 a bunch of voters left Kobe off rheir ballot completely

[tpols]

For his career Kobe has more MVP award shares than Wilt, Hakeem, Moses, Durant, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Garnett, Curry etc.

Based on only MVP voting Kobe is top 10 all time. So I'm not seeing how MVP voting hurts him.

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't need to make this thread if kobe, Shaq and durant had more mvps because then the best players would represent the league mvp more. it wouldn't mean I'm a hypocrite. it would just give me no reason to lose faith in the award that seemingly NEVER goes goes the best player

You don't give a shit about Durant and especially Shaq to make this thread otherwise if Kobe had, like, at least 3 MVPs.

[HunterSThompson]

You don't give a shit about Durant and especially Shaq to make this thread otherwise if Kobe had, like, at least 3 MVPs.

I love Durant. hes my favorite player. I give his rings zero cred but I've said he's the best player in the nba every year

and if kobe had 3 or 4 mvps I wouldn't mind shaq having 3 or 4

[Phoenix]

I love Durant. hes my favorite player. I give his rings zero cred but I've said he's the best player in the nba every year

You love him enough to make this thread if Kobe had more MVPs? I'm betting no.

[tpols]

I love Durant. hes my favorite player. I give his rings zero cred but I've said he's the best player in the nba every year

and if kobe had 3 or 4 mvps I wouldn't mind shaq having 3 or 4

Its always funny to see these clowns have to backtrack on their stance when Shaq is brought up. :lol

Because you know damn well they'd say he was the MDE in his prime yet he only has one of the award.

[HunterSThompson]

You love him enough to make this thread if Kobe had more MVPs? I'm betting no.

I've been saying kobe/Durant and bird are the most skilled players I've ever seen for a while. I dunno where you've been but I'm a huge Durant guy

[Phoenix]

Its always funny to see these clowns have to backtrack on their stance when Shaq is brought up. :lol

Because you know damn well they'd say he was the MDE in his prime yet he only has one of the award.

I actually agree that the MVP award is a tricky thing because Steve Nash having the same number as Kobe and Shaq is crazy. Sometimes who is the MVP and who is the actual 'best player' syncs up perfectly, sometimes it doesn't. But, a poster who has historically advocated for Kobe to win more of them shouldn't be arguing now that it's a worthless achievement. Comes off as sour grapes....

[SouBeachTalents]

I actually agree that the MVP award is a tricky thing because Steve Nash having the same number as Kobe and Shaq is crazy. Sometimes who is the MVP and who is the actual 'best player' syncs up perfectly, sometimes it doesn't. But, a poster who has historically advocated for Kobe to win more of them shouldn't be arguing now that it's a worthless achievement. Comes off as sour grapes....
And of course the years he argues are ridiculous. Kobe had no argument for MVP in ‘03, ‘09 or ‘13

[HunterSThompson]

I actually agree that the MVP award is a tricky thing because Steve Nash having the same number as Kobe and Shaq is crazy. Sometimes who is the MVP and who is the actual 'best player' syncs up perfectly, sometimes it doesn't. But, a poster who has historically advocated for Kobe to win more of them shouldn't be arguing now that it's a worthless achievement. Comes off as sour grapes....

the best player and mvp syncs up maybe 10% of the time

[8Ball]

It's only bullshit to Kobetards because Kobe was never close to winning a 2nd.

My answer to this is: Be better in the regular season.

[HunterSThompson]

It's only bullshit to Kobetards because Kobe was never close to winning a 2nd.

My answer to this is: Be better in the regular season.

would you agree then that lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013

and I dunno who was better than Kobe in the 2006 and 2007 regular season individually

[Phoenix]

the best player and mvp syncs up maybe 10% of the time

In recent memory, most of the top MVP winners were, if not the outright undisputed best player, they were at worst top 3 in the league. You'll have outliers like Nash or Rose but that's not the norm....

[HunterSThompson]

In recent memory, most of the top MVP winners were, if not the outright undisputed best player, they were at worst top 3 in the league. You'll have outliers like Nash or Rose but that's not the norm....

you actually thought harden or Westbrook were arguably the best players in the nba and not just fraudulent stat stuffers lol

[hold this L]

Meltdown from the biggest moron on ish. You think he'd grow some braincells every time he has a new alt, but his posts somehow get worse.

