CDC Model Suggests US Covid Cases At ~200 Million

[Cleverness]

In November of 2020, National Progressive Radio (NPR) posted this article: Government Model Suggests U.S. COVID-19 Cases Could Be Approaching 100 Million (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million)

Today, using the latest CDC Model would suggest that cumulative US Covid Cases are ~203 Million. Link (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html). (4.0 x 50.8m cases = 203.2 million cases)

Which begs the question: how many infections have been prevented by NPIs so far? Let's break it down by NPI used:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements

[warriorfan]

It’s almost like we shut down everything for nothing.

Thanks cucks.

99.9% survival rate by the way

[John_Connor]

people get sick. who cares. omicron is like a cold. deal with it. this hysteria is out of control.

[Loco 50]

:oldlol: I mean when the frontal lobe eroded, proud crack users of insidehoops agree with you, that's when you know you've taken the truly righteous side of an issue.

Well done, op. :pimp::applause::pimp::rolleyes:

[warriorfan]

:oldlol: I mean when the frontal lobe eroded, proud crack users of insidehoops agree with you, that's when you know you've taken the truly righteous side of an issue.

Well done, op. :pimp::applause::pimp::rolleyes:

You are a fat beaner with low iq.

99.9%

[Patrick Chewing]

It’s almost like we shut down everything for nothing.

Thanks cucks.

99.9% survival rate by the way

The best defense against Covid is to actually get it, and then fight it off naturally and develop antibodies for it. But to shelter everyone in place as if there's a nuclear holocaust outside our doorstep...insane. Our leaders haven't a clue how to properly run a country. Herd immunity was and still is the best answer to fighting a virus.

[Off the Court]

Hey what do you guys think about this vaccine thing that some are taking? Are any of you familiar with it? I think one is made by a company called Fizer or something like that. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Patrick Chewing]

Hey what do you guys think about this vaccine thing that some are taking? Are any of you familiar with it? I think one is made by a company called Fizer or something like that. Anyone have any thoughts?

It's great. It prevents you from really getting sick and potentially dying if you're an at-risk individual. However, it does not prevent you from catching Covid-19. You can still catch Covid-19 and spread it, even if you are vaccinated.


I hope I have educated a simpleton such as yourself.

[Bronbron23]

Hey what do you guys think about this vaccine thing that some are taking? Are any of you familiar with it? I think one is made by a company called Fizer or something like that. Anyone have any thoughts?

Great for protecting those in high risk groups like the old, fat and immune compromised. It's not necessary for those in low risk groups because they aren't dying or being seriously hospitalized at a significant rate to justify it. Plus the vaccine does very little to prevent transmission so there's no logical reasoning for why those in the low risk group should take the vaccine and therefore there is no logical reasoning for mandates

[Patrick Chewing]

Great for protecting those in high risk groups like the old, fat and immune compromised. It's not necessary for those in low risk groups because they aren't dying or being seriously hospitalized at a significant rate to justify it. Plus the vaccine does very little to prevent transmission so there's no logical reasoning for why those in the low risk group should take the vaccine and therefore there is no logical reasoning for mandates

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3owzW9EZI8M3sz9s5O/200.gif

[GimmeThat]

countries deemed to be of 3rd world status by 1st world countries, meets people from 1st world countries only to discover in the developed world, they just falsify death certificates

[Cleverness]

Which begs the question: how many infections have been prevented by NPIs so far? Let's break it down by NPI used:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements

Well? Anyone?


people get sick. who cares. omicron is like a cold. deal with it. this hysteria is out of control.

Correct mindset, but people like Donald Trump, tontoz, Loco 50, Rooster, etc (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498377-How-is-Alabama-currently-42nd-in-daily-Covid-cases), still believe in social distancing, masks, travel restrictions, etc. It's really tough to get through to them since they usually duck and dodge out of the conversation after the slightest bit of cross examination.


Well done, op. :pimp::applause::pimp::rolleyes:

Thanks. Still waiting for you to answer the questions regarding your claims here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499467-Over-70-of-COVID-deaths-in-UK-are-fully-vaccinated-during-month-of-September&p=14487472&viewfull=1#post14487472
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14429447&viewfull=1#post14429447



Hey what do you guys think about this vaccine thing that some are taking? Are any of you familiar with it? I think one is made by a company called Fizer or something like that. Anyone have any thoughts?

I've been told that the vaccine (known as the "Trump Vaccine") reduces one's risk of being hospitalized and dying.

Unfortunately, after asking several times how much it reduces one's risk of being hospitalized and dying (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499467-Over-70-of-COVID-deaths-in-UK-are-fully-vaccinated-during-month-of-September&p=14497368&viewfull=1#post14497368), it still seems as if nobody knows. :confusedshrug:

[Loco 50]

The best defense against Covid is to actually get it, and then fight it off naturally and develop antibodies for it. But to shelter everyone in place as if there's a nuclear holocaust outside our doorstep...insane. Our leaders haven't a clue how to properly run a country. Herd immunity was and still is the best answer to fighting a virus.
Patricio, antibodies are antibodies. A vaccine stimulates the body into making the same damn antibodies it would make without the risks associated to yourself and others by exposure to the actual virus.

There are other negative outcomes than just death associated with covid, but you already know this from personal experience.

[Loco 50]

Great for protecting those in high risk groups like the old, fat and immune compromised. It's not necessary for those in low risk groups because they aren't dying or being seriously hospitalized at a significant rate to justify it. Plus the vaccine does very little to prevent transmission so there's no logical reasoning for why those in the low risk group should take the vaccine and therefore there is no logical reasoning for mandates
Death is not the only negative outcome.

Long term effects in children - https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/en/HealthU/2021/05/19/how-covid-19-affects-kids-long-term#:~:text=As%20more%20and%20more%20people,fog%2 0and%20other%20symptoms.

Long term in adults - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

This ignores the economic impact of rendering people incapable of working and bogging down our healthcare chain with needlessly infected people when other healthcare crises are concurrently running.

Also wrong about viral transmission. It decreases time span of illness by decreasing viral load which decreases transmission capability.

Why would you expose people needlessly?

E. Coli likely won't kill you but I'd hope that you wash your hands before cooking for others after going to the bathroom.

An std likely won't kill you, but I'd hope that you're strapping to avoid all those lovely nonlethal consequences as well.

Read more on germ theory and principles of hygiene, please.

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/prevention/Pages/Germ-Prevention-Strategies.aspx

[noonereal]

people get sick. who cares. omicron is like a cold. deal with it. this hysteria is out of control.

why do you post as an ignorant ass hole?

[Loco 50]

Well? Anyone?



Correct mindset, but people like Donald Trump, tontoz, Loco 50, Rooster, etc (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498377-How-is-Alabama-currently-42nd-in-daily-Covid-cases), still believe in social distancing, masks, travel restrictions, etc. It's really tough to get through to them since they usually duck and dodge out of the conversation after the slightest bit of cross examination.


Thanks. Still waiting for you to answer the questions regarding your claims here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499467-Over-70-of-COVID-deaths-in-UK-are-fully-vaccinated-during-month-of-September&p=14487472&viewfull=1#post14487472
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14429447&viewfull=1#post14429447




:

I already answered your questions and provided you reasoning on why you were incorrectly using the wrong stat.

Part of my job requirement has been to assess the capability of a patient in understanding a potential treatment.

It would be useless to attempt to teach the biochemistry of cancer to someone that never understood basic biology. Same as it would be useless to teach a flat-earther basic physics except with the additional problem of the flat-earther imbecile thinking he "knows" the truth, the cover up, the lies, etc......Sound similar? You're the flat-earther in another skin.

In short, you've proven yourself to have a grossly deficient fund of knowledge, so me trying to teach you anything is futile.

Have a good one.

[Cleverness]

why do you post as an ignorant ass hole?

He posts as a normal person who can face the facts and isn't buying into the out of control hysteria.

[Cleverness]

I already answered your questions

No, you haven't. If so, link the post.

[Loco 50]

why do you post as an ignorant ass hole?

When a person becomes addicted to crack or other brain toxic substances they disengage their frontal lobe. The frontal lobe is what inhibits people from engaging in risky or socially noxious behavior. So when that's damaged or gone it becomes very easy for someone to be an asshole.

Exhibit 1 and 2: warriorfan and John_Connor.

[Loco 50]

No, you haven't. If so, link the post.

Go find it yourself. I'm not repeating myself or taking anymore time to converse with you.

I don't respect your capability to learn anymore.

[tpols]

Patricio, antibodies are antibodies.

That's the point. If people can prove through a test they have antibodies because of previous natural exposure why would the vaccine be required of anybody that can produce that test result? Antibodies are antibodies right? You clowns can't even keep your story straight.

[Cleverness]

I already answered your questions


Go find it yourself. I'm not repeating myself or taking anymore time to converse with you.

Ok.

Here was your response, but you didn't answer the question:


I don't give a shit about your arguments.

I could come at you with a dozen fn papers and you'd just move the gdamn goal posts everytime.

You're arguing with trained medical professionals and I've wasted entirely too much time trying to work some kind of sense into you. It's a lost cause.

If you truly wanted the information, you'd have found it yourself.

Good evening to you.

I responded here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14429720&viewfull=1#post14429720

And shortly after Fkari called you out for your temper tantrum, you disappeared. So you never actually answered the question, only deflected, just as you are doing right now.



As for the question about the ARR of hospitalization and death after becoming Covid vaccinated, you typed a lot of text regarding your opinion on the usefulness of the stat, but never actually answered the question itself. I explained here :http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499467-Over-70-of-COVID-deaths-in-UK-are-fully-vaccinated-during-month-of-September&p=14487472&viewfull=1#post14487472 one reason why your link doesn't answer the question, as it does not attempt to answer the question of how much it reduces one's chances of being hospitalization and dying, but you disappeared after.

[Off the Court]

OMFG I just thought of something crazy. What if they hid gps microchips that track us in the vaccine? Then they would know exactly when we all go to the grocery store and stuff :eek:

[Bronbron23]

Death is not the only negative outcome.

