Which players have defeated max defensive attention?

[3ba11]

.
Players that won rings while averaging 10+ more than sidekick for Playoffs and Finals (since 1980, aka 3-pointer basketball)


84' Bird
91' Jordan
92' Jordan
93' Jordan
96' Jordan
97' Jordan
98' Jordan
00' Shaq
03' Duncan
06' Wade
09' Kobe
10' Kobe
15' Curry
19' Kawhi
21' Giannis


Did I miss anyone?

[Johnny32]

certainly not any player from the pre 2000s when the rules forced simplistic man/help defense.

[SATAN]

certainly not any player from the pre 2000s when the rules forced simplistic man/help defense.

/Thread

[3ba11]

certainly not any player from the pre 2000s when the rules forced simplistic man/help defense.


Today's defenders have to hug their man in the paint - they must stay within "armslength", per the 3 seconds rule.

So if a defender's man isn't in the paint, the defender can't be in the paint either because he'll be out of armslength..

This rule is called the "defensive 3 seconds rule" and it was implemented in 2005 to keep the paint clear - this change along with the change to 3-point offenses has kept the paint wide open on every play in today's game...

So MJ would average 50 with the open paint and hands-off defense (beginner format).

Furthermore, previous era defenders were allowed to sag off 3-point shooters to the edge of the paint just like today's game - see Jordan's last shot in Game 6 as a simple example - that's exactly how today's game would play it.. The Illegal Defense Rules allowed sagging off defenders - defenders only have to hug their man with today's defensive 3 seconds "armslength" rule

[SouBeachTalents]

2021 Bucks
Giannis: 30.2
Middleton: 23.6

Couldn't even get the one that just occurred a months ago right :lol That could jeopardize Giannis' top 10 spot on OP's list

[GrayGoat]

2021 Bucks
Giannis: 30.2
Middleton: 23.6

Couldn't even get the one that just occurred a months ago right :lol That could jeopardize Giannis' top 10 spot on OP's list

I’m surprised op didn’t know that. Giannis went from top 200 player to top 10 in one series

[1987_Lakers]

2021 Bucks
Giannis: 30.2
Middleton: 23.6

Couldn't even get the one that just occurred a months ago right :lol That could jeopardize Giannis' top 10 spot on OP's list

OP caught lying again, of course he will blame it on faulty memory like he always does, easy to forget stuff that happened recently.

[3ba11]

2021 Bucks
Giannis: 30.2
Middleton: 23.6

Couldn't even get the one that just occurred a months ago right :lol That could jeopardize Giannis' top 10 spot on OP's list


Having the ability to defeat max defensive attention is only 1 goat requirement - there's other requirements, and Giannis fulfills the main one of learning how to win, aka organic (not learning how to team-hop/collude like Magic/Lebron)..

Learning how to win requires adjusting one's game to teammates so both parties can achieve their maximum stats (or close to it).

Accordingly, Giannis learned how to play on the post and screen-set more often while shooting jumpshots at the right frequency and understanding that he must be a defensive anchor in the clutch.. This knowledge is transferrable to any team to win organically - Giannis won with Middleton and made Jrue a winner so he can certainly win with any of Lebron's casts.

[SouBeachTalents]

Having the ability to defeat max defensive attention is only 1 goat requirement - there's other requirements, and Giannis fulfills the main one of learning how to win, aka organic (not learning how to team-hop/collude like Magic/Lebron)..

Learning how to win requires adjusting one's game to teammates so both parties can achieve their maximum stats (or close to it).. So Giannis learned how to play on the post and screen-set more often while shooting jumpshots at the right frequency and understanding that he must be a defensive anchor in the clutch.. This knowledge is transferrable to any team to win organically - Giannis won with Middleton and made Jrue a winner so he can certainly win with any of Lebron's casts.
Thread question: Players that won rings while averaging 10+ more than sidekick for Playoffs and Finals

Giannis: 30.2
Middleton: 23.6

Everything else you said is irrelevant bullshit

[GrayGoat]

Giannis is a better two-way player than MJ ever was

[ELITEpower23]

Wasnt double teams and zone defense illegal until 2004? :roll::oldlol:

