Jordan won a ring averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists on 43% FG

[Pip' N Rodman]

Those are some of the worst stats I've ever seen lol...

[SATAN]

Those are Rex Chapman numbers

[2much_knowledge]

Which led to a 2nd three peat, and your man crush doesn't have one yet lol

How long till the first one?

[Jasper]

hears what not a yuppie ish poster says about MJ - this is what players that played against him said about him -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmX06WTrdhw

/

[2much_knowledge]

hears what not a yuppie ish poster says about MJ - this is what players that played against him said about him -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmX06WTrdhw

/

Disclaimer: these strong images may cause nausea, depression, disbelief and lost of sense of porpuse. If you are a lebron cheerleader, i strongly advise not watching this video

Watch at your own risk

[3ba11]

elite scoring can only be done by stars, while elite assists and rebounding can be done by role players and half the league.

[HunterSThompson]

i'd say 96 and 98 were less than average titles for jordan but he has 4 others to work with


its not like theres any major asterisks like with lebrons titles


does OP need me to list them? i'l wait for his response

[TheCorporation]

Most pitiful FMVP ever

[3ba11]

Most pitiful FMVP ever


* Record carry-job (sidekick averaged 15 on 41%) so maximum defensive attention on Jordan

* Record burden (38.3% of team points), so maximum defensive attention on Jordan

* Record clutch points (30 points in the last 5 within 5), so maximum defensive attention on Jordan

* Record offense and defense

* Record closing (steal and bucket to win series)

[Axe]

Role player numbers

[TheCorporation]

i'd say 96 and 98 were less than average titles for jordan but he has 4 others to work with


its not like theres any major asterisks like with lebrons titles


does OP need me to list them? i'l wait for his response

https://i.postimg.cc/rwC464vj/Ken-Griffin-Fred-Durst.jpg

[TheCorporation]

* Record carry-job (sidekick averaged 15 on 41%) and 3rd best player didn't start (rodman)

* Record burden (38.3% of team points)

* Record clutch points (30 points in the last 5 within 5)

* Record offense and defense

* Record closing (steal and bucket to win series)

1998 Finals
#2 option on Jazz
10.7 ppg Jeff Hornacek

Lowest ppg for #2 option in FINALS HISTORY

Next

[3ba11]

1998 Finals
#2 option on Jazz
10.7 ppg Jeff Hornacek

Lowest ppg for #2 option in FINALS HISTORY

Next


* Record carry-job (sidekick averaged 15 on 41%), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record burden (38.3% of team points), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record clutch points (30 points in the last 5 within 5), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record offense and defense

* Record closing (steal and bucket to win series)

[TheCorporation]

* Record carry-job (sidekick averaged 15 on 41%), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record burden (38.3% of team points), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record clutch points (30 points in the last 5 within 5), equals record defensive attention on Jordan

* Record offense and defense

* Record closing (steal and bucket to win series)

Against?

[Axe]

Kobe scored less in the 2000 finals than pippen did in the 1991 finals.

[Axe]

Against?
Plumbers, mechanics, janitors, etc.

[TheCorporation]

Plumbers, mechanics, janitors, etc.

Bingo

:dancin

[3ba11]

Against?


Everyone else in history had equal-scoring teammates (1b's) to attract equal defensive attention, whereas Jordan averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every series, thus attracting 1-man team defensive attention - that's why he's goat - he has 6 chips like Dirk, Hakeem or Kawhi's, where he averages 10+ more than his sidekick in playoffs and Finals (faces maximum defensive attention, aka carry-job)

[3ba11]

Everyone else in history had equal-scoring teammates (1b's) to attract equal defensive attention, whereas Jordan averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every series, thus attracting 1-man team defensive attention - that's why he's goat - he has 6 chips like Dirk, Hakeem or Kawhi's, where he averages 10+ more than his sidekick in playoffs and Finals (faces maximum defensive attention, aka carry-job)


https://c.tenor.com/zdFtiktD6-wAAAAC/accomplished-job.gif

[TheCorporation]

Everyone else in history had equal-scoring teammates (1b's) to attract equal defensive attention, whereas Jordan averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every series, thus attracting 1-man team defensive attention - that's why he's goat - he has 6 chips like Dirk, Hakeem or Kawhi's, where he averages 10+ more than his sidekick in playoffs and Finals (faces maximum defensive attention, aka carry-job)

Against?

[3ba11]

Against?


