"The most efficient ball-handler on filled-corners pick and rolls is LeBron James."

[Im Still Ballin]

No surprise: LeBron + shooters = winning.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-nba-teams-are-using-a-pick-and-role-hack-sticking-two-guys-in-the-corners/

The most efficient ball-handler on filled-corners pick and rolls is LeBron James, scoring 1.192 points per chance.

Even though his most frequent pick-and-roll partner in such setups is Anthony Davis, the Lakers are more efficient when James runs filled-corners pick and rolls with Dwight Howard or DeAndre Jordan, which means the Lakers don’t need both stars to find efficient offense.

James eviscerates switches -- made threes are the most common outcome in those circumstances.

[Im Still Ballin]

How to fix the Lakers: acquire Myles Turner.

Diagnosis brief notes:

- Improves overall team defense by solidifying interior defense.
- More defensive stops lead to more efficient offensive possessions -- transition/semi-transition/early offense.
- Improves half-court offense by adding another 3pt shooter on the court without giving up defense.

Likelihood of acquiring Myles Turner: low.

[Micku]

It's like this on every team he has been on I think.

Even with Miami with Wade either in 2011 or 2012-2013 when he wasn't hurt, the most effective offense was when Wade was on the bench and surround LeBron with shooters. They even ran an offense in 12 and 13 with the a bunch of horns set. Of course, it's different in the playoffs, that's when you might need another all-star or superstar that could give you buckets when the system isn't going well. But in general, he doesn't really fit with stars that need the ball as much as 3nD guys.

Mike D'Antoni would've done amazing things with LeBron. It fits his style.

[3ba11]

It's like this on every team he has been on I think.

Even with Miami with Wade either in 2011 or 2012-2013 when he wasn't hurt, the most effective offense was when Wade was on the bench and surround LeBron with shooters. They even ran an offense in 12 and 13 with the a bunch of horns set. Of course, it's different in the playoffs, that's when you might need another all-star or superstar that could give you buckets when the system isn't going well. But in general, he doesn't really fit with stars that need the ball as much as 3nD guys.

Mike D'Antoni would've done amazing things with LeBron. It fits his style.


What skills are lacking from Lebron that prevented a good fit with Wade?

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

James harden does it just as good and can shoot better. He just wasn't in the finals because he had to face curry warriors in 2015 and not weak East like LeBron

[GrayGoat]

What skills are lacking from Lebron that prevented a good fit with Wade?

Wade deteriorated rapidly. LeBron made it a perfect fit

[GrayGoat]

James harden does it just as good and can shoot better. He just wasn't in the finals because he had to face curry warriors in 2015 and not weak East like LeBron
Harden has 0 titles

[Micku]

What skills are lacking from Lebron that prevented a good fit with Wade?

Hahaha! I'll bite cuz I think it's interesting of the play styles.

Lebron lacked off the ball movement. Big reason why. But so did Wade. He was a little better at it than LeBron, but it was mostly that. He also didn't/couldn't play in the post in the first year. Neither Wade and Lebron were great shooters, but they picked their spots very well. LeBron didn't trust in his shot during the POs at times, and Wade constantly got hurt during the POs. They just took turns isoing instead of playing off each other.

LeBron got better at it. Started to make more cuts, started to get into position and setting more screens although Bosh did the screen stuff more. Wade did a lot more off the ball stuff. You have to give credit to Spo for having a better offensive system. But he'll let them do whatever they want to do if they got a defensive stop.

But how they play nowadays with the constant switching and small ball line up, even though they were heading to that direction in 2011, they would have a easier time going iso due to mismatch they'll get.

Regardless, they made it work. They adjusted big time. They were too talented and smart. They could've been better tho if Wade were to stay healthy.

[FultzNationRISE]

Breaking News:

WATER.

IS.

WET :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

:hammertime:

[Micku]

James harden does it just as good and can shoot better. He just wasn't in the finals because he had to face curry warriors in 2015 and not weak East like LeBron

I think he relies on his foul baiting tacts in the POs like he does in the RS and they don't call it. Plus his shooting skills tend to drop in the POs, as well his numbers all around.

LeBron is more unstoppable when he gets ahead of steam and he is a better finisher at the rim than Harden is. It translate better in the POs. I think LBJ is a smarter player in that regard, in that he picks his spots better.


But y'know what's funny? At least in 2012, OKC ran a bunch of isos. Probably more isos than the Miami Heat in 2011. They didn't really play Spurs, Miami 13, Clippers, or GSW (15-19) team ball, yet they were still deadly. You gott'a give KD credit tho. He played a bunch of isos too, but he could at least move without the ball and do a bunch of catch and shoot. He knew how to get to the FT line better back then with his rip move. Lots of players do that, but his is more deadly due to his long arms. Imo, the old OKC team were a team that just got by due to talent and I felt that their defense was solid.