Long term effects in children - https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/en/HealthU/2021/05/19/how-covid-19-affects-kids-long-term#:~:text=As%20more%20and%20more%20people,fog%2 0and%20other%20symptoms.

Long term in adults - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

This ignores the economic impact of rendering people incapable of working and bogging down our healthcare chain with needlessly infected people when other healthcare crises are concurrently running.

Also wrong about viral transmission. It decreases time span of illness by decreasing viral load which decreases transmission capability.

Why would you expose people needlessly?

E. Coli likely won't kill you but I'd hope that you wash your hands before cooking for others after going to the bathroom.

An std likely won't kill you, but I'd hope that you're strapping to avoid all those lovely nonlethal consequences as well.

Read more on germ theory and principles of hygiene, please.

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/prevention/Pages/Germ-Prevention-Strategies.aspx

Long haul covid is interesting but we need way more and better studies to determine causation. There's way to many symptoms on the list and you need only one to be classified as long haul covid. For instance anxiety, depression, concentration problems, sleep qnd fatigue are all symptoms. These are all things that be a factor of many different things. One could get anxiety from having covid itself and anxiety can lead to the rest of those symptoms.

And yes the vaccine is a little better than not being vaccinated as far as transmission but it's not a good argument because both aren't effective. What's 15% more effective than absolute dog shit? Still dog shit. Simply put the vaccines aren't effective in controlling the spread of covid. This isn't arguable anymore.

And nobody is saying people should expose themselves to covid dude. You should take your precautions but it's inevitable that some people are gonna get it.

This debate can be solved with 2 questions

1) are the vaccines effective in controlling the spread? No

2) are low risk groups dying and being hospitalized at a significant enough of a rate to justify mandating them to get the vaccine? No

So if the vaccines aren't effective in controlling the spread and low risk groups aren't at significant risk to covid how can you logically justify mandating these vaccines?

[Loco 50]

That's the point. If people can prove through a test they have antibodies because of previous natural exposure why would the vaccine be required of anybody that can produce that test result? Antibodies are antibodies right? You clowns can't even keep your story straight.

Immunity degrades with time and will be more specified to actual agent of infection. When the strain mutates the antibodies decrease effectiveness, thus breakthrough infections. Breakthrough infection should be, and usually is, mild in comparison because usually there is enough genetic overlap that protection provided by booster will be adequate. Vaccination literally provides a boost that aids you whether you have previously been infected or not.

[Loco 50]

Long haul covid is interesting but we need way more and better studies to determine causation. There's way to many symptoms on the list and you need only one to be classified as long haul covid. For instance anxiety, depression, concentration problems, sleep qnd fatigue are all symptoms. These are all things that be a factor of many different things. One could get anxiety from having covid itself and anxiety can lead to the rest of those symptoms.

And yes the vaccine is a little better than not being vaccinated as far as transmission but it's not a good argument because both aren't effective. What's 15% more effective than absolute dog shit? Still dog shit. Simply put the vaccines aren't effective in controlling the spread of covid. This isn't arguable anymore.

And nobody is saying people should expose themselves to covid dude. You should take your precautions but it's inevitable that some people are gonna get it.

This debate can be solved with 2 questions

1) are the vaccines effective in controlling the spread? No

2) are low risk groups dying and being hospitalized at a significant enough of a rate to justify mandating them to get the vaccine? No

So if the vaccines aren't effective in controlling the spread and low risk groups aren't at significant risk to covid how can you logically justify mandating these vaccines?
Never took a stance on mandates. Frankly, I don't care. I care about informing people on the best healthcare decision for themselves. Only folks that shouldn't be vaccinated at this point are folks with a valid medical reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWMkeMA3sfA

This video covers a good study on different outcomes between vaccinated/unvaccinated populations in Texas.

[Loco 50]

Ok.

Here was your response, but you didn't answer the question:



I responded here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14429720&viewfull=1#post14429720

And shortly after Fkari called you out for your temper tantrum, you disappeared. So you never actually answered the question, only deflected, just as you are doing right now.



As for the question about the ARR of hospitalization and death after becoming Covid vaccinated, you typed a lot of text regarding your opinion on the usefulness of the stat, but never actually answered the question itself. I explained here :http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499467-Over-70-of-COVID-deaths-in-UK-are-fully-vaccinated-during-month-of-September&p=14487472&viewfull=1#post14487472 one reason why your link doesn't answer the question, as it does not attempt to answer the question of how much it reduces one's chances of being hospitalization and dying, but you disappeared after.

:oldlol: You have an interesting way of selectively reading text which explains your stance on the entire topic.

One must walk before they attempt to run, Cleverness. You have no foundation of knowledge in this area and are poorly equipped for any further discussion.

[Loco 50]

OMFG I just thought of something crazy. What if they hid gps microchips that track us in the vaccine? Then they would know exactly when we all go to the grocery store and stuff :eek:

The stupid thing about this conspiracy is these same folks are walking around with cell phones.....These folks get tiresome.

[SATAN]

Never took a stance on mandates. Frankly, I don't care. I care about informing people on the best healthcare decision for themselves.

Why? These posters will go against the grain on just about anything anyway. It's who they are and natural selection is a thing.

[Loco 50]

Why? These posters will go against the grain on just about anything anyway. It's who they are and natural selection is a thing.

True, but there will be collateral damage in the meantime. Plus, on the off chance that this site still receives visitors :lol that actually want informed advice I'd like there to be some available.

[Bronbron23]

Never took a stance on mandates. Frankly, I don't care. I care about informing people on the best healthcare decision for themselves. Only folks that shouldn't be vaccinated at this point are folks with a valid medical reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWMkeMA3sfA

This video covers a good study on different outcomes between vaccinated/unvaccinated populations in Texas.

I disagree. Those with natural immunity don't need the vaccine. Children and young adults don't need the vaccine.

As far educating people on why it's a good idea they get the vaccine i'm all for that just be honest and don't spread misinformation like alot of people are doing.

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Dr. Lemon]

I disagree. Those with natural immunity don't need the vaccine. Children and young adults don't need the vaccine.

As far educating people on why it's a good idea they get the vaccine i'm all for that just be honest and don't spread misinformation like alot of people are doing.

New studies show that natural immunity to the coronavirus weakens (wanes) over time, and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination.

Oops.

[Cleverness]

:oldlol: You have an interesting way of selectively reading text which explains your stance on the entire topic.

One must walk before they attempt to run, Cleverness. You have no foundation of knowledge in this area and are poorly equipped for any further discussion.

Selectively reading text? I read all of your text and nowhere in it did you answer the questions. If it did, then point it out. How many infections has each NPI prevented so far? What is the ARR of hospitalization and death? The answers to both of these questions should be in numerical form.

Yes, you responded (with a tantrum, I might add), but you didn't actually answer the questions.


I don't give a shit about your arguments.

I could come at you with a dozen fn papers and you'd just move the gdamn goal posts everytime.

You're arguing with trained medical professionals and I've wasted entirely too much time trying to work some kind of sense into you. It's a lost cause.

If you truly wanted the information, you'd have found it yourself.

Good evening to you.


Even trained medical professionals can't agree on a single approach. These are tough decisions. Most of what Cleverness has talked about is in line with at least a portion of the medical community. It's not anything batshit.

Feel free to bold the part that breaks down how many infections each NPI has prevented as well as the ARR of hospitalization and death after becoming vaccinated.

What you've done, and continue to do, is deflect with ad hominem.

[Bronbron23]

New studies show that natural immunity to the coronavirus weakens (wanes) over time, and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination.

Oops.

You can find studies to support any argument. Most studies and the biggest studies show natural immunity is stronger and last longer. Common sense and our understanding of science has also told us this for years also btw.

[Patrick Chewing]

Natural immunity is evolution of the species. Now, people are going against evolution to support their agenda of being pro-vaccine for whatever that reason may be. Ya'll have stock in these companies or what??

[Dr. Lemon]

You can find studies to support any argument. Most studies and the biggest studies show natural immunity is stronger and last longer. Common sense and our understanding of science has also told us this for years also btw.

Please bronbron, direct me to these "biggest studies" and make sure it includes the qualifiers that deem them the biggest. Jesus.

Oh btw, here's an article from WebMd: https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211031/covid-vax-5-times-more-protective-than-natural-immunity

"COVID Vax 5 Times More Protective Than Natural Immunity..."

Lol.

[Off the Court]

Natural immunity is evolution of the species. Now, people are going against evolution to support their agenda of being pro-vaccine for whatever that reason may be. Ya'll have stock in these companies or what??
You're vaccinated.

Why did you go against natural immunity and evolution?

[Patrick Chewing]

You're vaccinated.

Why did you go against natural immunity and evolution?

For the one millionth time, I'm not against taking a vaccine. I'm against a mandate for it and against the negative perception people have of those who choose not to be vaccinated.


It's a very simple concept that I outlined in my above statement. I outlined the support for freedom of choice and a respect for that choice. I respect those that choose to get a vaccine, and I respect those that do not. I respect the choice. And that is what makes living in a free society the best thing in the world. The ability to have a choice. Both Liberals and Conservatives need to get behind that. We need to get behind the freedom of choice, and also be aware that government has boundaries, and that they cross them when they start talking about mandates and encouraging private businesses to do the same. At that point, our society ceases being a free society with the availability of choice.


But of course, in a few weeks, we'll have this argument again, and either yourself, or someone else will chime in with the same "Well you're vaccinated" line as if that somehow negates anything I have said time and time again.

[Off the Court]

For the one millionth time, I'm not against taking a vaccine. I'm against a mandate for it and against the negative perception people have of those who choose not to be vaccinated.


It's a very simple concept that I outlined in my above statement. I outlined the support for freedom of choice and a respect for that choice. I respect those that choose to get a vaccine, and I respect those that do not. I respect the choice. And that is what makes living in a free society the best thing in the world. The ability to have a choice. Both Liberals and Conservatives need to get behind that. We need to get behind the freedom of choice, and also be aware that government has boundaries, and that they cross them when they start talking about mandates and encouraging private businesses to do the same. At that point, our society ceases being a free society with the availability of choice.