[HunterSThompson]

Meltdown from the biggest moron on ish. You think he'd grow some braincells every time he has a new alt, but his posts somehow get worse.



who's the best player in the nba every year since 2014

[Phoenix]

you actually thought harden or Westbrook were arguably the best players in the nba and not just fraudulent stat stuffers lol

I said most which means.......most. Look at the last 20 years or so.

1999–00 Shaquille O'Neal
2000–01 Allen Iverson
2001–02 Tim Duncan
2002–03 Tim Duncan* (2)
2003–04 Kevin Garnett*
2004–05 Steve Nash*
2005–06 Steve Nash*
2006–07 Dirk Nowitzki
2007–08 Kobe Bryant*
2008–09 LeBron James
2009–10 LeBron Jane's
2010–11 Derrick Rose
2011–12 LeBron James
2012–13 LeBron James
2013–14 Kevin Durant
2014–15 Stephen Curry
2015–16 Stephen Curry
2016–17 Russell Westbrook
2017–18 James Harden
2018–19 Giannis Antetokounmpo
2019–20 Giannis Antetokounmpo
2020–21 Nikola Jokić

Pick out the number of guys who weren't like top 3 that year. How many? 5? So that would leave the other 15 as best/top 3.

Most.

[Phoenix]

Then, let's go back another decade to the 90's and see the MVP award winners:

91- Jordan
92- Jordan
93- Barkley
94- Hakeem
95- Robinson
96- Jordan
97- Malone
98- Jordan
99- Malone

Don't think there's a single argument for anyone above not being a top 3 player that year. 99 Malone maybe, it's been a while. Point stands though....

[HunterSThompson]

I said most which means.......most. Look at the last 20 years or so.

1999–00 Shaquille O'Neal
2000–01 Allen Iverson
2001–02 Tim Duncan
2002–03 Tim Duncan* (2)
2003–04 Kevin Garnett*
2004–05 Steve Nash*
2005–06 Steve Nash*
2006–07 Dirk Nowitzki
2007–08 Kobe Bryant*
2008–09 LeBron James
2009–10 LeBron Jane's
2010–11 Derrick Rose
2011–12 LeBron James
2012–13 LeBron James
2013–14 Kevin Durant
2014–15 Stephen Curry
2015–16 Stephen Curry
2016–17 Russell Westbrook
2017–18 James Harden
2018–19 Giannis Antetokounmpo
2019–20 Giannis Antetokounmpo
2020–21 Nikola Jokić

Pick out the number of guys who weren't like top 3 that year. How many? 5? So that would leave the other 15 as best/top 3.

Most.

the difference between a kobe/shaq or a kobe/lebron or a lebron/Durant and the 3rd best player is almost infinite

like it's not even comparable. it's all time goat candidates and the next guys in line are nowhere close. this is a poor example

Derrick Rose may have performed like a top 3 player one year but was he even remotely close to a kobe or lebron or even a wade. hell to the **** no

a better cut off would be top 2. the 3rd guy can be argued between 5 or 6 guys yearly

[HunterSThompson]

right now it's Durant and giannis and everyone else. the 3rd guy isn't even a blip on the radar to me. and that's including Curry and his teams hot start

[HunterSThompson]

basically all an mvp award means is you were probably a top 3 or 4 player. that shouldn't hold any weight whatsoever

[Phoenix]

the difference between a kobe/shaq or a kobe/lebron or a lebron/Durant and the 3rd best player is almost infinite

like it's not even comparable. it's all time goat candidates and the next guys in line are nowhere close. this is a poor example

Derrick Rose may have performed like a top 3 player one year but was he even remotely close to a kobe or lebron or even a wade. hell to the **** no

a better cut off would be top 2. the 3rd guy can be argued between 5 or 6 guys yearly

Eh not in all cases. You had seasons where it could have been Shaq and Kobe, and the third guy could have been Garnett or Duncan. Or a year like 2009 and 2010 when Lebron won, you had Kobe and Wade. Hell the last 5 years I'd argue the top 3 in and of itself isn't definitive or some massive chasm between 1 and 5, let alone 1 and 3.

