Barkley did the most with the least [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

hateraid

11-12-2021, 05:16 AM

Looking back at my Sixers it's hysterical what type of help Barkley had on the early 90's Sixer. He was arguably the best power forward and possibly the best player at the time. Rebounding King, baby Shaq on offense, vocal leader, proven alpha on team USA, MVP winner..

But look at what he was surrounded by...Chicago had Pippen, New York was a talent pool, Detroit was built to suppress Barkley, Indiana was a tier down from NY. Barkley's second best play was Hawkins. He's my favorite of all time but not a true second banana.

Even coaches in the east were stacked. Lynam was no Jackson, Daly, or Riley.

Such a shame Barkley didn't have the perfect storm. He was always a warrior without the weapons. You just can't take away the load he carried.

Phoenix

11-12-2021, 07:50 AM

I don't think it's 'arguable' that he was the best PF peak for peak with Malone. It took Barkley leaving his prime in like 95 for Malone to be 'better'. But give me any version of Barkley between like 87 and 94. And as I've said previously, there were quite a number of Bulls-Sixers games in that 89-91 period where Sir Charles, not MJ, looked like the dominant player on the floor.

warriorfan

11-12-2021, 07:54 AM

Op is a f.agget

AussieSteve

11-12-2021, 08:22 AM

One thing about Barkley that people underrate is his selflessness and team first mentality on offense.

Look at his late 80s and early 90s Philly teams and count how many players had their career best scoring years alongside him. Most of them.

He scored with the greatest league-adjusted efficiency ever, because he rarely took a shot he didn't like. He'd much rather get his team mates involved than put up 30 shots himself. And he led the 2nd best offense in the league, behind Magics lakers, in back to back seasons, with Hersey as his #2 and Gminski as his #3!!

Phoenix

11-12-2021, 08:50 AM

Full Court

11-12-2021, 11:53 AM

If he had won a championship or two, people would be talking about him being in the top 15 all time.

Round Mound

11-12-2021, 05:10 PM

Robbed From The 1989-90 MVP!

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

11-12-2021, 05:21 PM

Best peak PF in my book.

He's got insane advanced stats, and this was at a time before analytics were even a thing. Chuck's offense was so good in the early 90s that he was impacting games on that end like Magic.

Carrying that kinda weight (no pun lol), you can excuse the lack of defense. To some degree anyway.

Im Still Ballin

11-12-2021, 08:12 PM

Julius Erving, Moses Malone, Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney, Hershey Hawkins, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen.

Im Still Ballin

11-12-2021, 08:17 PM

The Sixers had one of the greatest seasons ever only two years prior to drafting Chuck.

He was drafted into a fantastic situation.

iamgine

11-12-2021, 08:41 PM

3ba11

11-12-2021, 09:47 PM

.
* The 90' Sixers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls, while Hawkins destroyed Pippen across the board offensively (PER, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)

- so Jordan beat Barkley in 1990 when Barkley had the better-producing sidekick and a better-ranked defense

* Hawkins was an all-star in 91' while Pippen wasn't

- so Jordan beat Barkley when Barkley had the all-star

* The 93' Suns had 3 perennial all-stars and the Bulls only 2

- so Jordan beat Barkley when Barkley had a super-team

Axe

11-12-2021, 10:00 PM

kawhileonard2

11-12-2021, 10:47 PM

Julius Erving, Moses Malone, Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney, Hershey Hawkins, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen.

This!

Thenameless

11-12-2021, 10:52 PM

Yes. Barkley led the Dream Team in scoring. A team with the greatest collection of talent ever assembled. And he led. Remember that.

3ba11

11-12-2021, 10:59 PM

No pip, no chip.

No triangle, no miracle.

No phil, no kill.

No shaq, no whack.

No pau, no pow.

:(

Lebron never made the playoffs until Larry Hughes arrived (22/6/5 all-defender acquisition):

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/t3TEzx.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/LIlDOj.gif

In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds/good teams in the playoffs..

So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did because they carried lottery casts to low seeds and he didn't - Lebron infact got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds..

No pip, no chip.

