Does LeGOAT have the highest basketball IQ of all time?

[Johnny32]

"He was out there just making plays," Williams told reporters. "He was making plays with his mind, with his communication, even when he didn't have the ball. When he was off-ball, he was calling out our plays, telling guys where to be and what was coming next. You can tell that he watches a lot of film."

"We beat them a couple of times when he was in Cleveland. He was not that way," Rivers said. "I've never seen a change in a player [like James]. I knew we were in trouble in Miami when we were coaching. When he was in Cleveland, he was just playing basketball. We get to Miami, and he's in Miami now, and he's calling our plays out, he's staring over at our bench, he's reading stuff. I remember saying, 'This is not good.'"

"The [smartest] player to coach against, and one of the most difficult, going through him in the playoffs, was LeBron James," Casey said. "This guy was looking in your mouth right there and just calling it. He was telling the players exactly what was gonna happen on the play that you called."

"I remember it was a play we was trying to run and one of our teammates forgot the play, and 'Bron told him the play," DeRozan said. "Like, it was some crazy s---. We calling a play, and [the Raptors teammate] was like, 'What?' And 'Bron told him what our play was.

"I was in the gym when I watched him on the floor against Toronto tell Patrick Patterson where he was supposed to go on the play they had called out of a timeout late in the fourth quarter. He was like 'No Pat, you're supposed to stand over there and set a pin down for DeMar [DeRozan] over here.'"

Scott Brooks talking about how smart LeBron is. He said sometimes he calls out fake plays to try to deceive other teams, and when he’s done it against LeBron’s teams, LeBron has responded, “You guys don’t have that play!”

"He's so cerebral. We used to joke that he was a computer on learning mode. He's such a savant, and he figures out the angles to such a huge degree that it's not a surprise he's figured to game the system a little bit." Griffin added: "There's literally nothing you can show him that he can't do. There's no play you'll run against him he can't name, and then go out there and teach your players how to do it better than anyone else."

"It might be his biggest superpower, his ability to get everybody on the same page. Like, it's actually kind of scary," Shumpert said. "He can explain this game forward and back. It's unbelievable. You talk about someone who knows the playbook, knows where everybody's supposed to be, knows the other teams' coaches' playbook, style of coaching, how his ball club is gonna play. 'Bron's one of them. "Like, we'll be going into Philly tonight, he'll be like, 'They just hired their new defensive coach, but he was at Georgetown for three years, and I played for him one time at camp, and this is how he's gonna play us.' And you're like, 'What?"

"He knows everybody," Cook told Sports Illustrated's Melissa Rohlin. "[It] could be last guy on the bench on the team, but he knows he's left-handed, he's a shooter, don't go under him, he's a driver, stuff like that. He pays attention to the game, he watches the game, and he studies."

It appears so.

[Bronbron23]

No ball dominant systems are inferior to sytem with alot of on and off ball movement. Chosing an inferior ball dominant style is not intelligent.

[Johnny32]

No ball dominant systems are inferior to sytem with alot of on and off ball movement. Chosing an inferior ball dominant style is not intelligent.

unless one of the greatest passers ever with the highest iq's in nba history is dominating the ball.

[Bronbron23]

unless one of the greatest passers ever with the highest iq's in nba history is dominating the ball.

Ahhh nope it's still extremely predictable and an inferior style of play. Why you think bron never has a top offense even though he colludes and has multiple all stars?

[HunterSThompson]

his court vision is high. basketball IQ? very low


his ball pounding stagnating offense is low IQ


his off ball skills are also low IQ

and his on ball defense is definitely low IQ


footwork = low IQ


decision making under pressure = low IQ


his squad building = low IQ


how he uses his superstar teammates = low IQ


his hairline = low IQ


his steroid abuse = low IQ


his race baiting liberal BLM bullshit = low IQ

selling out to China = low IQ





should I go on?

[Johnny32]

his court vision is high. basketball IQ? very low


his ball pounding stagnating offense is low IQ


his off ball skills are also low IQ

and his on ball defense is definitely low IQ


footwork = low IQ

decision making under pressure = low IQ


his squad building = low IQ


how he uses his superstar teammates = low IQ


his hairline = low IQ


his steroid abuse = low IQ


his race baiting liberal BLM bullshit = low IQ

selling out to China = low IQ





should I go on?

congrats on the dumbest post i've read today. and i was laughing at the tards on ag too so that's quite the accomplishment.

[RRR3]

Certainly a higher IQ than dumbdumb23 and Kenny.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron memorizes everything - people's names, his team's plays, the opponent's plays, where his teammates should be standing, where the opponent should be standing... did I miss anything?

But none of that changes reality that he uses inferior strategy - it's called low team assist ball-domination... So who cares what plays he can memorize if they're weaker plays than the opponent due to his simpleton, westbrooking skillset.. It doesn't matter tthat he's smarter and usually more efficient than Westbrook - he's still using the same inferior strategy - ball-domination..

If Lebron hadn't formed super-teams, he would've been just another career-losing ball-dominator like Westbrook, Harden, CP3, etc... Westbrooking usually loses regardless of who the westbrooker is - if Magic/Lebron can't have a winning Finals record with that style, than it can't be done (9-10 in Finals)

[FireDavidKahn]

No ball dominant systems are inferior to sytem with alot of on and off ball movement. Chosing an inferior ball dominant style is not intelligent.

Wait until this guy hears about MJ or Kobe:roll: LeGOAT is like John Stockton compared to those two

[Johnny32]

imagine desperately trying to downplay the effectiveness of a "strategy" that led to 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

[Full Court]

If he's the highest basketball IQ of all time and he still ended up 4/10 and -86 in the finals, then he must really suck at everything else.

[Johnny32]

If he's the highest basketball IQ of all time and he still ended up 4/10 and -86 in the finals, then he must really suck at everything else.

you can only put your teammates in the best possible position to succeed. lebron clearly does that reading the quotes in this topic. he can't shoot for them, or guard 1-5...though coach spo disagrees.

As Spoelstra said, changes with matchups in this series will happen throughout. James is going to end up guarding just about everybody in a Pacers uniform at some time because his versatility and ability allows that to happen.

"LeBron already knows one through five, period," Spoelstra explained. "He’ll be guarding every single one of those guys like he did last night at some point during the game and that’s just the way it is."

i take that back. he can guard 1-5...just not all at the same time.

