Here's a hot take for the nostalgia clowns

[Ne 1]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

[Proctor]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

https://www.bestplaces.net/images/city/Middletown_NY.gif

[Full Court]

Giannis is better than Ewing. I'm not sure Middleton is better than Starks though. I'll have to think about that one.

[FromDowntown]

Giannis is better than Ewing. I'm not sure Middleton is better than Starks though. I'll have to think about that one.

middletown poos on starks face for breakfast

[Kblaze8855]

Are you under the impression that people thought Starks was a real star?

He played till deep into his 30s and I bet he was a full time starter 4-5 seasons.

[Baller789]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

Why do you wanna diss the history of basketball?

You too will get old someday. Do you want the next generation to $h!t on yours?

Unless of course you commit suicide before then which is also possible.

[SATAN]

Never heard anyone claim Starks was better but I'm sure a certain poster who's user name rhymes with tree fall will come in here and boldly make the claim any minute now...

[Johnny32]

Giannis is better than Ewing. I'm not sure Middleton is better than Starks though. I'll have to think about that one.

LeROFL.

[Bawkish]

in 10 years, OP will become one of these nostalgia clowns :lol

[HylianNightmare]

Getting old sucks

[Reggie43]

I dont know about comparing just duos but those Knicks team at their best would be a real hard matchup for the Bucks with the bodies they can throw at Giannis starting with Oakley, Mason, Smith and then Ewing waiting at the rim.

[TheGoatest]

John Starks never cracked 20 ppg and only has two seasons where he averaged over 15.3 ppg. His shooting percentage was constantly in the low 40s. Khris Middleton has 3 20 ppg seasons and has averaged at least 18 ppg his last 8 seasons, with the exception of one where he was injured. His other numbers are better than Starks' numbers as well.

Yet here we are actually debating which of these two players was better.

[SATAN]

John Starks never cracked 20 ppg and only has two seasons where he averaged over 15.3 ppg.

Jeff Hornacek only had two seasons in Utah where he cracked 15ppg.

[Axe]

So funny af these role players from the past have still made the finals somehow..

[Ne 1]

I dont know about comparing just duos but those Knicks team at their best would be a real hard matchup for the Bucks with the bodies they can throw at Giannis starting with Oakley, Mason, Smith and then Ewing waiting at the rim.LMAO! They would get ran! If you think them any of them dudes can step out and guard Greek freak off the dribble you should really stop talking basketball!

[Thenameless]

I dont know about comparing just duos but those Knicks team at their best would be a real hard matchup for the Bucks with the bodies they can throw at Giannis starting with Oakley, Mason, Smith and then Ewing waiting at the rim.

I agree. But on the matter of duo vs duo, I think the modern one has the advantage. Ewing was a great defensive stopper and a good scorer but he just can't compare to a two time MVP and FMVP. And I'd take Middleton over Starks, so it's a pretty easy decision.

Now, if OP thinks that nostalgia players are no good, why don't we do a poll of Giannis/Middleton vs. Shaq/Kobe or Magic/Kareem.

[Reggie43]

LMAO! They would get ran! If you think them any of them dudes can step out and guard Greek freak off the dribble you should really stop talking basketball!

In a halfcourt set were games get decided in the playoffs because the pace is slowed down Giannis is not beating that whole Knicks frontline off the dribble easily.

Anthony Mason for one was a combo forward who is good enough to guard quicker players and strong enough to guard centers in the post and even made an All defensive team. Charles Smith was also a capable defender and at 6'10 had the length to compete against anyone.

This was the same Knicks frontline that was able to contain Olajuwon and was a fingertip away from winning a championship yet they would have no answer for Giannis? If you really believe that you should really stop talking basketball!

[Reggie43]

I agree. But on the matter of duo vs duo, I think the modern one has the advantage. Ewing was a great defensive stopper and a good scorer but he just can't compare to a two time MVP and FMVP. And I'd take Middleton over Starks, so it's a pretty easy decision.

Now, if OP thinks that nostalgia players are no good, why don't we do a poll of Giannis/Middleton vs. Shaq/Kobe or Magic/Kareem.

True but the advantage is because Starks is barely an Allstar and people dont realize how good Oakley, Mason, Smith and their other players were if we go strictly by duos.

Im not saying those Knicks definitely beats them just that it would be a hard fought matchup that could go either way.

[Ne 1]

In a halfcourt set were games get decided in the playoffs because the pace is slowed down Giannis is not beating that whole Knicks frontline off the dribble easily.

Anthony Mason for one was a combo forward who is good enough to guard quicker players and strong enough to guard centers in the post and even made an All defensive team. Charles Smith was also a capable defender and at 6'10 had the length to compete against anyone.

This was the same Knicks frontline that was able to contain Olajuwon and was a fingertip away from winning a championship yet they would have no answer for Giannis? If you really believe that you should really stop talking basketball!
I didn't say all of them at once! I said all them individually. No one on the knocks the front court got anything for break! They either too slow in or too small!

Face it, that Knicks team’s #2 guy was John Starks he shot 39% from the floor, if there was an NBA team whose second option shot 39% from the floor they were blasted by 40 today!

And are you seriously going to sit up here and say Anthony Mason or Charles Smith can guard The Greek freak?

There was no Greek freak in the '90s. Let's stop that now! They never had to guard anyone with that type of length and athleticism!

But from watching the film with those two do you honestly think they can guard The Greek freak?

[paksat]

why can't you sorry ass "new" schoolers that just hoist 3's all day accept the fact you're inferior?

they put the rules back to similar what they were and harden, the best player in the league by some accounts, fell off the face of the earth. Damian do I even need to mention? They went to the olympics and immediately lost multiple games, you suck.

[Phoenix]

I didn't say all of them at once! I said all them individually. No one on the knocks the front court got anything for break! They either too slow in or too small!

Face it, that Knicks team’s #2 guy was John Starks he shot 39% from the floor, if there was an NBA team whose second option shot 39% from the floor they were blasted by 40 today!

And are you seriously going to sit up here and say Anthony Mason or Charles Smith can guard The Greek freak?

There was no Greek freak in the '90s. Let's stop that now! They never had to guard anyone with that type of length and athleticism!

But from watching the film with those two do you honestly think they can guard The Greek freak?

No-one on the Knicks individually can or would guard him. They'd probably employ the same tactics the Raptors did in 2019, build a wall and use a laterally quick defender out front ( Kawhi). Which, in the scenario being discussed here, means walling off the rim with Ewing, Oakley, Charles Smith,Mason and then using someone like Derek Harper or Gerald Wilkins as the on-ball defender for Giannis. How successful that would be, I can't say, but that's likely the defense that would be used.

[HoopsNY]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

Yea they're definitely a better duo, but the Knicks weren't just Ewing and Starks. They had guys like Mason, Oakley, X-Man, Harper, and were coached by legendary Pat Riley.

The Knicks were a great opponent because they were a great TEAM.

[HoopsNY]

I didn't say all of them at once! I said all them individually. No one on the knocks the front court got anything for break! They either too slow in or too small!

Face it, that Knicks team’s #2 guy was John Starks he shot 39% from the floor, if there was an NBA team whose second option shot 39% from the floor they were blasted by 40 today!

And are you seriously going to sit up here and say Anthony Mason or Charles Smith can guard The Greek freak?

There was no Greek freak in the '90s. Let's stop that now! They never had to guard anyone with that type of length and athleticism!

But from watching the film with those two do you honestly think they can guard The Greek freak?

The relevant years are 1991-94. Starks shot 43%. 43% is right on par with a lot of SGs, just look at the 2000s where guys like Iverson, Carter, Allen, T-Mac, etc, amongst others shot the ball at that rate.

Starks was a mix of some offense, athleticism, and great defense. You're minimizing him because you hate MJ, not because you hate the 90s.

As far as guarding Giannis, no one is claiming that the Knicks would necessarily shut him down, but you have to understand how their interior defense was, which is something largely absent from the league the last 6 years. It wouldn't allow Giannis to run into the interior uncontested. At the very least, he would get fouled, forcing Giannis to the line, a place he has been really struggling.

[HoopsNY]

No-one on the Knicks individually can or would guard him. They'd probably employ the same tactics the Raptors did in 2019, build a wall and use a laterally quick defender out front ( Kawhi). Which, in the scenario being discussed here, means walling off the rim with Ewing, Oakley, Charles Smith,Mason and then using someone like Derek Harper or Gerald Wilkins as the on-ball defender for Giannis. How successful that would be, I can't say, but that's likely the defense that would be used.

Which is precisely what these children don't understand. Basketball is a team sport. It requires strategy. This ain't pick up ball in someone's backyard or the park.

[RogueBorg]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

Who's Jordan and Pippen then?

[Johnny32]

why can't you sorry ass "new" schoolers that just hoist 3's all day accept the fact you're inferior?

they put the rules back to similar what they were and harden, the best player in the league by some accounts, fell off the face of the earth. Damian do I even need to mention? They went to the olympics and immediately lost multiple games, you suck.

lol not everyone who can see today's players are more talented top to bottom than years past are new school. we just have good lives now and aren't stuck reliving the glory days.

[Baller789]

lol not everyone who can see today's players are more talented top to bottom than years past are new school. we just have good lives now and aren't stuck reliving the glory days.

You will also grow old kid.
Probably worst than most of us based on your attitude.

[Wally450]

https://www.bestplaces.net/images/city/Middletown_NY.gif

He did it twice in the same post too. :lol

[TheGoatest]

The relevant years are 1991-94. Starks shot 43%. 43% is right on par with a lot of SGs, just look at the 2000s where guys like Iverson, Carter, Allen, T-Mac, etc, amongst others shot the ball at that rate.

Those players were all the unquestionably the #1 options for their teams. Starks wasn't even starting for the Knicks some of those seasons, let alone been the main focus of the opponents' defense to make his shooting percentage suffer.
The only reason Starks is remembered is his underdog back story, further amplified by the fact that he played for the New York Knicks, whose fans always generate more hype for any player who plays even remotely decent for their team than any other team in the league. I mean, it's laughable that Patrick Ewing vs David Robinson is sometimes being debated. If Ewing played on any other team, this subject would never even get brought up.

