Why was Kobe infamously “inefficient?”

[outofstomach]

i see two conflicting narratives around here whenever kobe is brought up along with his stats, some of you say it’s because he picked bad shots and was too trigger happy, others say it’s because he faced extremely tough defenses + injuries, in addition to kobe being the go-to guy for bailout shots

so is it a combination of all of these factors/reasons or is there an actual answer removed from trolling?

genuinely curious

[Axe]

Well he seems to be a ballhog so obsessed in shooting the ball even if it wasn't logical to do so.

[Rysio]

That's a myth kobe for most of his prime was one of the most efficient players at his position.

[AirBonner]

That's a myth kobe for most of his prime was one of the most efficient players at his position.

So you going to ignore the majority of his career?

[Rysio]

So you going to ignore the majority of his career?

No I'm ignoring minority of his career.

[Baller789]

Poor shot selection and ego.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

2009-2010 title runs he has 46\36\86 shooting splits which is pretty efficient. So I would say it's exaggerated. I don't think he was as deadly of a scorer as Kawhi or Durant or Jordan can be. I also think Kobe lacks a true dominant peak year like the other top 10-15 guys.

His advanced stats suck for a top 10 guy and are more like a top 25 guy as well. Tough player to evaluate but i don't believe he's better then Kawhi.

[zeerghit]

2009-2010 title runs he has 46\36\86 shooting splits which is pretty efficient. So I would say it's exaggerated. I don't think he was as deadly of a scorer as Kawhi or Durant or Jordan can be. I also think Kobe lacks a true dominant peak year like the other top 10-15 guys.

His advanced stats suck for a top 10 guy and are more like a top 25 guy as well. Tough player to evaluate but i don't believe he's better then Kawhi.

this forum delivers as always:roll:

[iamgine]

Kobe was NOT inefficient in his percentage relative to the league's average. He was inefficient in a lot of his shot selection.

Imagine Durant just forcing every shot and never pass. He'd still likely be above league average in efficiency but would be quite a bit lower than what it is now.

[Bronbron23]

i see two conflicting narratives around here whenever kobe is brought up along with his stats, some of you say it’s because he picked bad shots and was too trigger happy, others say it’s because he faced extremely tough defenses + injuries, in addition to kobe being the go-to guy for bailout shots

so is it a combination of all of these factors/reasons or is there an actual answer removed from trolling?

genuinely curious

It's a combination of all the factors but the main 2 i'd say are the defensive era he was in and his inability to be as efficient on bailout shots and tough shots as someone like mj.

[Johnny32]

kobe's actually more offensively skilled than a player like jordan. his prime just came in an era where the average wing defender wasn't 6'3, 180 lbs. the rules of that era also allowed more defensive schemes than man/double. his low basketball iq/shot selection is also partly to blame.

[Bronbron23]

kobe's actually more offensively skilled than a player like jordan. his prime just came in an era where the average wing defender wasn't 6'3, 180 lbs. the rules of that era also allowed more defensive schemes than man/double. his low basketball iq/shot selection is also partly to blame.

https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/ once again this dipshit dosn't have a clue what he's talking about. 2 gaurds and small fowards were pretty much the same height as you can see by facts lol.

[Baller789]

https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/ once again this dipshit dosn't have a clue what he's talking about. 2 gaurds and small fowards were pretty much the same height as you can see by facts lol.

Any idea who Johnny32 alt belongs to?

[Johnny32]

kobe's actually more offensively skilled than a player like jordan. his prime just came in an era where the average wing defender wasn't 6'3, 180 lbs. the rules of that era also allowed more defensive schemes than man/double. his low basketball iq/shot selection is also partly to blame.

to touch on this further.

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

imagine if kobe's prime was in that ^ era.

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay

instead of that ^ era.

[Bronbron23]

Any idea who Johnny32 alt belongs to?

Nah i have no idea but he sounds like every other bron stan on here so he could be anyone of them or all of them lol

[expansionera]

https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/ once again this dipshit dosn't have a clue what he's talking about. 2 gaurds and small fowards were pretty much the same height as you can see by facts lol.

