Does bron finally catch mj if lakers win the chip but AD wins fmvp?

[Bronbron23]

I think most sensible ball fans believe bron would catch mj in the goat debate if he wins another chip. What if he does but plays mediocre and davis wins fmvp? Does bron still catch mj or does he need the fmvp also?

[Airupthere]

For me he will never pass MJ. He missed that opportunity a long time ago by superteaming in MIA and doing 2/4. Still one of the greatest to play the game.

[hold this L]

He needs to have 2 more rings to be in that discussion.

[RogueBorg]

I think most sensible ball fans believe bron would catch mj in the goat debate if he wins another chip. What if he does but plays mediocre and davis wins fmvp? Does bron still catch mj or does he need the fmvp also?

Did his 6 Finals losses disappear?
Did 2011 not happen?

[theman93]

Did his 6 Finals losses disappear?
Did 2011 not happen?

What about missing the playoffs his first 2 seasons?
Missing the playoffs entirely the first year he was in the West?
A 24 year old playoff virgin slaying him in the first round?

[RogueBorg]

What about missing the playoffs his first 2 seasons?
Missing the playoffs entirely the first year he was in the West?
A 24 year old playoff virgin slaying him in the first round?

We gon ac like dese dings dint happen?

[SouBeachTalents]

This is why I hate ranking players by titles and why rang count is so stupid. Why would LeBron catch Jordan as GOAT while playing mediocre just because his team happens to win the title? It reminds me when people argue Kareem has 6 rings despite being a shell of himself for the his 2, and a legit role player for the last one.

We need to find a new way to rank and evaluate players. Individual players can have great influence over winning or losing a title, but it's still extremely circumstantial, and comes down to things like supporting cast, opponent, injuries, and plainly lucky or unlucky breaks that are completely out of a players control.

[theman93]

We gon ac like dese dings dint happen?

dayuuuuummm cuhhhhh shiiiii buh yoo aint nevah walk a day in his socks

[Bronbron23]

This is why I hate ranking players by titles and why rang count is so stupid. Why would LeBron catch Jordan as GOAT while playing mediocre just because his team happens to win the title? It reminds me when people argue Kareem has 6 rings despite being a shell of himself for the his 2, and a legit role player for the last one.

We need to find a new way to rank and evaluate players. Individual players can have great influence over winning or losing a title, but it's still extremely circumstantial, and comes down to things like supporting cast, opponent, injuries, and plainly lucky or unlucky breaks that are completely out of a players control.

There is no way to tell dude its all just opinion. Best way is to use accolades, stats, chips and eye test but even then there's to many variables to say for sure. Personally i think if bron gets another chip and fmvp he's tied with mj. That would be one less chip than mj but I give bron extra credit because he beat better teams imo. If he wins another chip but dosn't win fmvp then i'm not sure. Just depends on how he plays. Maybe he plays really good but AD just plays better.

[Bronbron23]

For me he will never pass MJ. He missed that opportunity a long time ago by superteaming in MIA and doing 2/4. Still one of the greatest to play the game.

I don't fault him for colluding like some others do. What was he supposed to do? His owner and gm weren't putting the pieces around him that they needed to win a chip so he took matters into his own hands. Plus he celtics and lakers to a lesser degree did it before him. He was just trying to compete:confusedshrug:

[Bronbron23]

He needs to have 2 more rings to be in that discussion.

I hear ya. Personally u give him extra credit for 16 ring.

[Bronbron23]

Did his 6 Finals losses disappear?
Did 2011 not happen?

6 losses happened but you can't really penalize bron because he made it far. Would ot have been better if he lost in the first round? I don't praise him like his stans for all his runner ups but i don't penalize him for it either.

And yeah 2011 was bad but it was 6 games. He never played like that before or after that. Plus did 2016 not make up for 2011?

