How can someone have losing record w/ AD, Westbrook, Melo, Dwight, THT [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ba11

12-04-2021, 12:41 PM

Well it’s clear that lebron isn’t very skilled and now his athleticism is on the decline.

Pretty much over for him now. Only way he wins another ring would be as a bench player on a stacked team

It's crazy because THT is a perennial all-star caliber without Lebron, but a bum with Lebron.

So on what planet does Lebron elevate teammates or make them better - he reduces guys to spot-up shooter and then asks for more help despite already having gems like THT

So he's just an assembler of talent - he assembles enough talent to win a title, and people misinterpret this as him "making guys better".. it's a massive fraud that takes advantage of people's ignorance about how the game really works (brand of ball beats talent, aka 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts & key suspension)

Bronbron23

12-04-2021, 12:48 PM

Bron-ball... That's how..

The same Bron-ball that barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love and went 2/4 with Wade/Bosh/Allen

Imagine having all that help and still needing more

Losing with talent = bad strategy/brand of ball... it's the story of Lebron's career and causes him to team-hop for more talent.

Well he's missed half tge games. They have a winning record with bron in the lineup although it's dwindling. I think they're 7-6 with bron.

3ba11

12-04-2021, 12:51 PM

Well he's missed half tge games. They have a winning record with bron in the lineup although it's dwindling. I think they're 7-6 with bron.

What's worse:

A) 7-6 with AD, Westbrook, Melo, Dwight and THT

B) 53 wins with Kyrie/Love

Ultimately, Lebron reduces guys to spot-up shooter and then asks for more help despite already having gems like THT

So he's just an assembler of talent - he assembles enough talent to win a title, and people misinterpret this as him "making guys better".. it's a massive fraud that takes advantage of people's ignorance about how the game really works (brand of ball beats talent, aka 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts & key suspension)

ELITEpower23

12-04-2021, 01:00 PM

LBJ season 19: 26-6-7 on 48% FG, 34% 3P

MJ Season 19: Gambling
MJ Season 18: Gambling
MJ Season 17: Gambling
MJ Season 16: Gambling
MJ Season 15: 20-6-4 on 44% FG, 29% 3P :oldlol:

Bye

ELITEpower23

12-04-2021, 01:01 PM

What's worse:

A) 7-6 with AD, Westbrook, Melo, Dwight and THT

B) 53 wins with Kyrie/Love

Ultimately, Lebron reduces guys to spot-up shooter and then asks for more help despite already having gems like THT

So he's just an assembler of talent - he assembles enough talent to win a title, and people misinterpret this as him "making guys better".. it's a massive fraud that takes advantage of people's ignorance about how the game really works (brand of ball beats talent, aka 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts & key suspension)

Did LeBron turn 2012 Wade, 2016 Kyrie and 2020 Davis into spot up shooters too?

3ba11

12-04-2021, 01:03 PM

Thread Cliffs

37-year Lebron is 7-6 with 5 HOF teammates, while 38-year MJ was 30-30 with the 2002 Wizards despite having only Rip Hamilton

Bronbron23

12-04-2021, 01:47 PM

What's worse:

A) 7-6 with AD, Westbrook, Melo, Dwight and THT

B) 53 wins with Kyrie/Love

Ultimately, Lebron reduces guys to spot-up shooter and then asks for more help despite already having gems like THT

So he's just an assembler of talent - he assembles enough talent to win a title, and people misinterpret this as him "making guys better".. it's a massive fraud that takes advantage of people's ignorance about how the game really works (brand of ball beats talent, aka 4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts & key suspension)

Not saying it's amazing but it's not really a losing record. Mj is great bro but Bron is great also. Sure i have mj ahead of bron but it dosn't mean bron isn't right there. Yeah his stans on here are wack as shit but bron is worthy of the goat convo

ELITEpower23

12-04-2021, 01:49 PM

LBJ season 19: 26-6-7 on 48% FG, 34% 3P

MJ Season 19: Gambling
MJ Season 18: Gambling
MJ Season 17: Gambling
MJ Season 16: Gambling
MJ Season 15: 20-6-4 on 44% FG, 29% 3P :oldlol:

Bye

Any?

Did LeBron turn 2012 Wade, 2016 Kyrie and 2020 Davis into spot up shooters too?

One?

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 01:49 PM

lakers are 7-5 when lebron plays not 7-6.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 01:57 PM

Bron-ball also gets 66 wins with Mo Williams, or 26 wins in a row with Bosh and Wade. So there's that.......I'm not even a Lebron fan but this is dumb( but not expected, given the messenger).

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:02 PM

Not saying it's amazing but it's not really a losing record. Mj is great bro but Bron is great also. Sure i have mj ahead of bron but it dosn't mean bron isn't right there. Yeah his stans on here are wack as shit but bron is worthy of the goat convo

Lebron had teammates match or lead in scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20'), while Jordan led teammates in every SERIES by at least 10 ppg.

This is standard.. At some point in everyone's playoff career, they had equal-scoring teammates to attract equal-defensive attention on various playoff runs and therefore weren't facing maximum defensive attention - any period without max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:05 PM

he's desperately trying to compare stats across eras again.

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:06 PM

1994 hou rockets playoff scoring

hakeem - 29 ppg
maxwell - 14 ppg

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:08 PM

1998 jazz playoff scoring

malone - 26 ppg
stockton - 11 ppg

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:09 PM

Bron-ball also gets 66 wins with Mo Williams, or 26 wins in a row with Bosh and Wade. So there's that.......I'm not even a Lebron fan but this is dumb( but not expected, given the messenger).

2/4 with Wade/Bosh including the goat choke and record loss is the worst anyone can do and far below the expectation ("not 6, not 7")

And he lost as a historic favorite to a 1-star team in 2009 Playoffs..... and the 2011 playoffs

So no one underachieved supporting talent like Lebron because his skills reduce talent to spot-up role... A simpleton ball-dominant skillset - a 6'9" Westbrooker

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:10 PM

1997 jazz playoff scoring

malone - 27 ppg
hornacek - 15 ppg

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:11 PM

it's almost like the 90s was watered down because of expansion and you didn't need three superstars to win in that offensively challenged era.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 02:13 PM

2/4 with Wade/Bosh including the goat choke and record loss is the worst anyone can do and far below the expectation ("not 6, not 7")

And he lost as a historic favorite to a 1-star team in 2009 Playoffs..... and the 2011 playoffs

So no one underachieved supporting talent like Lebron because his skills reduce talent to spot-up role.