[expansionera]

Nobody wants to admit Stockton would get the **** torched out of him by guys like Darius Garland/Dejounte Murray. Strong chance he’s more of a Rubio with less defense/rebounding and just size in today’s league, it’s amazing Utah was Jordan’s toughest competition by a mile and they’d be a playin team today.

[Ne 1]

Yea they're definitely a better duo, but the Knicks weren't just Ewing and Starks. They had guys like Mason, Oakley, X-Man, Harper, and were coached by legendary Pat Riley.

The Knicks were a great opponent because they were a great TEAM.

So the team had roles. Starks was the definition of a streaky scorer and only made the NBA because of the influx of expansion teams lol Mason, Oakley and X-man were trash on offense! What about the team made them a true champion contender? Only Ewing and Riley!

[Ne 1]

No-one on the Knicks individually can or would guard him. They'd probably employ the same tactics the Raptors did in 2019, build a wall and use a laterally quick defender out front ( Kawhi). Which, in the scenario being discussed here, means walling off the rim with Ewing, Oakley, Charles Smith,Mason and then using someone like Derek Harper or Gerald Wilkins as the on-ball defender for Giannis. How successful that would be, I can't say, but that's likely the defense that would be used.

Well that's the thing. What the Raptors did against in 2019 him would have been an illegal defense in the 90's. So the Knicks would not have been able to use that same strategy because it was outlawed by the NBA back then.

[Bronbron23]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

Another nonsensical take from yall idiots. The knicks weren't tough because of the knicks/starks duo. They were tough because of how physical they played defensively. Ewing, oaks, mason, x-man and wilkins were big strong physical dudes. Even jackson, starks and Anthony were tough gritty gaurds.

I swear some of yall don't know shit about the game:facepalm

[Phoenix]

Well that's the thing. What the Raptors did against in 2019 him would have been an illegal defense in the 90's. So the Knicks would not have been able to use that same strategy because it was outlawed by the NBA back then.

Well let's take the conversation to what defense they used on MJ back then. Make him a jumpshooter( something Giannis certainly cant be classified as) and if he gets into the lane, make him feel it. The strength of the Knicks D was the amount of frontline bodies they could throw at you while having pesky defensive guards out on the perimeter challenging the ball handler. Guys like Starks, Gerald Wilkins, Derek Harper, Greg Anthony were all in your shorts tough defensive guards. The Knicks would likely employ switch defenders on Giannis, a little Anthony Mason, a little Wilkins,maybe some X-man.

In theory yes, Giannis and Middleton are a better duo but the team defense of that Knicks squad was kind of like those Bad Boy Pistons, everyone was made accountable on D. Giannis would get his numbers but he'd have to work for it, which is all any great defense usually does,past or present.

[Ne 1]

Another nonsensical take from yall idiots. The knicks weren't tough because of the knicks/starks duo. They were tough because of how physical they played defensively. Ewing, oaks, mason, x-man and wilkins were big strong physical dudes. Even jackson, starks and Anthony were tough gritty gaurds.

I swear some of yall don't know shit about the game:facepalm

I’ve done everything involved with basketball bruh. But I'm glad someone brought up the 2019 Raptors! Because what the Raptors did on defense was illegal in the 90's! In the 80's and 90's the NBA individualized the sport! That's why the Knicks could have 2 options on the court and 3 dues who can't even hit an elbow jumper! How the Bulls could run heavy minutes with Rodman and Luc Longley on the floor etc.

In today's game they couldn't do that but back then it was an iso league! Game plan was get the ball up court, pass the ball to your score and let him iso!

The NBA got rid of that stuff when you had Allen Iverson, Stephone Marbury, Steve Francis Kobe, Carter etc come into the league and they would iso all game and wouldn't pass the ball unless they had to!

But back then it was an iso game! The team game aspect of basketball didn't really come into effect until they took away those illegal defense rules.

[ralph_i_el]

I didn't say all of them at once! I said all them individually. No one on the knocks the front court got anything for break! They either too slow in or too small!

Face it, that Knicks team’s #2 guy was John Starks he shot 39% from the floor, if there was an NBA team whose second option shot 39% from the floor they were blasted by 40 today!

And are you seriously going to sit up here and say Anthony Mason or Charles Smith can guard The Greek freak?

There was no Greek freak in the '90s. Let's stop that now! They never had to guard anyone with that type of length and athleticism!

But from watching the film with those two do you honestly think they can guard The Greek freak?

All of these guys played against David Robinson, who is definitely on that level of length and athleticism.

[iamgine]

Middleton's not that good. He's around Starks level.

Bucks supporting cast are pretty similar in level to the Knicks, except Giannis is much better than Ewing.

[Phoenix]

I’ve done everything involved with basketball bruh. But I'm glad someone brought up the 2019 Raptors! Because what the Raptors did on defense was illegal in the 90's! In the 80's and 90's the NBA individualized the sport! That's why the Knicks could have 2 options on the court and 3 dues who can't even hit an elbow jumper! How the Bulls could run heavy minutes with Rodman and Luc Longley on the floor etc.

In today's game they couldn't do that but back then it was an iso league! Game plan was get the ball up court, pass the ball to your score and let him iso!

The NBA got rid of that stuff when you had Allen Iverson, Stephone Marbury, Steve Francis Kobe, Carter etc come into the league and they would iso all game and wouldn't pass the ball unless they had to!

But back then it was an iso game! The team game aspect of basketball didn't really come into effect until they took away those illegal defense rules.

So whose rules are we playing with? Are you throwing Giannis back into 90's, or dragging the Knicks into 2021? In both situations, they're products of their era and all these 'hypotheticals' always fail to take that account.

[John_Connor]

Giannis and Middletown are by FAR a better duo then Ewing and Starks :lol. And it's not even close! But y'all wanna talk about tough competition?

Imagine thinking John freaking Starks is better then Middletown. :oldlol:

guys today are more talented but the game is softer and guys don't take it seriously. they're friends with the opposing players. the regular season isn't even exciting anymore. guys skip back to backs. they have DNPs for "rest". the freedom of movement era just got exposed and half the leagues stars are now irrelevant. hard fouls 20 and 30 years ago are now flagrant 2 ejections. and bigs like giannis can dribble freely on the perimeter without worrying about a defender hand checking them or bodying them up.

so to just sum up today's more all around players as better competition is just retarded

jordan got beat up and went through way more competition on the way to the finals than some guys today have to face. like lebron for the 2010s going to the finals every year without even having to beat more than 1 team with 50+ wins. and sometimes none to get to the finals. while Kobe and Mike both had to beat 3 sometimes to get there.


giannis placed in the 90s wouldn't be nearly as good cause he has no post game or back to the basket moves. Ewing was way more talented. and as for starks and Middleton. who cares about either. next

[Airupthere]

So whose rules are we playing with? Are you throwing Giannis back into 90's, or dragging the Knicks into 2021? In both situations, they're products of their era and all these 'hypotheticals' always fail to take that account.

Lol, it's like comparing a high school student nowadays to a post-grad student decades back. Students generally know more today but that doesn't mean they're smarter and that current learning materials could not be possibly learned by the students of the past.

Players today just play different. Rules are different, gameplay is different. If jerry west grew up a playing basketball nowadays, his handles, shooting form, overall play would be different.

[Phoenix]

Lol, it's like comparing a high school student nowadays to a post-grad student decades back. Students generally know more today but that doesn't mean they're smarter and that current learning materials could not be possibly learned by the students of the past.

Players today just play different. Rules are different, gameplay is different. If jerry west grew up a playing basketball nowadays, his handles, shooting form, overall play would be different.

Bingo. And if you throw Steph Curry into 1960 his skillset will reflect that era, not the next 50 years of basketball up till 2010. For one thing the 3 point line wasn't a thing in the 60s, so that's already a major part of Steph's game which is dramatically different if you throw him back 50 years. Giannis himself wouldn't be the same player if he was coming up in the 90's. He wouldn't be the 'position-less' bigman you see today.

[3ba11]

LeROFL.


Mo Williams vs 09' Magic..... 18.3 on 50.5 TS%

Pippen vs 96' Knicks............. 15.6 on 41.6 TS%

Pippen vs 92' Knicks..............16.0 on 49.3 TS


Despite being reduced to spot-up shooter, Mo still managed 4 apg compared to Pippen's 5 in both series

Also, Giannis < Shaq all-time, while Middleton < Penny

[Johnny32]

Mo Williams vs 09' Magic..... 18.3 on 50.5 TS%

Pippen vs 96' Knicks............. 15.6 on 41.6 TS%

Pippen vs 92' Knicks..............16.0 on 49.3 TS


Despite being reduced to spot-up shooter, Mo still managed 4 apg compared to Pippen's 5 in both series

lol wtf does this have to do with middleton vs starks?

[3ba11]

lol wtf does this have to do with middleton vs starks?


OP says that Ewing was weak comp, but he's better than Dwight, who Lebron lost to with more help than MJ had vs Ewing

Also, Giannis < Shaq all-time, while Middleton < Penny

[RRR3]

OP says that Ewing was weak comp, but he's better than Dwight, who Lebron lost to with more help than MJ had vs Ewing

Also, Giannis < Shaq all-time, while Middleton < Penny
https://i.ibb.co/VxTpWMg/Screen-Shot-2021-11-01-at-10-25-58-AM.png

[fsvr54]

Are you under the impression that people thought Starks was a real star?

He played till deep into his 30s and I bet he was a full time starter 4-5 seasons.

New yorkers thought he was. I know a lot of New Yorkers

[tpols]

This is a really poor thread. Styles make fights and the way the Knicks played defense is like a rock to Giannis scissors. OP is actually clowning the defensive ability of Pat ****ing Ewing, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, X-man, and Pat Riley coached Knicks. Where the paint was basically murderers row and Giannis wouldn't be able to play bully ball at all... and with no driving lanes to speak of ~ super packed paint. He would get absolutely punked.

A gimpy Kawhi and fat old marc gasol back door swept MVP Giannis just two years ago. Jimmy butler and Bam embarrased him the next year. But you think the 90s Knicks would have a problem with a guy whose only skill is trying to run people over?

:oldlol:

Acting like Hakeem and Clyde or Shaq and Penny didn't exist whose combo totally shits on Giannis / Middleton and the Knicks were a single shot away from a championship. Giannis beat Devin Booker, Ewing had to contend with ****ing Hakeem and MJ and many others.