But of course, in a few weeks, we'll have this argument again, and either yourself, or someone else will chime in with the same "Well you're vaccinated" line as if that somehow negates anything I have said time and time again.
You were upset at the vaccinated for "going against evolution". But you're vaccinated.

Thanks for f@#king up our evolution you son of b@#ch.

[Patrick Chewing]

You were upset at the vaccinated for "going against evolution". But you're vaccinated.

Thanks for f@#king up our evolution you son of b@#ch.


Man you are one stupid son of a bitch.

Taking the vaccine by choice and not taking it and allowing mother nature to take its course are two totally different things and two very viable ways to fight off the effects of Covid. Both can exist in the same universe. What you and your ilk are crying about is that you truly believe that the vaccine is the only way to not get infected, not get sick, and not die from Covid. That couldn't be further from the truth. I would think a fat and ugly troll such as yourself would know this.

[Jasper]

it has just been reported that the majority of CVD19 cases in the hospital are non-vaxxed people.

90% protection from cvd19 if you take the vaccination... which means 10 % chance.

[Axe]

Funny how these right wing fascists make fun of other vaxxed people that don't support their views if those people prefer a certain vaccine over another like merely calling them anti-vaxxers already but react madly when they're also vaxxed and those same vaxxed people mock them for going against natural immunity/evolution whenever the RWFs question their integrity about this stuff.

[Jasper]

Funny how these right wing fascists make fun of other vaxxed people that don't support their views if those people prefer a certain vaccine over another like merely calling them anti-vaxxers already but react madly when they're also vaxxed and those same vaxxed people mock them for going against natural immunity/evolution whenever the RWFs question their integrity about this stuff.

true thought.

[Patrick Chewing]

Funny how these right wing fascists make fun of other vaxxed people that don't support their views if those people prefer a certain vaccine over another like merely calling them anti-vaxxers already but react madly when they're also vaxxed and those same vaxxed people mock them for going against natural immunity/evolution whenever the RWFs question their integrity about this stuff.

That's the longest run-on sentence I've seen in a while on ISH and that surprises me since most of you are illiterate and stupid as shit. Nothing you wrote there makes any sense. Of course an inbred old fart like Jasper would understand you. :oldlol:

https://c.tenor.com/UxiAZ3b2-gIAAAAd/no-points-idiotic.gif

[Axe]

That's the longest run-on sentence I've seen in a while on ISH and that surprises me since most of you are illiterate and stupid as shit. Nothing you wrote there makes any sense. Of course an inbred old fart like Jasper would understand you. :oldlol:

https://c.tenor.com/UxiAZ3b2-gIAAAAd/no-points-idiotic.gif
As expected, now you resort to ad hominem because it didn't come from someone who shares your views. :oldlol:

[Off the Court]

Funny how these right wing fascists make fun of other vaxxed people that don't support their views if those people prefer a certain vaccine over another like merely calling them anti-vaxxers already but react madly when they're also vaxxed and those same vaxxed people mock them for going against natural immunity/evolution whenever the RWFs question their integrity about this stuff.

True thought.

[Patrick Chewing]

As expected, now you resort to ad hominem because it didn't come from someone who shares your views. :oldlol:

No ad hominem. Just pointing out how incredibly dimwitted most of you are.

[Bronbron23]

Please bronbron, direct me to these "biggest studies" and make sure it includes the qualifiers that deem them the biggest. Jesus.

Oh btw, here's an article from WebMd: https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211031/covid-vax-5-times-more-protective-than-natural-immunity

"COVID Vax 5 Times More Protective Than Natural Immunity..."

Lol.

Ahhh no prob here you go https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

The studies done in Isreal are recognized even by fauci and the cdc as one of the better ones given its size and the fact that Isreal is more vaccinated.

Again we can find different studies to support our claims but up until covid conventional wisdom and basic common sense always said natural immunity is as good or better.

And for argument sakes what does it matter? What is 5x better than absolute shit? It's still shit. If anything your just delaying the inevitable because this thing is gonna continue to spread like crazy regardless if we're all vaccinated or not.

Question for you. Do you actually think the vaccine is effective in controlling the spread of covid?

[bladefd]

For the one millionth time, I'm not against taking a vaccine. I'm against a mandate for it and against the negative perception people have of those who choose not to be vaccinated.


It's a very simple concept that I outlined in my above statement. I outlined the support for freedom of choice and a respect for that choice. I respect those that choose to get a vaccine, and I respect those that do not. I respect the choice. And that is what makes living in a free society the best thing in the world. The ability to have a choice. Both Liberals and Conservatives need to get behind that. We need to get behind the freedom of choice, and also be aware that government has boundaries, and that they cross them when they start talking about mandates and encouraging private businesses to do the same. At that point, our society ceases being a free society with the availability of choice.


But of course, in a few weeks, we'll have this argument again, and either yourself, or someone else will chime in with the same "Well you're vaccinated" line as if that somehow negates anything I have said time and time again.

Who is forcing nation-wide vaccination? People who don't want a vaccine don't have to get it. Yes, their work might demand it, but that's not the society or government forcing it. Each party has their own jurisdictions to answer to. Autonomy is what conservatives have always argued for. Let companies, federal/state/county governments have their autonomy. If they want to mandate vaccine for their jurisdiction, then let them. That's how autonomy works.

You chose to get vaccinated. Nobody forced you to. You could have easily chosen to not get vaccinated. You don't fall under any jurisdiction. But you still chose to get vaccinated.

Don't like autonomy?? You can go kick rocks.

[bladefd]

Ahhh no prob here you go https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/

The studies done in Isreal are recognized even by fauci and the cdc as one of the better ones given its size and the fact that Isreal is more vaccinated.

Again we can find different studies to support our claims but up until covid conventional wisdom and basic common sense always said natural immunity is as good or better.

And for argument sakes what does it matter? What is 5x better than absolute shit? It's still shit. If anything your just delaying the inevitable because this thing is gonna continue to spread like crazy regardless if we're all vaccinated or not.

Question for you. Do you actually think the vaccine is effective in controlling the spread of covid?

That Israeli study seems to exclude the boosters.


This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

Study was done in August so there was no booster then yet. It is not an up-to-date study. The boosters were specifically designed for the delta variant too. The study pertains to the delta variant. Do you not see the elephant in the room?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

[Patrick Chewing]

Who is forcing nation-wide vaccination? People who don't want a vaccine don't have to get it. Yes, their work might demand it, but that's not the society or government forcing it. Each party has their own jurisdictions to answer to. Autonomy is what conservatives have always argued for. Let companies, federal/state/county governments have their autonomy. If they want to mandate vaccine for their jurisdiction, then let them. That's how autonomy works.

You chose to get vaccinated. Nobody forced you to. You could have easily chosen to not get vaccinated. You don't fall under any jurisdiction. But you still chose to get vaccinated.

Don't like autonomy?? You can go kick rocks.

Liberals are forcing nation-wide vaccination. I'm the one preaching for autonomy, not you. :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

That Israeli study seems to exclude the boosters.



Study was done in August so there was no booster then yet. It is not an up-to-date study. The boosters were specifically designed for the delta variant too. The study pertains to the delta variant. Do you not see the elephant in the room?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

I don't think that's true bro. Pretty sure the booster is the same vaccine it's just given at a lesser dose. This would mean your also wrong about them being made for delta. Not sure where your getting that from.

[bladefd]

Liberals are forcing nation-wide vaccination. I'm the one preaching for autonomy, not you. :oldlol:

You already have autonomy and had it since the start of covid. We don't live in an 'if' world.

[bladefd]

I don't think that's true bro. Pretty sure the booster is the same vaccine it's just given at a lesser dose. This would mean your also wrong about them being made for delta. Not sure where your getting that from.

You might be right about that. But regardless, it boosts up your antibodies and the antibody bump works well against delta and also now omicron. That study is from pre-booster looking at delta.

[Patrick Chewing]

blade, your mental gymnastics and doublespeak won't work with me. You have been a champion for mandated vaccinations for quite some time now.

[Bronbron23]

You might be right about that. But regardless, it boosts up your antibodies and the antibody bump works well against delta and also now omicron. That study is from pre-booster looking at delta.

Yeah true but then shouldn't people with natural immunity only need the booster? And what if they get covid again? Shouldn't that be sufficient?

I guess my point and alot of people's point is this aggressive push to get everyone vaccinated even those in low risk group makes people question what the actual motivate is. Especially when they ignore basic logic, principles and facts like natural immunity qnd children and young adults being extremely low risk. They should of acknowledged this and educated around these facts. Instead they constantly lied or at the very least guessed wrong which made people who already distrust the government, big pharma qnd the media more suspect.

[bladefd]

blade, your mental gymnastics and doublespeak won't work with me. You have been a champion for mandated vaccinations for quite some time now.

Lol, you are one funny man. No, I don't 'champion' or believe in vaccine mandates. People should be understanding on their own. Like you were when you decided to get vaccinated. I respect you for that - good man!

However, feds are within their power to require vaccines for their federal employees or not require. Same with state governments, same with the city council, same with private companies.

If you don't like the rules set by your employer then you are welcome to find another job without a vaccine requirement. Better yet, start your own company & make your own rules. Nobody is stopping you.

[Cleverness]

Today, using the latest CDC Model would suggest that cumulative US Covid Cases are ~203 Million. Link (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html). (4.0 x 50.8m cases = 203.2 million cases)

Which begs the question: how many infections have been prevented by NPIs so far? Let's break it down by NPI used:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements

50+ replies so far, but has anyone even bothered to answer the question? Lol. So many supporters of such measures (Trump, tontoz, Loco 50, Rooster, etc) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498377-How-is-Alabama-currently-42nd-in-daily-Covid-cases), yet, cumulatively, no known infections prevented from those NPIs. :lol

[Cleverness]

Never took a stance on mandates. Frankly, I don't care.

@Bronbron23 , this man Loco, frankly doesn't believe that people, including children, should have the freedom to refuse medical intrusions into their bodies - and, in particular, for a Trump-promoted "vaccine" that hasn't shown that it reduces risk of hospitalization and/or death in any RCT.

