2001 Era Kobe Bryant In Today's League

[Soundwave]

Where would you rank him if you transport a 21/22 year old Kobe into the current game. That's a very skilled player with a ton of athleticism with a lot of energy.

I think his scoring would go up as it's easier to score now. He averaged 28 ppg in 2001-02? Make that 31+ ppg today.

[Session]

2001 Kobe Bryant would make 40ppg easy with more than 50% field foals in current league: faster and no defense regular season games :oldlol:

Black Mamba records would include +20 three point games and +100 points games.

Rockets prime Harden in 2001 would be a 20ppg random player.

[RRR3]

2001 Kobe Bryant would make 40ppg easy with more than 50% field foals in current league: faster and no defense regular season games :oldlol:

Black Mamba records would include +20 three point games and +100 points games.

Rockets prime Harden in 2001 would be a 20ppg random player.
:facepalm

[expansionera]

Without David Stern Kobe never reaches double digit scoring

[Kblaze8855]

These questions are getting so hard to answer as the game changes. Guys like this version of Kobe did not play ideal modern ball period. And they shouldn’t be expected to. It was 20 years ago. He played a game that coaches tend to push you away from. Not to say it wasn’t or wouldn’t be effective….I’m saying he likely is asked to adjust it especially considering he did have a shooting touch.

Plenty of stars manage to be effective without great outside shots. Demar. Giannis. Jimmy Butler. But Kobe had touch and I don’t see him settling in as a slasher and pull-up midrange artist which he absolutely was at the time. He shot 27, 32, 31, and 25% from 3 for a 4 year period before he started shooting more. But you ask about that young 01 era Kobe that’s what you get.

This guy:




https://youtu.be/Hr_claFBgrQ


Random game. 31 points. Took two threes and missed both. Pretty standard. He didn’t hit a 3 in 58 games that season. It’s just how he played.


Leaves us with two options….

Consider what he would be playing as he did with modern rules and spacing…or…reinvent his game and make it what we think it would be but never was.

Even when Kobe started shooting threes it wasn’t at modern volume for his minutes until he was washed and he didn’t really string together a lot of good years.

Making him at that point a high volume three point shooter is just fiction and swapping out a huge chunk of his actual game to make it more appealing to what young fans think a scorer should be.

I choose not to do that. Based on who he actually was with just a tad of modern freedom shot selection wise?

Maybe….Dwyane Wade with a splash of KDs midrange? Maybe bump up around 4 threes like KD when he gets it going from 16 feet and just takes a few open ones too.

Its hard to say really. Just making him a bigtime shooter feels dishonest and like it alters his whole approach but it feels like what people want to do because like with Jordan they just can’t say “Not a good outside shooter by today’s standards” as if that means he wouldn’t score 35 a fame comfortably if he wanted.


Calling him super Demar with defense feels like an insult but Wade with KDs midrange game pretty much makes him peak MJ which also isn’t the case. I don’t know.

Dropped in playing the same style he’d be near unstoppable with the spacing and rules…all these stretch bigs out of the paint…high pace. He might shoot 55% if he didn’t fall in love with the three. It’s just hard to envision it without making him something he wasn’t at the time. Or ever really. He had 3-4 seasons someone today would call good from 3. And I don’t see him doing it harden style where he takes so many it becomes synonymous with his style even when he doesn’t shoot that well.


Is saying current polish Demar with his Raptors athletic ability back and elite defense an insult? If so….is Wade plus something just shy of KDs midrange game too good?

Hard guy to compare to. None of the people who play like Kobe did feel good enough for a non insulting comparison. Lavine runs wild on the pull-ups now and then but people would take that as an insult too.

Hard to compare anyone honestly but with his general aggression and these lanes?

If he didn’t do 32+ a game it would be because some coach stopped him.

[HunterSThompson]

with the new rules? he would dominate. he would be one of the only guys in the nba that can handle major contact while driving to the basket

2001 kobe was with full body/hand checking btw

[Johnny32]

top 5. kd, curry, giannis all clearly better. tbd on lebron. i can't tell if he's old or if it's his abdominal injury.