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron has pretty much been the Head Coach on his team for most of his career.

MJ & Kobe didn't really know how to play a team game early in their careers, they needed a GOAT level coach to teach them team comes first, LeBron knew that from day one.

[Reggie43]

Larry Bird

[HunterSThompson]

congrats on the dumbest post i've read today. and i was laughing at the tards on ag too so that's quite the accomplishment.

its all true. lebrons only high IQ for basketball is his court vision and manipulating refs, commissioners and other superstars

after that how is he utilizing intelligence. by barreling towards the rim? shooting wide open? I don't see the genius in any of that. his offensive style is basic. not complex

[HunterSThompson]

being able to understand a triangle offense and being able to play off the ball and move as a unit. that's high IQ. just holding the ball and watching others move around you isn't

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

I would say that's Kawhi. The discipline on his shot selection is matched by no wing player in nba history and he's a much smarter defender then LeBron.

[Full Court]

I would say that's Kawhi. The discipline on his shot selection is matched by no wing player in nba history and he's a much smarter defender then LeBron.

I'm not a Kawhi fan, but I have to agree with this.

[SATAN]

being able to understand a triangle offense and being able to play off the ball and move as a unit. that's high IQ. just holding the ball and watching others move around you isn't

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

[ELITEpower23]

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

Shut it down!!

:oldlol::roll:

[2much_knowledge]

Didn't read. And no

[Spurs m8]

No.

And yawn

This forum is so boring lmao

[Spurs m8]

I would say that's Kawhi. The discipline on his shot selection is matched by no wing player in nba history and he's a much smarter defender then LeBron.

Yeah but you're a moron...so no one cares what you think

Legit got banned for being too stupid....

ON ISH

Let that sink in for a minute.

And go get a new hobby...basketball isn't for you

[Baller789]

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

Rodman is one of the highest iq players in history.

:facepalm

[Johnny32]

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

lmao.

[HunterSThompson]

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

the post players in the triangle don't move around much. especially the guy going for rebounds. the perimeter triangle is difficult. ask melo


they have to move in sync to different spots on other ends of the half court with every pass. Rodman just has to move from block to block at most?

and hes playing on the weak side so hes not even part of the play

"OOOOH SHUT IT DOWN AHAHAHAHHAA WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWO

:roll::roll::roll:
"

[RogueBorg]

LeBron has pretty much been the Head Coach on his team for most of his career.

MJ & Kobe didn't really know how to play a team game early in their careers, they needed a GOAT level coach to teach them team comes first, LeBron knew that from day one.

Then how come Lebron didn't know how many time outs the Cavs had at the end of Game 1 of the 2018 NBA Finals?

[3ba11]

being able to understand a triangle offense and being able to play off the ball and move as a unit. that's high IQ. just holding the ball and watching others move around you isn't


Lebron never evolved past "bron-ball" (offense revolves around him)

Young Jordan used to play "bron-ball" too before he learned how to win (organic), while Lebron still plays bron-ball, so he never learned how to win and only knows how to team-hop.

Jordan had to learn to score more strategically to learn how to win, while Lebron needs to learn to be an assist target to open up the ball movement.. Jordan obviously fixed his flaws and learned how to win, while Lebron still plays bron-ball, so he needs to team-hop for super-teams and/or 1b's.

[Johnny32]

i love how the disgusting casuals on this board think the 2020 lakers played bron ball lol.

[3ba11]

i love how the disgusting casuals on this board think the 2020 lakers played bron ball lol.


AD was the top producer on the 2020 Lakers - he actually led the league in playoff scoring while lifting a lottery team to champion (lakers were lottery in 19').

So of course it was AD-ball - no one is denying that.. Ultimately, we already know that Lebron never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer.. And he never had a #1 offense despite the most offensive help ever - his offenses drastically underachieve their talent because Bron-ball is westbrooking and sucks.

And Lebron actually started at PG in 2020 - so that isn't Bron-ball because Bron-ball entails Lebron starting at forward and then becoming a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. These 2-point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, which results in low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level.

[Johnny32]

AD was the top producer on the 2020 Lakers - he actually led the league in playoff scoring while lifting a lottery team to champion (lakers were lottery in 19').

2020 nba finals

legoat - 30, 12, 9 on 59%
ad - 25, 11, 3 on 57%

ad was great...lebron was greater.

[3ba11]

2020 nba finals

legoat - 30, 12, 9 on 59%
ad - 25, 11, 3 on 57%

ad was great...lebron was greater.


AD was MVP if the real Finals vs Denver where he dominated the 2021 MVP.. Otoh, Bron-ball was sufficient to beat the trash East and a 1-off lucky team like the Heat.

AD led the Lakers all year and in the playoffs, so Lebron never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer




2020 nba finals

legoat - 30, 12, 9 on 59%
ad - 25, 11, 3 on 57%

ad was great...lebron was greater.


Lebron never evolved past "bron-ball" (offense revolves around him)

Young Jordan used to play "bron-ball" too before he learned how to win (organic), whereas Lebron still plays bron-ball, so he never learned how to win and only knows how to team-hop.

Jordan had to learn to score more strategically to learn how to win, while Lebron needs to learn to be an assist target to open up the ball movement.. Jordan obviously fixed his flaws and learned how to win, while Lebron still plays bron-ball, so he needs to team-hop for super-teams and/or 1b's.

[3ba11]

Imagine playing like a taller Westbrook your entire career (never evolving), but fooling everyone into thinking you're a "genius" by forming super-teams - this gets you the ring hardware to confirm people's bias or preconceived notion (that he's a genius player)

[3ba11]

And see that's the thing - AD lifted a lottery team to champion by being the top producer all year for the Lakers while also turning their defense from last to 1st and leading the entire league in playoff scoring.

Meanwhile, guys like Wade has FMVP's and Finals rubs as 1st option (11'), or Kyrie outplayed the only unanimous league MVP in the Finals...

Meanwhile, guys like Dirk and Giannis have all-time performances to hang their hat on too.

So everyone that's in the top 75 or even considered for it has all-time performances to support their all-time ranking ...... Except Pippen.... He never dominated any series and peaked at 16-22 ppg and 5 assists.. His stats reflect him facing zero defensive attention because he never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series.

