For the first 9 yrs of their playoff career (prime), MJ averaged more APG than Lebron

[3ba11]

6.6 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game) > 6.4 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game)

Lebron only started averaging more APG in the playoffs after the 15' Warriors changed the game to the current spaced-out, ball-handler-friendly format, when everyone's assists went up.

So Lebron's passing is "manufactured" like everything else.. Is there any aspect of his career that isn't manufactured?..

He formed a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd), and now this?

[TheCorporation]

What about the rest of their careers? :lol Or you just like to stop at 9 like a clown

[ShawkFactory]

It’s always amusing when Lebron haters seem to convince themselves that he isn’t a great passer.

[3ba11]

What about the rest of their careers? :lol Or you just like to stop at 9 like a clown


Do you only read the 1st sentence of an OP?.. The rest answered your question:



Lebron only started averaging more APG in the playoffs after the 15' Warriors changed the game to the current spaced-out, ball-handler-friendly format, when everyone's assists went up.. This was also after their primes (when MJ/Lebron were older).

So Lebron's passing is "manufactured" like everything else.. Is there any aspect of his career that isn't manufactured?..

He formed a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd), and now this?

[j3lademaster]

Is it Deja Vu or did this exact thread get made a few days ago?

[3ba11]

Is it Deja Vu or did this exact thread get made a few days ago?


Negative

The thread you're thinking about is the Ringer.com thread that shows 89' Jordan was a 30/10/10 point guard 30 years before Luka, Westbrook, Harden, Lebron, etc... aka futuristic at point guard:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499374-Ringer-com-MJ-was-30-yrs-ahead-of-time-as-30-10-10-PG-like-Westbrook-Luka-etc


That's why the media said that Jordan was already a better PG than Magic, Isiah and Stockton after just 10 games at the new position in 89' (https://ballislife.com/michael-jordan-could-of-been-the-best-point-guard-ever-want-proof/) - they'd never seen a 30/10/10 point guard in the modern era

[000]

Yep. Lebron sucks at passing, rebounding, defense, scoring, jumpshooting, leadership, clutch, toughness, mamba mentality, etc.

How this bum even made the league is a mystery

[RRR3]

It’s always amusing when Lebron haters seem to convince themselves that he isn’t a great passer.
Lol they can’t admit he’s good at anything. Somehow, according to them, a complete scrub has won 8 combined regular season and finals MVPs.

[3ba11]

Yep. Lebron sucks at passing, rebounding, defense, scoring, jumpshooting, leadership, clutch, toughness, mamba mentality, etc.

How this bum even made the league is a mystery


5 less PPG than MJ in the playoffs on lower efficiency per possession, with less team assists and team offense despite more offensive help (1b's & 3rd scorers), so his small personal assist advantage means exactly nothing

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Damn so even the one LeBron advantage, Jordan still shoves it up his ass. What a damn god.

Only retards and nerds think LeBron is a goat level player anyway. Real ballers know

[000]

5 less PPG than MJ in the playoffs on lower efficiency per possession, with less team assists and team offense despite more offensive help (1b's & 3rd scorers), so his small personal assist advantage means exactly nothing
Agree. Not top 60 of alltime

[3ba11]

Lol they can’t admit he’s good at anything. Somehow, according to them, a complete scrub has won 8 combined regular season and finals MVPs.


Jordan was doing what Lebron, Luka and Westbrook do (30/10/10), except it was 30 years before they were doing it and with a format that wasn't conducive for penetrators like the 2015-present era

So Lebron's passing is a function of today's ball-dominant era and therefore overrated compared to jordan's... And obviously the scoring is no contest - Lebron never carried the scoring load on the Finals level and never beat good teams with bed-wetting teammates, so he can't carry teams like MJ... These are statistical facts and historical record.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol they can’t admit he’s good at anything. Somehow, according to them, a complete scrub has won 8 combined regular season and finals MVPs.

And apparently he's never seen a double in his life. Pretty impressive assist numbers given that, eh? He must be an exceedingly skilled passer.

[3ba11]

And apparently he's never seen a double in his life. Pretty impressive assist numbers given that, eh? He must be an exceedingly skilled passer.


Good post

Except Lebron would get doubled regardless of his passing ability if he had the ability to consistently POP OFF - this commands doubles regardless of passing ability..

Magic had this same affliction (non-elite jumpshooting skill), so he couldn't pop off and command doubles either, except on the post.. Magic could go off on the post so defenses had to double him regardless of his passing.