When he says "he cares about informing people..." what he really means is he cares about parroting the official narrative whenever he gets the chance. And when someone like me questions the official narrative, he crumbles.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14497792&viewfull=1#post14497792

I asked him how many infections each NPI has prevented so far... did he answer? Nope. Didn't even try to estimate it. I asked him what the ARR of hospitalization and death was after becoming vaccinated... does he answer? Nope.

If someone is pushing the vaccine on others, then fair questions to ask are:

Does the vaccine reduce my chances of hospitalization and death?

If so, what are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I choose not to become vaccinated? What are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I do get vaccinated?

[Loco 50]

@Bronbron23 , this man Loco, frankly doesn't believe that people, including children, should have the freedom to refuse medical intrusions into their bodies - and, in particular, for a Trump-promoted "vaccine" that hasn't shown that it reduces risk of hospitalization and/or death in any RCT.

When he says "he cares about informing people..." what he really means is he cares about parroting the official narrative whenever he gets the chance. And when someone like me questions the official narrative, he crumbles.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14497792&viewfull=1#post14497792

I asked him how many infections each NPI has prevented so far... did he answer? Nope. Didn't even try to estimate it. I asked him what the ARR of hospitalization and death was after becoming vaccinated... does he answer? Nope.

If someone is pushing the vaccine on others, then fair questions to ask are:

Does the vaccine reduce my chances of hospitalization and death?

If so, what are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I choose not to become vaccinated? What are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I do get vaccinated?
Think I finally found something your speed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z9BsKpCJY0

[Cleverness]

Loco:

How many infections have each of those NPIs prevented so far?

Does the vaccine reduce one's chances of hospitalization and death?

If so, what are the chances of one being hospitalized and dying if one chooses not to become vaccinated?

What are the chances of one being hospitalized and dying if one gets vaccinated?

[Cleverness]

Think I finally found something your speed.

I don't have any children... have you finally found the answers to the questions above?

[Loco 50]

Loco:

How many infections have each of those NPIs prevented so far?

None, it's a worldwide medical conspiracy which lets us power trip and laugh while inconveniencing others. Busted.


Does the vaccine reduce one's chances of hospitalization and death?

Busted again. Not at all. It's just glucose and a radio tag so we can monitor persons of interest along with a killswitch for high value targets. Most folks don't know there are different tags that vary according to what perceived threat they pose to our ultimate goal.


If so, what are the chances of one being hospitalized and dying if one chooses not to become vaccinated?

We have other ways of effectively disappearing folks. Don't need a vaccine for that.


What are the chances of one being hospitalized and dying if one gets vaccinated?
None, we want you alive, for now.....The question that you really need to ask yourself is how big a threat we perceive you to be.



I don't have any children... have you finally found the answers to the questions above?

:oldlol: I believe this is the first thing you've said that legit made me laugh and you didn't even purposefully do it....It definitely gives me better insight on the psychology I'm dealing with howeva.

God bless you, Cleverness. May you have success in your search for enlightenment.

[Cleverness]

I care about informing people on the best healthcare decision for themselves.


None, it's a worldwide medical conspiracy which lets us power trip and laugh while inconveniencing others. Busted.

Busted again. Not at all. It's just glucose and a radio tag so we can monitor persons of interest along with a killswitch for high value targets. Most folks don't know there are different tags that vary according to what perceived threat they pose to our ultimate goal.

We have other ways of effectively disappearing folks. Don't need a vaccine for that.

None, we want you alive, for now.....The question that you really need to ask yourself is how big a threat we perceive you to be.


:oldlol: I believe this is the first thing you've said that legit made me laugh and you didn't even purposefully do it....It definitely gives me better insight on the psychology I'm dealing with howeva.

God bless you, Cleverness. May you have success in your search for enlightenment.

:lol

[BurningHammer]

Think I finally found something your speed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z9BsKpCJY0


:roll:

[Nanners]

Imagine still thinking that the vaccine is safe or effective :oldlol:

This is obviously the least effective vaccine of all time (usually vaccinated people dont catch the disease they are vaxxed for in droves), and considering how many celebrities/athletes/politicians have died from covid vs how many of them have suffered serious side effects from the vax its probably the most unsafe vaccine of all time as well (and its not even a "vaccine" in the traditional definition, its an experimental gene therapy)

[SATAN]

its probably the most unsafe vaccine of all time

:facepalm

[Axe]

No ad hominem. Just pointing out how incredibly dimwitted most of you are.
Like the anti-vax crowd? :confusedshrug:

[Long Duck Dong]

Who is forcing nation-wide vaccination? People who don't want a vaccine don't have to get it. Yes, their work might demand it, but that's not the society or government forcing it. Each party has their own jurisdictions to answer to. Autonomy is what conservatives have always argued for. Let companies, federal/state/county governments have their autonomy. If they want to mandate vaccine for their jurisdiction, then let them. That's how autonomy works.

You chose to get vaccinated. Nobody forced you to. You could have easily chosen to not get vaccinated. You don't fall under any jurisdiction. But you still chose to get vaccinated.

Don't like autonomy?? You can go kick rocks.

Corporatocracy is taking over the world, small to medium sized businesses comprised of 50% of the GDP in the 90s and it's been dropping steadily ever since in the US. More and more of our every day lives are now controlled by the government or corporations.

I'm not sure if this is the hill I'd die on but I can't blame others for being up in arms over the current mandates. This vaccine isn't like others in the past. It virtually has no effect on the transmissibility of the virus and the current strain that's about to take over is now considered less deadly than the typical flu.

It's a slippery slope we're going down. Let politicians and corporate elites flex, and demand you be vaccinated for a relatively harmless virus today. Tomorrow be sterilized. The next, testing for meat consumption. The next, be an atheist. Etc etc Either that, or have your pursuit of happiness severely curtailed by the government or big corporations. You don't have to comply, you can be homeless if you want, you have a choice... And some people, most maybe, are happy giving up control of their lives to the elites in society but not all.

I'm too busy to worry about complying with a vaccine or masks today but the government's heavy handed approach and big pharma's power is concerning. People should always take a stand against something that makes less and less sense so I applaud those that do.

[diamenz]

Corporatocracy is taking over the world, small to medium sized businesses comprised of 50% of the GDP in the 90s and it's been dropping steadily ever since in the US. More and more of our every day lives are now controlled by the government or corporations.

I'm not sure if this is the hill I'd die on but I can't blame others for being up in arms over the current mandates. This vaccine isn't like others in the past. It virtually has no effect on the transmissibility of the virus and the current strain that's about to take over is now considered less deadly than the typical flu.

It's a slippery slope we're going down. Let politicians and corporate elites flex, and demand you be vaccinated for a relatively harmless virus today. Tomorrow be sterilized. The next, testing for meat consumption. The next, be an atheist. Etc etc Either that, or have your pursuit of happiness severely curtailed by the government or big corporations. You don't have to comply, you can be homeless if you want, you have a choice... And some people, most maybe, are happy giving up control of their lives to the elites in society but not all.

I'm too busy to worry about complying with a vaccine or masks today but the government's heavy handed approach and big pharma's power is concerning. People should always take a stand against something that makes less and less sense so I applaud those that do.

:applause:

[Bronbron23]

@Bronbron23 , this man Loco, frankly doesn't believe that people, including children, should have the freedom to refuse medical intrusions into their bodies - and, in particular, for a Trump-promoted "vaccine" that hasn't shown that it reduces risk of hospitalization and/or death in any RCT.

When he says "he cares about informing people..." what he really means is he cares about parroting the official narrative whenever he gets the chance. And when someone like me questions the official narrative, he crumbles.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14497792&viewfull=1#post14497792

I asked him how many infections each NPI has prevented so far... did he answer? Nope. Didn't even try to estimate it. I asked him what the ARR of hospitalization and death was after becoming vaccinated... does he answer? Nope.

If someone is pushing the vaccine on others, then fair questions to ask are:

Does the vaccine reduce my chances of hospitalization and death?

If so, what are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I choose not to become vaccinated? What are the chances of me being hospitalized and dying if I do get vaccinated?

Yeah they're all good questions and questions that should be asked. The fact that they're trying to shut down any questions about their "science" should tell people all they need to know. Questioning science is science. It's what makes science better. Somehow the government and the media have convinced alot of people otherwise. Just goes to show that if you scare the sheep they'll go along with anything. It dosn't matter how nonsensical it is

[SATAN]

Yeah they're all good questions and questions that should be asked. The fact that they're trying to shut down any questions about their "science" should tell people all they need to know. Questioning science is science. It's what makes science better. Somehow the government and the media have convinced alot of people otherwise. Just goes to show that if you scare the sheep they'll go along with anything. It dosn't matter how nonsensical it is

You are not smart. Shut the **** up.

[SATAN]

less deadly than the typical flu.



...

[BurningHammer]

Yeah they're all good questions and questions that should be asked. The fact that they're trying to shut down any questions about their "science" should tell people all they need to know. Questioning science is science. It's what makes science better. Somehow the government and the media have convinced alot of people otherwise. Just goes to show that if you scare the sheep they'll go along with anything. It dosn't matter how nonsensical it is

Throwing vague questions knowing nobody here including oneself is smart enough to completely answer them just to confirm one's narrative is not science though. It's trolling.

[coin24]

It’s less deadly than the common flu, what a surprise the big pharma companies are telling you that you need a booster.. $$$

When will you stupid fu*ks wake up. The vax does not stop transmission or help in any way.
So much for “stop the spread” :lol

Vax cucks can’t decide which lie they believe in now

[Axe]

One big study next year is to see if soggy biscuits are effective against covid.

[JohnnySic]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHjQ6q8XIAUNEhE?format=png&name=small

[Loco 50]

Yeah they're all good questions and questions that should be asked. The fact that they're trying to shut down any questions about their "science" should tell people all they need to know. Questioning science is science. It's what makes science better. Somehow the government and the media have convinced alot of people otherwise. Just goes to show that if you scare the sheep they'll go along with anything. It dosn't matter how nonsensical it is

There is questioning science which is vital to growth and understanding and their is "questioning science" which is just mind numbing unless it comes from children.

