Basketball is better today than ever. Denial of this fact is rooted in nostalgia.

[Ne 1]

The fact is more and more people that didn't have access to sports before have more access to sports now and that's world wide. Kids are learning things earlier and more frequently and working on things that they didn't work on 30 years ago. Sports, especially basketball have a bigger talent pool than ever before. And that's because scouting worldwide has expanded far beyond what it was 30 years ago. Which in turn, the talent will be better overall. The demographic in the NBA has changed drastically in the past 30 years. In most sports, as well baseball is a prime example. I understand people want to ignore that truth and it's tough to talk about but it is what it is. Overall speed, athleticism, agility, skill and talent of the entire league is 470+ is light-years superior than it was 30 years ago which in turn the competition will be better.

I can remember in the ‘80s and ‘90s in the 100m dash you may have 2-4 guys running just under 10 secs. Now running just under 10 won't really get you anywhere. Now the whole damn field is running under 10 sec. Sports and athletes have evolved. And those of us that actually participated in sports from little league to high levels we know it. All my former college teammates and former pro teammates talk about, as far as the things the kids or athletes are able to do across the board.

Most fans confuse just world athleticism from the past vs the fact that a league of 500 players have more talent and skill within those 500 players overall than ever before. And it's evidence that shows modern athletes have evolved.

[Bronbron23]

The fact is more and more people that didn't have access to sports before have more access to sports now and that's world wide. Kids are learning things earlier and more frequently and working on things that they didn't work on 30 years ago. Sports, especially basketball have a bigger talent pool than ever before. And that's because scouting worldwide has expanded far beyond what it was 30 years ago. Which in turn, the talent will be better overall. The demographic in the NBA has changed drastically in the past 30 years. In most sports, as well baseball is a prime example. I understand people want to ignore that truth and it's tough to talk about but it is what it is. Overall speed, athleticism, agility, skill and talent of the entire league is 470+ is light-years superior than it was 30 years ago which in turn the competition will be better.

I can remember in the ‘80s and ‘90s in the 100m dash you may have 2-4 guys running just under 10 secs. Now running just under 10 won't really get you anywhere. Now the whole damn field is running under 10 sec. Sports and athletes have evolved. And those of us that actually participated in sports from little league to high levels we know it. All my former college teammates and former pro teammates talk about, as far as the things the kids or athletes are able to do across the board.

Most fans confuse just world athleticism from the past vs the fact that a league of 500 players have more talent and skill within those 500 players overall than ever before. And it's evidence that shows modern athletes have evolved.

Problem with this is even if it's true it's irrelevant. This has been explained a thousand times over. Athletes aren't more athletic now compared to 30 years ago because they naturally evolved(which is a completely retarded logic btw) they're more athletic now because of better understanding of diet and training. So these factors would apply to Athletes in the 90's. If they played now they'd obviously get this benefit also. Vice versa if players now played then the opposite would be true.

You don't actually believe Athletes have evolved since 30 years ago do you?:oldlol:

[expansionera]

Hamidou Diallo would be Clyde Drexel if he played in the weak 90s

[Johnny32]

exactly. the nba talent pool being fully global is a huge factor. there was 23 foreign born players in the nba at the start of the 92 season. there was 109 at the start of this season.

[expansionera]

exactly. the nba talent pool being fully global is a huge factor. there was 23 foreign born players in the nba at the start of the 92 season. there was 109 at the start of this season.

Jordan would shit himself if he played anything resembling a Luka or Giannis, he’s only comfortable scoring over guards like Steve Kerr and Jeff Hornacek

[zeerghit]

Jordan would shit himself if he played anything resembling a Luka or Giannis, he’s only comfortable scoring over guards like Steve Kerr and Jeff Hornacek

:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

Hamidou Diallo would be Clyde Drexel if he played in the weak 90s

What a bad comparison. Did you even watch clyde? Do you watch diallo for that matter? For one they play nothing alike. Second clyde was an elite one foot jumper and diallo is an elite 2 foot jumper. He barely ever dunks off one. Show me where diallo has ever done this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cVZhRBlvf_s

Clyde was also much faster and quicker on the floor also.