This thread is an embarrassment to basketball knowledge.

[Johnny32]

OP says that Ewing was weak comp, but he's better than Dwight, who Lebron lost to with more help than MJ had vs Ewing

Also, Giannis < Shaq all-time, while Middleton < Penny

the bulls had the knicks beat without mj until the lg stepped in. everyone knows it.

[Johnny32]

1993 ecf

mj - 32, 6, 7 on 40% chucking
pip - 23, 7, 4 on 51%

2009 ecf

lbj - 39, 8, 8 on 49%
mo - 18, 4, 4 on 37% chucking

imagine 93 mj and 09 mo. they get swept by both opponents lol.

[3ba11]

the bulls had the knicks beat without mj until the lg stepped in. everyone knows it.


Enlarge gif to see an obvious hack


https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif


Here's what Pippen did right BEFORE the dumb foul on Hubert Davis - he passes up a huge clearout and gives it to BJ for a rushed shot:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/_p33FZ.gif



Phil was pissed at Pippen after that - he already knew that Pippen couldn't be trusted when it mattered and that he should've gone with Kukoc again:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/8uUPI_.gif


So Pippen choked many times - the "sit out" game, the "dumb foul" game, and Game 7, plus a lot of other little chokes in between

[SATAN]

why can't you sorry ass "new" schoolers that just hoist 3's all day accept the fact you're inferior?

they put the rules back to similar what they were and harden, the best player in the league by some accounts

:facepalm

[BigShotBob]

Lebron has never faced a prime Giannis/Bucks in a playoff series

[SATAN]

Another nonsensical take from yall idiots. The knicks weren't tough because of the knicks/starks duo. They were tough because of how physical they played defensively. Ewing, oaks, mason, x-man and wilkins were big strong physical dudes. Even jackson, starks and Anthony were tough gritty gaurds.

I swear some of yall don't know shit about the game:facepalm

You are literally a casual. You have demonstrated that time and time again. Shut the **** up.

[Baller789]

You are literally a casual. You have demonstrated that time and time again. Shut the **** up.

Meltdown.

[HoopsNY]

Nobody wants to admit Stockton would get the **** torched out of him by guys like Darius Garland/Dejounte Murray. Strong chance he’s more of a Rubio with less defense/rebounding and just size in today’s league, it’s amazing Utah was Jordan’s toughest competition by a mile and they’d be a playin team today.

Stockton won All-Defensive honors in a league that had KJ, Hardaway, Payton, Kidd, Marbury, Magic, Strickland, Isiah, Iverson, Penny, etc; and most of those PGs were out west. Yet you think Murray and Garland would torch him? You're funny.

[HoopsNY]

This is a really poor thread. Styles make fights and the way the Knicks played defense is like a rock to Giannis scissors. OP is actually clowning the defensive ability of Pat ****ing Ewing, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, X-man, and Pat Riley coached Knicks. Where the paint was basically murderers row and Giannis wouldn't be able to play bully ball at all... and with no driving lanes to speak of ~ super packed paint. He would get absolutely punked.

A gimpy Kawhi and fat old marc gasol back door swept MVP Giannis just two years ago. Jimmy butler and Bam embarrased him the next year. But you think the 90s Knicks would have a problem with a guy whose only skill is trying to run people over?

:oldlol:

Acting like Hakeem and Clyde or Shaq and Penny didn't exist whose combo totally shits on Giannis / Middleton and the Knicks were a single shot away from a championship. Giannis beat Devin Booker, Ewing had to contend with ****ing Hakeem and MJ and many others.

This thread is an embarrassment to basketball knowledge.

Bingo; these children want to act like the Knicks defense didn't stand a chance yet Marc Gasol was shutting down Giannis. You literally can't make this stuff up.

[Ne 1]

So whose rules are we playing with? Are you throwing Giannis back into 90's, or dragging the Knicks into 2021? In both situations, they're products of their era and all these 'hypotheticals' always fail to take that account.

If you dropped the the Greek Freak in the 90's and asked Anthony Mason, Ewing or any player on the Knicks team to guard him, he would average 50 ppg.

If you took that knicks team and brought them in today, they would barely score because they couldn't shoot! For any team to beat a matchup zone you have to be able to knock down 3's. That Knicks team had no shooters!

You also have to have long, athletic defenders you can deal with high pick and roll and also rotate out to shooters which the Knicks did not!

Those Knicks were a typical 90's team who had a like 2 scores, and a whole lot of players who basically just filled roster . And yes, even an enforcer like Oakley is just filling a roster spot.

[HoopsNY]

If you dropped the the Greek Freak in the 90's and asked Anthony Mason, Ewing or any player on the Knicks team to guard him, he would average 50 ppg.

If you took that knicks team and brought them in today, they would barely score because they couldn't shoot! For any team to beat a matchup zone you have to be able to knock down 3's. That Knicks team had no shooters!

You also have to have long, athletic defenders you can deal with high pick and roll and also rotate out to shooters which the Knicks did not!

Theirs Knicks we're typical 90's team who had a like 2 scores, and a whole lot of players who basically just filled roster . And yes, even an enforcer like Oakley is just filling a roster spot.

Like Marc Gasol :roll:

[Ne 1]

All of these guys played against David Robinson, who is definitely on that level of length and athleticism.

David Robinson was. But he was not as skilled!David Robinson was not taking dudes off the dribble from 3 with a euro step then a dunk! The difference between guarding someone with their back to the basket and guarding someone in triple threat is night and day!

Any weak dude at your local gym can guard someone with their back to the basket as long as they're strong and tall enough. That's why back then if you actually looked at the rosters most of those big dude were trash, they were just tall!

Gaurding height and athleticism off the dribble in space is a whole nother ball game!

[HoopsNY]

Fun fact, Robinson averaged 22.6 PPG between 1991-94 against NY, though he shot 54%. I laugh that Giannis is more skilled than Robinson was, this just isn't true. Yet somehow, Giannis would be some unstoppable force against NY.

[ralph_i_el]

David Robinson was. But he was not as skilled!David Robinson was not taking dudes off the dribble from 3 with a euro step then a dunk! The difference between guarding someone with their back to the basket and guarding someone in triple threat is night and day!

Any weak dude at your local gym can guard someone with their back to the basket as long as they're strong and tall enough. That's why back then if you actually looked at the rosters most of those big dude were trash, they were just tall!

Gaurding height and athleticism off the dribble in space is a whole nother ball game!

Lol.

David Robinson at his peak was as skilled or moreso. If you dropped him in 2021 with a bunch of shooters around him he'd be doing more of what Giannis does, and less back-to-basket stuff. It was just less effective the way the game was played and reffed back then. You can go catch some full games of these guys on YouTube and see for yourself. I watched a lot of 90's and early 2000's games online at the start of the pandemic it's very easy to see how the game has changed.

[Reggie43]

Anthony Mason in his heyday was legit guarding positions 2-5 and was doing a decent job at it. He was that guy who could switch on guards in the perimeter then defend bigmen inside.

Nobody is stopping superstars but if you could limit them to their normal averages while making them less efficient and make them earn their points then the defense has done its job which those Knicks are capable of doing to Giannis given his history and skillset.

Saw a few vids on Mase guarding a few perimeter guys some of you might know ....


https://youtu.be/JwzQEqdV9ts


https://youtu.be/7L2_Yp09-As


https://youtu.be/t_5SavQCnFc

[HoopsNY]

Fun fact...Shaq averaged 24.7 PPG on 49.7% FGs between 1992-93 and 1993-94. Children need to do their homework. #BringBackHomeworkInSchools

[HoopsNY]

Anthony Mason in his heyday was legit guarding positions 2-5 and was doing a decent job at it. He was that guy who could switch on guards in the perimeter then defend bigmen inside.

Nobody is stopping superstars but if you could limit them to their normal averages while making them less efficient and make them earn their points then the defense has done its job which those Knicks are capable of doing to Giannis given his history and skillset.

Saw a few vids on Mase guarding a few perimeter guys some of you might know ....


https://youtu.be/JwzQEqdV9ts


https://youtu.be/7L2_Yp09-As


https://youtu.be/t_5SavQCnFc

You're speaking logically here. Children aren't logical thinkers at age 5.

[HoopsNY]

You're speaking logically here. Children aren't logical thinkers at age 5.

Miami held Giannis to 22.5 PPG in the last two playoff matchups. Gasol and co. held Giannis to 22.6 PPG. Giannis puts up 18-19 PPG on 45% against the Knicks.

[Baller789]

David Robinson was. But he was not as skilled!David Robinson was not taking dudes off the dribble from 3 with a euro step then a dunk! The difference between guarding someone with their back to the basket and guarding someone in triple threat is night and day!

Any weak dude at your local gym can guard someone with their back to the basket as long as they're strong and tall enough. That's why back then if you actually looked at the rosters most of those big dude were trash, they were just tall!

Gaurding height and athleticism off the dribble in space is a whole nother ball game!

https://i.ibb.co/6nhjswz/images-2.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
Ne1 be like (https://poetandpoem.com/Stephen-C-Foster/My-Old-Kentucky-Home-Good-Night)

[Johnny32]

Miami held Giannis to 22.5 PPG in the last two playoff matchups. Gasol and co. held Giannis to 22.6 PPG. Giannis puts up 18-19 PPG on 45% against the Knicks.

lol playing defense that was illegal in duh dino era.

[Baller789]

lol playing defense that was illegal in duh dino era.
https://i.ibb.co/cYn5MFf/images-3.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Johnny32]

https://youtu.be/pvD3DlzusBI?t=1

if you think that is similar to what giannis does on the court you should head over to the wnba board. first highlight he needs 4 dribbles and multiple moves to beat mutombo off the dribble. second highlight he barely gets around 350 lb fatass oliver miller and the finish was laughable. in the 90s drob was the most athletic 7 footer in the gm but this isn't the 90s.