[Johnny32]

lol the 2017 cavs had one of the greatest offenses of all time. you're desperately deflecting again though as this isn't the point. the point is lebron won a championship and finals mvp with a mediocre to bad 3pt shooting team that was second in the league in post-up possessions. bron ball narrative destroyed.

[TheCorporation]

2020 nba finals

legoat - 30, 12, 9 on 59%
ad - 25, 11, 3 on 57%

ad was great...lebron was greater.

Stings these bois with each factoid :lol They go running once they're defeated and it's quite glorious. Nice work Johnny32 :cheers:

[RogueBorg]

2020 nba finals

legoat - 30, 12, 9 on 59%
ad - 25, 11, 3 on 57%

ad was great...lebron was greater.

Who led the Lakers in scoring and FG% throughout the 2020 playoffs?

[HunterSThompson]

Lebron played better than AD offensively vs the 5th seed heat with half their lineup injured.

if there was a playoff mvp like hockey AD gets it

AD still controlled the series defensively and probly shoulda still won finals mvp tbh

[Johnny32]

it's funny watching the hurrr, 6-0, durrr crowd try to downplay the finals in this case.

[HunterSThompson]

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sorry little fella but someone's gonna have to quote you for me to see your trash post

[RogueBorg]

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sorry little fella but someone's gonna have to quote you for me to see your trash post

He didn't post anything worth reading.

[Johnny32]

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sorry little fella but someone's gonna have to quote you for me to see your trash post

lol you literally stole this post from me. it's exactly how i trolled the nerds on ag. even took the lil fella. embarrassing man. if we were in yahoo chat i'd boot you...again.

[Wally450]

his court vision is high. basketball IQ? very low


his ball pounding stagnating offense is low IQ


his off ball skills are also low IQ

and his on ball defense is definitely low IQ


footwork = low IQ


decision making under pressure = low IQ


his squad building = low IQ


how he uses his superstar teammates = low IQ


his hairline = low IQ


his steroid abuse = low IQ


his race baiting liberal BLM bullshit = low IQ

selling out to China = low IQ





should I go on?

So you're saying LeBron is a terrible basketball player?

[HunterSThompson]

So you're saying LeBron is a terrible basketball player?

no. he was very dominant at driving with stiff arms with the older softer rules and drew enough defensive attention to hit a wide open guy for a three. and he was smart how he manipulated other stars to sacrifice their careers to become his sidekicks

hes got a huge fan base too. I put him top 6 all time in multiple threads the past few weeks and spent 20k on his rookies this month

[1987_Lakers]

https://i.insider.com/5489bc0a6bb3f784566de62f

Good post.

[AirBonner]

4chips 4fmvp 4mvp is not dominant apparently

[HunterSThompson]

4chips 4fmvp 4mvp is not dominant apparently

nobody respects his "4chips" or "4fmvp" cause he ring chased/colluded, got bailed out, got guys suspended, won in lockout/bubble years



and mvps are just a popularity contest. hence villains like kobe, shaq, durant all only having 1 award



lebrons top 6 all time based on respect and individual dominance but his resume is bogus

[AirBonner]

Only a few loud unemployed posters don’t respect it

[HunterSThompson]

Only a few loud unemployed posters don’t respect it

almost every single legend/player/coach or person involved in the nba has kobe ranked ahead of lebron still for the very reasons i brought up. if lebron had zero asterisks and won the right way and did the right things then there wouldn't be so many people unwilling to vault him higher all time than 5th or 6th

if lebrons career was legit he would probably be ranked ahead of kobe. he has the resume. just not the respect to go with it. we all know hes great though. top 6 probly. but not top 2 or goat like message board geeks and sports writers have him

[AirBonner]

almost every single legend/player/coach or person involved in the nba has kobe ranked ahead of lebron still for the very reasons i brought up. if lebron had zero asterisks and won the right way and did the right things then there wouldn't be so many people unwilling to vault him higher all time than 5th or 6th

if lebrons career was legit he would probably be ranked ahead of kobe. he has the resume. just not the respect to go with it. we all know hes great though. top 6 probly. but not top 2 or goat like message board geeks and sports writers have him

He is ranked above Kobe

[3ba11]

lol the 2017 cavs had one of the greatest offenses of all time. you're desperately deflecting again though as this isn't the point. the point is lebron won a championship and finals mvp with a mediocre to bad 3pt shooting team that was second in the league in post-up possessions. bron ball narrative destroyed.


The 2017 Cavs were barely a top 5 offense in 2017, let alone a top offense of all-time.. so keep dreaming.. The 2017 Cavs offensive rating doesn't even rank top 30 all-time, while Jordan has many offenses that ranked in the top 10 or top 5 all-time.

Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades of playing despite some of the best offensive help ever.. otoh, MJ had four #1 offenses despite playing 4 on 5 with rodman and pippen usually stinking up the joint with weak ppg and worst-ever efficiency or clutch.

[HunterSThompson]

He is ranked above Kobe

yeah like i said by you, henry abbott, shannon sharpe, nick wright, steve wheels/corp/pipnrodman, lakers1987, some realgm posters, isiah thomas and julius erving


thats not a good list.


almost every other person, player, legend, coach has kobe ranked higher including every teammate lebrons ever had outside of ryan hollins

[HunterSThompson]

Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Kyrie Irving
Anthony Davis


all have said Kobe Bryant is better than lebron



imagine if shaq, gasol, fisher, horry all said lebron was better than kobe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y&ab_channel=ColdbloodedClips

[Hey Yo]

Kobe won the right way by refusing to play for the lottery team that wanted to draft him.

:durantunimpressed:

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe won the right way by refusing to play for the lottery team that wanted to draft him.

:durantunimpressed:

theres no shame in a 17 year old rookie wanting to play for the lakers pre shaq when they weren't even a top 10 team. enough with that lame argument lol

[HunterSThompson]

without magics 22 wins added on a near 70% win rate the 95-96 lakers don't even sniff the playoffs

[AirBonner]

Kobe only has 1 mvp. MJ has many more. His clone failed him

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe only has 1 mvp. MJ has many more. His clone failed him

kobe was a rapist and was left off of 8 ballots during his best individual season

durant will be another snubbed villain that might make the top 5 with only 1 mvp

[HunterSThompson]

all an mvp means is you were a top 3-5 player on a top 1-3 team and you had the best selling story or were the most popular


its basically no different than an all nba 1st team selection

[Hey Yo]

theres no shame in a 17 year old rookie wanting to play for the lakers pre shaq when they weren't even a top 10 team. enough with that lame argument lol

Signing with the 17 win Cavs and making them a contender over a 7yr period >>>>>> refusing to play for a better lottery team cause he was scared of the challenge of making them a contender.