The purpose of your thread is the Lakers current losing record. So we're talking about season records. I brought up Lebron winning 66 with Mo Williams, and winning 26 in a row in 2013 with Wade and Bosh. Season results achieved by what you call 'Bron-ball' and relevant to the topic. How is it you can't stay on topic in your own threads?

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:19 PM

it's almost like the 90s was watered down because of expansion and you didn't need three superstars to win in that offensive challenged era.

After the super-team 80's, expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win - obviously, anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format...

And the 2-star format allowed many Finals-caliber teams, which is a tougher path than being 1 of 2 super-teams like Lebron had from 2011-2018 (free ride)

Ultimately, Jordan is the only guy that won more than 2 Finals without a teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg in 1 of them.. So he won a lot more, with a lot less

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:24 PM

After the super-team 80's, expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win - obviously, anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format...

And the 2-star format allowed many Finals-caliber teams, which is a tougher path than being 1 of 2 super-teams like Lebron had from 2011-2018 (free ride)

Ultimately, Jordan is the only guy that won more than 2 Finals without a teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg in 1 of them.. So he won a lot more, with a lot less

the point is you can't compare lebron's help vs jordan's help like you continuously try to do. compare jordan's help to his competition and same for lebron.

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:31 PM

the point is you can't compare lebron's help vs jordan's help like you continuously try to do. compare jordan's help to his competition and same for lebron.

Who cares about comp because Lebron had an extra all-star teammate to face the comp (big 3 super-team) - MJ would destroy every team in history with an extra all-star teammate in addition to Pippen.

Ultimately, Lebron never won without a super-team as the clear-cut top producer.

He also hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - so his super-teams were so unfair (not 6, not 7 expectation) that KD had to form a super-team to stop the unfairness.

ELITEpower23

12-04-2021, 02:33 PM

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:40 PM

The purpose of your thread is the Lakers current losing record. So we're talking about season records. I brought up Lebron winning 66 with Mo Williams, and winning 26 in a row in 2013 with Wade and Bosh. Season results achieved by what you call 'Bron-ball' and relevant to the topic. How is it you can't stay on topic in your own threads?

Mo joined a 45-win loser in 2008 but turned it around, just like AD turned the lottery Lakers into champs.. Meanwhile, Lebron barely won 40 with the East all-star center in 05', and barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love

And playoffs always matter because playoff failure negates any regular season success and exposes the player as regular season player or brand

Lebron lost as a massive favorite from 09-11' - unprecedented losing when expected to win

Bronbron23

12-04-2021, 02:44 PM

Lebron had teammates match or lead in scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20'), while Jordan led teammates in every SERIES by at least 10 ppg.

This is standard.. At some point in everyone's playoff career, they had equal-scoring teammates to attract equal-defensive attention on various playoff runs and therefore weren't facing maximum defensive attention - any period without max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

I don't know man. Scoring is very important but it's not the only part of the game. Magic wasn't always the best scorer while being the best player on the floor. You could say the same for duncan. Why is bron any different?

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 02:44 PM

Mo joined a 45-win loser in 2008 but turned it around, just like AD turned the lottery Lakers into champs.. Meanwhile, Lebron barely won 40 with the East all-star center in 05', and barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love

And playoffs always matter because playoff failure negates any regular season success and exposes the player as regular season player or brand

Lebron lost as a massive favorite from 09-11' - unprecedented losing when expected to win

Nobody is arguing they don't, but that wasn't the premise of your thread. Bringing up 'bu bu the playoffs' after getting called doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the thread was intended to slight the Lakers current season record. Not a surprise that you move the goalposts. You're shit at propping MJ's legacy, but you're at least competent at spinning in circles when you trip over your own arguments.

Mo joined a 45-win loser in 2008 but turned it around, just like AD turned the lottery Lakers into champs.. Meanwhile, Lebron barely won 40 with the East all-star center in 05', and barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love

I see. And what do you call MJ winning 40 games in 87? Charles Oakley in 87 was dropping 15 and 13, numbers that shit all over Z's. I won't even bring up his playoff record to that point, because that's too low a fruit to reach for.

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:50 PM

Nobody is arguing they don't, but that wasn't the premise of your thread. Bringing up 'bu bu the playoffs' after getting called doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the thread was intended to slight the Lakers current season record. Not a surprise that you move the goalposts. You're shit at propping MJ's legacy, but you're at least competent at spinning in circles when you trip over your own arguments.

I see. And what do you call MJ winning 40 games in 87? Charles Oakley in 87 was dropping 15 and 13, numbers that shit all over Z's.

Mo joined a 45-win loser in 2008 but turned it around, just like AD turned the lottery Lakers into champs.. Meanwhile, Lebron barely won 40 with the East all-star center in 05', and barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love.. So Lebron sucks in regular season and his entire career shows this.

And Oakley wasn't anywhere near a top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star), so MJ had nowhere near the help relative to his comp like Lebron did... Lebron needed the East all-star and a 22/5/5 acquisition to make the playoffs in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing in a conference that required a super-team to win.

Johnny32

12-04-2021, 02:53 PM

Who cares about comp because Lebron had an extra all-star teammate to face the comp (big 3 super-team) - MJ would destroy every team in history with an extra all-star teammate in addition to Pippen.

Ultimately, Lebron never won without a super-team as the clear-cut top producer.

He also hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - so his super-teams were so unfair (not 6, not 7 expectation) that KD had to form a super-team to stop the unfairness.

you have a very simple basketball mind.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 02:56 PM

Mo joined a 45-win loser in 2008 but turned it around, just like AD turned the lottery Lakers into champs.. Meanwhile, Lebron barely won 40 with the East all-star center in 05', and barely won 50 with Kyrie/Love.. So Lebron sucks in regular season and his entire career shows this.