Against superior talent - the Pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot and were like the dynasty Warriors - that's what Jordan overcame with no all-stars in 1991 - Pistons were a historic dynasty that Jordan overcame with nothing... Jordan also swept Shaq/Penny

And Jordan beat 2 Finals teams that had more all-stars (Suns and Sonics had 3 all-stars), while the 91' Lakers and 92' Blazers had better-ranked defenses and more scoring options (aka many more good players)

And Jordan won many series while Pippen was outplayed by the opposing 2nd leading scorer like the 96' Finals or 96' ECF, 98' ECF, 92' ECSF, 93 1st Round, 97' Finals, and many more like the 89' 1st Round versus the #1 SRS team that MJ beat with a low seed (historic upset)... And another upset in the 89' 2nd Round vs New York (all-stars Ewing and Mark Jackson)...

The historic run in 1989 turned the Bulls from a lottery team into contenders, which is why the Bulls won just a couple years later (should've been 1 year later but Pippen's "migraine" lost it - and we know it wasn't really a migraine, just another one of Pippen's lies)

[2much_knowledge]

2nd three peat... compared to cero of course

Greatest finals sequence ever. The steal to the team captain and the shot, game over. On their home floor

Just imagine how much you idiots would be jumping around doing cartwheels if lebron after the iggy block, wwould have made that shot instead of kyrie....

Thats what Jordan did. Case closed /////// thread

[TheGoatest]

Come on now. Don't be too hard on Jordan. It's not like he was averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists while playing 42 minutes per game or something...

[2much_knowledge]

Seems to me all those extra assist , rebounds and allstar teammates aren't buying lebron no three peats lolololololololololololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol

Lol

[ImKobe]

Lebron won multiple championships averaging just 26 ppg and only averaged 28+ ppg in 1 of his 4 title runs.


2nd three peat... compared to cero of course

Greatest finals sequence ever. The steal to the team captain and the shot, game over. On their home floor

Just imagine how much you idiots would be jumping around doing cartwheels if lebron after the iggy block, wwould have made that shot instead of kyrie....

Thats what Jordan did. Case closed /////// thread

Not only that, but he scored 16 points in that 4th quarter and he didn't even play the entire 4th and still almost outscored the Jazz by himself. The rest of the Bulls only scored 20 pts in the 2nd half to MJ's 22. MJ scored 53 4th quarter points in 5 games (didn't play one of the 4th quarters in a blowout win). That's over 10 ppg at age 35 after not missing a single game for 3 straight years, and he led the POs in minutes that year as well.

[3ba11]

Come on now. Don't be too hard on Jordan. It's not like he was averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists while playing 42 minutes per game or something...


Thread Cliffs


Jordan won with 4 rebs and 2 assists by attracting maximum defensive attention

because his sidekick attracted no defensive attention (15.7 on 41%)

thus forcing MJ to score a record percentage of team points in the face of maximum defensive coverage (1-man team defensive coverage).

[GimmeThat]

Thread Cliffs


Jordan won with 4 rebs and 2 assists by attracting maximum defensive attention

because his sidekick attracted no defensive attention (15.7 on 41%)

thus forcing MJ to score a record percentage of team points in the face of maximum defensive coverage (1-man team defensive coverage).

by your grammar, you're saying it's the offensive players job to gain defensive attention, and not the defense players' job to give defensive attention to begin with.

[ELITEpower23]

Thread Cliffs


Jordan won with 4 rebs and 2 assists by attracting maximum defensive attention

because his sidekick attracted no defensive attention (15.7 on 41%)

thus forcing MJ to score a record percentage of team points in the face of maximum defensive coverage (1-man team defensive coverage).

Against?

[3ba11]

Against?


Against the team that beat the most talent ever to make a Finals, including Popovich/Duncan/Robinson, Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Hakeem's Rockets

Now what's the best comp that Lebron's Finals opponent's beat to make the Finals - it doesn't come anywhere near what the Jazz had to go through

The 11' Mavs maybe compare but they were a 1-star team and nowhere near as good as the 2-HOF Jazz

[zeerghit]

assists is missleading in today nba they giving assist way to easy

[3ba11]

assists is missleading in today nba they giving assist way to easy


It's more important to have high TEAM assists and therefore higher brand of ball/team ceiling, which can only happen if the #1 option is capable of scoring a lot while the ball moves (elite jumpshooting skill required)..

Accordingly, spotty-shooting ball-dominators need not apply for the high team ceiling/Finals record position

[zeerghit]

It's more important to have high TEAM assists and therefore higher brand of ball/team ceiling, which can only happen if the #1 option is capable of scoring a lot while the ball moves (elite jumpshooting skill required)..

