3ball throwing punches at LeBron stans

[AirBonner]

https://viralviralvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/Matrix-Neo-Fight-Agent-Smith-GIF.gif

:oldlol:

[outofstomach]

great movie btw. looking forward to seeing it in theaters, im really hoping they don’t screw up the universe but i have a feeling it won’t live up to any of the three films

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Looks like Kawhi during the 2019 playoffs

- Modern day Shaq\Kobe in Embiid\Buter? *blocks punches*

- 2 time MVP Giannis and modern day Wilt *blocks punches*

- 3 time MVP after this season and the greatest point guard ever Curry *blocks punches*

- Lead the playoffs in offensive rebounds

- Leads the playoffs in steals

- Score 732 points on 62% TS greatest total point\TS combination of all time

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi Game 7 vs. Denver

https://c.tenor.com/-vpK19xxu9cAAAAC/punch-air-ashtray.gif

[AirBonner]

Kawhi Game 7 vs. Denver

https://c.tenor.com/-vpK19xxu9cAAAAC/punch-air-ashtray.gif

:roll::roll::roll:

[SATAN]

Kawhi Game 7 vs. Denver

https://c.tenor.com/-vpK19xxu9cAAAAC/punch-air-ashtray.gif

:roll:

[TheCorporation]

https://viralviralvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/Matrix-Neo-Fight-Agent-Smith-GIF.gif

:oldlol:

Facts :roll:

[Full Court]

I kind of like 3ball because he has the Lebronies in a permanent meltdown, and no matter how hard they try they can't get under 3ball's skin.

:lebroncry:

[1987_Lakers]

I kind of like 3ball because he has the Lebronies in a permanent meltdown, and no matter how hard they try they can't get under 3ball's skin.

:lebroncry:

You haven't been here long then. I've seen 3ball snap at posters like RRR3 and SouBeach a couple of times. Also has been exposed multiple times for fabricating stats and flip flopping on players to help his agenda.

And who can forget his famous Oubre > Klay thread.

[RRR3]

Kawhi Game 7 vs. Denver

https://c.tenor.com/-vpK19xxu9cAAAAC/punch-air-ashtray.gif
:lol

[3ba11]

And who can forget his famous Oubre > Klay thread.





Honestly, if you don't have a few threads like that - wacky, off-the-wall predictions - then you aren't a real poster and simply think within the box provided to you by ESPN and Fox Sports.. You don't contribute to the evolution of humans.

Carry on

[1987_Lakers]

Honestly, if you don't have one of those, then you aren't a real poster and simply think within the box provided to you by ESPN and Fox Sports.

Carry on

If we were to take trolling away, nobody in this forum has ever said anything more dumb than Oubre > Klay in the history of this forum.

[3ba11]

If we were to take trolling away, nobody in this forum has ever said anything more dumb than Oubre > Klay in the history of this forum.


Yes, it was the goat troll

[1987_Lakers]

Yes, it was the goat troll

Keep telling yourself that. We all know it wasn't. :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Keep telling yourself that. We all know it wasn't. :oldlol:


You think that was the only one?... :kobe:

I throw bones to you guys all the time and you're still laps behind



:yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

You think that was the only one?... :kobe:

I throw bones to you guys all the time and you're still laps behind



:yaohappy:

The fact that you got defensive and responded to me bringing up that thread shows me you were dead serious about that topic and very embarrassed about it today.

:yaohappy:

[3ba11]

The fact that you got defensive and responded to me bringing up that thread shows me you were dead serious about that topic and very embarrassed about it today.

:yaohappy:


I still laugh about that thread - I know how dear you dub fans hold Klay

But I shit on 3-point shooters.. Always have.. always will.. they aren't basketball players (they're just 3-point shooters and the 3ball isn't real basketball)

[1987_Lakers]

I still laugh about that thread - I know how dear you dub fans hold Klay

But I shit on 3-point shooters.. Always have.. always will.. they aren't basketball players (they're just 3-point shooters and the 3ball isn't real basketball)

We know that, you in the past shitted on Curry for just being a "one dimensional 3 point shooter"

But for some odd reason you recently put Curry in your top 5 players ever list. Wonder why.

:yaohappy:

[3ba11]

We know that, you in the past shitted on Curry for just being a "one dimensional 3 point shooter"

But for some odd reason you recently put Curry in your top 5 players ever list. Wonder why.

:yaohappy:


Once I settled on official top 10 criteria, I realized that Curry qualified



Top 10 critieria:

1. No one that planned their destination is allowed - no one that learned how to team-hop - only guys that learned how to WIN (organic)

2. Players are highly-valued in the rankings if they won without equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, and therefore defeated maximum defensive attention (full burden), aka carry-job (10 ppg more than sidekick in Playoffs and Finals).

3. Rigid styles/skillsets are downgraded like 1-dimensional centers or ball-dominators, since they need super-team help and have weaker team ceilings/Finals records

[Phoenix]

great movie btw. looking forward to seeing it in theaters, im really hoping they don’t screw up the universe but i have a feeling it won’t live up to any of the three films

Not hard to top the sequels. The first movie, of course, is a legit all-timer.

[Phoenix]

Once I settled on official top 10 criteria, I realized that Curry qualified


[I]Top 10 critieria:

1. No one that planned their destination is allowed - no one that learned how to team-hop - only guys that learned how to WIN (organic)



Kobe team-hopped from Charlotte to LA before he ever played a NBA game.

[ShawkFactory]

Once I settled on official top 10 criteria, I realized that Curry qualified



Top 10 critieria:

1. No one that planned their destination is allowed - no one that learned how to team-hop - only guys that learned how to WIN (organic)

2. Players are highly-valued in the rankings if they won without equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, and therefore defeated maximum defensive attention (full burden), aka carry-job (10 ppg more than sidekick in Playoffs and Finals).

3. Rigid styles/skillsets are downgraded like 1-dimensional centers or ball-dominators, since they need super-team help and have weaker team ceilings/Finals records

Had to put Curry in to get Lebron out, is what you’re saying. Must have been a tough decision for you.

[3ba11]

Had to put Curry in to get Lebron out, is what you’re saying. Must have been a tough decision for you.


Actually it was pretty easy decision once I saw the benefits of having a legit top 10 that excluded LeFraud

[ShawkFactory]

Actually it was pretty easy decision once I saw the benefits of having a legit top 10 that excluded LeFraud

Right. You’re hatred for Lebron far outweighs anything else.

What was I thinking.

[3ba11]

Right. You’re hatred for Lebron far outweighs anything else.

What was I thinking.


Lebron isn't top 10 because he only learned to team-hop and never learned to win (organic), while he also isn't capable of defeating max defensive attention (full burden), aka he always had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for his Finals wins or various playoff runs..

Finally, his rigid style as a ball-dominator has poor teammate fits and doesn't allow the best strategy, which necessitates super-team talent but still yield low team ceilings/Finals records.