[RogueBorg]

right now it's Durant and giannis and everyone else. the 3rd guy isn't even a blip on the radar to me. and that's including Curry and his teams hot start

Well that's just it, MVP has almost always been tied to their teams record. The NBA is not like MLB where a player like Andre Dawson can win an MVP and be on the last place team. In 2005, Nash won because Phoenix won 29 games the year before and then won 62 games when Nash went to Phoenix. Same with Barkley in '93. He went to Phoenix, they had the best record in the NBA and went to the NBA Finals. If the Lakers had a better record in 2006, Kobe probably wins the MVP.

If Golden State continues like this all the way through, Curry probably wins MVP.

[HunterSThompson]

Eh not in all cases. You had seasons where it could have been Shaq and Kobe, and the third guy could have been Garnett or Duncan. Or a year like 2009 and 2010 when Lebron won, you had Kobe and Wade. Hell the last 5 years I'd argue the top 3 in and of itself isn't definitive or some massive chasm between 1 and 5, let alone 1 and 3.


if you're not a transcendental player like a kobe/shaq/duncan/lebron/durant/giannis then you shouldn't even be mentioned for league mvps. and this is why voters should wait a while before handing them out to guys to make sure it's not just a fluke like with westbrook, harden, nash and rose

[Phoenix]

if you're not a transcendental player like a kobe/shaq/duncan/lebron/durant/giannis then you shouldn't even be mentioned for league mvps. and this is why voters should wait a while before handing them out to guys to make sure it's not just a fluke like with westbrook, harden, nash and rose

How do you wait it out? The MVP trophy is awarded season over season. Like, how would that work in 2005, for example?

[ShawkFactory]

honestly I wouldnt be surprised if kobe had more 40 and 50 point games in 2003 than Duncan had in his entire career


It’s really mind-blowing to me sometimes that you are an adult.

[HunterSThompson]

How do you wait it out? The MVP trophy is awarded season over season. Like, how would that work in 2005, for example?

players can get exposed as stat padders, choke artists, system guys and just one hit wonders.

maybe wait for a guy to put together 3 elite years in a row before handing them a trophy.

the media made kobe and shaq put a decades worth in a row before they got an award. with rose and nash they handed them one first year

[Phoenix]

players can get exposed as stat padders, choke artists, system guys and just one hit wonders.

maybe wait for a guy to put together 3 elite years in a row before handing them a trophy.

the media made kobe and shaq put a decades worth in a row before they got an award. with rose and nash they handed them one first year

I do think Nash was aided by the 2005 rules, at least in terms of making the jump from star to superstar. That said, you can't retroactively award a player the MVP for the body of work they put in after a particular year. Nash was also in the league like a decade before he won a MVP. Rose had only put a few seasons in, true, but this is where the definition of 'value' comes into play. The Bulls probably don't make the playoffs in 2011 without Rose. You could have taken Lebron off the Heat in 2011, they're still a good team with Wade and Bosh( hell they won 48 games in 2010 just with Wade).

Kobe wasn't an MVP level player till like 2001, but playing next to peak Shaq was going to take votes away from him. Nothing to do with the league making Kobe wait, and then after Shaq left the Lakers had some lean years until Pau came on-board. Doesn't mean Kobe was any worse a better in general from one season to the next, but you can't really de-couple team record from the equation. The only reason someone like Westbrook won it was because of the triple-double, hadn't been done in 60 years or whatever. If he had averaged like 30/8/8 in 2017 he's not winning with the Thunder winning 47 games( if I recall, I'm too lazy to look up the record at the moment). If Lebron had dropped that in 2009 and the Cavs only win 48 games, he's not winning MVP either. They'd probably have given it to Kobe winning 65 games( his team also had more weapons than the 2009 Cavs).

[HunterSThompson]

It’s really mind-blowing to me sometimes that you are an adult.

just looked up it

Kobe Bryant in 2003 (one year)
19 games of 40+ points
3 games of 50+ points


Tim Duncan's entire career (all 19 seasons)
5 games of 40+ points
1 game of 50+ points


kobe topped Duncans lifetime in a little over a week probly 20 times during his career.

[ShawkFactory]

just looked up it

Kobe Bryant in 2003 (one year)
19 games of 40+ points
3 games of 50+ points


Tim Duncan's entire career (all 19 seasons)
5 games of 40+ points
1 game of 50+ points


kobe topped Duncans lifetime in a little over a week probly 20 times during his career.