:(

2004 Cavs.... 0 all-stars
2005 Cavs.... 2 all-stars
2006 Cavs.... added a 22/5/5 acquisition and the future COY

^^^ that's a lot of improvement over 3 years

Lebron was lottery in 04' and 05', which gave him 3 seasons to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the playoffs for the first time in 2006.. Otoh, Jordan didn't get any time to develop his teams - his teams were thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as 8 seeds, and therefore underperformed Lebron's veteran high seeds.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop the Bulls (1988), he made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron....

The difference is that Jordan was carrying rookie low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning.

hateraid

11-13-2021, 04:06 AM

Did 3ball literally hijack this thread to pump Jordan's boots?
What a moron

HBK_Kliq_2

11-13-2021, 04:42 AM

Kevin Johnson is a 5 time all nba selections and is better then kyle Lowry. Plenty of help for fat boy :no:

SouBeachTalents

11-13-2021, 05:45 AM

Kevin Johnson is a 5 time all nba selections and is better then kyle Lowry. Plenty of help for fat boy :no:
If Pippen & Grant were injured in the ‘93 Finals Barkley would be a FMVP too.

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 06:40 AM

Kevin Johnson is a 5 time all nba selections and is better then kyle Lowry. Plenty of help for fat boy :no:

How come Kawhit hasn't made the conference finals yet with 6 time all NBA Paul George?

ShawkFactory

11-13-2021, 08:54 AM

Did 3ball literally hijack this thread to pump Jordan's boots?
What a moron

Yea I was a little confused as to how a Barkley thread turned into a Larry Hughes one.

tpols

11-13-2021, 09:27 AM

Not only one of the greatest offensive players of all time by every metric (especially ORTG) but also a fierce competitor and best height adjusted rebounder of all time. Barkley was really like 6'4.5 and he was a rebounding champion amongst a stacked era of 7 footers.

BigShotBob

11-13-2021, 10:10 AM

If Pippen & Grant were injured in the ‘93 Finals Barkley would be a FMVP too.

KJ was fine everyone is banged up and injured by the post season MJ wasn't even 100% and he averaged 41

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 10:22 AM

Yea I was a little confused as to how a Barkley thread turned into a Larry Hughes one.

They let the innate run wild two days after the ban, so not sure what purpose the ban served in the first place.

3ba11

11-13-2021, 11:00 AM

If Pippen & Grant were injured in the ‘93 Finals Barkley would be a FMVP too.

Richard Dumas was a similar talent to Pippen and he was the Suns' 5th option for the 3-all-star Suns, while the Bulls only had 2 all-stars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzIKvx9gmk&t=07m40s

so KJ's injury merely lessened the Suns talent advantage.. And Majerle had higher gamescore and arguably outplayed Pippen, who shot 46% true shooting and let 5th option Dumas go off (Dumas won Game 5 and averaged 16 on 57% for series)

There's a reason MJ had to average 41 and it wasn't because Pippen played well.. Pippen infact had the lowest advanced stats ever for a winning sidekick in those playoffs (PER, WS/48, BPM, VORP, TS)., He had lower PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade, who was equal-scoring partner to lebron in those ECF

Manny98

11-13-2021, 11:19 AM

Yea I was a little confused as to how a Barkley thread turned into a Larry Hughes one.
:roll:

3ba11

11-13-2021, 11:21 AM

Yea I was a little confused as to how a Barkley thread turned into a Larry Hughes one.

Axe said "No Pip No Chip" here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499149-Barkley-did-the-most-with-the-least&p=14474166#post14474166

that's how.

FireDavidKahn

11-13-2021, 11:29 AM

Basically you're making excuses as to why he never won anything. He was great but just not that great.

tpols

11-13-2021, 11:58 AM

If Pippen & Grant were injured in the ‘93 Finals Barkley would be a FMVP too.

Pippen shot 46 TS in that Suns series. :oldlol:

He was horse shit. That was a 40+ ppg carry job by MJ.

ShawkFactory

11-13-2021, 12:27 PM

Axe said "No Pip No Chip" here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499149-Barkley-did-the-most-with-the-least&p=14474166#post14474166

that's how.

What’s that have to do with Larry Hughes?

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 12:55 PM

What’s that have to do with Larry Hughes?

Nothing. The word 'Pip' triggered an auto-reply protocol.

HBK_Kliq_2

11-13-2021, 01:35 PM

If Pippen & Grant were injured in the ‘93 Finals Barkley would be a FMVP too.