It's quite obvious that Kobe knew he wasnt starter material. That's why he chose riding the bench for LA his first 2 seasons, instead of being the starting SG for NJ his rookie year.

[tpols]

Westbrooking. :oldlol: I love that its become a verb.

Westbrooking

verb
1. A colloquial term in basketball to describe low level, playground style of play centered around one distributor.
Used in a sentence: "Player X had great individual stats but inferior team results due to Westbrooking."

[Hey Yo]

without magics 22 wins added on a near 70% win rate the 95-96 lakers don't even sniff the playoffs

Magic started 9 of 32gms.

Try again

[Johnny32]

The 2017 Cavs were barely a top 5 offense in 2017, let alone a top offense of all-time.. so keep dreaming.. The 2017 Cavs offensive rating doesn't even rank top 30 all-time, while Jordan has many offenses that ranked in the top 10 or top 5 all-time.

Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades of playing despite some of the best offensive help ever.. otoh, MJ had four #1 offenses despite playing 4 on 5 with rodman and pippen usually stinking up the joint with weak ppg and worst-ever efficiency or clutch.

The Cavaliers are scoring 123.2 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs – on pace to smash the record in the 16-team postseason format (enacted in 1984). The difference between Cleveland’s offensive rating and No. 2 (1987 Lakers, 120.3) is greater than the difference between No. 2 and No. 11.

lol k

[HunterSThompson]

Magic started 9 of 32gms.

Try again

and played 30mpg averaging 15/6/7 and they were obviously better for it cause their win% without magic dropped 10%

[Hey Yo]

and played 30mpg averaging 15/6/7 and they were obviously better for it cause their win% without magic dropped 10%

Still doesnt change the fact that Kobe was scared to be a starter for NJ and try to make them a contender and had no problem riding the bench for LA.

[HunterSThompson]

Signing with the 17 win Cavs and making them a contender over a 7yr period >>>>>> refusing to play for a better lottery team cause he was scared of the challenge of making them a contender.

It's quite obvious that Kobe knew he wasnt starter material. That's why he chose riding the bench for LA his first 2 seasons, instead of being the starting SG for NJ his rookie year.

lebron overall was a major failure for cleveland

2004 - lottery
2005 - lottery
2006 - trash
2007 - swept in finals/quit
2008 - owned
2009 - lost with HCA to dwight
2010 - quit last 3 games vs boston and quit on the franchise
2015 - lost finals mvp to a role player
2016 - fake suspension/bail out ring
2017 - joke in the finals
2018 - swept in the finals, quit on the franchise again


the cavs are still looked at as a joke. nobody wants to go there still.


lebron never even elevated their status. he chose to instead ring chase in miami and LA than to give the cavs relevance

[Hey Yo]

Trying to build a shit franchise into a contender >>>>> don't draft me cause I'm scared of the challenge of trying to build a contender.

Trying >>> choosing to ride the bench.

[AirBonner]

LeBron has the goat iq unanimous

[Hey Yo]

Kobe after his 3rd season as first option



"I want traded" .... aka "trying to build a contender is too hard"

[PP34Deuce]

lebron overall was a major failure for cleveland

2004 - lottery
2005 - lottery
2006 - trash
2007 - swept in finals/quit
2008 - owned
2009 - lost with HCA to dwight
2010 - quit last 3 games vs boston and quit on the franchise
2015 - lost finals mvp to a role player
2016 - fake suspension/bail out ring
2017 - joke in the finals
2018 - swept in the finals, quit on the franchise again


the cavs are still looked at as a joke. nobody wants to go there still.


lebron never even elevated their status. he chose to instead ring chase in miami and LA than to give the cavs relevance

Actually Cavs are successful. They made money and they were winning. They had tv deals... lebron brought that. They went from a 477M networth to 1.5B. People seem to think organizations care about a bunch of titles. They care about winning and raising the net worth of the team. Lebron was a big part of that.

So while you can say they didn't win but 1 title. They went to the finals and enjoyed success as a whole. Making it to the big game is different from getting bounced in the first round or 2nd round.

[3ba11]

The Cavaliers are scoring 123.2 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs – on pace to smash the record in the 16-team postseason format (enacted in 1984). The difference between Cleveland’s offensive rating and No. 2 (1987 Lakers, 120.3) is greater than the difference between No. 2 and No. 11.

lol k


Playoffs don't count because that's opponent-dependant and series-dependant - some series have really fast pace and easy scoring, while others are defensive slugfest.. This wide variation between series is why regular season ORTG and DRTG's are used when discussing team offense and defense, since that's against the same opposition and a big sample

[tpols]

The Cavaliers are scoring 123.2 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs – on pace to smash the record in the 16-team postseason format (enacted in 1984). The difference between Cleveland’s offensive rating and No. 2 (1987 Lakers, 120.3) is greater than the difference between No. 2 and No. 11.

lol k

That was an article from when the Cavs were romping through the shitty eastern conference. Facing derozan in the ECFs when he can't even make the playoffs out west. What's the Cavs record against the west in the playoffs? Dog shit.

Its like... Deontay wilder or something... A knock out artist who fights pies and is extremely proficient at his inferior brand of boxing. But when faced with a similarly talented opponent who is actually SKILLED and fights a high level brand... he gets totally wiped.

[HunterSThompson]

Actually Cavs are successful. They made money and they were winning. They had tv deals... lebron brought that. They went from a 477M networth to 1.5B. People seem to think organizations care about a bunch of titles. They care about winning and raising the net worth of the team. Lebron was a big part of that.

So while you can say they didn't win but 1 title. They went to the finals and enjoyed success as a whole. Making it to the big game is different from getting bounced in the first round or 2nd round.

lebron never elevated the cavs

he had a blip. but they're back to irrelevance

after jordan retired from the bulls they sold out for like 15 straight seasons

that's how you elevate a team even when they can't get back to that level

[Johnny32]

That was an article from when the Cavs were romping through the shitty eastern conference. Facing derozan in the ECFs when he can't even make the playoffs out west. What's the Cavs record against the west in the playoffs? Dog shit.