It’s not about the average height of a player but rather their capability, clearly Johnny32 demonstrates the capacity for 6’6+ wing defenders to make all defensive teams in the 00s/10s when defensive schemes became more sophisticated vs the iso heavy 90s wherein players were restricted on the defensive end

[Johnny32]

Any idea who Johnny32 alt belongs to?

i have no alt. i heard about this board from griff years ago but barely posted under my og account (vegasfraud).

[Baller789]

to touch on this further.

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

imagine if kobe's prime was in that ^ era.

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay

instead of that ^ era.

Whos dray?

[Bronbron23]

to touch on this further.

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

imagine if kobe's prime was in that ^ era.

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay

instead of that ^ era.

Already addressed this b.s. you left off plenty of players from 80/90 most likely because you have no knowledge of the game so you have no clue who they are

[paksat]

he's just great at making difficult shots

but that also makes him easier to guard in a way because you know he's going to take those stupid shots over and over and over.

[John_Connor]

he has the same point per shot as jordan till his Achilles injury

fg% doesn't mean everything

/thread

[SouBeachTalents]

A number of factors; being known as a ballhog, regularly taking very difficult and contested shots, actually being inefficient in all but one of his Finals, and having his most famous playoff performance be 6/24 will all add up to create that narrative.

[Hey Yo]

Whos dray?

:oldlol: ........ :facepalm

[Bronbron23]

It’s not about the average height of a player but rather their capability, clearly Johnny32 demonstrates the capacity for 6’6+ wing defenders to make all defensive teams in the 00s/10s when defensive schemes became more sophisticated vs the iso heavy 90s wherein players were restricted on the defensive end

Nah the only difference is offensively the nba became more perimeter focused so naturally perimeter defenders got more recognition. Defensive schemes weren't any different in the 2000's compared to the defensive schemes mj faced.

Just look at what 40 year old shell of himself mj did on the wizards in this era. Shit he gave one of the best perimeter defenders of the 2000's the buisness and even he told you mj would destroy that era. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qe6YEfRBPc4

[paksat]

he has the same point per shot as jordan till his Achilles injury

fg% doesn't mean everything

/thread

explain

[Bronbron23]

explain

I'm assuming he's talking ts with the three ball factor but i don't think this true especially for post season.

[paksat]

I'm assuming he's talking ts with the three ball factor but i don't think this true especially for post season.

I honestly wanna hear it, i'm intrigued

[Chick Stern]

Kobe was NOT inefficient in his percentage relative to the league's average. He was inefficient in a lot of his shot selection.

Imagine Durant just forcing every shot and never pass. He'd still likely be above league average in efficiency but would be quite a bit lower than what it is now.

This one cracks me up.
Who is the all-time SG playoff assists number 1?
Why don’t people make comments like this about Shaq? “He never pass” “he never shot 3s”
Why do people expect a shooting guard to be a passer?
What are Kobe’s 2 most iconic plays? The alley-oop to Shaq, and the pass for the 3 to Artest.
and FWIW, Durant has a lower career assist rate than Kobe did.

[Bronbron23]

I honestly wanna hear it, i'm intrigued

Yeah be interesting to see what he says. Both bron and mj had better fg% and ts% than kobe in the post season. Haven't looked at the finals specifically but my guess is they're even more efficient than kobe in the finals compared to reg session or post season in general

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah be interesting to see what he says. Both bron and mj had better fg% and ts% than kobe in the post season. Haven't looked at the finals specifically but my guess is they're even more efficient than kobe in the finals compared to reg session or post season in general
That's an understatement :lol Kobe was the least efficient ATG of the modern era in the Finals, at least of guys without a 1 or 2 series sample size.

[Bronbron23]

That's an understatement :lol Kobe was the least efficient ATG of the modern era in the Finals, at least of guys without a 1 or 2 series sample size.

Not surprised. He played most of his finals in the toughest scoring era ever. That combined with his age for the first three and his shot selection in general there's no surprised he'd be significantly worse.

[BigShotBob]

Not surprised. He played most of his finals in the toughest scoring era ever. That combined with his age for the first three and his shot selection in general there's no surprised he'd be significantly worse.