[SouBeachTalents]

There is no way to tell dude its all just opinion. Best way is to use accolades, stats, chips and eye test but even then there's to many variables to say for sure. Personally i think if bron gets another chip and fmvp he's tied with mj. That would be one less chip than mj but I give bron extra credit because he beat better teams imo. If he wins another chip but dosn't win fmvp then i'm not sure. Just depends on how he plays. Maybe he plays really good but AD just plays better.
I just dislike the fact that LeBron gets the bulk of his claim for top 2 status on the basis of his 4 title runs, when truth be told, he played better in the '09, '17 & '18 playoffs, but those years get tossed to the trash heap and are barely even mentioned when evaluating where he gets ranked. Ditto Kareem, who produced monster season after monster season in the 70's, yet still gets more consideration for his play in the 80's despite Magic being the Lakers best player for the majority of their titles. It's even applicable to Jordan, who gets more credit for his play during the 2nd 3peat than he does from '88-'90 when he was factually a better player.

Leading a team to a title is an accomplishment that should have consideration in rankings, but I just hate the all or nothing mentality that if your team doesn't win the championship, even if you play at an ATG level, what you did that season and playoffs means nothing, and barely even gets consideration when evaluating and ranking players.

[Bronbron23]

I just dislike the fact that LeBron gets the bulk of his claim for top 2 status on the basis of his 4 title runs, when truth be told, he played better in the '09, '17 & '18 playoffs, but those years get tossed to the trash heap and are barely even mentioned when evaluating where he gets ranked. Ditto Kareem, who produced monster season after monster season in the 70's, yet still gets more consideration for his play in the 80's despite Magic being the Lakers best player for the majority of their titles. It's even applicable to Jordan, who gets more credit for his play during the 2nd 3peat than he does from '88-'90 when he was factually a better player.

Leading a team to a title is an accomplishment that should have consideration in rankings, but I just hate the all or nothing mentality that if your team doesn't win the championship, even if you play at an ATG level, what you did that season and playoffs means nothing, and barely even gets consideration when evaluating and ranking players.

I hear ya but that's where eye test, stats and accolades play a role. Chips definitely shouldn't be everything. I don't think mj's the best player i ever saw because of his chips. I think he's the best mostly based on the eye test it just so happens chips, stats and accolades support what i saw. I do think winning and how you perform on the biggest stage matters but i agree there's alot a variables that go into chips so it isn't necessarily the best measure.

And plus i think bron gets recognition for all those years. I see people all the time talk about his 10 appearances and his total playoff stats and those moments all attributed to that.

At the end of the day no measure is perfect that's why i don't do the goat debate. I think mj is slightly better than bron but that's just my opinion and don't say he's the goat.

[Spurs m8]

What kind of low iq thread is this?

Do better, op

[tontoz]

What kind of low iq thread is this?

Do better, op


Did you expect a high IQ thread from him?

[Baller789]

6 losses happened but you can't really penalize bron because he made it far. Would ot have been better if he lost in the first round? I don't praise him like his stans for all his runner ups but i don't penalize him for it either.

And yeah 2011 was bad but it was 6 games. He never played like that before or after that. Plus did 2016 not make up for 2011?

You can penalize Lebron playing with a stacked deck in the LEASTern Conference yet only going 4/10. And getting swept in the Finals twice with record margins.

[Bronbron23]

You can penalize Lebron playing with a stacked deck in the LEASTern Conference yet only going 4/10. And getting swept in the Finals twice with record margins.

It's true the reason he made that many finals is because his conference was weak but the teams he went up against in the finals were pretty good.

[Bronbron23]

Did you expect a high IQ thread from him?

Come on bruh. Someone who thinks that covid mandates are actually about saving lives shouldn't be talking about low iq :facepalm

[Baller789]

It's true the reason he made that many finals is because his conference was weak but the teams he went up against in the finals were pretty good.

True. But not all.

Dallas was supposed to be a cakewalk but he got sonned by that midget Jason Terry and part time accountant JJ Barrea.

Spurs were old by that time and got r@ped without any lube.

GSW were good, but even they were not invincible during their run. This was shown ny the Rockets almost beating them and their inability to 3-peat.

[Spurs m8]

Imagine building a team solely around yourself..and then being surprised when it doesn't work well when you're out

Where have we seen this before?hahahhahahhahah

[SATAN]

LeBron James is better at basketball than Michael Jordan. Get over it.

[Baller789]

LeBron James is better at basketball than Michael Jordan. Get over it.

Wilt is better than Lebron at basketball.

[GrayGoat]

MJ needed 5 more rings to be on Bill Russell’s level

[Bronbron23]

True. But not all.

