how many times has a team won without an all time great legend...

[John_Connor]

...that was established prior to winning


2004?


that's all I can think of since 1980


so the only teams that have a shot at winning a title are

- Bucks
- Warriors
- Lakers
- Nets
- Suns

outside shot: Denver


fans of all other teams might as well call it a year. the league won't let you win. go home

[Pip' N Rodman]

When did Kobe do this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGsMUvQWUAgoGx6?format=jpg&name=medium

[John_Connor]

When did Kobe do this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGsMUvQWUAgoGx6?format=jpg&name=medium

get his head below the rim? on every dunk he's ever made

[1987_Lakers]

This post just shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to history, one of the reasons why you look silly when debating me about the past.

'78 Bullets & '79 Sonics come to mind. You could argue Elvin Hayes was an all-time great legend, but he was looked at as the Westbrook/Iverson of his era, inefficient as a big man and to make things worse a terrible teammate who lowered the morale of the team. The 2014 Spurs had no all-time great legends in their prime as well, Duncan was well past his prime and Kawhi was just a puppy.

But yes, most championship teams have a superstar in their prime.

[John_Connor]

This post just shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to history, one of the reasons why you look silly when debating me about the past.

'78 Bullets & '79 Sonics come to mind. You could argue Elvin Hayes was an all-time great legend, but he was looked at as the Westbrook/Iverson of his era, inefficient as a big man and to make things worse a terrible teammate who lowered the morale of the team. The 2014 Spurs had no all-time great legends in their prime as well, Duncan was well past his prime and Kawhi was just a puppy.

But yes, most championship teams have a superstar in their prime.

I meant to say since 1980 and forgot to edit it. that's a better cut off since it shows when the nba moved to a more star driven league


the spurs had Duncan. when did I say they had to be prime. he was still a big name.


fact is the league obviously only let's superstars win

[John_Connor]

Steve Simon wheels thought he was gonna look so damn smart by proving that someone in the 70s also won without a superstar legendary name lol

you really got me jew boy. a whole 3 teams even if it's the merger and not 1980 as the cut off


wow il place a big bet on the bulls or jazz winning it all now

[1987_Lakers]

I meant to say since 1980 and forgot to edit it. that's a better cut off since it shows when the nba moved to a more star driven league


the spurs had Duncan. when did I say they had to be prime. he was still a big name.


fact is the league obviously only let's superstars win

Sure you forgot. :oldlol:

[iamgine]

Recently:

GSW's championship in '15

Raptors championship in '19

Bucks championship in '21

[FultzNationRISE]

Recently:

GSW's championship in '15

Raptors championship in '19

Bucks championship in '21


Shots fired.

[John_Connor]

Recently:

GSW's championship in '15

Raptors championship in '19

Bucks championship in '21

steph was already a huge name. hence his 2015 league mvp

kawhi had already won a finals mvp and was a big name

giannis had already won multiple league mvps


all these guys were house hold names and could sell...


who on the jazz or bulls is a house hold name. who would casuals tune into see. teams like that winning is next to impossible

[Johnny32]

jokic is currently playing like a top 3 center of all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Recently:

GSW's championship in '15

Raptors championship in '19

Bucks championship in '21
This is a really bad post

[SouBeachTalents]

But yeah, a top 5 player wins the championship virtually every season.

[John_Connor]

jokic is currently playing like a top 3 center of all time.

I gave Denver an outside chance. he won mvp but I don't think it registered yet to many fans

[Airupthere]

2004 does not count either. According to bronsexuals, Billups-Ben Wallace were like MJ-Horace. Billups should then be an atg and we should rewrite the top10 to include him.

[SouBeachTalents]

2004 does not count either. According to bronsexuals, Billups-Ben Wallace were like MJ-Horace. Billups should then be an atg and we should rewrite the top10 to include him.
That comparison has literally never been made. Ever. And Wallace was a better player than Grant, so it’d also make no sense, even for trolling purposes.

[Airupthere]

That comparison has literally never been made. Ever. And Wallace was a better player than Grant, so it’d also make no sense, even for trolling purposes.

You dont have to cover up for the branstans, you are one of the better bron fans. Except that it has been suggested by a bronsexual.


In what way was Michael Jordan better than Dennis Rodman/Horace Grant that Chauncey Billups was not better than Ben Wallace?

[iamgine]

steph was already a huge name. hence his 2015 league mvp

kawhi had already won a finals mvp and was a big name

giannis had already won multiple league mvps


all these guys were house hold names and could sell...


who on the jazz or bulls is a house hold name. who would casuals tune into see. teams like that winning is next to impossible

They were not all time great legend at that point.

[John_Connor]

They were not all time great legend at that point.

yes they were

at least on pace to be. they all had the makeup and major accomplishments already. was really only a matter of time

a legend to me is a house hold name with top 30 all time skills or resume

[iamgine]

yes they were

at least on pace to be. they all had the makeup and major accomplishments already. was really only a matter of time

a legend to me is a house hold name with top 30 all time skills or resume

'on pace to be' means they were not.

[bison]

kawhi is arguable if he was already an established ATG when he won with toronto.

Curry and Giannis were already league faces by the time they went to their first finals.

[jayfan]

This post just shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to history, one of the reasons why you look silly when debating me about the past.