NEXT

:dancin

[Ne 1]

Players that won rings against 73 win teams:

2016 LeBron
Players that win rings against a unanimous MVP: 2016 LeBron
Did I miss anyone?

[SouBeachTalents]

Players that won rings against 73 win teams:

2016 LeBron
Players that win rings against a unanimous MVP: 2016 LeBron
Did I miss anyone?
Don't forget players who led both teams in every category

[ELITEpower23]

Wasnt double teams and zone defense illegal until 2004? :roll::oldlol:

NEXT

:dancin


Players that won rings against 73 win teams:

2016 LeBron
Players that win rings against a unanimous MVP: 2016 LeBron
Did I miss anyone?


Don't forget players who led both teams in every category

Damn :oldlol: Ran a train on OP. Got him sweatin now

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Yeah giannis doesn't quite make the cut and his team won multiple games without him in the conf finals.

Rest of the list looks great.

[000]

Having the ability to defeat max defensive attention is only 1 goat requirement - there's other requirements, and Giannis fulfills the main one of learning how to win, aka organic (not learning how to team-hop/collude like Magic/Lebron)..

Learning how to win requires adjusting one's game to teammates so both parties can achieve their maximum stats (or close to it).

Accordingly, Giannis learned how to play on the post and screen-set more often while shooting jumpshots at the right frequency and understanding that he must be a defensive anchor in the clutch.. This knowledge is transferrable to any team to win organically - Giannis won with Middleton and made Jrue a winner so he can certainly win with any of Lebron's casts.

What???

Giannis DESTROYS teammates

Jrue Holiday's peak capacity is 28/7 on 57%FG/63%TS, while holding prime Lillard to 18 on 35%FG - that's 94' Hakeem-level, yet Giannis turned him into a bum, with performances comparable to Pippen's worst - this is the biggest teammate reduction OF ALL-TIME - from GOAT to the opposite of GOAT

[000]

What???

Giannis DESTROYS teammates

Jrue Holiday's peak capacity is 28/7 on 57%FG/63%TS, while holding prime Lillard to 18 on 35%FG - that's 94 Hakeem-level, yet Giannis turned him into a bum, with performances comparable to Pippen's worst - this is the biggest teammate reduction OF ALL-TIME - from GOAT to the opposite of GOAT

https://i.gifer.com/150L.gif

[ShawkFactory]

It’s weird that you make this thread. Just make a Jordan > Lebron one and call it because this elementary (and incorrect) bullshit is embarrassing.

[ELITEpower23]

.
Players that won rings while averaging 10+ more than sidekick for Playoffs and Finals (since 1980, aka 3-pointer basketball)

91' Jordan
92' Jordan
93' Jordan
96' Jordan
97' Jordan
98' Jordan
00' Shaq
03' Duncan
06' Wade
09' Kobe
10' Kobe
15' Curry
19' Kawhi
21' Giannis


Did I miss anyone?

Is this just the list of bad passers forced to take bad shots that won a chip? :oldlol: Dumb

[3ba11]

What???

Giannis DESTROYS teammates

Jrue Holiday's peak capacity is 28/7 on 57%FG/63%TS, while holding prime Lillard to 18 on 35%FG - that's 94' Hakeem-level, yet Giannis turned him into a bum, with performances comparable to Pippen's worst - this is the biggest teammate reduction OF ALL-TIME - from GOAT to the opposite of GOAT


Jrue was 3rd option but averaged 17 and 9 assists in the Playoffs and Finals.... That would rank among Pippen's best runs, and Jrue was a 3rd option!!!...

So Lebron's ball-dominance turns 3rd options into complete bums like Bosh/Love, while other 3rd options still average 20 or dominate like Klay, Jrue, Manu, Ray Allen, Worthy, or Harden with the Nets last year and many more.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jrue was 3rd option but averaged 17 and 9 assists in the Playoffs and Finals.... That would rank among Pippen's best runs, and Jrue was a 3rd option!!!...

