Would Kareem be viewed as the undisputed GOAT nowadays had he won in 1972 and 1974.

[coastalmarker99]

I do seriously believe that Kareem nowadays would be acknowledged as the undisputed GOAT had he won the title in 1972 and 1974.


As People forget just how close Kareem was to winning the title in those two years

In 1972 WCF, Kareem (34, 18, 5, .48,2 TS) totally outplayed Wilt (11, 19, 3, .47,2 TS).

But the Lakers won the series 4-2.

However, the Bucks lost games by 1, 3, and 4 points to the Lakers!

Oscar played terribly (9, 5, 6, .40.2 TS).

If Oscar plays even average, the Bucks win those close ones and win the series.

In the Finals, the Lakers easily beat Knicks 4-1 to win the title (Reed was injured).

So Bucks would have likely won the title too against New york.


In the 1974 Finals Kareem was awesome: 33, 12, 5, .55.2 TS.

But he got little help from (Oscar: 12, 4, 8, .47.6 TS).

The bucks ultimately ended up losing 4-3 to the Celtics.


If Kareem's teammates had played slightly better the Bucks win the title that year as well.


Therefore If Kareem's teammates had played decently in 1972 & 1974 POs:

Kareem in his first 5 seasons with the Bucks would have won

3 MVPs (plus one robbed from him in 1973.

3 rings

3 FMVPs


And for his career, he'd have 8 rings and 4 FMVPs to go along with 6 regular season MVP's

These numbers (along with his legendary stats) would make him the undisputed GOAT in most people eyes nowadays.

[coastalmarker99]

With Kareem adding rings and FMVPs in 1972 and 1974.

Here is how the GOAT debate would look nowadays


MVPs:
6 KAJ
5 MJ
4 LBJ

1st All-NBA:
13 LBJ
10 KAJ
10 MJ


NBA All-Defensive First Team

9 MJ
5 KAJ
5 LBJ


FMVPs
6 MJ
4 KAJ
4 LBJ

Finals record:
8-3 KAJ
6-0 MJ
4-6 LBJ


Kareem would have the edge on Lebron and Jordan in almost everything besides FMVPs and 1st All-NBA and first-team all-defensive teams.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No because his career wasn't recent enough. It's not fair but it's true. Besides Jordan was getting called the greatest ever after the first 3peat. His case was more about overwhelming individual dominance. Jabbar had that as well but the recency bias is a major factor. You then add on the second 3peat and the other accomplishments that came with it and he got put in his own class even though I would agree that Jabbar should be in the discussion. A shame because he's the closest thing the NBA has to a Brady-like career.

[coastalmarker99]

No because his career wasn't recent enough. It's not fair but it's true. Besides Jordan was getting called the greatest ever after the first 3peat. His case was more about overwhelming individual dominance. Jabbar had that as well but the recency bias is a major factor. You then add on the second 3peat and the other accomplishments that came with it and he got put in his own class even though I would agree that Jabbar should be in the discussion. A shame because he's the closest thing the NBA has to a Brady-like career.


Brady is a machine I can't believe at age 44 that he might win another MVP award plus another super bowl.

[paksat]

Brady is a machine I can't believe at age 44 that he might win another MVP award plus another super bowl.

at this point honestly, he's probably the greatest "athlete" ever.

I say athlete like that because he isn't much of an athele, but his job title is "athlete."

[iamgine]

No because 70s titles don't seem to be taken that seriously, what with the pre-merger and all.

[Full Court]

I don't know about undisputed, but I think I'd give him the edge.

[Thenameless]

Kareem would still have the same problem as Jordan.

Wilt has better stats, and Russell more Championships.

[expansionera]

No big media machine to promote him like Jordan, Kareem isn’t even considered top 3 unanimously above guys like Bird, Kobe and Magic who had more charismatic personalities, dazzling perimeter play style, and didn’t spend their prime playing in Finals with tape delay.

Fair or not, players prior to the 80s will never be evaluated seriously next to their modern day counterparts. I bet my right arm most guys would put Jokic in their fantasy starting five before Bill Russell, for example.