[Im Still Ballin]

Hahaha! I'll bite cuz I think it's interesting of the play styles.

Lebron lacked off the ball movement. Big reason why. But so did Wade. He was a little better at it than LeBron, but it was mostly that. He also didn't/couldn't play in the post in the first year. Neither Wade and Lebron were great shooters, but they picked their spots very well. LeBron didn't trust in his shot during the POs at times, and Wade constantly got hurt during the POs. They just took turns isoing instead of playing off each other.

LeBron got better at it. Started to make more cuts, started to get into position and setting more screens although Bosh did the screen stuff more. Wade did a lot more off the ball stuff. You have to give credit to Spo for having a better offensive system. But he'll let them do whatever they want to do if they got a defensive stop.

But how they play nowadays with the constant switching and small ball line up, even though they were heading to that direction in 2011, they would have a easier time going iso due to mismatch they'll get.

Regardless, they made it work. They adjusted big time. They were too talented and smart. They could've been better tho if Wade were to stay healthy.

Early on the success of those squads was that rampant defense, especially the perimeter defense. It made them a forced-turnover machine, leading to perhaps the greatest fastbreak since Showtime. Chicago this season is actually doing similar things with Lonzo and Caruso; not nearly as good though.

That half-court offense struggled until they made the small-ball switch in 2012.

When it all came together it was a beautiful thing. The back half of 2013 when they were on the winning streak + the first two thirds of the 2013-2014 season.

Definitely a flawed team; they were 1 of only 4 championship teams to be outrebounded on average. They were the only team of those 4 to rank dead last in rebounding.

What they really needed was a Myles Turner-type. Bosh just couldn't protect the rim and rebound like a center should.

All in all, they were definitely ahead of the curve. It very much felt like that back then. Not enough people give praise to Miami for making positionless basketball popular.

At the time, traditional-style lineups with dual 7ft bigs (Pau-Bynum; KG-Perk; Dirk-Chandler) were winning things. Phoenix and Don Nelson's Dallas/GSW teams did things but weren't winning championships.

[Baller789]

San Antonio knew how to counter that high intensity pressure Miami D with superior ball movement though.

They made Lebron and Co. look like headless chickens at times.

[Im Still Ballin]

San Antonio knew how to counter that high intensity pressure Miami D with superior ball movement though.

They made Lebron and Co. look like headless chickens at times.

The ledger stands at 1-1.

[3ba11]

Hahaha! I'll bite cuz I think it's interesting of the play styles.

Lebron lacked off the ball movement. Big reason why. But so did Wade. He was a little better at it than LeBron, but it was mostly that. He also didn't/couldn't play in the post in the first year. Neither Wade and Lebron were great shooters, but they picked their spots very well. LeBron didn't trust in his shot during the POs at times, and Wade constantly got hurt during the POs. They just took turns isoing instead of playing off each other.

LeBron got better at it. Started to make more cuts, started to get into position and setting more screens although Bosh did the screen stuff more. Wade did a lot more off the ball stuff. You have to give credit to Spo for having a better offensive system. But he'll let them do whatever they want to do if they got a defensive stop.

But how they play nowadays with the constant switching and small ball line up, even though they were heading to that direction in 2011, they would have a easier time going iso due to mismatch they'll get.

Regardless, they made it work. They adjusted big time. They were too talented and smart. They could've been better tho if Wade were to stay healthy.





Guys with elite jumpshootings skill can still dominate when banged up, whereas the athletic-reliant Wade played poorly without his athleticism..

So you pointed out the hole in their game - lack of elite jumpshooting skill - they don't have the skill to rely on catch-and-shoots, which is confirmed by their unwillingness to run off screens (play off-ball).. Their overall lower jumpshooting volume reduced the team's capacity for ball movement and team assists.

Infact, the Spurs specifically exploited Lebron/Wade's unwillingness to spot-up by forcing them to do so - defenders came off Wade to help when Lebron drove and vice versa, so they were the open man for spot-ups (their weakness).. SB Nation explains this with tons of video in their legendary article here (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6).. In addition to a poor strategy/fit with Wade, Lebron's skillset reduced Bosh to role players status, and far below the star role that guys like Klay, Manu or Worthy enjoyed.

[Micku]

Early on the success of those squads was that rampant defense, especially the perimeter defense. It made them a forced-turnover machine, leading to perhaps the greatest fastbreak since Showtime. Chicago this season is actually doing similar things with Lonzo and Caruso; not nearly as good though.