So Lebron isn't top 10 - MJ, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Curry, Duncan, Dirk, Kawhi, Hakeem, Giannis

(still working on that last one - after KD wins this year, I'll have to put him in there and break the "organic" rule due to his great team ceiling/Finals record/brand of ball)

[Phoenix]

Lebron isn't top 10 because he only learned to team-hop and never learned to win (organic), while he also isn't capable of defeating max defensive attention (full burden), aka he always had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for his Finals wins or various playoff runs..

Finally, his rigid style as a ball-dominator has poor teammate fits and doesn't allow the best strategy, which necessitates super-team talent but still yield low team ceilings/Finals records.

So Lebron isn't top 10 - MJ, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Curry, Duncan, Dirk, Kawhi, Hakeem, Giannis

(still working on that last one - after KD wins this year, I'll have to put him in there and break the "organic" rule due to his great team ceiling/Finals record/brand of ball)

If that ranking is in order, you had Giannis like 5th 2 weeks ago. Out of the players on the list only Curry and Kawhi are still active, so what did Giannis do to drop from 5th to 10th? Never mind that you said he was a Pippen level bum 3 weeks before winning the title.

Also, why would you have Russell in your top 10 when last week you said he was a one dimensional player in 2point ball? All the other players on your list played in 3point ball era which you consider better, ergo Russell shouldn't be ahead of those players based on your logic.

Also, why isn't Kawhi considered a team hopper? He hopped onto the 59 win Raptors, won a chip over an injured Warriors team, then hopped to the Clippers. He was literally on 3 different teams from 2018 to now.

You getting a bit senile, 3nutball?

[3ba11]

If that ranking is in order, you had Giannis like 5th 2 weeks ago. Out of the players on the list only Curry and Kawhi are still active, so what did Giannis do to drop from 5th to 10th? Never mind that you said he was a Pippen level bum 3 weeks before winning the title.





Learning how to win (organic) is the #1 criteria

So Giannis proved me wrong - he's the first center-guard in history and he's learned to manage that well enough to win with former losers like Jrue and Middleton (who he raised)






Also, why would you have Russell in your top 10 when last week you said he was a one dimensional player in 2point ball? All the other players on your list played in 3point ball era which you consider better, ergo Russell shouldn't be ahead of those players based on your logic.





Russell won 11 organic chips... but he isn't goat because he never defeated max defensive attention/max burden (the #2 criteria)






Also, why isn't Kawhi considered a team hopper? He hopped onto the 59 win Raptors, won a chip over an injured Warriors team, then hopped to the Clippers. He was literally on 3 different teams from 2018 to now...





Kawhi won organically once as FMVP before team-hopping, and he also proved that he can beat max defensive attention (max burden) by averaging 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals while winning chip

[Phoenix]

1)Learning how to win (organic) is the #1 criteria

So Giannis proved me wrong - he's the first center-guard in history and he's learned to manage that well enough to win with former losers like Jrue and Middleton (who he raised)






2)Russell won 11 organic chips... but he isn't goat because he never defeated max defensive attention






3)He won organically once as FMVP before team-hopping, and he also proved that he can beat max defensive attention (max burden) by averaging 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals while winning chip




Fixed

1) So one championship took him from a Pippen level bum to a top 5 GOAT, within the span of a month.

2)Based on your logic that 2point ball is worse than 3point ball, he shouldn't even be top 5. Your rules bucko....

3) Winning a Finals MVP in a season when he averaged 13ppg season/14ppg playoffs/18ppg finals shouldn't qualify one to be one of the top 10 players in the history of the NBA. And his 2nd chip gets thanos-snapped out of existence if KD plays the entire finals.

[3ba11]

1) So one championship took him from a Pippen level bum to a top 5 GOAT, within the span of a month.

2)Based on your logic that 2point ball is worse than 3point ball, he shouldn't even be top 5. Your rules bucko....

3) Winning a Finals MVP in a season when he averaged 13ppg season/14ppg playoffs/18ppg finals shouldn't qualify one to be one of the top 10 players in the history of the NBA. And his 2nd chip gets thanos-snapped out of existence if KD plays the entire finals.

1) Yes, Giannis and Curry both proved me wrong, while Lebron never did. I've always been right about Lebron.

2) My rules say the #1 criteria is knowing how to win (organic), and Russell has 11 organic rings.. He isn't goat though because he falls short at the #2 criteria (defeating max defensive attention)

3) Kawhi destroyed Lebron James for 3 straight games in the 14' Finals - if aliens landed on earth and watched the last 3 games, they would think Kawhi was the far better player on both sides of the ball... Then he beat an experienced, dominant version of Curry/Klay (31 and 26 ppg), while Lebron beat a 1st-timer, bed-wetting Curry/Klay (22 and 19 ppg), and benefitted from the Draymond suspension and an equal-scoring teammate closer (bailout)... Kawhi also dominated Giannis H2H

[000]

Lebron isn't top 10 because he only learned to team-hop and never learned to win (organic), while he also isn't capable of defeating max defensive attention (full burden), aka he always had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for his Finals wins or various playoff runs..

Finally, his rigid style as a ball-dominator has poor teammate fits and doesn't allow the best strategy, which necessitates super-team talent but still yield low team ceilings/Finals records.

So Lebron isn't top 10 - MJ, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Curry, Duncan, Dirk, Kawhi, Hakeem, Giannis

(still working on that last one - after KD wins this year, I'll have to put him in there and break the "organic" rule due to his great team ceiling/Finals record/brand of ball)
Kawhi got outscored in the Finals by Curry and also didn't carry the load (Siakam averaged 20). Replace him with Rick Barry.

[zeerghit]

3ball throwing punches:roll::roll:

[Phoenix]

1) Yes, Giannis and Curry both proved me wrong, while Lebron never did. I've always been right about Lebron.

2) My rules say the #1 criteria is knowing how to win (organic), and Russell has 11 organic rings.. He isn't goat though because he falls short at the #2 criteria (defeating max defensive attention)

3) Kawhi destroyed Lebron James for 3 straight games in the 14' Finals - if aliens landed on earth and watched the last 3 games, they would think Kawhi was the far better player on both sides of the ball... Then he beat an experienced, dominant version of Curry/Klay (31 and 26 ppg), while Lebron beat a 1st-timer, bed-wetting Curry/Klay (22 and 19 ppg), and benefitted from the Draymond suspension and an equal-scoring teammate closer (bailout)... Kawhi also dominated Giannis H2H

1) Saying a single championship, won amidst an injury riddled playoffs, catapults Giannis from a 'Pippen level bum' to a top 10 GOAT is grounds for being committed. No single championship, won under any situation, should catapult someone into top 10 status that wasn't close to it before. That's not how it works, and its not how it's ever worked.

2) Your rules are bullshit. Previously you said being the best player on a championship team is the main qualifier. That's in your own post history( amidst thousands of other contradictions). You just shift the qualifiers when the door is slammed on one of your dumb-ass arguments. Once again, if Russell has no case for GOAT because he didn't draw defensive attention like some of the others, that same logic applies to some of the players you've ranked below Russell, not just MJ.