[Baller789]

No.
Because he isn't a perimeter player.

[Gimmedarock]

Ain’t no way a back to basket player should be in the discussion. People want to see guys on the perimeter making plays for others, hitting the three, breaking guys down. A guy shooting a hook shot isn’t getting much love in 2021.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm surprised you brought up 1972. The Bucks did lose a very close series and Kareem's averages at first glance are ridiculous. But you failed to include the fact Kareem needed to take an astounding 33 shots per game to average his 34, and in 3 of their 4 losses he had games of

33 points on 15/37
28 points on 13/33
37 points on 16/37

He was putting up Iverson/2015 LeBron volume and efficiency, as a center, to get those scoring numbers. And it's not like the Lakers played some flawless series. West averaged 22 points on 23 shots and 35%, while their leading scorer from that year Gail Goodrich averaged 19 points on 19 shots and 40%. Even Wilt only shot 45% in that series. And I haven't even mentioned the fact Kareem averaged 23 points on 24 shots the previous round.

[SouBeachTalents]

As for the rest of your thread, I'm in full agreement 1974 was a huge missed opportunity for Kareem. He had an excellent statline and would've had one of the greatest/most clutch buckets in league history, his GW in double OT in Game 6, had the Bucks went on to win the series. My only nitpick for that series is he did get outplayed by Cowens in Game 7, and it hurts to lose a Game 7 of the Finals at home by 15 points.

Other ones I'm honestly very surprised you didn't bring up

1977: I know, they got swept in the conference finals, but this is a season many refer to as Kareem's peak. He averaged a ridiculous 35/18/4/2/4 on 61% in the playoffs, and even though he got swept he decisively outplayed peak Walton h2h in the series.

1980: Another ridiculous playoff run for Kareem, 32/12/3/4 on 57%, and he was far and away the best player in the Finals in the 5 games he played. He was literally voted FMVP, but since he wasn't in attendance, CBS requested that the voters change their vote to Magic instead. So that's a deserved FMVP that was legitimately taken away from him for completely non basketball related reasons.

1984: While Kareem had obv taken a step back at this point in his career, he was still a legitimate superstar/top 5 player in the league. Chances are excellent he wins an additional title & FMVP this series if Magic doesn't have one of the worst choke jobs in Finals history, making numerous mistakes and bad plays in the clutch throughout the series.

[Chick Stern]

Kareem is the undisputed GOAT

[mr4speed]

As for the rest of your thread, I'm in full agreement 1974 was a huge missed opportunity for Kareem. He had an excellent statline and would've had one of the greatest/most clutch buckets in league history, his GW in double OT in Game 6, had the Bucks went on to win the series. My only nitpick for that series is he did get outplayed by Cowens in Game 7, and it hurts to lose a Game 7 of the Finals at home by 15 points.

Other ones I'm honestly very surprised you didn't bring up

1977: I know, they got swept in the conference finals, but this is a season many refer to as Kareem's peak. He averaged a ridiculous 35/18/4/2/4 on 61% in the playoffs, and even though he got swept he decisively outplayed peak Walton h2h in the series.

1980: Another ridiculous playoff run for Kareem, 32/12/3/4 on 57%, and he was far and away the best player in the Finals in the 5 games he played. He was literally voted FMVP, but since he wasn't in attendance, CBS requested that the voters change their vote to Magic instead. So that's a deserved FMVP that was legitimately taken away from him for completely non basketball related reasons.

1984: While Kareem had obv taken a step back at this point in his career, he was still a legitimate superstar/top 5 player in the league. Chances are excellent he wins an additional title & FMVP this series if Magic doesn't have one of the worst choke jobs in Finals history, making numerous mistakes and bad plays in the clutch throughout the series.
Great post!! Totally agree and think Kareem often gets forgotten because for a big part of his career he did not like the press and his sullen attitude did not help him. We are not to judge another person if we cannot walk in their footsteps , and Kareem's resume is amazing. IF he had Magic's enthusiasm and outgoing personality, Kareem would be looked on by many more as the goat.