Accordingly, spotty-shooting ball-dominators need not apply for the high team ceiling/Finals record position

1-9

[3ba11]

1-9


2004 Cavs.... 0 all-stars
2005 Cavs.... 2 all-stars
2006 Cavs.... added a 22/5/5 acquisition and the future COY


^^^ that's a lot of improvement over 3 years

Lebron was lottery in 04' and 05', which gave him 3 seasons to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the playoffs for the first time in 2006.. Otoh, Jordan didn't get any time to develop his teams - his teams were thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as 8 seeds, and therefore underperformed Lebron's veteran high seeds early on.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop the Bulls (1988), he made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron....

The difference is that Jordan was carrying rookie low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning.




1-9


It's coincidence that the only time MJ didn't have Pippen were his first few years, when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery in their first few years.. So people weaponize this coincidence, but once MJ had 3 healthy years to develop his team (88'), he made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron.. The difference is that Jordan was carrying a rookie low seed in a conference that required a super-team to win, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (iverson, dwight, kidd).




1-9


In 2005, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes made the 2nd Round, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 2006. So Lebron almost always had better casts than his Eastern opponents.. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', or 19', and therefore only had high seeds/good teams in the playoffs.. So he never carried "bums" or low seeds in the playoffs like MJ or other stars did because he never carried lottery casts to low seeds like they did - Lebron infact got 3 years to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 and forced to carry 8 seeds..




1-9


If MJ's Bulls had an extra perennial all-star teammate like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), or a perennial all-star to play 3rd option like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), then he would beat any team in history... But MJ only had 1 all-star teammate who never achieved elite 1st option stats (low-producer) and averaged 10-30 less in every series.. So MJ didn't even have an equal-producer at 2nd option like Lebron had with 11' Wade or 20' AD, let alone a 3rd option star (super-team).. Btw, Kyrie's career averages in the Finals are 28 on 47% just like Lebron's, and he outplayed the league MVP, so 16' Kyrie was an equal-producer just like 11' Wade and 20' AD.. Otoh, Pippen's Finals averages are 19 on 42%, so he was nowhere near Jordan's 34 on 48% with more apg..

Accordingly, Jordan lacked the equal-scoring partners that Lebron had, which matters because equal-scoring partners attact equal defensive attention - so only Jordan faced 1-man team defensive coverage for his entire career.. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[zeerghit]

2004 Cavs.... 0 all-stars
2005 Cavs.... 2 all-stars
2006 Cavs.... added a 22/5/5 acquisition and the future COY


^^^ that's a lot of improvement over 3 years

Lebron was lottery in 04' and 05', which gave him 3 seasons to develop his team into a favored high seed before entering the playoffs for the first time in 2006.. Otoh, Jordan didn't get any time to develop his teams - his teams were thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as 8 seeds, and therefore underperformed Lebron's veteran high seeds early on.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop the Bulls (1988), he made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron....

The difference is that Jordan was carrying rookie low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning.





It's coincidence that the only time MJ didn't have Pippen were his first few years, when nearly EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry were lottery in their first few years.. So people weaponize this coincidence, but once MJ had 3 healthy years to develop his team (88'), he made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron.. The difference is that Jordan was carrying a rookie low seed in a conference that required a super-team to win, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (iverson, dwight, kidd).





If MJ's Bulls had an extra perennial all-star teammate like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), or a perennial all-star to play 3rd option like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), then he would beat any team in history... But MJ only had 1 all-star teammate who never achieved elite 1st option stats (low-producer) and averaged 10-30 less in every series.. So MJ didn't even have an equal-producer at 2nd option like Lebron had with 11' Wade or 20' AD, let alone a 3rd option star (super-team).. Btw, Kyrie's career averages in the FInals are 28 on 47% just like Lebron's, and he outplayed the league MVP, so 16' Kyrie was an equal-producer just like 11' Wade and 20' AD.. Otoh, Pippen's Finals averages are 19 on 42%, so he was nowhere near Jordan's 34 on 48% with more apg..

Accordingly, Jordan lacked the equal-scoring partners that Lebron had, which matters because equal-scoring partners attact equal defensive attention - so only Jordan faced 1-man team defensive coverage for his entire career.. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

im not reading that garbage

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe scored less in the 2000 finals than pippen did in the 1991 finals.

and if he scores like 4 or 6 points less they lose the series

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe scored less in the 2000 finals than pippen did in the 1991 finals.

:roll:

[2much_knowledge]

Seems to me all those extra assist , rebounds and allstar teammates aren't buying lebron no three peats lolololololololololololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol lololololol

Lol

Anyone?