He played curry with klay missing a game just like Jordan played magic with worthy missing a game in 1991 finals.

Does curry look like he needs klay this season?

HBK_Kliq_2

11-13-2021, 01:39 PM

How come Kawhit hasn't made the conference finals yet with 6 time all NBA Paul George?

2020 clippers had the best offense and best SRS in the west conference then the bubble happened.

2021 kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares but every game was crammed together due to virus and there was injuries to kawhi, giannis, Irving, harden. Clippers still made their first ever west finals.

Kawhi's clippers run has been a success but just ruined by virus shenanigans.

3ba11

11-13-2021, 01:45 PM

Nothing. The word 'Pip' triggered an auto-reply protocol.

Lies

the comment "no pip no chip" was the trigger because it weaponizes a coincidence - the coincidence is that Jordan's only time without Pippen was a time when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery and didn't win any playoff series for their first few seasons just like Jordan, so the comment knocks Jordan for losing at a time when everyone infact loses.. Since the comment is erroneous in this way, it vastly overrates a low-producing bum like Pippen that just happened to be there as the goat entered his prime

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:46 PM

2020 clippers had the best offense and best SRS in the west conference then the bubble happened.

2021 kawhi led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares but every game was crammed together due to virus and there was injuries to kawhi, giannis, Irving, harden. Clippers still made their first ever west finals.

Kawhi's clippers run has been a success but just ruined by virus shenanigans.

How come Kawhit hasn't made it to the conference finals with 6 time all NBA Paul George?

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:47 PM

Lies

the comment "no pip no chip" was the trigger because it weaponizes a coincidence - the coincidence is that Jordan's only time without Pippen was a time when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery and didn't win any playoff series for their first few seasons just like Jordan, so the comment knocks Jordan for losing at a time when everyone infact loses.. Since the comment is erroneous in this way, it vastly overrates a low-producing bum like Pippen that just happened to be there as the goat entered his prime

You like Pizza or Tacos?

HBK_Kliq_2

11-13-2021, 01:52 PM

How come Kawhit hasn't made it to the conference finals with 6 time all NBA Paul George?

He did last season, he led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares.
LeBron took 9 years to win a title in the east, kawhi did it in 1 year.

Chris Paul never led clippers to west finals, kawhi did it in 1 year (bubble doesn't count).

3ba11

11-13-2021, 01:52 PM

How come Kawhit made it to the conference finals with 6 time all NBA Paul George?

Kawhi won a ring where he didn't have an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention (no 1b's) and therefore faced 1-man team defensive coverage, which is the hardest path to dominant stats.. This is the highest quality ring (no 1b's) and he didn't have a 3rd star either (no super-team).

The only guys with rings of this caliber (no 1b's, aka maximum defensive coverage, and no super-teams) are Kawhi, Dirk, Hakeem, Kobe and MJ

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:53 PM

Kawhi won a ring where he didn't have an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention (no 1b's) and therefore faced 1-man team defensive coverage, which is the hardest path to dominant stats.. This is the highest quality ring (no 1b's) and he didn't have a 3rd star either (no super-team).

The only guys with rings of this caliber (no 1b's, aka maximum defensive coverage, and no super-teams) are Kawhi, Dirk, Hakeem, Kobe and MJ

So......pizza?

3ba11

11-13-2021, 01:54 PM

So......pizza?

Lebron always had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention while winning the Finals, so he never faced 1-man team defensive coverage while winning a Finals (never had a carry-job in the Finals)... he even had equal-scoring partners during several ECF's (11', 14')

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:54 PM

Show me where Lebron faced 1-man team defensive coverage while winning a Finals - he always had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, and he even had this during several ECF's (11', 14')

I like Pepperoni and Pineapple on mine. You?

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:56 PM

He did last season, he led the entire playoffs in offensive win shares.
LeBron took 9 years to win a title in the east, kawhi did it in 1 year.

Chris Paul never led clippers to west finals, kawhi did it in 1 year (bubble doesn't count).

What was Kawhit's conference finals stats last year?

3ba11

11-13-2021, 01:56 PM

I like Pepperoni and Pineapple on mine. You?

