Revisited factual evidence insidehoops is a message board for retards

[HunterSThompson]

Revisited ISH top "11":

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant


reality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKTgAN1l_6E&ab_channel=EurohoopsTV



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ind4Kd2GkhY&ab_channel=SwoleReaper


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeUQhhrVtsM

more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z94Ld58zyK0&ab_channel=LQG

more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCk7pm8zV4k&ab_channel=HandlesUP



the fact that everyone puts kobe ahead of lebron and you retards put lebron 2nd and kobe 11th totally disqualifies this forum and realgm and any other bran stan circle jerk site. you guys still watch games regularly. kobe fans have families or just moved on like stalker4life. i might be the only kobe fan here. we aren't represented equally so this isn't a scientific vote. its just a majority fan rep list and kobe is hated by the guys who like lebron so thats why this trash list separates kobe and lebron by 10 spots when thats all people talk about.

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs kareem

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs russell

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs magic

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs bird

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs wilt


enough of this nonsense. they are joined at the hip all time and you can either put kobe and lebron 2nd and 3rd or 10th and 11th. theres no way on earth they're separated by 10 spots


this is clearly evidence that the people who post here are retarded.


re·tard·ed

/rəˈtärdəd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
OFFENSIVE•DATED
less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.
OFFENSIVE
very foolish or stupid.

- Definitions from Oxford Languages




if you are reading this. odds are you are retarded



https://c.tenor.com/0VE-xshse7MAAAAd/quantum-leap-im-retarded.gif

[HunterSThompson]

https://thejasminebrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/576E0285-9582-47C5-8AF0-6FCF7E067038.jpeg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX_bMKjX0AI2vPJ.jpg

https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf2.myportfolio.com/63fdee974c7cca6c8ec00772bb57bec2/3fef18d5-ed1e-4e92-8f12-32e49dd698db_rw_1920.jpg?h=58ad710e17d99f68d8fa32a da067f653

https://heatnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/image-3-e1616810080851.jpeg


you're all retards lmao

[HunterSThompson]

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTI2Mjk3NTAzNTA3ODQw/2157889318001_4775924780001_dirk-nowitzki-top-5jpg.jpg

https://2kgamer.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/optimized/3X/9/d/9d61ebdffe357b2d57eb9bf9b433f9321ddd0862_2_505x500 .jpeg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BXjJhp_u6Lc/maxresdefault.jpg

you're all retards lol

[HunterSThompson]

https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/cb8db4ca0a77ab1b7221670f80b6f4ae9e4814d232ed6d9373 feaa0a360953bd_1.jpg


again.. you're all retards

[Nilocon165]

I agree with the title but this is a meltdown

[Shogon]

Basically every single ex player cited in the OP that responded to that question in any detail besides "rangz" just started talking about individual scoring, as if that's all there is to basketball.

lol.

The amount of ignorance, even in the company of a bunch of fantastic historical players, is astounding.

Kobe Bryant flat out is not in the discussion with LeBron James as a 5 on 5 NBA basketball player. Point blank period. There is no way to sugarcoat it. That ship sailed years and years and years ago while Kobe was still in the league. That convo basically ended in 2009 despite the Lakers winning the title that year. And it was completely buried by the end of 2013.

The NBA is not a 1 on 1 contest. It never has been, it never will be. Teams win championships, not individuals. There's more to basketball than individual scoring.

OP is gay.

[HunterSThompson]

Basically every single ex player cited in the OP that responded to that question in any detail besides "rangz" just started talking about individual scoring, as if that's all there is to basketball.

lol.

The amount of ignorance, even in the company of a bunch of fantastic historical players, is astounding.

Kobe Bryant flat out is not in the discussion with LeBron James as a 5 on 5 NBA basketball player. Point blank period. There is no way to sugarcoat it. That ship sailed years and years and years ago while Kobe was still in the league. That convo basically ended in 2009. And it was completely buried by the end of 2013.

The NBA is not a 1 on 1 contest. It never has been, it never will be. Teams win championships, not individuals.

OP is gay.

do you honestly think people just go by "rangz" when talking about kobe

seriously? its about a combination of skill/respect/accomplishments/impact on the game. you're being ignorant on purpose to deflect reality

stop lying to yourself and accept that kobe is a top 5-6 player ever along with lebron. jesus h christ you're pathetic

do you see me dropping lebron to 11-12th or 14th

i'm not a retard like you. i know how someone is looked at and i won't lie to myself because i'm not insecure

[HunterSThompson]

I agree with the title but this is a meltdown

tired of pretending to enjoy this place. i feel so embarrassed posting here. if there was another place that didn't have me perma banned i would go there

[SouBeachTalents]

Ignoring Kenny's now 3 month meltdown over Kobe not being ranked top 10, it's honestly amazing how garbage so many of these players all time lineups are. Virtually none of them give the slightest consideration to things like shooting/spacing/cohesion/defense, with the worst offenders being Shaq and Wade putting Jordan, Kobe AND Iverson in the same lineup :lol Also, not a single one had Larry Bird, legitimately the most portable top 10 player.

[HunterSThompson]

Ignoring Kenny's now 3 month meltdown over Kobe not being ranked top 10, it's honestly amazing how garbage so many of these players all time lineups are. Virtually none of them give the slightest consideration to things like shooting/spacing/cohesion/defense, with the worst offenders being Shaq and Wade putting Jordan, Kobe AND Iverson in the same lineup :lol Also, not a single one had Larry Bird, legitimately the most portable top 10 player.


you know a starting 5 is different from a top 5 right. maybe they want a scorer at PG over a playmaker cause its all isolation guys anyway

personally i would go with kobe and mike in the back court

that doesn't mean i think kobe is a better point guard than magic

[HunterSThompson]

this is why kobe is inarguably a top 5 player ever. he has a top 3 share as the goat among the player vote

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3qo5FuXkAAZrTE.jpg

[Axe]

Op is a retard

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/28rJMwxP/1583807237555.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

Op is a retard

wrong. i agree with everyone in nba history about kobes ranking.

you on the other hand go with this guy from realgm who came up with a formula on backpicks that favors more all around statistics

https://c.tenor.com/fH5ftSVwtooAAAAC/southpark-videogames.gif


retard

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

I feel the same way when you put that rapist over kawhi but you don't see me bitching and crying about it

[Axe]

wrong. i agree with everyone in nba history about kobes ranking.

you on the other hand go with this guy from realgm who came up with a formula on backpicks that favors more all around statistics

https://c.tenor.com/fH5ftSVwtooAAAAC/southpark-videogames.gif


retard
Meltdown

[hateraid]

reality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKTgAN1l_6E&ab_channel=EurohoopsTV



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ind4Kd2GkhY&ab_channel=SwoleReaper


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeUQhhrVtsM

more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z94Ld58zyK0&ab_channel=LQG

more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCk7pm8zV4k&ab_channel=HandlesUP



the fact that everyone puts kobe ahead of lebron and you retards put lebron 2nd and kobe 11th totally disqualifies this forum and realgm and any other bran stan circle jerk site. you guys still watch games regularly. kobe fans have families or just moved on like stalker4life. i might be the only kobe fan here. we aren't represented equally so this isn't a scientific vote. its just a majority fan rep list and kobe is hated by the guys who like lebron so thats why this trash list separates kobe and lebron by 10 spots when thats all people talk about.