I’ll revert back to my previous statement.

[RRR3]

Kenny brutalized in yet another thread. Biff bam, biff bam, he’s up against the ropes getting bloodied left and right! Will no one save him? :(

[Stephonit]

right now it's Durant and giannis and everyone else. the 3rd guy isn't even a blip on the radar to me. and that's including Curry and his teams hot start

Based on...?

The number of times they can score?

Curry's highest scoring game is higher than either KD's or Giannis's. Curry was also sitting out a large number of 4th Qs in his unanimous MVP year with 30+ points through 3 quarters because the games were effectively over.

50 points on 28 shots in a game this year. Find better.

[Gohan]

Lmao at 2001 deserving mvp over iverson. I agree shaq was better but kobe? Yea right not even close. Lets not act like iverson wasnt having a legendary season

[HunterSThompson]

Lmao at 2001 deserving mvp over iverson. I agree shaq was better but kobe? Yea right not even close. Lets not act like iverson wasnt having a legendary season

I didn't say by the definition of the mvp criteria that anyone should have won it over Iverson. I just said in no way shape or form was Iverson a better overall player than Kobe or shaq. not even close actually. Iverson couldn't stop anyone from scoring and Kobe was arguably the best perimeter defender in the nba or right after Payton and Kidd. and offensively Kobe and shaq were both way more efficient and could almost equal ivrsons totals even while sharing shots with each other

[RRR3]

I didn't say by the definition of the mvp criteria that anyone should have won it over Iverson. I just said in no way shape or form was Iverson a better overall player than Kobe or shaq. not even close actually. Iverson couldn't stop anyone from scoring and Kobe was arguably the best perimeter defender in the nba or right after Payton and Kidd. and offensively Kobe and shaq were both way more efficient and could almost equal ivrsons totals even while sharing shots with each other
Kobe couldn’t stop Iverson from scoring :yaohappy:

Brutalized so badly (48 points and the Lakers only loss of the playoffs) Phil had to put a different defender on him.

[Phoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3XWW-oPvhY

[SaintzFury13]

honestly I wouldnt be surprised if kobe had more 40 and 50 point games in 2003 than Duncan had in his entire career

and if not for horry missing all 20 of his three point attempts vs the spurs in the playoffs the Lakers 4peat and kobe eliminates Duncan 3 straight times with much better averages


and lebron didn't even know how to win in 2009 or 2010. I dont give a rats ass if rhe guy padded a ton of layups on efficient numbers during the regular season lol. he wasn't a better player. he needed wade to show him how to win. how are you better if you're that raw

Okay, so ignoring the obviously stupid argument (the myth that LeBron didn't know how to win in 09 or 10 because Kobe sure as hell wasn't winning in those same circumstances), how the hell is Kobe better than LeBron in 2013 after he had won a championship already at that point?

[SouBeachTalents]

Nobody ever talks about how Kobe cost the Lakers a perfect postseason with his horrific 15 point on 7/22 and 6 turnover performance, wasting Shaq’s godly 44/20 effort.

[ImKobe]

Kobe should also thank Gasol for his only MVP as well. If Jerry West doesn't gift us Gasol then Kobe goes his entire career without an MVP.

Lakers were already one of the better teams before Pau you ****ing moron. If Bynum had healthy knees, the Lakers wouldn't have needed Gasol in the first place.


Nobody ever talks about how Kobe cost the Lakers a perfect postseason with his horrific 15 point on 7/22 and 6 turnover performance, wasting Shaq’s godly 44/20 effort.

Yes, because Shaq didn't have bad games in the post-season and Kobe didn't bail them out in many games, including the B2B 45+/10+ games on the road against the Kings & Spurs, or the comeback win in Game 2 @ San Antonio when Shaq had 19 pts on 21 shots..

In 2001, he averaged 8 ppg (top 5) on 63.2%TS (#1 among players with 50+ FGA) in the 4th quarter of the Playoffs and also had the highest TS%(62.7%) in crunch time of the '01 POs (Game within 5 pts, last 5 minutes).

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Absolutely worthless. That's why guys like Steve Nash have more MVPS then Shaq or Kobe. Guys like Derrick Rose have more mvps then Wade or Kawhi.

