Top 50 List Revisited

[dankok8]

We just wrapped up the top 50 list a few days ago. We have a pretty good list.

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - Oscar Robertson
#14 - Jerry West
#15 - Moses Malone
#16 - Julius Erving
#17 - Kevin Durant
#18 - Kevin Garnett
#19 - Karl Malone
#20 - Dirk Nowitzki
#21 - Charles Barkley
#22 - David Robinson
#23 - Dwyane Wade
#24 - Elgin Baylor
#25 - Scottie Pippen
#26 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
#27 - John Havlicek
#28 - Isiah Thomas
#29 - Bob Pettit
#30 - Chris Paul
#31 - Kawhi Leonard
#32 - Rick Barry
#33 - James Harden
#34 - Patrick Ewing
#35 - Bob Cousy
#36 - John Stockton
#37 - Jason Kidd
#38 - Steve Nash
#39 - Willis Reed
#40 - Walt Frazier
#41 - Allen Iverson
#42 - Clyde Drexler
#43 - Russell Westbrook
#44 - Kevin McHale
#45 - Elvin Hayes
#46 - George Gervin
#47 - Gary Payton
#48 - Bill Walton
#49 - Dominique Wilkins
#50 - Dwight Howard

All the positions are represented well:
- 12 point guards
- 8 shooting guards
- 10 small forwards
- 9 power forwards
- 11 centers

All the decades are represented well:
- 7 players who peaked in the late 50's and 60's
- 8 players who peaked in the 70's
- 7 players who peaked in the 80's
- 9 players who peaked in the 90's
- 10 players who peaked in the 00's
- 9 players who peaked in the 10's

[L.Kizzle]

Player with least All-NBA appearances: Kevin McHale with 1.
Player with least All-Star game appearances: Bill Walton with 2.
Player(s) with no NBA Finals appearances: Steve Nash, George Gervin, Dominique Wilkins.

[ELITEpower23]

Solid list!

Players I'd move to later positions:
McHale at 44
Curry at 12
Wade at 23
Isiah Thomas at 28

Players I'd move to earlier positions:
Chris Paul at 30
Jason Kidd at 37

[Phoenix]

That's actually not the worst list I've seen( considering this is ISH we're talking about :lol), at least relative to some of the lists from USA today, SLAM etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

For as much of a shithole as this place is, this is actually a very respectable list. With the exception of Walton, the only truly bad pick of the list, all these guys would make my top 50 as well, or at least be in contention for it.

[L.Kizzle]

Only 31 players from the original top 50 made the list.

[ELITEpower23]

For as much of a shithole as this place is, this is actually a very respectable list. With the exception of Walton, the only truly bad pick of the list, all these guys would make my top 50 as well, or at least be in contention for it.

Isiah at 28 sits right with you? To me that might be the worst misplacing by about 20 spots.

[SouBeachTalents]

Just looking at the RealGM list made last year October 2020, some interesting disparities between our list and theirs

Curry
ISH: 12
RGM: 24

Nash
ISH: 38
RGM: 27

Kawhi
ISH: 31
RGM: 42

Isiah
ISH: 28
RGM: 43

Hayes
ISH: 45
RGM: 59

Cousy
ISH: 35
RGM: 63

Iverson
ISH: 41
RGM: 66

Wilkins
ISH: 49
RGM: 73

Giannis
ISH: 26
RGM: 74

Walton
ISH: 48
RGM: 100

[dankok8]

Just looking at the RealGM list made last year October 2020, some interesting disparities between our list and theirs

Curry
ISH: 12
RGM: 24

Nash
ISH: 38
RGM: 27

Kawhi
ISH: 31
RGM: 42

Isiah
ISH: 28
RGM: 43

Hayes
ISH: 45
RGM: 59

Cousy
ISH: 35
RGM: 63

Iverson
ISH: 41
RGM: 66

Wilkins
ISH: 49
RGM: 73

Giannis
ISH: 26
RGM: 74

Walton
ISH: 48
RGM: 100

Honestly of the ones posted here I like all of our rankings more than theirs.