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs kareem

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs russell

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs magic

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs bird

nobody here is arguing lebron or kobe vs wilt


enough of this nonsense. they are joined at the hip all time and you can either put kobe and lebron 2nd and 3rd or 10th and 11th. theres no way on earth they're separated by 10 spots


this is clearly evidence that the people who post here are retarded.






if you are reading this. odds are you are retarded



https://c.tenor.com/0VE-xshse7MAAAAd/quantum-leap-im-retarded.gif

That's fair and balanced

[Phoenix]

The same person impersonating Kobe's spirit for 3 months is the same one speaking about the retardation of others, completely straight-faced and unironically. This same individual also speaks incessantly about leaving the site, has his wish to do so facilitated via numerous bans( and unlike other retards like 3ball and HBK, he doesn't even get UNBANNED 2 days after), and then creates new obvious alts to rinse and repeat. Can't blame him, the site is run so hilariously poor that nutcases like this flock here.

[TheCorporation]

The same person impersonating Kobe's spirit for 3 months is the same one speaking about the retardation of others, completely straight-faced and unironically. This same individual also speaks incessantly about leaving the site, has his wish to do so facilitated via numerous bans( and unlike other retards like 3ball and HBK, he doesn't even get UNBANNED 2 days after), and then creates new obvious alts to rinse and repeat. Can't blame him, the site is run so hilariously poor that nutcases like this flock here.

:lol Phoenix with that Grade-A ether :cheers:

[Full Court]

Kobe is fringe top ten. Get over it, OP.

[bison]

What a normal thread to make at 11 pm on a Friday night.

[HunterSThompson]

i just bought a 4th lebron rookie for 5 grand. this is called being objective. i'm cheering him on at this point. i don't have any insecurities. i say hes a top 5-6 player ever and THATS called being objective. because its not about media awards. its about respect and how they imprinted the game of basketball and whether or not millions of people say someone is the goat or in the discussion

those guys are jordan, wilt, kareem, russell, kobe and lebron

nobody else has that kind of support. you're all simplifying it too much with media awards and not looking at skills/respect/impact + awards/stats

everything is factored and some day durant might be in that convo with only 1 league mvp. because hes getting overlooked just like kobe was most years. he might be the most skilled player ever offensively

[Johnny32]

russell isn't top 5 all time and neither is kobe, sry.

mj
lbj
kareem
magic
wilt

[HunterSThompson]

russell isn't top 5 all time and neither is kobe, sry.

mj
lbj
kareem
magic
wilt

stupid. millions have russell and kobe in the goat discussion. your own personal biased opinionated criteria doesn't matter

its about majority opinion


this isn't a communist dictatorship where only 1 selective group of people decide shit

[HunterSThompson]

kobe is arguably the most skilled player ever. he has every single move with both hands from any distance over any kind of defense and was at that elite level for the 2nd longest period of time out of any player ever and won as much as anyone but 3 other guys in the discussion. and has more support for goat than anyone but 2 other people

it is inarguable that kobe is top 5.

that is a fact whether it rubs you people the wrong way or not

[hateraid]

This suspiciously smells like Justin

[Johnny32]

kobe is arguably the most skilled player ever. he has every single move with both hands from any distance over any kind of defense and was at that elite level for the 2nd longest period of time out of any player ever and won as much as anyone but 3 other guys in the discussion. and has more support for goat than anyone but 2 other people

it is inarguable that kobe is top 5.

that is a fact whether it rubs you people the wrong way or not

kobe is skilled but inefficient because of his overconfidence in his own ability. which led him to making dumb decisions like shooting over multiple defenders instead of making the correct basketball play. his defense is also grossly overrated. far too aggressive on the ball (much like jordan)...this style wouldn't work in today's much more skilled lg.

[Phoenix]

kobe is arguably the most skilled player ever. he has every single move with both hands from any distance over any kind of defense and was at that elite level for the 2nd longest period of time out of any player ever and won as much as anyone but 3 other guys in the discussion. and has more support for goat than anyone but 2 other people



Kobe isn't winning the first 3 titles without Shaq so as the clear-cut, undisputed best player and driving force on a team, he won twice. If he was the clear-cut best player on all 5 title teams, the conversation would be different. You make these comments and literally act like Shaq wasn't there alongside him. You simply can't replace Shaq with a lesser center, have Kobe be the best player, and the Lakers 3peat. It's just not happening.

[hateraid]

i just bought a 4th lebron rookie for 5 grand. this is called being objective. i'm cheering him on at this point. i don't have any insecurities. i say hes a top 5-6 player ever and THATS called being objective. because its not about media awards. its about respect and how they imprinted the game of basketball and whether or not millions of people say someone is the goat or in the discussion

those guys are jordan, wilt, kareem, russell, kobe and lebron

nobody else has that kind of support. you're all simplifying it too much with media awards and not looking at skills/respect/impact + awards/stats

everything is factored and some day durant might be in that convo with only 1 league mvp. because hes getting overlooked just like kobe was most years. he might be the most skilled player ever offensively

This seems fair and balanced

[HunterSThompson]

kobe is skilled but inefficient because of his overconfidence in his own ability. which led him to making dumb decisions like shooting over multiple defenders instead of making the correct basketball play. his defense is also grossly overrated. far too aggressive on the ball (much like jordan)...this style wouldn't work in today's much more skilled lg.


this is totally and factually inaccurate


from 1996 to 2013 kobe had a 1.30 point per shot average

15 years. same as Jordan's 15 year career


kobe was in fact very efficient

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe isn't winning the first 3 titles without Shaq so as the clear-cut, undisputed best player and driving force on a team, he won twice. If he was the clear-cut best player on all 5 title teams, the conversation would be different. You make these comments and literally act like Shaq wasn't there alongside him. You simply can't replace Shaq with a lesser center, have Kobe be the best player, and the Lakers 3peat. It's just not happening.

kobe proved all he needed was a gasol so from 2001 onward he never needed shaq cause he was as good then as he ever was. 4 of his rings are inarguably deserved and you're just a hater if you think otherwise


his 2000 ring at most can be looked at ad a sidekick ring. if you think 4 rings ain't enough then lebrons shit outa luck

[Johnny32]

this is totally and factually inaccurate


from 1996 to 2013 kobe had a 1.30 point per shot average

15 years. same as Jordan's 15 year career


kobe was in fact very efficient

pps doesn't count fta as a shot therefore it's highly flawed.