3) He destroyed Lebron in 3 straight games? Lebron averaged 27ppg on 55% from games 3 to 5. Your Warriors analogy is also incorrect because the roster around Klay and Steph in 2019 was worse than the roster around them in 2016. Klay himself got injured during the 2019 finals, compounded by KD's injury. And it still took Kawhi 6 games. Literally gift-wrapped a title when KD went down.

[ShawkFactory]

1) Saying a single championship, won amidst an injury riddled playoffs, catapults Giannis from a 'Pippen level bum' to a top 10 GOAT is grounds for being committed. No single championship, won under any situation, should catapult someone into top 10 status that wasn't close to it before. That's not how it works, and its not how it's ever worked.

2) Your rules are bullshit. Previously you said being the best player on a championship team is the main qualifier. That's in your own post history( amidst thousands of other contradictions). You just shift the qualifiers when the door is slammed on one of your dumb-ass arguments. Once again, if Russell has no case for GOAT because he didn't draw defensive attention like some of the others, that same logic applies to some of the players you've ranked below Russell, not just MJ.

3) He destroyed Lebron in 3 straight games? Lebron averaged 27ppg on 55% from games 3 to 5. Your Warriors analogy is also incorrect because the roster around Klay and Steph in 2019 was worse than the roster around them in 2016. Klay himself got injured during the 2019 finals, compounded by KD's injury. And it still took Kawhi 6 games. Literally gift-wrapped a title when KD went down.

At least he admits that they're his rules.

It's like trying to play Monopoly with a 7 year old

[Full Court]

At least he admits that they're his rules.

It's like trying to play Monopoly with a 7 year old

The whole GOAT thing is completely subjective anyway. Everyone has their own rules. His are just as good or not good as anyone else's on here.

[Phoenix]

The whole GOAT thing is completely subjective anyway. Everyone has their own rules. His are just as good or not good as anyone else's on here.

Of course. The problem is he often doesn't follow his own rules, and sidesteps whenever you use *his* logic against him.

[Baller789]

Of course. The problem is he often doesn't follow his own rules, and sidesteps whenever you use *his* logic against him.

Same as his oppositions aka Lebrontards.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[ELITEpower23]

If we were to take trolling away, nobody in this forum has ever said anything more dumb than Oubre > Klay in the history of this forum.

3ball has zero credibility

[90sgoat]

great movie btw. looking forward to seeing it in theaters, im really hoping they don’t screw up the universe but i have a feeling it won’t live up to any of the three films

You can be absolutely certain it will be shit.

Matrix the original came out in 1999.

Let me list a few other films that came out in 1999:


Matrix
Fight Club
Eyes Wide Shut
Magnolia
Office Space

And a shit load of other great films, but that's not the point.

The point is that in 1 year you had 5 films that completely exposed the elites and told it exactly like it was. Exactly like what modern life is like. It told you how, why and who is behind it.

I mean, look at that list. Look at it.

That will never, ever happen again.

We live in a society that is now completely controlled, we are almost as controlled as China in what is allowed to be said, just using different methods.

That means the new Matrix will be shit. Absolute shit.

It will have nothing of the original. It will say something about racism, transgenderes blah blah.

It will NOT do what the original did, which was tell a generation that they were being lied to, that they were being controlled.

[Phoenix]

Ironically I watched Office Space this morning.

[Baller789]

i have zero credibility
Yes

[3ba11]

1) Saying a single championship, won amidst an injury riddled playoffs, catapults Giannis from a 'Pippen level bum' to a top 10 GOAT is grounds for being committed. No single championship, won under any situation, should catapult someone into top 10 status that wasn't close to it before. That's not how it works, and its not how it's ever worked.

2) Your rules are bullshit. Previously you said being the best player on a championship team is the main qualifier. That's in your own post history( amidst thousands of other contradictions). You just shift the qualifiers when the door is slammed on one of your dumb-ass arguments. Once again, if Russell has no case for GOAT because he didn't draw defensive attention like some of the others, that same logic applies to some of the players you've ranked below Russell, not just MJ.

3) He destroyed Lebron in 3 straight games? Lebron averaged 27ppg on 55% from games 3 to 5. Your Warriors analogy is also incorrect because the roster around Klay and Steph in 2019 was worse than the roster around them in 2016. Klay himself got injured during the 2019 finals, compounded by KD's injury. And it still took Kawhi 6 games. Literally gift-wrapped a title when KD went down.


1) Fair enough but I already said the last spot in the rankings (Giannis) was the 1 weak link..

2) Now here's where you're wrong... I said that other people (the mainstream) view Jordan as goat for his ring count as the best player.. Otoh, my criteria says that you have to know how to WIN first (organic) before you can accumulate a ring count with integrity.. And being able to defeat maximum defensive attention (max burden) also bolsters ring integrity, hence the 2nd criteria (no 1b teammates)

3) If Lebron and Kawhi switched places in the 2014 Finals, the Spurs wouldn't be able to play the equal-opportunity, ball movement system that yielded all those open, unrushed and in-rhythm looks (high-efficiency looks).. Instead, they would've run Lebron-ball where HOF teammates become underwhelming, unsatisfying role players and the team looks like it needs more help all the time.. So when we're talking about the #1 options that dictate the team's style of play, the WAY the player produces is almost as important as how much they produce.

4) The roster around Curry/Klay wasn't worse in 2019 Finals because KD dropped 12 points in 12 minutes, which won a game, and the Warriors also had Dray for the whole series with no disruption, plus guys like DeMarcus Cousins getting 15/5 in each closeout game.

[90sgoat]

Ironically I watched Office Space this morning.

1999 repeating in 2019.

[SouBeachTalents]

It is weird that so many movies in completely different genres like American Beauty, Fight Club, Office Space & The Matrix all dealing with similar themes all came out in the same year.

[90sgoat]

It is weird that so many movies in completely different genres like American Beauty, Fight Club, Office Space & The Matrix all dealing with similar themes all came out in the same year.

Probably because of the Y2K thing.

It was a big deal the turn of the millennia back then. It felt huge. It had all kinds of effects on art and people as I remember it.

[Phoenix]

3) If Lebron and Kawhi switched places in the 2014 Finals, the Spurs wouldn't be able to play the equal-opportunity, ball movement system that yielded all those open, unrushed and in-rhythm looks (high-efficiency looks).. Instead, they would've run Lebron-ball where HOF teammates become underwhelming, unsatisfying role players and the team looks like it needs more help all the time.. So when we're talking about the #1 options that dictate the team's style of play, the WAY the player produces is almost as important as how much they produce.

4) The roster around Curry/Klay wasn't worse in 2019 Finals because KD dropped 12 points in 12 minutes, which won a game, and the Warriors also had Dray for the whole series with no disruption, plus guys like DeMarcus Cousins getting 15/5 in each closeout game.

