Comparing Pippen's 6 Finals performances to peak Horry performance (95' Finals)

[3ba11]

.
95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS

[GrayGoat]

Now compare the defense

[ShawkFactory]

Horrys job in that series (MASSIVE 4 game sample) was about as easy as it gets offensively. Orlando spent so much energy with Hakeem and then Glide that he basically just had to make some open jumpers. Not all that unlike Derek Fisher in the 01 playoffs.

It’s also why 8ppg guys like Kenny Smith were able to explode for 23 in games.

[SouBeachTalents]

Horrys job in that series (MASSIVE 4 game sample) was about as easy as it gets offensively. Orlando spent so much energy with Hakeem and then Glide that he basically just had to make some open jumpers. Not all that unlike Derek Fisher in the 01 playoffs.

It’s also why 8ppg guys like Kenny Smith were able to explode for 30+ in games.
FOH with your context. OP proves without a shadow of a doubt that because of gamescore from a 4 game sample size, Horry was a better player than Pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

FOH with your context. OP proves without a shadow of a doubt that because of gamescore from a 4 game sample size, Horry was a better player than Pippen.

Just confirmed: 55% of Horrys shot attempts were 3s

[3ba11]

Now compare the defense


The OP shows that Horry averaged 3.0 steals and 2.4 blocks

[3ba11]

Horrys job in that series (MASSIVE 4 game sample) was about as easy as it gets offensively. Orlando spent so much energy with Hakeem and then Glide that he basically just had to make some open jumpers. Not all that unlike Derek Fisher in the 01 playoffs.

It’s also why 8ppg guys like Kenny Smith were able to explode for 23 in games.


Jordan attracted the most defensive attention in history, which is another reason the Pippen/Horry comparison is so apt here... Pippen's best Finals performances were a little below 95' Horry, while his worst Finals are far below 95' Horry

Perhaps you're forgetting that everyone in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they weren't facing max defensive attention during those runs - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run

[3ba11]

Just confirmed: 55% of Horrys shot attempts were 3s


It shouldn't be a surprise that the 7-time champion was ahead of his time

Btw, JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 57% and had a 14.2 gamescore in the 15' ECF, which would be above Pippen's 98' and 96' Finals... So the point is that this caliber of stats is all Pippen-caliber (weak)

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan attracted the most defensive attention in history, which is another reason the Pippen/Horry comparison is so apt here... Pippen's best Finals performances were a little below 95' Horry, while his worst Finals are far below 95' Horry

Perhaps you're forgetting that everyone in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they weren't facing max defensive attention during those runs - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run
Did you just not read the rest of the post? Or just gonna ignore the Glide part :lol

But debatable on your point that Jordan attracted the most defensive attention in history. In this series in question Hakeem was doubled almost every time he touched the ball. Despite Shaq being there.

[RRR3]

LeBron James.

[HoopsNY]

Now look at Horry's career playoff numbers and compare them to Pippen's 1991-98. :lol

[ShawkFactory]

It shouldn't be a surprise that the 7-time champion was ahead of his time

Btw, JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 57% and had a 14.2 gamescore in the 15' ECF, which would be above Pippen's 98' and 96' Finals... So the point is that this caliber of stats is all Pippen-caliber (weak)

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

[3ba11]

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.


The fact that Horry played better in the 95' Finals than any of Pippen's Finals (while the Rockets had Drexler too) is why I think the 95' Rockets would've beaten MJ and stopped the 5-peat (assuming MJ didn't retire in 94')

[SATAN]

LeBron James.

[ShawkFactory]

The fact that Horry played better in the 95' Finals than any of Pippen's Finals (while the Rockets had Drexler too) is why I think the 95' Rockets would've beaten MJ and stopped the 5-peat (assuming MJ didn't retire in 94')

I remember a year or so ago you were making arguments about Glide in this series vs Pippen.

And now this. So again...you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[3ba11]

LeBron James.


^^^ had inflated stats in the 11', 12', 13', 16', 17' and 20' Playoffs and/or Finals by virtue of having an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, thereby not facing maximum defensive attention.. Any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

[ShawkFactory]

Funny you don't mention 2014, but I will for ya

Highest finals gamescores:

Lebron 2014- 22.5
Kobe 2002- 20.3
Kobe 2010- 18.7
Kobe 2001- 17.2
Kobe 2008- 16.4
Kobe 2004- 11.6
Kobe 2000- 9.7

Oh no..

[Johnny32]

stupid comparison considering the bulls never played hou in the finals. we already compared pippen's production vs the bulls opp's second option in every finals and he was better in every series besides 96. you ignore this because it destroys your little agenda. the truth is 90s basketball was bad offense that old heads like to pretend was amazing defense despite the fact the rules handicapped what schemes defenses could even run. you and your kind are embarrassingly delusional.

