Nikola Jokic vs Larry Bird

[iamgine]

Who's the better player? Is Jokic better than Bird ever was? Or was Bird clearly better?

[coastalmarker99]

Who's the better player? Is Jokic better than Bird ever was? Or was Bird clearly better?

This is flat-out disrespectful to Bird.


Bird in his rookie year turned a 29 win team into a 61 win team and this was before Kevin McHale entered the league and Robert Parish was still with the Warriors.



Also

Bird won 3 consecutive MVP's, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-2 in MVP voting for 6 consecutive seasons, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-3 in MVP voting for 8 consecutive seasons, the 2nd-longest streak ever.

[iamgine]

This is flat-out disrespectful to Bird.


Bird in his rookie year turned a 29 win team into a 61 win team and this was before Kevin McHale entered the league and Robert Parish was still with the Warriors.



Also

Bird won 3 consecutive MVP's, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-2 in MVP voting for 6 consecutive seasons, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-3 in MVP voting for 8 consecutive seasons, the 2nd-longest streak ever.

It's pretty much a false myth that Bird single handedly turned a 29 win team into a 61 win team.

But he was indeed a great player.

[Full Court]

I give it to Bird by virtue of being a better defender while still being elite on offense.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why ask this question without adding a poll? Is it because OP knew Jokic would get smoked :lol

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

This is flat-out disrespectful to Bird.


Bird in his rookie year turned a 29 win team into a 61 win team and this was before Kevin McHale entered the league and Robert Parish was still with the Warriors.



Also

Bird won 3 consecutive MVP's, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-2 in MVP voting for 6 consecutive seasons, the longest streak ever.

Bird was top-3 in MVP voting for 8 consecutive seasons, the 2nd-longest streak ever.

Mvp Dave cowens was on that Celtics team, won multiple times and eliminated Kareem in the finals on his home court.

It was similar to kawhi joining Duncan.

[Round Mound]

I give it to Bird by virtue of being a better defender while still being elite on offense.

this

[RRR3]

People acting like this is an absurd comparison are apparently unaware of how good Jokic is playing lol.

[Bronbron23]

Who's the better player? Is Jokic better than Bird ever was? Or was Bird clearly better?

Bird was significantly better in almost ever area of the game. No knock on jokic just shows how great bird was

[HighFloor84]

I feel Jokic has the potential to be a top 25 player all time. He's special, and would be surprised if he's not the best player on a championship team within the next 4-6 years.

However..... Larry Bird is the easy answer here. He was a very good defender, and made jaw dropping passes off the dribble & in transition as opposed to Jokic who is more prone to hitting cutters & shooters from the elbow in the half court

Again, I love Jokic. I saw him play in person for the first time last week & was amazed at his court vision, basketball IQ, and scoring ability. But Bird is the answer here

[Im so nba'd out]

Bird is top 10 ever. Jokic didn’t even sniff the top 75 list….stop it…get some help

[tontoz]

Keep in mind that Jokic wasn't that great his first few years.

Over the last two seasons Jokic has definitely been comparable to Bird. Hard to make an apples to apples comparison due to them playing different positions in different eras, but they do have a lot of similarities.

Jokic could certainly surpass Bird who was an old rookie at 23 and didn't have much longevity.

[RRR3]

Bird was significantly better in almost ever area of the game. No knock on jokic just shows how great bird was
Muh nostalgia

[SouBeachTalents]

Keep in mind that Jokic wasn't that great his first few years.

Over the last two seasons Jokic has definitely been comparable to Bird. Hard to make an apples to apples comparison due to them playing different positions in different eras, but they do have a lot of similarities.

Jokic could certainly surpass Bird who was an old rookie at 23 and didn't have much longevity.
Extraordinarily unlikely

[999Guy]

Current Jokic is obviously better on both ends.

The fatter Jokic of last year is a much better comparison. And I’d still take him in a playoff series.

Jokic the past 3 years has been like Majin Buu. All these different shapes, and he levels up every shape change.


Jokic is rebounding the ball better than Gobert on defense and is a lock down pick and roll defender. Anyone saying anything different is just an ass that doesn’t watch him and assumes whatever is popular to assume I.e fat white guy can’t be good on D.