Its like... Deontay wilder or something... A knock out artist who fights pies and is extremely proficient at his inferior brand of boxing. But when faced with a similarly talented opponent who is actually SKILLED and fights a high level brand... he gets totally wiped.

the cavs had a higher ortg than gsw in the playoffs lol. they were a goat offensive team that had bad defenders and lebron on the other end.

[tpols]

the cavs had a higher ortg than gsw in the playoffs lol. they were a goat offensive team that had bad defenders and lebron on the other end.

The Cavs played pies while golden state had to deal with teams like the dynasty thunder. What's LeBron record head to head vs Durant in the playoffs? Comparing that to derozan? Its a joke. And I like derozan but he's just a middling all star type.

Imagine the Cavs facing the spurs and thunder and Durant just to make the Finals and then face GSW. They'd never survive that gauntlet.

[Johnny32]

current or former all def team players the 97 cavs faced in their playoff run.

pg13
lowry
ibaka
bradley
horford
dray
iggy
klay

for comparison sake. current or former all def team players the 98 bulls faced in their run.

phills
mason
mckey
stockton
malone

[Round Mound]

He does have one of the best passing IQs but i would also mention Bird: probably the highest stationary IQ, Magic, Stockton and defensively Bill Russell.

[kawhileonard2]

imagine desperately trying to downplay the effectiveness of a "strategy" that led to 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

Switching teams and joining multiple stars

[PP34Deuce]

lebron never elevated the cavs

he had a blip. but they're back to irrelevance

after jordan retired from the bulls they sold out for like 15 straight seasons

that's how you elevate a team even when they can't get back to that level

Chicago is a big market even if the ownership has been cheap historically. There's also more people in Chicago as well as higher salaries and suburban people who will vuy tickets .

Cleveland is gritty. The fact that team went from 476M to 1.5B speaks to the lebron effect. He elevated Dan Gilbert's pockets and net worth if the Cavs.

He won despite inconsistent coaches and bad roster moves .

[RogueBorg]

LeBron has the goat iq unanimous

Lebron didn't know he had a TO left in game 1 of the 2018 NBA Finals. He's not that smart.

[Johnny32]

Switching teams and joining multiple stars

is this supposed to be a negative? seems to me it proves "bron ball" can win with various second options and coaches. unlike that other guy.

[hateraid]

his court vision is high. basketball IQ? very low


his ball pounding stagnating offense is low IQ


his off ball skills are also low IQ

and his on ball defense is definitely low IQ


footwork = low IQ


decision making under pressure = low IQ


his squad building = low IQ


how he uses his superstar teammates = low IQ


his hairline = low IQ


his steroid abuse = low IQ


his race baiting liberal BLM bullshit = low IQ

selling out to China = low IQ





should I go on?

Very fair and balanced.

[hateraid]

The way he processes the game on court is up there but I wouldn't say GOAT. His athleticism negates some of that IQ.
But his memory of plays is astonishing. He remembers every play he has every been involved in since entering the league. That's freaky. He's like Tony Romo.

GOAT IQ to me are players like Stockton, Kidd or Magic who can improvise on the fly and process the game at top speed but have the ability to slow it down.

[PP34Deuce]

I've always seen it like

Bird magic kidd

Then you have bron rondo cp3 level.

[Round Mound]

I've always seen it like

Bird magic kidd

Then you have bron rondo cp3 level.

You are right i forgot about Jaspn Kidd. He was one of my favorite players of the 90's. I stopped watching the NBA after 1998 and began watching again 2008 onwards. Kidd was awesome.

[Gohan]

You are right i forgot about Jaspn Kidd. He was one of my favorite players of the 90's. I stopped watching the NBA after 1998 and began watching again 2008 onwards. Kidd was awesome.

Dawg you missed iverson to watch the lebron era? Bad choice

[3ba11]

You are right i forgot about Jaspn Kidd. He was one of my favorite players of the 90's. I stopped watching the NBA after 1998 and began watching again 2008 onwards. Kidd was awesome.


The difference is that Kidd started at PG, so his ball-dominance was normal for the position, while Lebron starts in the frontcourt, so he turns a normally high-assisted position into a low-assisted one, thereby lowering the assist capacity of his teams (low assist teams)

It's infact quite dumb

[Johnny32]

The difference is that Kidd started at PG, so his ball-dominance was normal for the position, while Lebron starts in the frontcourt, so he turns a normally high-assisted position into a low-assisted one, thereby lowering the assist capacity of his teams (low assist teams)

It's infact quite dumb

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.

[Baller789]

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.

Was the conference he played with Miami and Cleveland:

A. Significantly weaker than the Western Conference
B. Significantly stronger than the Western Conference
C. Both Conferences are equal

[Johnny32]

hurrr, lebron should have let eric snow run the offense, or daniel gibson, or mo williams, or mario chalmers, or shoot first flat earther kyrie, durrr.

[Baller789]

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.


Was the conference he played with Miami and Cleveland:

A. Significantly weaker than the Western Conference
B. Significantly stronger than the Western Conference
C. Both Conferences are equal


hurrr, lebron should have let eric snow run the offense, or daniel gibson, or mo williams, or mario chalmers, or shoot first flat earther kyrie, durrr.

Answer the question slick.

[3ba11]

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.


Lebron's ball-dominance (inferior strategy to ball movement and high assist teams) has low team ceiling/Finals records, regardless of cast.

Furthermore, Lebron forming a super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning is what manufactured the Finals streak after his westbrooking lost as the league favorite in 09' and 10'.

Just ask yourself, "when did the Finals streak begin?"... Answer: "after the "decision" to form super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning".

[Johnny32]

Lebron's ball-dominance (inferior strategy to ball movement and high assist teams) has low team ceiling/Finals records, regardless of cast.

Furthermore, Lebron forming a super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning is what manufactured the Finals streak after his westbrooking lost as the league favorite in 09' and 10'.

Just ask yourself, "when did the Finals streak begin?"... Answer: "after the "decision" to form super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning".

hurrr, the celtics with pierce, kg, allen, and rondo were a one star team, durrr.