[Johnny32]

the best stat for scoring efficiency is obviously ts%.

playoffs cuz who cares about the reg season.

kobe - 54.1%
jordan - 56.8%
lebron - 58.3%
durant - 60.0%

you can claim kobe is the most skilled player ever but if it doesn't carry over to efficient on court production in the playoffs...who cares.

[Phoenix]

kobe proved all he needed was a gasol so from 2001 onward he never needed shaq cause he was as good then as he ever was. 4 of his rings are inarguably deserved and you're just a hater if you think otherwise


his 2000 ring at most can be looked at ad a sidekick ring. if you think 4 rings ain't enough then lebrons shit outa luck

The first fallacy is equating 2001 and 2002 Kobe with 2009 and 2010 Kobe. 2009 Kobe was better equipped from an experience standpoint to be the best player on a title team with a 'Pau Gasol' 2nd option, even if skillwise he was good enough by 2001. You're also equating the early 2000s West with the late 2000's west. A 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option in 2001 isn't getting past the Spurs, and in 2002 isn't getting past the Kings( considering WITH Shaq the series went 7 with some questionable calls at the end). So what Kobe was able to do in 2009 and 2010 with the team he had doesn't mean he achieves the same results in 2001 and 2002.

[HunterSThompson]

pps doesn't count fta as a shot therefore it's highly flawed.

drawing fouls was one of kobes biggest attributes. how can you say that isn't part of how he contributed to his efficiency. when he pump fakes and gets a guy off his feet or drives and gets contract it counts as a shot attempt when he doesn't get the call. right? he's taking a more difficult shot to invite contact for a reason. why only count the negative impact of those attempts and not the positive outcomes


again .. this is why you're all retards.

[SouBeachTalents]

OP's entire argument hinges on the notion that popularity=greatest. I can assure you, based on virtually every other medium, film, bands/singers, tv shows, songs etc., that most popular does not equal best. In fact, the most popular in those areas are usually lowest common denominator and generic.

Tim Duncan was legitimately the least popular NBA superstar I've ever seen. You never saw him in commercials, I bet almost nobody outside of San Antonio owned a Tim Duncan jersey or poster, and even in his playing days I bet most American's couldn't identify him by picture or even heard of him. And you know what, none of that means anything. Tim Duncan is a consensus top 10 player of all time. I bet the same could be said of Hakeem now too, and he's also consistently in the top 10.

I understand you have to 3ball this argument and hedge your entire bet on popularity, because that's virtually the only argument Kobe has for top 5, but unfortunately for you, no matter how many threads or posts you make about it, popularity does not equal greatest. If it does, you have to also concede Rihanna & Taylor Swift are top 10 musicians of all time, and American Idol is the greatest tv show of the 2000's.

[HunterSThompson]

the best stat for scoring efficiency is obviously ts%.

playoffs cuz who cares about the reg season.

kobe - 54.1%
jordan - 56.8%
lebron - 58.3%
durant - 60.0%

you can claim kobe is the most skilled player ever but if it doesn't carry over to efficient on court production in the playoffs...who cares.



kobes true shooting percentage from 1996-97 to 2012-13 was 56%

15 years same as jordan. the 1 leg post Achilles 3 year stretch is why his stuff dropped.

for his entire actual career he was almost just as efficient as MJ

[Johnny32]

drawing fouls was one of kobes biggest attributes. how can you say that isn't part of how he contributed to his efficiency. when he pump fakes and gets a guy off his feet or drives and gets contract it counts as a shot attempt when he doesn't get the call. right? he's taking a more difficult shot to invite contact for a reason. why only count the negative impact of those attempts and not the positive outcomes


again .. this is why you're all retards.

lol i didn't say ft's shouldn't count in scoring efficiency. the problem is two fts is a possession and should count as a shot. yes, you're a retard.

[HunterSThompson]

OP's entire argument hinges on the notion that popularity=greatest. I can assure you, based on virtually every other medium, film, bands/singers, tv shows, songs etc., that most popular does not equal best. In fact, the most popular in those areas are usually lowest common denominator and generic.

Tim Duncan was legitimately the least popular NBA superstar I've ever seen. You never saw him in commercials, I bet almost nobody outside of San Antonio owned a Tim Duncan jersey or poster, and even in his playing days I bet most American's couldn't identify him by picture or even heard of him. And you know what, none of that means anything. Tim Duncan is a consensus top 10 player of all time. I bet the same could be said of Hakeem now too, and he's also consistently in the top 10.

I understand you have to 3ball this argument and hedge your entire bet on popularity, because that's virtually the only argument Kobe has for top 5, but unfortunately for you, no matter how many threads or posts you make about it, popularity does not equal greatest. If it does, you have to also concede Rihanna & Taylor Swift are top 10 musicians of all time, and American Idol is the greatest tv show of the 2000's.

sorry but player votes are no less a "popularity" contest than any message board vote.


that's all we have. the player vote is less biased however because players don't pick sides and hate on another legend like hardcore stans do

the same guys who have kobe top 5 mostly have lebron top 5 so they're not some retard like you

[Phoenix]

kobes true shooting percentage from 1996-97 to 2012-13 was 56%

15 years same as jordan. the 1 leg post Achilles 3 year stretch is why his stuff dropped.

for his entire actual career he was almost just as efficient as MJ

MJ's true shooting from 84 to 98 was 58%. If you're going to arbitrarily remove Kobe's last 3 years which tanked his averages, than in fairness you'd need to do the same for Jordan's Wizard's years tanking his.

[Johnny32]

kobes true shooting percentage from 1996-97 to 2012-13 was 56%

15 years same as jordan. the 1 leg post Achilles 3 year stretch is why his stuff dropped.

for his entire actual career he was almost just as efficient as MJ

that's kobe's playoffs ts%.. your excuses are irrelevant. try reading next time.

[HunterSThompson]

lol i didn't say ft's shouldn't count in scoring efficiency. the problem is two fts is a possession and should count as a shot. yes, you're a retard.

then if you did that it wouldn't just negatively effect kobe. it would also negatively effect jordan

theyre both around the same point per shot and true shooting percentage for their first 15 years so if you counted their free throw trips as shots they would still both be around the same but lower

[HunterSThompson]

that's kobe's playoffs ts%.. your excuses are irrelevant. try reading next time.

kobe battled through a multitude of injuries and illnesses in rhe playoffs and his era had lower perimeter efficiency cause refs let everything go

kobes finals opponents all shot worse too.