'78 Bullets & '79 Sonics come to mind. You could argue Elvin Hayes was an all-time great legend, but he was looked at as the Westbrook/Iverson of his era, inefficient as a big man and to make things worse a terrible teammate who lowered the morale of the team. The 2014 Spurs had no all-time great legends in their prime as well, Duncan was well past his prime and Kawhi was just a puppy.

But yes, most championship teams have a superstar in their prime.


OP never said in their prime. You added that.

Regardless, Duncan may have been a bit past his prime in '14, but he was certainly an essential part of that team.


.

[John_Connor]

'on pace to be' means they were not.

they were though. it's a matter of filling out the time to accompany the achievements. those are the hard part. just having the tenure is filler. curry, kawhi, giannis all had major awards before winning those specific years. they were house hold names and legendary talents.

its like wishing for a Derrick Rose type injury to negate them from continuing their legends. all rose had to do was finish out his career at a high level and hes top 30 all time.

the league was trying to continue curry/kawhi/giannis's legends with their titles. had they not been on that level they don't let them win. like Miami in 2020. it wouldn't have mattered what they did. Butler isn't tapped for greatness. he isn't a made man.

[Honor Boost]

2008 unless you think Paul Pierce was something extra special.

[iamgine]

they were though. it's a matter of filling out the time to accompany the achievements. those are the hard part. just having the tenure is filler. curry, kawhi, giannis all had major awards before winning those specific years. they were house hold names and legendary talents.

its like wishing for a Derrick Rose type injury to negate them from continuing their legends. all rose had to do was finish out his career at a high level and hes top 30 all time.

the league was trying to continue curry/kawhi/giannis's legends with their titles. had they not been on that level they don't let them win. like Miami in 2020. it wouldn't have mattered what they did. Butler isn't tapped for greatness. he isn't a made man.

Uh no. 'On pace to be' clearly means they were not.

Who in their right mind would call Curry an all time great legend in 2015 before winning anything?

[bizil]

2004 Pistons and 1979 Sonics. By all time great legend, we are talking superstar caliber guys. Guys where you could say they are among the top 10 EVER at their respective position AT LEAST in a peak-prime status mode. 2004 Pistons and 1979 Sonics didn't have that type of setup.

On the flip side, the 2004 Pistons started 4 guys all in the top 10 in the league at their respective positions. That in ITSELF is rare as hell. They just didn't have superstar type guys.

[Charlie Sheen]

Uh no. 'On pace to be' clearly means they were not.

Who in their right mind would call Curry an all time great legend in 2015 before winning anything?

I think plenty of people were and that's probably what went into the Warriors thinking when they shitcanned Mark Jackson.

[ShawkFactory]

That comparison has literally never been made. Ever. And Wallace was a better player than Grant, so it’d also make no sense, even for trolling purposes.

I think that’s actually closer than some think.

[RRR3]

I think that’s actually closer than some think.
Don’t tell Snivelly that.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Pistons 2004.

I guess that makes Shaq\Kobe the WOAT duo for losing to a team without any all time great legend...

They should of lost to Kings in 2002 and should of lost to blazers in 2000, so it was pretty much like they only won 1 legit title.

[John_Connor]

2008 unless you think Paul Pierce was something extra special.

Garnett? lol wtf

[John_Connor]

Uh no. 'On pace to be' clearly means they were not.

Who in their right mind would call Curry an all time great legend in 2015 before winning anything?

after curry won mvp in the 2nd round he stamped himself as a legend the league wants to build upon. like I said it's just filler that a guy needs after that to stay a legend. Derrick Rose was a legend after his 2011 mvp. but he killed his status through injuries.


everyone had curry and rose jerseys after they won mvp.

jokic is borderline cause hes not really popular.


the league wants guys with marketability and status to build their brand on

that's the point. so in your mind they weren't legends but in millions of their fans minds they were and the nba is marketing their product to them

[SouBeachTalents]

after curry won mvp in the 2nd round he stamped himself as a legend the league wants to build upon. like I said it's just filler that a guy needs after that to stay a legend. Derrick Rose was a legend after his 2011 mvp. but he killed his status through injuries.


everyone had curry and rose jerseys after they won mvp.

jokic is borderline cause hes not really popular.


the league wants guys with marketability and status to build their brand on

that's the point. so in your mind they weren't legends but in millions of their fans minds they were and the nba is marketing their product to them
The fact top 5 players win nearly every year is correct, and of course superstars/marquee teams get favorable calls, but if your theory is it's strictly due to marketability you're incorrect. Tim Duncan was legitimately the least marketed superstar in league history, and that was a Ray Allen 3 away from matching Jordan in titles.

[iamgine]

after curry won mvp in the 2nd round he stamped himself as a legend the league wants to build upon. like I said it's just filler that a guy needs after that to stay a legend. Derrick Rose was a legend after his 2011 mvp. but he killed his status through injuries.


everyone had curry and rose jerseys after they won mvp.

jokic is borderline cause hes not really popular.


the league wants guys with marketability and status to build their brand on

that's the point. so in your mind they weren't legends but in millions of their fans minds they were and the nba is marketing their product to them
Uh no, Derrick Rose was not an all time great legend in 2011.

Never heard his fans said he was an all time great legend back then either.

[kawhileonard2]

When did Kobe do this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGsMUvQWUAgoGx6?format=jpg&name=medium

When did this happen to Kobe?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher



Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED



Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.


Jarrett Allen vs Gobert and Jarrett Allen vs Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499786-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Gobert-and-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Lebron