Reggie basically beat the 98' Bulls, so how would he lose to Bulls w/out MJ in 94'?

[3ba11]

.
Remember that Reggie proved superior to Pippen by vastly outperforming Pippen against the same playoff comp 6 times, including those 94' Knicks:



R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage


So the idea that the 94' Bulls would've beaten the Pacers in the ECF is ridiculous and the entire premise that the Bulls should've beaten the Knicks and faced the Pacers is wrong because Pippen did infact hack the shit out of Hubert Davis:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/W44XtX.gif


So the media misreports everything:



* the misreporting of the Hubert Davis foul

* the Hubert Davis misreporting causes them to say the Bulls should've beaten the Knicks

* they say the Bulls would've beaten the Pacers too, which is wrong by all accounts (see the thread title and stats above)

* they claim that Pippen passed more than Jordan even though Jordan averaged more APG and assist percentage for the regular season, playoffs and Finals, while also leading the Bulls in APG for 6 of 9 playoff runs and 3 title runs

* they claim that Pippen was the primary defender on Magic in the 91' Finals even though Jordan guarded him most of the series including the critical fourth quarter & OT of Game 3 that swung the series

* they claim that Pippen was the primary defender on the Bulls even though Jordan got more DPOY votes every year and was the primary defender on the opponent's best player (Magic, Drexler, Miller, Payton, Isiah).

[ShawkFactory]

Are we talking about the 94 Bulls beating the 94 Pacers? Or the 98 Pacers?

Or the 98 Bulls without Jordan against the 98 Pacers?

I’m so confused.

[3ba11]

Are we talking about the 94 Bulls beating the 94 Pacers? Or the 98 Pacers?

Or the 98 Bulls without Jordan against the 98 Pacers?

I’m so confused.


Doesn't really matter because Pippen hacked the shit out of Hubert Davis... And Pippen choked Game 7, so the Bulls don't beat the Knicks regardless of the call

Of course, Kukoc's miracle prevented the Bulls from being swept, so it's all a moot point - the main point is how massively misreported it is 30 years later.. it's reported the opposite of the facts, starting with the Hubert Davis call..

[ShawkFactory]

Doesn't really matter because Pippen hacked the shit out of Hubert Davis... And Pippen choked Game 7, so the Bulls don't beat the Knicks regardless of the call

Of course, Kukoc's miracle prevented the Bulls from being swept, so it's all a moot point - the main point is how massively misreported it is 30 years later.. it's reported the opposite of the facts, starting with the Hubert Davis call..

What the fvck is wrong with you dude :lol

[3ba11]

What the fvck is wrong with you dude :lol


You can't refute anything I'm saying, so you say "what's wrong with you"

what's wrong with YOU... you come on a forum and offer zero.. you're garbage.. get off of here.. where's 97' Bulls

[ShawkFactory]

You can't refute anything I'm saying, so you say "what's wrong with you"

what's wrong with YOU... you come on a forum and offer zero.. you're garbage.. get off of here.. where's 97' Bulls

You’ve been doing the same shit for the better part of a decade.

Everything you say has been intricately refuted MANY times.

[3ba11]

You’ve been doing the same shit for the better part of a decade.

Everything you say has been intricately refuted MANY times.


It's the historical record and statistical fact that Jordan carried the least to the most, so there's nothing to refute

I'm just slapping you guys around until you give up, and you do exactly that.

The OP is all stats - there's nothing to refute - Pippen sucked - he only has ring count, which fueled media awards from Joe the Plumbers with journalism degrees - there's no examples of series where he dominated, achieved elite stats or hit a big shot.. ever.. in his whole career.. just a bum that was carried to 6 chips by the GOAT

[ShawkFactory]

If something is “historical record and statistical fact” then why is it impressive on your end to “win” (people not caring to go back and forth with you for hours doesn’t mean you win) arguments?

You’re taking the easy stance. If anything you’re a coward for continuing to argue a factual position.

[3ba11]

If something is “historical record and statistical fact” then why is it impressive on your end to “win” (people not caring to go back and forth with you for hours doesn’t mean you win) arguments?

You’re taking the easy stance. If anything you’re a coward for continuing to argue a factual position.


It's impressive because you guys aren't aware of most of the stats and facts.. You guys thought Pippen was the defender on Magic in the 91' Finals... :yaohappy:


How mainstream, lapdog, no-nothing must you be to think that?... You lap up a story that's been misreported for 30 years, so there's no way you will be aware of the stuff that I say.

I remember when I posted all the stats showing how Lebron reduces his teammates' assists (playmaking) and increases their assisted rate (play-finishing).. you guys weren't aware that there was statistical proof of Lebron turning teammates to play-finishers (literally reducing them)... you also weren't aware of how bad pippen was statistically or that Jordan infact led Lebron in all the production rate categories... there's so many things you guys were unaware of, and now you're just in denial and hanging on to the false narratives that Shannon and NicK Wright put forth, like how Jordan didn't pass, defend or rebound and only scored... Or how Lebron's 1st and 2nd Round teams in 2010 and 2014 fell to lottery, and how that compares to a 3-peat team falling to 2nd round....

and on and on... I could keep going but I'll end the stream of conciousness here

[ShawkFactory]

I’ve watched every single game of the 91 finals other than game 4. Jordan in game 2 is the most majestically played basketball game I’ve ever seen. I remember thinking “this is a true master right now”, or something like that.