3)If Lebron and Kawhi switched places in 2014 the Heat aren't getting to the finals, so literally all of this is moot. You're pretending that 2014 Kawhi was the guy we've seen the past 4-5 years when healthy.

4)Nah, the 2016 team had a better version of Igudola,Livingston, Barbosa, Bogut. I'd take the 2016 role players over a past prime Igodola, Cousins(8ppg in the finals)) Looney, and Livingston was at the end of his career(literally retired after the finals). KD going down gave the chip to the Raptors on a platter.

[Phoenix]

It is weird that so many movies in completely different genres like American Beauty, Fight Club, Office Space & The Matrix all dealing with similar themes all came out in the same year.

As 90sgoat said, there was definitely a 'peak behind the curtain' philosophy to these movies brought about by the coming turn of the millennium. I remember walking out of the Matrix with a literal Keanu style 'whoa'...and not even the more subdued Neo version but the wide-eyed Bill and Ted variety.... looking around and thinking 'imagine if that shit is actually real'. Good times.....

[Phoenix]

Same as his oppositions aka Lebrontards.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The other side comes up with their bullshit as well, but it's consistent bullshit and they follow their rules, as contrived as they can be. 3ball doesn't, to the point of parody.

[Baller789]

The other side comes up with their bullshit as well, but it's consistent bullshit and they follow their rules, as contrived as they can be. 3ball doesn't, to the point of parody.

Nah dude, they frequently move the goalposts as much as 3ball.

Difference is 3ball is usually by himself whereas the Branstans usually have an orgy party.

[Phoenix]

Nah dude, they frequently move the goalposts as much as 3ball.

Difference is 3ball is usually by himself whereas the Branstans usually have an orgy party.

I've had enough debates with 3ball recently where his own logic from one thread to another thread in the same day is different and when you call him on it, he moves the post again. Maybe the other side does it too, but their opinions that Lebron is the GOAT and here's why are far less outrageous than some of the claims 3ball makes. You've got one side saying Lebron is GOAT, and you've got this lonewolf saying Lebron isn't even a top 10 player. Which position, held at gunpoint, sounds more reasonable to you?

If anything, the 'Lebron is GOAT' crew seem more interested in deconstructing the 'MJ is GOD' narrative. And I say this as someone who has had MJ as my favorite player for 30 years.

[SouBeachTalents]

I've had enough debates with 3ball recently where his own logic from one thread to another thread in the same day is different and when you call him on it, he moves the post again. Maybe the other side does it too, but their opinions that Lebron is the GOAT and here's why are far less outrageous than some of the claims 3ball makes. You've got one side saying Lebron is GOAT, and you've got this lonewolf saying Lebron isn't even a top 10 player. Which position, held at gunpoint, sounds more reasonable to you?

If anything, the 'Lebron is GOAT' crew seem more interested in deconstructing the 'MJ is GOD' narrative. And I say this as someone who has had MJ as my favorite player for 30 years.
It's just like politics, with false equivalencies and whataboutism. Posters who obsessively talk about and hype up any one player, while tearing down everyone else, are all garbage, even if it's a player no one really gives a shit about (HBK).

But 3ball really does stand alone, both in sheer volume and how clownish his arguments are. Anyone saying other posters are as bad, I guarantee they can't find anything as ridiculous as 3ball claiming Giannis is overrated trash, then calling him a top 10 player of all time literally a couple months later. Ditto with Curry, calling him the most overrated player of all time, then claiming he's a top 5 player of all time only a couple months later. That's not even mentioning, in addition to those two, having Kawhi & Dirk top 10, but not LeBron, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq & Magic. It really is indefensibly stupid, as you said, the way he moves the goalposts and immediately contradicts himself really makes him seem like a parody.

[Phoenix]

It's just like politics, with false equivalencies and whataboutism. Posters who obsessively talk about and hype up any one player, while tearing down everyone else, are all garbage, even if it's a player no one really gives a shit about (HBK).

But 3ball really does stand alone, both in sheer volume and how clownish his arguments are. Anyone saying other posters are as bad, I guarantee they can't find anything as ridiculous as 3ball claiming Giannis is overrated trash, then calling him a top 10 player of all time literally a couple months later. Ditto with Curry, calling him the most overrated player of all time, then claiming he's a top 5 player of all time only a couple months later. That's not even mentioning, in addition to those two, having Kawhi & Dirk top 10, but not LeBron, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq & Magic. It really is indefensibly stupid, as you said, the way he moves the goalposts and immediately contradicts himself really makes him seem like a parody.

Agreed. There's a difference between someone arguing for Lebron( and these are the reasons why, reasonable or far-fetched) and shit like the bolded which are so contradictory it's bordering on multiple personality disorder. There's just no way a normally functioning person can swing from one end of the spectrum to the other like displayed here. Yes, new evidence can shift opinions, minds can change, but the bolded is an entirely different beast.

[Baller789]

I've had enough debates with 3ball recently where his own logic from one thread to another thread in the same day is different and when you call him on it, he moves the post again. Maybe the other side does it too, but their opinions that Lebron is the GOAT and here's why are far less outrageous than some of the claims 3ball makes. You've got one side saying Lebron is GOAT, and you've got this lonewolf saying Lebron isn't even a top 10 player. Which position, held at gunpoint, sounds more reasonable to you?

If anything, the 'Lebron is GOAT' crew seem more interested in deconstructing the 'MJ is GOD' narrative. And I say this as someone who has had MJ as my favorite player for 30 years.

Dude, Branstans have been saying

Jordan=Derozan for while now.
And Scottie Pippen is a better player than Jordan

Same $h!+

It's just the way Branstans propup their fave player. It probably doesn't seem so consistent because there are so many of them, like cockroaches.

[Phoenix]

Dude, Branstans have been saying

Jordan=Derozan for while now.
And Scottie Pippen is a better player than Jordan

Same $h!+

It's just the way Branstans propup their fave player. It probably doesn't seem so consistent because there are so many of them, like cockroaches.

Hence why I said both sides bullshit. Difference is, the Lebronstan saying 'MJ=Derozan' don't deviate from that take and I reckon they're trollin on purpose because they know it ruffles feathers. 3ball today will say Giannis is a Pippen level bum. Then he wins a championship in an injury-plagued playoff run, then it's Giannis is a top 5 GOAT. Even worse is Curry, because he calls him the most overrated player ever. Then, a few months later.....without Curry not achieving any further accolades like an MVP or championship to further bolster his legacy over, he says he's a top 10 GOAT. I don't see how you equate what 3ball does with what the others do.

[Elosha]

I remember when 3ball first started posting on ISH many years ago, at least using that name. He started by posting a number of relatively rare dunk highlights from Jordan and had some interesting points about his superior ability to finish and get to the rim compared to many modern players. His approach was relatively restrained back then. He was clearly a Jordan fan but not over-the-top, and raised some fairly solid points. But over the years he's gone off the deep end for sure, and I state that as a Jordan fan as well. You can be a Jordan fan or LeBron fan, or any other fan, without shitting all over every other all-time great. 3ball, and also a bunch of the LeBron fans on this forum should remember that.