They don't care much for context

[Hey Yo]

Having the MDE as your 1st option makes it easier for teammates to score.

[Bronbron23]

They don't care much for context

Yeah its kind of crazy tbh. Every great defender who faced kobe talks about how he was the hardest player to defend yet apparently people on here who never played a nba game in their life know better. It's hilarious

[SouBeachTalents]

The excuses for Kobe's Finals inefficiency need to stop. Guys from the same era would routinely perform better AND more efficiently than Kobe would against the same competition. Just look at his first 2 title runs.

vs. 2000 Pacers
Allen: 22 on 55%TS
Iverson: 27 on 48%TS
Houston: 19 on 54%TS
Kobe: 16 on 41%TS

vs. 2001 Sixers
Reggie: 31 on 61%TS
Vince: 30 on 57%TS
Allen: 27 on 61%TS
Kobe: 25 on 50%TS

Then even in the FMVP years, look how Kobe performed compared to LeBron vs. Orlando & Wade vs. Boston, those two played SIGNFICANTLY better than Kobe did, on much higher efficiency, with worse supporting casts to boot.

I already know what the responses will be, that Kobe was extremely efficient against the Nets, his one outlier in 7 series, and that LeBron struggled just as much as Kobe did against the Celtics. But those outliers aside, more often than not, Kobe was almost always less efficient than his perimeter peers against the same competition.

The excuses that get made for a supposed top 10 player of all times individual performance are ridiculous, especially when they can be debunked with any research.

[Bronbron23]

The excuses for Kobe's Finals inefficiency need to stop. Guys from the same era would routinely perform better AND more efficiently than Kobe would against the same competition. Just look at his first 2 title runs.

vs. 2000 Pacers
Allen: 22 on 55%TS
Iverson: 27 on 48%TS
Houston: 19 on 54%TS
Kobe: 16 on 41%TS

vs. 2001 Sixers
Reggie: 31 on 61%TS
Vince: 30 on 57%TS
Allen: 27 on 61%TS
Kobe: 25 on 50%TS

Then even in the FMVP years, look how Kobe performed compared to LeBron vs. Orlando & Wade vs. Boston, those two played SIGNFICANTLY better than Kobe did, on much higher efficiency, with worse supporting casts to boot.

I already know what the responses will be, that Kobe was extremely efficient against the Nets, his one outlier in 7 series, and that LeBron struggled just as much as Kobe did against the Celtics. But those outliers aside, more often than not, Kobe was almost always less efficient than his perimeter peers against the same competition.

The excuses that get made for a supposed top 10 player of all times individual performance are ridiculous, especially when they can be debunked with any research.

It's not always as simple as stats dude. Kobe was similar to mj qnd more recently steph in that they draw so much of the Defensive attention. Bron dosn't really deal with this. Teams rarely feel like they need to double or Triple bron because if you don't he's gonna absolutely torch you. You can defend bron head up with regular help defense and he'll get his 25-30 as usual but it won't be any worse than that. This makes it easier for teams to defend brons teams because other players are gonna be open less due to not having to over help on bron. It's why his teams almost never had the number 1 offense.

This is clear as day to everyone who knows the game btw. The only people who don't see it are bron stans.

[Lebron23]

Poor Man's Jordan

[SouBeachTalents]

It's not always as simple as stats dude. Kobe was similar to mj qnd more recently steph in that they draw so much of the Defensive attention. Bron dosn't really deal with this. Teams rarely feel like they need to double or Triple bron because if you don't he's gonna absolutely torch you. You can defend bron head up with regular help defense and he'll get his 25-30 as usual but it won't be any worse than that. This makes it easier for teams to defend brons teams because other players are gonna be open less due to not having to over help on bron. It's why his teams almost never had the number 1 offense.

This is clear as day to everyone who knows the game btw. The only people who don't see it are bron stans.
Huh? LeBron averages more ppg in the playoffs than Kobe does, and is 6th all time in career playoff ppg, so I'm not sure what "won't be any worse than that" is supposed to mean. He's legitimately as great a playoff scorer as anybody besides Jordan. Hell, he averaged more ppg in his first ever playoff series than Kobe did in his entire career :lol

But LeBron has virtually nothing to do with the point I was making in my previous post. Just dismissing the factual record and evidence of his performance as "just stats" is bullshit imo and a copout. Every superstar caliber player is the focus of the opposing teams defense, and none of them shot as inefficiently in the Finals as Kobe did on a regular basis, even with peak Shaq on the team.