And Oakley wasn't anywhere near a top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star), so MJ had nowhere near the help relative to his comp like Lebron did... Lebron needed the East all-star and a 22/5/5 acquisition to make the playoffs, while MJ made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing

Oh, we're doing the repeat ourselves thing? Cool...... MJ in 84 as a rookie had Orlando Wooldridge dropping 23ppg on 55%. The fact that he wasn't an all-star is irrelevant, because you boil everything down to scoring production. 23ppg on 55% shits on 17ppg on 44%. The fact that Oakley wasn't top 3 at this position in 87 is...again....irrelevant because his production, you only thing you wank off to, exceeded Big Z's. Being an eastern all-star center in the mid 2000's didn't mean shit. Once you get past Shaq and Ben Wallace, you were eligible if you were 7 foot with a pulse.

3ba11

12-04-2021, 02:58 PM

Oh, we're doing the repeat ourselves thing? Cool...... MJ in 84 as a rookie had Orlando Wooldridge dropping 23ppg on 55%. The fact that he wasn't an all-star is irrelevant, because you boil everything down to scoring production. 23ppg on 55% shits on 17ppg on 44%. The fact that Oakley wasn't top 3 at this position in 87 is...again....irrelevant because his production, you only thing you wank off to, exceeded Big Z's. Being an eastern all-star center in the mid 2000's didn't mean shit. Once you get past Shaq and Ben Wallace, you were eligible if you were 7 foot with a pulse.

Similar to Oakley, Woodridge wasn't anywhere near a top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star), so MJ had nowhere near the help relative to his comp like Lebron did...

Lebron needed the East all-star, the future COY and a 22/5/5 acquisition to make the playoffs in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing in a conference that required a super-team to win.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 03:04 PM

Similar to Oakley, Woodridge wasn't anywhere near a top 3 player at his position in the conference (all-star), so MJ had nowhere near the help relative to his comp like Lebron did...

Lebron needed the East all-star and a 22/5/5 acquisition to make the playoffs, while MJ made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing

We can do the 'wasn't a top 3 at his position' till the cows come home. Nobody in their right mind( which excludes you from consideration) would argue that someone dropping 17ppg on 44% has the edge on someone dropping 23ppg on 55%. Doesn't matter if Woolridge was or wasn't an all-star because as previously said, we're talking an era where Jamal Mcgloire made the all-star team. Not only was the bar low, it was virtually below sea level.

Here's some more reality for you bucko....Z was 16/8 and....whatta ya know.....not all-star that year. The 22/5 guy you're referring to? Larry Hughes? He was 16/5 on 41% in 2006.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 03:10 PM

Lebron needed the East all-star, the future COY and a 22/5/5 acquisition to make the playoffs in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing in a conference that required a super-team to win.

So we're now reducing arguments to 'future' achievements? Would MJ having a former 4 time scoring champ in George Gervin matter in 1986? No? Well ok then.....

ShawkFactory

12-04-2021, 03:12 PM

So we're now reducing arguments to 'future' achievements? Would MJ having a former 4 time scoring champ in George Gervin matter in 1986? No? Well ok then.....

He also had a future 22/5/5 guy in 2003 but won 37 in the east.

3ba11

12-04-2021, 03:15 PM

So we're now reducing arguments to 'future' achievements? Would MJ having a former 4 time scoring champ in George Gervin matter in 1986? No? Well ok then.....

You guys say that Phil is a goat coach but he was a 1st-time, nobody coach in 90/91 just like Brown in 06/07 - both were future COY's at that time... the difference is that Jordan eventually won, while Lebron lost as a massive favorite in 09' and 10' and 11'

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 03:27 PM

You guys say that Phil is a goat coach but he was a 1st-time, nobody coach in 90/91 just like Brown in 06/07 - both were future COY's at that time... the difference is that Jordan eventually won, while Lebron lost as a massive favorite in 09' and 10' and 11'

Who's 'you guys'? Because I've never called Phil Jackson the GOAT coach. Are we at the point where you start throwing random shit in the air and assigning comments where they don't apply?

Out of interest since you bring up Mike Brown...... He must have major success on non-Lebron teams, right? Tell the board what he did after 2010.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 03:42 PM

https://c.tenor.com/5Hpftn3rbPgAAAAM/gg-wipe-hands.gif

3nutball has left the chat

ShawkFactory

12-04-2021, 03:51 PM

https://c.tenor.com/5Hpftn3rbPgAAAAM/gg-wipe-hands.gif

3nutball has left the chat

I’ll nip it in the bud for him:

He coaches Kobe and Pau for a year, then didn’t have a job, then the 33 win Cavs, then an associate NBA coach, and is now in Nigeria.

3ball would probably respond with well he still won COY. To which I’d respond with a direct 3ball quote from yesterday in this very thread regarding Pippen:

Dumb media awards? That isn't an argument

We then all share a laugh and he either repeats something else he said that has nothing to do with Mike Brown or ignores it and makes another thread tomorrow and continues to say the future COY thing. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Phoenix

12-04-2021, 04:27 PM

I’ll nip it in the bud for him:

He coaches Kobe and Pau for a year, then didn’t have a job, then the 33 win Cavs, then an associate NBA coach, and is now in Nigeria.

3ball would probably respond with well he still won COY. To which I’d respond with a direct 3ball quote from yesterday in this very thread regarding Pippen:

We then all share a laugh and he either repeats something else he said that has nothing to do with Mike Brown or ignores it and makes another thread tomorrow and continues to say the future COY thing. Lather, rinse, repeat.

:oldlol::cheers: You got it down to a science.

Full Court

12-04-2021, 05:29 PM

3ball, you're way overrating THT right now. The kid has potential for sure, but he's inconsistent and he makes a ton of low IQ plays. He also tends toward a ball-dominating iso style. Kind of like Labrone.

SATAN

12-04-2021, 11:03 PM

LBJ season 19: 26-6-7 on 48% FG, 34% 3P

MJ Season 19: Gambling
MJ Season 18: Gambling
MJ Season 17: Gambling
MJ Season 16: Gambling
MJ Season 15: 20-6-4 on 44% FG, 29% 3P :oldlol:

Bye

:lol

TheCorporation

12-04-2021, 11:14 PM

LBJ season 19: 26-6-7 on 48% FG, 34% 3P

MJ Season 19: Gambling
MJ Season 18: Gambling
MJ Season 17: Gambling
MJ Season 16: Gambling
MJ Season 15: 20-6-4 on 44% FG, 29% 3P :oldlol:

Bye

:lol

kawhileonard2

12-05-2021, 12:05 AM

This will answer it

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher

Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2

Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED

Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 06:20 PM

:oldlol::cheers: You got it down to a science.