Jokic kills Bird as a one on one scorer. Bird shot floaters where Jokic would dunk. Bird had no ball handling compared to Nikola, and couldn’t create tough 3’s and jumpers at a stand still in this Dirk-like fashion as easily as giant Nikola.


Jokic is the size of Marc Gasol and he has better guard skills than Chris Paul ever did. He has a seemingly unlimited, ****ing video game like ceiling that Bird just didn’t have.

I could see Jokic absolutely crucifying playoff teams like Peak LeBron or Jordan because of this.

[tontoz]

Extraordinarily unlikely

Jokic just won a MVP at age 25 and is playing better this year.

Bird's play fell off hard at 32 due to his back. He didn't have that many years as an elite player.

[Johnny32]

jokic is redefining the center position.

[Bronbron23]

Muh nostalgia

Or it's just true. The only area where bird isn't better is rebounds and post play. Bird is better in every other aspect. Better passer, scorer, mid, three, ft, handles, leader, better athlete, mental you name it.

Are you actually arguing any of this? Wait let me guess muh duh. I swear that's all you can say. Don't think i've ever seen your r*tarded ass make a normal intelligent response to anyone.

You think and talk the way you look. Dumb as f*ck https://i.postimg.cc/sXRfYBpx/RRR3tard.png

[tontoz]

Bird's shooting gets seriously overrated. A lot of people dont know that he badly injured a finger on his shooting hand that never healed, hampering his shooting.

He actually had 4 straight years in his prime shooting under 30% from 3. For his career he averaged less than 1 made 3 per game.

Different era but Jokic has far better scoring efficiency, especially the last two years. For his career his TS is 5% higher and is trending up.

[RRR3]

Bird is absolutely not a better scorer than current Jokic shut the **** up dumbdumb23 lmao. It’s not my fault you’re unwilling to realize how good some of the best modern players are because of nostalgia.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird's shooting gets seriously overrated. A lot of people dont know that he badly injured a finger on his shooting hand that never healed, hampering his shooting.

He actually had 4 straight years in his prime shooting under 30% from 3. For his career he averaged less than 1 made 3 per game.

Different era but Jokic has far better scoring efficiency, especially the last two years. For his career his TS is 5% higher and is trending up.

To be fair, those numbers are from when the 3 point line was barley introduced and great shooters had a crap 3pt% when the line was just introduced. Craig Hodges for example shot 28% from 3 in his first three seasons, once players actually started to use the 3 point shot as a weapon from time to time Hodges shot 43% from 3.

Bird from '85-'88 shot 41% from three, he won three straight 3 point contests, and he was always a near 90% FT shooter. If Bird started playing in this era where players actually practice shooting 3s he would absolutely kill it from downtown. Bird himself said he never really practiced shooting 3s.

[tontoz]

To be fair, those numbers are from when the 3 point line was barley introduced and great shooters had a crap 3pt% when the line was just introduced. Craig Hodges for example shot 28% from 3 in his first three seasons, once players actually started to use the 3 point shot as a weapon from time to time Hodges shot 43% from 3.

Bird from '85-'88 shot 41% from three, he won three straight 3 point contests, and he was always a near 90% FT shooter. If Bird started playing in this era where players actually practice shooting 3s he would absolutely kill it from downtown. Bird himself said he never really practiced shooting 3s.

Bird also said he was a better shooter in college before he trashed his finger. He hurt it playing softball. He recently did an interview with McHale showing the finger. Not pretty.

The most 3s per game he ever made for a season was 1.3 and remember he played 38 minutes per game for his career. People act like he was some prolific 3 pt shooter which was never the case. In the playoffs he was 32% from 3 for his career.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird also said he was a better shooter in college before he trashed his finger. He hurt it playing softball. He recently did an interview with McHale showing the finger. Not pretty.

The most 3s per game he ever made for a season was 1.3 and remember he played 38 minutes per game for his career. People act like he was some prolific 3 pt shooter which was never the case. In the playoffs he was 32% from 3 for his career.

Well yea, nobody hit 3s at a high volume in those days, maybe his messed up finger effected his shooting ability, but I would still say he was a pretty damn good shooter, his FT% got better and better as he aged with that messed up finger so I'm positive it didn't effect him too much.

I'm sure if he played in this era he would be an elite 3 point shooter.