[tpols]

Kobe was jamming on the Twin Towers David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the playoffs in 2001.With no spacing and shaq drawing the whole defense to the paint. He would have a field day with today's format. People forget but Kobe might be the most creative and best in game dunker of all time. Right up there with young Vince carter.


https://youtu.be/guMmZrnFx70

Derozan has nice midrange arsenal but athletically he's a total bum compared to young Kobe.

[HunterSThompson]

top 5. kd, curry, giannis all clearly better. tbd on lebron. i can't tell if he's old or if it's his abdominal injury.

the fact that you put lebron in that conversation voids your existence on this forum

[Johnny32]

the fact that you put lebron in that conversation voids your existence on this forum

the last time we saw lebron healthy was 2020 when he averaged 30, 12, 9 on 59% in the finals. as i stated...i can't tell if he's old now or if his core injury is affecting his game. time will tell.

[HunterSThompson]

the last time we saw lebron healthy was 2020 when he averaged 30, 12, 9 on 59% in the finals. as i stated...i can't tell if he's old now or if his core injury is affecting his game. time will tell.

2020 lebron showed up for one series to hijack finals mvp. Anthony davis carried them all year and through the first 3 rounds

lebrons been finished since 2019

without that 5 month break lebrons body breaks down again in 2020. especially with travel

[tpols]

Bro I just watched that whole video and Kobe has brutally posterized:

Ben Wallace
Tim Duncan (bunch of times)
Dwight
Sabonis
David Robinson
Kevin Garnett
Tmac
Vlade Divac
Yao Ming
Emeka Okafor
Alonzo Mourning
Josh Smith
Gerald Wallace
Chris Paul
Steve Nash

And that's from just one video of like 5% of the dunks he ever did. The man had everybody on a hit list.

[Johnny32]

2020 lebron showed up for one series to hijack finals mvp. Anthony davis carried them all year and through the first 3 rounds

lebrons been finished since 2019

without that 5 month break lebrons body breaks down again in 2020. especially with travel

"finished" lebron had a better finals than any of kobe's. how does that make you feel?

[ShawkFactory]

Bro I just watched that whole video and Kobe has brutally posterized:

Ben Wallace
Tim Duncan (bunch of times)
Dwight
Sabonis
David Robinson
Kevin Garnett
Tmac
Vlade Divac
Yao Ming
Emeka Okafor
Alonzo Mourning
Josh Smith
Gerald Wallace
Chris Paul
Steve Nash

And that's from just one video of like 5% of the dunks he ever did. The man had everybody on a hit list.

Pretty much any good to great dunker in that era has dunked on pretty much everybody worth dunking on at some point, in one way or the other. People just challenged bigs more underneath and Kobe was notoriously fearless even out of that group.

[Johnny32]

1st rd vs por - 28, 10, 10 on 60%
2nd rd vs hou - 26, 10, 7 on 51%
wcf vs den - 27, 10, 9 on 54%

"showed up for one series"

[Wally450]

2001 Kobe Bryant would make 40ppg easy with more than 50% field foals in current league: faster and no defense regular season games :oldlol:

Black Mamba records would include +20 three point games and +100 points games.

Rockets prime Harden in 2001 would be a 20ppg random player.

It doesn't work like that.

[tpols]

Pretty much any good to great dunker in that era has dunked on pretty much everybody worth dunking on at some point, in one way or the other. People just challenged bigs more underneath and Kobe was notoriously fearless even out of that group.

I think that's the point though... this era is soft and uncreative. Kobe kept doing those up and under dunks, behind the back, windmills, reverses, 360s, left hand posters, and more. I think the more packed paints made him have to constantly adjust to find the angle for the slam. Where as today everybody just does simple one and two handed jams. They don't have to be creative anymore and its just boring.