[Bronbron23]

Huh? LeBron averages more ppg in the playoffs than Kobe does, and is 6th all time in career playoff ppg, so I'm not sure what "won't be any worse than that" is supposed to mean. He's legitimately as great a playoff scorer as anybody besides Jordan. Hell, he averaged more ppg in his first ever playoff series than Kobe did in his entire career :lol

But LeBron has virtually nothing to do with the point I was making in my previous post. Just dismissing the factual record and evidence of his performance as "just stats" is bullshit imo and a copout. Every superstar caliber player is the focus of the opposing teams defense, and none of them shot as inefficiently in the Finals as Kobe did on a regular basis, even with peak Shaq on the team.

Dude you missed the point. I know he averaged more ppg. The argument is the reason he did that is because he faces less defensive attention than kobe.

[Rysio]

The excuses for Kobe's Finals inefficiency need to stop. Guys from the same era would routinely perform better AND more efficiently than Kobe would against the same competition. Just look at his first 2 title runs.

vs. 2000 Pacers
Allen: 22 on 55%TS
Iverson: 27 on 48%TS
Houston: 19 on 54%TS
Kobe: 16 on 41%TS

vs. 2001 Sixers
Reggie: 31 on 61%TS
Vince: 30 on 57%TS
Allen: 27 on 61%TS
Kobe: 25 on 50%TS

Then even in the FMVP years, look how Kobe performed compared to LeBron vs. Orlando & Wade vs. Boston, those two played SIGNFICANTLY better than Kobe did, on much higher efficiency, with worse supporting casts to boot.

I already know what the responses will be, that Kobe was extremely efficient against the Nets, his one outlier in 7 series, and that LeBron struggled just as much as Kobe did against the Celtics. But those outliers aside, more often than not, Kobe was almost always less efficient than his perimeter peers against the same competition.

The excuses that get made for a supposed top 10 player of all times individual performance are ridiculous, especially when they can be debunked with any research.

For 01 Allen and vince played 7 games vs kobes 5 and they were forced to score every game so they had some hot games that make the averages look great kobe had no hot games and was only looking to score in 2 out of 5 games.

[j3lademaster]

Because he's held to top 10 all-time standards.

[999Guy]

It's not always as simple as stats dude. Kobe was similar to mj qnd more recently steph in that they draw so much of the Defensive attention. Bron dosn't really deal with this. Teams rarely feel like they need to double or Triple bron because if you don't he's gonna absolutely torch you. You can defend bron head up with regular help defense and he'll get his 25-30 as usual but it won't be any worse than that. This makes it easier for teams to defend brons teams because other players are gonna be open less due to not having to over help on bron. It's why his teams almost never had the number 1 offense.

This is clear as day to everyone who knows the game btw. The only people who don't see it are bron stans.
Kobe didn’t get more defensive attention than Prime LeBron, ever. Especially not on a team with ****ing peak Shaq.

[Bronbron23]

Kobe didn’t get more defensive attention than Prime LeBron, ever. Especially not on a team with ****ing peak Shaq.

I agree he didn't while he was shaq but kobe was still pretty young with shaq. In his prime after shaq he absolutely faced more defensive attention than bron did.

[bizil]

Kobe ACTUALLY shot a good FG%. 45% for a high volume perimeter scorer ISN'T great. But AIN'T bad either. But when u see guys like MJ, Gervin, Bird, KD, Bron, etc. shooting 50% and even higher CONSISTENTLY, it's MORE IMPRESSIVE to me. It's means their shot selection is impeccable. And they ONLY resort to hero ball when it was time. As great as the Mamba was, he was MORE HERO BALL BASED. Even when the game situations didn't call for it. The BIGGEST difference between him and MJ was shot selection. When u look at that Golden Age of SG's, Mamba, AI, T Mac, and Vince were NEVER great FG% type of guys. Wasn't just Kobe, just a sign of the times. Hell even Ray Allen NEVER shot 50% FG in a season for his career. With that said, FG% can be OVERRATED at times.