[tontoz]

Well yea, nobody hit 3s at a high volume in those days, maybe his messed up finger effected his shooting ability, but I would still say he was a pretty damn good shooter, his FT% got better and better as he aged with that messed up finger so I'm positive it didn't effect him too much.

I'm sure if he played in this era he would be an elite 3 point shooter.


Shooting foul shots isn't the same as taking contested 25 footers.


“Bird laughs a little bit and holds up his right index finger,” John Papanek recounted in a 1981 Sports Illustrated story. “‘This,’ he says. The finger is shaped much like a boomerang, permanently bent toward his thumb at a 45-degree angle. Two operations have failed to straighten it; he can bend it only halfway to his palm. ‘I didn’t have this in college,’ he says.”



https://www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-became-deadly-nba-scorer-despite-permanently-bent-finger/

[1987_Lakers]

Shooting foul shots isn't the same as taking contested 25 footers.



https://www.sportscasting.com/larry-bird-became-deadly-nba-scorer-despite-permanently-bent-finger/

Historically, players who are near 90% free throw shooters like Bird was are also elite 3 point shooters, in Bird's last 7 years in the NBA he shot 40% from 3 despite that shot not being as utilized as it is today. He would be fine in today's era.

[tontoz]

Historically, players who are near 90% free throw shooters like Bird was are also elite 3 point shooters, in Bird's last 7 years in the NBA he shot 40% from 3 despite that shot not being as utilized as it is today. He would be fine in today's era.

He would be "fine" in any era because he was a great player.

His career 37.6% shooting from 3 on low volume doesn't argue that he would be a great 3pt shooter. Cherry picking stats makes anyone look better than they actually were.

Since we are hopping eras then we can also speculate about injuries. If he played in this era without the damaged finger i have no doubt he would be a great 3 pt shooter.

[Wally450]

Bird is one of the greatest players of all time. Jokic isn't there yet, but has potential to be.

[BigShotBob]

Bird is absolutely not a better scorer than current Jokic shut the **** up dumbdumb23 lmao. It’s not my fault you’re unwilling to realize how good some of the best modern players are because of nostalgia.

You are literally retarded

[tontoz]

Jokic is currently averaging over 26 ppg with a TS of 66%. There aren't many guys who have scored that many points with comparable efficiency. Off the top of my head Steph, Barkley, Durant and Dantley have done it. Not many others i would think.

Also remember that his 2nd and 3rd options are out hurt so the defense is able to focus more on him. Doesn't matter.

[1987_Lakers]

He would be "fine" in any era because he was a great player.

His career 37.6% shooting from 3 on low volume doesn't argue that he would be a great 3pt shooter. Cherry picking stats makes anyone look better than they actually were.

Since we are hopping eras then we can also speculate about injuries. If he played in this era without the damaged finger i have no doubt he would be a great 3 pt shooter.

I think it's kinda unfair to use Bird's 3pt% in his first few years in the league against him considering it was a new shot and players/teams rarely used it.

[999Guy]

Bird is a better pure shooter but he is not as athletic, and creative with the ball so his raw scoring is clearly worse.

Jokic is just automatic at the rim a lot of angles, with a small on him, when facing up from midrange and that mid range floater he seems to never miss. Bird wasn’t truly automatic unless it was with room off the catch from midrange. And maybe his sweeping hooks that would not stand against athletic freaks and elite defenders.


Jokic makes Draymond look like a boy in the post and he makes Gobert look like a statue when facing up off the dribble.

That’s not really close to what Jokic does.


Jokic is much more physically dominant than Bird. And physically dominant players do the best in the playoffs. Maybe along guys with rare levels of skill. Jokic is deep into BOTH categories.

Whole other level.

[1987_Lakers]

And I will say Jokic is terribly underrated by people, his downside is that he isn't your prototypical defensive center like most dominant centers have been in the past, but if we are talking strictly offense... he may very well go down as maybe a top 4-5 offensive center in NBA history, he has already surpassed Bill Walton as a passer and his scoring skills just keep getting better and better.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird is a better pure shooter but he is not as athletic, and creative with the ball so his raw scoring is clearly worse.

Jokic is just automatic at the rim a lot of angles, with a small on him, when facing up from
Midrange. Bird wasn’t truly automatic unless it was with room off the catch from midrange.

That’s not gonna close to what Jokic does.