Ultimately, being able to reach that top level of scoring ability (popping off) controls the game more than anything else, especially if the player is also an elite passer (30/10/10 ability as the ball-dominator), which Jordan was doing 30 years before anyone else.

[ShawkFactory]

Good post

Except Lebron would get doubled regardless of his passing ability if he had the ability to consistently POP OFF - this commands doubles regardless of passing ability..

Magic had this same affliction (non-elite jumpshooting skill), so he couldn't pop off and command doubles either, except on the post.

Ultimately, being able to reach that top level of scoring ability (popping off) controls the game more than anything else, especially if the player is also an elite passer (30/10/10 ability as the ball-dominator), which Jordan was doing 30 years before anyone else.

Yea that's not what we were talking about. Do you do that on purpose or do you forget what the discussion actually was?

[3ba11]

Yea that's not what we were talking about. Do you do that on purpose or do you forget what the discussion actually was?


The discussion is how Jordan was a better passer than Lebron in the playoffs during their primes (until 30 yrs old) and before Lebron started benefitting from the current Warriors era (2015-present)

[ShawkFactory]

The discussion is how Jordan was a better passer than Lebron in the playoffs during their primes (until 30 yrs old) and before Lebron started benefitting from the current Warriors era (2015-present)

Yes and I made a counter argument to that. You then talked about something else.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah, if you remove 5 of LeBron's best playoff runs and 3 of Jordan's worst, Jordan will surprisingly have the statistical edge. Fakkit :lol

[3ba11]

Yes and I made a counter argument to that. You then talked about something else.


Lebron's lack of doubles means that his PPG is low compared to Jordan, while his assists are lower too except once they got older and the ball-handler-friendly Warriors era took over (2015-present).

[Phoenix]

Yes and I made a counter argument to that. You then talked about something else.

:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

:oldlol:

It's unreal :lol

[3ba11]

Yeah, if you remove 5 of LeBron's best playoff runs and 3 of Jordan's worst, Jordan will surprisingly have the statistical edge. Fakkit :lol


So you want to include when they entered their 30's (past prime) and after the higher-scoring Warriors era and rule changes took over (2015-present) when everyone's assists increased?

[ShawkFactory]

So you want to include when they entered their 30's (past prime) and after the higher-scoring Warriors era and rule changes took over (2015-present) when everyone's assists increased?

Nope. That also has nothing to do with what I said :lol

[3ba11]

Nope. That also has nothing to do with what I said :lol


You responded to the wrong post.. lay off the pipe or get some better shit

[TheCorporation]

If we compared their last 5 years of playoffs it's going to be YIKES CITY :lol

Ready? Here we go

MJ's last 5 playoff runs (93, 95, 96, 97, 98)
398 assists, 87 games = 4.57 apg

LBJ's last 5 playoff runs (16, 17, 18, 20, 21)
731 assists, 88 games = 8.30 apg

BLOODBATH WIN FOR LEBRON YET AGAIN. LEBRON DOUBLED MJ'S ASSISTS AND MATCHED HIS POINTS.

I can almost confirm you're a pro LeBron troll at this point, there's no other explanation. Very clever but I'm onto you.

[ShawkFactory]

You responded to the wrong post.. lay off the pipe or get some better shit

Dude...what? Are you losing it?

[3ba11]

Dude...what? Are you losing it?


You responded to the wrong post.. I was responding to SouBeach and you responded to that post.. So you're either high or still deflecting..

[ShawkFactory]

I answered your point of Lebron being a better passer due to no doubles

Lebron's lack of doubles means that his PPG is inflated compared to Jordan, Curry and others that get doubled, while his assists are lower than Jordan too except once they got older and the ball-handler-friendly Warriors era took over (2015-present).

And this is where you lose the train of the argument. And yes, I'm like 95% sure you're doing it on purpose. But whatever I'm just watching football on my couch and have a minute.

You: Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron (in this arbitrarily chosen period, mind you)

Me: Lebron got doubled less, therefore deflating his assist numbers

You: But that inflated his scoring and it isn't as good for his team.

Me: That wasn't what YOUR thread was about, loser.

Your rebuttal to me isn't related in any way to the premise of your initial argument. Mine was. So you can see where one might be confused as to what the **** you're talking about.