[L.Kizzle]

Just looking at the RealGM list made last year October 2020, some interesting disparities between our list and theirs

Curry
ISH: 12
RGM: 24

Nash
ISH: 38
RGM: 27

Kawhi
ISH: 31
RGM: 42

Isiah
ISH: 28
RGM: 43

Hayes
ISH: 45
RGM: 59

Cousy
ISH: 35
RGM: 63

Iverson
ISH: 41
RGM: 66

Wilkins
ISH: 49
RGM: 73

Giannis
ISH: 26
RGM: 74

Walton
ISH: 48
RGM: 100
Nobody is taking a list with Horace Grant, Jeff Hornacek and Terry Porter in the top 100 serious.
They have Rasheed Wallace over Giannis.

[Zeppelin]

RealGM and overrating the ever-living crap out of Nash and Garnett - name a more iconic combo.

I actually think the Insidehoops list is a lot better, you can certainly argue some of the particular placings but more often than not, a player belongs +- 5 spots around where they are ranked. The Bill Walton placement is wacky but at least the man had one of the 25 or so best peaks ever (albeit a very short one) so it doesn't bother me that much. Isaiah is a weird case - you could move him well below or even a little above depending on your perspective. I will say that he is better than Chris Paul, advanced statistics be damned. He played on teams that were for the most part comparable or even worse than Paul's, and achieve much more in a really strong era (when considering the top end of the league).

[fsvr54]

Going to 60 or 75 would've been interesting. Lot of interesting names left off

[Sulico]

Honestly of the ones posted here I like all of our rankings more than theirs.

No shit!

I mean, I know I'm a Steph's homer, but 24!?!

People with 2 MVPs and 3 chips are that common in NBA I guess.

[Zeppelin]

The idiots have Giannis at 74! If he retired tomorrow, he would have accomplished more than Garnett, who half of them have in their top 10s, his rank on their list is 11.

[hold this L]

ISH surprisingly has a much better list than RGM. Having Giannis at 74 even before his championship is bizarre. That's an MVP and DPOTY....


The idiots have Giannis at 74! If he retired tomorrow, he would have accomplished more than Garnett, who half of them have in their top 10s, his rank on their list is 11.
Garnett has to be the most overrated player in the league when it comes to people who watch ball and want to show clever they are. 11th! :facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

ISH surprisingly has a much better list than RGM. Having Giannis at 74 even before his championship is bizarre. That's an MVP and DPOTY....


Garnett has to be the most overrated player in the league when it comes to people who watch ball and want to show clever they are. 11th! :facepalm
Their lis is terrible. Jeff Hornacek is a few spots in front of James Worthy.
Chris Webber did not make the list but Horace Grant did.
Chauncey Billups is in the top 50.

[2much_knowledge]

No list is gonna be perfect but Curry is way to high. I don't understand why Curry and Durant are far appart and i don't get why Pippen is so ahead of drexler. Hakeem didn't have a better career than Kobe. Not even close

[2much_knowledge]

The only correct way to do a top list

20) You
19) Really
18) Can't
17) Do
16) A
15) List
14) Because
13) There
12) Are
11) Too
10) Many
9) Different
8) Opinions
7) Perspectives
6) And
5) Valid
4) Points
3)And
2) Views
1) Michael Jordan

[Nike D'Antoni]

I think in our lists Chris Paul is too high and should be more in the 40s. Kawhi should be higher. That's the Lebron fans voter effect.
I like everything else, but I take Dirk over Garnett. Durant - Curry I lean for Durant too.Giannis over Pippen.
Overall I like the list, there won't be any list you 100% agree on. But our list is at least no joke.


RealGM list is pure comedy.

[SouBeachTalents]

No list is gonna be perfect but Curry is way to high. I don't understand why Curry and Durant are far appart and i don't get why Pippen is so ahead of drexler. Hakeem didn't have a better career than Kobe. Not even close
What exactly made Kobe's career "not even close" to Hakeem's? The Shaq titles? Cause I can assure you if you give Hakeem a Shaq level player he's winning several additional titles too.

[Gohan]

If iverson is not in your top 10 then your list has no credibility

[Naero]

Good work, ISH. :applause: I wish I was around to contribute from the get-go.

It's a good look for this board. ISH may still be the NBA mecca for trolls, but you wouldn't infer that from this list. There's nothing truly outrageous in the top twenty, which is where it's the most potentially controversial. There might be some skewed results later on, but you'll find disputable rankings that deep in any list; it usually gets slipshod at that point since most don't care to split hairs beyond the top ten-fifteen—much less up to the top fifty.