[3ba11]

hurrr, the celtics with pierce, kg, allen, and rondo were a one star team, durrr.


Lebron lost as the favorite to 1-star teams in 2009 and 2011

In the 2010 ECSF, he faced a post-Garnett injury team where Rondo was the 1st option at 21/6/12 on 54% and outplayed Lebron, who averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to choke the series away as the favorite.

The bum lost as the favorite three years in a row (09-11') before Wade finally got through to him on how to handle pressure and win the big possessions.

Ultimately, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was better than Pippen offensively across the board (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, scoring, efficiency) - this matters because it means that Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost in 2010 despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.

[Johnny32]

Lebron lost as the favorite to 1-star teams in 2009 and 2011

In the 2010 ECSF, he faced a post-Garnett injury team where Rondo was the 1st option at 21/6/12 on 54% and outplayed Lebron, who averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to choke the series away as the favorite.

you said conference...nice desperate attempt to include 2011.

legoat vs orl - 39, 8, 8 on 59 ts%.

it was definitely his fault.

[SATAN]

you said conference...nice desperate attempt to include 2011.

legoat vs orl - 39, 8, 8 on 59 ts%.

it was definitely his fault.

:lol

Also 1-9.

[3ba11]

you said conference...nice desperate attempt to include 2011.

legoat vs orl - 39, 8, 8 on 59 ts%.

it was definitely his fault.


In the 2009 ECF, Lebron's high scoring was too ball-dominant to win (westbrooking).. That's one of the reasons he can't beat good teams with high scoring (too ball-dominant, inferior strategy).

Since Lebron can't beat good teams with high scoring, he can't have carry-jobs against good teams like Orlando... Specifically, he never carried the scoring load in a Finals win and he never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).

[Johnny32]

In the 2009 ECF, Lebron's high scoring was too ball-dominant to win (westbrooking).. That's one of the reasons he can't beat good teams with high scoring (too ball-dominant, inferior strategy).

lol he beat multiple teams in the finals better than any mj faced.

[3ba11]

lol he beat multiple teams in the finals better than any mj faced.


Lebron had sidekicks that matched his scoring for entire playoff runs (1b's) and he had 3rd all-star teammates (super-teams).

If Jordan had a 3rd all-star teammate like Lebron, or an elite-producing sidekick (1b), he would beat any team in history.

People forget that Lebron hand-picked the on-paper/preseason favorite from 2011-2016 (the talent favorite) but weak brand of ball caused them to fall to underdog or loser in the Finals every year.. Despite the losses, Lebron's super-teams were so unfair from a talent standpoint that KD had to join Steph/Klay to supercede them.

[Johnny32]

Lebron had sidekicks that matched his scoring for entire playoff runs (1b's) and he had 3rd all-star teammates (super-teams).

If Jordan had a 3rd all-star teammate like Lebron, or an elite-producing sidekick (1b), he would beat any team in history.

People forget that Lebron hand-picked the on-paper/preseason favorite from 2011-2016 (the talent favorite) but weak brand of ball caused them to fall to underdog or loser in the Finals every year.. Despite the losses, Lebron's super-teams were so unfair from a talent standpoint that KD had to join Steph/Klay to supercede them.

you don't need a third offensive star when your opponent was scoring 54 points in a finals gm

90s basketball!

[Baller789]

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.


Was the conference he played with Miami and Cleveland:

A. Significantly weaker than the Western Conference
B. Significantly stronger than the Western Conference
C. Both Conferences are equal


lol he beat multiple teams in the finals better than any mj faced.

What happened slick?
Cat got your tongue?

[Johnny32]

beg for attention elsewhere, weirdo.

[3ba11]

you don't need a third offensive star when your opponent was scoring 54 points in a finals gm

90s basketball!


Jordan won 2 Finals against opponents that had 3 all-stars (93' Suns and 96' Sonics)

He also led a low seed in 1989 over the #1 SRS team in the league who had 3 perennial all-stars plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper.

How many low seeds did Lebron carry on deep runs

[Johnny32]

Jordan won 2 Finals against opponents that had 3 all-stars (93' Suns and 96' Sonics)

He also led a low seed in 1989 over the #1 SRS team in the league who had 3 perennial all-stars plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper.

How many low seeds did Lebron carry on deep runs

1993 finals.

pippen - 21, 9, 8 on 44%
kj - 17, 7, 3 on 42%

he clearly had the better second option. he also had pippen and grant leading the team defensively. both with better DRtg than mj.

[Johnny32]

you don't want to talk about the 96 finals and what gp did to mj. it was bad. real bad.

[Johnny32]

as far as 89 goes...we were talking about finals opponents not 1st rd opp's. congrats to mj on getting out of the first rd for the second consecutive season though. it was a real struggle there for a few.

[3ba11]

1993 finals.

pippen - 21, 9, 8 on 44%
kj - 17, 7, 3 on 42%

he clearly had the better second option. he also had pippen and grant leading the team defensively. both with better DRtg than mj.


Pippen shot 45% true shooting, so Majerle had higher gamescore and also averaged 17 like KJ, while rookie Dumas killed Pippen for 16 on 57% as 4th option - that's 4 scoring options for the Suns, so they were far more stacked than the Bulls, who needed 41 from MJ ..

Furthermore, KJ was a 20/10 guy (better scorer, passer, leader than Pippen), and he routinely won 55 games with WCF appearances before Barkley arrived, including an upset of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in 1990 - Pippen isn't capable of 20/10 or routinely winning 55 with conference finals.

KJ also averaged 28/6/9 in two 7-game series against the champion Rockets in 94' and 95', including two 45-point games.. He was 1st option over a bed-wetting Barkley, while Pippen was 3rd option behind fossil Barkley in 99' (14 ppg)

[Johnny32]

majerle also had a better ORtg than mj. nerd stats are fun. i wonder who was guarding him? we know what happens when mj tries to guard kj (see below) so i'm guessing he was hiding on dan and got torched?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9gSR52YzAA&ab_channel=SportAttitude

[3ba11]

majerle also had a better ORtg than mj. nerd stats are fun. i wonder who was guarding him? we know what happens when mj tries to guard kj (see below) so i'm guessing he was hiding on dan and got torched?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9gSR52YzAA&ab_channel=SportAttitude


The Suns had 3 all-stars and 4 guys at 16 ppg or more - 4 scoring options - so they were far more stacked than the Bulls, who had 1 consistent and efficient option

the Bulls' 2nd option was shooting 45% true shooting on 2nd option volume, which killed the Bulls and forced MJ to average 41

[Johnny32]

The Suns had 3 all-stars and 4 guys at 16 ppg or more - 4 scoring options - so they were far more stacked than the Bulls, who had 1 consistent and efficient option

the Bulls' 2nd option was shooting 45% true shooting on 2nd option volume, which killed the Bulls and forced MJ to average 41

lol no one cares about all star voting. all nba/all def help or stfu already.