Jokic is much more physically dominant than Bird. And physically dominant players do the best in the playoffs. Maybe along guys with rare levels of skill. Jokic is deep into BOTH categories.

Whole other level.

Bird's athleticism in his younger days wasn't bad at all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaKRghcLQSY

[Bronbron23]

Bird is absolutely not a better scorer than current Jokic shut the **** up dumbdumb23 lmao. It’s not my fault you’re unwilling to realize how good some of the best modern players are because of nostalgia.

Bird could hit steph curry type threes when he felt like it. He just rarely did because he played with the Celtics system. Put Bird in this era in a ball dominant role and he'd put up ridiculous numbers.

[tontoz]

I think it's kinda unfair to use Bird's 3pt% in his first few years in the league against him considering it was a new shot and players/teams rarely used it.


I don't care what you think is fair. You are cherry picking. He shot 40% as a rookie. No reason to have 4 straight sub 30% seasons after that.

He was a career 32% 3 pt shooter in the playoffs. Not a small sample either, 164 games.

[Bronbron23]

Bird's shooting gets seriously overrated. A lot of people dont know that he badly injured a finger on his shooting hand that never healed, hampering his shooting.

He actually had 4 straight years in his prime shooting under 30% from 3. For his career he averaged less than 1 made 3 per game.

Different era but Jokic has far better scoring efficiency, especially the last two years. For his career his TS is 5% higher and is trending up.

Not sure if your being serious or just trolling but Bird only shot less than 30% in the 4 seasons where he shot 1 three or less. Whole teams were only shooting 5 threes a game. The majority of these were clearly prayers at the end of the clock. In the rest of the seasons where he shot more than 1 three he averaged over 40% from 3 and he only shot under 39% once.

You clearly have no idea how good of three point shooter bird was. He'd be taking 10 threes a game in this era. He'd be hitting steph type threes at 6'9.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird could hit steph curry type threes when he felt like it. He just rarely did because he played with the Celtics system. Put Bird in this era in a ball dominant role and he'd put up ridiculous numbers.

I wouldn't go that far.

As far as scoring is considered, Bird & Jokic seem to be on similar levels, if there was one thing I feel gets slightly overrated when discussing Bird is his scoring, he wasn't MJ, Durant, or LeBron as a scorer even though I've seen people try to put him there, what separated Bird from most players was his passing, that's not to say he couldn't score because he absolutely could, but he was more of a Dirk type of scorer than he was a MJ/Durant type scorer.

And Bird would NEVER be in a ball-dominant role because his ball-handling skills and ability to drive are subpar and clearly below elite level.

[Bronbron23]

Bird is a better pure shooter but he is not as athletic, and creative with the ball so his raw scoring is clearly worse.

Jokic is just automatic at the rim a lot of angles, with a small on him, when facing up from midrange and that mid range floater he seems to never miss. Bird wasn’t truly automatic unless it was with room off the catch from midrange. And maybe his sweeping hooks that would not stand against athletic freaks and elite defenders.


Jokic makes Draymond look like a boy in the post and he makes Gobert look like a statue when facing up off the dribble.

That’s not really close to what Jokic does.


Jokic is much more physically dominant than Bird. And physically dominant players do the best in the playoffs. Maybe along guys with rare levels of skill. Jokic is deep into BOTH categories.

Whole other level.

Not as athletic? Is this a joke?

[1987_Lakers]

I don't care what you think is fair. You are cherry picking. He shot 40% as a rookie. No reason to have 4 straight sub 30% seasons after that.

He was a career 32% 3 pt shooter in the playoffs. Not a small sample either, 164 games.

You are chery picking seasons Bird averaged 0.9 3pt attempts per game. :oldlol:

Shit, how many people win three straight 3 point contests in a row? He was beating out Craig Hodges and Dale Ellis in those competitions, players who are considered one of the greatest shooters ever. You don't win 3 in a row if you are not a great shooter.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpClp0xiAk

Start watching at 3:15 mark. Made 11 in a row at one point.

:applause:

[Bronbron23]

I wouldn't go that far.

As far as scoring is considered, Bird & Jokic seem to be on similar levels, if there was one thing I feel gets slightly overrated when discussing Bird is his scoring, he wasn't MJ, Durant, or LeBron as a scorer even though I've seen people try to put him there, what separated Bird from most players was his passing, that's not to say he couldn't score because he absolutely could, but he was more of a Dirk type of scorer than he was a MJ/Durant type scorer.