I'm surprised to see Curry at twelve, though. Just two and a half years ago, ISH's then-consensus (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?467696-Where-Will-You-Rank-Curry-If-He-Wins-This-Year-s-Finals-MVP) was that he'd crack the top fifteen at most with a Finals MVP. The only accolades he's added since is another scoring title and an All-NBA First Team selection; it seems generous to vault him to twelve based on just that.

It's not that laughable in any case; it's just, again, surprising. Maybe he's just easier to appreciate after the league sorely missed him in 2019-20—not to mention, his team isn't as villainous now without KD. I find the ranking prematurely high personally, but he'll have validated it in my book by the end of this season. With his third MVP, potential third scoring title, the all-time three-point record, and possibly a championship and Finals MVP in the offing, perhaps the twelfth spot would underrank him, if anything, a year from now.

All in all, solid list, and kudos to OP for hosting it. I'm glad ISH could suspend its usual agendas for this project.

[2much_knowledge]

What exactly made Kobe's career "not even close" to Hakeem's? The Shaq titles? Cause I can assure you if you give Hakeem a Shaq level player he's winning several additional titles too.

I love hakeem. The fact that he won the tittle in 94 w/o allstars and as a low seed in 95 is the main reason he is up there. But those tittles came when Jordan was out and rusty. From 96 to 99 he had decent teams and just disappeared from relevance. Maybe not even close its not accurate. But overall i feel kobe had the better career

[Micku]

The idiots have Giannis at 74! If he retired tomorrow, he would have accomplished more than Garnett, who half of them have in their top 10s, his rank on their list is 11.

Yeah. Giannis accomplished a lot in a short amount of time. MVP and DPOY of the year at the same time. Only Hakeem and MJ did that. And he won another MVP and got a Finals MVP. And he has the stats to boot.

The dude is amazing. I wann'a say he is above the KG tier although KG accomplished a lot as well. And Giannis could be getting a bit better too. I could understand the longevity argument, but Giannis accomplished a lot.

[Round Mound]

Dirk, Garnett and Malone above Barkley is a crime. Only PF better than Barkley was Tim Duncan (especially in their peaks)

[DevBooker'sMask]

Dirk, Garnett and Malone above Barkley is a crime. Only PF better than Barkley was Tim Duncan (especially in their peaks)

i give you malone and kg but dirk was hot fiya

[L.Kizzle]

Dirk, Garnett and Malone above Barkley is a crime. Only PF better than Barkley was Tim Duncan (especially in their peaks)
Chuck has been dethroned.

[Blazers32]

Having Westbrook & Iverson over Lillard is a crime.

[L.Kizzle]

Having Westbrook & Iverson over Lillard is a crime.
How. They're better

[Gohan]

Having Westbrook & Iverson over Lillard is a crime.

Maybe lilliards better than westbrook but if youd ever watch iverson play youd know he is miles better than lilliard

[Blazers32]

Maybe lilliards better than westbrook but if youd ever watch iverson play youd know he is miles better than lilliard

Iverson ruined the Pistons, and Nuggets looked better without him. I cannot forget that

[John8204]

#25 - Scottie Pippen
#38 - Steve Nash
#42 - Clyde Drexler
#43 - Russell Westbrook
#47 - Gary Payton
#50 - Dwight Howard

It's an okay list but I would take those guys off and put on

George Mikan
Dolph Schayes
Nate Archibald
Mel Daniels
Nate Thurmond
Alex English

Very interested in seeing if Russ would still be on that list after this year

[SouBeachTalents]

#25 - Scottie Pippen
#38 - Steve Nash
#42 - Clyde Drexler
#43 - Russell Westbrook
#47 - Gary Payton
#50 - Dwight Howard

It's an okay list but I would take those guys off and put on

George Mikan
Dolph Schayes
Nate Archibald
Mel Daniels
Nate Thurmond
Alex English

Very interested in seeing if Russ would still be on that list after this year
You have to be a gimmick account. Nobody just makes terrible point after terrible point about multiple sports on such a consistent basis. You have to be doing this intentionally.

[John8204]

You have to be a gimmick account. Nobody just makes terrible point after terrible point about multiple sports on such a consistent basis. You have to be doing this intentionally.