You two are attempting to reverse established information at this point. Why? Do we really need to reestablish that gravity exists and that wheels work in transportation because of their 360 degree nature?

Vaccines are established science.
Hygiene is established science.
Non-pharmaceutical interventions are established science.
Relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction are established stats.

If either of you could actually be bothered to crack open a book you'd realize what a waste of time this arguing was.

Makes me wonder why you won't and the first two reasons that come to mind are either laziness or incapability.

Stay high on your twitter/facebook/youtube supply and stay dumb at your own discretion.

So no, they are not good questions, especially when they've already been answered and the information is out there freely available to double check.

[BurningHammer]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHjQ6q8XIAUNEhE?format=png&name=small

Twitter science :oldlol:

[Cleverness]

Non-pharmaceutical interventions are established science.

Really? Forcing two year olds to wear masks, vaccine passports, travel bans, outdoor dining bans, are all established science? Interesting. How long does it take to become "established science?"

I've asked repeatedly how many infections each of these NPIs have prevented to date, but nobody has even attempted a real answer at the number of infections prevented by them. :rolleyes:

You said "none" here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14498482&viewfull=1#post14498482 , but you were obviously saying this in jest.


Relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction are established stats.

Yes, but we do not know the ARR and RRR of hospitalization and death after becoming vaccinated.
RCTs are established science too.

[Loco 50]

Really? Forcing two year olds to wear masks, vaccine passports, travel bans, outdoor dining bans, are all established science? Interesting. How long does it take to become "established science?"

I've asked repeatedly how many infections each of these NPIs have prevented to date, but nobody has even attempted a real answer at the number of infections prevented by them. :rolleyes:

You said "none" here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14498482&viewfull=1#post14498482 , but you were obviously saying this in jest.

An NPI is a very broad category. You're freaking out about very extreme measures that are not in place nationwide. Rightfully so in some cases. Masking 2 years old won't work, travel bans only work before spread has occured, outdoor dining bans are freaking stupid, and I don't know what a vaccine passport is, but if it's anything more complicated then showing your freaking shot records then it's probably dumb. So no, those are not established science they're arbitrary decisions by people that don't know what they're doing.

Covering your mouth when you sneeze, wearing a mask when you've got a cold, washing your hands and cleaning surfaces when contacted by a sick person are established NPIs that come to my mind and are what I'm referring to. Gearing up in ppe before entering a contaminated room or performing surgery are NPIs. Social distancing indoors in large rooms is a valid NPI. All backed by plenty of research and trial and error.



Yes, but we do not know the ARR and RRR of hospitalization and death after becoming vaccinated.
RCTs are established science too.

The ARR and RRR will be the same as any other vaccine. If people were dropping dead or having any other adverse reaction at a remotely significant enough rate then those studies would be fast-tracked and completed because the concern would be validated. Otherwise, with the conditions of being stuck in reality it'd be a waste of time and money to run them.

The only folks interested in such a study are people that won't be swayed in their opinion anyway.

Once again, if the vaccines were actually killing people another company would be salivating at the opportunity to create their own safer, more effective vaccine. The fact that they're not should tell you that problems are minimal.

Edit: One of the guys pumping out bad information concerning risk of vaccination was using an incorrect formula. I'll bet that's at least in part what you've been referencing for months now. Here's the story.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claim-that-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-riskier-than-the-disease-for-children-is-based-on-an-economists-incorrect-calculation-of-the-metric-number-needed-to-vaccinate/

The immediate question anybody critically reading Roger's claim should have been why is an economist reporting stats that differ greatly from the consensus epidemiology?

Not immediately swallowing them hook, line and sinker.

[bladefd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHjQ6q8XIAUNEhE?format=png&name=small

All a pandemic is defined as is a widespread infectious disease, which COVID is. The term itself says nothing about how potent or deadly it is or isn't.

So yes, this is absolutely a 'real' pandemic even if not extremely potent.

[Cleverness]

An NPI is a very broad category. You're freaking out about very extreme measures that are not in place nationwide. Rightfully so in some cases. Masking 2 years old won't work, travel bans only work before spread has occured, outdoor dining bans are freaking stupid, and I don't know what a vaccine passport is, but if it's anything more complicated then showing your freaking shot records then it's probably dumb. So no, those are not established science they're arbitrary decisions by people that don't know what they're doing.

Covering your mouth when you sneeze, wearing a mask when you've got a cold, washing your hands and cleaning surfaces when contacted by a sick person are established NPIs that come to my mind and are what I'm referring to. Gearing up in ppe before entering a contaminated room or performing surgery are NPIs. Social distancing indoors in large rooms is a valid NPI. All backed by plenty of research and trial and error.

Most of what you're saying isn't unreasonable. But you seem to have missed my point, so I'll restate.

We've experienced about ~20+ months of gov't restrictions and we'll spend trillions of dollars using/enforcing the following NPIs:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements (In case you're not aware, some of the vaccine requirements including going to restaurants, traveling into the US, going to sporting events & concerts, attending a school, and employment.)

How many infections have each of those NPIs prevented so far?


The ARR and RRR will be the same as any other vaccine. If people were dropping dead or having any other adverse reaction at a remotely significant enough rate then those studies would be fast-tracked and completed because the concern would be validated. Otherwise, with the conditions of being stuck in reality it'd be a waste of time and money to run them.

The only folks interested in such a study are people that won't be swayed in their opinion anyway.

Once again, if the vaccines were actually killing people another company would be salivating at the opportunity to create their own safer, more effective vaccine. The fact that they're not should tell you that problems are minimal.

Edit: One of the guys pumping out bad information concerning risk of vaccination was using an incorrect formula. I'll bet that's at least in part what you've been referencing for months now. Here's the story.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claim-that-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-riskier-than-the-disease-for-children-is-based-on-an-economists-incorrect-calculation-of-the-metric-number-needed-to-vaccinate/

The immediate question anybody critically reading Roger's claim should have been why is an economist reporting stats that differ greatly from the consensus epidemiology?

Not immediately swallowing them hook, line and sinker.

I didn't say the "vaccines are killing people." I asked what the ARR/RRR of hospitalization and death is, which, imo, is a very fair question to ask, especially if we are to claim that the vaccine reduces one's chances of being hospitalized and dying and also require the vaccine to attend school, work, travel, and in some states, dine at restaurants and attend events.

[SATAN]

:oldlol:

:facepalm

[coin24]

All a pandemic is defined as is a widespread infectious disease, which COVID is. The term itself says nothing about how potent or deadly it is or isn't.

So yes, this is absolutely a 'real' pandemic even if not extremely potent.



This retard fell for it hook, line and sinker… schmuck:lol

[Bronbron23]

There is questioning science which is vital to growth and understanding and their is "questioning science" which is just mind numbing unless it comes from children.

You two are attempting to reverse established information at this point. Why? Do we really need to reestablish that gravity exists and that wheels work in transportation because of their 360 degree nature?

Vaccines are established science.
Hygiene is established science.
Non-pharmaceutical interventions are established science.
Relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction are established stats.

If either of you could actually be bothered to crack open a book you'd realize what a waste of time this arguing was.

Makes me wonder why you won't and the first two reasons that come to mind are either laziness or incapability.

Stay high on your twitter/facebook/youtube supply and stay dumb at your own discretion.

So no, they are not good questions, especially when they've already been answered and the information is out there freely available to double check.

It's not that deep dude. It's really basic common sense shit that can be solved with 3 questions.

Are the vaccines effective in controlling the spread of covid? No

Are low risk groups at at significant risk of death or hospitalizations? No

So if the vaccines aren't effective in controlling the spread and tens of millions of people in low risk groups aren't significantly at risk how do mandates make sense?

The answer is they don't.

[theman93]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/9439bd4a/covid.png

[Bronbron23]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/9439bd4a/covid.png

Yeah that's clear to anyone with a brain but that's what you get when you make decisions based on emotion instead of the actual science.

[theman93]

Yeah that's clear to anyone with a brain but that's what you get when you make decisions based on emotion instead of the actual science.

I just looked it up and over 25% of US cases are in NYC, home of the vax pass.

How is Ron DeSantis doing this??

[Bronbron23]

I just looked it up and over 25% of US cases are in NYC, home of the vax pass.

How is Ron DeSantis doing this??

I think the whole cases thing is the problem. Covid isn't something we can control or significantly reduce. It's gonna be something that eventually Everyone gets like the flu. All that matters is deaths and serious hospitalizations which are decreasing. No surprise the media, cdc and government continue to fear monger cases.

[Patrick Chewing]

I think the whole cases thing is the problem. Covid isn't something we can control or significantly reduce. It's gonna be something that eventually Everyone gets like the flu. All that matters is deaths and serious hospitalizations which are decreasing. No surprise the media, cdc and government continue to fear monger cases.

Exactly. Might as well have everyone contract Covid and come out stronger on the other end. But these idiots I crush on a daily basis on social media telling me the vaccine prevents infection and spread. :roll:

My fear is that we're still sitting in this fear-induced panic three years from now because of new variants, but in the background, no one is dying as a result. We're basically in panic mode over a cold.

[theman93]

I think the whole cases thing is the problem. Covid isn't something we can control or significantly reduce. It's gonna be something that eventually Everyone gets like the flu. All that matters is deaths and serious hospitalizations which are decreasing. No surprise the media, cdc and government continue to fear monger cases.


Exactly. Might as well have everyone contract Covid and come out stronger on the other end. But these idiots I crush on a daily basis on social media telling me the vaccine prevents infection and spread. :roll:

My fear is that we're still sitting in this fear-induced panic three years from now because of new variants, but in the background, no one is dying as a result. We're basically in panic mode over a cold.

Really guys? Come on. Mask up, vax up, and lockdown. Think of the kids.