[3ba11]

stupid comparison considering the bulls never played hou in the finals. we already compared pippen's production vs the bulls opp's second option in every finals and he was better in every series besides 96. you ignore this because it destroys your little agenda. the truth is 90s basketball was bad offense that old heads like to pretend was amazing defense despite the fact the rules handicapped what schemes defenses could even run. you and your kind are embarrassingly delusional.


Pippen peaked at 15-21 ppg (top 1000 peak), so even when he outscored guys, he was basically tying them with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg).

So don't get mad that Horry's 95' Finals was better than any of Pippen's Finals because IT'S A LOW BAR - Pippen averaged 19.0 in 6 Finals... Aside from MJ's 6 rings, no one won more than 2 Finals without a FMVP sidekick or elite-producing sidekick (25+ ppg).

[Johnny32]

Pippen peaked at 16-22 ppg (top 1000 peak), so even when he outscored guys, he was basically tying them with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg).

So don't get mad that Horry's 95' Finals was better than any of Pippen's Finals because IT'S A LOW BAR - Pippen averaged 19.0 in 6 Finals... Aside from MJ's 6 rings, no one won more than 2 Finals without a FMVP sidekick or elite-producing sidekick (25+ ppg).

one more time. the comparison is pointless. the bulls didn't face horry/hou in the finals.

[3ba11]

one more time. the comparison is pointless. the bulls didn't face horry/hou in the finals.


The comparison shows that Pippen's peak capability was pretty low - Jordan won 6 Finals with a guy that produced less than 95' Horry's Finals each time

[Johnny32]

The comparison shows that Pippen's peak capability was pretty low - Jordan won 6 Finals with a guy that produced less than 95' Horry's Finals each time

yet it was better than the bulls opp's second option produced in every finals but 96. that's all that matters.

[Hey Yo]

Funny you don't mention 2014, but I will for ya

Highest finals gamescores:

Lebron 2014- 22.5
Kobe 2002- 20.3
Kobe 2010- 18.7
Kobe 2001- 17.2
Kobe 2008- 16.4
Kobe 2004- 11.6
Kobe 2000- 9.7

Oh no..

2014 where Lebron's game score more than doubled Wade's 7.9 and Bosh's 10.6 combined

Superteam though...

[SouBeachTalents]

Funny you don't mention 2014, but I will for ya

Highest finals gamescores:

Lebron 2014- 22.5
Kobe 2002- 20.3
Kobe 2010- 18.7
Kobe 2001- 17.2
Kobe 2008- 16.4
Kobe 2004- 11.6
Kobe 2000- 9.7

Oh no..
OP had no response for this I see :lol

[ShawkFactory]

2014 where Lebron's game score more than doubled Wade's 7.9 and Bosh's 10.6.

Superteam though...

It’s not even about super teams. He just again outed himself again a contextless loser.

Completely invalidated his own thread

[3ba11]

yet it was better than the bulls opp's second option produced in every finals but 96.


No, it wasn't better - Majerle had higher gamescore in the 93' Finals because Pippen shot 45% true shooting.. Pippen had the lowest advanced stats for any winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, TS).

And Pippen's peak was 15-21 ppg, so he was tying guys with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), and therefore getting outplayed in nearly every series of his career.

He infact was only a 2nd option alongside MJ, otherwise he wasn't one - he was outscored by opposing 2nd options in 7 of 7 series without MJ..

[Johnny32]

No, it wasn't better - Majerle had higher gamescore in the 93' Finals because Pippen shot 45% true shooting.. Pippen had the lowest advanced stats for any winning sidekick in the 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, TS).

And Pippen's peak was 15-21 ppg, so he was tying guys with worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), and therefore getting outplayed in nearly every series of his career.

He infact was only a 2nd option alongside MJ, otherwise he wasn't one - he was outscored by opposing 2nd options in 7 of 7 series without MJ..

1993 finals ORtg (an estimate of points produced (players) or scored (teams) per 100 possessions)

paxson - 159
bj - 132
majerle - 128
barkley - 122
grant - 122
ainge - 120
dumas - 120
jordone - 119

have fun with those advanced nerd stats.