It’s truly clockwork

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 06:33 PM

3ba11

12-05-2021, 06:46 PM

Who's 'you guys'? Because I've never called Phil Jackson the GOAT coach. Are we at the point where you start throwing random shit in the air and assigning comments where they don't apply?

Out of interest since you bring up Mike Brown...... He must have major success on non-Lebron teams, right? Tell the board what he did after 2010.

what did Phil do without MJ or his clone (kobe)?

how many rings?

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 06:49 PM

what did Phil do without MJ or his clone (kobe)?

how many rings?

What's the purpose of asking me this question when in the very post you quoted, I literally said I've never called Phil Jackson a GOAT coach?

You ok mate? Been a rough few days for ya.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 06:52 PM

What's the purpose of asking me this question when in the very post you quoted, I literally said I've never called Phil Jackson a GOAT coach?

You ok mate? Been a rough few days for ya.

The point is that Phil wasn't shit without MJ/Kobe, just like Brown wasn't shit without Lebron...

However, Brown actually was something without Lebron like winning a title with the Warriors and coaching Nigeria to victory over many of the NBA's best players.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:01 PM

However, Brown actually was something without Lebron like winning a title with the Warriors

As an assistant coach in 2017 on a team with Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, and Klay Thompson. The Warriors could have hired your retarded ass for that role and they'd still shit all over the league.

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 07:02 PM

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:04 PM

Phil Jackson would've NEVER won with that team, that was one of the GOAT coaching jobs in league history.

:lol

The best part of his reply was the Nigeria reference. Mental note, do not have coffee in hand when in the midst of reading a 3nutball post.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:07 PM

As an assistant coach in 2017 on a team with Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, and Klay Thompson. The Warriors could have hired your retarded ass for that role and they'd still shit all over the league.

You think they're just hiring any tom dick and harry in the Bay Area?... It's a testament to Brown that a GOAT franchise needed Brown's acumen, particularly on the defensive end - Brown's top defenses in Cleveland took the 08' Celtics to 7 games despite Lebron wetting the bed with 26 on 35%...

As a sidenote, only Lebron can say he lost series due to poor shooting because only Lebron lost series while shooting under 40% (07' Finals, 08' ECF, 15' Finals).. It normally happens when he faces max defensive attention by virtue of lacking and equal-scoring partner, aka he shoots poorly facing the kind of attention that MJ faced for his whole career

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:07 PM

The point is that Phil wasn't shit without MJ/Kobe, just like Brown wasn't shit without Lebron...

However, Brown actually was something without Lebron like winning a title with the Warriors and coaching Nigeria to victory over many of the NBA's best players.

You’re embarrassing yourself.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:09 PM

You think they're just hiring any tom dick and harry in the Bay Area?... It's a testament to Brown that a GOAT franchise needed Brown's acumen, particularly on the defensive end - Brown's top defenses in Cleveland took the 08' Celtics to 7 games despite Lebron wetting the bed with 26 on 35%...

:roll::roll:

Bruh.

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:09 PM

I'd like to see him explain why Mike Brown was FIRED while coaching (according to him) the 2nd greatest player of all time if he was such a great coach.

He was a great enough coach to become an ASSISTANT at the NBA level. Bron had it so easy in his early Cavs days.

Spurs m8

12-05-2021, 07:10 PM

We all know of the LeAnswer

zeerghit

12-05-2021, 07:12 PM

You’re embarrassing yourself.

shocking news..

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:14 PM

:roll::roll:

Bruh.

How did the 45-win Cavs take the 08' Celtics to 7 games with their #1 option shooting 35% and wetting the bed

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:15 PM

How did the 45-win Cavs take the 08' Celtics to 7 games

You mean like the 37 win Hawks?

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:19 PM

You mean like the 37 win Hawks?

Yes, Lebron couldn't outperform a 37-win team, while Kobe did

Boston indeed went 7 against the Cavs after the Hawks warmed them up in the 1st Round

We know the great Cavs' defense held the Celtics' offense far below their normal measurables, which explains the close series despite Lebron being all-time horrible - so credit Mike Brown, who led top defenses on those Cavs teams, especially in 07', 09' and 10'

The 07' or 09' Cavs had better-ranked defenses than the 1st-three peat Bulls and more scoring options... and then Jamison/Shaq were added to the 66-win league favorite in 10'

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 07:22 PM

Yes, Lebron couldn't outperform a 37-win team, while Kobe did

Boston indeed went 7 against the Cavs after the Hawks warmed them up in the 1st Round

We know the great Cavs' defense held the Celtics' offense far below their normal measurables, which explains the close series despite Lebron being all-time horrible - so credit Mike Brown, who led top defenses on those Cavs teams, especially in 07', 09' and 10'

The 07' or 09' Cavs had better-ranked defenses than the 1st-three peat Bulls and more scoring options... and then Jamison/Shaq were added to the 66-win league favorite in 10'
Are you actually retarded :oldlol:

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:23 PM

Yes, Boston went 7 against the Cavs after the Hawks warmed them up in the 1st Round

The Hawks warmed up the Celtics over 7 for the Cavs to do the same? Interesting....so that carried over to the Pistons and Lakers series, yeah?

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:25 PM

How did the 45-win Cavs take the 08' Celtics to 7 games with their #1 option shooting 35% and wetting the bed

You think Lebron was doubled at all?

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:28 PM

The 07' or 09' Cavs had better-ranked defenses than the 1st-three peat Bulls

So you use the Cavs 07 and 09 defensive ranking as the building block for your argument about the 08 team. Interesting...

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:29 PM

Are you actually retarded :oldlol:

I got the years mixed up with 2010 when the Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite that already had 2 all-stars including the league MVP.

We already know that the 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 1990 Bulls, while Mo Williams was superior offensively to Pippen across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)..

This matters because it means Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 1991, while Lebron lost in 2010 despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite that already had 2 all-stars including the league MVP.

TheCorporation

12-05-2021, 07:31 PM

I got the years mixed up with 2010 when the Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite that already had 2 all-stars including the league MVP.

We already know that the 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 1990 Bulls, while Mo Williams was superior offensively to Pippen across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)..

This matters because it means Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 1991, while Lebron lost in 2010 despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite that already had 2 all-stars including the league MVP.