Dallas was supposed to be a cakewalk but he got sonned by that midget Jason Terry and part time accountant JJ Barrea.

Spurs were old by that time and got r@ped without any lube.

GSW were good, but even they were not invincible during their run. This was shown ny the Rockets almost beating them and their inability to 3-peat.

Yeah i here u man. There's definitely no excuses with dallas and the heat and spurs were pretty evenly matched so he should of won that also. Can't hate on losing to warriors in 17 abd 18. They were one of the best teams ever. Yeah rockets almost beat them but sometimes styles make fights and rockets matched up well defensively.

[Bronbron23]

MJ needed 5 more rings to be on Bill Russell’s level

That's cool. I have no problem with anyone saying russell is better than mj. Good try though:oldlol:

[SATAN]

Wilt is better than Lebron at bsaketball.

He's not even alive. :facepalm

[Baller789]

Yeah i here u man. There's definitely no excuses with dallas and the heat and spurs were pretty evenly matched so he should of won that also. Can't hate on losing to warriors in 17 abd 18. They were one of the best teams ever. Yeah rockets almost beat them but sometimes styles make fights and rockets matched up well defensively.

Agreed man. You can only make excuses for Lebron so many times.

[Baller789]

He's not even alive. :facepalm

Like saying Babe Ruth can't be better at baseball because he's passed on?

Dumb Lebrontard logic.

[GrayGoat]

LeBron has passed MJ. The gap would widen

[SATAN]

Like saying Babe Ruth can't be better at baseball because he's passed on?

Dumb Lebrontard logic.

At least Babe Ruth made it past the minor league. :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

Well LeBron has passed MJ so the gap would widen.

[RogueBorg]

MJ needed 5 more rings to be on Bill Russell’s level

The same Bill Russell who averaged 15 ppg, that Bill Russell?

[GrayGoat]

The same Bill Russell who averaged 15 ppg, that Bill Russell?

The game is more than stats. The Celtics missed the playoffs following a chip and Russell’s retirement

[Spurs m8]

The same Bill Russell who averaged 15 ppg, that Bill Russell?

Roasted

[Baller789]

At least Babe Ruth made it past the minor league. :oldlol:

Even dumber than i thought. :facepalm

[TheGoatest]

LeBron "caught" Jordan when he did this against a 73-9 team:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAIU6UlU0AEzKDr.jpg

Everything he's done to Jordan since then has been this:

https://stockhead.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dead-already.gif

[Bronbron23]

LeBron "caught" Jordan when he did this against a 73-9 team:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAIU6UlU0AEzKDr.jpg

Everything he's done to Jordan since then has been this:

https://stockhead.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dead-already.gif

Nah 16 just made up for 11. It definitely brought him alot closer to mj though. One more chip snd fmvp and he's right there

[kawhileonard2]

MJ = 6 Titles, 6 finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's = 17 Points total
Russell = 11 Titles, 0 finals MVP's, 5 League MVP's = 16 Points Total
Kareem = 6 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 6 League MVP's = 14 Points Total
Lebron = 4 Titles, 4 finals MVP's, 4 League MVP's = 12 Points Total
Magic = 5 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 11 Points Total
Duncan = 4 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 2 League MVP's = 9 Points Total
Kobe = 5 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 8 Points Total
Shaq = 4 Titles, 3 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 8 Points Total
Bird = 3 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 8 Points Total
Wilt = 2 Titles, 1 finals MVP's, 4 League MVP's = 7 Points Total
Hakeem = 2 Titles, 2 finals MVP's, 1 League MVP's = 5 Points Total
Moses Malone = 1 Titles, 1 finals MVP's, 3 League MVP's = 5 Points Total
Kawhi = 2 Titles, 2 finals MVP's = 4 Points Total

[RogueBorg]

The game is more than stats. The Celtics missed the playoffs following a chip and Russell’s retirement

No doubt, but Russell was average at best offensively. He was a great leader, great rebounder, great shot blocker, average offensive player. You can't be average on one side of the ball and be the GOAT.