[Bronbron23]

Jordan would shit himself if he played anything resembling a Luka or Giannis, he’s only comfortable scoring over guards like Steve Kerr and Jeff Hornacek

Is this for real?

[Gimmedarock]

Game is definitely more entertaining. I hate post ups. That’s just lazy and relies on height too much. Love modern spacing. The reason I think it’s better is you have so many lethal scorers now. There plenty of players capable of hitting 50 points plus on any given night. I just don’t think you had that years ago. Better shooters, better handles, and a green light to shoot. No more “this guy passes & this guy is a rebounder”. The elimination of roles really changed the game.

[3ba11]

Today's spacing produced a beginner format that yields threes and layups, so players are horrible contested shot-makers on 2-pointers and have no pure scoring ability.. It's all threes, layups and step-backs - garbage skill

Guys like Alex English had to make highly-contested 2-pointers on every play because the spacing didn't allow open looks.. Contested shots were the expectation back then (not avoided like today), so previous eras were better ball players... No-spacing is simply a tougher environment and produces better skills and shot-making ability than today's spaced out beginner format.. and superior passing too because the lack of spacing forced players to thread needles and react more instinctively

[TheCorporation]

exactly. the nba talent pool being fully global is a huge factor. there was 23 foreign born players in the nba at the start of the 92 season. there was 109 at the start of this season.

This

Only DumbShit23 doesn't get this basic fact :lol

[tontoz]

"Better" is subjective so stating it as a fact is low IQ.

Mentioning evolution is also low iq. Evolution is not something that makes a material difference in 20-30 years. :lol

Saying it is deeper is fact since there are more international players and the poplulation of the world is greater so the pool of talent is deeper.

[TheCorporation]

"Better" is subjective so stating it as a fact is low IQ.

Mentioning evolution is also low iq. Evolution is not something that makes a material difference in 20-30 years. :lol

Saying it is deeper is fact since there are more international players and the poplulation of the world is greater so the pool of talent is deeper.

I think it has to do with the combination of "evolution" as it relates to more people playing which leads to a sport drawing from a deeper talent pool. But don't get it twisted, sports talent can easily evolved over 30 years. Take the UFC for example, fighters are so much more skilled than they were 30 years ago.

[RogueBorg]

I used to be a huge college basketball fan. What turned me off was that it turned into a three-point shooting contest and got boring. The NBA has turned into this. It's not a nostalgia thing, it's the fact that this style of basketball is just boring. Sitting out past the three-point line waiting for someone to pass them the ball so they can shoot a three is not skill to me. In fact, to a large extent, I see that as a lack of skill. Yes they can shoot, but they can't do anything else. And I'm not talking about Durant, Curry, Doncic and guys like that. I'm talking about all the Duncan Robinson's of the NBA that can't do anything but shoot. It's not a nostalgia thing, it's a style thing.

[TheCorporation]

I used to be a huge college basketball fan. What turned me off was that it turned into a three-point shooting contest and got boring. The NBA has turned into this. It's not a nostalgia thing, it's the fact that this style of basketball is just boring. Sitting out past the three-point line waiting for someone to pass them the ball so they can shoot a three is not skill to me. In fact, to a large extent, I see that as a lack of skill. Yes they can shoot, but they can't do anything else. And I'm not talking about Durant, Curry, Doncic and guys like that. I'm talking about all the Duncan Robinson's of the NBA that can't do anything but shoot. It's not a nostalgia thing, it's a style thing.

How many players even knew what a Euro step was in the 90s compared to now?

[insight]

Things evolve and change but that does not mean they change for the better. Your whole evolution premiss is flawed, if you compare combine performances from 20 years ago there is no significant improvement or change. At best you could say is there is a higher number of skilled players than ever before due to the increased amount of people playing the sport and improvement is training.