:lol

You know they're on the ropes when they attempt to compare Scottie Pippen to Mo Williams.

It's over baby boi :lol

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:33 PM

We already know that the 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 1990 Bulls, while Mo Williams was superior offensively to Pippen across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)..

We also know that the 2008 Cavs were ranked 11th, hence why you're now shifting your attention to the 07 and 09 team. Even though your initial point was that their defense in 2008 was what took the Celtics to 7. An idea which was summarily shat on by the 18th defense Hawks doing the same. Meanwhile they beat the Pistons( 4th defense) and Lakers( 6th defense) in less games than the Hawks and Cavs.

Will that be all for tonight?

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:37 PM

:lol

You know they're on the ropes when they attempt to compare Scottie Pippen to Mo Williams.

It's over baby boi :lol

And not an Ali-Foreman rope situation either

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:37 PM

So you use the Cavs 07 and 09 defensive ranking as the building block for your argument about the 08 team. Interesting...

..............Defensive rank.... cast scoring options

07' Cavs....... #4 defense........ Hughes and Zydrunas
09' Cavs....... #3 defense........ Mo Williams (better PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen)
10' Cavs....... #7 defense........ Jamison, Mo, Shaq

90' Bulls..... #19 defense........ Pippen
91' Bulls...... #7 defense......... Pippen
92' Bulls...... #4 defense......... Pippen
93' Bulls...... #7 defense......... Pippen

So the Cavs had better defenses and more scoring options, especially in 2010 - Jamison averaged 32/10 and outplayed Lebron in the 07' first round and was a 2x all-star.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:39 PM

And not an Ali-Foreman rope situation either

Something more akin to this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/da/56/ffda56946522fa65be1c785fb6a210d0.gif

It's been a rough day for the ole chap.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:42 PM

Something more akin to this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/da/56/ffda56946522fa65be1c785fb6a210d0.gif

It's been a rough day for the ole chap.

You were destroyed

take the acting to hollywood.. maybe you can be in rocky 7

i literally answered every point you made and you answered none of mine.. plain as day.. i won all 12 rounds.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:43 PM

..............Defensive rank.... cast scoring options

07' Cavs....... #4 defense.... Hughes and Zydrunas
09' Cavs....... #3 defense.... Mo Williams (better PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen)
10' Cavs....... #7 defense.... Jamison, Mo, Shaq

90' Bulls..... #19 defense... Pippen
91' Bulls...... #7 defense.... Pippen
92' Bulls...... #4 defense.... Pippen
93' Bulls...... #7 defense.... Pippen

So the Cavs had better defenses and more scoring options, especially in 2010 - Jamison averaged 32/10 and outplayed Lebron in the 07' first round and was a 2x all-star.

So the 2008 Cavs who were ranked 11th in defense and 20th in offense took the Celtics to 7, but the 2010 Cavs who were ranked 6th in offense and 7th and defense lost to the same Celtics team in 6? Quite the anomaly, eh?

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:45 PM

You were destroyed

take the acting to hollywood.. maybe you can be in rocky 7

i literally answered every point you made and you answered none of mine.. plain as day.. i won all 12 rounds.. unanimous decision

No you haven't. I asked you questions 8 hours ago in the other thread which remain unanswered. The above gif isn't solely representative of the beating I've given you today, because quite literally the entire board has been shitting on you. Every single poster you're engaging with is just dropping logs on your head at this point.

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:45 PM

Something more akin to this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/da/56/ffda56946522fa65be1c785fb6a210d0.gif

It's been a rough day for the ole chap.

Luckily it's internet basketball talk so he doesn't have to deal with that. And luckily it's ISH so he doesn't have to deal with either being laughed out of the room or just dropped from the group because of how annoying he is.

Raja would be be so embarrassed.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:47 PM

So the 2008 Cavs who were ranked 11th in defense and 20th in offense took the Celtics to 7, but the 2010 Cavs who were ranked 6th in offense and 7th and defense lost to the same Celtics team in 6? Quite the anomaly, eh?

Lebron digressed in 2008 before Mo gave him the spacing Lebron needed to elevate to MVP-caliber..

Their offense jumped from trash to top 5 with the addition of Mo, which put more pressure on teams (wore them out) so they had less capacity to go off offensively (lessened the Cavs' defensive needs).. The addition of Mo helped with the attrition battle better than ever before.

When Lebron lacked this spacing effect from Mo in 2011, he was trash again and infact 2nd option in the playoffs to Wade... Then he needed another spacer (Allen) to win MVP again... Lebron needs more spacing than Jordan - it's just another area where he needs more help than MJ - spacing, playmaking and scoring are big areas to need more help.. (westbrook, rondo, kyrie, wade and jordan averaged more assists than pippen)

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:52 PM

Lebron digressed in 2008 before Mo gave him the spacing he needed to elevate to MVP-caliber.. When Lebron lacked this in 2011, he was trash again and infact 2nd option in the playoffs to Wade... Then he needed another spacer (Allen) to win MVP again... Lebron needs more spacing than Jordan - it's just another area where he needs more help than MJ - spacing, playmaking and scoring are big areas to need more help.. (westbrook, rondo, kyrie, wade and jordan averaged more assists than pippen)

Mo was the one who elevated Lebron to MVP level, eh? I'm looking at the 2006 roster when Lebron was 2nd in MVP voting. Mo must have one hell of an impact if he can elevate Lebron to MVP level while playing for the Bucks.

The Cavs were better in 2010 than they were in 2008, and lost easier. The point you're being guided to slowly is that the Cavs defense in 2008 wasn't what took the Celtics to 7, because the 18th ranked Hawks did the same, and they took out the 4th and 6th ranked defense in 6 games. Those Celtics played to the level of their competition, which is why the worse teams( Cavs and Hawks) took them to 7 while the better teams( Pistons and Lakers) got taken out in 6.

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:55 PM

Mo was the one who elevated Lebron to MVP level, eh? I'm looking at the 2006 roster when Lebron was 2nd in MVP voting. Mo must have one hell of an impact if he can elevate Lebron to MVP level while playing for the Bucks.

The Cavs were better in 2010 than they were in 2008, and lost easier. The point you're being guided to slowly is that the Cavs defense in 2008 wasn't what took the Celtics to 7, because the 18th ranked Hawks did the same, and they took out the 4th and 6th ranked defense in 6 games. Those Celtics played to the level of their competition, which is why the worse teams( Cavs and Hawks) took them to 7 while the better teams( Pistons and Lakers) got taken out in 6.