[Airupthere]

I remember when 3ball first started posting on ISH many years ago, at least using that name. He started by posting a number of relatively rare dunk highlights from Jordan and had some interesting points about his superior ability to finish and get to the rim compared to many modern players. His approach was relatively restrained back then. He was clearly a Jordan fan but not over-the-top, and raised some fairly solid points. But over the years he's gone off the deep end for sure, and I state that as a Jordan fan as well. You can be a Jordan fan or LeBron fan, or any other fan, without shitting all over every other all-time great. 3ball, and also a bunch of the LeBron fans on this forum should remember that.

If youre talking about over the top jordan fans and lebron fans, the main page primarily consists of 3ball, then a host of multiple bransexual account created threads. Bransexuals troll more.

[Phoenix]

You can be a Jordan fan or LeBron fan, or any other fan, without shitting all over every other all-time great. 3ball, and also a bunch of the LeBron fans on this forum should remember that.

That sentiment should be bronzed and stickied. Exactly.

[Elosha]

If youre talking about over the top jordan fans and lebron fans, the main page primarily consists of 3ball, then a host of multiple bransexual account created threads. Bransexuals troll more.

In general I agree. And I think 3ball's posting is somewhat reactionary to the LeBron trolls, and vice versa. but it is what it is, and just adds a bunch of stupid and worthless content to ISH.

Still, his constant flip flops on ATG lists, based on his evolving and somewhat contorted philosophy of the game, doesn't speak well to 3ball's overall acuity.

[Baller789]

Well it without 3ball, the place would be basically runover by lebron stans.

It also helps to keep forum traffic up.

[Elosha]

Well it without 3ball, the place would be basically runover by lebron stans.

It also helps to keep forum traffic up.

there's some definite truth to that, :lol which is probably a sad commentary on the internet and social media in general.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Posters who shit on past eras aren't really fans of the sport.

They're fanboys. Clowns who think basketball was invented after they started watching. :lol They couldn't care less about the games history.

This forum is a complete dump by the way. Every topic here is basically a faction battle.

[3ba11]

3)If Lebron and Kawhi switched places in 2014 the Heat aren't getting to the finals, so literally all of this is moot. You're pretending that 2014 Kawhi was the guy we've seen the past 4-5 years when healthy.





This is where your memory is short about that conference or you simply misperceive/deny reality about the weakest conference in NBA history.

Lebron only needed 22.8 ppg in the 2014 ECF, while Wade averaged 20.. You don't seem to realize that without Lebron's super-teams, 1-star teams like Paul George's Pacers or the IT Celtics would've been winning the East just like the 1-star teams that won BEFORE lebron's super-teams (Iverson, Kidd, Dwight)..

So Kawhi easily makes the 14' Finals with Wade/Bosh/Allen because those guys probably make the Finals without Kawhi.. Fossil Wade nearly made the ECF in 2016 as a star because it was a trash conference.. The 2000's East is the only conference in history that was won by a bunch of 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking the deck)..

Ultimately, Lebron's Finals streak only began AFTER the "decision" to form super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning..

[Phoenix]

Lebron only needed 22.8 ppg in the ECF while Wade averaged 20.. You don't seem to realize that without Lebron's super-teams, 1-star teams like Paul George's Pacers or the IT Celtics would've been winning the East just like the 1-star teams that won BEFORE lebron's super-teams (Iverson, Kidd, Dwight)..

So Kawhi easily makes the 14' Finals with Wade/Bosh/Allen because those guys probably make the Finals without Kawhi.. Fossil Wade nearly made the ECF in 2016 as a star because it was a trash conference.. The 2000's East is the only conference in history that was won by a bunch of 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking the deck).

Apparently the 90s east was as well, since you clearly don't consider Pippen a star. Which, on that note, why do you refer to the 90s as a 'two star' format on one hand, while on the other telling us how Robert Horry had higher finals GmSc than Pippen did? Is Robert Horry a star? If not, then surely Pippen with his lower finals GmSc can't be either. So the 90's featured MJ as the lone 'star' winning titles against Drexler, Kemp and Payton, and Malone.....4 of his 6 titles, and all those aforementioned names had lower GmSc than Horry did in 95.

Since you boil everything down to PPG, Lebron averaged 30ppg in the first and second round in 2014. If you're simply inserting Kahwi into the equation as a scorer he wasn't producing enough. Hell, even with Lebron scoring 30ppg against the Nets in the ECSFs, the Heat only averaged 5ppg more than Brooklyn. Kawhi, a 14ppg in 2014 devoid of any playmaking skill, isn't replacing Lebron and the Heat 'easily' make the finals. They probably just about win 45 games that year which puts them out of the top 4 seeds. You forget that Wade was being load-managed in 2014.

[RRR3]

Apparently the 90s east was as well, since you clearly don't consider Pippen a star. Which, on that note, why do you refer to the 90s as a 'two star' format on one hand, while on the other telling us how Robert Horry had higher finals GmSc than Pippen did? Is Robert Horry a star? If not, then surely Pippen with his lower finals GmSc can't be either. So the 90's featured MJ as the lone 'star' winning titles against Drexler, Kemp and Payton, and Malone.....4 of his 6 titles, and all those aforementioned names had lower GmSc than Horry did in 95.

Since you boil everything down to PPG, Lebron averaged 30ppg in the first and second round in 2014. If you're simply inserting Kahwi into the equation as a scorer he wasn't producing enough. Hell, even with Lebron scoring 30ppg against the Nets in the ECSFs, the Heat only averaged 5ppg more than Brooklyn. Kawhi, a 14ppg in 2014 devoid of any playmaking skill, isn't replacing Lebron and the Heat 'easily' make the finals. They probably just about win 45 games that year which puts them out of the top 4 seeds. You forget that Wade was being load-managed in 2014.
He’s also retarded enough to think Wade was a superstar or even close in 2014 lmfaoo.

[3ba11]

Since you boil everything down to PPG, Lebron averaged 30ppg in the first and second round in 2014. If you're simply inserting Kahwi into the equation as a scorer he wasn't producing enough. Hell, even with Lebron scoring 30ppg against the Nets in the ECSFs, the Heat only averaged 5ppg more than Brooklyn. Kawhi, a 14ppg in 2014 devoid of any playmaking skill, isn't replacing Lebron and the Heat 'easily' make the finals. They probably just about win 45 games that year which puts them out of the top 4 seeds.