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's



jordan didn't really become mainly an outside shooter till his 2nd three peat and his numbers dipped in the playoffs as well. that was just the era


and btw I know it's you lakers1987. you're such a little homo with a crush on me. that you have to use alts to get my attention since I blocked your ass

[Phoenix]

then if you did that it wouldn't just negatively effect kobe. it would also negatively effect jordan

theyre both around the same point per shot and true shooting percentage for their first 15 years so if you counted their free throw trips as shots they would still both be around the same but lower

True shooting is a cute little way to hide field goal percentage amidst 3 point percentage and free throws, but we know better. MJ's 84-98 field goal percentage was 51%, Kobe's was 45% from 96-2013, it was also the exact same from his prime years of 2001-2013, or we can do 2001-2010 and it was 46%. We can go any direction you want.

[Johnny32]

kobe battled through a multitude of injuries and illnesses in rhe playoffs and his era had lower perimeter efficiency cause refs let everything go

kobes finals opponents all shot worse too.

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's



jordan didn't really become mainly an outside shooter till his 2nd three peat and his numbers dipped in the playoffs as well. that was just the era


and btw I know it's you lakers1987. you're such a little homo with a crush on me. that you have to use alts to get my attention since I blocked your ass

kobe being injury prone isn't a valid excuse, sry.

[HunterSThompson]

MJ's true shooting from 84 to 98 was 58%. If you're going to arbitrarily remove Kobe's last 3 years which tanked his averages, than in fairness you'd need to do the same for Jordan's Wizard's years tanking his.

wizards jordan was light-years ahead of post Achilles kobe..


we're talking about allstar level compared to literally the worst player in nba history

[Phoenix]

The first fallacy is equating 2001 and 2002 Kobe with 2009 and 2010 Kobe. 2009 Kobe was better equipped from an experience standpoint to be the best player on a title team with a 'Pau Gasol' 2nd option, even if skillwise he was good enough by 2001. You're also equating the early 2000s West with the late 2000's west. A 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option in 2001 isn't getting past the Spurs, and in 2002 isn't getting past the Kings( considering WITH Shaq the series went 7 with some questionable calls at the end). So what Kobe was able to do in 2009 and 2010 with the team he had doesn't mean he achieves the same results in 2001 and 2002.

Kenny? Which 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option are you giving Kobe in 2001 and 2002 to win the chips those seasons?

[Phoenix]

wizards jordan was light-years ahead of post Achilles kobe..


we're talking about allstar level compared to literally the worst player in nba history

And as I said above, we can tailor the years to whatever metric you want to get Kobe closer to MJ. In terms of field goal percentage, MJ shot a whole 5% higher regardless of what time period you want to include for Kobe to muddy the waters. True shooting percentage is what one uses when you want to obscure all the bits of data that make up that number.

[HunterSThompson]

kobe being injury prone isn't a valid excuse, sry.

actually the officiating and injuries are a valid excuse. because what other excuse can be made


those are in fact the best excuses you can make


he had sprained ankles, torn shoulders and knees, broken hands, 100 surgeries

literally wore casts during games

he played entire series with food poisoning


please don't try and discredit this. had he sat out all these series his numbers go up but then his rings go down. one of the reasons players hold kobe in such a high regard is cause of his toughness and competitive nature


again. this is why you're a retard

you're proving me right after every post racoon boy

[HunterSThompson]

And as I said above, we can tailor the years to whatever metric you want to get Kobe closer to MJ. In terms of field goal percentage, MJ shot a whole 5% higher regardless of what time period you want to include for Kobe to muddy the waters. True shooting percentage is what one uses when you want to obscure all the bits of data that make up that number.

sorry but I think a 15 year healthy run compared to another guys 15 year healthy run is more fair than comparing just a guys prime to a guys entire career or a guys healthy career to a guy with a 3 year retirement tour on one leg

people were saying jordan was in rhe mvp discussion during the first half of the season with Washington

kobes Washington years are ones like 2011 or 2012 where he was already breaking down cause of mileage


people forget Kobe was 1st team all nba in year 17

[HunterSThompson]

Kenny? Which 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option are you giving Kobe in 2001 and 2002 to win the chips those seasons?

Webber.. put Kobe on the kings and they win easily

give shaq peja

[SouBeachTalents]

sorry but player votes are no less a "popularity" contest than any message board vote.


that's all we have. the player vote is less biased however because players don't pick sides and hate on another legend like hardcore stans do

the same guys who have kobe top 5 mostly have lebron top 5 so they're not some retard like you
This is just further proof you have no idea what the fck you're talking about, I've seen players have agendas constantly. Do you think it's a coincidence guys like Isiah & Laimbeer have LeBron as the GOAT over Jordan. Or that Oscar was pushing for Westbrook to win MVP last year due to averaging a triple double. Or that Jordan said he ranks Kobe over LeBron because 5 is greater than 3.

Just look at the front page. Those guys made legitimately some of the shittiest lineups I've ever seen. They could choose any players in history, and they have a backcourt of Jordan, Kobe & Iverson :oldlol: Or look at Dr. J. His top 5 consists of Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West & Baylor. He says he made the list at 15 years old and will never change it.

I'm supposed to take such stupidity/ignorance seriously because they used to play? All you're doing is appealing to authority, which leaves you to defend terrible arguments made by former players. If anything, players are even more capable of bias due to protecting their own legacy, or personal animus from their playing days.

[Johnny32]

actually the officiating and injuries are a valid excuse. because what other excuse can be made


those are in fact the best excuses you can make


he had sprained ankles, torn shoulders and knees, broken hands, 100 surgeries

literally wore casts during games

he played entire series with food poisoning


please don't try and discredit this. had he sat out all these series his numbers go up but then his rings go down. one of the reasons players hold kobe in such a high regard is cause of his toughness and competitive nature


again. this is why you're a retard

you're proving me right after every post racoon boy

no one is 100% after an 82 game season. the only difference is kobe was obsessed with trying to prove his toughness and made sure everyone knew about every little nagging injury he had. and of couse cuck's like you ate that shit up. it's embarrassing honestly.