[getting_old]

How many players even knew what a Euro step was in the 90s compared to now?


we all knew what it was, and practiced it all the time from the 70s to early 2000s, it's just that nobody wanted to play the game like that until recently

[RogueBorg]

we all knew what it was, and practiced it all the time from the 70s to early 2000s, it's just that nobody wanted to play the game like that until recently

Uh oh, Corporation proves once again he's clueless.

[ArbitraryWater]

Big truth, many not willing to accept.

[Ne 1]

Today's spacing produced a beginner format that yields threes and layups, so players are horrible contested shot-makers on 2-pointers and have no pure scoring ability.. It's all threes, layups and step-backs - garbage skill

Guys like Alex English had to make highly-contested 2-pointers on every play because the spacing didn't allow open looks.. Contested shots were the expectation back then (not avoided like today), so previous eras were better ball players... No-spacing is simply a tougher environment and produces better skills and shot-making ability than today's spaced out beginner format.. and superior passing too because the lack of spacing forced players to thread needles and react more instinctively

And it was one-on-one coverage most of the time in the '80s and '90s, so it was still a lot of space. I can watch multiple games where Jordan may have one guy on him and the floor is wide open or certain times he would be wide open for certain shots so space in the spacing. Defensive schemes change multiple players and different positions have changed the athleticism overall got better because the demographic of the sport change. These guys are just better. The competition is better. The skill is better. The talent is better, the talent pool is better. Alex English was good for his time but he wouldn't be a top 20 player today. He doesn't have the tools or the skill set to be a top 20 player. I can name 20 players better than him now in the league right now. Where as opposed back then he was probably a top 20 player. But that's how far the league has grown with talent and skill.

[Ne 1]

Problem with this is even if it's true it's irrelevant. This has been explained a thousand times over. Athletes aren't more athletic now compared to 30 years ago because they naturally evolved(which is a completely retarded logic btw) they're more athletic now because of better understanding of diet and training. So these factors would apply to Athletes in the 90's. If they played now they'd obviously get this benefit also. Vice versa if players now played then the opposite would be true.

You don't actually believe Athletes have evolved since 30 years ago do you?:oldlol:

The world of sports over the last 30 years overall have gotten, faster, bigger, better. I think the great athletes then would be still crazy athletes today. But even still with that, I think the overrall population of athletes have evolved. I also think the demographic change in sports overtime has evolved athletics as well, making sports faster, making basketball a faster, more skilled, more talented sport, making baseball better, tennis, golf whatever better as well. I think when you add all those components, on top of better training, better scouting, better equipment athletes will get better than they were years past. But as I said some guys are transcendent. But like A.I. said the other day, there’s about 30 bad ass dudes in the league at certain positions. It wasn't that many when he played but there were some. But he recognizes the talent and skill is better than 30 years ago.

[Bronbron23]

"Better" is subjective so stating it as a fact is low IQ.

Mentioning evolution is also low iq. Evolution is not something that makes a material difference in 20-30 years. :lol

Saying it is deeper is fact since there are more international players and the poplulation of the world is greater so the pool of talent is deeper.

This is probably the best take here and me and this dude never agree

[Bronbron23]

The world of sports over the last 30 years overall have gotten, faster, bigger, better. I think the great athletes then would be still crazy athletes today. But even still with that, I think the overrall population of athletes have evolved. I also think the demographic change in sports overtime has evolved athletics as well, making sports faster, making basketball a faster, more skilled, more talented sport, making baseball better, tennis, golf whatever better as well. I think when you add all those components, on top of better training, better scouting, better equipment athletes will get better than they were years past. But as I said some guys are transcendent. But like A.I. said the other day, there’s about 30 bad ass dudes in the league at certain positions. It wasn't that many when he played but there were some. But he recognizes the talent and skill is better than 30 years ago.