[Bronbron23]

Exactly. Might as well have everyone contract Covid and come out stronger on the other end. But these idiots I crush on a daily basis on social media telling me the vaccine prevents infection and spread. :roll:

My fear is that we're still sitting in this fear-induced panic three years from now because of new variants, but in the background, no one is dying as a result. We're basically in panic mode over a cold.

Yeah your fear is most likely gonna happen. They're dug to far into their lies that they can't go back now. They'd rather watch the world burn than admit they were wrong. There's no rationalizing with people like this.

[Bronbron23]

Really guys? Come on. Mask up, vax up, and lockdown. Think of the kids.

Unfortunately people are so misinformed these days i can't tell if your being sarcastic or not

[jstern]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/9439bd4a/covid.png

The problem is that the vaccine cucks blame all of those cases on the unvaccinated. They literally think that the vaccine makes a person immune. Such is their echo chamber.

[theman93]

Unfortunately people are so misinformed these days i can't tell if your being sarcastic or not

I wear at least 2 masks alone in my car at all times, trust the experts by getting my 4th booster in a ~1 year span and don't ask questions, and am demanding my community leaders lock us down due to the deadly omicron variant, and you think I'm the misinformed one??

Wow. You are conspiracy theorist grandma KILLER.

[Patrick Chewing]

I wear at least 2 masks alone in my car at all times, trust the experts by getting my 4th booster in a ~1 year span and don't ask questions, and am demanding my community leaders lock us down due to the deadly omicron variant, and you think I'm the misinformed one??

Wow. You are conspiracy theorist grandma KILLER.


You're my hero. :bowdown:

[tpols]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/9439bd4a/covid.png

They've also had some of the most deaths since this all started despite the harshest lockdowns. It just comes down to the fact most people are retarded. Its too easy to manipulate or buy off large segments of the population. And NYC is sellout city with all their yuppies.

[Bronbron23]

I wear at least 2 masks alone in my car at all times, trust the experts by getting my 4th booster in a ~1 year span and don't ask questions, and am demanding my community leaders lock us down due to the deadly omicron variant, and you think I'm the misinformed one??

Wow. You are conspiracy theorist grandma KILLER.

Sarcasm it was:oldlol:

[SATAN]

Alt right incel echo chamber.

[Patrick Chewing]

Alt right incel echo chamber.

Tranny lover RRR3 ladies and gentlemen

[theman93]

You're my hero. :bowdown:

Thanks. Whatever it takes to save even one life, regardless if it brings suffering and ruin to millions.

[BurningHammer]

Alt right incel echo chamber.

You can easily see from their tendency to praise each others. :oldlol:

[coin24]

Exactly. Might as well have everyone contract Covid and come out stronger on the other end. But these idiots I crush on a daily basis on social media telling me the vaccine prevents infection and spread. :roll:

My fear is that we're still sitting in this fear-induced panic three years from now because of new variants, but in the background, no one is dying as a result. We're basically in panic mode over a cold.

Cmon man! Just 2 weeks to flatten the curve :lol

[Cleverness]

Which begs the question: how many infections have been prevented by NPIs so far? Let's break it down by NPI used:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements

It's been over a month since this post and I haven't seen any of team NPI honestly answer this question yet.

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Shogon]

PSA for anyone obsessively washing their hands or sanitizing them during this whole thing… you have a 1 in 5000 chance of dying from covid. You have a 1 in 10000 chance of surface contact transmission … which means… you have a 1 in 50 million chance of dying from a surface contact transmission of covid.

Just social distance if you want to avoid it.

[Bronbron23]

:facepalm

The more time goes by the more you and people like you are being proven wrong.

[beasted]

It's been over a month since this post and I haven't seen any of team NPI honestly answer this question yet.

Here's what I can't understand.

You don't trust when the CDC says the vaccines are safe/unsafe, don't trust when they say wearing a masks helps or doesn't help. Don't trust when they say social distancing is necessary/unnecessary, then you'll be the first to quote the CDC on infection counts and death tolls and treat it like gospel.

Seriously, help me understand. Explain it to me like I'm an infant.

[warriorfan]

Here's what I can't understand.

You don't trust when the CDC says the vaccines are safe/unsafe, don't trust when they say wearing a masks helps or doesn't help. Don't trust when they say social distancing is necessary/unnecessary, then you'll be the first to quote the CDC on infection counts and death tolls and treat it like gospel.

Seriously, help me understand. Explain it to me like I'm an infant.

Don’t trust anybody. Only get vaxed if you are fat, scared, or old. It’s just that easy.

[beasted]

Don’t trust anybody. Only get vaxed if you are fat, scared, or old. It’s just that easy.
I actually like the first sentence of this advice a lot. The second sentence is an opinion, which I'm fine with since you seemed to present it as such.

[Cleverness]

Here's what I can't understand.

You don't trust when the CDC says the vaccines are safe/unsafe, don't trust when they say wearing a masks helps or doesn't help. Don't trust when they say social distancing is necessary/unnecessary, then you'll be the first to quote the CDC on infection counts and death tolls and treat it like gospel.

Seriously, help me understand. Explain it to me like I'm an infant.

There's a difference between one's opinion of what is safe/unsafe, necessary/unnecessary, and facts/data.

Two people can look at the same facts/data and have wildly different opinions about it.

I'm questioning the Official Narrative by taking the data they present, comparing the opinions to the data, and seeing if it makes sense.

So let's begin by answering the original question.

[bison]

That’s a lot of people suffering through the common cold :lebronamazed:

[FKAri]

It's been over a month since this post and I haven't seen any of team NPI honestly answer this question yet.

It's a hard question to answer. How would you measure such a thing? Masks are the only thing for which there is concrete evidence.


PSA for anyone obsessively washing their hands or sanitizing them during this whole thing… you have a 1 in 5000 chance of dying from covid. You have a 1 in 10000 chance of surface contact transmission … which means… you have a 1 in 50 million chance of dying from a surface contact transmission of covid.

Just social distance if you want to avoid it.

Obsessively washing your hands will also weaken your immune system in general. There's a balance that needs to be found between being a grubby disease carrier and Howie Mandel.

[FultzNationRISE]

It's a hard question to answer. How would you measure such a thing? Masks are the only thing for which there is concrete evidence.



Obsessively washing your hands will also weaken your immune system in general. There's a balance that needs to be found between being a grubby disease carrier and Howie Mandel.


So will chornic mask wearing.

Well, masks that work anyway. Which is probably not most of them.

[beasted]

There's a difference between one's opinion of what is safe/unsafe, necessary/unnecessary, and facts/data.

Two people can look at the same facts/data and have wildly different opinions about it.

I'm questioning the Official Narrative by taking the data they present, comparing the opinions to the data, and seeing if it makes sense.

So let's begin by answering the original question.

I think all of your big words either confused me or you dodged the question. Remember I asked to keep it simple.

I'll rephrase using part of your response and plead with you again to explain your answer in the simplest of ways possible:

If I don't trust the CDC's opinion of the data of Covid-19 safety guidelines, why would I trust their opinion of any data? Data that they interpret to count or don't count a Covid-19 infection or death?

If I need to make the question simpler I can, just let me know.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think all of your big words either confused me or you dodged the question. Remember I asked to keep it simple.

I'll rephrase using part of your response and plead with you again to explain your answer in the simplest of ways possible:

If I don't trust the CDC's opinion of the data of Covid-19 safety guidelines, why would I trust their opinion of any data? Data that they interpret to count or don't count a Covid-19 infection or death?

If I need to make the question simpler I can, just let me know.

Here's a good rule of thumb: The CDC is always going to over-play the numbers or what they mean.

So if they say numbers are high, it probably means numbers are middling. If they say numbers have gone down, they've probably gone down even farther than what's reported.

Either way, it probably makes his point. It's never as bad as the CDC is telling you.

[beasted]

Here's a good rule of thumb: The CDC is always going to over-play the numbers or what they mean.

So if they say the numbers are high, it probably means they numbers are middling. If the CDC says the numbers have gone down, they've probably gone down even farther than what's being reported.

Either way, it's probably making his point. It's never as bad as the CDC is telling you.
In more concise terms, I think what you're saying is the CDC is untrustworthy regardless of the data being presented.

This is logic I can stand behind. It makes sense to me at least.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think what you're saying is the CDC is untrustworthy regardless of the data being presented.

This is logic I can stand behind. It makes sense to me at least.

Yes, but they're untrustworthy in the sense they're always going to overplay the threat.

So I think his point is that if someone online is proclaiming something extreme, which even the CDC is not saying... then it's probably a gross exaggeration.

[beasted]

Yes, but they're untrustworthy in the sense they're always going to overplay the threat.

So I think his point is that if someone online is proclaiming something extreme, which even the CDC is not saying... then it's probably a gross exaggeration.

No, I don't think that's what he's saying... But that's why I asked him to re-explain himself.

What I think he was saying was (and this is me simplifying to the level I'm looking for):

The CDC has reported a lot of deaths and infections related to Covid-19. How much of their advice to limit the spread has actually worked?

To me this is a rhetorical question if I didn't trust their advice in the first place, I'm not going to trust what they say on infection rates because it could be tainted with bias. But it's a question that people ask unnecessarily to promote an agenda.

I rather people say either to trust the CDC and everything they advise and report, or people to say don't trust anything from the CDC. Can't double dip though.

[Cleverness]

I think all of your big words either confused me or you dodged the question. Remember I asked to keep it simple.

I'll rephrase using part of your response and plead with you again to explain your answer in the simplest of ways possible:

If I don't trust the CDC's opinion of the data of Covid-19 safety guidelines, why would I trust their opinion of any data? Data that they interpret to count or don't count a Covid-19 infection or death?

If I need to make the question simpler I can, just let me know.

Which words were too big for you?

We'll start over so it's clear:

I'm questioning the Official Narrative by taking the data they present, comparing the opinions to the data, and seeing if it makes sense. If you don't think the Official Narrative makes sense, and you don't believe any of the NPIs were necessary, then my question isn't for you anyway.

Do you trust the data? Do you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs? If so, which NPIs have you supported and when?

[Cleverness]

No, I don't think that's what he's saying... But that's why I asked him to re-explain himself.