Oh...it's a terrible opinion

Mikan (7 championships)
Schayes 29th in rebounding, 12 time all-star 6 time NBA first team, 19,000 points
Archibald led the league in scoring and assist's changed the position
Daniels 2X ABA MVP, 3X ABA champion
Nate Thurmond 11th all-time in rebounding, 7X all-star
Alex English top 20 scorer of all-time

Sorry those are "bad" opinions but recency bias is a bitch learn your NBA history

[marLeY baLL]

https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/361/903/95881184_original.jpg?1282800442

[dankok8]

Oh...it's a terrible opinion

Mikan (7 championships)
Schayes 29th in rebounding, 12 time all-star 6 time NBA first team, 19,000 points
Archibald led the league in scoring and assist's changed the position
Daniels 2X ABA MVP, 3X ABA champion
Nate Thurmond 11th all-time in rebounding, 7X all-star
Alex English top 20 scorer of all-time

Sorry those are "bad" opinions but recency bias is a bitch learn your NBA history

We excluded Mikan from the list because this is a shot clock era list. Otherwise he's definitely in. Schayes is a good choice. Archibald had a stupidly short prime but you could argue him. Daniels was an ABA player... I think I'd have Artis Gilmore ahead of him but neither is a top 50 all timer. Gilmore came in the NBA and was an all-star caliber player but never a superstar. And Daniels was worse than Artis. Nate Thurmond is a decent choice. I see him and Dwight as a toss-up. Alex English is a terrible choice though. No way he gets in over any of the guys you want to remove. That one is a tough sell.

[SouBeachTalents]

We excluded Mikan from the list because this is a shot clock era list. Otherwise he's definitely in. Schayes is a good choice. Archibald had a stupidly short prime but you could argue him. Daniels was an ABA player... I think I'd have Artis Gilmore ahead of him but neither is a top 50 all timer. Gilmore came in the NBA and was an all-star caliber player but never a superstar. And Daniels was worse than Artis. Nate Thurmond is a decent choice. I see him and Dwight as a toss-up. Alex English is a terrible choice though. No way he gets in over any of the guys you want to remove. That one is a tough sell.
Forget even thinking those guys are top 50, in addition to claiming Mel Daniels & Alex English were top 50 players, he said Pippen, Nash & Drexler should be bumped out of the list for them. Indefensibly stupid :lol

[dankok8]

Forget even thinking those guys are top 50, in addition to claiming Mel Daniels & Alex English were top 50 players, he said Pippen, Nash & Drexler should be bumped out of the list for them. Indefensibly stupid :lol

Yep Pippen and Nash not top 50 is just indefensible. I can see Drexler miss out maybe.

[L.Kizzle]

#25 - Scottie Pippen
#38 - Steve Nash
#42 - Clyde Drexler
#43 - Russell Westbrook
#47 - Gary Payton
#50 - Dwight Howard

It's an okay list but I would take those guys off and put on

George Mikan
Dolph Schayes
Nate Archibald
Mel Daniels
Nate Thurmond
Alex English

Very interested in seeing if Russ would still be on that list after this year
Westbrook is in season 14. He's already accomplished more than most of the guys you have listed?
And Alex English wasn't on the original 50, 25 years ago how is he on this one?

[La Frescobaldi]

No list is valid without Bob McAdoo.

He was better than half those guys.

Walton criminally underrated. It’s felonious.

Nobody on this board watched bball in the ‘70s that is flagrant foul obvious

[John8204]

Forget even thinking those guys are top 50, in addition to claiming Mel Daniels & Alex English were top 50 players, he said Pippen, Nash & Drexler should be bumped out of the list for them. Indefensibly stupid :lol

Nash isn't in my top ten of PG's.

Drexler is okay but much like Scottie he was always a 2 to an all-time great and never really cared for them.

https://www.sporcle.com/games/ec2tc3/nba-yearly-top-10-scorers-1980s
https://www.sporcle.com/games/ec2tc3/nba-yearly-top-10-scorers-1990s

Scottie was only a top ten scorerer once in his entire career, Drexler 3 times..English had twice as much as the two combined

[John8204]

Westbrook is in season 14. He's already accomplished more than most of the guys you have listed?
And Alex English wasn't on the original 50, 25 years ago how is he on this one?

I think certain generations of players got passed over when they made those lists, I think the 80's and 00's players got screwed over a bit.