It's just a silly regular season mvp driven by media narrative. The finals MVPS is what counts because it's less narrative driven and it shows the big game players.

[SouBeachTalents]

Even more shocking a stan of a guy who will never win MVP also believes it’s worthless :lol Say what you want about MVP, a role player like 2014 Kawhi would never win it.

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe couldn’t stop Iverson from scoring :yaohappy:

Brutalized so badly (48 points and the Lakers only loss of the playoffs) Phil had to put a different defender on him.

kobe wasn't even matched up with Iverson most of the time and even if you wanna believe they were he shot barely 40% and like 25% threes. you don't stop someone from scoring that shoots 30 times a game.

and I never said scoring wise Iverson wasnt one of the best. defensively he was trash. and he never knew how to create for others. Kobe wasn't one of the top 5 playmaker but he was always the leader in assists for his title teams and has never ending compilations on youtube of his passing skills. Iverson doesn't. and kobe was making all defensive teams while guys posted up Iverson with a smile on their face cause they knew it would be an easy bucket. as an overall player Iverson wasnt very good. Kobe could go get 17 or 18 rebounds at the time randomly and could co exist with others


its funny how all the things lebron fans worship their guy for Kobe had over iverson and you guys just pretend being a complete player doesn't count for anything when it fits your agenda. it's not like kobe was air balling free throws and every shot outside the paint or passing up clutch shots to give Iverson an edge on kobe like how we shit on lebron

you guys really have zero argument for Iverson EVER being in the class of a kobe bean bryant in 2001. and that's Iverson best year being compared to kobes 5th or 6th best season

[HunterSThompson]

Okay, so ignoring the obviously stupid argument (the myth that LeBron didn't know how to win in 09 or 10 because Kobe sure as hell wasn't winning in those same circumstances), how the hell is Kobe better than LeBron in 2013 after he had won a championship already at that point?

lol wtf kobe was a proven winner and stepped up under pressure by age 21. he already had IT and by age 22 he was basically a finished product. lebron wasn't anything close to that till way later in his career

[HunterSThompson]

Even more shocking a stan of a guy who will never win MVP also believes it’s worthless :lol Say what you want about MVP, a role player like 2014 Kawhi would never win it.

so why won't you admit LeBron hasn't been the best player since 2013

[Phoenix]

Even more shocking a stan of a guy who will never win MVP also believes it’s worthless :lol Say what you want about MVP, a role player like 2014 Kawhi would never win it.

Lol, no surprise there from the resident Kawhit super-stan. :oldlol:

[HunterSThompson]

Lol, no surprise there from the resident Kawhit super-stan. :oldlol:

you literally already admitted all the mvp really means is you're a top 3 or 4 player. you dont even have a dog in this fight anymore.

[SouBeachTalents]

so why won't you admit LeBron hasn't been the best player since 2013
MVP, like any specific criteria, isn’t the end all be all. I don’t think it’s a coincidence though that the players typically in the top 5 all have 4 MVP’s

[HunterSThompson]

MVP, like any specific criteria, isn’t the end all be all. I don’t think it’s a coincidence though that the players typically in the top 5 all have 4 MVP’s

and that's the problem though. cause who's winning 1 on 1

shaq or wilt... probly shaq

Hakeem or kareem.. probly hakeem

Durant or magic.. probly Durant

kobe or lebron... probly kobe

bill Russell isn't better than garnett either

and if it's just about who's better in a 5 on 5 setting.. who's picking lebron or wilt over shaq. who's picking Russell over hakeem.

all a league mvp means is you were a top 3 or 4 player on a team with a ton of help during a year that the media liked you


magic is more likeable. so was lebron.. they didn't rape people like kobe or trash the media like Durant


and I'm still waiting for you to say lebron hasn't been the best since 2013

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Even more shocking a stan of a guy who will never win MVP also believes it’s worthless :lol Say what you want about MVP, a role player like 2014 Kawhi would never win it.

And Kareem won it instead for not even making the playoffs.

[SouBeachTalents]

And Kareem won it instead for not even making the playoffs.
I can assure that version of Kareem blows away 2014 Kawhi.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I can assure that version of Kareem blows away 2014 Kawhi.