[Axe]

Kobe averaged lesser ppg in the 2000 finals than pippen did in 1991

[Phoenix]

91 Finals:
Pippen 17.5
Divac 16.1

92 finals:
Pippen 18.1
Porter 12.5
*bonus info* Drexler 18.4

93 Finals:
Pippen 15.6
Majerle 17.0

96 Finals
Pippen 13.4
Payton 14.4

97 Finals
Pippen 15.1
Stockton 14.9

98 Finals:
Pippen 13.0
Stockton 10.0

Cliffnotes:

Pippen had a higher GmSc than the opposing teams second best player/option in 4 of 6 finals

Pippen in 1992 was .3 off Clyde Drexler, the league MVP runner-up.

https://c.tenor.com/AS_dDaPY5_wAAAAC/miles-ace.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

91 Finals:
Pippen 17.5
Divac 16.1

92 finals:
Pippen 18.1
Porter 12.5
*bonus info* Drexler 18.4

93 Finals:
Pippen 15.6
Majerle 17.0

96 Finals
Pippen 13.4
Payton 14.4

97 Finals
Pippen 15.1
Stockton 14.9

98 Finals:
Pippen 13.0
Stockton 10.0

Cliffnotes:

Pippen had a higher GmSc than the opposing teams second best player/option in 4 of 6 finals

Pippen in 1992 was .3 off Clyde Drexler, the league MVP runner-up.

https://c.tenor.com/AS_dDaPY5_wAAAAC/miles-ace.gif
This is what you get when you cherrypick like a clown. Thread backfire :lol

[Johnny32]

1992 nba finals gm 6.

In Game 6 of the 1992 NBA Finals, it was Scottie Pippen and not Michael Jordan who brought the Bulls back from a 15-point deficit entering the fourth quarter.

Pippen led a second unit lineup to start the quarter with Michael Jordan on the bench. I would've sworn this was a concession by coach Phil Jackson that the game had already been lost.

Instead, there was Scottie drawing triple teams, moving the ball for a hockey assist on a Bobby Hansen corner 3, and bullying his way on the block for a bucket. On the defensive side, Scottie was forcing multiple turnovers, including a Drexler double dribble that not only prompted a Blazers timeout, but basically represented the tipping point in completely shifting the momentum to the Bulls.

In a span of 3:30, Scottie led a 14-2 run to bring the Bulls within three points. Jordan eventually reentered the fray, but it was Pippen who continued the onslaught by weaving through Blazer defenders for a coast-to-coast layup. With Portland still clinging onto the lead, it was Pippen who finally tied the game with a desperation three as the shot clock wound down.

MJ closed the deal but it was his sidekick who got em there with him on the bench. Horry's turn.

[ShawkFactory]

OP had no response for this I see :lol

Obviously not..

[3ba11]

1992 nba finals gm 6.

In Game 6 of the 1992 NBA Finals, it was Scottie Pippen and not Michael Jordan who brought the Bulls back from a 15-point deficit entering the fourth quarter.

Pippen led a second unit lineup to start the quarter with Michael Jordan on the bench. I would've sworn this was a concession by coach Phil Jackson that the game had already been lost.

Instead, there was Scottie drawing triple teams, moving the ball for a hockey assist on a Bobby Hansen corner 3, and bullying his way on the block for a bucket. On the defensive side, Scottie was forcing multiple turnovers, including a Drexler double dribble that not only prompted a Blazers timeout, but basically represented the tipping point in completely shifting the momentum to the Bulls.

In a span of 3:30, Scottie led a 14-2 run to bring the Bulls within three points. Jordan eventually reentered the fray, but it was Pippen who continued the onslaught by weaving through Blazer defenders for a coast-to-coast layup. With Portland still clinging onto the lead, it was Pippen who finally tied the game with a desperation three as the shot clock wound down.

MJ closed the deal but it was his sidekick who got em there with him on the bench. Horry's turn.


wtf are you talking about - Jordan hit every big shot down the stretch in Game 6 - literally - shot after shot after shot after shot after shot - you guys have to lie and exaggerate for Pippen, which proves how bad he was... Jordan entered the game midway through the 4th and completely took over - that was prime MJ - he always took over

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

* Only Pippen failed to reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size (0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from 95' Finals)

* Pippen was drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the same playoff opponent 6/6 times (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493657-Reggie-Miller-and-Pippen-faced-the-same-opponent-in-the-playoffs-6-times)

* Pippen has the lowest peak capability of any notable sidekick and this includes scoring, passing, efficiency, wins (22/5 and 55 wins with worst-ever westbrick efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg))

* Aside from Pippen, every notable sidekick in history was an equal-scoring partner (1b) in various series or playoff runs - so only Pippen was carried for his entire career by never getting within 10 ppg of MJ in any series except 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498685-Lebron-can-t-carry-scoring-load-to-win-a-Finals-can-t-be-offensive-anchor-in-Finals&p=14521527&viewfull=1#post14521527).