[HoopsNY]

Kobe's inefficiency is being overblown here. Take a look at prime years for him and guys from his era and their primes both reg season and playoffs:

Kobe '99-'13: 46% | 45%

Allen '98-'11: 45% | 45%

Iverson '97-'08: 43% | 40%

Carter '99-'09: 45% | 42%

McGrady '01-'08: 44% | 43%

Miller '99-'01: 44% | 44% (backend of prime)

Ellis '08-'15: 45% | 44%

Redd '04-'09: 44% | 47% (limited playoff time)

Hamilton '01-'10: 45% | 44%

Houston '99-'04: 45% | 46% (limited playoff time)

Wade '05-'17: 48% | 48%

Kobe shot the ball better than everyone here not named D. Wade but usually faced much tougher competition given his time spent in the Western Conference. The rest of these guys with the exception of Ellis were out East. So, what are Kobe haters really ranting for?

[Honor Boost]

He lacked mid shooting and power like Kawhi and MJ

[Micku]

I agree he didn't while he was shaq but kobe was still pretty young with shaq. In his prime after shaq he absolutely faced more defensive attention than bron did.

Kind'a.

Imo, the main difference is that LeBron pass out of a lot of double teams and is much smarter with his shot selection. Although you do find players sagging off LeBron a lot more than they sag off Kobe.

Kobe is more of a threat anywhere on the floor, but he did take ill advised shots. He admits to not passing to Shaq a few times even though Shaq said he was open. He sometimes breaks from the offense and try to force the issue. It's always been his issue. But the type of shots he'll make would demoralize his opponents and they all gained the top respect for him.

But basically, Kobe usually would shoot those tough shots. And LeBron usually would pass those shots up. But when Kobe was hot, that is probably the most dangerous scorer I seen. He'll take so many bad shots, and it goes in. He'll get a bunch of pts on you quick. LeBron knows his strengths and weaknesses. He knows his spots on the floor. Kobe thought the whole floor was his spot.

But as people said, it's a bit unfair to even judge his FG% or TS% to other eras. It's best to judge him relatively to his era. But even with that said, he took a lot of bad shots because of ego. He would try to do hero ball. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But he was never afraid of the moment. So, that's why imo Kobe never shot better from the field. Not cuz he couldn't do it. It's cuz of he thought he was that dude. And he never cared for FG% as much as Wade and LeBron anyway. They even said it.



“It’s like a competition me and D-Wade are having right now about who can shoot 50 percent, in each and every game,” James said, when asked a couple of days later. “I had no idea, because I don’t know what’s going on throughout the game as far as stats. I came in after the game, I saw 9-for-19 [against the Bobcats in late December] and I missed that last long three, I felt I could have gotten into the lane and got a layup. I’ve got to make up for it.” [...]

“Early in my career, I didn’t take every shot as seriously as I do now, to be more efficient,” James said. “It comes with age, it comes with experience. You know, when you’re an 18 year old rookie, or a 21-year-old, third year in the league, you can get away with a lot of mistakes, and not looking at numbers as much. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve been more efficient, taking care of the ball. I value possessions more.”

“We’re both so conscious of wanting to shoot 50 percent, that sometimes you wish you had that Kobe (Bryant) thought, where you just don’t care,” Wade said. “We talk about it all the time. It sucks at times, but it’s who we are.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-compete-efficiency-stats-sly-145018924--nba.html?a20=1

[outofstomach]

some insightful stuff in here, bumping again just in case anyone might have anything else to chip in on this site

[Full Court]

Poor shot selection and ego.

Yep, this. It's a pretty simple answer.

[WhiteKyrie]

Bad shots due to gunner maverick / hero ball or legend myth making mentality … rooted in at times extreme over confidence (ego) but with admittedly great difficult shot making ability. So it affected efficiency but also gave him even more confidence going forward to take difficult shots. Also was very jump shot happy to begin with. And wasn’t shy to take end of shot clock, half, or game bail out shots no matter how many defenders were on him.