That half-court offense struggled until they made the small-ball switch in 2012.

When it all came together it was a beautiful thing. The back half of 2013 when they were on the winning streak + the first two thirds of the 2013-2014 season.

Definitely a flawed team; they were 1 of only 4 championship teams to be outrebounded on average. They were the only team of those 4 to rank dead last in rebounding.

What they really needed was a Myles Turner-type. Bosh just couldn't protect the rim and rebound like a center should.

All in all, they were definitely ahead of the curve. It very much felt like that back then. Not enough people give praise to Miami for making positionless basketball popular.

At the time, traditional-style lineups with dual 7ft bigs (Pau-Bynum; KG-Perk; Dirk-Chandler) were winning things. Phoenix and Don Nelson's Dallas/GSW teams did things but weren't winning championships.

Yeah.

They put in more effort and attention to defense than their offense at the start. And it definitely showed. They didn't know what they wanted to do with the half court sets, which lead to a bunch of a bunch of isos.

But they got into a big time grove when Bird man went to the team and Wade was healthy during that streak.

They were ahead of the curve when it came to small ball. But the Suns were doing something similar in the mid 00s, but they never got over the hump. And the Heat small ball costed them a lot of headaches with the Pacers and as you said, almost lost the Spurs in 13. But that was more than just small ball. Wade was hurt, LeBron shooting was shot, and the Spurs dared him to shoot.

Like a Myles Turner type would help, but they needed a dude that could contend for the rebounds and solid defensive player to protect the middle but could shoot, to get out of Lebron and Wade's way. Reggie Evans could rebound like crazy back then, but he was useless on the offense. But he would help during stretches. There are different players that could fit that role throughout nba history that could fit that role, but rare at that exact time.

With Bosh tho, he played the pick and roll game very well on defense. He was pretty underrated. And the Heat in general was so fast with help defense. In turn tho, they were too aggressive with their help defense. Which as other poster said, the Spurs sometimes took advantage of with their ball movement. But they were still great. Their rebounding was big problem tho.

[Baller789]

The ledger stands at 1-1.

That's why I said, at times.

And we all know why the ledger stands at 1-1. *Wink2*

One of those teams barely beat the other in 7.

The other time the other team basically stomped a mudhole through the other and walked it dry.

[Im Still Ballin]

That's why I said, at times.

And we all know why the ledger stands at 1-1. *Wink2*

One of those teams barely beat the other in 7.

The other time the other team basically stomped a mudhole through the other and walked it dry.

2014 was a broken AC cramp away from being 0-2 with MIA heading back home.

[Micku]

Guys with elite jumpshootings skill can still dominate when banged up, whereas the athletic-reliant Wade played poorly without his athleticism..

So you pointed out the hole in their game - lack of elite jumpshooting skill - they don't have the skill to rely on catch-and-shoots, which is confirmed by their unwillingness to run off screens (play off-ball).. Their overall lower jumpshooting volume reduced the team's capacity for ball movement and team assists.

Infact, the Spurs specifically exploited Lebron/Wade's unwillingness to spot-up by forcing them to do so - defenders came off Wade to help when Lebron drove and vice versa, so they were the open man for spot-ups (their weakness).. SB Nation explains this with tons of video in their legendary article here (https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6).. In addition to a poor strategy/fit with Wade, Lebron's skillset reduced Bosh to role players status, and far below the star role that guys like Klay, Manu or Worthy enjoyed.

Yeah, they weren't great shooters.

It's a shame cuz Lebron had a great year shooting the ball that year in the RS. But he didn't trust it in the POs. In the RS, he played within the flow of the game, and he is much more of a streaky rhythm shooter.

And the Spurs definitely exploited them for it. But with LeBron's skillset reducing Bosh to role player or whatever, it's sometimes necessary to sacrifice due for the team to succeed to fit whatever offense/defense that is the most effective. Wade had to do that too, but in part of his health as well. His knees weren't as good. Like the thread indicates, Miami had their most efficient offense with Wade and Bosh on the bench and LeBron leading the role players. He could generate offense at a historic rate efficient wise if he is surrounded by 3pt shooters. We seen this plenty of times. But Bosh was really vital to Miami success due to the threat of his shooting, the spacing he provides, and the way he played defense with the picks.

But during that streak, Miami has never been in sync like that before or since. Wade healthy. Birdman. Bosh. Lebron playing amazing. That was the Heat at their peak.

If Wade was healthy, then the POs would've been a lot easier for the Heat in 12-13.

[ELITEpower23]

No surprise: LeBron + shooters = winning.

Hello?

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FU**ING

ONE??