[3ba11]

lol no one cares about all star voting. all nba/all def help or stfu already.


KJ was a 20/10 guy (better scorer, passer, leader than Pippen), and he routinely won 55 games with WCF appearances before Barkley arrived, including an upset of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in 1990 - Pippen isn't capable of 20/10 or routinely winning 55 and conference finals.

KJ also averaged 28/6/9 in two 7-game series against the champion Rockets in 94' and 95', including two 45-point games.. He was 1st option over a bed-wetting Barkley, while Pippen was 3rd option behind fossil Barkley in 99' (14 ppg)

[1987_Lakers]

KJ was a 20/10 guy (better scorer, passer, leader than Pippen), and he routinely won 55 games with WCF appearances before Barkley arrived, including an upset of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in 1990 - Pippen isn't capable of 20/10 or routinely winning 55 and conference finals.

KJ also averaged 28/6/9 in two 7-game series against the champion Rockets in 94' and 95', including two 45-point games.. He was 1st option over a bed-wetting Barkley, while Pippen was 3rd option behind fossil Barkley in 99' (14 ppg)

And he still got outplayed by Pippen in the Finals.

[Axe]

Op in a nutshell 💩

https://art.ngfiles.com/images/400000/400033_sillybeans_hey-i-m-mr-meeseeks.gif?f1453137854

[ELITEpower23]

majerle also had a better ORtg than mj. nerd stats are fun. i wonder who was guarding him? we know what happens when mj tries to guard kj (see below) so i'm guessing he was hiding on dan and got torched?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9gSR52YzAA&ab_channel=SportAttitude

:oldlol: Roasted

[kawhileonard2]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher



Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED



Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.

[Baller789]

so dumb it resulted in 9 finals appearances in 10 years.

LeBigTimeDumb.


Was the conference he played with Miami and Cleveland:

A. Significantly weaker than the Western Conference
B. Significantly stronger than the Western Conference
C. Both Conferences are equal


beg for attention elsewhere, weirdo.

You made a truth claim. So I'm here to challenge that.
Is it A, B, or C?

You were a cocky dolt a while back, now you look like a whimpering fool.

[Airupthere]

Is playing hot potato called high IQ bball?

[3ba11]

And he still got outplayed by Pippen in the Finals.


KJ was hurt in 93' but if KJ was his normal self that dominated Magic in 1990 or Hakeem in 94' and 95', then the Bulls would've lost easily... Because Pippen shot 45% true shooting and therefore couldn't handle the load he was given, let alone a bigger load to handle a healthy KJ..

Ultimately, the stats and performance show that Pippen was a weaker scorer, passer and leader than KJ, who achieved elite stats and dominated the best players in the league, while Pippen literally never dominated and was always a 2nd-tier producer (never 20/10)..

[Johnny32]

lebump for 3tard.

[3ba11]

lebump for 3tard.


You misunderstand

[Johnny32]

"He was out there just making plays," Williams told reporters. "He was making plays with his mind, with his communication, even when he didn't have the ball. When he was off-ball, he was calling out our plays, telling guys where to be and what was coming next. You can tell that he watches a lot of film."

"We beat them a couple of times when he was in Cleveland. He was not that way," Rivers said. "I've never seen a change in a player [like James]. I knew we were in trouble in Miami when we were coaching. When he was in Cleveland, he was just playing basketball. We get to Miami, and he's in Miami now, and he's calling our plays out, he's staring over at our bench, he's reading stuff. I remember saying, 'This is not good.'"

"The [smartest] player to coach against, and one of the most difficult, going through him in the playoffs, was LeBron James," Casey said. "This guy was looking in your mouth right there and just calling it. He was telling the players exactly what was gonna happen on the play that you called."

"I remember it was a play we was trying to run and one of our teammates forgot the play, and 'Bron told him the play," DeRozan said. "Like, it was some crazy s---. We calling a play, and [the Raptors teammate] was like, 'What?' And 'Bron told him what our play was.

"I was in the gym when I watched him on the floor against Toronto tell Patrick Patterson where he was supposed to go on the play they had called out of a timeout late in the fourth quarter. He was like 'No Pat, you're supposed to stand over there and set a pin down for DeMar [DeRozan] over here.'"

Scott Brooks talking about how smart LeBron is. He said sometimes he calls out fake plays to try to deceive other teams, and when he’s done it against LeBron’s teams, LeBron has responded, “You guys don’t have that play!”

"He's so cerebral. We used to joke that he was a computer on learning mode. He's such a savant, and he figures out the angles to such a huge degree that it's not a surprise he's figured to game the system a little bit." Griffin added: "There's literally nothing you can show him that he can't do. There's no play you'll run against him he can't name, and then go out there and teach your players how to do it better than anyone else."

"It might be his biggest superpower, his ability to get everybody on the same page. Like, it's actually kind of scary," Shumpert said. "He can explain this game forward and back. It's unbelievable. You talk about someone who knows the playbook, knows where everybody's supposed to be, knows the other teams' coaches' playbook, style of coaching, how his ball club is gonna play. 'Bron's one of them. "Like, we'll be going into Philly tonight, he'll be like, 'They just hired their new defensive coach, but he was at Georgetown for three years, and I played for him one time at camp, and this is how he's gonna play us.' And you're like, 'What?"

"He knows everybody," Cook told Sports Illustrated's Melissa Rohlin. "[It] could be last guy on the bench on the team, but he knows he's left-handed, he's a shooter, don't go under him, he's a driver, stuff like that. He pays attention to the game, he watches the game, and he studies."

It appears so.

off the charts basketball iq. no one is even close to this level.