[LAL]

Kind'a.

Imo, the main difference is that LeBron pass out of a lot of double teams and is much smarter with his shot selection. Although you do find players sagging off LeBron a lot more than they sag off Kobe.

Kobe is more of a threat anywhere on the floor, but he did take ill advised shots. He admits to not passing to Shaq a few times even though Shaq said he was open. He sometimes breaks from the offense and try to force the issue. It's always been his issue. But the type of shots he'll make would demoralize his opponents and they all gained the top respect for him.

But basically, Kobe usually would shoot those tough shots. And LeBron usually would pass those shots up. But when Kobe was hot, that is probably the most dangerous scorer I seen. He'll take so many bad shots, and it goes in. He'll get a bunch of pts on you quick. LeBron knows his strengths and weaknesses. He knows his spots on the floor. Kobe thought the whole floor was his spot.

But as people said, it's a bit unfair to even judge his FG% or TS% to other eras. It's best to judge him relatively to his era. But even with that said, he took a lot of bad shots because of ego. He would try to do hero ball. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But he was never afraid of the moment. So, that's why imo Kobe never shot better from the field. Not cuz he couldn't do it. It's cuz of he thought he was that dude. And he never cared for FG% as much as Wade and LeBron anyway. They even said it.


https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-compete-efficiency-stats-sly-145018924--nba.html?a20=1

What a fool.. You don't need to compare their shot selection at all lol, lebron passes up ANY contested or off ball shot basically (depends on his fg% at that moment), the type shots ANY perimeter player takes who doesn't focus on triple doubles and just try to at least be a threat to opponents defense, which isn't easy and pretty unforgiving as far as % and stat sheets go.

No need to go in detail about Kobe and Shaq, they dominated tf out of the league and won a three peat. Focus on lebron's 4/10 in 20 healthy seasons, his superteam issues, eastern conference, his weaknesses etc..

Kobe basically played a different sport you statnerd.

[rawimpact]

Kobe played against the most defensive minded players his whole career. Spurs, Kings, Blazers etc....

[Hey Yo]

Kobe played against the most defensive minded players his whole career. Spurs, Kings, Blazers etc....

But only faced one of those teams in the playoffs without Shaq...... 2008 Spurs.

[Full Court]

When it comes to "infamously inefficient" though, Allen Iverson is the champ.

[WhiteKyrie]

When it comes to "infamously inefficient" though, Allen Iverson is the champ.

Don’t fully agree with this either. Not a very nuanced take

[Pointguard]

Kobe ACTUALLY shot a good FG%. 45% for a high volume perimeter scorer ISN'T great. But AIN'T bad either. But when u see guys like MJ, Gervin, Bird, KD, Bron, etc. shooting 50% and even higher CONSISTENTLY, it's MORE IMPRESSIVE to me. It's means their shot selection is impeccable. And they ONLY resort to hero ball when it was time. As great as the Mamba was, he was MORE HERO BALL BASED. Even when the game situations didn't call for it. The BIGGEST difference between him and MJ was shot selection. When u look at that Golden Age of SG's, Mamba, AI, T Mac, and Vince were NEVER great FG% type of guys. Wasn't just Kobe, just a sign of the times. Hell even Ray Allen NEVER shot 50% FG in a season for his career. With that said, FG% can be OVERRATED at times.

I agree with most of what you wrote but in fairness to Ray Allen he shot over 40% for his career from 3 point land in the playoffs and regular season - first to do that with high volume. Even Steph and Dame can't claim that. And Ray did it relying less on picks than the other great shooters. And that's not overrating his shooting at all. Ray was one of those guys that you could tell his TS% was very high by watching alone.

[warriorfan]

Kobe ACTUALLY shot a good FG%. 45% for a high volume perimeter scorer ISN'T great. But AIN'T bad either. But when u see guys like MJ, Gervin, Bird, KD, Bron, etc. shooting 50% and even higher CONSISTENTLY, it's MORE IMPRESSIVE to me. It's means their shot selection is impeccable. And they ONLY resort to hero ball when it was time. As great as the Mamba was, he was MORE HERO BALL BASED. Even when the game situations didn't call for it. The BIGGEST difference between him and MJ was shot selection. When u look at that Golden Age of SG's, Mamba, AI, T Mac, and Vince were NEVER great FG% type of guys. Wasn't just Kobe, just a sign of the times. Hell even Ray Allen NEVER shot 50% FG in a season for his career. With that said, FG% can be OVERRATED at times.