Lebron always had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention while winning the Finals, so he never faced 1-man team defensive coverage while winning a Finals (never had a carry-job in the Finals)... he even had equal-scoring partners during several ECF's (11', 14')

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 01:57 PM

Lebron always had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention while winning the Finals, so he never faced 1-man team defensive coverage while winning a Finals (never had a carry-job in the Finals)... he even had equal-scoring partners during several ECF's (11', 14')

https://previews.123rf.com/images/gbh007/gbh0071408/gbh007140800374/30406340-close-up-of-pepperoni-and-pineapple-pizza-on-white-background.jpg

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:01 PM

https://previews.123rf.com/images/gbh007/gbh0071408/gbh007140800374/30406340-close-up-of-pepperoni-and-pineapple-pizza-on-white-background.jpg

Your guy needs equal-scoring partners in the Finals - mine doesn't and can carry the load (scoreboard)

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:02 PM

Your guy needs equal-scoring partners in the Finals - mine doesn't and can carry the load (scoreboard)

http://nsfw-gif.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/JadaStevens-hot-ass-lingerie-tease.gif

No Pip

ShawkFactory

11-13-2021, 02:02 PM

Your guy needs equal-scoring partners in the Finals - mine doesn't and can carry the load (scoreboard)

"your guy" and "my guy" says it all :lol

You're too old to be an annoying little bitch fanboy. Stop it.

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:04 PM

"your guy" and "my guy" says it all :lol

You're too old to be an annoying little bitch fanboy. Stop it.

Considering I haven't made a single argument on behalf of the one he calls 'my guy'. Shit is hilarious :lol

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:09 PM

Considering I haven't made a single argument on behalf of the one he calls 'my guy'. Shit is hilarious :lol

You're a Lebron-homer.. regurgitate all the shit your hear from Shannon Sharpe and Nick Wright

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:10 PM

You're a Lebron-homer.. regurgitate all the shit your hear from Shannon Sharpe and Nick Wright

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcrobaticAdorableElkhound-size_restricted.gif

89 Pippen

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:11 PM

http://nsfw-gif.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/JadaStevens-hot-ass-lingerie-tease.gif

No Pip

Similar to your heroes Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe, you're foolishly weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only time without Pippen was a time when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery and didn't win any playoff series for their first few seasons just like Jordan, so the comment knocks Jordan for losing at a time when everyone infact loses.. Since the comment is erroneous in this way, it vastly overrates a low-producing bum like Pippen that just happened to be there as the goat entered his prime

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:13 PM

Similar to your heroes Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe, you're foolishly weaponizing the coincidence that Jordan's only time without Pippen was a time when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery and didn't win any playoff series for their first few seasons just like Jordan, so the comment knocks Jordan for losing at a time when everyone infact loses.. Since the comment is erroneous in this way, it vastly overrates a low-producing bum like Pippen that just happened to be there as the goat entered his prime

http://cdnio.luscious.net/39/lusciousnet_lizzie-tucker-pic-2_1158470578.gif

09 Mo Williams

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

11-13-2021, 02:13 PM

You like Pizza or Tacos?

Kawhi won a ring where he didn't have an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention (no 1b's) and therefore faced 1-man team defensive coverage, which is the hardest path to dominant stats.. This is the highest quality ring (no 1b's) and he didn't have a 3rd star either (no super-team).

The only guys with rings of this caliber (no 1b's, aka maximum defensive coverage, and no super-teams) are Kawhi, Dirk, Hakeem, Kobe and MJ

https://www.funcage.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Hubo-the-Robot.gif

So......pizza?

Lebr...

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-08-2015/KA_g_d.gif

Yup basically

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:17 PM

http://cdnio.luscious.net/39/lusciousnet_lizzie-tucker-pic-2_1158470578.gif

09 Mo Williams

don't be surprised that Lebron lost the 09' ECF with 18 on 38% from Mo because it's a trend - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, so he never had a carry-job against a good team in 2 decades of playing... He can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15').. Since he can't win with high scoring, Lebron needs elite 1st options to play sidekick - guys that can routinely outscore him for a series (or for entire playoff runs like 11' or 20').

Otoh, Jordan could win with high scoring because his scoring was partially-assisted, thereby elevating teammate role, and he had elite jumpshooting skill, so he could score while the ball moves (good brand)... Accordingly, jordan beat many top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (many carry-jobs against top teams).