[ShawkFactory]

I think that's the point though... this era is soft and uncreative. Kobe kept doing those up and under dunks, behind the back, windmills, reverses, 360s, left hand posters, and more. I think the more packed paints made him have to constantly adjust to find the angle for the slam. Where as today everybody just does simple one and two handed jams. They don't have to be creative anymore and its just boring.

I don’t disagree.

As an aside, I actually commend Duncan for being posterized so much. It truly seemed like he could care less about that. Where 99% of dudes would just say fvck it, he steps in just in case. Like if there’s a 10% chance his contesting will lead to no basket and a 90% chance he gets dunked on because he’s late or out of position..he’ll still take the chance. Because 1 out of 10 times it won’t lead to two points. And rarely it’s because of his own mistake, which is another factor that I think teammates noticed.

It’s little things like that that separates him from other guys. The true definition of something not showing up in the stat-sheet but having an impact. The little things that he did everywhere add up.

[Baller789]

I don’t disagree.

As an aside, I actually commend Duncan for being posterized so much. It truly seemed like he could care less about that. Where 99% of dudes would just say fvck it, he steps in just in case. Like if there’s a 10% chance his contesting will lead to no basket and a 90% chance he gets dunked on because he’s late or out of position..he’ll still take the chance. Because 1 out of 10 times it won’t lead to two points. And rarely it’s because of his own mistake, which is another factor that I think teammates noticed.

It’s little things like that that separates him from other guys. The true definition of something not showing up in the stat-sheet but having an impact. The little things that he did everywhere add up.

I hate $h!t like that, staying out of the way. When I was playing, I would contest everything, poster or not.

I respect players who keep getting dunked on knowing they never gave up on the play.

[ShawkFactory]

I hate $h!t like that, staying out of the way. When I was playing, I would contest everything, poster or not.

I respect players who keep getting dunked on knowing they never gave up on the play.

Another factor is that when Kobe destroys his man off the dribble and Duncan has to step over late and get dunked on, now the highlight is about Kobe and Duncan and the attention is off of Antonio Daniels or whoever. Which helps him.

It’s like the manager stepping in and taking the fall when one of his people fvcks up.

[tpols]

I don’t disagree.

As an aside, I actually commend Duncan for being posterized so much. It truly seemed like he could care less about that. Where 99% of dudes would just say fvck it, he steps in just in case. Like if there’s a 10% chance his contesting will lead to no basket and a 90% chance he gets dunked on because he’s late or out of position..he’ll still take the chance. Because 1 out of 10 times it won’t lead to two points. And rarely it’s because of his own mistake, which is another factor that I think teammates noticed.

It’s little things like that that separates him from other guys. The true definition of something not showing up in the stat-sheet but having an impact. The little things that he did everywhere add up.

Yea Duncan is one of the realest ballers of all time. He just played purely logical, and didn't care about optics or emotions. Kobe was the opposite. He got fired up.

[Baller789]

Yea Duncan is one of the realest ballers of all time. He just played purely logical, and didn't care about optics or emotions. Kobe was the opposite. He got fired up.

Well Duncan is a robot after all.
The TD model 21

[HunterSThompson]

"finished" lebron had a better finals than any of kobe's. how does that make you feel?

in the bubble vs a 5th seed during the freedom of movement era where everyone shot way better in the finals

big deal bud lol

that's why the league revamped its rule system


Kobes finals opponents:

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's


https://i.redd.it/fkxo4aq7glc61.gif


Lebrons finals opponents:

Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%


https://media1.tenor.com/images/6f4ce6161f043dc29b844f8e630018ff/tenor.gif?itemid=16383014

[999Guy]

Well, let’s just start with the reality that he does almost literally nothing better than Jokic on a basketball court. To say nothing of Kawhi, Curry, Giannis, Embiid, etc which he does some things better than them, but clearly worse at others.

He’d be fine. He’d be where Durant is right now. Clearly great, clearly not the best kind of player.