I like this post. I got into a argument with a friend awhile back in group text when he was fading kobe and i told him all the wings of the era were in the same boat. Basically said the same thing you said, look up all those guys and their efficiency stats, or league side efficiency. It was a different game back then both from a rule standpoint and a strategic/analytic standpoint.

[Pointguard]

Kobe's inefficiency is being overblown here. Take a look at prime years for him and guys from his era and their primes both reg season and playoffs:

Kobe '99-'13: 46% | 45%

Allen '98-'11: 45% | 45%

Iverson '97-'08: 43% | 40%

Carter '99-'09: 45% | 42%

McGrady '01-'08: 44% | 43%

Miller '99-'01: 44% | 44% (backend of prime)

Ellis '08-'15: 45% | 44%

Redd '04-'09: 44% | 47% (limited playoff time)

Hamilton '01-'10: 45% | 44%

Houston '99-'04: 45% | 46% (limited playoff time)

Wade '05-'17: 48% | 48%

Kobe shot the ball better than everyone here not named D. Wade but usually faced much tougher competition given his time spent in the Western Conference. The rest of these guys with the exception of Ellis were out East. So, what are Kobe haters really ranting for?

Against the East in the playoffs is where he took his biggest hits against his %. You can tell the East really bothered him. It was toughter to score against the East for guards.

[Axe]

Don’t fully agree with this either. Not a very nuanced take
:oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

I wasn't there to stop him from talking about how zone defenses are difficult to break

[Atlantis]

He just wasn't an great shooter, period.

A player's free throw percentage is a good indicator of his shooting.

Kobe's was always in the LOW 80%. Great shooters' free throw percentages are in the high 90%, and elite shooters are above 90%.

[tpols]

When Kobe won? He wasn't inefficient. He mainly lost when he wasn't. The rate at which you put the ball in the basket matters.

He did shot jack a lot, but it was enough to where he did have his down moments but his aggressiveness allowed highs on the other end of the spectrum.

We're talking about a guy who the only MVP winners ever to win more championships were MJ and Bill Russell. That's nuts. And some of yall act like he didn't contribute to winning even after Shaq was gone. And Kobe still won after that.

[warriorfan]

He just wasn't an great shooter, period.

A player's free throw percentage is a good indicator of his shooting.

Kobe's was always in the LOW 80%. Great shooters' free throw percentages are in the high 90%, and elite shooters are above 90%.

at first along time ago when I heard about this correlation I was skeptical but the more and more I tested it, it’s pretty legit.

that being said guys who shoot low 80’s are usually pretty damn good shooters. and for kobe and some others I would make a slight exception when a lot of their level of difficulty of shots are so high, other factors come into play besides pure shooting ability.

so while I do think FT% is a great metric to gauge overall shooting ability, In Kobe’s case with his shot selection and physical talents and coordination, coupled with top tier work ethic… Kobe was in fact a better real game shooter then his FT% indicates….and with all that being said his lackluster FG% is a testimony to his extremely difficult shot selection.

analytic guys don’t take into account the other side of the double edged sword with this play style. They only take into account the fictional projections of getting a better shot without acknowledging the extra defensive pressure a player like kobe generates when he’s that type of hair trigger weapon.

[SATAN]

He was quite an efficient rapist :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

Kobe wasn't a bad shooter but with him having one of the best coaches ever and what should be the most hours practicing, it should have been better. His gym hours are legendary but his shooting never was. Dude was dedicated and its hard to say anybody was more dedicated. Phil Jackson knew that triangle inside out as did Kobe. Its rare to have 15 year advantage with a coach and winning offensive system. A slowed down, jump shooting Jordan shot better than Kobe did in the same system. Kobe was very consistent and shot close to 45% most of his career. If he was always taking tough shots it was because of the way he played. AI was the same way - his height was a major factor tho.