[HunterSThompson]

no one is 100% after an 82 game season. the only difference is kobe was obsessed with trying to prove his toughness and made sure everyone knew about every little nagging injury he had. and of couse cuck's like you ate that shit up. it's embarrassing honestly.

soreness and fatigue isn't the same as surgeries, casts, hospital visits

sorry but kobe touched it out a lot of times during the post season and probly saved shaq 2 rings cause of it. then another 2 with gasol. if he was lebron he just sits out and forfeits those 4 titles and calls it a year

[Phoenix]

Webber.. put Kobe on the kings and they win easily

give shaq peja

So you're equating Pau with a 27/11 MVP level performer? You're saying THAT's the caliber of player Kobe had in 2009 and 2010? As cute as that is, I wouldn't be too sure about Kobe/Webber beating Shaq/Peja regardless of how hilariously off that comparison is.

[HunterSThompson]

This is just further proof you have no idea what the fck you're talking about, I've seen players have agendas constantly. Do you think it's a coincidence guys like Isiah & Laimbeer have LeBron as the GOAT over Jordan. Or that Oscar was pushing for Westbrook to win MVP last year due to averaging a triple double. Or that Jordan said he ranks Kobe over LeBron because 5 is greater than 3.

Just look at the front page. Those guys made legitimately some of the shittiest lineups I've ever seen. They could choose any players in history, and they have a backcourt of Jordan, Kobe & Iverson :oldlol: Or look at Dr. J. His top 5 consists of Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West & Baylor. He says he made the list at 15 years old and will never change it.

I'm supposed to take such stupidity/ignorance seriously because they used to play? All you're doing is appealing to authority, which leaves you to defend terrible arguments made by former players. If anything, players are even more capable of bias due to protecting their own legacy, or personal animus from their playing days.

players might have an agenda that puts a guy 1 or 2 spots ahead. never 10 spots like the morons on ISH


and its usually an era bias. like old heads saying only guys from the 60s are the best. that's way different

[Phoenix]

sorry but I think a 15 year healthy run compared to another guys 15 year healthy run is more fair than comparing just a guys prime to a guys entire career or a guys healthy career to a guy with a 3 year retirement tour on one leg

people were saying jordan was in rhe mvp discussion during the first half of the season with Washington

kobes Washington years are ones like 2011 or 2012 where he was already breaking down cause of mileage


people forget Kobe was 1st team all nba in year 17

MJ wasn't healthy for half of 2002, and he was 40 years old in 2003. You know this and act like the rest of us don't. MJ 84-98, Kobe 2001-2010 or 2001-2013. Slice it however you like, he was considerably less efficient from the field so you're hiding that behind 'true shooting'. Let's not play these little games, if Kobe was shooting 48% or higher every year you would bullet point that. He never shot above 47%......ever.....in 20 seasons.

[Johnny32]

soreness and fatigue isn't the same as surgeries, casts, hospital visits

sorry but kobe touched it out a lot of times during the post season and probly saved shaq 2 rings cause of it. then another 2 with gasol. if he was lebron he just sits out and forfeits those 4 titles and calls it a year

in what fantasy world are you living in?

[HunterSThompson]

So you're equating Pau with a 27/11 MVP level performer? You're saying THAT's the caliber of player Kobe had in 2009 and 2010? As cute as that is, I wouldn't be too sure about Kobe/Webber beating Shaq/Peja regardless of how hilariously off that comparison is.

2003 kings could win with kobe as well when Webber wasn't as great

all kobe needs is a 20ppg sidekick and Webber would do that as second option all those years

[HunterSThompson]

in what fantasy world are you living in?

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the series in 2000 after the ankle injury and they lose

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the kings series in 2002 when he had food poisoning and they lose

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the 2009 and 2010 playoffs with a broken hand each time and they lose


this isn't fantasy. lebron sits out long periods of time just for elbow bruises, sprained ankles, pulled groins etc...

hes a *****. this is just one of many reasons players have Kobe ranked higher than lebron

[Phoenix]

2003 kings could win with kobe as well when Webber wasn't as great

all kobe needs is a 20ppg sidekick and Webber would do that as second option all those years

But we're talking about 2001 and 2002 Webber, his best seasons. And with that said, the Spurs took out Lakers with Shaq and Kobe......and you're saying that replacing Shaq with Webber changes the outcome of that series.

[Phoenix]

Shaq with Peja, Doug Christie, Bibby, Vlade, Bobby Jackson, Turkoglu or Kobe, Webber, Fox, Horry, Fisher, and Samaki Walker. Yeah, put Shaq on the block with his gravity and gameplan for having Peja on the wings with a 'pick your poison' 2 man game. Yeah, Kobe 'easily' wins this :lol

[HunterSThompson]

MJ wasn't healthy for half of 2002, and he was 40 years old in 2003. You know this and act like the rest of us don't. MJ 84-98, Kobe 2001-2010 or 2001-2013. Slice it however you like, he was considerably less efficient from the field so you're hiding that behind 'true shooting'. Let's not play these little games, if Kobe was shooting 48% or higher every year you would bullet point that. He never shot above 47%......ever.....in 20 seasons.

Jordan's wizard year is like kobes 2011 season like i said. slightly hobbled isn't the same as completely finished worse than dirt

[Phoenix]

Jordan's wizard year is like kobes 2011 season like i said. slightly hobbled isn't the same as completely finished worse than dirt

So 2011 Kobe at 32 a year off winning a title is like 39 year old Wizards Jordan after 3 years of retirement, fukked knees and a shooting hand impacted by getting sliced with a cigar cutter. Interesting...

[HunterSThompson]

Shaq with Peja, Doug Christie, Bibby, Vlade, Bobby Jackson, Turkoglu or Kobe, Webber, Fox, Horry, Fisher, and Samaki Walker. Yeah, put Shaq on the block with his gravity and gameplan for having Peja on the wings with a 'pick your poison' 2 man game. Yeah, Kobe 'easily' wins this :lol

Kobe and Webber beat shaq and Peja easily.. the others wouldn't even matter

shaq has never shown an ability to win with anything but a legendary sidekick saving his ass or carrying half the load

Kobe however is proven to be capable of winning with less than a superstar.

[HunterSThompson]

So 2011 Kobe at 32 a year off winning a title is like 39 year old Wizards Jordan. Interesting...

health wise yes. about the same hops and stamina. kobes knee that year was basically a 40 year olds

he could only play 30 mpg

2011 to 2013 were years 15, 16, 17.. those were meant to be the end of his career even without the achilles injury

all the other injuries had already caught up to him

[Johnny32]

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the series in 2000 after the ankle injury and they lose

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the kings series in 2002 when he had food poisoning and they lose

if Kobe was lebron he sits out the 2009 and 2010 playoffs with a broken hand each time and they lose


this isn't fantasy. lebron sits out long periods of time just for elbow bruises, sprained ankles, pulled groins etc...

hes a *****. this is just one of many reasons players have Kobe ranked higher than lebron

lebron has never missed a playoff gm in his career. again...what fantasy world are you living in?