[3ba11]

off the charts basketball iq. no one is even close to this level.



Your long post says that Lebron has a good memory.. That's it.. He memorizes plays.. big whoop

Memory doesn't equal IQ.

This is a great example of the fraud - pretending nothing is something

Lebron lacks understanding of teammate fits, teammate development, chemistry and brand of ball, so he can't win organically and must be a talent-based winner (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win.. Zero rookies or young players developed into viable producers on his watch, while his Luka-style skillset has the worst teammate fits in history.. so he can't win organically and must be a talent-based winner (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)

[Johnny32]

imagine desperately trying to argue with the massive amount of evidence in the op...why i quoted it again cuz they can't lol.

[3ba11]

imagine desperately trying to argue with the massive amount of evidence in the op...why i quoted it again cuz they can't lol.


Your long post says that Lebron memorizes plays

That's nothing

Lebron doesn't understand good basketball and gets beat by better brands of ball - this confirms that he has low IQ compared to the Spurs or Warriors

He doesn't understand ball movement, teammate fits or teammate development, so he can't win organically and must be a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy)

How many young players or rookies developed into viable producers on his watch? (Zero)... How many guys cratered alongside him? (Tons)

[HoopsNY]

Definitely up there with Bird, Magic, MJ, Kareem, etc. LeBron has a phenomenal basketball IQ I think. Just look at the teammates he's able to find in transition or on cuts. Yes, it might take a while for the play to develop, but he does find ways to locate the open man; that takes exceptional court vision and precision when passing, especially in transition.

[3ba11]

Definitely up there with Bird, Magic, MJ, Kareem, etc. LeBron has a phenomenal basketball IQ I think. Just look at the teammates he's able to find in transition or on cuts. Yes, it might take a while for the play to develop, but he does find ways to locate the open man; that takes exceptional court vision and precision when passing, especially in transition.


Which rookies or young players developed into viable producers on his watch?

Surely a smart player like Lebron has a significant record of developing young players

And surely his teams are recognized as the smart teams that "play the right way" like the Warriors or Spurs

Surely he has high assist teams and teammates play to capacity alongside him (good fits)

So no .. Lebron can't do any of these things (no teammate development, no good fits or chemistry, and garbage brand of ball/low assist teams)...

So he's literally a DUMB player that must be a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy.. team-hopping)

[2much_knowledge]

Jason kidd >

[Johnny32]

LeBron > Jason kidd > JorDone

lefax

[Full Court]

So high IQ that he convened a war room and stacked his super team with Westbrook. :lol

[Round Mound]

Magic has the highest IQ in a fast tempo offensive game. Bird has the highest IQ in a half court slow game. Bill Russell the highest defensive IQ.

[Baller789]

So high IQ that he convened a war room and stacked his super team with Westbrook. :lol

TF!? Dont do em dirty like that! :biggums:

[72-10]

Don't forget Adam Keefe with his 158 overall IQ (32nd in the world) and 202 math IQ (16th in the world).

[TheMan]

LeGM thought Westbrook would be a good fit, so much for high IQ :eek:

[TheGoatest]

The fact that analysts who hate LeBron's guts praise his basketball IQ...
The fact that Team LeBron has a 5-0 record...
Then there's this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJFRl6f6s

What a friggin beast. :applause: :rockon:

[Johnny32]

Don't forget Adam Keefe with his 158 overall IQ (32nd in the world) and 202 math IQ (16th in the world).

good bump. answer is still yes.

[John8204]

Lebron is in the discussion, Larry Bird and Jerry West proved in their post NBA careers that they were brilliant men when it came to the game. Jordan, KAJ, Magic, Isiah....not so much

[TheMan]

While this is true, what's being discussed is seeing the floor, when and whom to pass the ball to, building a team and assessing talent is a completely different thing. You're not gonna convince a lot of people that Magic, KAJ, MJ and Isiah didn't have high IQ while on the court. My previous post was in jest, of course LeBron has a high IQ during the game, but he recruited Westbrook and everyone could see that two ball dominate players isn't a great fit so in all likelihood, Bron isn't shaping up to be a very good GM either

[8Ball]

good bump. answer is still yes.

Rondo has high IQ but he can't execute.


Rondo
Bron
Magic
CP3

Maybe bird.

[3ba11]

While this is true, what's being discussed is seeing the floor, when and whom to pass the ball to, building a team and assessing talent is a completely different thing. You're not gonna convince a lot of people that Magic, KAJ, MJ and Isiah didn't have high IQ while on the court. My previous post was in jest, of course LeBron has a high IQ during the game, but he recruited Westbrook and everyone could see that two ball dominate players isn't a great fit so in all likelihood, Bron isn't shaping up to be a very good GM either


Like you said - the term "IQ" is referring primarily to vision, so it's a poor term to use in this spot because "IQ" should be referring to strategy, which includes know-how and ability to fit with teammates (chemistry).. Vision is separate from these things and therefore shouldn't be called "IQ".

Lebron's "luka-style" isn't the best strategy and he has the record losses to prove it (with super-teams), or sweeps with high seeds.

The media misuses terms like "IQ" because they don't know basketball - they only understand on-paper talent - so when Lebron loses, the ONLY reason can be that he lacked sufficient supporting talent, not that the opponent (i.e. 14' Spurs) played a vastly superior brand of ball

[8Ball]

Like you said - the term "IQ" is referring primarily to vision, so it's a poor term to use in this spot because "IQ" should be referring to strategy, which includes know-how and ability to fit with teammates (chemistry).. Vision is separate from these things and therefore shouldn't be called "IQ".

Lebron's "luka-style" isn't the best strategy and he has the record losses to prove it (with super-teams), or sweeps with high seeds.

The media misuses terms like "IQ" because they don't know basketball - they only understand on-paper talent - so when Lebron loses, the ONLY reason can be that he lacked sufficient supporting talent, not that the opponent (i.e. 14' Spurs) played a vastly superior brand of ball

Nobody on earth thinks jordan has higher bb IQ than Bron.


Yet bron about to be #1 in scoring.

[colts19]

Larry Bird

This.

[colts19]

Magic has the highest IQ in a fast tempo offensive game. Bird has the highest IQ in a half court slow game. Bill Russell the highest defensive IQ.

Another great post by Round Mound.