Last 3 Games of 2014 NBA Finals


KAWHI (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog/2014#56-58-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs)'..... 23.7.. 9.2.. 2.3.. 1.7 tov.. 2.0 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PORound=4&LastNGames=3) time of poss.. 71 team assist.. 23.6 gmsc.. +57
LEBRON (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2014#156-158-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs).... 27.0.. 7.7.. 4.7.. 3.7 tov.. 7.6 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PORound=4&LastNGames=3) time of poss.. 44 team assist.. 21.7 gmsc.. -58


So Kawhi destroyed Lebron with comparable raw stats and FAR superior teammate-elevation stats (time of poss, team assists, plus/minus, assisted rate)

Ultimately, Kawhi ascended to a superior style/level of play in the 2014 Finals and left Lebron's ball-domination in the dust..

We don't give Westbrook props for westbrooking so why would we give Lebron credit for his record losing stats?.. It isn't like he averaged 44 ppg and set the playoff scoring record like 86' Jordan - that would've WON this series, or his 41 from the 93' Finals in a slow-paced series.






You forget that Wade was being load-managed in 2014.





Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat:

Playoffs

14' WADE'...... 18.7 PER... 0.086 WS/48... 28.2 pts per 100.. 106 ortg.. equal-scoring partner to Lebron in ECF
93' PIPPEN..... 16.9 PER... 0.083 WS/48... 26.2 pts per 100.. 102 ortg.. always carried by Jordan


Furthermore, 13' Wade was superior across the board to 93' Pippen (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), so Lebron always had more sidekick help on winning title runs than Jordan, while also having a 3rd all-star teammate.. Bosh was an 11-time all-star at 3rd option, which destroys anyone that Jordan had at 3rd option.. Bosh was a superior talent to Pippen but simply didn't land alongside the GOAT like Pippen did.

And Lebron has always had more help because he entered the league with the East all-star center on his team but barely won 40 games.. He needed to add his opponent's sidekick to make the 06' Playoffs (a 22/5/5 all-defender acquicision).

[Phoenix]

Last 3 Games of 2014 NBA Finals


KAWHI (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog/2014#56-58-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs)'..... 23.7.. 9.2.. 2.3.. 1.7 tov.. 2.0 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PORound=4&LastNGames=3) time of poss.. 71 team assist.. 23.6 gmsc.. +57
LEBRON (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2014#156-158-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs).... 27.0.. 7.7.. 4.7.. 3.7 tov.. 7.6 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PORound=4&LastNGames=3) time of poss.. 44 team assist.. 21.7 gmsc.. -58


So Kawhi destroyed Lebron with comparable raw stats and FAR superior teammate-elevation stats (time of poss, team assists, plus/minus, assisted rate)

Ultimately, Kawhi ascended to a superior style/level of play in the 2014 Finals and left Lebron's ball-domination in the dust..

We don't give Westbrook props for westbrooking so why would we give Lebron credit for his record losing stats?.. It isn't like he averaged 44 ppg and set the playoff scoring record like 86' Jordan - that would've WON this series, or his 41 from the 93' Finals in a slow-paced series.






Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat:

Playoffs

14' WADE'...... 18.7 PER... 0.086 WS/48... 28.2 pts per 100.. 106 ortg.. equal-scoring partner to Lebron in ECF
93' PIPPEN..... 16.9 PER... 0.083 WS/48... 26.2 pts per 100.. 102 ortg.. always carried by Jordan


Furthermore, 13' Wade was superior across the board to 93' Pippen (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), so Lebron always had more sidekick help on winning title runs than Jordan, while also having a 3rd all-star teammate.. Bosh was an 11-time all-star at 3rd option, which destroys anyone that Jordan had at 3rd option.. Bosh was a superior talent to Pippen but simply didn't land alongside the GOAT like Pippen did.

And Lebron has always had more help because he entered the league with the East all-star center on his team but barely won 40 games.. He needed to add his opponent's sidekick to make the 06' Playoffs (a 22/5/5 all-defender acquicision).

1) Kawhi wasn't the focal point of the Heats defense, and still got outscored by Lebron. Lebron was basically the only Heat player that the Spurs needed to worry about in that finals. Nobody has ever destroyed anyone while getting outscored and out-assisted. What Wade produces based on some per 100 stat is irrelevant. That stat doesn't factor in things like attrition, fatigue, injury and assumes the player production remains consistent. What is relevant is what was actually produced, and Wade scored 18ppg to Lebron's 28ppg over the 2014 playoffs, and 15ppg to Lebron's 28 in the finals.

2) Wade was load-managed in 2014. None of that drivel going on about Pippen( not related to anything being discussed here, but you managed to shoe-horn him in anyway. Shocker.) undermines that basic fact. Wade was 15/4/3 on 44%. Nice try trying to hide his finals numbers in there by using his overall playoff stats, when it's the 2014 finals we're talking about. BTW, since you like GmSc you'll be interested to know that Wade's in the 2014 finals was 7.9. Pippen's was never lower than 13( in 1998).

[3ba11]

1) Kawhi wasn't the focal point of the Heats defense, and still got outscored by Lebron. Lebron was basically the only Heat player that the Spurs needed to worry about in that finals. Nobody has ever destroyed anyone while getting outscored and out-assisted.

2) Wade was load-managed in 2014. None of that drivel going on about Pippen( not related to anything being discussed here, but you managed to shoe-horn him in anyway. Shocker.) undermines that basic fact. Wade was 15/4/3 on 44%. Nice try trying to hide his finals numbers in there by using his overall playoff stats, when it's the 2014 finals we're talking about. BTW, since you like GmSc you'll be interested to know that Wade's in the 2014 finals was 7.9. Pippen's was never lower than 13( in 1998).


Lebron should get knocked for being a westbrooker and his stats similarly ignored like westbrook's are.

Instead there's a double standard, which allows Lebron to avoid blame for any loss due to stats, regardless of how severe the loss is (even record amount).

In addition to the losing westbrook style (only 2/4 with wade/bosh), Lebron should get knocked for only dropping 28 in a record blowout - again, the 40-45 that Jordan routinely dropped against the best comp would've won this series.

Ultimately, Kawhi's scoring deficit means the same as Lebron's scoring deficit to Antawn Jamison in the 2006 1st Round (another 5 game blowout) - Lebron still outplayed Antawn despite Antawn's scoring advantage - maybe if Antawn had dropped some ridiculous number instead of a relatively pedestrian 30, we'd feel more sorry for him losing.

[Phoenix]

Lebron should get knocked for being a westbrooker and his stats similarly ignored like westbrook's are.

Instead there's a double standard, which allows Lebron to avoid blame for any loss due to stats, regardless of how severe the loss is (even record amount).

In addition to the losing westbrook style (only 2/4 with wade/bosh), Lebron should get knocked for only dropping 28 in a record blowout - again, the 40-45 that Jordan routinely dropped against the best comp would've won this series.

Ultimately, Kawhi's scoring deficit means the same as Lebron's scoring deficit to Antawn Jamison in the 2006 1st Round (another 5 game blowout) - Lebron still outplayed Antawn despite Antawn's scoring advantage - maybe if Antawn had dropped some ridiculous number instead of a relatively pedestrian 30, we'd feel more sorry for him losing.

