Which do you consider the better shooter?

[iamgine]

Someone like Dirk. Guy was 7'0. Was a high level shooter but certainly was helped by his height to generate easier shots, whether it's 3s or midrange.

Versus a guy like Kobe. Not short by any means but clearly made plenty of tougher shots than Dirk. But perhaps with lower overall efficiency.

Versus a guy like Korver. Very high machine-like efficiency but mostly at catch and shoot 3s and rely on teammates to get him open looks.



Which of these three types would you call the best shooter?

[SATAN]

Korver is one of the best shooters of all time :confusedshrug:

[Baller789]

As a pure shooter Korver.
Overall shooter Dirk.
Kobe is a pure scorer.

[Pip' N Rodman]

Not the guy who missed the most shots in NBA History

[Bronbron23]

Not the guy who missed the most shots in NBA History

Yeah well at least he's in the convo unlike some players who aren't even in the top 500 all time when it comes to shooting:oldlol:

[Airupthere]

As a pure shooter Korver.
Overall shooter Dirk.
Kobe is a pure scorer.

This sums it up well

[John_Connor]

kobe is the best contested shot maker ever. dirk is top 5 though with bird, Durant and tmac as the other 3. Jordan is probly 6th

[Bronbron23]

kobe is the best contested shot maker ever. dirk is top 5 though with bird, Durant and tmac as the other 3. Jordan is probly 6th

I don't know mj was just as good or better at making tough shots like kobe he was just smarter and better so he didn't have to take them as often

[John_Connor]

I don't know mj was just as good or better at making tough shots like kobe he was just smarter and better so he didn't have to take them as often

the other guys are ahead of mj cause they made those shots from anywhere over mid court. Jordan needed to be wide open from 3. he wasn't double clutching over 2 guys from distance or just rising over them lol

[ShawkFactory]

I’d say Dirk overall. He had no weakness as a shooter.

Better pure shooter than Kobe as well. He was obviously taller but Kobe had the quickness advantage so it’s close to evening out.

[Baller789]

kobe is the best contested shot maker ever. dirk is top 5 though with bird, Durant and tmac as the other 3. Jordan is probly 6th

Yeah, but saying someone is a better "tough shot maker" is a sort of backhanded compliment. :D

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah, but saying someone is a better "tough shot maker" is a sort of backhanded compliment. :D

Yea it’s kind like saying a center fielder is better at making diving catches than one who can get to the same ball standing up.

[Bronbron23]

the other guys are ahead of mj cause they made those shots from anywhere over mid court. Jordan needed to be wide open from 3. he wasn't double clutching over 2 guys from distance or just rising over them lol

He didn't do it alot because again he was good enough that he didn't need to but he could and did do it. Can't really penalize mj for being so athletic, skilled and elite off ball that he could usually get better looks.

[Bronbron23]

Yea it’s kind like saying a center fielder is better at making diving catches than one who can get to the same ball standing up.

Pretty much this

[Baller789]

He didn't do it alot because again he was good enough that he didn't need to but he could and did do it. Can't really penalize mj for being so athletic, skilled and elite off ball that he could usually get better looks.

That off ball movement and ability to get open is one of the reasons Mike made it look easy.

Let's not forget that a lot of the modern superstars lack this skillset, and are only useful with ball in hand.

[Bronbron23]

That off ball movement and ability to get open is one of the reasons Mike made it look easy.

Let's not forget that a lot of the modern superstars lack this skillset, and are only useful with ball in hand.

Yeah people sleep on off ball movement in this era. It's crazy because curry who is arguably the best scorer in this generation is probably the goat off ball mover but all people want to focus on is his handles and crazy long distance shots.

[John_Connor]

Yeah, but saying someone is a better "tough shot maker" is a sort of backhanded compliment. :D

no it isn't. defensive intensity picks up at the end of games and in the playoffs so you need a guy that can hit high degree of difficulty shots. especially for momentum breakers/makers on the road. a good example is this game. if kobe was only comfortable shooting open and passed under these circumstances the Lakers probly lose


https://youtu.be/JiCK3SuRrrY

[John_Connor]

Yea it’s kind like saying a center fielder is better at making diving catches than one who can get to the same ball standing up.

sorry but Ken griffey jr made plays nobody could make without diving or jumping. that makes absolutely zero sense. sometimes you can be the best and still need that something extra. the ball is always capable of going farther and higher than even the fastest or smartest outfielder. and the defense can always adjust and rotate quicker than the fastest or toughest player. hence lebrons struggles vs iggy, kawhi, diaw and others trying to shoot contested mid range

[Baller789]

no it isn't. defensive intensity picks up at the end of games and in the playoffs so you need a guy that can hit high degree of difficulty shots. especially for momentum breakers/makers on the road. a good example is this game. if kobe was only comfortable shooting open and passed under these circumstances the Lakers probly lose


https://youtu.be/JiCK3SuRrrY

Except Kobe does it frequently in the middle of the games which shows his poor shot selection to the detriment of his team a lot of times.