[ralph_i_el]

Brazil guarded him physical and packed the paint in the 2019 world cup and pretty much shut him down. I don't think this would work as well against him now, as his post jumper is much improved. When they let defenders body up more, and call violations against ballhandlers, big men don't just get to face up like Giannis has in the NBA.

https://youtu.be/_YDqDhmEYMQ

[ralph_i_el]

https://youtu.be/pvD3DlzusBI?t=1

if you think that is similar to what giannis does on the court you should head over to the wnba board. first highlight he needs 4 dribbles and multiple moves to beat mutombo off the dribble. second highlight he barely gets around 350 lb fatass oliver miller and the finish was laughable. in the 90s drob was the most athletic 7 footer in the gm but this isn't the 90s.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder.jpg

[Johnny32]

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder.jpg

what are you not understanding? people want to act like dude can face up and beat guys off the dribble in today's gm when he's struggling to get around clumsy centers in the 90s that don't exist now. and his finishing ability when creating off the dribble is lightyears behind giannis. the only resemblance is full court steals and dunks but giannis still does that better. he can cover the full court in 3 dribbles, drob needs 4. sry if the truth hurts your feelings.

[Airupthere]

Brazil guarded him physical and packed the paint in the 2019 world cup and pretty much shut him down. I don't think this would work as well against him now, as his post jumper is much improved. When they let defenders body up more, and call violations against ballhandlers, big men don't just get to face up like Giannis has in the NBA.

https://youtu.be/_YDqDhmEYMQ

Lol so none NBA players were able to shutdown Giannis? Giannis has a good 6" or so over his defender. Im sure the plumber 90s players wont be able to do anything. They'll just freeze up and say that modern basketball players look like they're from another planet. The strides we've had as human beings, the potential has clearly surpassed people from the ancient 90s.

[Baller789]

what are you not understanding? people want to act like dude can face up and beat guys off the dribble in today's gm when he's struggling to get around clumsy centers in the 90s that don't exist now. and his finishing ability when creating off the dribble is lightyears behind giannis. the only resemblance is full court steals and dunks but giannis still does that better. he can cover the full court in 3 dribbles, drob needs 4. sry if the truth hurts your feelings.


Lol so none NBA players were able to shutdown Giannis? Giannis has a good 6" or so over his defender. Im sure the plumber 90s players wont be able to do anything. They'll just freeze up and say that modern basketball players look like they're from another planet. The strides we've had as human beings, the potential has clearly surpassed people from the ancient 90s.
https://i.ibb.co/k65CRcG/images-5.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
photo (https://imgbb.com/)

[Ne 1]

Lol.

David Robinson at his peak was as skilled or moreso. If you dropped him in 2021 with a bunch of shooters around him he'd be doing more of what Giannis does, and less back-to-basket stuff. It was just less effective the way the game was played and reffed back then. You can go catch some full games of these guys on YouTube and see for yourself. I watched a lot of 90's and early 2000's games online at the start of the pandemic it's very easy to see how the game has changed.

There is absolutely no benefit to basketball with playing with your back to the basket! The only time you do that is when you're either bigger or less skilled!

If you go to a local 24 hour fitness the weak dudes do what play with their back to the basket because it helps protect the basketball. The skill guys face you up because it's easier to take you off the dribble you're faster getting to the rim you can shoot the basketball you can see the entire court etc.

The reason the players play with their back to the basket was because they weren't skilled enough not to!

I used to train professional basketball players and helped start an au organization! I studied the 80s and 90s’ I've seen countless other games, I know how they played and I know how the game was reffed! What you're saying from a basketball perspective does not make sense!

And I hate when people use stats and access from different areas against different competition. Those stats and actors don't mean anything because they didn't play the same people under the same rules! If you gave the Greek freak a legal defense he probably average 60 because he is too skilled athletic and long to be guarded one on one. Once he gets ahead of steam going to the paint you're not going to stop him! The only way to stop him is to bring over another defender from help side or the wall him off. With all of that was illegal in the '90s.

[iamgine]

There is absolutely no benefit to basketball with playing with your back to the basket! The only time you do that is when you're either bigger or less skilled!

If you go to a local 24 hour fitness the weak dudes do what play with their back to the basket because it helps protect the basketball. The skill guys face you up because it's easier to take you off the dribble you're faster getting to the rim you can shoot the basketball you can see the entire court etc.

The reason the players play with their back to the basket was because they weren't skilled enough not to!

I used to train professional basketball players and helped start an au organization! I studied the 80s and 90s’ I've seen countless other games, I know how they played and I know how the game was reffed! What you're saying from a basketball perspective does not make sense!

And I hate when people use stats and access from different areas against different competition. Those stats and actors don't mean anything because they didn't play the same people under the same rules! If you gave the Greek freak a legal defense he probably average 60 because he is too skilled athletic and long to be guarded one on one. Once he gets ahead of steam going to the paint you're not going to stop him! The only way to stop him is to bring over another defender from help side or the wall him off. With all of that was illegal in the '90s.
Uh no. That's like saying JJ Reddick shoot 3s because he's not good enough to drive.

Shooting 3s and back to basket is used by weak guys but also by skilled guys. There are people who are really skilled at back to basket game.

[Ne 1]

Anthony Mason in his heyday was legit guarding positions 2-5 and was doing a decent job at it. He was that guy who could switch on guards in the perimeter then defend bigmen inside.

Nobody is stopping superstars but if you could limit them to their normal averages while making them less efficient and make them earn their points then the defense has done its job which those Knicks are capable of doing to Giannis given his history and skillset.

Saw a few vids on Mase guarding a few perimeter guys some of you might know ....


https://youtu.be/JwzQEqdV9ts


https://youtu.be/7L2_Yp09-As


https://youtu.be/t_5SavQCnFc

Did you post those videos to prove a point? Him paying bad defense against 2 6'6 gaurds. And think that means something against someone 7'0 with a 7'3 wingspan

[Reggie43]

Did you post those videos to prove a point? Him paying bad defense against 2 6'6 gaurds. And think that means something against someone 7'0 with a 7'3 wingspan

Yeah he was so bad at it that the league put him in an all defensive team lol. Would you believe he also guarded Olajuwon in the Finals who was listed at 7'0 with a 7'6" wingspan?


Now he's with the New York Knicks, a sculpted, intense, 6-foot-7, 250-pound forward, and people are saying he has been a factor defensively in the NBA Finals, somehow helping clamp Houston Rockets center Hakeem Olajuwon, the league's Most Valuable Player.

Could that be? Could Mason be the reason Olajuwon was a combined 2-for-12 in the fourth quarters of the first three games of the best-of-seven series that continued last night at Madison Square Garden with the teams deadlocked at two victories apiece? And if he was that effective, how was he doing it?


"My personal secret," Mason replied. "I'm just trying to take him out of his comfort zone. That's the best I can tell you."

[Ne 1]

Yeah he was so bad at it that the league put him in an all defensive team lol. Would you believe he also guarded Olajuwon in the Finals who was listed at 7'0 with a 7'6" wingspan?

You keep bringing up accolades! Back then accolades were merely popularity things! You made some flashy plays that hit the Sports Center top 10 and you would be on a all defensive team because most the voters could only vote on stats and highlights! That's why a dud like Stockton was considered a good defender, cause he got a lot of steals. Curry lead the league in steals and in today's game is considered a mediocre defender

Dude! Hakeem is not taking stepping out to the 3 point line! He was 6'10 bruh.Not sure where you got your your measurements from. But even so, Hakeem wasn’t as athletic as the Greek Freak and he not taking dudes off the dribble 25 feet from the basket!

And what did I say in my previous post? Back then all you needed is height and strength. Sure, Mason was strong.

You guys keep comparing players that are nothing like the Greek, seriously do you guys even watch basketball? All you saw was a stat sheet and awards. Rodman was a great post defender! He not stopping a dude 25 ft from the basket taking him off the dribble. It's two completely different things!

Next I'm gonna hear about how Mason stopped Shaq and because he did that he would lock up Curry. Smh!

[Phoenix]

If you dropped the the Greek Freak in the 90's and asked Anthony Mason, Ewing or any player on the Knicks team to guard him, he would average 50 ppg.



Oh you mean like Hakeem, or David Robinson? Both more skilled and gifted offensive players. You're an idiot, but I understand that you're laughing away, nearly choking on your own bile, typing bullshit like this. But, ISH prides itself on shit takes such as this, so carry on.

[Phoenix]

David Robinson was. But he was not as skilled!David Robinson was not taking dudes off the dribble from 3 with a euro step then a dunk! The difference between guarding someone with their back to the basket and guarding someone in triple threat is night and day!



Oh my sweet summer child.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvD3DlzusBI

Congrats, you made a zero-effort thread that gained traction on ISH and therefore feel like you achieved something this week. Now hush, child.

[Johnny32]

Oh my sweet summer child.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvD3DlzusBI

Congrats, you made a zero-effort thread that gained traction on ISH and therefore feel like you achieved something this week. Now hush, child.

lol if you think he's as skilled as giannis facing up you're embarrassingly delusional.

[HoopsNY]

Yeah he was so bad at it that the league put him in an all defensive team lol. Would you believe he also guarded Olajuwon in the Finals who was listed at 7'0 with a 7'6" wingspan?

You're talking to children here. Everything we're saying is flying over their heads.

[HoopsNY]

Oh my sweet summer child.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvD3DlzusBI

Congrats, you made a zero-effort thread that gained traction on ISH and therefore feel like you achieved something this week. Now hush, child.

The funny thing is, ample evidence has been given. You, Reggie, myself, and others have given statistics, parallel examples, analysis, video footage, and the retort is "no" cause "I said so."

If 34 year old Gasol and skinny as Siakam are holding down Giannis, then the early 90s Knicks defense does not have a problem. Even if one doesn't think the Knicks would do as good of a job, it's erroneous to imply that this is somehow unreasonable given the samples.

Miami with guys like Bam, Iguodala, etc shut down Giannis. They held him to 22 PPG on 45%. Yet somehow Giannis will dominate, whereas guys like Shaq and David Robinson didn't. Unreal.

[Johnny32]

The funny thing is, ample evidence has been given. You, Reggie, myself, and others have given statistics, parallel examples, analysis, video footage, and the retort is "no" cause "I said so."

If 34 year old Gasol and skinny as Siakam are holding down Giannis, then the early 90s Knicks defense does not have a problem. Even if one doesn't think the Knicks would do as good of a job, it's erroneous to imply that this is somehow unreasonable given the samples.