Cute, but a long-winded non-answer. How do you explain Wade's 7.9 GmSc and hype up his 2014 performance while shitting on Scottie having GmSc metrics double that for most of his finals? You used that metric to say that Horry shat on Pippen, so now explain how the same metric results in 2014 finals Wade shitting on any of Scottie's finals.

[FilmyCogTurner]

The whole GOAT thing is completely subjective anyway. Everyone has their own rules. His are just as good or not good as anyone else's on here.

It's not subjective at all. Everyone has their own criteria of what they believe to be key characteristics to the GOAT debate and any fan with a shed of intelligence should be able to discern how much value or weight those characteristics possess, thus determining who is the best basketball player of all time.

[3ba11]

Cute, but a long-winded non-answer. How do you explain Wade's 7.9 GmSc and hype up his 2014 performance while shitting on Scottie having GmSc metrics double that for most of his finals? You used that metric to say that Horry shat on Pippen, so now explain how the same metric results in 2014 finals Wade shitting on any of Scottie's finals.


The issue with Lebron's 2014 Finals compared to Jordan is that the failure to reach expected team ceiling is why the Heat lost to the Spurs.. There's no excuse for the Heat having a weak underdog that can't destroy the Spurs with that talent.. Only a poor brand of ball hurt the team by reducing teammates to spot-up roles and preventing a juggernaut #1 offense that could run teams off the court.. It defeats the purpose of having 3 stars if 1 of them is reduced to role player (bosh) and therefore can't respond when Wade is off.. This failure to reach expected team ceiling is why they lost to the Mavs and Spurs, so that's on Lebron and the inferior strategy that his skillset employs (ball-dominance).




Cute, but a long-winded non-answer. How do you explain Wade's 7.9 GmSc and hype up his 2014 performance while shitting on Scottie having GmSc metrics double that for most of his finals? You used that metric to say that Horry shat on Pippen, so now explain how the same metric results in 2014 finals Wade shitting on any of Scottie's finals.


Lebron needed a carry-job but he can't carry the scoring load in the Finals and he can't beat good teams with bed-wetting teammates (never beat top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick).

Lebron can't carry the load because his high scoring is too ball-dominant to beat good teams (09'), while his jumpshooting efficiency suffers at carry-job volume (15')... It simply isn't optimal for Lebron's spotty-shooting, ball-dominance to score too much - he literally loses if he scores to much, smh..

So Lebron needed average around 40 and carry the 14' Heat, but he's never done that and isn't capable of winning that way like Jordan was..

Ultimately, Lebron needed equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs or Finals, so he never defeated maximum defensive attention - any period without facing max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Btw, Wade shares production with a 3rd star teammate, while Pippen had the 2nd option role all to himself - so Pippen always has a built-in advantage over most opposing sidekicks (especially in the Finals where the Bulls faced more stacked teams with 3rd and 4th scorers).

However, Pippen's worst-ever true shooting in the 93' and 96-98' Playoffs confirms that he couldn't handle the 2nd option load all to himself.. His efficiency was below league-average every playoff run of his career except 89-91'

[Phoenix]

The issue with Lebron's 2014 Finals compared to Jordan is that the failure to reach expected team ceiling is why the Heat lost to the Spurs.. There's no excuse for the Heat having a weak underdog that can't destroy the Spurs with that talent.. Only a poor brand of ball hurt the team by reducing teammates to spot-up roles and preventing a juggernaut #1 offense that could run teams off the court.. It defeats the purpose of having 3 stars if 1 of them is reduced to role player (bosh) and therefore can't respond when Wade is off.. This failure to reach expected team ceiling is why they lost to the Mavs and Spurs, so that's on Lebron and the inferior strategy that his skillset employs (ball-dominance).






Lebron needed a carry-job but he can't carry the scoring load in the Finals and he can't beat good teams with bed-wetting teammates (never beat top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick).

Lebron can't carry the load because his high scoring is too ball-dominant to beat good teams (09'), while his jumpshooting efficiency suffers at carry-job volume (15')... It simply isn't optimal for Lebron's spotty-shooting, ball-dominance to score too much - he literally loses if he scores to much, smh..

So Lebron needed average around 40 and carry the 14' Heat, but he's never done that and isn't capable of winning that way like Jordan was..

Ultimately, Lebron needed equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs or Finals, so he never defeated maximum defensive attention - any period without facing max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Btw, Wade shares production with a 3rd star teammate, while Pippen had the 2nd option role all to himself - so Pippen always has a built-in advantage over most opposing sidekicks (especially in the Finals where the Bulls faced more stacked teams with 3rd and 4th scorers).

However, Pippen's worst-ever true shooting in the 93' and 96-98' Playoffs confirms that he couldn't handle the 2nd option load all to himself.. His efficiency was below league-average every playoff run of his career except 89-91'

More bullshit. I skimmed through your post just to see the same repeated rhetoric. Bosh in the 2014 finals averaged 14/5. That's not 'third star' performance. Wade averaged 15/4/3. That's not 'second star' performance.

You ever gonna explain why 95 Horry had a higher GmSc than Drexler in 92, Kemp and Payton in 96, and Malone in 97 and 98? You throw up these long winded walls of drivel, hoping I don't notice your failure to directly reply to those little inconvenient statistical anomalies that make your little GmSc rhetoric fall flat on its ass.

[3ba11]

More bullshit. I skimmed through your post just to see the same repeated rhetoric. Bosh in the 2014 finals averaged 14/5. That's not 'third star' performance. Wade averaged 15/4/3. That's not 'second star' performance.

You ever gonna explain why 95 Horry had a higher GmSc than Drexler in 92, Kemp and Payton in 96, and Malone in 97 and 98? You throw up these long winded walls of drivel, hoping I don't notice your failure to directly reply to those little inconvenient statistical anomalies that make your little GmSc rhetoric fall flat on its ass.


Is prime Bosh a 14/5 player?

Of course not.. Neither is prime Love.. They were simply reduced to role player status under Lebron, so they couldn't average 20 or dominate when needed like other 3rd options (Klay, Manu, Jrue, Ray Allen, Worthy and more).. Lebron couldn't elevate them or allow them to play to capacity like other guys did with star 3rd options.

So you're just ignoring the historical record of Lebron's skillset reducing any teammate that wasn't already an elite shooter - that's a pretty narrow range of players that don't get cratered alongside him, which demonstrates how narrow his westbrooking skillset is - he's just a bigger westbrook and therefore needs exceptional supporting talent to offset a weak brand of ball.

And again, anyone with 3+ Finals appearances played better than Horry, except Pippen, who couldn't match Horry in 6 tries.. So only Pippen is below Horry, while everyone else with any material sample size was capable of playing better than Horry.. Horry is just another barometer that Pippen couldn't reach, while anyone else decent could.. Btw, Pippen has 2 series outside the 1st Round where he matched peak horry's gamescore - he's the ONLY guy that reached Horry-level so infrequently (basically never).. Btw, Drexler has 2 Finals above Horry, while Pippen is 0/6.. lol

[Phoenix]

1)Is prime Bosh a 14/5 player?