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:18 PM

don't be surprised that Lebron lost the 09' ECF with 18 on 38% from Mo because it's a trend - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, so he never had a carry-job against a good team in 2 decades of playing... He can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he can't win with high scoring - his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15').. Since he can't win with high scoring, Lebron needs elite 1st options to play sidekick - guys that can outscore him when needed (even for entire playoff runs like 11' or 20').

Otoh, Jordan could win with high scoring because his scoring was partially-assisted, thereby elevating teammate role, and he had elite jumpshooting skill, so he could score while the ball moves (good brand)... Accordingly, jordan beat many top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (many carry-jobs against top teams).

https://www.bebuzee.com/images/profile/wall-images/2015_03_06_17_42_34google%20dd%20booty%20pop.gif

No Pip.....

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:20 PM

No Pip.....

05' Hughes... 21.6 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.157 WS/48.. 3.7 VORP
90' Pippen.... 16.3 PER.. 1.8 BPM.. 0.087 WS/48.. 3.0 VORP

But again, Hughes joined a ball-dominator that turned him into a spot-up shooter, while Pippen played alongside the goat assist target that elevated his role and allowed him to develop.

So it's a skill deficit for Lebron - his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping).. ultimately, he only knows how to team-hop, and doesn't know how to WIN (organic).

Infact Pippen's migraine shows how Jordan climbed the organic learning curve and Lebron didn't... Jordan learned that he needed to support Pippen more during those tough times - so when X-man was destroying Pippen in the 92' ECSF, Jordan confronted him in Game 7 as X-man was bullying Pippen and about to break him... This prevented another migraine and the Bulls avoided massive upset - only Pippen's poor play in that series nearly derailed the repeat.. But Jordan had climbed the organic learning curve and knew to support Pippen during that time.. Guys like Giannis, MJ, Kobe, Bird, Dirk - they climbed this organic learning curve and learned to win, while Lebron only learned to team-hop.

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:22 PM

05' Hughes... 21.6 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.157 WS/48.. 3.7 VORP
90' Pippen.... 16.3 PER.. 1.8 BPM.. 0.087 WS/48.. 3.0 VORP

But again, Hughes joined a ball-dominator that turned him into a spot-up shooter, while Pippen played alongside the goat assist target that elevated his role and allowed him to develop.

So it's a skill deficit for Lebron - his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping).. ultimately, he only knows how to team-hop, and doesn't know how to WIN (organic).

Infact Pippen's migraine shows how Jordan climbed the organic learning curve and Lebron didn't... Jordan learned that he needed to support Pippen more during those tough times - so when X-man was destroying Pippen in the 92' ECSF, Jordan confronted him in Game 7 as X-man was bullying Pippen and about to break him... This prevented another migraine and the Bulls avoided massive upset - only Pippen's poor play in that series nearly derailed the repeat.. But Jordan had climbed the organic learning curve and knew to support Pippen during that time.. Guys like Giannis, MJ, Kobe, Bird, Dirk - they climbed this organic learning curve and learned to win, while Lebron only learned to team-hop.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/d7/fe/cdd7fee8d407cfc92eeafde280cb02df.gif

09 Mo Williams

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:24 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/d7/fe/cdd7fee8d407cfc92eeafde280cb02df.gif

09 Mo Williams

The 2014 Finals had nearly even odds, yet Lebron lost by record amount... And it wasn't a fluke - it's standard for Lebron to fall hard in the Finals compared to the initial expectation - specifically, Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 but fell to Finals underdog or loser every year except the Ray Allen miracle.. Again, it's standard for Lebron to flop in the Finals compared to the initial expectation.. Ultimately, his ball-dominance results in weak teammate fits and inferior strategy (ball-dominance), which yields lower team ceilings/Finals records.. So 2014 wasn't some fluke or bad situation - it was standard..

"B-b-but the Spurs just got hot!!!"... Yeah, so did the Magic, Mavs and Warriors...Ball-domination lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. That's why ball-domination is inferior strategy to ball movement, which wears the defense down more and wins the battle of attrition - the best defense is a good offense - a tenet of all competition.