[ClipperRevival]

If we compared their last 5 years of playoffs it's going to be YIKES CITY :lol

Ready? Here we go

MJ's last 5 playoff runs (93, 95, 96, 97, 98)
398 assists, 87 games = 4.57 apg

LBJ's last 5 playoff runs (16, 17, 18, 20, 21)
731 assists, 88 games = 8.30 apg

BLOODBATH WIN FOR LEBRON YET AGAIN. LEBRON DOUBLED MJ'S ASSISTS AND MATCHED HIS POINTS.

I can almost confirm you're a pro LeBron troll at this point, there's no other explanation. Very clever but I'm onto you.

So MJ: 4 chips, 4 FMVP, 80% win ratio

LeGOAT: 2 chips 2 FMVP, 40% win ratio

Thanks for CONFIRMING most of LeGOAT's stats were empty. :applause:

[3ba11]

And this is where you lose the train of the argument. And yes, I'm like 95% sure you're doing it on purpose. But whatever I'm just watching football on my couch and have a minute.

You: Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron (in this arbitrarily chosen period, mind you)

Me: Lebron got doubled less, therefore deflating his assist numbers

You: But that inflated his scoring and it isn't as good for his team.

Me: That wasn't what YOUR thread was about, loser.

Your rebuttal to me isn't related in any way to the premise of your initial argument. Mine was. So you can see where one might be confused as to what the **** you're talking about.


You're praising a lower level of play to make your argument, which means you don't have one.

Lebron must focus on passing because he can't pop off and command doubles - it's a lower level of play - and his inability to command doubles means that he's scoring on single-coverage, which inflates his PPG compared to Curry, Jordan and others that command doubles (while also having lower assists before they got older and the ball-handler-friendly Warriors era took over, 2015-present).

[ShawkFactory]

You're praising a lower level of play to make your argument, which means you don't have one.

Lebron must focus on passing because he can't pop off and command doubles - it's a lower level of play - and his inability to command doubles means that he's scoring on single-coverage, which inflates his PPG compared to Curry, Jordan and others that command doubles (while also having lower assists before they got older and the ball-handler-friendly Warriors era took over, 2015-present).

No one is praising anything. I'm just making a factual and logical argument. And your weak-premised thread can't handle that.

Just make another thread about how Lebron can't pop off and call it a day.

[TheCorporation]

So MJ: 4 chips, 4 FMVP, 80% win ratio

LeGOAT: 2 chips 2 FMVP, 40% win ratio

Thanks for CONFIRMING most LeGOaT's stats were empty. :applause:

Super Duper alt exposed :lol What a loon.

[3ba11]

If we compared their last 5 years of playoffs it's going to be YIKES CITY :lol

Ready? Here we go

MJ's last 5 playoff runs (93, 95, 96, 97, 98)
398 assists, 87 games = 4.57 apg

LBJ's last 5 playoff runs (16, 17, 18, 20, 21)
731 assists, 88 games = 8.30 apg

BLOODBATH WIN FOR LEBRON YET AGAIN. LEBRON DOUBLED MJ'S ASSISTS AND MATCHED HIS POINTS.

I can almost confirm you're a pro LeBron troll at this point, there's no other explanation. Very clever but I'm onto you.


Playoff stats for first 9 years of playoff career before before the Warriors-era increased everyone's assists (pre-2015)


06-14' Lebron.... 28/8/6 on 48%
85-93' Jordan.... 35/7/7 on 50%

[SouBeachTalents]

So MJ: 4 chips, 4 FMVP, 80% win ratio

LeGOAT: 2 chips 2 FMVP, 40% win ratio

Thanks for CONFIRMING most of LeGOAT's stats were empty. :applause:
Even the biggest Jordan stans know deep down that if you swapped the ‘97 & ‘98 Jazz with the ‘17 & ‘18 Warriors LeBron would be the one with the title edge.

[TheCorporation]

Playoff stats for first 9 years of playoff career before before the Warriors-era increased everyone's assists (pre-2015)


06-14' Lebron.... 28/8/6 on 48%
85-93' Jordan.... 35/7/7 on 50%

We dont need size 5 font or bold font. Don't get all hissy my boy :lol

MJ's last 5 playoff runs (93, 95, 96, 97, 98)
398 assists, 87 games = 4.57 apg

LBJ's last 5 playoff runs (16, 17, 18, 20, 21)
731 assists, 88 games = 8.30 apg

BLOODBATH WIN FOR LEBRON YET AGAIN. LEBRON DOUBLED MJ'S ASSISTS AND MATCHED HIS POINTS.