Couldn't even make the playoffs and there was only like 13 teams back then :roll:

Papa Kawhi in 2016 led his team to 67 wins and a 40-1 home record and there was 30 teams in the league

[HunterSThompson]

lebron won all his mvp trophies before he learned how to shoot. his most skilled versions have zero mvps lol. that alone should tell you how valuable the award is

even up until 2013 popovich was like "just let him shoot" and it nearly worked. 1 rebound and that legit could have beaten lebron

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

and that's the problem though. cause who's winning 1 on 1

shaq or wilt... probly shaq

Hakeem or kareem.. probly hakeem

Durant or magic.. probly Durant

kobe or lebron... probly kobe

bill Russell isn't better than garnett either

and if it's just about who's better in a 5 on 5 setting.. who's picking lebron or wilt over shaq. who's picking Russell over hakeem.

all a league mvp means is you were a top 3 or 4 player on a team with a ton of help during a year that the media liked you


magic is more likeable. so was lebron.. they didn't rape people like kobe or trash the media like Durant


and I'm still waiting for you to say lebron hasn't been the best since 2013
You have never played one on one if you think Kobe would beat LeBron lmao. Yes I’m aware Kobe was more skilled. It doesn’t matter in one on one, LeBron would just bully him physically. Same reason Kareem bullied Dr. J when they had a one on one contest back in the day.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

lebron won all his mvp trophies before he learned how to shoot. his most skilled versions have zero mvps lol. that alone should tell you how valuable the award is

even up until 2013 popovich was like "just let him shoot" and it nearly worked. 1 rebound and that legit could have beaten lebron

:oldlol:

Just put the greatest defender of all time kawhi on him. Don't forget that part of it

[HunterSThompson]

You have never played one on one if you think Kobe would beat LeBron lmao. Yes I’m aware Kobe was more skilled. It doesn’t matter in one on one, LeBron would just bully him physically. Same reason Kareem bullied Dr. J when they had a one on one contest back in the day.

you've obviously never watched a single game of kobe vs lebron cause they've had hundreds of 1 on 1 moments and kobe eviscerated his ass like 100 to 20 lmao

[RRR3]

duhhhhh
I always forget I’m talking to someone who can’t even comprehend having a shred of intellect when I talk to you.

[Axe]

2015 & 2016 at least you're man enough to admit he wasn't better than the mighty king kong

Good take op rt but that's as far as you can go though

[SaintzFury13]

lol wtf kobe was a proven winner and stepped up under pressure by age 21. he already had IT and by age 22 he was basically a finished product. lebron wasn't anything close to that till way later in his career

Kobe won at 22 off the backbone of Shaq. LeBron took a team with one of the worst supporting casts of all time to the NBA Finals at age 22. The idea that LeBron wasn't anything close to that is laughable.

And being a proven winner doesn't mean jack shit. He wasn't winning in the same circumstances that LeBron was in. In fact he doesn't come anywhere close to achieving the level of success LeBron does in that situation. Kobe's game was not built to sustain a team like that. He's not a guy who can handle running the offense, being the number one option, the guy who guards the best teams player, and still manages to lead his team to 60+ wins.

[Gohan]

kobe wasn't even matched up with Iverson most of the time and even if you wanna believe they were he shot barely 40% and like 25% threes. you don't stop someone from scoring that shoots 30 times a game.

and I never said scoring wise Iverson wasnt one of the best. defensively he was trash. and he never knew how to create for others. Kobe wasn't one of the top 5 playmaker but he was always the leader in assists for his title teams and has never ending compilations on youtube of his passing skills. Iverson doesn't. and kobe was making all defensive teams while guys posted up Iverson with a smile on their face cause they knew it would be an easy bucket. as an overall player Iverson wasnt very good. Kobe could go get 17 or 18 rebounds at the time randomly and could co exist with others


its funny how all the things lebron fans worship their guy for Kobe had over iverson and you guys just pretend being a complete player doesn't count for anything when it fits your agenda. it's not like kobe was air balling free throws and every shot outside the paint or passing up clutch shots to give Iverson an edge on kobe like how we shit on lebron

you guys really have zero argument for Iverson EVER being in the class of a kobe bean bryant in 2001. and that's Iverson best year being compared to kobes 5th or 6th best season


Iverson wasnt very good? Muphucka iverson is a top 10 player of all time

[Phoenix]

you literally already admitted all the mvp really means is you're a top 3 or 4 player. you dont even have a dog in this fight anymore.