Not true especially for basketball. This is the shortest the nba has been in a while. And dude it's all training and play style. Humans have not evolved since the 90's. That's beyond ridiculous.

Again all the advantages like like the ones you mentioned that the top players today have that make them more skilled and more athletic all the players from the 80's and 90's would also have if they came up in this era.

A great example of this is looking at when tyson degrasi ran the 100m in the same shoes and same track as jesse owns did. He was a full second slower than he usually is. A full second in the 100m is a shit ton of difference.

[Round Mound]

The game today only has better 3-point shooters and role players. Players back in the 80s and early 90s where not only more fundamentaly sound but had more passion for the game. Players played injured back then and the game was alot rougher. Also shots and rebounds where way more contested.

[Johnny32]

The game today only has better 3-point shooters and role players. Players back in the 80s and early 90s where not only more fundamentaly sound but had more passion for the game. Players played injured back then and the game was alot rougher. Also shots and rebounds where way more contested.

they were far less skilled in the dino era. shooting, passing, dribbling.

[Round Mound]

they were far less skilled in the dino era. shooting, passing, dribbling.

I'll agree with the shooting and dribbling: yet they give more freedom for handling the rock today and there are more travels than ever before. The passing is not close to as good as it once was. It was much harder to spread the needle when the paint was packed with defenders contesting your shots. Anyone today can get assists cause of the three point mania. Athletics? No guy today is bigger stronger than 1992 Shaq etc.

[HylianNightmare]

The newest thing must be the best thing

[theman93]

Basketball in the 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's was better then than ever. Denial of this fact is rooted in being a prisoner of the moment.

[ELITEpower23]

I think it has to do with the combination of "evolution" as it relates to more people playing which leads to a sport drawing from a deeper talent pool. But don't get it twisted, sports talent can easily evolved over 30 years. Take the UFC for example, fighters are so much more skilled than they were 30 years ago.

Anyone got an answer?

[Spurs m8]

Op, you're a moron

Collusion, easy paths, stacking teams, 3 jacking, weak D, lack of competitive spirit makes for WAY shitter sport.

Its barely real sport at this stage....and its pretty boring a lot of the time....if you actually like real sport.

If you don't...then you make threads like this

[Spurs m8]

Basketball in the 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's was better then than ever. Denial of this fact is rooted in being a prisoner of the moment.

Exactly.

[Rysio]

There's less scrubs than it was in the past but top tier talent is on similar level.

[Soundwave]

Personally I don't think so, all physicality has been lost from the game and it creates a less intense product.

I think the best NBA is late 80s-early 90s.

Steph is great and fun to watch so is Durant, Doncic is terrific, Giannis is impressive, LeBron is good for an old guy, but I'd rather watch Jordan, Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, Barkley, DRobinson, Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Kemp, rookie Shaq than today's top players.

I just don't feel a lot of intensity in the games and also the players just laughing and high fiving each other on other teams after the game just I dunno. It doesn't feel like there are a lot of intense games any more. There's no rivalries really.

[TheGoatest]

Basketball in the 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's was better then than ever. Denial of this fact is rooted in being a prisoner of the moment.

On a purely nostalgia level, 90s is the decade I should be attached to the most, but looking at it objectively, in retrospect that decade was pure, watered down trash on every position except center. Power forward was only decent.

1992-93 Mark Price, 1993-94 Latrell Sprewell and 1996-97 Tim Hardaway are arguably the 3 worst all-NBA 1st team selections of all time. Certainly when it comes to perimeter players. None of those dudes might not even make the all-NBA 3rd team since 2010.

[TheGoatest]

There's less scrubs than it was in the past but top tier talent is on similar level.

How can you know how good the top tier talent really was in the past when they were regularly playing against scrubs, which you yourself just admitted the past had more of?

Imagine erasing the following players from the league's current existence:

Giannis
Luka
Jokic
Embiid
Gobert
Siakam
Several other decent, above average players like Nurkic, Bogdanovic, Capela, etc.