Kobe never did, and never would compete with dominant bigs, or wings who were freaks with rare skill or athleticism(Nash, LeBron) on game impact. And he wouldn’t now. Though this is shaping up to be very weak year on superstar player due to injuries.

I really really want to hold the line on him ever being better than Prime Wade or Paul while they were all in primes. But I’ll leave it there.

[eliteballer]

Well, let’s just start with the reality that he does almost literally nothing better than Jokic on a basketball court. To say nothing of Kawhi, Curry, Giannis, Embiid, etc which he does some things better than them, but clearly worse at others.

He’d be fine. He’d be where Durant is right now. Clearly great, clearly not the best kind of player.

Kobe never did, and never would compete with dominant bigs, or wings who were freaks with rare skill or athleticism(Nash, LeBron) on game impact. And he wouldn’t now. Though this is shaping up to be very weak year on superstar player due to injuries.

I really really want to hold the line on him ever being better than Prime Wade or Paul while they were all in primes. But I’ll leave it there.

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Well, let’s just start with the reality that he does almost literally nothing better than Jokic on a basketball court. To say nothing of Kawhi, Curry, Giannis, Embiid, etc which he does some things better than them, but clearly worse at others.

He’d be fine. He’d be where Durant is right now. Clearly great, clearly not the best kind of player.

Kobe never did, and never would compete with dominant bigs, or wings who were freaks with rare skill or athleticism(Nash, LeBron) on game impact. And he wouldn’t now. Though this is shaping up to be very weak year on superstar player due to injuries.

I really really want to hold the line on him ever being better than Prime Wade or Paul while they were all in primes. But I’ll leave it there.
:kobe:

[HunterSThompson]

Well, let’s just start with the reality that he does almost literally nothing better than Jokic on a basketball court. To say nothing of Kawhi, Curry, Giannis, Embiid, etc which he does some things better than them, but clearly worse at others.

He’d be fine. He’d be where Durant is right now. Clearly great, clearly not the best kind of player.

Kobe never did, and never would compete with dominant bigs, or wings who were freaks with rare skill or athleticism(Nash, LeBron) on game impact. And he wouldn’t now. Though this is shaping up to be very weak year on superstar player due to injuries.

I really really want to hold the line on him ever being better than Prime Wade or Paul while they were all in primes. But I’ll leave it there.

its weird how 2 way slashers/mid range assassins with athleticism, length always end up winning titles at the end of the year while your 3 point specialists/ball dominant all around playmaker shorter or fatter or slower new age superstars always end up flaming out or needing to be carried to rings

guys like jokic, harden, curry, luka, trae simply can't get it done at the end of the day and the people holding the finals mvp at the end of the day are guys like kobe, dirk, Durant, kawhi, iguodala, giannis etc..

the only time it's a do it all playmaker is when it's lebron and his rings are mostly all bogus due to ring chasing and needing another mid range clutch player to make up for his deficiencies

[Hey Yo]

in the bubble vs a 5th seed during the freedom of movement era where everyone shot way better in the finals

big deal bud lol

that's why the league revamped its rule system


Kobes finals opponents:
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's


https://i.redd.it/fkxo4aq7glc61.gif


Lebrons finals opponents:

Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%


https://media1.tenor.com/images/6f4ce6161f043dc29b844f8e630018ff/tenor.gif?itemid=16383014
Fixed for accurate context.

[Johnny32]

guys like jokic, harden, curry, luka, trae simply can't get it done at the end of the day and the people holding the finals mvp at the end of the day are guys like kobe, dirk, Durant, kawhi, iguodala, giannis etc..

it's weird how legoat has more fmvp's than everyone you listed.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

It's difficult to evaluate 3peat kobe and how much he was benefiting from Shaq. He wasn't anything special in 2000 or 2002 but was really good in 2001. Rich mans jimmy butler is his best bet I would say

[HunterSThompson]

Fixed for accurate context.

so these weren't also kobes finals opponents?