Miami with guys like Bam, Iguodala, etc shut down Giannis. They held him to 22 PPG on 45%. Yet somehow Giannis will dominate, whereas guys like Shaq and David Robinson didn't. Unreal.

hurrr, let's ignore that the defensive schemes those teams were using were illegal in the dino era, durrr.

[Johnny32]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/05/25/1605d68e-250c-4c01-b4fa-b99ac0e8879d/resize/670x377/7fb7d1f6b4a6a45cc5f71c60dc0fe39e/giannis-wall-2.png

let's pretend this was legal in duh 90s cuz muh childhood memories.

[Johnny32]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/05/25/95775f44-35ae-4bc1-b31d-41db245f0feb/resize/670x377/d07e166646604c9155af12fac9a8ec53/giannis-wall.png

hurrr, shut down by gasol, durrr

[Johnny32]

Giannis is still the best transition player in the league because of his long strides and ability to get to the rim with force and agility. However, in the halfcourt, he often struggles to generate quality shots against a set defense. The Heat has many bodies to throw at Giannis with Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo, Derrick Jones Jr., and Andre Iguodala all doing an admirable job of slowing down Giannis. The Heat does a great job of forming a wall against Giannis, therefore not allowing him the room to operate and get into the paint easily.

so the heat did the same thing tor did to giannis in the screenshots above. what a shocking development. i wonder if giannis could take mutombo off the dribble in the iso 90s...ROFL. These clowns are clueless.

[Ne 1]

The funny thing is, ample evidence has been given. You, Reggie, myself, and others have given statistics, parallel examples, analysis, video footage, and the retort is "no" cause "I said so."

If 34 year old Gasol and skinny as Siakam are holding down Giannis, then the early 90s Knicks defense does not have a problem. Even if one doesn't think the Knicks would do as good of a job, it's erroneous to imply that this is somehow unreasonable given the samples.

Miami with guys like Bam, Iguodala, etc shut down Giannis. They held him to 22 PPG on 45%. Yet somehow Giannis will dominate, whereas guys like Shaq and David Robinson didn't. Unreal.

You guys literally haven't give any evidence besides accolades/awards that somebody got in the 90s which doesn't translate to today! Someone showed video footage of him playing horrible defense against 2 6'6 guards then tried to bring up a low post player as another example!

None of you have said absolutely anything this entire conversation besides something a fan will say, not someone that actually understands basketball.

And Siakam and Marc Gasol are not holding down the Greek!

I can't even have this conversation anymore because you clearly don't understand how defenses operate how they're run! Not today and not back in the 1990s because every time you start saying something about defense it does not make sense and it does not work or does not happen!

What nobody will address is that they had a illegal defense rule in the 90s, when you have that rule you cannot stop a player like Greek Freak! I don't care when that current rules are now. If they reinstated the illegal defense rule today, Greek Freak will average 50 ppg! That's what you guys don't understand because you don't understand the X's and O's of defense or how to compare players.


And I have no idea why you're comparing Greek freak to Shaq and Robinson. They are both literally two completely different players. it's like comparing baseball or basketball!

[Ne 1]

Literally nothing that was legal in the 90s would stop Giannis. Please don’t bring up hand checking either because it ain't shit. It doesn't work on the perimeter! If you think it does that's because you're not in the gym playing against high level players. You cannot hand check a triple threat or someone who can dribble. I know you're going to think that you can even though I've taught D1 basketball players how to destroy handchecking you know better!

[Phoenix]

lol if you think he's as skilled as giannis facing up you're embarrassingly delusional.

Embarrassingly delusional is thinking that Giannis present some kind of offensive challenge unforseen in the 90's. David Robinson didn't have the same degree of face-up game that Giannis had( because that's not how bigs played 30 years ago), but you're on some good shit if you think he's overall more skilled than the Admiral was. The reality is Giannis more or less barrels his way to the rim. That's possible in an era with spaced out courts with ***** defensive rules, not packed in paints like the 90s. And if Giannis is limited from going to the rim, it's not like he has a pull-up game like KD to fall back on.

What's equally stupid( but I'm aware it's mostly kids I'm talking to here) is assuming that Giannis is even the same player in the 90s. All of these dumb ass threads simply pluck player X as they are and drop them into a different era. That's not how shit works, or else one can do the same and say take David Robinson, with modern medicine, training, with the same frame of reference someone like Giannis would have to mold his game and drop him in 2020. What does THAT look like?

[ralph_i_el]

Literally nothing that was legal in the 90s would stop Giannis. Please don’t bring up hand checking either because it ain't shit. It doesn't work on the perimeter! If you think it does that's because you're not in the gym playing against high level players. You cannot hand check a triple threat or someone who can dribble. I know you're going to think that you can even though I've taught D1 basketball players how to destroy handchecking you know better!

https://www.infometrics.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/I-dont-believe-you.png

[Charlie Sheen]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/05/25/1605d68e-250c-4c01-b4fa-b99ac0e8879d/resize/670x377/7fb7d1f6b4a6a45cc5f71c60dc0fe39e/giannis-wall-2.png

let's pretend this was legal in duh 90s cuz muh childhood memories.

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/05/25/95775f44-35ae-4bc1-b31d-41db245f0feb/resize/670x377/d07e166646604c9155af12fac9a8ec53/giannis-wall.png

hurrr, shut down by gasol, durrr

It would have been illegal to gather around Giannis if he didn't have the ball, but that's not the case in either example here.

[999Guy]

If Patrick Ewing played today he would get zero respect.

He would be a bigger punching bag than Gobert. Shooting like Marcus Smart against any decent playoff D.

[Ne 1]

It would have been illegal to gather around Giannis if he didn't have the ball, but that's not the case in either example here.

Right. In the ‘90s, it was illegal to double team the weak side post! It was illegal to pre rotate to the weak side! At certain times, you were not allowed to hedge a screen! It was completely illegal to shadow or play any kind of gimmick defense. Stay on the strong side defenses like we seen used against Greek Freak.The 2011 Mavs would have never been possible if those rules were still in place because their defensive scheme in the ‘90s would have been against the rules! It was illegal to double team someone without the ball!

[HoopsNY]

It would have been illegal to gather around Giannis if he didn't have the ball, but that's not the case in either example here.

Yep; I was going to say that illegal defense doesn't operate the way he's saying it did.

[HoopsNY]

Right. In the ‘90s, it was illegal to double team the weak side post! It was illegal to pre rotate to the weak side! At certain times, you were not allowed to hedge a screen! It was completely illegal to shadow or play any kind of gimmick defense. Stay on the strong side defenses like we seen used against Greek Freak.The 2011 Mavs would have never been possible if those rules were still in place because their defensive scheme in the ‘90s would have been against the rules! It was illegal to double team someone without the ball!

What are you talking about? You're talking about in a half court set where the defender meanders. This isn't the case in transition or when a team decides to double or triple-team. You're creating a scenario that didn't exist.

Even if we assume that you're correct, Giannis doesn't have the shooting skills or dribbling ability to evade defenders and score at will. He will almost always end up driving to the paint, and guess what, he'll have his s*** swatted or end up on the floor, putting him on the line to shoot his measly 68%.

[3ba11]

.
ESPN: Nearly half of Giannis' drives faced no help due to spacing


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


he could play center or PF as a post player in previous eras, but he wouldn't be as good penetrating as a ball-handler against the packed paints of previous eras (no teammates spacing the floor), where great shooting was required to shoot over defenses/packed paints, like the gifs below:


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination

[Gudo]

Is the issue here officiating or does the OP think that physically the past era won't be able to handle Giannis?

[Ne 1]

This is a really poor thread. Styles make fights and the way the Knicks played defense is like a rock to Giannis scissors. OP is actually clowning the defensive ability of Pat ****ing Ewing, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, X-man, and Pat Riley coached Knicks. Where the paint was basically murderers row and Giannis wouldn't be able to play bully ball at all... and with no driving lanes to speak of ~ super packed paint. He would get absolutely punked.

A gimpy Kawhi and fat old marc gasol back door swept MVP Giannis just two years ago. Jimmy butler and Bam embarrased him the next year. But you think the 90s Knicks would have a problem with a guy whose only skill is trying to run people over?

:oldlol:

Acting like Hakeem and Clyde or Shaq and Penny didn't exist whose combo totally shits on Giannis / Middleton and the Knicks were a single shot away from a championship. Giannis beat Devin Booker, Ewing had to contend with ****ing Hakeem and MJ and many others.

This thread is an embarrassment to basketball knowledge.

Oakley was 6'8 225. Giannis 6'11 240-250. He ain't stopping Giannis going down hill. Before you know it; the team would be in foul trouble and Oakley would be on the bench in foul trouble trying to keep up with a player like Giannis. Shaq has already said that Giannis was a better player than him. So I can almost guarantee you if you were to ask Shaq or anybody else who's a better player between Giannis and Patrick Ewing they're going to say Giannis. He's just all around better player and that's super obvious. As far as Middleton he's also a better all-around player than Starks. Real hoop heads know. Not someone that compares playground basketball or gym basketball to real organized sports I guarantee you ask anybody that's played at a collegiate level or professional level Are all of those things one in the same deal look at you like you're crazy It's nowhere near the same. So after someone makes a statement like that like I'm sure we've all played playground basketball gym basketball and try to compare it to a professional league and you lose all credibility from that standpoint.

[Johnny32]

Embarrassingly delusional is thinking that Giannis present some kind of offensive challenge unforseen in the 90's. David Robinson didn't have the same degree of face-up game that Giannis had( because that's not how bigs played 30 years ago)

i stopped reading here because it's clear to me you're completely clueless. facing up and beating slow footed dino centers is what robinson's offensive game was. he had average post moves at best. lol this is sad.

[Johnny32]

It would have been illegal to gather around Giannis if he didn't have the ball, but that's not the case in either example here.

wrong. you can't just defend space in the 90s it was an illegal defense. you had to double or guard your man.

[86Celtics]

They called illegal defence as often as they call James' stiff arming his way to the basket. Especially in the playoffs.

You wouldn't know that because you are a clown who doesn't know wtf he is talking about.

[Johnny32]

https://youtu.be/YM_eCnTNt1Q?t=21

[Johnny32]

hurrr, they never called it cuz muh memories, durrr

you're full of shit.

[Johnny32]

mike fratello breaking it down at 8:06 in the video above for those stuck in nostalgia land.