Seems to be the common theme. Mo motherfvcking Williams made Lebron.

And Larry Hughes. Can't forget him.

I'm also still waiting for that double team answer. Lebron never drew doubles teams apparently, so I'm wondering if that series was different. (***spoiler alert*** there is live footage of that series and it doesn't do well for 3ball)

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:56 PM

Then he needed another spacer (Allen) to win MVP again...

Wow, Ray Allen had crazy impact too. When Lebron won MVP in 2012, Ray was on the Celtics.

3ball.....

https://i.gifer.com/PpQh.gif

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 07:58 PM

Seems to be the common theme. Mo motherfvcking Williams made Lebron.

And Larry Hughes. Can't forget him.

Big Z too. The 17/7 44% shooting 'all-star' bigman.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 07:59 PM

Mo was the one who elevated Lebron to MVP level, eh? I'm looking at the 2006 roster when Lebron was 2nd in MVP voting. Mo must have one hell of an impact if he can elevate Lebron to MVP level while playing for the Bucks.

The Cavs were better in 2010 than they were in 2008, and lost easier. The point you're being guided to slowly is that the Cavs defense in 2008 wasn't what took the Celtics to 7, because the 18th ranked Hawks did the same, and they took out the 4th and 6th ranked defense in 6 games. Those Celtics played to the level of their competition, which is why the worse teams( Cavs and Hawks) took them to 7 while the better teams( Pistons and Lakers) got taken out in 6.

Yes, Mo elevated Lebron to MVP-level because Lebron never won without acquiring spacers like Mo (09/10), or Mike Miller & Battier (2012), or Ray Allen (2013).

He needs those big threats on the perimeter or he can't be an MVP-caliber producer - without spacers to organize things for him, he can't employ his simpleton skillset (1 dribbler and 4 guys standing around, aka 4/10-ball).

Ultimately, the 2009 Cavs had far better defense and more offensive help than the 1990 Bulls, yet Jordan beat him to titles by winning the next year in 91', while Lebron lost in 10' despite adding Jamson/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 07:59 PM

Big Z too. The 17/7 44% shooting 'all-star' bigman.

THE allstar of the east. No one else compares.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 08:02 PM

Big Z too. The 17/7 44% shooting 'all-star' bigman.

Actually, Zydrunas was the league's #6 rim protector in 2005 (2.1 blocks) and also averaged 18/9 - however, the all-star duo of Zydrunas/Lebron still needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs, along with the future COY and top defenses.

This gave Lebron in a high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had nothing when he made the playoffs or ECF in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:05 PM

Yes, Mo elevated Lebron to MVP-level because Lebron never won without acquiring spacers like Mo (09/10), or Mike Miller & Battier (2012), or Ray Allen (2013).

He needs those big threats on the perimeter or he can't be an MVP-caliber producer - without spacers to organize things for him, he can't employ his simpleton skillset (1 dribbler and 4 guys standing around, aka 4/10-ball).

Ah, so the big threat of Mike Miller dropping 6ppg and Battier dropping 5 in 2012 reignited Lebron's MVP status. B I G threats here.

Out of curiosity, with the kind of impact Mo apparently had, did he elevate anyone else to MVP level on one of the other 6 teams he played for?

3ba11

12-05-2021, 08:09 PM

Ah, so the big threat of Mike Miller dropping 6ppg and Battier dropping 5 in 2012 reignited Lebron's MVP status. B I G threats here.

Out of curiosity, with the kind of impact Mo apparently had, did he elevate anyone else to MVP level on one of the other 6 teams he played for?

everytime LeFraud won MVP, he had acquired these big shooting threats to open things up for him... So I'm just going with the historical record and trend.

otoh, jordan WAS the floor-spacer for his teams.. his elite jumpshooting skill allowed him to produce as an assist target, which opened up the ball movement and offense - so his teams won the attrition battle, aka his team's offense POPPED OFF, while lebron's teams GET popped off on,

as a sidenote, part of the reason Lebron can't beat good teams with high scoring is because his high scoring is too ball-dominant so teammates are reduced to spot-up shooter, whereas Jordan's high scoring was partially-assisted, which elevates teammates and allowed him to win many series with high scoring.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:11 PM

Actually, Zydrunas was the league's #6 rim protector in 2005 (2.1 blocks) and also averaged 18/9 - however, the all-star duo of Zydrunas/Lebron still needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs, along with the future COY and top defenses.

Actually, Big Z shot 44%. That has nothing to do with his rim protection, but thanks for the tip.

Hughes was 16/5 on 41% in 2006. Before you argue that was the 'Bron-ball' effect, his career field goal percentage leading up to joining the Cavs was 42% with 4 seasons under 40%.

The same future Coach of the year who surfaced as an assistant on the Warriors and currently not coaching in the NBA? Cool.

TheCorporation

12-05-2021, 08:13 PM

And not an Ali-Foreman rope situation either

No sir :lol

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:14 PM

everytime LeFraud won MVP, he had acquired these big shooting threats to open things up for him... So I'm just going with the historical record and trend.

otoh, jordan WAS the floor-spacer for his teams.. his elite jumpshooting skill allowed him to produce as an assist target, which opened up the ball movement and offense - so his teams won the attrition battle, aka his team's offense POPPED OFF, while lebron's teams GET popped off on,

as a sidenote, part of the reason Lebron can't beat good teams with high scoring is because his high scoring is too ball-dominant so teammates are reduced to spot-up shooter, whereas Jordan's high scoring was partially-assisted, which elevates teammates and allowed him to win many series with high scoring.

Yes, the historical record does indeed show that big 6ppg threats are usually what makes or breaks an MVP. Afterall, MJ doesn't have a single MVP without a floor spacer like Paxson or Kerr on the roster.

Now answer my question. Since Mo was the catalyst for Lebron winning MVP, who else did Mo help win MVP on one of the other 6 teams he played for? I don't need any 'Otoh Jordan' in your reply, thanks in advance.

TheCorporation

12-05-2021, 08:16 PM

Yes, the historical record does indeed show that big 6ppg threats are usually what makes or breaks an MVP.