What I think he was saying was (and this is me simplifying to the level I'm looking for):

The CDC has reported a lot of deaths and infections related to Covid-19. How much of their advice to limit the spread has actually worked?

To me this is a rhetorical question if I didn't trust their advice in the first place, I'm not going to trust what they say on infection rates because it could be tainted with bias. But it's a question that people ask unnecessarily to promote an agenda.

I rather people say either to trust the CDC and everything they advise and report, or people to say don't trust anything from the CDC. Can't double dip though.

Whether or not I trust their data or agree with their conclusions/opinions is irrelevant. I am investigating their narrative.

[Cleverness]

It's a hard question to answer. How would you measure such a thing? Masks are the only thing for which there is concrete evidence.

We have many studies estimating the number of infections that would be prevented in the future if we did x, as well as studies estimating how many infections would be prevented if y interventions were used at different dates and times in the past. Do you think it's more difficult to predict/estimate the future without the data (#infections) or estimate the past knowing with the data (#infections)?

What "concrete evidence" is there for masks preventing infections? How many masks have been worn in the US so far? How many infections have they prevented in the US so far? If you don't know, try looking for a study that estimates it.

[Cleverness]

I rather people say either to trust the CDC and everything they advise and report, or people to say don't trust anything from the CDC. Can't double dip though.

If a guy claims he's the best one-on-one basketball player in the world, while also saying he's lost his last 100 one-on-one matches, I don't need to believe he's the best one-on-one player to ask why he's lost his last 100 matches or ask for his overall record.

Whether or not I believe he's the best one-on-one player is irrelevant because I am questioning his narrative. I am not "double dipping" anything.

[beasted]

Whether or not I trust their data or agree with their conclusions/opinions is irrelevant. I am investigating their narrative.

How do you investigate someone using their own info? This is like the police investigating the police. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think I still have all my marbles.

I guess what I'm asking is, what conclusion are we looking to draw here other than the CDC is untrustworthy? That's a serious question BTW.

If the CDC says wear a mask, and then infection rates don't go down later, my conclusion = their advice was not trustworthy. If the CDC says wear a mask and then they post numbers that show infection rates dropping, my conclusion = their data may be biased by either anecdotal evidence or they are purposely skewing numbers to support their own advice thus they are untrustworthy.

I'm seriously not trolling, just trying to simplify the logic in this discussion.

[Cleverness]

How do you investigate someone using their own info? This is like the police investigating the police. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think I still have all my marbles.

I guess what I'm asking is, what conclusion are we looking to draw here other than the CDC is untrustworthy? That's a serious question BTW.

If the CDC says wear a mask, and then infection rates don't go down later, my conclusion = their advice was not trustworthy. If the CDC says wear a mask and then they post numbers that show infection rates dropping, my conclusion = their data may be biased by either anecdotal evidence or they are purposely skewing numbers to support their own advice thus they are untrustworthy.

I'm seriously not trolling, just trying to simplify the logic in this discussion.

What is their own info on the number of cumulative infections prevented so far in the US by each of those NPIs?

[beasted]

What is their own info on the number of cumulative infections prevented so far in the US by each of those NPIs?

To answer that question I would most definitely be using some of their own reports. The other problem is there HAVE been pharmaceutical interventions. So how would anyone be able to pinpoint any of the NPIs? This is not a static model it's dynamic. All science is based on mostly static data. But end of the day the only conclusion is they are untrustworthy as stated above. I really still don't get what other conclusion we're looking for here.

[Cleverness]

You jump to conclusions too quickly. Once we get the answers we can start coming up with conclusions.

How many infections have been prevented pharmaceutical interventions?


Which words were too big for you?

We'll start over so it's clear:

I'm questioning the Official Narrative by taking the data they present, comparing the opinions to the data, and seeing if it makes sense. If you don't think the Official Narrative makes sense, and you don't believe any of the NPIs were necessary, then my question isn't for you anyway.

Do you trust the data? Do you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs? If so, which NPIs have you supported and when?

You also haven't answered these (specifically the three questions at the bottom).

[beasted]

You jump to conclusions too quickly. Once we get the answers we can start coming up with conclusions.

How many infections have been prevented pharmaceutical interventions?
This is a completely pointless exercise. I'll play along to show how completely useless this is.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

This data estimates a 9%-11% reduction in infection. Now tell us, what are we supposed to do with this data?


You also haven't answered these (specifically the three questions at the bottom).

What, if any, preventative measures I've taken have no relevance on the trustworthiness of the CDC which is my own simplification of your topic (you refuse to simplify the core issue being discussed in such a fashion).

[Cleverness]

Where in that link does it say that masks have reduced the number of cumulative infections in the USA by 9-11%?

I'm not asking which measures you've taken in your personal life. I asked if you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs, and, if so, which NPIs have you supported and when. For example, do you agree that travel restrictions have been necessary?

[beasted]

Where in that link does it say that masks have reduced the number of cumulative infections in the USA by 9-11%?

I'm not asking which measures you've taken in your personal life. I asked if you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs, and, if so, which NPIs have you supported and when. For example, do you agree that travel restrictions have been necessary?

Not clear what you're asking for. There's only going to be data that says "in X environment we found X" as I already stated that science is based on static analysis. There's not going to be any science that says "since we observed X in X environment, with 100% certainty this will happen in all other environments, and we can guarantee X outcome". When they made the original recommendations they never projected an exact reduction, why are you looking for a number now?

[Cleverness]

Not clear what you're asking for. There's only going to be data that says "in X environment we found X" as I already stated that science is based on static analysis. There's not going to be any science that says "since we observed X in X environment, with 100% certainty this will happen in all other environments, and we can guarantee X outcome". When they made the original recommendations they never projected an exact reduction, why are you looking for a number now?

It's pretty clear what I'm asking for - the number of cumulative Covid-19 infections prevented by NPIs in the US.

What is the reasoning for the NPIs? What is the achievable goal?

[beasted]

It's pretty clear what I'm asking for - the number of cumulative Covid-19 infections prevented by NPIs in the US.

What is the reasoning for the NPIs? What is the achievable goal?

If that's what you're asking for this is by far the stupidest topic ever. No hyperbole whatsoever.

This idiotic logic can be applied to anything. "What is the point of practicing? Show me proof of how many points the team scored due to practicing!" "What is the point of an oil change every 5k miles? Show me proof of exactly how many engines have lasted longer as a result of oil changes every 5k miles!"

That's what this is topic is the equivalent of.

Experts run studies in controlled environments that they believe will mimic real world conditions and then make recommendations. Those recommendations are not meant to be exact projections.

Mind you, I already said that nothing from the CDC should be trusted. You should have made the point you're trying to make, but weren't satisfied and instead helped prove precisely how useless this discussion is. Thank you for making my point.

[Cleverness]

I asked several questions and you have had no answers for any of them so far. Lots of text, but no answers.

And asking for the benefits of policies isn't the stupidest topic ever, nor is asking for the achievable goals of said policies.

[Cleverness]

Practicing and oil changes have goals - winning the game, making an engine lasting longer.

Again, you haven't even answered what the goal of these policies are.

[Nanners]

Imagine being stupid enough to think that a cloth or plastic mask does anything whatsoever stop a virus that spreads through aerosols


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il-5HVmmMXE

[beasted]

Practicing and oil changes have goals - winning the game, making an engine lasting longer.

Again, you haven't even answered what the goal of these policies are.

You really don't think there was a goal? I think you know what their goal was, however misinformed or misguided you believe the goal was. Don't play dumb. It's there in the link that they made a recommendation to wear masks intending to reduce the spread of Covid-19 because X conditions produced X results.

The problem is you're asking for proof of exactly how many engines have been saved due to an oil change which can never be proven. BTW, oil change intervals are a real life hotly contested debate topic. If someone literally argued that argument the same way you are doing this one, they would only have to say "show proof of exactly how many engines have lasted longer" to create a stalemate.

Now, I've answered, but you still have dodged answering what conclusion we're trying to draw other than the CDC is untrustworthy.

[Cleverness]

How can the goal be to reduce the spread of the virus if we also expect every American to be exposed to the virus? The CDC even admitted in March 2020 that most Americans would be exposed by end of 2020 or 2021.

Engine failure is a bad comparison because we don't expect most car engines to fail within a year or two due to oil issues.

[Nanners]

Libtards: the only way to stop the spread and end this pandemic is if everyone gets vaccinated and follows the rules!

Meanwhile, back in reality -

https://i.ibb.co/XFRYzRt/1643400069306.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/QHj3RCf/FIm-Z9-JRVk-AYj-O70.jpg

[beasted]

How can the goal be to reduce the spread of the virus if we also expect every American to be exposed to the virus? The CDC even admitted in March 2020 that most Americans would be exposed by end of 2020 or 2021.

Engine failure is a bad comparison because we don't expect most car engines to fail within a year or two due to oil issues.
I actually think it's a perfect analogy, just your perspective is off on the timeline. They never defined the goal in specifics which is all you've been asking for. And you STILL haven't answered.

[Cleverness]

I actually think it's a perfect analogy, just your perspective is off on the timeline. They never defined the goal in specifics which is all you've been asking for. And you STILL haven't answered.

Is the goal to stop the spread (eradicate virus) or slow the spread (reduce spread over x amount of time)?

Answered what, this question? "You really don't think there was a goal?" The only goal I remember from the gov't is to slow the spread to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.

[Cleverness]

Also, the analogy is not perfect because your perspective is off on the timeline. If an intervention, such as an oil change, extends the engine's lifespan by 5 days would it be worth it? What if it extends the engine's lifespan by 50 days? 500 days? 5000 days? The timeline matters.

[Nanners]

Is the goal to stop the spread (eradicate virus) or slow the spread (reduce spread over x amount of time)?