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's

[HunterSThompson]

it's weird how legoat has more fmvp's than everyone you listed.

its not weird. he colluded and got bailed out by ray/kyrie/silver and played in fake shortened seasons multiple times

[HunterSThompson]

It's difficult to evaluate 3peat kobe and how much he was benefiting from Shaq. He wasn't anything special in 2000 or 2002 but was really good in 2001. Rich mans jimmy butler is his best bet I would say

well all you have to do is watch basketball post 2004 and you'l be able to evaluate kobe quite easily without shaq


and i find it funny that you think jimmy butler could also outperform peak shaq in the 2001 playoffs

[brownmamba00]

He'd the best perimeter defender in the game by far and he'd be feasting on the weak frontcourts these days.

Are you kidding? He'd be dunking all over Jokic KAT Embiid etc. Weak ass jumpshooting bigs.

[Bronbron23]

Where would you rank him if you transport a 21/22 year old Kobe into the current game. That's a very skilled player with a ton of athleticism with a lot of energy.

I think his scoring would go up as it's easier to score now. He averaged 28 ppg in 2001-02? Make that 31+ ppg today.

Well past prime DeRozan is one of the best scorers in the game atm so......

[SouBeachTalents]

so these weren't also kobes finals opponents?

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
Where’s Jalen Rose, Kittles, FMVP Billups? And why aren’t Allen & Rodo listed for both Finals? That’s some 3ball level dishonesty

[RRR3]

Where’s Jalen Rose, Kittles, FMVP Billups? And why aren’t Allen & Rodo listed for both Finals? That’s some 3ball level dishonesty
Kenny is worse than 3ball because he’s a psychopath. 3ball is just insane but he’s not a bad guy or anything. Kenny is legit evil.

[999Guy]

:kobe:

Let’s name them.

I’m not even asking to seriously craft an argument just name what Kobe does better than Jokic.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

so these weren't also kobes finals opponents?

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's

Not mckie and Eric snow. Wow how did he possibly manage to defend those guys

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

well all you have to do is watch basketball post 2004 and you'l be able to evaluate kobe quite easily without shaq


and i find it funny that you think jimmy butler could also outperform peak shaq in the 2001 playoffs

Shaq was better in 2001. But jimmy butler outplayed giannis in 2020, so its possible.

Seems like kobes prime started in 2003. He was very replaceable on those 2000 and 2002 teams.

[SouBeachTalents]

Let’s name them.

I’m not even asking to seriously craft an argument just name what Kobe does better than Jokic.
Do you seriously not believe Kobe is a better scorer than Jokic?

[999Guy]

Do you seriously not believe Kobe is a better scorer than Jokic?

Go skill for skill. And let’s find out.

What scoring skill does he have over Jokic?

And whose game do you think the other could play, easier?


Could you ever imagine Kobe pretty much having Kyle Korver efficiency while passing like late prime LeBron or Chris Paul, on high volume?

I could definitely see Jokic forcing his way to 35/5 on offense. And doing it more efficiently. But your stalling has me rambling.


What skills do Kobe actually have over Jokic? Any category.

[Hey Yo]

so these weren't also kobes finals opponents?

reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's

Not as first option.

That didnt happen till 2008 shortly after demanding a trade

[ShawkFactory]

He'd the best perimeter defender in the game by far and he'd be feasting on the weak frontcourts these days.

Are you kidding? He'd be dunking all over Jokic KAT Embiid etc. Weak ass jumpshooting bigs.

Embiid is a very strong rim protector.

Jokic is weak when he has to go out to the perimeter or rotate quickly but when he has position he’s very good as well.

[HunterSThompson]

Not mckie and Eric snow. Wow how did he possibly manage to defend those guys

the point is everyone shot worse. thats how the finals used to be. people actually used to play defense

[HunterSThompson]

Not as first option.

That didnt happen till 2008 shortly after demanding a trade

actually kobe was in fact the FGA's leader since 2001

but i don't see how that plays a factor in my point about the finals being more defensive battles