[HunterSThompson]

lebron has never missed a playoff gm in his career. again...what fantasy world are you living in?

lebrons injuries all come during the season. he's usually healed up and ready to go.

but in 2019 when he "activated playoff mode" and failed to get the job done cause he wasn't fully healed.. what happened


and same for 2021. what happens when lebrons not 100%.


what happened in 2014 when lebron wasn't 100% the last 3 games of the finals


what happened when lebron had his hand issue in 2018


I think all these injuries were bogus and an excuse for his failures. but what we all know is there's only 2 realities

one where if lebrons hurt he sucks and loses and just can't grind it out of he's faking it

or where lebrons hurt and misses an extended period of time


either way he ain't kobe

[Phoenix]

Kobe and Webber beat shaq and Peja easily.. the others wouldn't even matter

shaq has never shown an ability to win with anything but a legendary sidekick saving his ass or carrying half the load

Kobe however is proven to be capable of winning with less than a superstar.

Nah boss. 1st, Webber isn't a 'Pau Gasol' lever sidekick. He was an 25/10 MVP level player in 2001 and 2002. Let's work on what an actual 'Pau Gasol' level sidekick in 2001/2002 would have been first. 2nd, you say Kobe in 2003 wins with a 'worse' Webber but he lost with Shaq. Put a bit more effort into these hypotheticals and then we can have a real conversation. I can tell you're trying, but the results aren't there.

[Phoenix]

health wise yes. about the same hops and stamina. kobes knee that year was basically a 40 year olds

he could only play 30 mpg

2011 to 2013 were years 15, 16, 17.. those were meant to be the end of his career even without the achilles injury

all the other injuries had already caught up to him

If you're trying to make any equation between 2011 Kobe and 2002 MJ, there is absolutely no case to be made for prime/peak MJ and prime/peak Kobe. We're not even talking skills, just the net end result in a 5 on 5 setting. Because Kobe was exponentially closer to his prime in 2011 than MJ was in 2002.

[Johnny32]

lebrons injuries all come during the season. he's usually healed up and ready to go.

makes sense considering lebron is far more clutch than kobe in the playoffs.

[Phoenix]

The early 2000s with the Kings, Spurs, Mavs and Blazers were a gauntlet. You aren't replacing Shaq with either a worse center( given the gulf between him and other bigmen at that point) or a 2nd option equal to Pau Gasol and winning titles. This is the same guy Kobe stans like Kenny like to downplay by speaking to his playoff record before joining the Lakers, but now we're supposed to believe that either having Gasol, or someone at his level, is all Kobe needed at PF in the early 2000's given how stacked the position was back then and how good the West was in general.

Just because Kobe in 2009 won with Gasol doesn't mean he's doing that in 2001 and 2002, and that's not even taking into account that 2009 Kobe was a more mature player and better poised than 2001 Kobe in terms of leading a championship team.

[HunterSThompson]

Nah boss. 1st, Webber isn't a 'Pau Gasol' lever sidekick. He was an 25/10 MVP level player in 2001 and 2002. Let's work on what an actual 'Pau Gasol' level sidekick in 2001/2002 would have been first. 2nd, you say Kobe in 2003 wins with a 'worse' Webber but he lost with Shaq. Put a bit more effort into these hypotheticals and then we can have a real conversation. I can tell you're trying, but the results aren't there.

kobe on the blazers with Rasheed wallace as his sidekick with quality role players also beats the lakers.

give shaq Steve Smith or bonzi wells.. he'll give him pippen for all I care. blazers in 6

[HunterSThompson]

If you're trying to make any equation between 2011 Kobe and 2002 MJ, there is absolutely no case to be made for prime/peak MJ and prime/peak Kobe. We're not even talking skills, just the net end result in a 5 on 5 setting. Because Kobe was exponentially closer to his prime in 2011 than MJ was in 2002.

2011 kobe was trash. his legs were shot. he needed experimental cartilage replacement surgery. it's very comparable

[HunterSThompson]

makes sense considering lebron is far more clutch than kobe in the playoffs.

only in series vs teams he knows he'll beat. how come he never has any game winners vs great teams. why is it when it's real competition he passes to George hill

[SouBeachTalents]

only in series vs teams he knows he'll beat. how come he never has any game winners vs great teams. why is it when it's real competition he passes to George hill
Where the hell are Kobe's game winners vs great teams :oldlol: His teammates without fail always hit the big shots

[999Guy]

you know a starting 5 is different from a top 5 right. maybe they want a scorer at PG over a playmaker cause its all isolation guys anyway

personally i would go with kobe and mike in the back court

that doesn't mean i think kobe is a better point guard than magicim glad this guy got to yapping to say the most retarded thing I can remember on this board in weeks

[HunterSThompson]

Where the hell are Kobe's game winners vs great teams :oldlol: His teammates without fail always hit the big shots

kobes entire career was spent facing great teams moron. hence the 24 teams with 50+ wins eliminated to lebrons 14

[SouBeachTalents]

kobes entire career was spent facing great teams moron. hence the 24 teams with 50+ wins eliminated to lebrons 14
And his entire career saw his teammates hitting all the big shots, while Kobe routinely bricked his.

[Phoenix]

kobe on the blazers with Rasheed wallace as his sidekick with quality role players also beats the lakers.

give shaq Steve Smith or bonzi wells.. he'll give him pippen for all I care. blazers in 6

You're too fixated on creating make believe teams around Shaq. Let's deal with what was....

Kobe with Rasheed in 2001 doesn't beat the Spurs. While Kobe had a great series, you still needed the gravity and defensive attention Shaq commanded inside on both Duncan and Robinson. Duncan and Robinson between them got 31 fouls, and defending who you reckon? Horace Grant? Mad dog Madsen? You also assume that without Shaq opening up things that Kobe still has the same great series. He'll get his numbers, but 33/7/7 on 51%? Doubt it but even if he did.... Rasheed was nice, but you're on some good ish if you think he's outplaying Duncan in a playoff series at the peak of his powers. Shaq still dropped 27/13 on Duncan and Robinson....Sheed ain't doing that. And, even if the Lakers still got past the Spurs? They may not beat the Sixers. Kobe didn't have a great finals( 25ppg on 41%), got outscored by Iverson, and didn't have Shaq dropping 33 and 15 on Mutombo to tilt the series definitively towards LA. Not having Shaq there puts much more pressure on Kobe in that series.