Answered what, this question? "You really don't think there was a goal?" The only goal I remember from the gov't is to slow the spread to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.

the goal was to flatten the curve, and considering the curve is currently parallel to the Y-axis in every highly vaccinated western state they may have finally achieved their goal

[Cleverness]

the goal was to flatten the curve, and considering the curve is currently parallel to the Y-axis in every highly vaccinated western state they may have finally achieved their goal

https://demotix.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Donald-Trump-3.jpg

Right. The goal was to slow the spread over 15 days to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed. This was also parroted on the CDC's website.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Covid-19_flatten_the_curve_-_cropped_version_%28no_cartoon%29.gif

The goal seemed accomplished after 15 days (mostly due to the virus hospitalizing people at a tiny fraction of the predicted rate) and the reasons for continuing restrictions became unclear once all field hospitals were torn down in spring 2020 and Navy ships sailed out without seeing any patients.

[Nanners]

libtard: All you racist/sexist chuds need to get vaxxed because muh ICUs are almost full!

sane person: Yes, ICUs are designed so that they are always almost full, because having too many empty ICU beds is a huge waste of money. Virtually every hospital in this country is owned by a private equity firm, and they run these facilities in a way that maximizes their financial efficiency (which means no empty beds and no extra staff beyond the absolute bare minimum)

libtard: bbbbut... the science... muh ICUs....

[beasted]

Also, the analogy is not perfect because your perspective is off on the timeline. If an intervention, such as an oil change, extends the engine's lifespan by 5 days would it be worth it? What if it extends the engine's lifespan by 50 days? 500 days? 5000 days? The timeline matters.

Yes, this is where YOUR perspective is lost to view from all angles, and determine what is fact and what is opinion.

If facts exist that doing the oil change will extend the engine's life, so be it. That's their job to make a recommendation that they think helps. Not their job to say this oil change will make your engine last exactly XXXX miles.

You never argued that having a working engine for an extra 5 days wasn't worth it. You instead argued that the oil change simply didn't help.

See, this is where respecting all perspectives comes in, that a lot of people can't fathom. Some may say, why even do an oil change if it only extends the engine life for 5 days?

Well, what's the cost of not having that working engine for those 5 days? Do you have a way to get to work otherwise? Is working those 5 days going to get you to your next paycheck which allows you to have the money do the proper repair? That's a valid opinion.

Yet another person may say from a different perspective "yes doing that oil change helps, but the 5 days is only an estimate, what happens if it only takes me to 3.5 days and I get stranded on the highway. Not only will I now have an engine that's toast, but I have to pay to tow it to the junkyard". This opinion is ALSO valid.

But none of these people should say that doing the oil change didn't help. And that's really the crux of the issue. At best they could say that a better decision could be made with all circumstances considered.

Fact: Doing the oil change helps. Opinion: what's the best course of action to get the car fixed.

[beasted]

Answered what, this question?.

What conclusion can be drawn from this thread other than to suggest that the CDC is untrustworthy?

I've already explained with straight forward rationale why the data vs recommendations is indefensible.

Either you have to trust the CDC or distrust the CDC.

[Cleverness]

Yes, this is where YOUR perspective is lost to view from all angles, and determine what is fact and what is opinion.

If facts exist that doing the oil change will extend the engine's life, so be it. That's their job to make a recommendation that they think helps. Not their job to say this oil change will make your engine last exactly XXXX miles.

You never argued that having a working engine for an extra 5 days wasn't worth it. You instead argued that the oil change simply didn't help.

See, this is where respecting all perspectives comes in, that a lot of people can't fathom. Some may say, why even do an oil change if it only extends the engine life for 5 days?

Well, what's the cost of not having that working engine for those 5 days? Do you have a way to get to work otherwise? Is working those 5 days going to get you to your next paycheck which allows you to have the money do the proper repair? That's a valid opinion.

Yet another person may say from a different perspective "yes doing that oil change helps, but the 5 days is only an estimate, what happens if it only takes me to 3.5 days and I get stranded on the highway. Not only will I now have an engine that's toast, but I have to pay to tow it to the junkyard". This opinion is ALSO valid.

But none of these people should say that doing the oil change didn't help. And that's really the crux of the issue. At best they could say that a better decision could be made with all circumstances considered.

Fact: Doing the oil change helps. Opinion: what's the best course of action to get the car fixed.

If the engine's lifespan is 5000 days and the oil change extends it to 5005 days, then would it be worth it? You're forgetting days 5006-5010.

Also, there's no National State of Emergency for oil changes costing $10 trillion and affecting the lives of hundreds of millions of people. If there was, I'd be expecting a very solid case for the emergency.

[Cleverness]

As I said earlier:


If you don't think the Official Narrative makes sense, and you don't believe any of the NPIs were necessary, then my question isn't for you anyway.

It sounds like you believe that the Official Narrative does not make sense and you don't believe any of the NPIs were necessary, so again, my question wasn't for you to begin with.

But let's recap what I've asked you in this thread:

1) How many infections have NPIs prevented so far? You haven't answered or given an estimate. If you don't know of any studies that even estimate it, then say so.

2) Do you trust the data? You've said you don't trust the CDC... I'm assuming this means you don't trust the data they look at (you think it's fudged?) and you don't agree with their conclusions.

3) Do you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs? If so, which NPIs have you supported and when? Haven't had a clear answer to this yet.

4) What is the reasoning for the NPIs? What is the achievable goal? You said to "reduce spread," but how can the goal be to reduce the spread of the virus if we also expect every American to be exposed to the virus? The CDC even admitted in March 2020 that most Americans would be exposed by end of 2020 or 2021. Again, no follow-up by you.

5) Is the goal to stop the spread (eradicate virus) or slow the spread (reduce spread over x amount of time)? No answer to this one either.

It seems like you're really fixed on oil changes, but maybe if there were thousands of studies within the past two years regarding oil changes, a $10 trillion National State of Emergency with massive interventions affecting hundreds of millions of people around oil changes, and we expected nearly everyone's car to experience engine failure due to oil issues related to lack of oil changes within the next year or two, then maybe it would be a good comparison.

[Cleverness]

What conclusion can be drawn from this thread other than to suggest that the CDC is untrustworthy?

I've already explained with straight forward rationale why the data vs recommendations is indefensible.

Either you have to trust the CDC or distrust the CDC.

No, I already explained with straight forward rationale why it's entirely plausible to trust data and not agree with someone's conclusion from that data. You see it all the time, really, even on this very forum RE basketball players... people posting data and concluding that x player is the GOAT or overrated, and you can either agree or disagree with their conclusion, but if you disagree, it doesn't mean you have to distrust the data as well.

[beasted]

If the engine's lifespan is 5000 days and the oil change extends it to 5005 days, then would it be worth it? You're forgetting days 5006-5010.

Also, there's no National State of Emergency for oil changes costing $10 trillion and affecting the lives of hundreds of millions of people. If there was, I'd be expecting a very solid case for the emergency.

The problem is you're flatly stating that the oil change didn't help AT ALL, you've NEVER made a point it wasn't worth it. That's not a fact it's an opinion.

[Cleverness]

The problem is you're flatly stating that the oil change didn't help AT ALL, you've NEVER made a point it wasn't worth it. That's not a fact it's an opinion.

A lot of talk about oil changes, but not much answering of the questions above.

And when did I flatly say the oil change didn't help at all? Obviously in the example it extended the engine's lifespan by 5 days.

[theman93]

In November of 2020, National Progressive Radio (NPR) posted this article: Government Model Suggests U.S. COVID-19 Cases Could Be Approaching 100 Million (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million)

Today, using the latest CDC Model would suggest that cumulative US Covid Cases are ~203 Million. Link (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html). (4.0 x 50.8m cases = 203.2 million cases)

Which begs the question: how many infections have been prevented by NPIs so far? Let's break it down by NPI used:

-mass testing
-tracing
-stay-at-home orders
-business restrictions
-school closures
-mask mandates
-travel bans
-vaccine passports/requirements

I see blade, Loco50, and the rest of the mainstream worshipping crew still haven't answered your basic questions. They may just have a full on meltdown when they read the following...

From Johns Hopkins University -


An analysis of each of these three groups support the conclusion that lockdowns have had little to no effect on COVID-19 mortality.

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

[Cleverness]

I see blade, Loco50, and the rest of the mainstream worshipping crew still haven't answered your basic questions. They may just have a full on meltdown when they read the following...

From Johns Hopkins University -



https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

Yeah. We're still waiting for bladefd to respond here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?501016-BREAKING-SCOTUS-blocks-Biden-s-vaccine-mandate&p=14525125&viewfull=1#post14525125 . The cognitive dissonance must have set in and he bailed. I also responded to Loco here, but he also bailed and never honestly answered: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500139-CDC-Model-Suggests-US-Covid-Cases-At-200-Million&p=14502460&viewfull=1#post14502460

and this guy beasted thinks his analogy of oil changes if perfect, but there are major flaws. For example, oil changes are done for as long as there's a possibility of the car's engine failing due to oil issues. The goal is to extend the life of the car as long as possible. But is the goal of NPIs to prevent as many infections as possible until there is nobody left to infect? We don't know because we don't even know the goal of the NPIs. See 4) and 5) below


1) How many infections have NPIs prevented so far? You haven't answered or given an estimate. If you don't know of any studies that even estimate it, then say so.

2) Do you trust the data? You've said you don't trust the CDC... I'm assuming this means you don't trust the data they look at (you think it's fudged?) and you don't agree with their conclusions.

3) Do you/have you agreed with the CDC's positions on any NPIs? If so, which NPIs have you supported and when? Haven't had a clear answer to this yet.

4) What is the reasoning for the NPIs? What is the achievable goal? You said to "reduce spread," but how can the goal be to reduce the spread of the virus if we also expect every American to be exposed to the virus? The CDC even admitted in March 2020 that most Americans would be exposed by end of 2020 or 2021. Again, no follow-up by you.

5) Is the goal to stop the spread (eradicate virus) or slow the spread (reduce spread over x amount of time)? No answer to this one either.

[Cleverness]

Approaching 311 million cumulative estimated infections so far (albeit, outdated model). US population ~328 million.

So... Anyone know what the goal of the NPIs is/was? Is the goal of NPIs to slow the spread as much as possible until there is nobody left to infect?

Is the goal to stop the spread (eradicate virus) or slow the spread (reduce spread over x amount of time)?