[dankok8]

I just dislike the fact that LeBron gets the bulk of his claim for top 2 status on the basis of his 4 title runs, when truth be told, he played better in the '09, '17 & '18 playoffs, but those years get tossed to the trash heap and are barely even mentioned when evaluating where he gets ranked. Ditto Kareem, who produced monster season after monster season in the 70's, yet still gets more consideration for his play in the 80's despite Magic being the Lakers best player for the majority of their titles. It's even applicable to Jordan, who gets more credit for his play during the 2nd 3peat than he does from '88-'90 when he was factually a better player.

Leading a team to a title is an accomplishment that should have consideration in rankings, but I just hate the all or nothing mentality that if your team doesn't win the championship, even if you play at an ATG level, what you did that season and playoffs means nothing, and barely even gets consideration when evaluating and ranking players.

I see where you're coming from but there is wisdom in considering level of play primarily in title runs. In non-championship teams that frequently feature far weaker rosters it's more common for players to put up outrageous stats. As the roster gets better, the best player is less relied upon to do everything. For instance KD last year averaged outrageous numbers in the playoffs but it's obvious he wouldn't touch those numbers if Harden and Kyrie were healthy and the Nets were actually a championship-level team.

The all or nothing mentality where nothing except titles matters is dumb. I agree with that but still comparing performances in the context of winning a championship or at least very strongly contending for a championship is an apples and apples comparison that makes sense.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is still the lakers best player

[GimmeThat]

if a parent isn't suppose to watch a child go before they do, then how is bron suppose to catch mj?

[LeCola]

Lebron is still the lakers best player

Davis>Westbrook>Lebron

[ELITEpower23]

Well LeBron has passed MJ so the gap would widen.

LeGap

[Lebron23]

Davis>Westbrook>Lebron

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2022.html

LeBron is leading the Lakers in Scoring

[expansionera]

No, Lebron passed MJ in 2016 then won another title in 2020

[ELITEpower23]

LeBron "caught" Jordan when he did this against a 73-9 team:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAIU6UlU0AEzKDr.jpg

Everything he's done to Jordan since then has been this:

https://stockhead.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dead-already.gif

Bingo

[LeCola]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2022.html

LeBron is leading the Lakers in Scoring

Davis: 24.2/10.5/2.9 + played all games
Westbrook: 18.9/8.2/8.6 + played all games
Lebron: 24.6/5.6/6.3 - missed 10 of 17 games

[Cyrus334]

No, Lebron passed MJ in 2016 then won another title in 2020

Any basketball fan with sense knows all 2016 did was make up for his embarassing choke job in 2011. How can one title bump you up from not even a Top 5 player to GOAT status?

[ImKobe]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2022.html

LeBron is leading the Lakers in Scoring

He's leading them in ppg by a fraction but that's only because AD had to exit the Portland game in the 1st quarter.

Since then, he's averaging 25.9 ppg on 54.6%FG. He'll end up leading this Lakers' team in ppg as usual. Lebron needs to worry about his playmaking and get Davis more touches in the paint. We don't need an old ass Bran chucking 6-10 threes a game.

[Baller789]

AD is the Lakers' best player obviously.
PEDron James' slight scoring lead doesn't make up for his pathetic defense.

[Axe]

This is why I hate ranking players by titles and why rang count is so stupid. Why would LeBron catch Jordan as GOAT while playing mediocre just because his team happens to win the title? It reminds me when people argue Kareem has 6 rings despite being a shell of himself for the his 2, and a legit role player for the last one.

We need to find a new way to rank and evaluate players. Individual players can have great influence over winning or losing a title, but it's still extremely circumstantial, and comes down to things like supporting cast, opponent, injuries, and plainly lucky or unlucky breaks that are completely out of a players control.
Interesting rational take. Troll-free as well.

[Axe]

He already has 7631 points in the playoffs and is second in finals mvp count. Both look great in his resume tbh. And it's unlikely that you get free candies, stimulus money or any other stuff with these goat rankings. Bashing these players won't either.

[Full Court]

Lebrone has had multiple epic chokes in playoff series or finals. MJ has no epic chokes. For that reason alone, although there are others, Lebrone can never be GOAT. That ship has sailed. He's still top ten though, so no shame in that.

[Axe]

Lebrone has had multiple epic chokes in playoff series or finals. MJ has no epic chokes. For that reason alone, although there are others, Lebrone can never be GOAT. That ship has sailed. He's still top ten though, so no shame in that.
But rodman got finals mvp votes in '96, as well as pippen did in '98.