[Charlie Sheen]

https://youtu.be/YM_eCnTNt1Q?t=21

Did you even watch the video you posted? 2:36 of that video "If your man was beyond the 3-point line, you had to at least be above the free throw line"

[Johnny32]

"illegal defense called on the knicks for a second time"

hurrr, they never called it doe.

[Johnny32]

.
ESPN: Nearly half of Giannis' drives faced no help due to spacing


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


he could play center or PF as a post player in previous eras, but he wouldn't be as good penetrating as a ball-handler against the packed paints of previous eras (no teammates spacing the floor), where great shooting was required to shoot over defenses/packed paints, like the gifs below:


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination

the difference is lebron isn't a 6'4 198 lb midget. he's 6'8 3/4 and 260 lbs. he's finishing over, through, and around those bums in the paint with 6 inch verts.

[Phoenix]

i stopped reading here because it's clear to me you're completely clueless. facing up and beating slow footed dino centers is what robinson's offensive game was. he had average post moves at best. lol this is sad.

Or in other words, you have no further retort so you'll play the 'I stopped reading' schtick. You're a retard.

[Johnny32]

Or in other words, you have no further retort so you'll play the 'I stopped reading' schtick. You're a retard.

why are you still posting? you have no clue how drob played...you've made that painfully obvious. pretend elsewhere.

[Phoenix]

why are you still posting? you have no clue how drob played...you've made that painfully obvious. pretend elsewhere.

Why are you? You don't seem to have a clue about basketball in general. That's also painfully obvious.

[Johnny32]

https://youtu.be/RvnQyKuWhT4

this is drob's post up game in a nutshell.

[Johnny32]

lol clownboy thinks he played like a typical 90s big. lol so embarrassing.

[Phoenix]

lol fakkit above is referencing D-Robs post game as if I've said anything about it. lol so embarrassing

[Johnny32]

Embarrassingly delusional is thinking that Giannis present some kind of offensive challenge unforseen in the 90's. David Robinson didn't have the same degree of face-up game that Giannis had( because that's not how bigs played 30 years ago)

hurrr, and that's exactly what she's suggesting in this embarrassing post.

[Phoenix]

hurrr, and that's exactly what she's suggesting in this embarrassing post.

There's no inference whatsoever to his post game there. I said Robinson didn't have the same degree of face-up game, but was overall a more skilled player( that you failed to quote). There's no suggestion, mention, or reference to posting up and if you took it as such, it's because you're an inbred c*nt.

[Johnny32]

hurrr, that's not how bigs played back then, durrr

lol @ how desperate and pathetic this guy is.

[Phoenix]

hurr, that comment doesn't suggest or infer 'David Robinson had a great post game, durr.

lol@ this dumbass alt.

[Johnny32]

plz enlighten me how bigs played in the dino era, clownboy.

LeROFL.

[Charlie Sheen]

https://youtu.be/RvnQyKuWhT4

this is drob's post up game in a nutshell.

No it wasn't. Robinson wasn't Hakeem in the post, but he had more moves than a turnaround jumper. One of his most effective post moves was flashing across the paint with a sweeping hook. You're not interested in having an honest discussion though.

[Phoenix]

Plz enlighten me how Giannis plays downhill in an era with packed paint with no dependable jumper, inbreed.

LEROLF.

[Johnny32]

and of course there's also the fact that facing up and beating his man off the dribble is exactly how drob played. he wasn't a good post player. he did have a good midrange jumper made possible because of his ability to blow by you. lol i'm now done with this poser.

[Phoenix]

No it wasn't. Robinson wasn't Hakeem in the post, but he had more moves than a turnaround jumper. One of his most effective post moves was flashing across the paint with a sweeping hook. You're not interested in having an honest discussion though.

Nope. Some retard who says 'hurr durr' every other post.

[Phoenix]

and of course there's also the fact that facing up and beating his man off the dribble is exactly how drob played. he wasn't a good post player. he did have a good midrange jumper made possible because of his ability to blow by you. lol i'm now done with this poser.

Better than Giannis. Bye bitch.

[Johnny32]

No it wasn't. Robinson wasn't Hakeem in the post, but he had more moves than a turnaround jumper. One of his most effective post moves was flashing across the paint with a sweeping hook. You're not interested in having an honest discussion though.

he very rarely used the hook lol.

[Johnny32]

plz enlighten me how bigs played in the dino era, clownboy.

LeROFL.

*crickets

poor kid got shit on badly.

[Phoenix]

Plz enlighten me how Giannis plays downhill in an era with packed paint with no dependable jumper, inbreed.

LEROLF.

https://assets.petco.com/petco/image/upload/c_pad,dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,h_636,w_636/c_pad,h_636,w_636/2212357-center-1

poor inbreed taking Ls left and right.

[Johnny32]

*crickets

poor kid got shit on badly.

i mean like diarrhea down his throat shit on.

[Phoenix]

https://assets.petco.com/petco/image/upload/c_pad,dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,h_636,w_636/c_pad,h_636,w_636/2212357-center-1

poor inbreed taking Ls left and right.

i mean like diarrhea down his throat shit on.

[Johnny32]

imagine desperately refusing to explain what you meant in a previous post because you finally realized how badly i destroyed your dumb little argument. lol and that's exactly what happened here.

[Phoenix]

imagine desperately creating arguing points due to the complete absence of basic comprehension, and getting jizzed on by both Charlie Sheen and I with zero effort. lol and that's exactly what happened here. Probably a mod burner account.

[999Guy]

.
ESPN: Nearly half of Giannis' drives faced no help due to spacing


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


he could play center or PF as a post player in previous eras, but he wouldn't be as good penetrating as a ball-handler against the packed paints of previous eras (no teammates spacing the floor), where great shooting was required to shoot over defenses/packed paints, like the gifs below:


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination

***** LeBron doesn’t have floor space right now at 37 and he’s still doing fine.

Playing next to some of the worst shooters in the NBA in WB, AD, Howard, Jordan, THT, Rondo and Bazemore.

LeBron is ****ing LeBron, and Giannis is ****ing Giannis, they don’t need floor space. Role players and scrubs do.

[Johnny32]

imagine being so desperate all you have left is to copy me like a 2nd grader. this is even more embarrassing than her attempt to discuss basketball.

[Phoenix]

***** LeBron doesn’t have floor space right now at 37 and he’s still doing fine.

Playing next to some of the worst shooters in the NBA in WB, AD, Howard, Jordan, THT, Rondo and Bazemore.

LeBron is ****ing LeBron, and Giannis is ****ing Giannis, they don’t need floor space. Role players and scrubs do.

End of the day, all of the 'all-timers' are innately talented and would likely adjust to the demands of the era to be great. That's if you took guys from different periods and swapped them into other ones. That would be respecting both the legacy, present, and future of the game. Then you have the 'herp derp' airheads who aren't actually trying to have a discussion with simpleton 'this great player would suck today/30 years ago' shit-takes.

[Phoenix]

imagine being so desperate to keep going back and forth with a 'poser' despite apparently being done with 'her' half a page back. Even more embarrassing than its attempts to discuss basketball like someone older than 5.

[Johnny32]

plz enlighten me how bigs played in the dino era, clownboy.

LeROFL.

and this was the moment the light went on and the desperation began lol.

[Phoenix]

And this is the moment I remember that the more foolish is the one who follows the fool. Find someone else to play internet patty cake with, Inbreed32.

[Johnny32]

i wonder if he'll delete his account out of embarrassment.

[Reggie43]

So whats the deal here? Do some of you guys really think that Giannis playing in the 90s would be the leagues most unstoppable offensive player? Better than Olajuwon, Shaq, Jordan, Barkley, Robinson etc?

Giannis would still be good and Mvp caliber because of his all around skills, size and athleticism but I dont see how he seperates himself from most of the guys I mentioned offensively given his skillset.

[Ne 1]

What are you talking about? You're talking about in a half court set where the defender meanders. This isn't the case in transition or when a team decides to double or triple-team. You're creating a scenario that didn't exist.

Even if we assume that you're correct, Giannis doesn't have the shooting skills or dribbling ability to evade defenders and score at will. He will almost always end up driving to the paint, and guess what, he'll have his s*** swatted or end up on the floor, putting him on the line to shoot his measly 68%.
I literally studied that era! Players now are bigger, stronger and faster then in the past in any sport! If you think the Greek Freak who causes problems for teams today who have bigger stronger faster players and have more defensive opinions to game plan against him, doesn't present a different offensive challenge from any player in the 90's you trippin and I'm done with this conversation!

[Baller789]

I literally studied that era! Players now are bigger, stronger and faster then in the past in any sport! If you think the Greek Freak who causes problems for teams today who have bigger stronger faster players and have more defensive opinions to game plan against him, doesn't present a different offensive challenge from any player in the 90's you trippin and I'm done with this conversation!

Here we go with the bigger, faster, stonger BS again.

Doncic & Joker

/Thread

[HoopsNY]

So whats the deal here? Do some of you guys really think that Giannis playing in the 90s would be the leagues most unstoppable offensive player? Better than Olajuwon, Shaq, Jordan, Barkley, Robinson etc?

Giannis would still be good and Mvp caliber because of his all around skills, size and athleticism but I dont see how he seperates himself from most of the guys I mentioned offensively given his skillset.

Interesting you mentioned Barkley, whose game during his peak/prime was more relative to Giannis' than maybe even David Robinson. Lets take a look at the spread of players I mentioned against those early 90s Knicks defenses as opposed to their regular season numbers during that time, including Barkley.

Barkley vs NYK '91-'94: 22.4/10.0/3.3 on 45.5 FG% | 24.5/11.2/4.5 on 53.5 FG%

Robinson vs NYK '91-'94: 22.6/9.0/3.6 on 54.9 FG% | 25.6/11.9/3.4 on 52.6% FG%

Shaq vs NYK '91-'94: 24.7/13.3/2.7 on 49.7% | 26.4/13.4/2.1 on on 58.2% FG%

All of these guys saw a decline in scoring, while two of the three saw a significant decline in efficiency. There's literally no reason to think Giannis would somehow "dominate" the early 90s Knicks defense. And the excuse of "illegal" defense is a joke. Even if we assumed that, Giannis can blow buy Gerald Wilkins or X-Man, then miss an uncontested jumper.

