Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #46

[dankok8]

List

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - Oscar Robertson
#14 - Jerry West
#15 - Moses Malone
#16 - Julius Erving
#17 - Kevin Durant
#18 - Kevin Garnett
#19 - Karl Malone
#20 - Dirk Nowitzki
#21 - Charles Barkley
#22 - David Robinson
#23 - Dwyane Wade
#24 - Elgin Baylor
#25 - Scottie Pippen
#26 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
#27 - John Havlicek
#28 - Isiah Thomas
#29 - Bob Pettit
#30 - Chris Paul
#31 - Kawhi Leonard
#32 - Rick Barry
#33 - James Harden
#34 - Patrick Ewing
#35 - Bob Cousy
#36 - John Stockton
#37 - Jason Kidd
#38 - Steve Nash
#39 - Willis Reed
#40 - Walt Frazier
#41 - Allen Iverson
#42 - Clyde Drexler
#43 - Russell Westbrook
#44 - Kevin McHale
#45 - Elvin Hayes
#46 - VOTING NOW

Top 50 Player Pool

For an updated player pool and vote breakdowns see the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing).

Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.

Opening Vote Tally

Bill Walton - 2 (colts19, Round Mound)
George Gervin - 2 (Honor Boost, ELITEpower23)
Dave Cowens - 1 (fsvr54)
Ray Allen - 1 (Manny98)
Gary Payton - 1 (Naero)

[dankok8]

Some people mentioned the Iceman. I think he's a great choice. Definitely gets overlooked a lot but this is a guy who is arguably one of the 10 best scorers ever and led some average Spurs teams to some decent results. They made a bunch of WCF's and lost to Sonics or Lakers. I vote Gervin.

[RRR3]

Gary Payton.

[Phoenix]

If we considering Iceman at this stage when's Human Highlight getting some love?

Gonna think on this one for a bit. Right now I got Payton, Gervin and Dwight Howard rattling around in my head.

[RRR3]

If we considering Iceman at this stage when's Human Highlight getting some love?

Gonna think on this one for a bit. Right now I got Payton, Gervin and Dwight Howard rattling around in my head.
I mean Gervin was clearly better at scoring and that’s Dominuqe’s best asset

[Phoenix]

I mean Gervin was clearly better at scoring and that’s Dominuqe’s best asset

I'm moreso asking if Nique is somewhere around the corner, not making a case of him over Iceman.

[RRR3]

I'm moreso asking if Nique is somewhere around the corner, not making a case of him over Iceman.
Nah he isn’t top 50 at this point.

[L.Kizzle]

Kevin McHale just got in, so why not James Worthy in this spot?

[RRR3]

Kevin McHale just got in, so why not James Worthy in this spot?
Meltdown.

[L.Kizzle]

Meltdown.
I mean why not?

[Ryoka Narusawa]

Iceman George Gerbin

[000]

Anthony Davis

[1987_Lakers]

Said in the previous thread I was stuck between GP and Gervin. But I'll go Gervin for now.

[ELITEpower23]

Anthony Davis

Can we ban this 3ball alt already? :oldlol:

[000]

Can we ban this 3ball alt already? :oldlol:
^ moron

[fsvr54]

Paul Pierce

[dankok8]

AD isn't a bad top 50 candidate at all. I've been pondering about his case quite a bit. I generally tend to give retired players the benefit of the doubt over active players but he has a strong case. AD has 5-6 prime years vs 1.5 years for Bill Walton for instance. And AD is simply a better player than Dave Cowens. We'll see what the community thinks about AD but if Giannis got the #26 spot it feels like AD should be top 50. Then again I would have never put Giannis at #26... :lol

[L.Kizzle]

AD isn't a bad top 50 candidate at all. I've been pondering about his case quite a bit. I generally tend to give retired players the benefit of the doubt over active players but he has a strong case. AD has 5-6 prime years vs 1.5 years for Bill Walton for instance. And AD is simply a better player than Dave Cowens. We'll see what the community thinks about AD but if Giannis got the #26 spot it feels like AD should be top 50. Then again I would have never put Giannis at #26... :lol
Giannis has 2 MVP and was the man on a championship team.
AD only made it out the first round once (the championship season.)