So Lebron's ball-dominance turns 3rd options into complete bums like Bosh/Love, while other 3rd options still average 20 or dominate like Klay, Jrue, Manu, Ray Allen, Worthy, or Harden with the Nets last year and many more.
Damn, 17 & 9 from your 3rd option is much more help than LeBron ever got in a title run, while Middleton put up better numbers than Wade did in '12 & '13.

[3ba11]

Damn, 17 & 9 from your 3rd option is much more help than LeBron ever got in a title run, while Middleton put up better numbers than Wade did in '12 & '13.


Are you really that retarded to not understand how frontcourt ball-dominance reduces Lebron's teammates to spot-up shooter?... You think it's coincidence that most of his teammates crater alongside him?... You think they just suddenly sucked when they joined him?....

LEBRON is responsible for that - Lebron makes them suck - his simpleton ball-dominance turns them to spot-up shooter... it's bball 101, but are you really this clueless?... If he had elite jumpshooting skill, then he could still get his elite stats partially off-ball, so teammates like Love/Bosh can still dominate like Jrue, Klay, Manu or Ray did at 3rd option

[zeerghit]

Are you really that retarded to not understand how frontcourt ball-dominance reduces Lebron's teammates to spot-up shooter?... You think it's coincidence that most of his teammates crater alongside him?... You think they just suddenly sucked when they joined him?....

LEBRON is responsible for that - Lebron makes them suck - his simpleton ball-dominance turns them to spot-up shooter... it's bball 101, but are you really this clueless?... If he had elite jumpshooting skill, then he could still get his elite stats partially off-ball, so teammates like Love/Bosh can still dominate like Jrue, Klay, Manu or Ray did at 3rd option
the irony of this looser:roll::roll:

[k0kakw0rld]

Having the ability to defeat max defensive attention is only 1 goat requirement - there's other requirements, and Giannis fulfills the main one of learning how to win, aka organic (not learning how to team-hop/collude like Magic/Lebron)..

Learning how to win requires adjusting one's game to teammates so both parties can achieve their maximum stats (or close to it).

Accordingly, Giannis learned how to play on the post and screen-set more often while shooting jumpshots at the right frequency and understanding that he must be a defensive anchor in the clutch.. This knowledge is transferrable to any team to win organically - Giannis won with Middleton and made Jrue a winner so he can certainly win with any of Lebron's casts.
Giannis won against injured teams. If this was LeBron we wouldn't hear the end of it. Asterisk here, you get one, you get one as well. Shut the fk up will you? Your existence revolves around talking about a guy who does not have a clue about your miserable existence.

[3ba11]

Giannis won against injured teams. If this was LeBron we wouldn't hear the end of it. Asterisk here, you get one, you get one as well. Shut the fk up will you? Your existence revolves around talking about a guy who does not have a clue about your miserable existence.


You guys hate Westbrook, but then praise Lebron for Westbrooking in the 2015 Finals - Lebron played exactly like Westbrook on offense and Kukoc on defense in that series, yet he was PRAISED for it and praised for losing in 6 games like it was an achievement...

So you guys are the ones that ignore facts and make up your own reality, whereas I merely cite the historical record and stats to make my points - all of my points about ball-dominance, jumpshooting and other things are backed up by STATS and DATA...

Try me - which 3ball argument do you think isn't supported by stats and data?

[hateraid]

10+ more points but significantly less in other stats and forces others to gaurd the best offensive player on the other team? That's easy

[hateraid]

the irony of this looser:roll::roll:

Really. OP is definitely has mental issues.

[3ba11]

10+ more points but significantly less in other stats and forces others to gaurd the best offensive player on the other team? That's easy


Jordan was always the primary defender on the opponent's best player like Magic, Drexler, Miller, Payton or Isiah, while Pippen was the primary defender on............. no one

[SouBeachTalents]

Are you really that retarded to not understand how frontcourt ball-dominance reduces Lebron's teammates to spot-up shooter?... You think it's coincidence that most of his teammates crater alongside him?... You think they just suddenly sucked when they joined him?....