I can almost confirm you're a pro LeBron troll at this point, there's no other explanation. Very clever but I'm onto you.

[3ba11]

No one is praising anything. I'm just making a factual and logical argument. And your weak-premised thread can't handle that.

Just make another thread about how Lebron can't pop off and call it a day.


You're saying it's better to be incapable of commanding doubles and having to focus on passing, than being capable of commanding doubles and doing whatever you want - so you're praising a lower level of play, which is dumb..

Bottom line - MJ was the better assist-man in the playoffs (first 9 years) before the Warriors' ball-handler friendly era took over (2015-present) - that's the historical record

[ShawkFactory]

You're saying it's better to be incapable of commanding doubles than being capable (praising a lower level of play) which is dumb

I have not once said that. Your reading comprehension is very poor

[3ba11]

I have not once said that. Your reading comprehension is very poor


That's what your argument says, but the bottom line is that MJ was the better assist-man in the playoffs (first 9 years) before the Warriors' ball-handler friendly era took over (2015-present) - that's the historical record

Nothing you said refutes Jordan's better assist production before the era change, which coupled with his massive advantage in scoring and burden (no equal-scoring teammates) - he destroys Lebron

[ClipperRevival]

Even the biggest Jordan stans know deep down that if you swapped the ‘97 & ‘98 Jazz with the ‘17 & ‘18 Warriors LeBron would be the one with the title edge.

We do?

The same Jazz team that took out the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Horry, Fisher etc via 4-0 and 4-1?

And the same Bron led team that got destroyed 4-0 and 4-1?

Yeah, super convincing indeed.

[ShawkFactory]

That's what your argument says, but the bottom line is that MJ was the better assist-man in the playoffs (first 9 years) before the Warriors' ball-handler friendly era took over (2015-present) - that's the historical record

Nothing you said refutes Jordan's better assist production before the era change, which coupled with his massive advantage in scoring and burden (no equal-scoring teammates) - he destroys Lebron

It is not.

I said 95% chance that you were blatantly trolling but I'm gonna bump that on up to 97%. Which is my cutoff (yea I know it should be lower).

[3ba11]

Even the biggest Jordan stans know deep down that if you swapped the ‘97 & ‘98 Jazz with the ‘17 & ‘18 Warriors LeBron would be the one with the title edge.


If MJ's Bulls had an extra perennial all-star teammate like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), or a perennial all-star to play 3rd option like Lebron had (Big 3 super-team), then he would beat any team in history.

But MJ only had 1 all-star teammate who never achieved elite 1st option stats (low-producer) and averaged 10-30 less in every series.. So MJ didn't even have an equal-producer at 2nd option like Lebron had with 11' Wade or 20' AD, let alone a 3rd option star (super-team)..

Remember that Lebron had the preseason favorite from 2011-2016, but these favorites fell to underdog or loser by the Finals every year except the Ray Allen miracle.. So Lebron starts with the on-paper/talent favorite, but falls to underdog as the season progresses due to weak brand of ball.

[SouBeachTalents]

We do?

The same Jazz team that took out the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Horry, Fisher etc via 4-0 and 4-1?

And the same Bron led team that got destroyed 4-0 and 4-1?

Yeah, super convincing indeed.
You're probably too stubborn to concede literally any argument that favors LeBron, but yeah, I would pick the 2017 Cavs over either of those Jazz teams. And Jordan, regardless if he has his Bulls supporting cast or the Cavs, is not beating the 2017 Warriors, and he's very unlikely to beat them in 2018 either. BEST case scenario, they'd end up with 5 titles & FMVP's apiece.

[3ba11]

You're probably too stubborn to concede literally any argument that favors LeBron, but yeah, I would pick the 2017 Cavs over either of those Jazz teams. And Jordan, regardless if he has his Bulls supporting cast or the Cavs, is not beating the 2017 Warriors, and he's very unlikely to beat them in 2018 either. BEST case scenario, they'd end up with 5 titles & FMVP's apiece.


Do you realize that Lebron's sidekicks destroy the league MVP in numerous playoff runs (2011, 2016, 2020)?

Don't act like Jordan had a sidekick that was destroying the league MVP - if he did, no team could beat him...

But it was nowhere near that, so Jordan was barely beating teams like the Jazz or Sonics, instead of sweeping them with a sidekick that could destroy their best player... Jordan would've swept the 16' Warriors and beaten the 17' Warriors in 6 if he had a teammate that could destroy the league MVP (achieve elite 1st option stats) and had a 3rd offensive star (super-team).