[L.Kizzle]

James Worthy is my vote.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

AD isn't a bad top 50 candidate at all. I've been pondering about his case quite a bit. I generally tend to give retired players the benefit of the doubt over active players but he has a strong case. AD has 5-6 prime years vs 1.5 years for Bill Walton for instance. And AD is simply a better player than Dave Cowens. We'll see what the community thinks about AD but if Giannis got the #26 spot it feels like AD should be top 50. Then again I would have never put Giannis at #26... :lol

Giannis making it over kawhi is a joke.

Kawhi destroyed giannis head to head in 2019 and back door swept him while also defending him. Kawhi's 2019 run was also much more impressive because he didn't take time off like giannis did, there's no way Raptors win a west finals game without kawhi like bucks did without giannis.

And then you add in kawhi's better longevity with his 2014 finals mvp and it's not even close.

[SouBeachTalents]

My vote is for Payton

9x All-NBA
9x All-Defense 1st Team
8 top 10 MVP finishes
DPOY
Averaged 21/5/8 on 54%TS over a 9 year period

I think he has the best argument for this spot over any other player remaining

[LBJ]

Bill Walton

[Lebron_James]

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-24/Injuries-follow-Bill-Walton-s-career-but-can-t-eclipse-his-greatness-QL9LIPXk3u/img/9432e5d7d0104363b95adf08dfd75bca/9432e5d7d0104363b95adf08dfd75bca.jpeg

Bill Walton

[RRR3]

Lmao at the Walton votes. Jokic is higher all time and I don't see any votes for him.

[Go Getter]

Bill Walton


Lmao at the Walton votes. Jokic is higher all time and I don't see any votes for him.


Bill Walton peak is top 10 all time, unfortunately, it was just too short. That is why I put him in the 30-50 range.Else he was much higher.
Jokic peak is nowhere near top 10 all time.

[ELITEpower23]

Bill Walton




Bill Walton peak is top 10 all time, unfortunately, it was just too short. That is why I put him in the 30-50 range.Else he was much higher.
Jokic peak is nowhere near top 10 all time.

Walton's peak is top 10 all time? His playoff PPG peak was 18. His regular season PPG peak was 18.9...Stop it

[colts19]

Bill Walton




Bill Walton peak is top 10 all time, unfortunately, it was just too short. That is why I put him in the 30-50 range.Else he was much higher.
Jokic peak is nowhere near top 10 all time.

I have to agree with this post and that is how I look at it also. There are no other players at this point that could actually make a team a championship team like Bill could. The 1986 Celtics were considered the greatest team of all time and without Bill they were very good, but Bill made them legendary. Bird even said so himself.

[ELITEpower23]

I have to agree with this post and that is how I look at it also. There are no other players at this point that could actually make a team a championship team like Bill could. The 1986 Celtics were considered the greatest team of all time and without Bill they were very good, but Bill made them legendary. Bird even said so himself.

Walton's career highs:

Points: 28
PPG for a series: 19.3

Not a chance he is top 10 all time peak :oldlol: Old heads are funny af

[fsvr54]

Basketball is about WAY more than scoring

[SouBeachTalents]

Bill Walton had an ATG peak, but it was NOT top 10 all time :oldlol: Y’all are trippin

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Walton's peak is top 10 all time? His playoff PPG peak was 18. His regular season PPG peak was 18.9...Stop it

From 2004-2016 Tim Duncan only averaged 19PPG.

That's 75% of his career.

[ELITEpower23]

From 2004-2016 Tim Duncan only averaged 19PPG.

That's 75% of his career.

:oldlol:

Seasons above 19.0. ppg
Duncan: 11
Walton: 0

Playoff runs above 19.0 ppg
Duncan: 12
Walton: 0

You done my guy? :oldlol: LITE WORK

[1987_Lakers]

Walton had an insane peak, but top 50 for him seems a bit excessive.