And Bird would NEVER be in a ball-dominant role because his ball-handling skills and ability to drive are subpar and clearly below elite level.

Dude in this era with in a ball dominant role hed definitely score with those guys. For one he'd be shooting qlmost 10 more threes. Plus Go back watch how the Celtics played it was truly a team game.

And his handles were fine. He could do what luka does.

[StrongLurk]

They are very close regardless. People will simply hide behind Bird's accolades and act like this is not a close comparison...but Jokic really does need to play like this for a long time.

Right now, Jokic is the best offensive player in the league.

[Bronbron23]

You are chery picking seasons Bird averaged 0.9 3pt attempts per game. :oldlol:

Shit, how many people win three straight 3 point contests in a row? He was beating out Craig Hodges and Dale Ellis in those competitions, players who are considered one of the greatest shooters ever. You don't win 3 in a row if you are not a great shooter.

Honestly the stupidity in this place is insane. Bird is one of the best shooters ever qnd other than steph he'd be the best shooter in the nba now.

[tontoz]

You are chery picking seasons Bird averaged 0.9 3pt attempts per game. :oldlol:

Shit, how many people win three straight 3 point contests in a row? He was beating out Craig Hodges and Dale Ellis in those competitions, players who are considered one of the greatest shooters ever. You don't win 3 in a row if you are not a great shooter.


I am using his career numbers. 37.6% from 3 for his career is nothing special. 32% in the playoffs is bad.

The 3 point contest is a different thing altogether. Fatigue comes into play. Bird had the advantage there because he didn't jump much on his shot.

His 3 pt contest wins didn't amount to a hill of beans in the playoffs.

[1987_Lakers]

Dude in this era with in a ball dominant role hed definitely score with those guys. For one he'd be shooting qlmost 10 more threes. Plus Go back watch how the Celtics played it was truly a team game.

And his handles were fine. He could do what luka does.

As far as ball-handling? LOL, No.

He would definitely benefit from the 3 point shot, but Bird in a ball-dominant role wouldn't work. He was an excellent off ball-player and there are plenty of point guards in this league who are more well-equipped to be the primary ball-handler over Bird.

The Celtics during Bird's peak never even had a true point guard and they still for the most part had Bird playing off the ball alot, that should tell you something.

[Bronbron23]

As far as ball-handling? LOL, No.

He would definitely benefit from the 3 point shot, but Bird in a ball-dominant role wouldn't work. He was an excellent off ball-player and there are plenty of point guards in this league who are more well-equipped to be the primary ball-handler over Bird.

The Celtics during Bird's peak never even had a true point guard and they still for the most part had Bird playing off the ball alot, that should tell you something.

Dude it's how the Celtics played. Birds handles for time was pretty good. He could easily play a luka type rule in this era. Remember he'd have this era's Hindsight qnd different play style.

[999Guy]

Dude in this era with in a ball dominant role hed definitely score with those guys. For one he'd be shooting qlmost 10 more threes. Plus Go back watch how the Celtics played it was truly a team game.

And his handles were fine. He could do what luka does.
Only an idiot would put Bird in a ball dominant role. That would defeat a large part of what made him good.

Doing what he did without ball dominance. And Bird was not a natural ball handler, nor he did he have the athleticism to even make ball handling make sense.

Jokic is a more natural ball handler at his size.

Jokic has elite strength, and is nimble, and has a nice wingspan and standing reach. Bird was not elite in any category of athleticism.

Can you actually care to explain why Bird never came close to Jokic scoring heights? You think it’s for no reason?

[mr4speed]

Mvp Dave cowens was on that Celtics team, won multiple times and eliminated Kareem in the finals on his home court.

It was similar to kawhi joining Duncan.
Dave Cowens played with Bird for only 1 season = 79-80 which was Bird's rookie season and then Cowens retired, so no it was not similar at all.

[John_Connor]

Who's the better player? Is Jokic better than Bird ever was? Or was Bird clearly better?

wait a second. I thought to be comparable to a legend you had to basically finish your career and already have a bunch of rings.. how can jokic be anywhere near bird. he's basically on curry 2015 pre ring post mvp status right now... duuuuuurrrrrr

[Bronbron23]

Only an idiot would put Bird in a ball dominant role. That would defeat a large part of what made him good.