[John_Connor]

Except Kobe does it frequently in the middle of the games which shows his poor shot selection to the detriment of his team a lot of times.

have you ever watched basketball. there's momentum swings and runs that go back and forth. a highly contested kobe shot can be like a time out that kills the opposing crowd or lights up the home fans and in basketball it counts for a lot. which is why home court is so important. it's why kobes best games seemingly came on the road a lot of the time. he could control the crowd.

[ShawkFactory]

sorry but Ken griffey jr made plays nobody could make without diving or jumping. that makes absolutely zero sense. sometimes you can be the best and still need that something extra. the ball is always capable of going farther and higher than even the fastest or smartest outfielder. and the defense can always adjust and rotate quicker than the fastest or toughest player. hence lebrons struggles vs iggy, kawhi, diaw and others trying to shoot contested mid range

Did you just ignore what I said? I didn’t say anything about Griffey (although Andruw Jones is the GOAT center fielder)

But anyway..if the same ball is hit and one guy has to dive to catch and the other doesn’t, that means the guy who doesn’t have to dive has more range and can get to more things..and is thus better. It’s pretty simple.

Same thing applies here.

[Baller789]

have you ever watched basketball. there's momentum swings and runs that go back and forth. a highly contested kobe shot can be like a time out that kills the opposing crowd or lights up the home fans and in basketball it counts for a lot. which is why home court is so important. it's why kobes best games seemingly came on the road a lot of the time. he could control the crowd.

Kobe's poor shot selection has been his achille's heel throughout his carreer wether you agree with it or not.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe's poor shot selection has been his achille's heel throughout his carreer wether you agree with it or not.

Seriously. There are PLENTY of scenarios where Kobe took poor shots towards the ends of games that cost his team. Just because he only remembers the ones that go in is no ones fault but his own.

And it makes it difficult to argue with.

[Axe]

Kobe's poor shot selection has been his achille's heel throughout his carreer wether you agree with it or not.
While your achilles' heel is not being able to ignore lebron fans/jordan haters in this board. :(

[Baller789]

Seriously. There are PLENTY of scenarios where Kobe took poor shots towards the ends of games that cost his team. Just because he only remembers the ones that go in is no ones fault but his own.

And it makes it difficult to argue with.

Yeah. And he just went through your talking points.

And he even justifies the highly contested shot that turns the games' momentum, as if kobe shoots those at 50%.

[Baller789]

While your achilles' heel is not being able to ignore lebron fans/jordan haters. :(

Nah my weakness is I'm your dup remember?

[Axe]

Wow i immediately get a response from this puppy maybe a little bit just less than a minute. :biggums:

[Baller789]

Wow i immediately get a response from this puppy maybe a little bit just less than a minute. :biggums:

Yes master.

[John_Connor]

Did you just ignore what I said? I didn’t say anything about Griffey (although Andruw Jones is the GOAT center fielder)

But anyway..if the same ball is hit and one guy has to dive to catch and the other doesn’t, that means the guy who doesn’t have to dive has more range and can get to more things..and is thus better. It’s pretty simple.

Same thing applies here.

and like I said. the ball can always go farther and higher than even the fastest man ever. and if he can jump or dive to get that extra bit of distance or height to make a play on a ball that would normally be a hit then that player is more valuable on defense

your logic doesn't make sense. Kobe is making the impossible possible. any other guy but like 5 or 6 players in history have to pass up most of these shots. and then you're putting the ball in the hands of Luke Walton or Jordan farmar or some other regular guy possibly and then they're probably choking cause they're not built for it.

kobes point per shot for 17 year was on par with jordan. his style didn't inhibit his efficiency because it also created more contact that got him to the line more often and it also enabled him to knock down threes at 34% prior to his Achilles rupture which I'd over 50% shooting on 2s. so both made up for the 45% fgs. so even while taking the most difficult shots ever that other people would fail at kobe made a career out of it and a top 5 or 6 all time legacy

[Axe]

Yes master.
Ok back to your cage now, twerp.

[ShawkFactory]

and like I said. the ball can always go farther and higher than even the fastest man ever. and if he can jump or dive to get that extra bit of distance or height to make a play on a ball that would normally be a hit then that player is more valuable on defense

your logic doesn't make sense. Kobe is making the impossible possible. any other guy but like 5 or 6 players in history have to pass up most of these shots. and then you're putting the ball in the hands of Luke Walton or Jordan farmar or some other regular guy possibly and then they're probably choking cause they're not built for it.

kobes point per shot for 17 year was on par with jordan. his style didn't inhibit his efficiency because it also created more contact that got him to the line more often and it also enabled him to knock down threes at 34% prior to his Achilles rupture which I'd over 50% shooting on 2s. so both made up for the 45% fgs. so even while taking the most difficult shots ever that other people would fail at kobe made a career out of it and a top 5 or 6 all time legacy

Yes..and those balls are called home runs. Defense doesn’t come in to play anymore.

There’s a limit. And if someone can reach it by not needing to dive as much then they’re better. The numbers back it up too.

[Baller789]

Ok back to your cage now, twerp.

No I still wanna play master.