[SouBeachTalents]

Walton had an insane peak, but top 50 for him seems a bit excessive.
It's ridiculous, dude barely put together 2 prime seasons. It'd be an insult to guys who were elite for 7-10 years to include Walton over them.

[1987_Lakers]

Kevin McHale just got in, so why not James Worthy in this spot?

Lol, you still seem shaken up by McHale being voted ahead of Hayes. You voted for Cowens in the #44 spot before you changed your vote to Hayes, I get it, I changed my vote as well, I may be wrong, but it seems like you are throwing a hissy fit by voting Worthy considering you trashed McHale for his lack of individual awards when Worthy himself has less accolades and his prime didn't last very long.

[Airupthere]

My next vote after this round goes to ray allen. For now, I vote for the Iceman.

[L.Kizzle]

Lol, you still seem shaken up by McHale being voted ahead of Hayes. You voted for Cowens in the #44 spot before you changed your vote to Hayes, I get it, I changed my vote as well, I may be wrong, but it seems like you are throwing a hissy fit by voting Worthy considering you trashed McHale for his lack of individual awards when Worthy himself has less accolades and his prime didn't last very long.
No hissy fit, it's all good man. I enjoy the banter of players not named Jordan, Kobe or LeBron.

But yes, Worthy is a real vote. If McHale can get in with a small amount of accolades, got dammit Worthy should be right behind him, lol.

[1987_Lakers]

To close out the top 50, I think my list would look something like this...

46. Gervin
47. Payton
48. Pierce
49. A. Gilmore
50. R. Allen

[SouBeachTalents]

I think Payton, Nique & Gervin should absolutely make it. The last 2 spots are difficult. Y'all think it's too early for guys like AD or Jokic?

[L.Kizzle]

To close out the top 50, I think my list would look something like this...

46. Gervin
47. Payton
48. Pierce
49. A. Gilmore
50. R. Allen
Artis Gilmore? Over other centers like Wes, Cowens, McAdoo and even Bob Lanier or Dwight?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

:oldlol:

Seasons above 19.0. ppg
Duncan: 11
Walton: 0

Playoff runs above 19.0 ppg
Duncan: 12
Walton: 0

You done my guy? :oldlol: LITE WORK

75% is the majority. Duncan for the majority of his career (04-16) only averaged 19PPG in the playoffs

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lmao at the Walton votes. Jokic is higher all time and I don't see any votes for him.

Because his only deep playoff run he was Murray's sidekick and even then he only won 1 conference finals game.

[1987_Lakers]

Artis Gilmore? Over other centers like Wes, Cowens, McAdoo and even Bob Lanier or Dwight?

Yup.

- ABA MVP as a rookie in '72
- ABA champion in '75
- Dominant defender in his younger days
- 11x All-Star
- Excellent longevity (double-double guy well into his mid 30')

If we are going to take into account Dr. J's ABA days then we should do that same for Gilmore. He's probably the 2nd greatest ABA player ever and I feel he was a more complete player than Wes & Cowens, McAdoo played no defense and had a short prime. I would probably vote Dwight over Artis if his prime was longer.

[francesco totti]

I'll drive the wave, and go with Bill Walton.
It's a difficult choice from here on.

[L.Kizzle]

Yup.

- ABA MVP as a rookie in '72
- ABA champion in '75
- Dominant defender in his younger days
- 11x All-Star
- Excellent longevity (double-double guy well into his mid 30')

If we are going to take into account Dr. J's ABA days then we should do that same for Gilmore. He's probably the 2nd greatest ABA player ever and I feel he was a more complete player than Wes & Cowens, McAdoo played no defense and a short prime. I would probably vote Dwight over Artis if his prime was longer.
I wasn't sure we're counting ABA careers? If so I can see that spot, if not I can't see him over any of those centers listed.

[dankok8]

Alright our two clear finalists are Walton and Gervin both tied with 6 votes. Let's vote for one of these two!

[1987_Lakers]

I wasn't sure we're counting ABA careers? If so I can see that spot, if not I can't see him over any of those centers listed.