Kobe with Rasheed in 2002 doesn't beat the Kings, and I don't even need to go into the same level of detail as above. The Lakers barely got by the Kings with Shaq dropping 30/14. Rasheed didn't produce close to that so there's no logical reason to assume the Lakers win in that situation. It's cute that you think giving Kobe any ole decent 2nd option wins in 2001 and 2002.....but you're blinded by fanboyism.

[HunterSThompson]

im glad this guy got to yapping to say the most retarded thing I can remember on this board in weeks

so you think a team of isolation guys needs a ball pounding set up guy that's gonna tell people to sprint for fast breaks when all of them are half court isolation scorers

wouldn't another scorer/defender make more sense

magic is more suited for role players around him. for other superstars you want another scorer or defender or shooter. preferably all 3

[HunterSThompson]

You're too fixated on creating make believe teams around Shaq. Let's deal with what was....

Kobe with Rasheed in 2001 doesn't beat the Spurs. While Kobe had a great series, you still needed the gravity and defensive attention Shaq commanded inside on both Duncan and Robinson. Duncan and Robinson between them got 31 fouls, and defending who you reckon? Horace Grant? Mad dog Madsen? You also assume that without Shaq opening up things that Kobe still has the same great series. He'll get his numbers, but 33/7/7 on 51%? Doubt it but even if he did.... Rasheed was nice, but you're on some good ish if you think he's outplaying Duncan in a playoff series at the peak of his powers. Shaq still dropped 27/13 on Duncan and Robinson....Sheed ain't doing that. And, even if the Lakers still got past the Spurs? They may not beat the Sixers. Kobe didn't have a great finals( 25ppg on 41%), got outscored by Iverson, and didn't have Shaq dropping 33 and 15 on Mutombo to tilt the series definitively towards LA. Not having Shaq there puts much more pressure on Kobe in that series.

Kobe with Rasheed in 2002 doesn't beat the Kings, and I don't even need to go into the same level of detail as above. The Lakers barely got by the Kings with Shaq dropping 30/14. Rasheed didn't produce close to that so there's no logical reason to assume the Lakers win in that situation. It's cute that you think giving Kobe any ole decent 2nd option wins in 2001 and 2002.....but you're blinded by fanboyism.

kobe beat the spurs 4 out if 6 times and it shoulda been 5 out of 6 if horry hits even just one shot in that 2003 series


kobe on the blazers from 2000 to 2002 also three peats

shaq without Kobe or another kobe/wade level player goes nowhere

the end

[Phoenix]

2011 kobe was trash. his legs were shot. he needed experimental cartilage replacement surgery. it's very comparable

So was 2002 MJ if the comparison is what he was to his prime days. Neither player was close to their best but 2011 Kobe was closer to his prime than MJ was and definitely closer to his normal efficiency. You like TS%? He was 55% in both 2010, the year he won finals MVP and 55% in 2011, the year you claim he was trash. Now compare 2002 MJ efficiency against his prime years. Not even in the same universe.

[Phoenix]

kobe beat the spurs 4 out if 6 times and it shoulda been 5 out of 6 if horry hits even just one shot in that 2003 series


kobe on the blazers from 2000 to 2002 also three peats

shaq without Kobe or another kobe/wade level player goes nowhere

the end

3 of those times Shaq was on the team. You can say 'Kobe beat the Spurs' as much as you like. 2008 is the only year he wasn't rolling with an all-timer for those victories.

So put Kobe on the 2000 Blazers that took the Lakers to 7......and he wins? Amazing insight. How about we put Kobe on the 2001 Spurs or 2002 Kings. He'll win those too......in other words take the teams that probably win the title if the Lakers weren't there......then add Kobe. This is your argument, idiot.

Kobe without Shaq or a 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option( which in this very thread you equate to Chris Webber who was dropping 27/10) is a first round casualty blowing 3-1 leads in one year, and bitching about trading Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd another. On not making the playoffs period like in 2005

the end

[HunterSThompson]

3 of those times Shaq was on the team. You can say 'Kobe beat the Spurs' as much as you like. 2008 is the only year he wasn't rolling with an all-timer for those victories.

So put Kobe on the 2000 Blazers that took the Lakers to 7......and he wins? Amazing insight. How about we put Kobe on the 2001 Spurs or 2002 Kings. He'll win those too......in other words take the teams that probably win the title if the Lakers weren't there......then add Kobe. This is your argument, idiot.

Kobe without Shaq or a 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option( which in this very thread you equate to Chris Webber who was dropping 27/10) is a first round casualty blowing 3-1 leads in one year, and bitching about trading Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd another. On not making the playoffs period like in 2005

the end

kobe raped Duncan, Manu and Parker without Shaq. you forget 2008?

shaqs never beaten a team like that without another superstar sidekick


Kobe rose to a superstar level in 2000 vs Portland in game 7 just to get Shaq past them lmao


without that performance shaqs dream season is a failure


Shaq could never do shit with a gasol level sidekick. and he had better than that in Orlando, Phoenix and Cleveland

[Phoenix]

kobe raped Duncan, Manu and Parker without Shaq. you forget 2008?

shaqs never beaten a team like that without another superstar sidekick


Kobe rose to a superstar level in 2000 vs Portland in game 7 just to get Shaq past them lmao


without that performance shaqs dream season is a failure


Shaq could never do shit with a gasol level sidekick. and he had better than that in Orlando, Phoenix and Cleveland

Did I forget 2008? It was only in the first sentence you replied to, but I know you start frothing at the mouth and lose all comprehension when Kobe is the topic:


3 of those times Shaq was on the team. You can say 'Kobe beat the Spurs' as much as you like. 2008 is the only year he wasn't rolling with an all-timer for those victories.

So put Kobe on the 2000 Blazers that took the Lakers to 7......and he wins? Amazing insight. How about we put Kobe on the 2001 Spurs or 2002 Kings. He'll win those too......in other words take the teams that probably win the title if the Lakers weren't there......then add Kobe. This is your argument, idiot.

Kobe without Shaq or a 'Pau Gasol' level 2nd option( which in this very thread you equate to Chris Webber who was dropping 27/10) is a first round casualty blowing 3-1 leads in one year, and bitching about trading Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd another. On not making the playoffs period like in 2005

the end

Need anything else?

So recapping, Kobe as 'THE' man on his team beat Duncan once.....in 2008. The 2001 and 2002 victories had Shaq on the inside outplaying Duncan and Robinson while Kobe did his thing on the perimeter. 2004 weren't great years for either but Shaq was 23/15 on 64%, Kobe was 26/7/6 on 46%. Need a recap of the 2004 final output for each?

2nd recap, Kobe without Shaq or a top 5 PF in Gasol couldn't get out of the first round.

2001 season, Lakers were 11-3 without Kobe, a 79% win rate. 5-3 without Shaq, a 62% winrate.