Now answer my question. Since Mo was the catalyst for Lebron winning MVP, who else did Mo help win MVP on one of the other 6 teams he played for? I don't need any 'Otoh Jordan' in your reply, thanks in advance.

:lebronamazed:

3iq wrekt again

3ba11

12-05-2021, 08:30 PM

Yes, the historical record does indeed show that big 6ppg threats are usually what makes or breaks an MVP. Afterall, MJ doesn't have a single MVP without a floor spacer like Paxson or Kerr on the roster.

Now answer my question. Since Mo was the catalyst for Lebron winning MVP, who else did Mo help win MVP on one of the other 6 teams he played for? I don't need any 'Otoh Jordan' in your reply, thanks in advance.

Mo's prime was spent in Milwaukee briefly and then Lebron briefly and then his prime was over... He didn't get to play with any other stars in his prime.

You guys like to weaponize coincidental timing, like knocking MJ for losing during his first few years without Pippen, when that's a period that EVERYONE loses - durant, lebron, giannis and curry didn't win any playoff series during their first few years either (they were lottery)

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:36 PM

Mo's prime was spent in Milwaukee briefly and then Lebron briefly and then his prime was over... He didn't get to play with any other stars in his prime.

You guys like to weaponize coincidental timing, like knocking MJ for losing during his first few years without Pippen, when that's a period that EVERYONE loses - durant, lebron, giannis and curry didn't win any playoff series during their first few years either (they were lottery)

Mo wasn't on the Cavs in 2006 when Lebron was 2nd. What does that mean? If the media hadn't decided that Nash deserved recognition for keeping the Suns competitive after Amare got injured, Lebron would have won MVP that year, 3 years in. The only coincidence being weaponized is Mo being on the Cavs won Lebron first won MVP in 09. This is the same dude who dropped off a cliff in the playoffs the same year, but I'm supposed to believe Lebron isn't winning MVP without him.

So if EVERYONE loses in their first few years, why are you knocking Lebron for doing so in his?

3ba11

12-05-2021, 08:38 PM

Mo wasn't on the Cavs in 2006 when Lebron was 2nd. What does that mean? If the media hadn't decided that Nash deserved recognition for keeping the Suns competitive after Amare got injured, Lebron would have won MVP that year, 3 years in. The only thing coincidence being weaponized is Mo being on the Cavs won Lebron first won MVP in 09. This is the same dude who dropped off a cliff in the playoffs the same year.

So if EVERYONE loses in their first few years, why are you knocking Lebron for doing so in his?

We talkin' bout' runner up?.. there's a big gap between runner-up and MVP

Lebron didn't win MVP without big spacing acquisitions... So the fraud needs goat spacing, goat playmaking help, goat scoring help and goat clutch help

good lawd

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:44 PM

We talkin' bout' runner up?.. there's a big gap between runner-up and MVP

Lebron didn't win MVP without big spacing acquisitions... So the fraud needs goat spacing, goat playmaking help, goat scoring help and goat clutch help

good lawd

Ahhh so basically, to be 'MVP level' you have to win it. So MJ during his Bulls career wasn't MVP level in 85, 86, 87, 89, 90, 93, and 97.

So MJ won all his MVPs with Paxson and Kerr, great spacers for the era, and 4 of his MVPs were won within the context of a particular offense.

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 08:47 PM

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 08:49 PM

How about the fact his true favorite player only has one measly MVP :lol

And a measly two finals MVPs :oldlol:

TheCorporation

12-05-2021, 09:00 PM

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:01 PM

Since Mo was the catalyst for Lebron winning MVP, who else did Mo help win MVP on one of the other 6 teams he played for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 09:01 PM

3ba11

12-05-2021, 09:04 PM

Ahhh so basically, to be 'MVP level' you have to win it. So MJ during his Bulls career wasn't MVP level in 85, 86, 87, 89, 90, 93, and 97.

So MJ won all his MVPs with Paxson and Kerr, great spacers for the era, and 4 of his MVPs were won within the context of a particular offense.

To win your first... After you've won a few and considered the goat by many people, you stop getting MVP's as the league promotes parity.

And MJ won MVP's without all-star teammates - Mo Williams was an all-star in 2009 and led the league in 3-point makes per game, so he doesn't compare to Paxson, who was trash and wouldn't have a career right now without the name recognition of playing with MJ..

Since Lebron always had an all-star teammate to take defensive attention away and elevate Lebron's efficiency and performance to MVP-caliber, he never won MVP by defeating maximum defensive attention like MJ did.

Regarding the triangle - it never won before or since it had the goat bailout artists it needed to win - MJ and Kobe bailed out the offense on all those plays where the role players got their chance to move the ball but couldn't find a shot... that's a lot of plays throughout the game, so only the goat bailout artists that invented the clutch, mid-range footwork will do.. Since MJ/Kobe set the bailout standard in the triangle, every clutch player since then has used their footwork to win titles (Dirk, Kawhi, Pierce, Kobe).

3ba11

12-05-2021, 09:05 PM

Since Mo was the catalyst for Lebron winning MVP, who else did Mo help win MVP on one of the other 6 teams he played for?

Mo's prime was spent in Milwaukee briefly and then Lebron briefly and then his prime was over... He didn't get to play with any other stars in his prime.

You guys like to weaponize coincidental timing, like knocking MJ for losing during his first few years without Pippen, when that's a period that EVERYONE loses - durant, lebron, giannis and curry didn't win any playoff series during their first few years either (they were lottery)

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:05 PM

And that's...Mo Williams?

You're roll today :lol

Don't forget that Ray Allen was also responsible for Lebron winning MVP in 2012.....while playing for the Celtics.

When Lebron lacked this spacing effect from Mo in 2011, he was trash again and infact 2nd option in the playoffs to Wade... Then he needed another spacer (Allen) to win MVP again...

3ba11

12-05-2021, 09:08 PM

Don't forget that Ray Allen was also responsible for Lebron winning MVP in 2012.....while playing for the Celtics.

Now you're lying to stay itt?

I specifically pointed out that the Heat acquired 3-point specialists Mike Miller and Battier for Lebron to win MVP in 2012... similar to how Mo was acquired for Lebron to win MVP in 09/10, and Allen in 13'... Lebron simply needs these big spacers for his game and production to be MVP-caliber.. :confusedshrug:

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:10 PM

And MJ won MVP's without all-star teammates - Mo Williams was an all-star in 2009 and led the league in 3-point makes per game, so he doesn't compare to Paxson, who was trash and wouldn't have a career right now without the name recognition of playing with MJ.