Remember that Lebron had the preseason favorite from 2011-2016, but these favorites fell to underdog or loser by the Finals every year except the Ray Allen miracle.. So Lebron starts with the on-paper/talent favorite, but falls to underdog as the season progresses due to weak brand of ball.

[ClipperRevival]

You're probably too stubborn to concede literally any argument that favors LeBron, but yeah, I would pick the 2017 Cavs over either of those Jazz teams. And Jordan, regardless if he has his Bulls supporting cast or the Cavs, is not beating the 2017 Warriors, and he's very unlikely to beat them in 2018 either. BEST case scenario, they'd end up with 5 titles & FMVP's apiece.

Those Jazz teams were greater than the sum of their parts. A well coached, well oiled machine that played as a unit. Sort of like the Pop's Spurs. On paper, they had no business beating the ultra stacked Lakers via 4-0 and 4-1 but they did.

And the Bulls match up well with GSW given their perimeter defenders in MJ, Pip and Harper. Not to mention, a jack of all trades guy like Kukoc to switch.

It's all speculative but I'm not conceding anything against MJ. MJ was 6/6/6 in the finals. He came up big when it mattered most. Until proven otherwise, I give him the benefit of the doubt. And what rules are we playing under? Old school rules? Then it tilts more for the Bulls.

[dankok8]

This comes back again to the whole "Would the Bulls threepeat in another era?" that SouBeachTalents and I were talking about in another thread.

This whole idea that for the Bulls titles to be validated they would have to beat the 2017 or 2018 Warriors is ludicrous. One championship team doesn't have to beat another championship team. They should have to beat the teams that other championship team beat. A better fairer question is would the 1997 and 1998 Bulls in place of the 2017 and 2018 Warriors win those 2 titles?

As for my take...

I think in 2017 there is no question. The Bulls when healthy (with Rodman) played at a 72-win pace just like the 1996 Bulls and they were healthy in the playoffs. Spurs with injured Kawhi no chance and then the 2017 Cavs were a 51-win +2.87 SRS team, ranked 21st on defense and that equals almost no chance against the juggernaut Bulls. In 2018 it's a bit dicey because I could see Houston beating the 1998 Bulls. But assuming Paul is injured in the last two games like he was against the Warriors, the Bulls would be at least slight favorites there too. They also match up really well. Harper/Jordan/Pippen would give hell to Harden and Paul and Rodman would destroy their small ball lineups on the glass. And then of course they'd crush that Cavs who were much worse than the year before.

[TheGoatest]

What about the rest of their careers? :lol Or you just like to stop at 9 like a clown

Not only that, but he chose a specific set of seasons to coincide with two fluke high apg playoff runs for Jordan, and two fluke low apg for LeBron.
LMAO @ stopping at 9. Who rounds things off at 9? The 10 is right there. Why couldn't you make this thread about a round number like 10 and compare their apg in their first 10 playoff runs? Or the first 5?

[3ba11]

Not only that, but he chose a specific set of seasons to coincide with two fluke high apg playoff runs for Jordan, and two fluke low apg for LeBron.
LMAO @ stopping at 9. Who rounds things off at 9? The 10 is right there. Why couldn't you make this thread about a round number like 10 and compare their apg in their first 10 playoff runs? Or the first 5?


You can't include 2015-2022 for Lebron because that's the Warriors era where EVERYONE's assists, points and stats increased - Harden, Westbrook, Lebron and other ball-dominators saw their APG and stats increase in the Warriors' era.

So we can only use 2006-2014, which is his first 9 years and before the Warriors' stat inflation and before he was 30 (before they got old).

[3ba11]

.
MJ had futuristic handle:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-10-2022/-6iz0b.gif

[3ba11]

.
Furthermore, Jordan was an off-ball player but a better passer than Lebron when he played the PG role:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/Vlajbk.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/jxlMpS.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/KE9_ha.gif



Ringer.com: MJ was 30 yrs ahead of time as 30/10/10 PG like Westbrook, Luka, etc.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/nDBX5i.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/GjUUon.gif



However, learning to win (organic) = learning to produce w/out the offense revolving around u
aka dominating the ball LESS

Lebron never learned this lesson, so he had to team-hop for sufficient talent to offset the weaker strategy/brand of ball.

It's funny because Jordan led Lebron in APG for the first 9 years of their respective playoff careers, which coincided with losing more than the lower assist playoff years later in his career - better ball movement equaled more winning as his career progressed.

