Magic/Lebron needed super-teams yet they're losers in Finals (9-10), so...

[Shogon]

if the best ball-dominators can't win, then it's an inferior strategy

Accordingly, the historical failure of ball-domination confirms that your best player shouldn't engage in something as simple as initiating a possession - lesser teammates can do that, while the best players should be CLOSING possessions as needed.

Closers spend time as assist targets (off-ball), which faciliates ball movement and elevates teammate role to playmaker - the enhanced ball movement wears out defenses so they have less capacity for offense.. Indeed, closers win the attrition battle by wearing out the opponent and knocking them out at the end.

[Proctor]

Hi Dad, You have a dangerous-looking growth on your face. You need it taken care of. You allegedly have an appointment to see a dermotologist yet you don't seem to know when the appointment is, the address of where it is, the name of the doctor, or the phone number of how to reach the doctor. What are you doing?

[kawhileonard2]

Yep had peak Shaq as well

[warriorfan]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Pau Gasol as a second option when he won

[000]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Pau Gasol as a second option when he won



If the greatest ball-dominators in history (Magic/Lebron) can't win without super-teams, then I can assure you that lesser ball-dominators like Nash or CP3 will also need super-teams to win with the inferior strategy of ball domination.

So KG wouldn't be enough - a 3rd star is needed (super-team), or maybe Nash can win if KG is the top producer like AD was in 2020 or like Booker was for CP3 in 2021.

[3ba11]

If the greatest ball-dominators in history (Magic/Lebron) can't win without super-teams, then I can assure you that lesser ball-dominators like Nash or CP3 will also need super-teams to win with the inferior strategy of ball domination.

So KG wouldn't be enough - a 3rd star is needed (super-team), or maybe Nash can win if KG is the top producer like AD was in 2020 or like Booker was for CP3 in 2021.


Isn't it cool how the historical record aligns perfectly with the narrative

[000]

Isn't it cool how the historical record aligns perfectly with the narrative


Wrong.

because 1st options are expected to grow the franchise every year.. Kyrie did this upon joining the Cavs by making a lottery cast just attractive enough for your goat to give it another try in Cleveland.

Otoh, Pippen was handed the keys to a 3-peat dynasty and was borderline lottery within 18 months before MJ came back in 95'.. So unlike Kyrie who built a franchise up each year like a good 1st option is supposed to do, Pippen proved to be a crappy 1st option by quickly destroying a franchise.. Btw, we saw AD turn the lottery Lakers into champions in 1 year as 1st option.

Ultimately, Pippen's scoring ability was flow scoring and transition (no defensive attention needed), which was insufficient to be 1st option on a good team - a team can't be good if everyone on the team was a worse scorer than Pippen, hence the collapse in the 94' Playoffs or 95' regular season after the initial honeymoon and surprise factor was over - 95' was the REAL bulls without MJ (near lottery and cratering fast) before he returned.

Fortunately, Kukoc was probably a better scorer overall than Pippen (1st option when it mattered), so that actually kept the Bulls afloat in the regular season and playoffs where he was the BPM leader and 2nd in WS/48 ahead of Pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

Isn't it cool how the historical record aligns perfectly with the narrative

Not really when you yourself create the narrative based on historical record

[GimmeThat]

as the saying goes, getting your opponent to play at your pace is half the battle.

[3ba11]

as the saying goes, getting your opponent to play at your pace is half the battle.


Ball-dominance eventually loses control of the opponent - i.e. opponents started to get hot against Magic's ball-dominance after Kareem retired - Magic was molly-wopped by KJ's Suns in 90' and MJ in 91'.

This is similar to the Spurs, Mavs, Magic and Warriors getting hot against Lebron's ball-dominance - it's always the same excuse - the opponent "just got hot" (again)

But it isn't coincidence - ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. that's why ball-dominance is inferior strategy to ball movement, which wears down defenses and wins the battle of attrition. The best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and ball-dominance simply loses the attrition battle on the championship level (9-10 in Finals for Magic/Lebron with super-teams).

[AirBonner]

2013 Wade averaged 15ppg in the finals. That was LeBron’s 2nd option. You can call that a super team if you’d like just as you can choose to be wrong.

[3ba11]

2013 Wade averaged 15ppg in the finals.





2013 Finals

Wade....... 20 on 47%
Lebron..... 25 on 45%


So Lebron never carried the scoring load on the Finals level and he never carried a bed-wetting sidekick over a top team, aka he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick.

He can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level or carry bed-wetting sidekicks over top teams (carry-jobs) because his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or inefficient at high jumpshooting volume (15') to beat top teams in carry-job fashion..

Ultimately, for various playoff runs and every Finals win, Lebron had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so he didn't always face maximum defensive attention and never defeated it in the Finals - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who defeated max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

[SouBeachTalents]

20 ppg has never been considered equal to 25 in the history of basketball. More often than not that's the difference between an all-star level player and a superstar caliber one.

[3ba11]

20 ppg has never been considered equal to 25 in the history of basketball. More often than not that's the difference between an all-star level player and a superstar caliber one.


5-6 points above his sidekick in the Finals is pretty close, yet that's actually the BIGGEST gap Lebron ever had on the Finals level - he only averaged 2-6 more than sidekicks in the Finals, versus 10-20 for MJ.. no comparison..

And this is the trend for Lebron's career - for various playoff runs and every Finals win, Lebron had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so he didn't always face maximum defensive attention and never defeated it in the Finals - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who defeated max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Ultimately, Lebron never carried the scoring load on the Finals level and he never carried a bed-wetting sidekick over a top team, aka he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick.

He can't do these things (carry the scoring load on the Finals level or carry bed-wetting sidekicks over top teams, aka carry-jobs) because his high scoring is too ball-dominant (09') or inefficient at high jumpshooting volume (15') to beat top teams in carry-job fashion..