Furthermore, the problem is that Lebron has numerous series losses while shooting under 40%, while MJ doesn't have any - so there are series where Lebron's shooting efficiency can be blamed for the loss, but none for Jordan.

And everyone will claim that Lebron had no chance against the 15' Warriors and it's a miracle that he even won 2 games - but that's because Lebron made it look hard to win 2 games against the Warriors, while Marc Gasol made it look easy in those same playoffs.. i.e. Lebron played exactly like Westbrook on offense and Kukoc on defense, yet he was praised for it despite losing - it's a double-standard.. Some of his teammates played poorly, but Lebron was playing Harden-ball, so how can you blame them.

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:25 PM

The 2014 Finals had nearly even odds, yet Lebron lost by record amount... And it wasn't a fluke - it's standard for Lebron to fall hard in the Finals compared to the initial expectation - specifically, Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 but fell to Finals underdog or loser every year except the Ray Allen miracle.. Again, it's standard for Lebron to flop in the Finals compared to the initial expectation.. Ultimately, his ball-dominance results in weak teammate fits and inferior strategy (ball-dominance), which yields lower team ceilings/Finals records.. So 2014 wasn't some fluke or bad situation - it was standard..

"B-b-but the Spurs just got hot!!!"... Yeah, so did the Magic, Mavs and Warriors...Ball-domination lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. That's why ball-domination is inferior strategy to ball movement, which wears the defense down more and wins the battle of attrition - the best defense is a good offense - a tenet of all competition.

Furthermore, the problem is that Lebron has numerous series losses while shooting under 40%, while MJ doesn't have any - so there are series where Lebron's shooting efficiency can be blamed for the loss, but none for Jordan.

And everyone will claim that Lebron had no chance against the 15' Warriors and it's a miracle that he even won 2 games - but that's because Lebron made it look hard to win 2 games against the Warriors, while Marc Gasol made it look easy in those same playoffs.. i.e. Lebron played exactly like Westbrook on offense and Kukoc on defense, yet he was praised for it despite losing - it's a double-standard.. Some of his teammates played poorly, but Lebron was playing Harden-ball, so how can you blame them.

https://c.tenor.com/u7-KXZ21xNQAAAAC/lol-twerk.gif

No Chip

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:26 PM

https://c.tenor.com/u7-KXZ21xNQAAAAC/lol-twerk.gif

No Chip

Lebron's super-teams are the on-paper/preseason favorite every year (2011-2016), but fall to underdog as the season progress while another team becomes the juggernaut and ends up the Finals favorite (Spurs, Warriors).

So the historical record is that Lebron's has the on-paper/preseason favorite status (talent advantage), and therefore cedes this favorite status due to brand of ball (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic, Suns), aka Lebron's inferior brand of ball causes his lower team ceilings/FInals records/weaker teams than other greats.

Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat:

2014 Wade Playoffs...... 18.5 PER.. 0.086 WS/48.. 28.6 pts per 100.. 106 ortg
1993 Pippen Playoffs'.... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 26.2 pts per 100.. 102 ortg

Jordan three-peated because he averaged 41 in the Finals, while Lebron averaged 13 less than MJ so he lost to the Spurs by 13 ppg - Lebron needed 41 to win like Jordan but failed and lost by record amount.. Btw, both the Bulls/Suns averaged exactly 106.7 ppg in the 93' Finals, so all of Jordan's points were needed.

And you can't complain about Lebron's 2014 cast because the Heat were defending champs with 4 HOF - so Bosh could've stepped up but brand of ball reduced him to spot-up shooter (Lebron's ball-dominance).. Furthermore, Pippen had the lowest advanced stats ever for a winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, WS/48, BPM, VORP), so you can't complain about 14' Wade, who had higher PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring in the 14' Playoffs.. Wade was infact equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the ECF where he averaged 20/5/5 on 48%, while Pippen never got within 10 ppg of MJ in any series..

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:27 PM

Lebron's super-teams are the on-paper/preseason favorite every year (2011-2016), but fall to underdog as the season progress while another team becomes the juggernaut and ends up the Finals favorite (Spurs, Warriors).

So the historical record is that Lebron's has the on-paper/preseason favorite status (talent advantage), and therefore cedes this favorite status due to brand of ball (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic, Suns), aka Lebron's inferior brand of ball causes his lower team ceilings/FInals records/weaker teams than other greats.

Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat:

2014 Wade Playoffs...... 18.5 PER.. 0.086 WS/48.. 28.6 pts per 100.. 106 ortg
1993 Pippen Playoffs'.... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 26.2 pts per 100.. 102 ortg

Jordan three-peated because he averaged 41 in the Finals, while Lebron averaged 13 less than MJ so he lost to the Spurs by 13 ppg - Lebron needed 41 to win like Jordan but failed and lost by record amount.. Btw, both the Bulls/Suns averaged exactly 106.7 ppg in the 93' Finals, so all of Jordan's points were needed.

And you can't complain about Lebron's 2014 cast because the Heat were defending champs with 4 HOF - so Bosh could've stepped up but brand of ball reduced him to spot-up shooter (Lebron's ball-dominance).. Furthermore, Pippen had the lowest advanced stats ever for a winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, WS/48, BPM, VORP), so you can't complain about 14' Wade, who had higher PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring in the 14' Playoffs.. Wade was infact equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the ECF where he averaged 20/5/5 on 48%, while Pippen never got within 10 ppg of MJ in any series..

https://c.tenor.com/NvIynqDNxLcAAAAC/twerk-girls-twerking.gif

1 and....

3ba11

11-13-2021, 02:30 PM

https://c.tenor.com/NvIynqDNxLcAAAAC/twerk-girls-twerking.gif

1 and....

Imagine having the 2011-2016 preseason favorite (talent favorite) but once the games start, a weak brand reduces the team to underdog and another team becomes the favorite.. Then you cry for more help... rinse repeat every year

carry on

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:31 PM

Imagine having the talent/preseason favorite but once the games start, a weak brand reduces the team to underdog and another team becomes the favorite.. Then you cry for more help... rinse repeat every year

carry on

https://c.tenor.com/wzzCZQv5cyAAAAAd/twerk-twerking.gif

1 and?

RRR3

11-13-2021, 02:32 PM

https://c.tenor.com/NvIynqDNxLcAAAAC/twerk-girls-twerking.gif

1 and....
Stop even giving him basketball phrases. Just post about different subjects. J Lo or Shakira?

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:34 PM

Stop even giving him basketball phrases. Just post about different subjects. J Lo or Shakira?

Neither of those two....

Doesn't matter. I asked him if he liked Pizza or Tacos a few pages back. He defaulted to a 'Lebron equal scoring partner' copy and paste.

RRR3

11-13-2021, 02:36 PM

Neither of those two....

Doesn't matter. I asked him if he liked Pizza or Tacos a few pages back. He defaulted to a 'Lebron equal scoring partner' copy and paste.
Yeah but it’s funny seeing him respond like a lunatic. Everyone laughs at him then. The answer is always J Lo. Shakira is hot tho.

Phoenix

11-13-2021, 02:39 PM

Yeah but it’s funny seeing him respond like a lunatic. Everyone laughs at him then. The answer is always J Lo. Shakira is hot tho.

Truth be told I'm worse because I know better than to engage but if the mods want a shit forum.....so be it.

RRR3

11-13-2021, 02:43 PM

Truth be told I'm worse because I know better than to engage but if the mods want a shit forum.....so be it.
Can you imagine seeing 3ball’s live reaction to LeBron winning a ring in 2020 though? My god :lol

SouBeachTalents

11-13-2021, 02:51 PM

Can you imagine seeing 3ball’s live reaction to LeBron winning a ring in 2020 though? My god :lol
I would’ve paid good money to see 3ball, stalker, and the other fanatical haters down the stretch of the 4th quarter of Game 7 in 2016. To see how fcking nervous they would’ve been, praying that the Warriors made a basket every possession in the last 5 minutes, followed by the complete horror as their worst possible scenario came true at the buzzer :lol

RRR3

11-13-2021, 02:56 PM

I would’ve paid good money to see 3ball, stalker, and the other fanatical haters down the stretch of the 4th quarter of Game 7 in 2016. To see how fcking nervous they would’ve been, praying that the Warriors made a basket every possession in the last 5 minutes, followed by the complete horror as their worst possible scenario came true at the buzzer :lol
Same but 2020 hurt 3ball the most though imo. He’s gone completely insane since then.