[StrongLurk]

.
Furthermore, Jordan was an off-ball player but a better passer than Lebron when he played the PG role:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/Vlajbk.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/jxlMpS.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-09-2022/KE9_ha.gif



Ringer.com: MJ was 30 yrs ahead of time as 30/10/10 PG like Westbrook, Luka, etc.


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/nDBX5i.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/GjUUon.gif



However, learning to win (organic) = learning to produce w/out the offense revolving around u
aka dominating the ball LESS

Lebron never learned this lesson, so he had to team-hop for sufficient talent to offset the weaker strategy/brand of ball.

It's funny because Jordan led Lebron in APG for the first 9 years of their respective playoff careers, which coincided with losing more than the lower assist playoff years later in his career - better ball movement equaled more winning as his career progressed.

It's funny how insecure you are about Lebron. Makes sense I guess considering you're crazy and Lebron is the second best player of all time.

Aren't you like 44 years old? How do you act so immaturely?

[Hey Yo]

Do you realize that Lebron's sidekicks destroy the league MVP in numerous playoff runs (2011, 2016, 2020)?

Don't act like Jordan had a sidekick that was destroying the league MVP - if he did, no team could beat him...

But it was nowhere near that, so Jordan was barely beating teams like the Jazz or Sonics, instead of sweeping them with a sidekick that could destroy their best player... Jordan would've swept the 16' Warriors and beaten the 17' Warriors in 6 if he had a teammate that could destroy the league MVP (achieve elite 1st option stats) and had a 3rd offensive star (super-team).

Remember that Lebron had the preseason favorite from 2011-2016, but these favorites fell to underdog or loser by the Finals every year except the Ray Allen miracle.. So Lebron starts with the on-paper/talent favorite, but falls to underdog as the season progresses due to weak brand of ball.

Jordan's 5th option got multiple FMVP votes.

[Hey Yo]

We do?

The same Jazz team that took out the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Horry, Fisher etc via 4-0 and 4-1?

And the same Bron led team that got destroyed 4-0 and 4-1?

Yeah, super convincing indeed.

The same Jazz team who only scored 54pts in a Finals game?

[3ba11]

Jordan's 5th option got multiple FMVP votes.


That's an indictment on Pippen that he couldn't get more votes than a 4 ppg player and didn't get a single vote in 6 Finals (0/6).

Pippen is the only sidekick that went more than 2 Finals victories without getting FMVP or 25 ppg, so he went longer than anyone without playing at an elite level

[Hey Yo]

That's an indictment on Pippen that he couldn't get more votes than a 4 ppg player and didn't get a single vote in 6 Finals (0/6).

Pippen is the only sidekick that went more than 2 Finals victories without getting FMVP or 25 ppg, so he went longer than anyone without playing at an elite level

Nope... it's an indictment of a severely stacked superteam.

[3ba11]

Nope... it's an indictment of a severely stacked superteam.


How many votes for Pippen?

Pippen is the only sidekick that went more than 2 Finals victories without getting FMVP or 25 ppg, so the Bulls won with less production from their sidekick than anyone else did.. :confusedshrug:

What were Pippen's stats in that series (15 on 34%) or at ANY point during the 2nd three-peat (17 on 41% for entire 96-98' Playoffs)

Only Jordan could win with that crap and have goat offenses with literally the least offensive help ever - the Bulls went 4 on 5 with Rodman and then Westbrick sucked, I mean Pippen sucked.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

Jordan averaged more assists at point guard than Lebron and more assists in the playoffs before the pace and space era (pre-2015), so he was a superior passer and obviously a far superior scorer

[GrayGoat]

Good bump op you got us all believing

[3ba11]

Good bump op you got us all believing


There's nothing to "believe"... There's only being "informed" of the facts (thread title)

[3ba11]

.

PLAYOFFS

06-14 Lebron'...... 28/8/6
85-93' Jordan...... 35/7/7


The narratives of MJ being "just a scorer" are statistically-false since MJ actually averaged more playoff APG for the first half of their chips (85-93' vs 06-14')

The "just a scorer" narrative is probably the most egregiously-false, since MJ actually passed more than Lebron to win his first 3 chips and also averaged more APG during his stint at PG than Lebron ever did, and also averaged more APG on the championship level than Lebron ever did

[beau_boy04]

Lebron looking at his stats mid game and every 5 minutes and see if he needed to come off the bench to stat pad a lil more.

MJ looking to win games and chips.