LEBRON is responsible for that - Lebron makes them suck - his simpleton ball-dominance turns them to spot-up shooter... it's bball 101, but are you really this clueless?... If he had elite jumpshooting skill, then he could still get his elite stats partially off-ball, so teammates like Love/Bosh can still dominate like Jrue, Klay, Manu or Ray did at 3rd option
Going on this deranged "elite jumpshooting skill" rant when discussing mother fcking Giannis :oldlol:

But yeah, we get it. When LeBron's teammates play well, he has unprecedented help and gets zero credit for their level of play, when his teammate struggle, it's 100% his fault.

When someone else's teammates play well, it's a credit to their style of play, when they don't play well, they get zero criticism while getting credit for carrying a weak supporting cast

https://y.yarn.co/d850ac54-805c-4a9f-a73c-5a3b8cab2a27_text.gif

[Johnny32]

10+ more points but significantly less in other stats and forces others to gaurd the best offensive player on the other team? That's easy

lol right. how hard is it to score 10+ more points when you take 15 more shots and the second option does everything else on the court better than you.

[3ba11]

Going on this deranged "elite jumpshooting skill" rant when discussing mother fcking Giannis :oldlol:

But yeah, we get it. When LeBron's teammates play well, he has unprecedented help and gets zero credit for their level of play, when his teammate struggle, it's 100% his fault.

When someone else's teammates play well, it's a credit to their style of play, when they don't play well, they get zero criticism while getting credit for carrying a weak supporting cast

https://y.yarn.co/d850ac54-805c-4a9f-a73c-5a3b8cab2a27_text.gif


When did Lebron's teammates play well?

Aside from the occasional elite shooter that doesn't crater alongside Lebron (Mo, Kyrie), every other player type becomes a lower level player than they were without him.
'
that's really bad and an indictment on his skillset (low scoring/attacking diversity so he can't fit with many player types)

[SouBeachTalents]

When did Lebron's teammates play well?

Aside from the occasional elite shooter that doesn't crater alongside Lebron (Mo, Kyrie), every other player type becomes a lower level player than they were without him.
'
that's really bad and an indictment on his skillset (low scoring/attacking diversity so he can't fit with many player types)
:biggums: :oldlol:

What a clown

[rmt]

Are you really that retarded to not understand how frontcourt ball-dominance reduces Lebron's teammates to spot-up shooter?... You think it's coincidence that most of his teammates crater alongside him?... You think they just suddenly sucked when they joined him?....

LEBRON is responsible for that - Lebron makes them suck - his simpleton ball-dominance turns them to spot-up shooter... it's bball 101, but are you really this clueless?... If he had elite jumpshooting skill, then he could still get his elite stats partially off-ball, so teammates like Love/Bosh can still dominate like Jrue, Klay, Manu or Ray did at 3rd option

Manu never dominated as a 3rd option (2007 - averaged 16.7 pts in playoffs). He was 2nd option in 2005 (20.8pts).

[3ba11]

Manu never dominated as a 3rd option (2007 - averaged 16.7 pts in playoffs). He was 2nd option in 2005 (20.8pts).


I meant to say Harden, not Manu, who averaged 25+ alongside KD and Kyrie when that big 3 first formed (before all the injuries in the playoffs)

Guys with elite jumpshooting skill (KD, Kyrie) fit with anyone, so everyone plays to capacity alongside them (or close to it).. The same applied to the off-ball, jumpshot-heavy Jordan.

[Hey Yo]

I meant to say Harden, not Manu, who averaged 25+ alongside KD and Kyrie when that big 3 first formed (before all the injuries in the playoffs)

Guys with elite jumpshooting skill (KD, Kyrie) fit with anyone, so everyone plays to capacity alongside them (or close to it).. The same applied to the off-ball, jumpshot- heavy Jordan.

Harden's great play as 6th MOY is further proof that OKC was a superteam who were the favorites going into the that Finals.

[3ba11]

Harden's great play as 6th MOY is further proof that OKC was a superteam who were the favorites going into the that Finals.