I’ve watched Lebrons entire career. I know his game.

You’re talking at a no one.

[SouBeachTalents]

If there’s one person to count on for reliable basketball information, it’s the guy who has Curry, Dirk, Giannis & Kawhi in their top 10

[3ba11]

I’ve watched every single game of the 91 finals other than game 4. Jordan in game 2 is the most majestically played basketball game I’ve ever seen. I remember thinking “this is a true master right now”, or something like that.

I’ve watched Lebrons entire career. I know his game.

You’re talking at a no one.


The Lakers stole home court after the first 2 games (1-1) and were headed home for the next 3 games..

So Game 3 was the game that turned the series - that's the game where Magic and the Lakers' body language looked totally defeated after the game - Jordan shut down Magic for the 4th quarter and OT of that game - Pippen's defense in Game 2 was less important than Jordan's defense in Game 3 and the rest of the series (Jordan guarded Magic for all of Games 4, 5, and 1, except the last 4 minutes of Game 4).

[ShawkFactory]

The Lakers stole home court after the first 2 games (1-1) and were headed home for the next 3 games..

So Game 3 was the game that turned the series - that's the game where Magic and the Lakers' body language looked totally defeated after the game - Jordan shut down Magic for the 4th quarter and OT of that game - Pippen's defense in Game 2 was less important than Jordan's defense in Game 3 and the rest of the series (Jordan guarded Magic for all of Games 4, 5, and 1, except the last 4 minutes of Game 4).

Ok.

[3ba11]

If there’s one person to count on for reliable basketball information, it’s the guy who has Curry, Dirk, Giannis & Kawhi in their top 10


My top 10 is a theoretical ranking of what the list SHOULD be - it should only include guys that know how to win (organic) and guys that can carry teams, which means no super-teams or equal-scoring partners, aka 1b's...

Now can Magic win organically without forcing his way to play with Kareem?... Maybe... But it never happened in real life and that's what my list goes by... He only won with the most help that anyone ever had.

And it turns out that there is actually a correlation - ball-dominators and centers need more help to win than assassin scorers or guys with elite jumpshooting skill, who won with less (due to better teammate fits and better capacity for good strategy, aka ball movement)

[Phoenix]

If there’s one person to count on for reliable basketball information, it’s the guy who has Curry, Dirk, Giannis & Kawhi in their top 10

Two of who were 'overrated bums' like 2 months per 3nutball..

[Phoenix]

Who's having pizza this weekend?

[tpols]

Are we talking about the 94 Bulls beating the 94 Pacers? Or the 98 Pacers?

Or the 98 Bulls without Jordan against the 98 Pacers?

I’m so confused.

I think the point is...



R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage


Against common playoff opponents, Reggie Miller destroys Pippen in his performances and production. And he did it as the 1st option, with no MJ to distract the defense... just Rik Smits. So if Reggie played with Jordan it would have been even more of a wrap. Like some Curry Durant type tandem.

[ShawkFactory]

I think the point is...



Against common playoff opponents, Reggie Miller destroys Pippen in his performances and production. And he did it as the 1st option, with no MJ to distract the defense... just Rik Smits. So if Reggie played with Jordan it would have been even more of a wrap. Like some Curry Durant type tandem.

But that’s not what he said..

And that’s not what the thread title says

I know his ultimate “point” is that Pippen sucked. Trust me, that is not missed..

[tpols]

But that’s not what he said..

And that’s not what the thread title says

I know his ultimate “point” is that Pippen sucked. Trust me, that is not missed..

I mean.... the title is pretty clear. Why couldn't Reggie and the Pacers beat the the '94 Knicks if the '98 Pacers were a hair away from beating them with MJ?

Nevermind that the Bulls were a shot away from a potential 0-3 hole and sweep vs the Knicks. Pippens 1st option caliber is just far below Reggies for their career.

And I don't see Reggie being worse if he gets to be 2nd option to the GOAT and gets even easier looks.

[ShawkFactory]

I mean.... the title is pretty clear. Why couldn't Reggie and the Pacers beat the the '94 Knicks if the '98 Pacers were a hair away from beating them with MJ?

Nevermind that the Bulls were a shot away from a potential 0-3 hole and sweep vs the Knicks. Pippens 1st option caliber is just far below Reggies for their career.

And I don't see Reggie being worse if he gets to be 2nd option to the GOAT and gets even easier looks.

Yes, I understand what the title says. I’ll refer you back to my first post then..

94 and 98 are different years. By a decent amount.

[3ba11]

I think the point is...



Against common playoff opponents, Reggie Miller destroys Pippen in his performances and production. And he did it as the 1st option, with no MJ to distract the defense... just Rik Smits. So if Reggie played with Jordan it would have been even more of a wrap. Like some Curry Durant type tandem.


That's fire