Of course not.. Neither is prime Love.. They were simply reduced to role player status under Lebron, so they couldn't average 20 or dominate when needed like other 3rd options (Klay, Manu, Jrue, Ray Allen, Worthy and more).. Lebron couldn't elevate them or allow them to play to capacity like other guys did with star 3rd options.

2)So you're just ignoring the historical record of Lebron's skillset reducing any teammate that wasn't already an elite shooter - that's a pretty narrow range of players that don't get cratered alongside him, which demonstrates how narrow his westbrooking skillset is - he's just a bigger westbrook and therefore needs exceptional supporting talent to offset a weak brand of ball.

2)And again, anyone with 3+ Finals appearances played better than Horry, except Pippen, who couldn't match Horry in 6 tries.. So only Pippen is below Horry, while everyone else with any material sample size was capable of playing better than Horry.. Horry is just another barometer that Pippen couldn't reach, while anyone else decent could.. Btw, Pippen has 2 series outside the 1st Round where he matched peak horry's gamescore - he's the ONLY guy that reached Horry-level so infrequently (basically never).. Btw, Drexler has 2 Finals above Horry, while Pippen is 0/6.. lol

1)Prime Bosh was a 24/10 guy on a mediocre Raptors team. Love was 26/13 on a mediocre Wolves team. What those guys averaged on teams going nowhere doesn't mean they average those numbers on championship squads.

2) The historical record shows that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh won nothing before Lebron, and nothing after. What's Kevin Love doing nowadays? Bosh is in the hall of fame for his role on the Heat, or you think him doing 20/10 as some second tier all-star on the Raptors winning 40 games a year was going to do it?

3) Ah so now you've set the arbitrary bar of '3+' finals so you can sidestep around Karl Malone, the 97 MVP, in TWO finals not hitting the GmSc score 95 Horry did. The point, which you seem incapable of grasping despite the obvious sarcasm, is the GmSc metric you're applying is bullshit if a role player like Robert Horry can attain a higher score in a series than 96 MJ, 97/98 Malone, etc. Doesn't matter if it was once, twice, or thrice. You also like to conveniently ignore that Pippen had a higher GmSc than the 2nd best player in 4 of 6 finals. That's a fair sample size as well, but inconvenient to your running narrative.

[RRR3]

3braincells getting brutally beat down as usual I see. Most destroyed poster in ISH history.

[Phoenix]

3braincells getting brutally beat down as usual I see. Most destroyed poster in ISH history.

You gotta love how he moves the goalpost. Overplays 95 Horry having higher GmSc than Pippen's finals, underplays 95 Horry having higher GmSc than 96 MJ, 96 Kemp and Payton, 97 and 98 Malone, and outright ignores Pippen having higher GmSc in 4 of 6 finals than the 2nd best player on the opposing team. Does any of it make sense? Nope, so 3ball disposes of what doesn't fit his narrative and runs with what does.

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[3ba11]

1)Prime Bosh was a 24/10 guy on a mediocre Raptors team. Love was 26/13 on a mediocre Wolves team. What those guys averaged on teams going nowhere doesn't mean they average those numbers on championship squads.





^^^ There's no need to pretend there's ambiguity

The track record confirms that Lebron reduced Love because he reduced Bosh before him, and Jamison before that, and Hughes before that.

Otoh, Pippen averaged 22 on a team going nowhere (94' and 95' Bulls), yet his stats didn't drop alongside Jordan (he averaged 21 with more assist in 92' and otherwise remained within 95% of his peak stats alongside MJ).

Infact, when MJ returned in 95', everyone took a 1-2 point haircut across the board because MJ's on-ball/off-ball game fit with everyone, so no one was cratered like Lebron's more 1-sided skillset (on-ball).. It's objective reality.






2) The historical record shows that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh won nothing before Lebron, and nothing after. What's Kevin Love doing nowadays? Bosh is in the hall of fame for his role on the Heat, or you think him doing 20/10 as some second tier all-star on the Raptors winning 40 games a year was going to do it?





Wade taught Lebron and Bosh how to win - Lebron was just another career-losing ball-dominator before teaming up with 2 other stars (super-teams) in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (definition of stacking the deck).






3) Ah so now you've set the arbitrary bar of '3+' finals so you can sidestep around Karl Malone, the 97 MVP, in TWO finals not hitting the GmSc score 95 Horry did. The point, which you seem incapable of grasping despite the obvious sarcasm, is the GmSc metric you're applying is bullshit if a role player like Robert Horry can attain a higher score in a series than 96 MJ, 97/98 Malone, etc. Doesn't matter if it was once, twice, or thrice. You also like to conveniently ignore that Pippen had a higher GmSc than the 2nd best player in 4 of 6 finals. That's a fair sample size as well, but inconvenient to your running narrative.





You guys use gamescore all the time, so I'm just using your stat to show that Pippen was worst-ever - he's the only guy that never reached Horry-level over a meaningful sample-size... 6 times was twice as long as anyone else went without reaching Horry-level.. lol

But there's plenty of other stats that I could use like true shooting (pippen was below league-average true shooting for every playoff run of his career except 89-91').... or PPG... or FMVP... or clutch... Pippen was worst-ever in these areas among winning sidekicks..

[Phoenix]

^^^ There's no need to pretend there's ambiguity

The track record confirms that Lebron reduced Love because he reduced Bosh before him, and Jamison before that, and Hughes before that.








Wade taught Lebron and Bosh how to win - Lebron was just another career-losing ball-dominator before teaming up with 2 other stars (super-teams) in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (definition of stacking the deck).






You guys use gamescore all the time, so I'm just using your stat to show that Pippen was worst-ever - he's the only guy that never reached Horry-level over a meaningful sample-size... 6 times was twice as long as anyone else went without reaching Horry-level.. lol



The track record confirms that Love and Bosh were high producing second tier stars on mediocre teams that either didn't make the playoffs or got bounced in the first round. Had they never played with Lebron it's quite likely that's all they would have ever amounted to.

Who's 'you guys'? I never bring up GmSc, and am only doing so here because of your dumbass comparison with 95 Horry and Pippen. Don't try to flip the script now when using that metric works against your narrative.

[SouBeachTalents]

The track record confirms that Love and Bosh were high producing second tier stars on mediocre teams that either didn't make the playoffs or got bounced in the first round. Had they never played with Lebron it's quite likely that's all they would have ever amounted to.

Who's 'you guys'? I never bring up GmSc, and am only doing so here because of your dumbass comparison with 95 Horry and Pippen. Don't try to flip the script now when using that metric works against your narrative.
Bro, you use gamescore all the time. You also bring up '89 Pippen a little too much imo.

[Phoenix]

Bro, you use gamescore all the time. You also bring up '89 Pippen a little too much imo.

Not to forget 09 Mo and V O R P.