[HoopsNY]

I literally studied that era! Players now are bigger, stronger and faster then in the past in any sport! If you think the Greek Freak who causes problems for teams today who have bigger stronger faster players and have more defensive opinions to game plan against him, doesn't present a different offensive challenge from any player in the 90's you trippin and I'm done with this conversation!

"Bigger, faster, stronger!" What are you, a Nick Wright parrot? The whole athleticism argument is a sham. Did a lack of athleticism stop guys like James Harden, Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Jokic, or Luka? This argument is pathetic.

[Baller789]

"Bigger, faster, stronger!" What are you, a Nick Wright parrot? The whole athleticism argument is a sham. Did a lack of athleticism stop guys like James Harden, Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Jokic, or Luka? This argument is pathetic.

But but humans in 20 years have evolved x-ray vision and wings!

[Gudo]

But but humans in 20 years have evolved x-ray vision and wings!

Humans today are indeed capable of doing things that no human can do in the past. Can't imagine how the 90s players can fly when there is no way that they can physiologically do that compared to how nba players of today do it with ease.

[theman93]

Humans today are indeed capable of doing things that no human can do in the past. Can't imagine how the 90s players can fly when there is no way that they can physiologically do that compared to how nba players of today do it with ease.

Wilt Chamberlain has the highest vertical of all time and played in the 60's. Why can't any NBA player today reach that? That was 6 decades ago btw.

[Ne 1]

.
ESPN: Nearly half of Giannis' drives faced no help due to spacing


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtOOQ43yw4&t=05m42s


he could play center or PF as a post player in previous eras, but he wouldn't be as good penetrating as a ball-handler against the packed paints of previous eras (no teammates spacing the floor), where great shooting was required to shoot over defenses/packed paints, like the gifs below:


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozo2gsUnmBUtTd6/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-17-2015/dzzsgE.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/bZE6Lj.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


Btw, this is the same reason Lebron wouldn't be nearly as good on previous eras (no teamnates spacing the floor to benefit his penetration/ball-domination

So nobody went to the basket but MJ huh? I'm just trying to understand how a man of his skill set couldn't get to the basket? A.I. is 6 foot nothing and got to the rim, the defense wasn't as tough as you guys say, just the ball rotation and eating the shot clock was big in my era. You ‘80s/‘90s hype men say guys were getting cracked every time. Which is not true. The footage does not lie. Now it was a tad bit more physical, yes. But the way that make it seem, like it was Sparta 300, no blood no foul prison ball is just not true at all. So many guys today would dominate that era.
https://youtu.be/zONvMKkIpwA

[ralph_i_el]

I literally studied that era! Players now are bigger, stronger and faster then in the past in any sport! If you think the Greek Freak who causes problems for teams today who have bigger stronger faster players and have more defensive opinions to game plan against him, doesn't present a different offensive challenge from any player in the 90's you trippin and I'm done with this conversation!

Giannis just won a ring against a team that had literally 1 big man that they actually wanted to play. They were playing nothing but wings at the 4 and Dario Saric was supposed to be their backup big. They were playing Frank Kaminsky in the end. BIGGER AND STRONGER lol. In some of those finals games Ayton was the only true big that the Suns put on the floor for the entire game. Giannis would face ZERO teams playing this small in previous eras.

P.S. Ayton was hardly allowed to touch Giannis. I respect what Giannis did in that series and how he had expanded his game, but lets not pretend he was facing physical defense by legit big man defenders.

[Ne 1]

Interesting you mentioned Barkley, whose game during his peak/prime was more relative to Giannis' than maybe even David Robinson. Lets take a look at the spread of players I mentioned against those early 90s Knicks defenses as opposed to their regular season numbers during that time, including Barkley.

Barkley vs NYK '91-'94: 22.4/10.0/3.3 on 45.5 FG% | 24.5/11.2/4.5 on 53.5 FG%

Robinson vs NYK '91-'94: 22.6/9.0/3.6 on 54.9 FG% | 25.6/11.9/3.4 on 52.6% FG%

Shaq vs NYK '91-'94: 24.7/13.3/2.7 on 49.7% | 26.4/13.4/2.1 on on 58.2% FG%

All of these guys saw a decline in scoring, while two of the three saw a significant decline in efficiency. There's literally no reason to think Giannis would somehow "dominate" the early 90s Knicks defense. And the excuse of "illegal" defense is a joke. Even if we assumed that, Giannis can blow buy Gerald Wilkins or X-Man, then miss an uncontested jumper.

All of what you said has absolutely nothing to do with the type of player that Giannis is or the type of player he still would be if you just placed him in the '90s, he'd still be dominant. There's still nobody who’s really suited to stop him. And defensively, he would be even better because y'all say hand-checking made so much of a difference, he would be allowed to do that at his size with his length, so he'd be even better so like I said and like even T-Mac has said, like Shaq has said, Giannis is a better player than they are. He's just not the same type of physical dominance Shaq was, but as far as a basketball player who's the better player, of course is the Greek Freak. He does more offensively and then defensively is not even close!

[HoopsNY]

Giannis just won a ring against a team that had literally 1 big man that they actually wanted to play. They were playing nothing but wings at the 4 and Dario Saric was supposed to be their backup big. They were playing Frank Kaminsky in the end. BIGGER AND STRONGER lol. In some of those finals games Ayton was the only true big that the Suns put on the floor for the entire game. Giannis would face ZERO teams playing this small in previous eras.

P.S. Ayton was hardly allowed to touch Giannis. I respect what Giannis did in that series and how he had expanded his game, but lets not pretend he was facing physical defense by legit big man defenders.

Great point; it was clear that Ayton wasn't allowed to play Giannis physically, which is another thing left out of this conversation that modern fans don't like to admit.

[HoopsNY]

All of what you said has absolutely nothing to do with the type of player that Giannis is or the type of player he still would be if you just placed him in the '90s, he'd still be dominant. There's still nobody who’s really suited to stop him. And defensively, he would be even better because y'all say hand-checking made so much of a difference, he would be allowed to do that at his size with his length, so he'd be even better so like I said and like even T-Mac has said, like Shaq has said, Giannis is a better player than they are. He's just not the same type of physical dominance Shaq was, but as far as a basketball player who's the better player, of course is the Greek Freak. He does more offensively and then defensively is not even close!

You're moving the goal posts. There is no one on this forum that thinks Giannis would be ineffective in another era. He most certainly would be. But trying to downplay the Knicks' ferocious defense in the early 90s isn't helping you here.

The fact remains is that Giannis would have some trouble with them, just as other elite players did. That's no shame on him. That's a credit to the Knicks' style of play, defensive schemes, and physicality.

[Airupthere]

Great point; it was clear that Ayton wasn't allowed to play Giannis physically, which is another thing left out of this conversation that modern fans don't like to admit.

I recall in the finals many instances where the slightest bump from Ayton was called a foul. There really is hardly any physicality in the current game.

[Ne 1]

You're moving the goal posts. There is no one on this forum that thinks Giannis would be ineffective in another era. He most certainly would be. But trying to downplay the Knicks' ferocious defense in the early 90s isn't helping you here.

The fact remains is that Giannis would have some trouble with them, just as other elite players did. That's no shame on him. That's a credit to the Knicks' style of play, defensive schemes, and physicality.

Moving the goal posts? Giannis is a better player and Shaq and T-Mac admits he’s better than they are. But when we talk Giannis vs Ewing; it's not even close. Heck, Charles Oakley said the other day that Ewing was good but not capable of making his teammates better. They just had one style of play because of the LACK OF TALENT on that team! That was his words. This post was literally about Giannis/Middleton vs Ewing/Starks and as I said, which I know. Giannis and Kris Middleton are far superior duo and are both clearly better players, not even close!

[Ne 1]

Greek Freak with his size, speed, ball handling, and dominance in transition would be just fine.The early ‘90s Knicks would have no answer for him! Larry Johnson was fine against those guys and he's not close to the player Giannis is, nor can he do the things Giannis could do. Giannis would've been perfectly fine.

[Johnny32]

Wilt Chamberlain has the highest vertical of all time and played in the 60's. Why can't any NBA player today reach that? That was 6 decades ago btw.

lol at his height that would mean his neck would be above the rim.

[Charlie Sheen]

Giannis just won a ring against a team that had literally 1 big man that they actually wanted to play. They were playing nothing but wings at the 4 and Dario Saric was supposed to be their backup big. They were playing Frank Kaminsky in the end. BIGGER AND STRONGER lol. In some of those finals games Ayton was the only true big that the Suns put on the floor for the entire game. Giannis would face ZERO teams playing this small in previous eras.

P.S. Ayton was hardly allowed to touch Giannis. I respect what Giannis did in that series and how he had expanded his game, but lets not pretend he was facing physical defense by legit big man defenders.

Good post. Made me curious what posters thought of a related question.

Does Giannis dominate the golden age of PF's where he'd be going up against some combination of a pau, sheed, dirk, timmy, kg, bosh, jermaine, amare and cwebb?

[ralph_i_el]

Good post. Made me curious what posters thought of a related question.

Does Giannis dominate the golden age of PF's where he'd be going up against some combination of a pau, sheed, dirk, timmy, kg, bosh, jermaine, amare and cwebb?

Now THAT is a good question. You can put his peak impact up against any of those guys at their best and make a good argument that he's better. Now it's about longevity and playoff performance.

I would love to see Giannis going up against KG. That would be insane.

[Reggie43]

You're moving the goal posts. There is no one on this forum that thinks Giannis would be ineffective in another era. He most certainly would be. But trying to downplay the Knicks' ferocious defense in the early 90s isn't helping you here.

The fact remains is that Giannis would have some trouble with them, just as other elite players did. That's no shame on him. That's a credit to the Knicks' style of play, defensive schemes, and physicality.

Exactly this.

[Ne 1]

Giannis just won a ring against a team that had literally 1 big man that they actually wanted to play. They were playing nothing but wings at the 4 and Dario Saric was supposed to be their backup big. They were playing Frank Kaminsky in the end. BIGGER AND STRONGER lol. In some of those finals games Ayton was the only true big that the Suns put on the floor for the entire game. Giannis would face ZERO teams playing this small in previous eras.