Facts aren't concerned with your fanboy delirium.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Kobe playing today wouldn't even be a top 8 player in this era.

Kawhi, lebron, durant, curry, giannis are all easily better.

Trae young, luka doncic, embiid also would be better.

Kobe would be Devin booker. He's even worse then booker when he's not coached by daddy Phil

[HunterSThompson]

And his entire career saw his teammates hitting all the big shots, while Kobe routinely bricked his.

here's how I know kobe hit most of the big shots for the Lakers. because after the fisher, Horry shots and artest/gasol putbacks the rest were kobe since the Lakers obviously hit more than 3 or 4 clutch shots over 20 years and there ain't no way you morons would overlook any of the ones made by other guys. you make a point to remember every single time kobe had a teammate do anything good for him. and you can count them on one hand. after those kobe was the go to guy in the clutch. you know it's not just about buzzer beaters right lol. kobe probly has hundreds of clutch playoff shots you idiots overlook

[Johnny32]

here's how I know kobe hit most of the big shots for the Lakers. because after the fisher, Horry shots and artest/gasol putbacks the rest were kobe since the Lakers obviously hit more than 3 or 4 clutch shots over 20 years and there ain't no way you morons would overlook any of the ones made by other guys. you make a point to remember every single time kobe had a teammate do anything good for him. and you can count them on one hand. after those kobe was the go to guy in the clutch. you know it's not just about buzzer beaters right lol

ray allen. kyrie irving. john paxson. steve kerr.

lebron and jordan fans could make the same argument.

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe playing today wouldn't even be a top 8 player in this era.

Kawhi, lebron, durant, curry, giannis are all easily better.

Trae young, luka doncic, embiid also would be better.

Kobe would be Devin booker. He's even worse then booker when he's not coached by daddy Phil

reported

[HunterSThompson]

ray allen. kyrie irving. john paxson. steve kerr.

lebron and jordan fans could make the same argument.

the problem with lebron is he avoids the difficult or high pressure clutch shots and only really takes them when nothings on the line or it's tied or it's a shit team. he looks to pass first. he's not a go to guy in the clutch. he just shoots if the defender sags off. Jordan and kobe only ever passed if they had everyone collapse on them and even then they took the shot more often than not


lebron never likes the spotlight


and his teammates hit do or die shots for him during title years. Kobe and Jordan never had a guy save a series for them with 1 shot

[Johnny32]

the problem with lebron is he avoids the difficukt or high pressure clutch shots and only really takes them when nothings on the line or it's tied or it's a shit team. he looks to pass first. he's not a go to guy in the clutch. he just shoots if the defender sags off. Jordan and kobe only ever passed if they had everyone collapse on them and even then they took the shot more often than not


lebron never likes the spotlight

none of this is even true. you're just repeating what that depends wearing retard on tv says.

[SouBeachTalents]

the problem with lebron is he avoids the difficult or high pressure clutch shots and only really takes them when nothings on the line or it's tied or it's a shit team. he looks to pass first. he's not a go to guy in the clutch. he just shoots if the defender sags off. Jordan and kobe only ever passed if they had everyone collapse on them and even then they took the shot more often than not


lebron never likes the spotlight


and his teammates hit do or die shots for him during title years. Kobe and Jordan never had a guy save a series for them with 1 shot
Horry's 3 > Kyrie's. I'd take being tied with 50 seconds left in Game 7 over trailing 3-1 without HCA every single time.

[HunterSThompson]

none of this is even true. you're just repeating what that depends wearing retard on tv says.

lebron is shaky from the free throw line in the clutch so he avoids driving and looks to pass. skip Bayless isn't wrong when he says this

[HunterSThompson]

Horry's 3 > Kyrie's. I'd take being tied with 50 seconds left over trailing 3-1 without HCA every single time.

horrys 3 is not even in the same stratosphere as kyries 3

[SouBeachTalents]

horrys 3 is not even in the same stratosphere as kyries 3
Kyrie's 3 is more important historically, but Horry's was a more critical shot. You're too stubborn to admit otherwise, but like I said before, nobody is choosing a 3-1 deficit without HCA over being tied with 50 seconds left in Game 7, which are the scenarios if both missed their shots.

[HunterSThompson]

and horry missed every single 3 he took in 2003 vs rhe spurs including a possible series swinging buzzer beater a year later so he took a ring from the Lakers if you say he gave the Lakers one in 2002 lol

[HunterSThompson]

Kyrie's 3 is more important historically, but Horry's was a more critical shot. You're too stubborn to admit otherwise, but like I said before, nobody is choosing a 3-1 deficit without HCA over being tied with 50 seconds left in Game 7, which are the scenarios if both missed their shots.

nobody believes this

you people said that kings series was rigged to go 7 or in the Lakers favor. so how did horrys shot mean anything

[Johnny32]

nobody believes this

you people said that kings series was rigged to go 7 or in the Lakers favor. so how did horrys shot mean anything

he's right like it or not. how many teams in nba history have come back from down 3-1?

[HunterSThompson]

game 5's officiating was very favorable to the kings and they only won by 1 point

had the Lakers gone down 3-1 the refs likely give them more calls

and we all know how games 6 and 7 went. so I'm comfortable with the idea that the Lakers pull it out in 7 even if horry misses.

the league probably wanted the Lakers in the finals just as much as they wanted lebron in the finals for the past decade which really showed in 2012 vs Boston and many series after that out east. remember 2018. he was gifted 2 series that year lol

[HunterSThompson]

he's right like it or not. how many teams in nba history have come back from down 3-1?

1 more if horry misses that shot

[SATAN]

Holy shit, what a meltdown. :roll:

[TheCorporation]

Yo Kenny :lol You good my guy?

https://i.postimg.cc/yxXFQ1Yj/You-Good-Kenny.png

[ELITEpower23]

https://i.postimg.cc/28rJMwxP/1583807237555.jpg

/thread

[HunterSThompson]

/thread

so you think getting the other teams best player suspended and having your teammate hit the series winning shot makes you the goat.

interesting.


with more finals Ls than Ws as well


hmm




so when are you due back at the hospital

[Shooter]

LeBron, top 2
Kobe, 11th

All is good in the world

[TheGoatest]

More like one retard with schizophrenia:

https://images4.imagebam.com/33/cd/2a/MEB4CYN_o.png

[SATAN]

I randomly seen OP in a YouTube comments section mocking Kobe Bryant just after he died. No lie.

There's being a low life scumbag, then there's being Kenny (sociopath low life scumbag with ADHD).

[Spurs m8]

99% retards itt

Balancing it out a tiny bit

Moron forum