[Axe]

No I still wanna play master.
After you eat your poop first, hijo. 💩

[Baller789]

After you eat your poop first, hijo. ��
Sure I'll eat my poop. I'm you. :rockon:

[Axe]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827250&dateline=1609584123&type=thumb

[Baller789]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827250&dateline=1609584123&type=thumb

https://i.ibb.co/pLxhXnK/IMG-20211222-011203.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[John_Connor]

Yes..and those balls are called home runs. Defense doesn’t come in to play anymore.

There’s a limit. And if someone can reach it by not needing to dive as much then they’re better. The numbers back it up too.


have you ever watched baseball. even the fastest outfielder can't catch up to a shot to the gap sometimes. and there's tons of line drives you gotta jump for that don't go over the fence. and even when they do you can jump and steal homeruns like griffey did. please stop making an ass out of yourself. this is just becoming sad stick to basketball because baseball obviously isn't your sport. i know nearly as much about baseball as basketball so I'm just cringing right now at your take.

[Axe]

https://c.tenor.com/g36c4hl97UYAAAAC/cigarettes-smoke.gif
:milton

[RRR3]

Did you just ignore what I said? I didn’t say anything about Griffey (although Andruw Jones is the GOAT center fielder)

But anyway..if the same ball is hit and one guy has to dive to catch and the other doesn’t, that means the guy who doesn’t have to dive has more range and can get to more things..and is thus better. It’s pretty simple.

Same thing applies here.
I hope you just mean the GOAT defensively cuz I can name so many centerfielders who were superior overall

[Baller789]

:milton

https://i.ibb.co/pLxhXnK/IMG-20211222-011203.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

have you ever watched baseball. even the fastest outfielder can't catch up to a shot to the gap sometimes. and there's tons of line drives you gotta jump for that don't go over the fence. and even when they do you can jump and steal homeruns like griffey did. please stop making an ass out of yourself. this is just becoming sad stick to basketball because baseball obviously isn't your sport. i know nearly as much about baseball as basketball so I'm just cringing right now at your take.

I’ve said this to you before but your lack of awareness is astonishing. Again: I wasn’t talking about Ken Griffey. I mean you’re wrong about him being the GOAT on defense in center. But that doesn’t and never did have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

You’re talking about diving in a vacuum and ignoring other skill sets involved with being a center fielder tracking a baseball (judgement off the bat, speed, angle taken, etc). In the initial scenario I laid out for you, the same exact ball was hit. One guy had to dive to catch It, the other didn’t. You then made it about Griffey and diving being better overall because they can get balls that are farther away. IN THIS SCENARIO (which again you seem to lack awareness or ability to understand simple things people are saying to you)...the guy CANNOT. By having to dive he is maxing out his range. They other guy, by virtue of not having to dive, still has extra room that he can cover. So unbelievably simple.

The same goes for tough shots. Jordan could get off an easy 21 footer using a variety of skills and gifts that Kobe didn’t have at quite the same level. He’s not forced to dive because he doesn’t have to. And basketball is different in this instance because Jordan IS the farthest a ball can be hit. No one could stop him from getting his shot. Kobe had to dive to do what Jordan didn’t have to.

Your point per shot vs defensive intensity mix up was mistake in your end. As you know the PPS difference between the two increases the further into the playoffs we get.

[ShawkFactory]

I hope you just mean the GOAT defensively cuz I can name so many centerfielders who were superior overall

Yea just defensively

[RRR3]

Yea just defensively
Oh ok yeah. I was gonna say some of his contemporaries at the position were quite a bit better offensively (Edmonds, Beltran, Griffey Jr).

[ShawkFactory]

Oh ok yeah. I was gonna say some of his contemporaries at the position were quite a bit better offensively (Edmonds, Beltran, Griffey Jr).

No he wasn’t close to the overall hitter they were but in his prime he couldn’t be fvcked with in the field. I remember at the all star game in Atlanta in 2000 Willie Mays told Andruw he was the best he’s ever seen.

[RRR3]

No he wasn’t close to the overall hitter they were but in his prime he couldn’t be fvcked with in the field. I remember at the all star game in Atlanta in 2000 Willie Mays told Andruw he was the best he’s ever seen.
Yeah. I was a baseball fanatic from 2002-2011. My childhood. Basketball became my main interest for the 2011-12 season, and I lost interest with baseball. I just started paying attention again a little, but I really hate how the game has changed (pitchers throwing so few innings, every hitter has turned into Adam Dunn, horrendous rule changes by new commissioner), so I'm only following stats.

[John8204]

For me the eye test
1. Larry Bird
2. Seth Curry
3. Reggie Miller
4. Chris Mullin
5. Robert Horry

[Baller789]

That's cool.
But OT.

[GimmeThat]

Someone like Dirk. Guy was 7'0. Was a high level shooter but certainly was helped by his height to generate easier shots, whether it's 3s or midrange.

Versus a guy like Kobe. Not short by any means but clearly made plenty of tougher shots than Dirk. But perhaps with lower overall efficiency.

Versus a guy like Korver. Very high machine-like efficiency but mostly at catch and shoot 3s and rely on teammates to get him open looks.



Which of these three types would you call the best shooter?

is it the shooter's responsibility to diminish the opposing players opportunity in securing a defensive rebound?