[La Frescobaldi]

I think certain generations of players got passed over when they made those lists, I think the 80's and 00's players got screwed over a bit.

The Top 50 was announced in 1996 so the 00s was still the future.

Leaving McAdoo out was a disgusting spectacle and seeing ish do it again is even worse because it could and should have been fixed.

[L.Kizzle]

The Top 50 was announced in 1996 so the 00s was still the future.

Leaving McAdoo out was a disgusting spectacle and seeing ish do it again is even worse because it could and should have been fixed.
They were so locked in to get (only) Dominique a selection.

[La Frescobaldi]

They were so locked in to get (only) Dominique a selection.

Old@$$ Mac on Lakers for limited minutes was more basketball player than dw .

In his days with Buffalo McAdoo was fearsome to behold.

[gengiskhan]

fk that list.

Hakeem is #6.
Bird is #5

Bird is literally Top 5. Not a number below it. Fact!

Drexler at #42 is a joke.

also,

Kobe is more like #13 behind Moses. Fact!

Kobe is no way #11. never ahead of Moses or Dr. J.

[1987_Lakers]

This project was fun. I remember Wilt vs Russell was very close for the #4 spot. Wilt had the lead early on, then many including myself voted Russell for him to take the spot.

McHale vs Hayes for the #44 spot went on for a while. Voting for #44 ended up in a tie so we had to make a separate McHale vs Hayes thread to settle it, which also took a long time, it was close.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499160-Higher-All-Time-Elvin-Hayes-or-Kevin-McHale

[L.Kizzle]

This project was fun. I remember Wilt vs Russell was very close for the #4 spot. Wilt had the lead early on, then many including myself voted Russell for him to take the spot.

McHale vs Hayes for the #44 spot went on for a while. Voting for #44 ended up in a tie so we had to make a separate McHale vs Hayes thread to settle it, which also took a long time, it was close.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499160-Higher-All-Time-Elvin-Hayes-or-Kevin-McHale

People really thought Kevin McHale was better than Elvin Hayes.

[Phoenix]

Is it time to do another top 50 list?

[SouBeachTalents]

Is it time to do another top 50 list?
Jokic not being there is a pretty glaring omission :lol

I'd be down to do another list.

[Phoenix]

Jokic not being there is a pretty glaring omission :lol

I'd be down to do another list.

Funny enough that's the first name that came to mind.

[L.Kizzle]

Jokic not being there is a pretty glaring omission :lol

I'd be down to do another list.

List was done in 2021, why would he be there?

[SouBeachTalents]

List was done in 2021, why would he be there?
I was clearly talking about in the context of 2025, I really shouldn't have had to spell that out for you.

[John8204]

I think at this point you could do a top 100....in order of ommissions

George Mikan, Nikoli Jokic, Luka Doncic, Tiny Archibald, Paul Arizin, Paul Pierce, Dennis Rodman, Nate Thurmond, James Worthy, Reggie Miller, Pete Maravich, Alex English, Dan Issel, Bob McAdoo, Damian Lillard, Dolph Schayes, Wes Unseld, Ray Allen, Sam Jones, Tracy McGrady, Robert Parish, Mel Daniels, Hal Greer, Dikembe Mutombo, Anthony Davis, Vern Mikkelsen, Chris Mullin, Kyrie Irving, Adrian Dantley, Sidney Moncrief, Chris Webber, Jayson Tatum, Grant Hill, Jim Pollard, Dennis Johnson, Earl Monroe, Mitch Richmond, Jack Twyman, Klay Thompson, Maurice Stokes, Alonzo Mourning, Slater Martin, Neil Johnston, Joe Dumars, Tony Parker, Chris Bosh, Glen Rice, Artis Gilmore, Bobby Jones, Joe Fulks, Dave Buscherre, Billy Cunningham,

[Axe]

By the end of his career, joker will likely get rated higher than someone like dwight howard.


You have to be a gimmick account.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827668&dateline=1624237688&type=thumb (https://i.ibb.co/RPktct9/IMG-20241018-113551.jpg)

[Full Court]

Full Court's so deep inside this stinky idiot's head that I've got him throwing bitch fits even when I'm not posting. :roll:



Not only does Axe

Smell like a stinky rectum

But he's also very high

On the autism spectrum


:lol So true.