And replacing them with American college players who weren't good enough to be picked with the 50-something pick in the drafts over the last seasons. That's how the "good old days" really were.

[Soundwave]

On a purely nostalgia level, 90s is the decade I should be attached to the most, but looking at it objectively, in retrospect that decade was pure, watered down trash on every position except center. Power forward was only decent.

1992-93 Mark Price, 1993-94 Latrell Sprewell and 1996-97 Tim Hardaway are arguably the 3 worst all-NBA 1st team selections of all time. Certainly when it comes to perimeter players. None of those dudes might not even make the all-NBA 3rd team since 2010.

There was Joakim Noah in 2014, Marc Gasol in 2015, but that maybe just shows that voters were stupid or motivated by agendas in some of those years.

Mark Price was not better than John Stockton or Joe Dumars in 92-93, I think also in those days they were more strict about positions, so PG had to be a PG you couldn't just use two of the best guards.

96/97 Tim Hardaway I think only makes it because Penny Hardaway missed a bunch of games to injury and because they didn't want to give it to Iverson because he was just a rookie. Sprewell was pretty good player though.

[Marchesk]

Jordan is still > Lebron

[Axe]

On a purely nostalgia level, 90s is the decade I should be attached to the most, but looking at it objectively, in retrospect that decade was pure, watered down trash on every position except center. Power forward was only decent.

1992-93 Mark Price, 1993-94 Latrell Sprewell and 1996-97 Tim Hardaway are arguably the 3 worst all-NBA 1st team selections of all time. Certainly when it comes to perimeter players. None of those dudes might not even make the all-NBA 3rd team since 2010.
Lolol this guy says the 90s being trash but praises pip too much

[Axe]

Anyway if there's one thing that everybody should notice in the league today, it's that western teams have been perennial competitors for a long time now versus their eastern counterparts.

[999Guy]

On a purely nostalgia level, 90s is the decade I should be attached to the most, but looking at it objectively, in retrospect that decade was pure, watered down trash on every position except center. Power forward was only decent.

1992-93 Mark Price, 1993-94 Latrell Sprewell and 1996-97 Tim Hardaway are arguably the 3 worst all-NBA 1st team selections of all time. Certainly when it comes to perimeter players. None of those dudes might not even make the all-NBA 3rd team since 2010.

Or even who was an all-star in 1996. Vin Baker, Glen Rice, Juwan Howard, ****ing Sean Elliott even made it.

The 90’s were weak. Once the real stars got old by the late 90’s and started leaving their prime, this became very clear.

When Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Garnett etc got old, your had a ton of new blood immediately and seamlessly filling it in.

11-15 was something of a mini dark period but look at all the big men, euros, and otherwise freaks like Curry, Kawhi, Embiid, Jokic, AD, Luka, Gobert, Draymond who hit their primes through the late 10’s and into the 20’s.

2019-2021 was absolutely insane on high end talent. And it takes guys dying off to realize it.

This year, Harden, Luka, LeBron, AD, Kyrie, and Kawhi all suck, are injured, or are not playing.

And the NBA still goes on. But in the past 3 years all those guys out some of their best seasons together. From 19-21, not one of those guys were MVP. That is how loaded the NBA is now.

You have more MVP candidates than championship contenders, by far when healthy.

I don’t think Harden will ever be in his prime again, but he was a monster on the level of any lead guard outside Jordan but he was felt as just another guy because of the era.

[Baller789]

These young bloods (mostly PEDron stans with agendas) overexaggerate how much better todays players are.

Yes in some ways they are, in some ways they aren't. These good offensive soft Euros would get abused defensively back in the day for example.

Also the rule changes are like a buff to current players, how they let travels, palming and illegal screens. Heck how the assists are counted are inflated.