I never did have a dog in it and said as much 2 pages ago. The only reason you keep barking is because your dog in the fight only has one. All I said was 'mostly'( there's that word again) when you look at the MVP lineage, whoever won can at worst be argued a top 3 player with exceptions, but team record will play into it. It's why Kobe didnt win in 2006, for example, while Nash did. Though really, Dirk could have won that year as well.

[8Ball]

20 years and only 1 MVP.

If Gasol didn't join that year Kobe would have zero.

[outofstomach]

Kobe won at 22 off the backbone of Shaq. LeBron took a team with one of the worst supporting casts of all time to the NBA Finals at age 22. The idea that LeBron wasn't anything close to that is laughable.

And being a proven winner doesn't mean jack shit. He wasn't winning in the same circumstances that LeBron was in. In fact he doesn't come anywhere close to achieving the level of success LeBron does in that situation. Kobe's game was not built to sustain a team like that. He's not a guy who can handle running the offense, being the number one option, the guy who guards the best teams player, and still manages to lead his team to 60+ wins.

you just confirmed my suspicions of you being a closeted lesexual, don’t reply to me ever again soy boy cuck :lol

[outofstomach]

dirty ass old man acted like he was this objective watcher of basketball who only speaks facts just to spew some dogmatic malformed biased garbage like that :lol this site is something else

[HunterSThompson]

20 years and only 1 MVP.

If Gasol didn't join that year Kobe would have zero.

until you admit lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013 then lebrons mvps are totally worthless

[SaintzFury13]

you just confirmed my suspicions of you being a closeted lesexual, don’t reply to me ever again soy boy cuck :lol

I haven't responded to anything you've said in weeks now you dumbshit.

But sure, I'll bite. Name one thing I just said in that post that was incorrect and if you have the balls to, explain how and why. I'm sure this will go as well as all the other times you proved yourself to be an idiot without me even needing to try.


dirty ass old man acted like he was this objective watcher of basketball who only speaks facts just to spew some dogmatic malformed biased garbage like that :lol this site is something else

Okay, so explain what's wrong with it then. Grow a pair you *****.

[SaintzFury13]

until you admit lebron hasn't been the best player since 2013 then lebrons mvps are totally worthless

LeBron was the best player in the NBA from 2009 until 2018. Change my mind.

[Gohan]

LeBron was the best player in the NBA from 2009 until 2018. Change my mind.

Notice he had to wait till iverson was washed to be the best. Lebron was ducking and dodging, he didnt want to see iverson in the playoffs

[getting_old]

What does it gain a man to win regular season MVP and then not get past the first round of the playoffs

Players are wiser about wasting energy in the regular season these days, why bother wasting a drop of sweat or blood or anything else if it doesn't help playoff positioning

When David Robinson was awarded the MVP trophy in front of Hakeem, and Hakeem then wiped the floor with David, it put things into a little more perspective.

[SouBeachTalents]

What does it gain a man to win regular season MVP and then not get past the first round of the playoffs

Players are wiser about wasting energy in the regular season these days, why bother wasting a drop of sweat or blood or anything else if it doesn't help playoff positioning

When David Robinson was awarded the MVP trophy in front of Hakeem, and Hakeem then wiped the floor with David, it put things into a little more perspective.
This philosophy is exactly why players don't give a fck about the regular season anymore. I don't wanna hear anybody bitch about how players load manage and don't take the regular season seriously if you agree with this sentiment.

[getting_old]

This philosophy is exactly why players don't give a fck about the regular season anymore. I don't wanna hear anybody bitch about how players load manage and don't take the regular season seriously if you agree with this sentiment.


the Oilers seem to be going out to win every game... here's the President's Trophy/Cup/Ashtray, and swept in the first round in the NHL playoffs... put the banner up for most points in a season... :D

on the other hand, the GIants have won 3 World Series recently and few baseball fans even remember this or care at all

[SaintzFury13]

dirty ass old man acted like he was this objective watcher of basketball who only speaks facts just to spew some dogmatic malformed biased garbage like that :lol this site is something else

I'm still waiting.