Bench players can't be part of a super-team... that's another reason the 2nd three-peat Bulls weren't a super-team because Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs (and wasn't an all-star since 92' or an offensive player, aka the bulls won in spite of his 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs and were better with horace or any number of PF's who didn't make them play 4 on 5 offensively)

[Hey Yo]

Bench players can't be part of a super-team... that's another reason the 2nd three-peat Bulls weren't a super-team because Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs (and wasn't an all-star since 92' or an offensive player, aka the bulls won in spite of his 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs and were better with horace or any number of PF's who didn't make them play 4 on 5 offensively)

So why do you always mention bench player Ray Allen with Miami while calling them a superteam?

[000]

Jrue was 3rd option but averaged 17 and 9 assists in the Playoffs and Finals.... That would rank among Pippen's best runs, and Jrue was a 3rd option!!!...

So Lebron's ball-dominance turns 3rd options into complete bums like Bosh/Love, while other 3rd options still average 20 or dominate like Klay, Jrue, Manu, Ray Allen, Worthy, or Harden with the Nets last year and many more.
No player has ever played with prime Hakeem at 3rd option, let alone reduced Hakeem to below Middleton - so thanks for proving my point:facepalm

[Axe]

Harden's great play as 6th MOY is further proof that OKC was a superteam who were the favorites going into the that Finals.
But don't you think preseason odds are kinda useless oftentimes

[3ba11]

So why do you always mention bench player Ray Allen with Miami while calling them a superteam?


Ray gave the Heat 4 HOF's and Ray saved Lebron's carefully manufactured career from collapsing like a jenga puzzle

And here's Broussard making the obvious point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X3GJI8YYZw&t=19m07s

[SouBeachTalents]

Ray gave the Heat 4 HOF's and Ray saved Lebron's carefully manufactured career from collapsing like a jenga puzzle

And here's Broussard making the obvious point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X3GJI8YYZw&t=19m07s
The ‘96-‘98 Bulls had 4 HOF’s, a 5th if you include the coach

[3ba11]

The ‘96-‘98 Bulls had 4 HOF’s, a 5th if you include the coach


Everyone knows that Kukoc isn't HOF for his NBA career and the coach doesn't count because a lot of coaches will end up making the HOF like Spolestra, Blatt, Lue and probably even Brown.. Ultimately, the players make flawed gameplans work.

So the Bulls only had 2 players that were HOF's for their NBA career, while Rodman was more like 2010 Shaq except worse (4/8 in the 97 Playoffs and not the starter in the 98' Playoffs)

[SouBeachTalents]

Everyone knows that Kukoc isn't HOF for his NBA career and the coach doesn't count because a lot of coaches will end up making the HOF like Spolestra, Blatt, Lue and probably even Brown.. Ultimately, the players make flawed gameplans work.

So the Bulls only had 2 players that were HOF's for their NBA career, while Rodman was more like 2010 Shaq except worse (4/8 in the 97 Playoffs and not the starter in the 98' Playoffs)
Oh ok, so context matters for Jordan’s teammates, but not for LeBron’s. Got it

[3ba11]

Oh ok, so context matters for Jordan’s teammates, but not for LeBron’s. Got it


What context would you like included for Lebron's teammates?... Only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

[1987_Lakers]

Everyone knows that Kukoc isn't HOF for his NBA career and the coach doesn't count because a lot of coaches will end up making the HOF like Spolestra, Blatt, Lue and probably even Brown.. Ultimately, the players make flawed gameplans work.

So the Bulls only had 2 players that were HOF's for their NBA career, while Rodman was more like 2010 Shaq except worse (4/8 in the 97 Playoffs and not the starter in the 98' Playoffs)

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAC/confused-jaguarsfan.gif

[3ba11]

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAC/confused-jaguarsfan.gif


Brown might be a stretch, but Lue looks like he's going to have a long career and could easily get there.. He's already got 1 ring under his belt and the most comebacks from 1-3

Ultimately, only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

[1987_Lakers]

Brown might be a stretch, but Lue looks like he's going to have a long career and could easily get there.. He's already got 1 ring under his belt and the most comebacks from 1-3

And failed miserably with the Cavs once LeBron left.

[SouBeachTalents]

And failed miserably with the Cavs once LeBron left.
He also got fired in barely more than one season coaching his real favorite player on the Lakers

[3ba11]

And failed miserably with the Cavs once LeBron left.