* The Bulls are the only team in history that won more than 2 Finals without a sidekick getting FMVP or 25 ppg - so Jordan won 3 times as many Finals with a low-producing sidekick as anyone else..

[TheCorporation]

Funny you don't mention 2014, but I will for ya

Highest finals gamescores:

Lebron 2014- 22.5
Kobe 2002- 20.3
Kobe 2010- 18.7
Kobe 2001- 17.2
Kobe 2008- 16.4
Kobe 2004- 11.6
Kobe 2000- 9.7

Oh no..

OP? You done?

[La Frescobaldi]

Robert Horry player profile
Tall, long, smooth and very very fast, can cover ground baseline to baseline or paint to corner at elite levels. Powerful upper body, can bang with James Edwards or Charles Oakley enforcer types for up to a half of a game (close to or at the level of a Scottie Pippen in terms of staying power), which is elite. Very smart with fouls.

Capable of amazing defense: 90 on the Rodman Man Defense Scale
Russell-Chamberlain Warp the Court Scale: 75-80
Holds several records for steals. Able to disrupt plays and occasionally entire offenses with his defense. Transition D very high.

Great to elite spot shooter, can slash and jam, passing skills very good to high.
Magic-Bird Passing Scale: 70-75
Free throw shooting great to elite.
All round player: 75-80 on the Pippen Versatility Scale.

Weaknesses: in early years easily stripped, prone to exposing ball back out into play while in the paint instead of protecting it. Cannot create off the dribble. Frequently lackadaisical in regular season, yet changing overnight to very high to elite performance in playoffs.

Ranks with Sam Jones, Michael Jordan, LeBron James in ability to finish games - the most elite group in history.
Robert Horry Clutch Level: 100
Stone cold chilly.
Absolutely should be in the Hall of Fame

[La Frescobaldi]

Scottie Pippen Player Profile

Tall, long, smooth and very very fast, can cover ground baseline to baseline or paint to corner at elite levels. Strong upper body, can bang with James Edwards or Charles Oakley enforcer types for games and series, which is elite. Very smart with fouls.

Capable of elite levels of defense.
95-100 on the Rodman Man Defense Scale
Able to guard 1-5 anywhere on the court. Capable of bursts of shutdown defense against any player in history.
Able to so completely disrupt entire teams with his defense that at times he approaches the highest levels ever seen. Half court offenses are completely distorted by the fact that Pippen is on defense.
Russell & Chamberlain Warp the Court Level: 95-98

Pippen’s Transition Defense is matched only by John Havlicek, Michael Jordan, Kawhi Leonard in history.

Offensive threat at all times from any and all points on the court. Passing skills at the level of Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James.
Magic-Bird Passing Scale: 100
A fine shooter to 18’, devastating offensive creativity in transition or half court set, runs offenses at elite levels, lifts teammates, elite ball handling, extremely dangerous scorer off the dribble. Free Throw Shooting acceptable to good.
All Round Player: 100 on the Pippen Versatility Scale.

Weaknesses: not especially clutch, struggles mentally at times.
Robert Horry Clutch Level: 70-75

Absolutely elite player as recognized numerous times by the NBA and the entire hoops world. Selected Top Fifty

Scottie Pippen ran the offense which destroyed the Bad Boy Pistons so utterly and completely that Detroit QUIT IN THE PLAYOFFS AND WALKED OFF THEIR OWN COURT.

[3ba11]

.
Oh shit... Horry agrees.. :lebronamazed:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s


Not a surprise though.. No one paid attention to Pippen or tracked his performance because they knew his peak capability fell far short of dominance (15-22 ppg and 5 apg).. So he got away with a lot of dud performances

[3ba11]

Just a quick reminder that the goat won 6 chips with a sidekick that wasn't capable of peak-Horry-level by failing to reach peak-Horry-level in 6 Finals (0/6)

[Round Mound]

Horry a better player than Pippen? :facepalm

[3ba11]

Horry a better player than Pippen? :facepalm


Pippen was literally Jeff Green outside the dynasty chemistry and system that he grew up in (raised by MJ)

The 2000 Blazers wouldn't have choked in the 4th quarter with Horry..

In 6 Finals, Pippen showed that he isn't capable of peak-Horry-level

6 of 6 times he fell off short - that's 100%

Ultimately, Horry hit 100 big shots to win 7 chips, while Pippen hit 0 to win 6

[SATAN]

Pippen was literally Jeff Green

Ban?

[3ba11]

Ban?


Outside of the dynasty system that he grew up in, Pippen was worse that Jeff Green:


1999: 14 ppg

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif



So unlike Lebron being GIFTED ready-made stars and threats, Jordan had to CREATE threats and elevate bums:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-10-2022/h2nwGf.gif