Doing what he did without ball dominance. And Bird was not a natural ball handler, nor he did he have the athleticism to even make ball handling make sense.

Jokic is a more natural ball handler at his size.

Jokic has elite strength, and is nimble, and has a nice wingspan and standing reach. Bird was not elite in any category of athleticism.

Can you actually care to explain why Bird never came close to Jokic scoring heights? You think it’s for no reason?

Clearly but Ball dominant systems in general are idiotic. The point was to explain the difference in stats when comparing ball dominant systems to systems with lots of movement.

And bird was every bit the ball hander jokic was. He was qlso q better athlete, shooter and passer. Jokic was bigger and stronger though.

As far as bird not reaching jokers scoring heights i don't what the hell your talking about. Jokic has never scored 29 q game. He did once in the payoffs which is 2 more than birds best but it's only because he shot a few more shots. Bird qlso did it while winning a chip while jokic did it in 2 rounds. Talk to me when jokic can scor 28 pts a game for a whole finals run. Not that that will ever happen

[Bronbron23]

wait a second. I thought to be comparable to a legend you had to basically finish your career and already have a bunch of rings.. how can jokic be anywhere near bird. he's basically on curry 2015 pre ring post mvp status right now... duuuuuurrrrrr

Because it's ish and alot of people are insane:oldlol:

[999Guy]

Clearly but Ball dominant systems in general are idiotic. The point was to explain the difference in stats when comparing ball dominant systems to systems with lots of movement.

And bird was every bit the ball hander jokic was. He was qlso q better athlete, shooter and passer. Jokic was bigger and stronger though.

As far as bird not reaching jokers scoring heights i don't what the hell your talking about. Jokic has never scored 29 q game. He did once in the payoffs which is 2 more than birds best but it's only because he shot a few more shots. Bird qlso did it while winning a chip while jokic did it in 2 rounds. Talk to me when jokic can scor 28 pts a game for a whole finals run. Not that that will ever happen
Okay.

You understand that there’s nothing on the court Bird could do that Jokic wouldn’t be encouraged to do?

But the vice versa is not true? Especially considering Jokic is on an uphill battle offensively as a giant human being. Yet his limitations don’t realistically exist.


Jokic seals guys like Gobert under the rim to finish, repeatedly. In a playoff series.

Jokic scores over bigs AND smalls better than Bird ever could. Why do you think that is? You can cop out of reality by just denying it again and again but it really won’t accomplish anything. Jokic is pretty much automatic on scoring on anyone smaller than him to any degree.

And no bigs are quick enough to recover from all his little fakes and footwork.


Which leads me to the reality that, per possession, and relative to the league this year and last years Jokic blows Bird the **** out in scoring. I don’t care about a random number you pull out of your ass to measure them as scorers. I mean seriously, 29 points? I’m supposed to take that seriously as a point?

I care more about who fart louder than just the raw PPG in a single playoff run by either player. And even if I cared, Jokic and Bird played at complete opposite paces, and Bird played shit loads of minutes in the playoffs.




Which leads to another big athletic advantage I’ve just noticed he has over Bird. Body control. Jokic is always under control of his body no matter what speed he goes at. His balance is very good. Which is a big reason he can finish, really finish at the rim with either hand with all these weird angles and even on a touch.

You’re talking about a guy in Bird who is actually not even a good finisher at the rim, to compare him to a guy in Jokic who casually scores as well as Kevin Durant, if not better right now, and can get any shot in the paint he wants at any time.

I’m glad you can actual see Jokic is a bigger human being than Bird. But to say they’re on the same level of ball handling just makes me not care about anything you say that’s more debateable(passing, mentality).


Oh and didn’t you say his handles were Luka level too? I forgot about that.

Ugh, just shut up.

[iamgine]

wait a second. I thought to be comparable to a legend you had to basically finish your career and already have a bunch of rings.. how can jokic be anywhere near bird. he's basically on curry 2015 pre ring post mvp status right now... duuuuuurrrrrr

That's greatness. We're comparing who's better.

For example, Deandre Ayton is much better than George Mikan. But Mikan is the much greater player.

[Round Mound]

Could Jokic do this play?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOA_RVETi_M