Ahh, this is captivating stuff. How many all-star games did he make before and after playing with Lebron?

TheCorporation

12-05-2021, 09:11 PM

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 09:14 PM

Ahh, this is captivating stuff. How many all-star games did he make before and after playing with Lebron?
Don't forget, he only made the all-star game as a BACKUP injury replacement that season. He needed Bosh & Jameer Nelson both to get injured in order to make the all-star game. Very convincing inclusion :lol

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:15 PM

Now you're lying to stay itt?

I specifically pointed out that the Heat acquired 3-point specialists Mike Miller and Battier for Lebron to win MVP in 2012... similar to how Mo was acquired for Lebron to win MVP in 09/10, and Allen in 13'... Lebron simply needs these big spacers for his game and production to be MVP-caliber.. :confusedshrug:

No, you didn't. You said after Lebron left Mo, he was trash and didn't win MVP again until Allen joined him. Since you admit to not having watched NBA for most of the last decade, you didn't seem to know that Lebron won MVP in 2012 when Allen was still on the Celtics. So when I caught you in THAT lie( or complete lack of knowledge on where Ray Allen was in 2012, either one works), you back-pedalled and say bu bu bu the 5ppg juggernaut benchwarmers Mike Miller and Shane Battier!!!! You didn't mention either of them until I called you out on your Ray Allen fukk-up.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:17 PM

Don't forget, he only made the all-star game as a BACKUP injury replacement that season. He needed Bosh & Jameer Nelson both to get injured in order to make the all-star game. Very convincing inclusion :lol

:roll:

I forgot that tidbit.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/83QtfwKWdmSEo/200.gif

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 09:17 PM

Ahhh, you guys keep me young

Happy to help

Hey Yo

12-05-2021, 09:29 PM

Ahh, this is captivating stuff. How many all-star games did he make before and after playing with Lebron?

He said before that 1 time all-stars don't count as real all-stars, regardless who it is.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:30 PM

He said before that 1 time all-stars don't count as real all-stars, regardless who it is.

Another 3ball own-goal? Just another day at the office.

ShawkFactory

12-05-2021, 09:31 PM

He said before that 1 time all-stars don't count as real all-stars, regardless who it is.

Pretty sure that was to rule out Horace and Armstrong.

Phoenix

12-05-2021, 09:36 PM

Pretty sure that was to rule out Horace and Armstrong.

It should also rule out Ilgauskas with 2 selections. If you were 7 foot with a pulse in the mid 2000s east, you were 75% of the way towards being an eligible all-star.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 09:58 PM

By this same idiotic logic I could easily say that MJ needed insurmountable defensive and playmaking help just to beat...Clyde Drexler.

Lebron needs far more playmaking than Pippen:

Career APG

Westbrook..... 8.6
Rondo........... 8.0
Kyrie............ 5.7
Wade............ 5.4
Jordan.......... 5.3
Pippen.......... 5.2

And the 92' Blazers, 07' Cavs, 09' Cavs, 11' Heat and 12' Heat had a better defense than the Bulls...

So that destroys your playmaking help and defensive help argument

SouBeachTalents

12-05-2021, 09:59 PM

It should also rule out Ilgauskas with 2 selections. If you were 7 foot with a pulse in the mid 2000s east, you were 75% of the way towards being an eligible all-star.
Not true. He was competing with sure fire HOF's like Jamaal Magloire for those extremely competitive Eastern center spots.

3ba11

12-05-2021, 11:37 PM

Not true. He was competing with sure fire HOF's like Jamaal Magloire for those extremely competitive Eastern center spots.

Best center help and rim protection

2010 Shaq............ 12.7 and 1.5 block... 17.9 PER
2005 Zydrunas...... 17.9 and 2.1 block... 18.7 PER
2014 Bosh............ 16/7 and 1.0 block... 19.0 PER
2015 Mozgov......... 10/8 and 1.2 block... 16.6 PER
2017 Tristan............ 8/9 and 1.1 block... 15.3 PER
2020 McGee............ 6/7 and 1.1 block... 19.4 PER

1989 Cartwright.... 12/7 and 0.5 block... 11.0 PER
1998 Longley........ 11/5 and 1.1 block... 13.5 PER

And best SG help (wade)... best PG help (kyrie, westbrook, rondo, mo)... best pf help (love, bosh, jamison, ad).

bullettooth

12-06-2021, 06:13 PM

Bran nut huggers will tell you he makes teammates better.

lulz

lakerstekkenn

12-06-2021, 06:24 PM

3ba11

12-06-2021, 06:46 PM

Maybe Frank isn't that good @ gelling different types of all star players together unlike Phil could, maybe it was Kidd who was the offensive coach while Frank worked on defense once Kidd left Frank doesn't know what system this team needs to run to be successful once Kidd left his offensive system went with him, Frank might be having trouble reaching these players because he lost them with his wrong strategies.

It's possible Frank is forcing a system that certain players can't pick up right away especially on defense, Phil wouldn't have any trouble winning with this team, with Phil these Lakers would have the best record in the NBA crushing everyone but Frank isn't Phil.

Frank us even trying James @ center, so he's having trouble figuring out the correct lineup.

When Lebron is dominating the ball, the triangle cannot be run - the 2 things can't happen at the same time - there's no point guard role in the triangle and extended live dribbling isn't allowed.

So Phil can't run the triangle with Lebron because teams must maximize the production of their best player and Lebron can only get elite stats by dominating the ball (not the triangle).. The only reason the triangle worked with Jordan is because he WASN'T ONLY a ball-dominator and had the scoring versatility to produce without dominating the ball (elite jumpshooting skill).

Ultimately, no coach has ever been able to take the ball out of Lebron's hands because ball-dominance is Lebron's skillset - he can't produce at a high level any other way - so there's no way a 1st time, nobody coach like 90' Phil Jackson could've done it, nor would he even try - the triangle is obviously not lebron's skillset.

In 2 decades of playing, Lebron's ball-dominance and low assist teams never had a #1 offense despite some of the best offensive help possible.. His frontcourt ball-dominance has poor fits with various player types and doesn't allow the best strategy (ball movement), which results in lower team celings/Finals records.