Brown would've been Phil Jackson if Lebron just stayed and grabbed the 1-star, organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011 - those Cavs would've been the league favorite for the 3rd year running with the organic chemistry and reputed defense to beat those Mavs.

Remember, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior offensively to Pippen across the board - so the 09' Cavs already had a better team than the 90' Bulls, while adding Jamison/Shaq in 10' and surely another star or 2 in 2011. So they had more than enough to win it in 2011 anc have a dynasty after that.

[ShawkFactory]

Brown might be a stretch, but Lue looks like he's going to have a long career and could easily get there.. He's already got 1 ring under his belt and the most comebacks from 1-3

Ultimately, only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

One..?

[3ba11]

One..?


Clippers came back from 1-3 in the 2021 Playoffs

[3ba11]

One..?


he came back from 0-2 deficit twice in 2021 playoffs.. regardless, Lue is probably going to be HOF

[ShawkFactory]

Clippers came back from 1-3 in the 2021 Playoffs

They did not.

Mike Malone has done it twice.

[3ba11]

They did not.

Mike Malone has done it twice.


he came back from 0-2 deficit twice in 2021 playoffs.. regardless, Lue is probably going to be HOF

Ultimately, only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

[ShawkFactory]

I can’t decide what’s funnier:

1) trying to argue the “most 3-1 comebacks” as a coach to mean something
2) being wrong about the number

Too good :roll:

[3ba11]

I can’t decide what’s funnier:

1) trying to argue the “most 3-1 comebacks” as a coach to mean something
2) being wrong about the number

Too good :roll:


You're deflecting over a typo because you can't refute the substance that only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

[ShawkFactory]

You're deflecting over a typo because you can't refute the substance that only Lebron has teammates that outplay league MVP's (the most help possible), like Kyrie in the 16' Finals or Bosh in the 11' ECF, or AD in the 20' WCF (the "real" Finals)... How about Wade leading the way to the 11' Finals?

Show me where Kukoc, Pippen, Grant, BJ, Kerr or any of the other role players the Bulls had played on that kind of level?.. Jordan only has role player performance as help, except for a couple 2nd option performances that had lower gamescore than 95' Horry's Finals (non-elite caliber)

It’s not a typo it’s you using a bullshit argument and not knowing the facts on top of that. Stop backtracking. You’re such a weasel :lol

[Hey Yo]

Ray gave the Heat 4 HOF's and Ray saved Lebron's carefully manufactured career from collapsing like a jenga puzzle

And here's Broussard making the obvious point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X3GJI8YYZw&t=19m07s
Bench players aren't part of a superteam.

Your words not mine, Bozo. As usual you change the narrative when you get your ass handed to you.

[SouBeachTalents]

It’s not a typo it’s you using a bullshit argument and not knowing the facts on top of that. Stop backtracking. You’re such a weasel :lol
I don’t think he’s ever answered why such a great coach like Mike Brown got fired 83 games into his Lakers tenure while he had the 2nd greatest player of all time on his team.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUhMvB1P3A

[3ba11]

I don’t think he’s ever answered why such a great coach like Mike Brown got fired 83 games into his Lakers tenure while he had the 2nd greatest player of all time on his team.


I don't think Brown is a great coach but I don't think Phil and most HOF coaches are either - they simply luck out just like Brown would've if Lebron stayed and won 1-star, organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011 instead of bolting... So Phil benefitted from MJ sticking it out and beating the dynasty, while Brown lost out by Lebron bolting when it got tough.;

[ShawkFactory]

I don't think Brown is a great coach but I don't think Phil and most HOF coaches are either - they simply luck out just like Brown would've if Lebron stayed and won 1-star, organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011 instead of bolting... So Phil benefitted from MJ sticking it out and beating the dynasty, while Brown lost out by Lebron bolting when it got tough.;

What makes a great coach?

[3ba11]

What makes a great coach?


Every strategy has flaws so there are no great coaches - there's only great players to execute their flawed systems

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Johnny32]

Every strategy has flaws so there are no great coaches - there's only great players to execute their flawed systems

lol

[AirBonner]

Apparently Phil Jackson was a terrible coach