I would agree Artis doesn't make top 50 if we ignore ABA, but ISH voted Dr. J at the #16 spot, is Dr.J really a top 16 player ever if we are just going by NBA? Don't think so, he only had around 4 elite seasons in the NBA.

[SouBeachTalents]

Gervin. Surprised he has 6 votes and Nique has 0

[RRR3]

It's obviously Gervin, Walton is ranked right around wherever Luka Doncic is :oldlol:

Two superstar seasons aren't worth much to me, sorry.

[1987_Lakers]

Yup.

- ABA MVP as a rookie in '72
- ABA champion in '75
- Dominant defender in his younger days
- 11x All-Star
- Excellent longevity (double-double guy well into his mid 30')

If we are going to take into account Dr. J's ABA days then we should do that same for Gilmore. He's probably the 2nd greatest ABA player ever and I feel he was a more complete player than Wes & Cowens, McAdoo played no defense and had a short prime. I would probably vote Dwight over Artis if his prime was longer.

Also has a nice poster over Kareem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1GJ5wxyTc

[dankok8]

We do count the ABA although I personally think of the ABA as a clearly lesser league. Still someone like Dr J and Gilmore can get a boost from their ABA years. Artis Gilmore was a 7'2'' tower of a man. Strong as an ox... several former players who saw or played against Wilt and Shaq like Robert Parish said Gilmore was the strongest player ever.

[L.Kizzle]

I would agree Artis doesn't make it if we ignore ABA, but ISH voted Dr. J at the #16 spot, is Dr.J really a top 16 player ever if we are just going by NBA? Don't think so, he only had around 4 elite seasons in the NBA.
He is. He was an instant star in the NBA. Made 3 Finals his first six seasons in the league to go along with a MVP aware. To go along with being the face of the league. Definitely a top 15 player of All-Time. I mean Oscar Robertson gets ranked higher with better numbers but less team success before joining Kareem (same as Moses joining Doc.)

[Nike D'Antoni]

Bill Walton is ranked 48 per ESPN ( https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105574/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-74-41). But on RealGM 100 ( then RealGM has Garnett over Kobe & Durant & Curry, Lebron over Jordan, and many screw-ups).

I think Mcgrady deserves a shot at the top 50 too, at least discussion and might not make it.

Voting Bill Walton for now.

But don't mind if Gervin, Dominique Wilkins, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Wes Unseld, Mcgrady, and Paul Pierce wrap up the top 50.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Also Pau Gasol? Deserves mention too.And might not make it

[L.Kizzle]

Alright our two clear finalists are Walton and Gervin both tied with 6 votes. Let's vote for one of these two!
Gervin.

[DevBooker'sMask]

Fine its Gervin, vote for the next spot

[DevBooker'sMask]

Bill Walton is ranked 48 per ESPN ( https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105574/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-74-41). But on RealGM 100 ( then RealGM has Garnett over Kobe & Durant & Curry, Lebron over Jordan, and many screw-ups).

I think Mcgrady deserves a shot at the top 50 too, at least discussion and might not make it.

Voting Bill Walton for now.

But don't mind if Gervin, Dominique Wilkins, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Wes Unseld, Mcgrady, and Paul Pierce wrap up the top 50.

Garnett over Kobe is the biggest screw up if you ask Book

[gonzaldo]

Gervin, a good player on a good time for a long time.

[dankok8]

Final Vote Tally

George Gervin - 10 (Honor Boost, ELITEpower23, dankok8, Ryoka Narusawa, 1987_Lakers, Airupthere, SouBeachTalents, L. Kizzle, DevBooker'sMask, gonzaldo)
Bill Walton - 7 (colts19, Round Mound, LBJ, Lebron_James, Go Getter, francesco totti, NIke D'Antoni)
Gary Payton - 2 (Naero, RRR3)
Paul Pierce - 1 (fsvr54)
Ray Allen - 1 (Manny98)
Anthony Davis - 1 (000)

Iceman wins.