[Johnny32]

I'll agree with the shooting and dribbling: yet they give more freedom for handling the rock today and there are more travels than ever before. The passing is not close to as good as it once was. It was much harder to spread the needle when the paint was packed with defenders contesting your shots. Anyone today can get assists cause of the three point mania. Athletics? No guy today is bigger stronger than 1992 Shaq etc.

better athletes you mean? far better athletes today from top to bottom. most teams back then had two bigs on the floor and most weren't david robinsonesque. also still a lot of unathetic white americans in the lg back then. big lumbering centers and pf's and unathletic white americans are almost extinct in today's gm.

[expansionera]

These young bloods (mostly PEDron stans with agendas) overexaggerate how much better todays players are.

Yes in some ways they are, in some ways they aren't. These good offensive soft Euros would get abused defensively back in the day for example.

Also the rule changes are like a buff to current players, how they let travels, palming and illegal screens. Heck how the assists are counted are inflated.

Luka is arguably a better defender than Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, Dan Majerle and Danny Ainge. All played on championship teams.

Giannis is the best defender in the league, Ben Simmons is not far behind him. Not to mention Siakam, Capela, Gobert, Bogdonavich, etc. Honestly defense in the 90s couldn’t have been too tough considering Muggsy Bogues started on multiple playoff teams and was literally 5’3, and Mark Price was an all NBA player at 5’11 140lbs.

[Johnny32]

Luka is arguably a better defender than Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, Dan Majerle and Danny Ainge. All played on championship teams.

Giannis is the best defender in the league, Ben Simmons is not far behind him. Not to mention Siakam, Capela, Gobert, Bogdonavich, etc. Honestly defense in the 90s couldn’t have been too tough considering Muggsy Bogues started on multiple playoff teams and was literally 5’3, and Mark Price was an all NBA player at 5’11 140lbs.

they exaggerate the toughness needed to score back then obviously. 5'10, 160lb michael adams once averaged 27 ppg in the 90s. yet they act like curry would struggle lol.

[FKAri]

Jordan would shit himself if he played anything resembling a Luka or Giannis, he’s only comfortable scoring over guards like Steve Kerr and Jeff Hornacek

I don't think so. He'd pee himself instead. His bladder control has always been suspect.

[getting_old]

fan since the early 70s, i have vowed to swing with it and enjoy the game as it has developed

if i don't like it, I can drop out in a second

the Bird/Magic/Doctor J rivalry peaked during my high school years, meant a lot to us socially as well as fans

maybe that was just being the right age for a team and outcome to matter so much to us, but those were incredible rivalries on so many levels :)

[expansionera]

they exaggerate the toughness needed to score back then obviously. 5'10, 160lb michael adams once averaged 27 ppg in the 90s. yet they act like curry would struggle lol.
Lmao 27ppg on 38%FG and 29%3PT, typical all star of the 90s era but they want to celebrate Jordan for getting 30ppg :roll:

[Baller789]

Luka is arguably a better defender than Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, Dan Majerle and Danny Ainge. All played on championship teams.

Giannis is the best defender in the league, Ben Simmons is not far behind him. Not to mention Siakam, Capela, Gobert, Bogdonavich, etc. Honestly defense in the 90s couldn’t have been too tough considering Muggsy Bogues started on multiple playoff teams and was literally 5’3, and Mark Price was an all NBA player at 5’11 140lbs.

This post has so many fallacies I'm not even gonna bother. :lol

[tontoz]

I think it has to do with the combination of "evolution" as it relates to more people playing which leads to a sport drawing from a deeper talent pool. But don't get it twisted, sports talent can easily evolved over 30 years. Take the UFC for example, fighters are so much more skilled than they were 30 years ago.


The UFC didn't even exist 30 years ago. The UFCs rise has nothing to do with biological evolution, it has to do with a new sport getting exposure and becoming popular.

I hadn't even heard of jujitsu until UFC 1 in 1993.

[Spurs m8]

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Better than a Bron stan bump tbh