[ELITEpower23]

Weakest FMVP of all time :oldlol: That's like Cedric Maxwell level weak

[2much_knowledge]

hears what not a yuppie ish poster says about MJ - this is what players that played against him said about him -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmX06WTrdhw

/

Did anyone watched this video? Are you guys alive? Im concerned

[Phoenix]

and if he scores like 4 or 6 points less they lose the series

Game 1 was won by 17 with Kobe scoring 14. You could have Thanos snapped his production out of existence and the Lakers still win. Game 2 Kobe scored 2 points and the Lakers win by 7 with Rice and Harper going off for 21 each. In game 5 Kobe goes 4 for 20, meanwhile Shaq goes 17 for 27, and the other Laker starters Rice, Harper and Green go 9 for 20. Some shot reallocation from the guy going 4 for 20 may have given the Lakers a better shot, methinks.

[Hey Yo]

Nobody counts MJ 's "I need rest" rings.

[3ba11]

It's more important to have high TEAM assists and therefore higher brand of ball/team ceiling, which can only happen if the #1 option is capable of scoring a lot while the ball moves (elite jumpshooting skill required)..

Accordingly, spotty-shooting ball-dominators need not apply for the high team ceiling/Finals record position


^^^ Remember, this is the post that triggered (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499170-Jordan-won-a-ring-averaging-4-rebounds-and-2-assists-on-43-FG&p=14474574&viewfull=1#post14474574) zeerghit

[Pip' N Rodman]

Thread Cliffs:

2017 LeBron vs 1998 Jordan

34 ppg = 34 ppg

12 rebounds > 4 rebounds

10 assists > 2 assists

53% FG > 43% FG



:confusedshrug::confusedshrug::confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

Thread Cliffs:

2017 LeBron vs 1998 Jordan

34 ppg = 34 ppg

12 rebounds > 4 rebounds

10 assists > 2 assists

53% FG > 43% FG



:confusedshrug::confusedshrug::confusedshrug:


2017 Finals.... 115 DRTG.... 100 Pace... 30 ppg sidekick to take defensive attention away (shared load)
1998 Finals.... 105 DRTG...... 82 Pace... 15 ppg sidekick to put all defensive attention on MJ (carry-job)

[Pip' N Rodman]

2017 Finals.... 115 DRTG.... 100 Pace... 30 ppg sidekick to take defensive attention away (shared load)
1998 Finals.... 105 DRTG...... 82 Pace... 15 ppg sidekick to put all defensive attention on MJ (carry-job)

But MJs team won while LeBrons team lost, so that proves MJ had more help

[GimmeThat]

2017 Finals.... 115 DRTG.... 100 Pace... 30 ppg sidekick to take defensive attention away (shared load)
1998 Finals.... 105 DRTG...... 82 Pace... 15 ppg sidekick to put all defensive attention on MJ (carry-job)


It's more important to have high TEAM assists and therefore higher brand of ball/team ceiling, which can only happen if the #1 option is capable of scoring a lot while the ball moves (elite jumpshooting skill required)..

Accordingly, spotty-shooting ball-dominators need not apply for the high team ceiling/Finals record position

what happened?

[3ba11]

what happened?


Lebron's 2017 Cavs were massively out-assisted by the Warriors, just like Lebron's previous Finals losses.

The common thread in Lebron's Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists

Unfortunately, Lebron fields low assist teams because his 2-point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than traditional 1-PG lineups, which yielded low TEAM assists and a brand that has lower team ceilings/Finals records.

[GimmeThat]

Lebron's 2017 Cavs were massively out-assisted by the Warriors, just like Lebron's previous Finals losses.

The common thread in Lebron's Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists

Unfortunately, Lebron fields low assist teams because his 2-point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than traditional 1-PG lineups, which yielded low TEAM assists and a brand that has lower team ceilings/Finals records.

so you're saying Jordan was the PG (with 2 assists), or was Scottie the PG on the Bulls team. or is it no PG but with a #1 scoring option and high team assists the best brand of basketball. because I'm not very sure what USG% means now.

[ELITEpower23]

Nobody counts MJ 's "I need rest" rings.

+1

Anyone can win with 2 years rest

[Pip' N Rodman]

yikes

[SaintzFury13]

its not like theres any major asterisks like with lebrons titles

There isn't. Only a retard who spends his free time pretending to be a dead NBA player would think that.

[Axe]

But MJs team won while LeBrons team lost, so that proves MJ had more help
Yet boobie gibson, antawn jamison, kyrie irving, kevin love and mo williams are all better players and rank above scottie pippen according to him.