P.S. Ayton was hardly allowed to touch Giannis. I respect what Giannis did in that series and how he had expanded his game, but lets not pretend he was facing physical defense by legit big man defenders.

That’s because it's hard to play bigs now! Guess what? Ewing in this era couldn't be played half the time because he’s too slow footed to guard the 3 point line and can't hit jump shots to open the lane and space the floor.

Maybe you guys don't understand matchups on a basketball court. French Kaminsky is 7 ft tall and still shoots 35% and 3. I’ve studied the '90s bruh, you don't want me to start pulling up some of those trash bigs playing back then who could barely walk and dribble at the same time! Go look at the STARTING big men for Utah when they mad the finals! Or the STARTING big for the Bulls for their second 3 peat etc. Dudes like Robert Tractor Traylor and Oliver Miller started back then! :lol Manute Bol! His son Bobo is 7'3 and way more athletic, mobile and skilled than he was! He can do crossovers and shoot 3-pointers, play back to the basket, all of that. And he's a bench player that gets no time until garbage minutes. But his dad Manute who was a stick that could barely move and he started in the 90s!

Because of the rules in the 90s, the tallest player on the court was really valuable because you were FORCED to play one-on-one by the rules because of illegal defense. In today's game because you can bracket a tall player without compromising your defense, you lose a lot of your advantages in the paint compared to the 90s.

To give you perspective, Shawn Kemp was a superstar in the '90s before he got fat during the lockout seaon. He gave teams problems with Gary Payton. The Greek Freak is taller, longer, can shoot better, can dribble better plus has more moves in his repertoire than Kemp.

Greek Freak is literally a bigger, stronger, more athletic, more skilled and talented version of Shawn Kemp!

[Baller789]

That’s because it's hard to play bigs now! Guess what? Ewing in this era couldn't be played half the time because he’s too slow footed to guard the 3 point line and can't hit jump shots to open the lane and space the floor.

Maybe you guys don't understand matchups on a basketball court. French Kaminsky is 7 ft tall and still shoots 35% and 3. I’ve studied the '90s bruh, you don't want me to start pulling up some of those trash bigs playing back then who could barely walk and dribble at the same time! Go look at the STARTING big men for Utah when they mad the finals! Or the STARTING big for the Bulls for their second 3 peat etc. Dudes like Robert Tractor Traylor and Oliver Miller started back then! :lol Manute Bol! His son Bobo is 7'3 and way more athletic, mobile and skilled than he was! He can do crossovers and shoot 3-pointers, play back to the basket, all of that. And he's a bench player that gets no time until garbage minutes. But his dad Manute who was a stick that could barely move and he started in the 90s!

Because of the rules in the 90s, the tallest player on the court was really valuable because you were FORCED to play one-on-one by the rules because of illegal defense.a In today's game because you can bracket a tall player without compromising your defense being told you lose a lot of your advantages in the paint compared to the 90s.

To give you perspective, Shawn Kemp was a superstar in the '90s before he got fat during the lockout seaon. He gave teams problems with Gary Payton. The Greek Freak is taller, longer, can shoot better, can dribble better plus has more moves in his repertoire than Kemp.

Greek Freak is literally a bigger, stronger, more athletic, more skilled and talented version of Shawn Kemp!

Here comes the Nick Wrong parrot again with his BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER BS.

As I've said Doncic and Joker /thread

[Ne 1]

Interesting you mentioned Barkley, whose game during his peak/prime was more relative to Giannis' than maybe even David Robinson.


KL Steve thank you bruh! And in today's game being able to bracket shaq would immensely affect his dominance in the paint! You can't play how shack played if the defense can bracket you which was illegal in '90s!

Barkley was a 6'4” PF that averaged that. LMAO! That should tell you how trash the paint was is when a 6'4 guy is getting those numbers! Charles Barkley is actually the reason the NBA implemented the 5 second rule, but I bet you didn't know that!

[Reggie43]

That’s because it's hard to play bigs now! Guess what? Ewing in this era couldn't be played half the time because he’s too slow footed to guard the 3 point line and can't hit jump shots to open the lane and space the floor.


https://youtu.be/8-0i4JwQudU

I think its time to stop discussing oldschool basketball and start watching it.

[HoopsNY]

This is seriously a waste of time. Ewing couldn't hit jump shots? His mid-range and stepping out 20+ ft was literally his forte.

[BigShotBob]

KL Steve thank you bruh! And in today's game being able to bracket shaq would immensely affect his dominance in the paint! You can't play how shack played if the defense can bracket you which was illegal in '90s!

Barkley was a 6'4” PF that averaged that. LMAO! That should tell you how trash the paint was is when a 6'4 guy is getting those numbers! Charles Barkley is actually the reason the NBA implemented the 5 second rule, but I bet you didn't know that!

Literally everyone knew that

[Airupthere]

Literally everyone knew that

:roll: so that’s where the self-righteousness is coming from

[Baller789]

Ne1 is bottom of the barrel level poster.

[Ne 1]

This is seriously a waste of time. Ewing couldn't hit jump shots? His mid-range and stepping out 20+ ft was literally his forte.

Ewing had a good little baseline jumper. But he was slow footed and again couldn't make others around him better according to Oakley. But the guys like Jokic, Dirk, Duncan or AD, Joel, KAT, Giannis are all better bigs. And more skilled! Christopher Hose I mean your are a waste of time. It’s not even worth arguing, especially when you have Hakeem, Shaq and other bigs really starting to understand that the bigs today are just more skilled lol.

Jokic, KAT, AD, Giannis, are all better bigs than Ewing lol

[ralph_i_el]

Ewing had a good little baseline jumper. But he was slow footed and again couldn't make others around him better according to Oakley. But the guys like Jokic, Dirk, Duncan or AD, Joel, KAT, Giannis are all better bigs. And more skilled! Christopher Hose I mean your are a waste of time. It’s not even worth arguing, especially when you have Hakeem, Shaq and other bigs really starting to understand that the bigs today are just more skilled lol.

Jokic, KAT, AD, Giannis, are all better bigs than Ewing lol

Fun fact, per-100 possessions, Ewing and KAT's most prolific seasons scoring are 36.2 Points per 100. KAT is skilled on offense, but he plays no D and chucks on teams that have no pressure and don't expect to win. He's not proved himself to be anything more than a scorer.

[Baller789]

Ewing had a good little baseline jumper. But he was slow footed and again couldn't make others around him better according to Oakley. But the guys like Jokic, Dirk, Duncan or AD, Joel, KAT, Giannis are all better bigs. And more skilled! Christopher Hose I mean your are a waste of time. It’s not even worth arguing, especially when you have Hakeem, Shaq and other bigs really starting to understand that the bigs today are just more skilled lol.

Jokic, KAT, AD, Giannis, are all better bigs than Ewing lol

What garbage post is this?

You never once disproved HoopNY's point.

The closest you got is that he had a good little baseline jumper which in itself disingenious.

Bottom of the barrel poster indeed.

[Johnny32]

giannis >>>>> ewing
middleton >>> starks
holiday > starks

[Johnny32]

hell why stop there.

bobby portis > starks

[Ne 1]

Fun fact, per-100 possessions, Ewing and KAT's most prolific seasons scoring are 36.2 Points per 100. KAT is skilled on offense, but he plays no D and chucks on teams that have no pressure and don't expect to win. He's not proved himself to be anything more than a scorer.

Why should I care about that? I care about the TALENT and SKILL of the player. KAT is more skilled and better. Place him in the ‘90s and with what he can do in the 90s his ish would be up there as well lol

You say he chucks 3s, but shoots at a 40% clip for his career lol. He's just a better, more well rounded player. Ball shooter, better ball handler, can play anywhere in the post, shot the mid-range and he's better defensively on the perimeter. KAT > Ewing Lmao

[Airupthere]

Why should I care about that? I care about the TALENT and SKILL of the player. KAT is more skilled and better. Place him in the ‘90s and with what he can do in the 90s his ish would be up there as well lol

You say he chucks 3s, but shoots at a 40% clip for his career lol. He's just a better, more well rounded player. Ball shooter, better ball handler, can play anywhere in the post, shot the mid-range and he's better defensively on the perimeter. KAT > Ewing Lmao

Lol, KAT > Ewing? KAT is mentally weak. How may times have we seen him not able to back up the defender and get bullied on the inside?

[Baller789]

giannis >>>>> ewing
middleton >>> starks
holiday > starks


hell why stop there.

bobby portis > starks

No one cares what you think Johnny boy. :oldlol:

[BigShotBob]

Lol, KAT > Ewing? KAT is mentally weak. How may times have we seen him not able to back up the defender and get bullied on the inside?

KAT was literally eviscerated by Clint Capela in the playoffs

[Ne 1]

Lol, KAT > Ewing? KAT is mentally weak. How may times have we seen him not able to back up the defender and get bullied on the inside?

Now how could you possibly know that he's mentally weak or not? You're not with him everyday in the locker room, you don't know him personally, you don't know what's been said about him as far as his coaches. The problem with you guys is you’re listening to guys like Skip Bayless and Stephen A. They don't know anything that's going on. KAT is a better all around player then Ewing. More skilled, better shooter, just as good a rebounder. What's funny is you say that he gets punished in the paint, but he also averages about three to four offensive rebounds a game that's not getting punished in the paint. But when you look at everything that KAT can do. He's just obviously more skilled and talented than Ewing .

[kawhileonard2]

Starks is the modern day Donovan Mitchell.

[SATAN]

kawhileonard2 is a modern day neanderthal.

[Baller789]

That makes you a poor man's plankton :lol

[ELITEpower23]

John Starks never cracked 20 ppg and only has two seasons where he averaged over 15.3 ppg. His shooting percentage was constantly in the low 40s. Khris Middleton has 3 20 ppg seasons and has averaged at least 18 ppg his last 8 seasons, with the exception of one where he was injured. His other numbers are better than Starks' numbers as well.

Yet here we are actually debating which of these two players was better.

+1

Middleton had a 20 ppg 50/40/90 season with solid defense.

Starks bagged groceries :oldlol:

[Baller789]

+1

Middleton had a 20 ppg 50/40/90 season with solid defense.

Starks bagged groceries :oldlol:

Cool.

Now compare the centers of the 90's to the current era's.